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ITB: Going Inside Eagles WR Group In Post-A.J. Brown ERA · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Inside the Birds is back. What's going on everybody is
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Jeff Mosher and Adam Kaplan. As we promised after the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: second Ota, we were going to look back, not on
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the aj Brown trade, but really what we're gonna do
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: is look forward. We want to give everybody we want
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to go inside what this wide receiver situation is going
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to look like. And there might be some misconceptions. I've
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: already seen things from people reaching out to us about
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: how look or numbers and stats. I even wrote something
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: on Philly Voice on what a typical West Coast offense
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: looks like in terms of dividing the ball up a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: little bit. But let's start right away with DeVante Smith Adam,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: because you hear him talk and he's sort of been
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: waiting for the moment where he can be wide receiver one.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: And I do feel like people are now thinking that
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: he just steps into role where he becomes this gigantic
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: target monster and maybe has fourteen fifteen hundred yards and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: twelve hundred and twelve touchdowns or something like that. But
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: this offense, if it works correctly, he shouldn't have to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: be that kind of guy. I would almost say, Adam,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: if he is that kind of guy. It's not necessarily
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: a sign of the offense being great. If everything's being
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: funneled to Devonte Smith, what are you saying.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, let's put it this away. Smith will
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: dominate targets for this team. It won't like it's gonna
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: be Smith and everybody else, but it's gonna be a
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: wide receiver group I committees is my thought. Smith is
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: just Smith. Like the thing that Smithy does better than
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: aj or two things that are very clear, better route runner,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: better hands. That means a lot. Sure, you can line
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: him up pretty much anywhere and he wins. We pointed
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: out inside the tape with Greg co Cell. Greg Greg
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: was it's just blown away by his ability to separate
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: in a short area. The only thing he lacks is
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: what he can't do he does. He can't physically dominate
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: like AJ can. Right, he just did. That's why the
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Patriots won him, other than they knew him and they
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: know what he's capable of doing. But Davante has this
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: ability to line up anywhere and he wins. He's he's
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: what It's kind of one of these things. He's been
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: so good from the very start, kind of like Quinnon Mitchell.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: We don't talk about him enough, but we're sure's all
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: going to talk about him more now because A J.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Brown's gone, right, So yeah, to finish this part of
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: the show, it's going to be Smith. In terms of
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: past targets. It's going to be over one hundred. It
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: has to be because Brown's out there. They don't They
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: have no one else who could dominate targets other than Smith.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Right then the question will be who will be the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: number two pass target if it all goes well. Makay
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Lemon has a hamstering injury, and it's not good that
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: he's missing practices, but he's going to be a starter.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: He's going to be their true slot receiver. As you
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and I have talked about. He's a true slot. That's
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the way we were told. Teams saw him. They didn't
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: see him anything else, or then he could be a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: move the Z receiver position, which is by the way
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: in the West Coast offense, but in Sirianni's offense, he
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: looks at Adam More's outside and inside receivers rather than Okay,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: this is the inside receiver, this is the Z outside receiver,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and the X receiver like like other schemes, do you
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: remember Nick was not brought up in the West Coast system, correct, Like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: people need to understand that the system we were told
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: he wanted to bring in was a timing offense. M
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: h was a combo of Chan Gaily and other influences
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in his career. Whereas this is a pure West Coast offense.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: The terminology is going to be different. They're going to
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: bring in some of the plays that Jalen likes. It's
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: it was called a different thing in the West Coast scheme,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: so they have to get on the same page with Jalen.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: But overall, the philosophy is going to change about the
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: timing and the rhythm of the offense. And the good
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: thing about Smitty is he can play in that, no
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: question about it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the thing. The thing about Smitty, as
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, is that he can win from any spot
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: on the field. But for alignment purposes, he is not
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: going to move into the AJ Brown X spot like
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: in the old offense and play outside and to your point,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: only run the three main routes that AJ Brown would
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: want run, which would be like deep fly, deep dig
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: or comeback hitch. I mean AJ Brown made a living
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: off of that. That's the way the offense was, I'm
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: not bang it a little bit. Yeah, every once in
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: a while they get him on enough really not enough, right,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I mean really he is restricted to like those three
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: routes and the same thing with Alston Jeffrey when in
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Doug Peterson's offense, he really ran those two to three
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: routes and he ran them well and he did, you know,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: what he needed to do. Smithy is still a guy
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: that because of his size, you don't want to have
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: him getting pressed constantly. He can be pressed because he
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: can get away from it, but you don't want him
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: all the time getting that kind of contact. And he's
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: good when you put him in the Z spot or
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in the slot and you can mix and match and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you can kind of line them up with some space
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to have him win on an outbreaker inbreaker, and then
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: every once in a while he'll pull out the dagger
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: or the deep spot because he has a choice route
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and he can just go. If he doesn't break left
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: inner out, he just bam right up the field and
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: it's great. So he can win in so many different ways.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: He's a technicians. He will command a lot of targets,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but his usage as far as alignment I think is
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: going to remain the same, and that's why I thought
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: it was a really important addition for that Howie Roseman
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: side to bring in a Dontavian Wicks who can play
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that X, who can give you that size. You know,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: he's not aj Brown, but you know, sometimes when you're
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: not in your reduced splits and your bunch formations, when
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: you're in your you know, one by threes or two
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: by twos, you need an X who can get down
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the field and get off that press coverage, who has
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: some body and strength to him. And that's where Wicks
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I think plays a role in this offense.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: He does. And look, they guaranteed, you know, a decent
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: amount of money because they he knows the West Coast
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: system manning one of them. The Egles have voice alike him.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: But it's because Manion's here. Let's let's call it like
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: it is. It's why samri toos here because of Manion.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: He's a long shot to make the team. Will get
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: into but later we have some we have some interesting
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: information on tore But when you look at the situation,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: they've got the ability because they have enough receivers they
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: could still run this. They could run a lot of
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: twelve personnel. They could run a lot of eleven because
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: they have enough receivers, but they don't have that guy
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: who could command a double team like AJ Brown could do,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: because A J. Brown is just this rare breed. He's
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: not six foot two. He's actually six feet and three
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: quarters of an inch. He's not tall, but he's built
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: like the incredible Hulk. You and I've seen him in practice.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: It's something to behold, right, So it's just gonna be different.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: It's gonna look different without a J. Brown. You don't
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: have that. Wix is big, but he hasn't run like
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: AJ Right now, again, there are gonna be There're gonna
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: be a lot of They have a lot of outside receivers,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: they have some inside receivers. Then they've got slot receivers,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: which for the first time years they actually have a
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: true slot in Lemon who should absolutely dominate inside. And
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: on your point about when they were play reduced splits,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: so the way the Rams do it, and this is
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: what you know. I've talking the Rams over the years
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: about how they saw it. When Pooka came in and
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: h Cooper Cup, they kind of knew kind of it's ironic,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: but it's a different team. It's kind of like when
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: when Jordan Matthews was drafted by the Eagles, Chip Kelly,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to his credit, knew that there was no way he
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: could win on the outside. He moved them out inside
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: and he dominated, absolutely dominated. He suffered a couple of injuries,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and then they moved him to Buffalo. Well, the Rams
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: had the same thought process when they drafted Cup. They're like,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: he's very talented, runs after the catch, but he will
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: not win on the outside, so reduce them. And I
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: remember talking to Johnd Flipp about this. I asked Flip
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: about reduced splits and plus splitz. He said, he goes,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: it is so much harder to cover a guy when
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: he's playing inside in confined space. If you've got good hands,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you're gonna win, right. Well, look at Puk, who's a
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: giant inside receiver. Yes, he could technically play outside, but
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: they knew he's not gonna win his appeer outside receiver. Well,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: moving over to here with Makayle Lemon. Kyle Lemon is
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: super strong, terrific hands, great right runner, tough as hell
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: if you line up on the outside because he doesn't
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: run all that. Well, first of all, he's going to
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: be negated. You can't. He's not a first round pick
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: if you want to be an outside receiver. So he's
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: going to play inside here, that's going to happen. And
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: he's a true slot who if you've got the right
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: guy on the outside, you you could reduce like you
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: could play. You could play him like the Rams do
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit where he's not. He's if pffs grading
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and he might be lined up technically they check off
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the inside, but he's here's inside. He's an inside but
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: down here a little bit right. So there are different
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: ways to skin a cat, as they say, yep, And
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: and we'll see what Mannion's because he's never been a
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: he's never run an offense for we don't have access
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: to him, but we have access to coach who's been
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: in the West Coast offense. That's how it works. You
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you figure out by your personnel groupings what the guy
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: does well. And he does and Lemon is a pure
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: inside receiver who will dominate inside. There'll be some games.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: By the way, if he knows what he's doing, you go, wow,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you had twelve targets today. Well, you know why because
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: they thought he could dominate that slock corner. That's right,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: defend excuse me, yep, yep.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: He could be a high volume slock guy certainly on days.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I think that I'll be able to do right to
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: see how defenses adjust now to this new look Eagles offense.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Because in the past, if a defense wanted to play
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: one safety high and bring another down, you know, or
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: or blitz a little bit, that safety was gonna slide
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to aj Brown side. Okay, unless they had like an
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: elite corner, like if you're playing the Broncos, they'll just
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: leave certain and then slide the safety other. But most
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: times now the safety's gonna steer down the Eagles defense
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: and slide over to the DeVante Smith side, especially if
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: he's still on the Z and you got Lemon inside
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: X right, the safety's gonna see the first round picks
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: on that side, slide there and probably leave Wicks. Let's
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: say they're in eleven personnel to win one on one.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: So this is a really big year for don ta
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Avian Wicks. He's here, they traded for him, they gave
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: him an extension. He's gonna get some opportunities and eleven
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: personnel especially he might even get some in twelve just
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: because of his size. Yeah, he probably will, so I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: imagine he'll see a decent amount of one on ones
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And if he's consistent like he like people have wanted
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: him to be, and featured a little bit more, then
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you might see him really kind of have an up
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: to do. I think he'll be second on the team
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: in targets. No, no, do I think the gap between
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: whoever's second and whatever what he has doesn't have to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: be big. I do think that I think he can
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: be a bigger part of the offense here than he
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: was in Philadelphia for that reason alone, because Smith and
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Lemon are going to command a lot of assension and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: then that safety's gonna slide the other way.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: It's part of because other than other Johnny Wilson will
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: only come in from blocking purposes. If you really look
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: at their past target group, Hollywood, Brown is small. Lemon
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: in terms of height as as small, but he's you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: he's built well. Smitty obviously is thin. He's not he's
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: not big, So they're gonna need wicks and in fact,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: they're depending on the matchups of the week with the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: way they'll do it is what's this. Uh, snap count
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: may go up depending on who they're going up against.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: You know, it just depends on the size and the
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: physical nature of the corners. This could be a very
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: situational offense, by the way. It just depends on Manning
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: has a thought presses going in. But you have to
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: just accordingly how it's going and how you guys are
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: taking this. This is remember now the guys who were
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: returning have not played in this offense before. Mm hmkay.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Now Wicks has Samrii Terret who's now with his fifth team.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: He's here because he only knows the offense. The only
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: reason why he's here. Mm hmm. And look it's he's
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: a major long shot, but he's a possession running for
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the catch. Guy who who was a late round pick
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: four years ago coming out of Nebraska. He was a
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: seventh rounder for the for the for the Packers. He
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: got hurt. He just never really worked out. He kept
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: moving on. He went to other teams that run the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: West Coast offense and he just never worked out. But
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: he's here. And the thing is, though he brings some
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: competition is I'll tell you what it really helps you
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: when you know an offense or a Deen, whatever side
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: of the ball you're coming up from, when the coaches
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: know you or the guy who's running the side of
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the ball you're on, it really helps you. At least
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: it helps you get to training camp. He should be
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: able to get to training camp. Always a long shot
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to make the team and makes your practice squad better
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: and that you know, that's that's what it looks like.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So and we're going to get to to finish the
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: second half off and we'll get into the group and
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: where guys are going to line up as we understand it.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: But the good thing is you've got some guys who
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: can run. You got a couple guys out of size.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: He don't have a lot of them. But the thing is,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: can Manion? This is the challenge for him? Can he
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: take this group? You know we'll do tight ends another show,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: but with god or who could still run, who is
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: phenomenal in the red zone. If you take the whole
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: group together, it's deep enough. Can you structure enough to
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: get these guys open right and for them to play
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: within the structure. It's a lot from Mania. This is
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: a big deal here, and you know the pressure is
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: going to be on him because they expect nothing but
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: winning here, and there's gonna be pressure on Trim Manion,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: no doubt for sure.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And you know it's not I know people have said
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: this is not the same offense without a J. Brown,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and that's fair. But as we have discussed on this
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: show and other podcasts, this is a deeper and more
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: optional oriented set of wide receivers and they've had in
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: a long time. We haven't even really discussed yet, which
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: we will on a second, what kind of role we
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: should expect for Hollywood Brown, who's a first round pick
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and who's had thousand yards. He's as good as any
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Eagles number three receiver that they've had in a decade,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and he might be the fur receiver depends on any
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: given day.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Well he will. I mean he should be. He should be.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I mean I think there's certain packages at him if
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: they want to stretch the field where he might or
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: be like in that top three rotation.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, he's uh. But they look, they they
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: knew Brown wasn't coming back when they signed him A J. Brown.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: That is, they knew that was that eventually he'd be traded.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: So they knew when they guaranteed five million to Brown,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: like he's gonna have a role. He's he's going to
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: be their shot play guys. So let let's break this down.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. Their pure outside receivers will be Wicks. We're
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: talking to guys. Yes, you could line up in certain formations.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: The guys, you could line them up inside. Theoretically, anyone
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: could line him side. But but guys who really will
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: do damage on the outside, what their true position is.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: It's Wicks. M We didn't talk about Darius Cooger could
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: play inside or outside, but it's Wicks. Hollywood Brown the
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: guy the movable outside receivers, guy Z position.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you're about to throw Smith in there,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and I think with them there, he's probably gonna be
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: more of outside.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: He is a slot. We're gonna we're gonna get to that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: We're gonna get to that. The X receivers, the guys who
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: could play X. Okay, Yeah, the guys are more outside
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: are Wix. Brown has played the exposition. Cooper can do it,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Johnny Well, he counts on that position. Samori Toy can
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: do it. They have enough guys. Yeah, the Z position
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: guys are as I understand it. Smitty Brown can do it.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: He's done it. He's probably better at the at the
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: X because he can run by guys. But Smitty Brown,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Cooper Wicks has done it. He's better at the X,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: but he can do it. Elijah Moore can do it.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: He's done it. Oh yeah, Lemon, he will wind up
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: doing it, but not very much because he again he's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a slot receiver. Yep. So they have plenty of guys
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: there now the guy that This is where it gets
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: interesting because in the history of our nine years, we've
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: rarely talked about the slot receiver because they really haven't
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: had anybody who can do it, so we haven't it
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: despite the importance of it. They really haven't had anybody.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Well now they're sure as hell have So here are
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: your slot receivers. Mkayle Lemon will be their number one slot. Smitty,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: he's done it. He can do it. His numbers inside
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: are good. He can play the possession role. He could
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: play pretty much any role you want him to. Lemon, Smitty,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Elijah More. Yes, he got off to a phenomenal start
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: with the Jets. He's been downhill ever since. He can
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: do it. Cooper can do it, as I was told,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: but he's more of a Z and he's also body.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I feel like that he played the slot
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: when he got on the field for the Eagles in
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: limited doses, right, but that was really when they were
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: doing either tush bushes or running the ball on sure
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: yard because he's still he remember, he was using him
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: as like kind of applot. He was the Johnny Wilson role.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, oh, and let's stop. We
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: don't want to forget because he's on the team. He
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: could technically do it. Is Britain Covey is a slot receiver?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that's about it.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, I know.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: And then there's any Gray, Yeah.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: There's any grade smart tore It will probably play the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: backup backs and play a little bit of the zeh.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: As you said, Quas Watkins is there. Technically, they have
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: enough guys for each position, both outside the slot position.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: They've got enough guys. Now, the quality is the issue.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: You take a J. Brown. That's the thing people want
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to well, what have they missed? They're missing quality? Right,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: they don't have that guy who could draw double teams,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: who could physically dominate. We could argue from the tape
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: last year the effort wasn't always quite as good as
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: you should have been. That's tape based. That's not an opinion.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: That's tape based. We give we give our information for
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: people are new. We don't give a lot of opinions.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Pet Look, twenty percent of the show. You can't everything
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: is not going to be intel based. You can't be
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: a word. You know. People don't seem to understand that sometimes.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, man like, they've got enough here
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: to win. At some point, man is gonna have to
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: prove himself. Okay, yeah, I have Aja Brown. Okay, that's
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: not his fault. That's another story for another time. But hey,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: if you're really worth your weight in gold, you're smart
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: as everybody says you are, you got to get the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: job done.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Sure, for sure. I mean there's gonna be expectations, there's
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: no uh what's it called learning curve growing year. He's
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: got to settle in because if this thing goes like
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: south and anything, if the team does really really poorly,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: then you know what's gonna happen in the offseason. Everything
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: gets blown up. That's what that's what happens. We know this.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It doesn't help Sean mannon that a guy like Kellen Moore,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: who had like basically the same background two years of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: NFL coaching after retiring from football, and then had the
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: number one offense in his first year as the coordinator
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: with the Cowboys, and then I think he did it
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: again two years later. But so it's been done, it
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: can be done, and Sean Mannon certainly has the tools
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to make it work. Let's I want to talk about
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: an X factor real quick, but first I want to
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: remind everyone if you're thinking about hitting any away games
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• 20:23
  Speaker 1: one and up. So like this is more about this
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: podcast is more about just going inside where guys will
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: line up, what kind of production they'll have, but it
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: is also about packages and who's gonna play in a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: little bit of playing time, and Darius Cooper becomes to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: me a very interesting X factor for two reasons. One,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, despite how he was used last year,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: he has the body of an X receiver, so there's
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: there's opportunities there for him. And two, I would say
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: in my twenty in two thousand and five, to my.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Own real quick though. I don't know that Cooper could
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: hear things? Could he line up X? I don't know
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: that he could win.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: And he win there? That That's what I was about.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Run well enough, he's put on I know he's put
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a mass on his frame, but I just don't know.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Like that's the thing about playing a period purely that
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: position that's a single side receiver. You gotta win.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta win the one on one, but you
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: only you only really have to be one.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: And I understand, but can he be? Can he win
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: like that? That's what the Rams did. They knew that,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: like the Rams have. Guy's name is Eric Yarberry's probably
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: top free receivers coach. Most people don't know about unless
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: you're in the coach of profession. He's known as elite,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: like he got these guys like he's been there forever.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: His guy's Greg Olsen, the longtime receivers coach, I mean,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: his quarterbacks coach and OC like those guys work together
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: a long time and they kind of knew what they
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: were working with and Sod obviously McVeigh he's it's his scheme.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You kind of got to know what a guy could
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: win with because you don't have time to say, Okay,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: well it didn't work. This is what training campus for.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: This is what the off season program is for. Right man,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: he's gonna learn. But you know, I don't know.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: That's where That's where I was saying in my twenty
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: one to twenty two years covering the Eagles, he would
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Darius Cooper would have to be top five as far
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: as performances as an undrafted free agent at training camp.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: And what I well, I remember talking to you and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: you observed it too, and we did pods about it
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is even without ble blisterings. But he just knew. He
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: had a very veteran sense on how to win, how
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to get inside a corner's hip, break at the right time,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: make the right cut, read the defense. Well, I remember
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: he was a former quarterback and maybe something that had
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: to do with it. You know, Greg Ward was like that.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: But I think this kid was even better than Greg
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Ward in terms of once they promoted what he remember,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: he started getting first team reps because Smithy was out
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and aj Brown like he never practiced, never practiced, So
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: he was winning consistently. And again that's just training camp.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: But they did put him on the field as a
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: as a rookie, he got hurt, and then when he
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: came back they did it again limited. But my point
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: is if in year two he builds off of that
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and shows he can do those things, the hierarchy just
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: becomes a little more interesting because if you're gonna want
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to get him on the field, the question would be
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: at the expense of who, and does that mean somebody
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: else like Wis for example, isn't giving them what they
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: wanted that stuff for down the road. But that's why
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I call him a very interesting X factor.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: M hmm. And then they've got the speed package I'm
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: calling it with Hollywood Brown, with Smitty who could could
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: still really really run. I'm not sorry. I'm not putting
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Quest Watkins on there. Grey. Yeah he can't. He can run.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: He could flat out fly. But guys who we know
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: are going to be on the football team, Smittye and Brown.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I know it's a little bit smaller than you'd like,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: but they could. It's okay by scheme. If you scheme it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: If you get these guys open, you get them open stours.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: It's a way to get stours. You could play the exposition,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and that's in that front. I mean in that formation
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and that personnel grouping, there's things you can do. And
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: if Calcultary makes the team, I know people, you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: people have their opinions on Grant. Don't ask him to block,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: let him run. Here's a slot, tight end. That's the thing.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: They've got enough guys. Yeah, quality you could question, but
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: it's not a question of having enough people. That's not
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the issue. It's the quality. We'll see, that's right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: So I did this study on the forty nine ers
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: a couple years ago when they went to the Super
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Bowl at them, right and h not that I am
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: comparing the egos to them at all, but just on
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: how they maneuvered the targets and how that the yards.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: You know, Brandon, that was the year Brandon Ayuk was
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: really amazing. You had one hundred and five targets. But
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: if you look at one hundred and five, which is
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: because they were so talented, like Smith, one hundred and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: fifty to be honest with you, but they had a Yuk, McCaffrey, Kittle,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: and Debo Right, So I you cut seventy five catches,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: McCaffrey at sixty seven, Kittle had sixty five, Deebo sixty.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: You see how balanced that was. I you cut seven touchdowns.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: McCaffrey had seven receiving touchdowns, Kittle had six and Debo
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: had seven, so you can kiddle both were one thousand yards.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: McCaffrey was five to sixty, Debo eight ninety two. And
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: it was such a beautiful rhythm. That was like the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: essence of a Kyle Shanahan spread out offense, where you're
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: using your run game, you're using your downhill under center
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: play action to create space and you're getting multiple guys
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: open in space and be able to spread the ball around.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And rock Party wound up being really good for that
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: system at it. And so this is where hurts now
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and his receivers I don't want to say their top
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: four right now are as good as the Niners top four,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: but certainly with Smitty and if Mikayle Lemon lives up
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: to his expectations, and we know Dallas Goddard's good. In Barkley,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: remember I said McCaffrey was in there. If there's room
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: for Barkley, there is room for Barkley, I should say,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: if they can figure it out to get him the ball,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: you could have a really nice spread around offense where
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Smitty is still your target monster the way I was,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: but the catcher can be a little bit more diversified,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and that just makes it tough. R on defense is
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: to lock somebody down.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Now, one thing to understand Clint Kobiak, who's now the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Raiders head coach running his version of the Shanahan offense,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you got to understand they're just some times when as
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: we talked about the quality, it was JSN incredibly just
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: physically not just ridiculous. Well, they're just sometimes like you
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: got an agent Cooper Cup and nothing else. Well, chas
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: N's going to dominate targets one sixty three, right after
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: that it's Cup with seventy past targets and then of
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: all people, A J. Barner the tight end for Michigan, right.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Although she probably averaged more targets once he came over
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: than those guys per game, I would think, I don't know.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: What actually not, he only had twenty six targets and
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: how many games? Nine games? He's a shop play guy.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he is a shop That's why I think this
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Eagles offense has a little bit more, much more optionality.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's deeper. It's again I'm not saying it's great,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: but they have guys who can play. On your point
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: about Cooper, the guy could play like he's strong as hell, detailed.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: He's remember he's still relatively near the receiver position of
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Charleton State and went there as a quarterback, and then
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: he smartly accepted what the coaches told him. If you
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: want to make it, you got to change positions. Right.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: So I cannot wait to get to training camp we
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: see what we're talking about. We'll see kind of the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: people we've spoke to around the league. We see who've
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: looked at this and what they think it's going to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: look like. I talked this in West Coast offensive coaches,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: guys who've been in it. It's man it's so timing based.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: It's three step out in one point three like right,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Gelen's is like we could say, we could speak so
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: well about Manion, but if the quarterback doesn't get the
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: ball out of his hands quickly, it's it's over. Like
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: you can't you can't run this offense. What's funny is because,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: as we reported at the time in twenty one, when
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Syrianna came in, he wasn't running the West Coast, but
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: he wanted his offense is top more timing based, yep, sight.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Adjustments for that. We talked about that there were there
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: were supposed to be site adjustments built into the offense
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: instead of hot routes and things like that.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see. But it looks, it looks interesting,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: it sounds interesting. What we've been told and what we've
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: heard and what we see, what we know, But a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: lot of it is up to the quarterback. And you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I was stung our Patreon folks a couple of months ago.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm telling you, I just have this sneaky
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: suspicion Hurts is going to get it when you isolate
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: throws like coaches do and you go, wow, that's that
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: was a great throw right on time. You see, you
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: see stuff wasn't what A J. Brown wanted. He wanted
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: on time all the time. Okay, it didn't happen. But
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: he's capable of doing it, that's the thing. Will he
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: do it? That remains to be seen. But I'm I'm
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: probably more optimistic than people in the league are. I
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: don't for some reason, I just feel like it's now
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: or never.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say this, I man, I think we're optimist.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I am optimistic. He can adjust to it. Can you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: run it perfectly? It remains to be seen or even
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: like a level I think he can do better than
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: he's done, but it is going to require. You know,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes when we do inside the Tape with Greg Cosel
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: will point out four or five times a game where
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: that specific play that was drawn up was all about
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: planting the foot and throwing it now now now, And
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't do that. He'd make some other great, amazing
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: plays and amazing throws, but there were like four or
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: five a game where it's there. That's what the remember,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: especially the first two or three passes of the game,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to get them more. They're there and the ball wasn't there.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: That's where Manion and hurts and the new quarterbacks coach,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: not new, but new quarterbacks coach. Yeah, what's his name? Mills, right,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: fer Frasser, Parks Fraser Park Fraser, Yeah, Parks Fraser. All
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: have to really lock in because you're right, this offense
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: really is about making that kind of throw way more
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: repetitiously than we've seen in the past.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: All right, So just so you know this is this
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: is gonna give it thirty seconds or the Steve Young
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: story about when he put the blindfold on. Uh huh,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: you have to see it NFL. You could probably find
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: it on YouTube. So when Steve Young got to uh
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the Niners after the trade from the Bucks, he was
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: a wild child. You know, he was an athlete, he
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: said he didn't he didn't become elite until he bought
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: into the West Coast system. He didn't understand it right.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Once he did, he can do it blindfold. So you watch,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: there's tape out there. You might have to search Steve
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Young blindfold, West Coast whatever search terms. But I've seen
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: it before. It's ridiculous. He just had a bandana, I
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: think around his eyes. Three step drop and you watch
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Jerry Rice go like it's just it was like you
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: just can't believe it.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I would say it's what we consider VR now, is
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: what he was doing.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good, good one.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Right, So virtual.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Reality it's the coolest thing. It's like when you play
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: with it, you know it's one point three on a
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: three step drop. You know on five it's a one
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: to five or one seven. You know on a seven
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: step drop it's one seven to two point zero two seconds. Okay,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: it's in with with Montana or young. You know, it's
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: the you know the rhythm of the footwork, and that's
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: what Steve did. He goes. That's how advanced he became.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: He actually put a blindfold on and did it because
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: you could do his blindfold literally and he did pretty cool.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is an amazing way to practice. I wonder who.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I always wondered who gave him that idea or if
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: he thought of it himself, but it was.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Wish I know him. You know what if if we
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: ever run him to the super Bowl, if he ever
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: if he ever does radio row, I don't know, if
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: he ever has I'll I'll say, hey, Steve, do you
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: remember when you put a blindfold on in the mid
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: nineties you practice. I think NFL film filmed it. You know,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you know, Cosell might know. Greg might know. Next time
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: we talked to him. We'll see if he knows. Yeah,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: you know, I might know about that. So anyway, Yeah,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: great stuff.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: So that that is our in depth. Look at the
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Eagles wide receiver corps in the post A J. Brown Era.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Next week they will have two ohtas are or the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: mandatory mini camps I should say that are going to
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: be open to Manjory camp will be open to the media,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: so we'll have some good stuff from that, and the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: roller coaster will continue. That's gonna do it for this
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: episode of Inside the Birds, the leading podcasts and Eagles Intel,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and as always, we thank you for flying with us
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Inside the Birds. Be sure to check out our friends
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: at Phlsportsnation dot com. They're enhancing the fans experience with
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: their coverage of all Philadelphia sports teams. For the fan,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: by the fan is their motto, so make sure you
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: check them out at phlsportsnation dot com and on Twitter
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: at PHL sports Nation.