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SMNTY Classics: The Legendary Haenyeo · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff. Never told your production of iHeart Radio,
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: and today we are bringing back an episode. Then I
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: think about kind of often actually on the legendary Hanyo
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: are women in South Korea who have a lot of
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: respect older women, specifically for diving for sea creatures as food,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and I just thought it was a fascinating topic.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Interestingly, I was watching one of my new favorite YouTube
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: series not a sponsor, Dirt, and they went to Japan
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: and there is a version of Hanyo, a woman there
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: who teaches them how to dive to get all these
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: things as well, and she is just as gruff as
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: the Anios, the Korean divers. So it was really interesting.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: But also I discovered there's an actual restaurant named after
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: that in New York, which we might have to go
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: and check out.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: They got a Michelin shout out.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Are they named after specifically?
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, after the women who dive in jgu Island. Also, yeah,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: you and I talked about the fact that I just
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: recently watched it was last year When Life Gives You Tangerines,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: which is a Korean drama and it starts off as
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: the mother, one of the main mother characters, doing everything
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: she can for her daughter, including keeping her out of
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: that field because it's so dangerous.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, there's a lot.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: There is a lot, So we thought we would bring
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: this one back and please enjoy. Hey, this is Anny
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and Samantha. I'm welcome to Steffone. Never told your prediction
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Oh and this is gonna be a fun episode, I hope,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and a short one. But we in a very patriarchal world.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: We often see women at the bottom of the social hierarchy,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: economical too, all those things and left behind because it
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: is an assumption that women have their really just one place,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and that's oftentimes in the home, serving their husbands or
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: men in general. But when you look into the details,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: you find some wonderful treasures in the form of stories
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: or legends that talk about the way women and the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: marginalized community often help their community survive through the hard
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: times and even change the course of how we got
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: here today, and a lot of what we know about
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the past, we get to all of that and lovely
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: treasures and those little groves that are like, look at
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: that story. We need to talk about this more and today,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: we are floring one such story slash legend slash group
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: that still does exist specifically to South Korea. It's the
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: older group of women or mostly older group of women
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: known as the Haino, and the Haino or Sea Women,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: are largely again made up of older women from the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Jju Islands in South Korea, a big hot spot for
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: tourism if you're on any South Korean TikTok at all,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and these legendary women are seen as some of the
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: most respected people of the island. Being a part of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: their crew is seen as an honor today. Now, of course,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: they've been around for a while, so this level of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: honor came much later. So the Hanos are a community
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of women free divers who work and live on Jju Island,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and we're focusing on Jju Island, but there are other
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: places that the Hanos have popped up or have been.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: They just I guess haven't really talked about it, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: they weren't originated from there, so we will talk about
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: them a little bit later, but for the most part,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: that's where they're located. So here's some information from Kyotojournal
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: dot org. They dive as deep as ten meters below
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: the surface without the help of air tanks or modern
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: diving equipment, with little insulation from the cold South China
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Sea and then the A little more information from a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: recent Evogue article about the Hainos and recent meaning January
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. The Haino, who are part of South
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Korea's UNESCO Cultural Heritage Protection status, have been practicing muljiu,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the Korean word that refers to their diving activities since
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: at least the sixth century AD. According to records, muljiu
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: requires an intimate knowledge of the ocean and its physics,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: as well as superior physical fitness. Divers would often stay
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: underwater for up to three minutes without the help of
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: any modern diving equipment, a feat that tests their lung
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: capacity and ability to fill and withstand water pressure, as
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: well as estimate ocean depths.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it is within these ocean depths that they
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: are able to collect different foods and supplements for their
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: community and for their livelihoods. Here's some more information from
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Heytera Travel Journal. Hanyo our sea women have for centuries
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: been the primary divers in Korean culture. During the sixteen hundreds,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: as men were increasingly drawn away to war and conquest,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: women were left behind to provide for their families and communities.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Eventually they became known as Korea's first working moms. The
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: reversal of traditional gender roles made Haino an outlier in
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: the country's traditionally patriarchal society, and diving became exclusively female.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: The work these women do, I had read, is perilous,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: most of them over the age of sixty. They submerged
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: themselves into oftentimes freezing conditions for six hours a day,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: holding their breath for minutes at a time to plug abaloni, clam, seaweed,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: sea cucumber, sea urchin, and squid from the bottom of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: the strait. As the article states, the heyna are first
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: mentioned in the sixteen hundreds, when many speculate that men
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: were originally doing the diving as well, and they were
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: called into the army or had died, which left only
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: women to do the diving. It seemed that the ruler
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: at the time demanded a lot from the people, including
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: a tribute of delicious seafood such as abalone. There is
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: speculation that they also imposed a tax on men for
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: their earnings. Here's a bit from Oceanographic Magazine quote. The
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Heino or women of the Sea, are an icon of
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: South Korea, a unique culture found on the island of Jaiju.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: The women have been in charge of diving for seafood
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: to provide for their families since the seventeenth century, when
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: many of the men were either conscripted to the army
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: or had lost their lives at sea while fishing. Additionally,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: the Korean ruler at that time had imposed heavy taxes
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: on the earnings of men but exempted the labor of women.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: The folk of the island had no choice but to
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  Speaker 2: be how the main breadwinners of their families. This evolved
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: into a system where only girls were trained to perform
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: the dangerous free diving work of the Haino to harvest
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: items such as avalony, conch, seaweed, sea urchin, and octopus
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: from the ocean floor.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: So for many this new occupation was an empowering road
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and here's a quote from sidetrack dot Com. The Haino
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: culture sprung up during a time when oppressive legislation was
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: forced upon Korean women. Women should be limited to domestic
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  Speaker 1: work and the care of children. They had no access
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  Speaker 1: to education, no right to inheritance. They were discouraged from
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: walking in public spaces. When they did, their faces should
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: be hidden by a veil. Divorce procedures could only be
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: initiated by men. Husbands could abandon their wives should they
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: fail to bear a male child. Unshackled and free, the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Hano have stood as paragons for female empowerment, and like
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: most of the World War An oppression has been a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: factor with its continued decreasing of numbers of Hanos as
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: they are less and less them as the years go by.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So here's some more information from that sidetracked article. The
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Haino reached their peak at the end of the nineteen fifties.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: In nineteen forty five, the USA and USSR liberated Korea
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: from Japanese oppression, but began using the peninsula as a
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: pawn in the Cold War. The Korean people woke from
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: their colonial nightmare to find themselves politically divided by the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: thirty eighth Parallel to the north, communist interests led by
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Soviet Russia to the south, a territory aligned to capitalists America.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: The Korean War from nineteen fifteen to nineteen fifty three
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: consolidated the former occupied zones into two separate countries at
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the high cost of more than three million lives and
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the destruction of their basic infrastructure. Despite its relative isolation,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: JG was not spared from these hard times. Violence, unemployment, famine,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and sickness took over the island, as well as another
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: exodus of young adult males. However, an economic upsearch followed.
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  Speaker 1: In between nineteen sixty five and the nineteen seventy, the
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  Speaker 1: number of Haino dec priests from twenty three thousand, eighty
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: one to fourteen thousand, one hundred and forty three. Today,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: only around four thousy five hundred are still active. Most
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Hanos are now between sixty five and seventy five years
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  Speaker 1: of age. Despite government incentives such as promoting annual festivals
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and building a museum and a school for the Reno,
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  Speaker 1: a few young women are willing to embrace the lifestyle
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of their grandmothers.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Since then, the culture and legend of the Hainos have
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: gained more and more attention and revelry. In fact, the
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Kyoto Journal even talked about it helping establish a semi
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: matriarchal society. They write, quote, the Haino have elevated social
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: status and in otherwise patriarchal South Korea, but it is
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: unclear why free diving became a female dominated profession on Jju.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Explanations range from men dying in deep sea fishing accidents
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: or wars, to physiological reasons, for example, women's fat reserves
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: supposedly making them more resistant to cold water. Historically, so
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: many any families depended on the income of the heino
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that a semimatriarchal society developed in Jaju, it was not
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: unheard of for women to be the main breadwinners while
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: men would stay home and take care of the children.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: One way in which non standard gender roles were manifested
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: was through the payment of dowry to the family of
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the bride instead of the groom. Unlike families in mainland
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: South Korea, families on Jaju would wish for the birth
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: of baby girls rather than boys, which.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Is fun fast, fascinating and though the original divers may
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: have started in four hundred and thirty four AD, the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: traditions and practices changed as the people who took over
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: change from men to more women in the seventeenth century. Historically,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the practice would be passed down from mother to daughter,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: starting at the age about ten or eleven, but things
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: change and the numbers have changed since then, so here's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a bit more information from a Financial Times article. Traditionally
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: a job handed down from mother to daughter. Hanial life
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: has been shunned in recent decades by nearly all the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: girls born in Jju's seaside villages, which have tended to
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: favor more comfortable lives in the islands two cities or
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: on the mainland. For more than fourteen thousand in the
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the number of hanos have dwindled to fewer
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: than four thy five hundred today. So there are levels
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: that the Haino use for their expertise, and in order
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to be a part of one, it does take the
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: villager's approval to get to that point. So here's some
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: more information from wonder Wisdom dot com. Becoming a Hanyo
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: also is not an easy task. A new recruit has
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to earn a yes vote from every woman in their village.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: It can take up to five years for any woman
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to reach an expert level after crossing various levels like
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: sengun or novice Jungan which is middle level and Hagen
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: expert level. A Hagun can reach depth of more than
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: thirty feet and can stay more than two minutes underwater
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: at a.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Time and some additional information thanks to Oceanographic Magazine quote.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: This evolved into a system where only girls were trained
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to perform the dangerous free diving work of the Haino
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to harvest items such as abalony, conch, seaweed, sea urchin,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: and octopus from the ocean floor. To become a hano
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: is indeed a dangerous and tiring path. These women train
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: from the age of ten or younger to dive to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: depths of up to twenty meters and hold their breath
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: for up to two minutes underwater. They dive with no
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: protective equipment other than their wetsuits, flippers, goggles, and weighted
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: vest or belts to help them dive deeper. Lives can
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: and have been lost during these dives.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Right, I think I read won article when a oneman
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: was talking about how in the last I think, like
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: ten to I don't want to say five, maybe five years,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: maybe ten years, they had lost fourteen people.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And of course they talk about whether it's like the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: pressure underneath and causing heart attacks or just losing them,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and like there's so many things. But I was like dang,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that's a for a small village, that's a lot.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So of course with all the traditions and dangers, they
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: do all of this with love and respect for their environment.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: We were researching these amazing groups of women. Most of
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: them talked about what they do with a lot of
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: respect for their land and their area, and they talk
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: about the need of sustainability and safeguarding the ecosystem. So
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Young Meet talks about it. Specifically to UNESCO, We're going
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to talk more about their articles because they celebrate all
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the women there. As j Juhanio, we adhere to a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: small but essential rule. We avoid over harvesting. We respect
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: seasonal and size restrictions for marine products. For instance, during
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the abaloni season, we only gather those that are at
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: least seven centimeters in size. Similarly, when catching conch, they
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: must be over seven centimeters long. If we cannot assess
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: their size underwater, we check after surfacing and return undersized
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: specimens to the sea, allowing them to grow naturally. This
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: approach ensures that we harvest marine products in a sustainable
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: manner as they continue to thrive and contribute to the ecosystem.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And beyond just being conscient of their harvesting, they actually
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: collect garbage in order to restore the water. Here's a
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: quote from goodyeworld dot com. As part of their civic responsibility,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: younger Hanyo regularly dive into the sea to extract garbage, plastics,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: fishing nets, bottles, cans, oyster traps, styrofoam, and other human litter. Tourism,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: over development, a naval base, and plans for a second
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: airport also threaten their survival. In pre COVID years, soul
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Jju consistently ranked as the world's busiest air route, with
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: an average of nearly two hundred flights per day. Unfazed
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: by the attention of tourists and the media for their prowess,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Hainyo views themselves simply as ordinary workers. Their propitious legacy
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: is best summed up by oceanographer Sylvia A. Earle quote,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: if we fail to take care of the ocean, nothing
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: else matters. No ocean know us. We need to protect
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the ocean the same way we protect the land. The
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: ocean is the galaxy of life.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Right And just so y'all know, there's a lot of research,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, legitimate research papers based on what the Heyenos
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: have done and helping the ecosystem and helping to protect
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the ecosystem as well as the way that they breathe.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: They have actually gone out of their way to see
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: like what makes them so different and how they're able
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to handle the temperatures as well as going underwater and
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: surviving without equipment like oxygen and speaking of just to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: add to the hard coordinates to it, if you are
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: using scuba gear or oxygen, that's cheating. That's what they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: told one reporter and they were like, why don't you
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: do these new equipments And they're like, oh, no, that's cheating.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Why would we do that? And this again our sixty
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: five to eighty five year old women. And it wasn't
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: until the seventies that they decided not to use sojungi
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: or muldouk sum or essentially cotton swimsuits and from what
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I gather is like long, roguish type of outfits, and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: they started actually wearing wetsuits to protect themselves. And with that,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I think we already mentioned, but they would have diving mas.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they would wear fins, they would wear gloves, chest
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: weights and often the ones that like oh that could
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: cause cancer, that type of metal You sure you want
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to use that. They're like, yeah, it's fine, really, just
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: like eh, And then a weeding hoe and a net
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: attached to a flotation device. And I have a feeling
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that some of my K drama people have seen this.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome to someone Dari I think is one that is
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: specifically talking about Jju Island and the Hanyos and some
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: like tragedy of that. And then Our Blues has them too,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and they were mean. They are a clique apparently, but
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: they do it because they have to keep each other safe.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: They don't trust each other, then they can't do it right.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: So the all these things, But if you want to
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: talk about dramatized versions, there's plenty out there, and there's
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of actually recent documentaries too, So if you
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: all want to a little more in depth, we'll look
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: at that. And with that, not just with the K dramas,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: we do want to talk about some of the legends
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: and individual stories that were told, and also some of
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the funniest things. If you want to go look this
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: up and just look up the Hanyos or the Korean
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Sea women, you'll see all these amazing pictures. Because photographers
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: are so interested about this culture and they want to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: preserve it to that point they understand this is a
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: big deal. But like these women are like, oh my god,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: stop asking for my picture. I just want to go home.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I just want to count my food. Like it is amazing,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Like this is the harmonies of the grandma's that I'm like, Yeah,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that's about right. This is amazing. But the pictures are
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: beautiful and so interesting to just look at, so you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: should definitely take a look. But with that, yes, we
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: do want to talk about some of the stories. There
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: are a few that were featured for the Yenesco articles,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and one of them was again we've already mentioned her,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: young me Jong. She's a fifty five year veteran, so
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: not fifty five years old. She's been in the Hano
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: community for fifty five years, and she talks about it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Life as a Haino has its share of challenges, especially
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: for women. I've faced my own difficulties. In my case,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: economic hardships forced me to dive not only in local waters,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: but also in places like Japan. I've dedicated fifty five
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: years to this profession, working tirelessly to earn a living.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: It's incredibly gratifying to see our recognition and appreciation on
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a global scale. Now that the culture of Jju Haino
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: is inscribed as a UNESCO Heritage Element, I firmly believe
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that being a Haino is one of the best professions
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: for women, even without formal education. Personally, I didn't have
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: much formal education, but I take pride in what I've
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: learned as a Hano. I have a daughter and a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: daughter in law, and my goal is to pass down
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: this tradition to them, to make them Hanos as well.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm committed to ensuring that this invaluable heritage continues to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: thrive and be transmitted to future generations. And she even
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: talks about her own tactics in diving and says, quote,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: there are no special techniques. My approach is quite simple.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I hold my breath as long as I can. However,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I emphasize to fellow divers not to push themselves too hard,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: as overexertion can be life threatening. The middle lesson I
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: have been taught is to do what we can within
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: our limits, in showing safety above all else.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: The UNESCO article also talked about Kim Hung m and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: her story as a Haino. Quote, I decided to become
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a Haino because my mother was also a Haino. After
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: my divorce, I found myself raising two children on my own.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Juggling work and taking care of my kids made it
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: challenging to provide them with the care they needed, especially
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: when they were sick. So I half jokingly, half seriously
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: asked my mother if I could join her in diving.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: She mentioned that being a Hano would offer a more
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: conducive environment for raising children, so I decided to give
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: it a try. Of course, working as a heino is
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: physically demanding in the sea, but it gives me the
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: flexibility to prioritize my children's well being when necessary. That's
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: why I ultimately chose to pursue a career as a heino.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And she continues specifically addressing the typical question of holding
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: her breath underwater. Quote, The question of how long we
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: can hold our breath underwater is when I frequently encounter
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: no matter where I go. While being a Heino demands
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: extended periods of breath holding, it's more akin to a marathon.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Our work as divers often requires us to spend over
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: four hours in the sea. When needed, we can hold
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: our breath for more than two minutes, but we must
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: be cautious not to overextend ourselves. If we hold our
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: breath for too long, we risk losing our rhythm, which
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: can impede our ability to continue working underwater. Typically, our
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: breath holding time is around thirty five seconds or so.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Going beyond that duration can have adverse effects on our
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: bodies and our work, so we aim to keep it
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: within that range. And with all of that, she talks
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: about her daily routines. Quote. My daily routine as a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Jju Hano involves a combination of diving work and engaging
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: in cultural and environmental activities. After completing my diving task,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I dedicate time to practicing Haino folk songs, a cultural
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: tradition deeply rooted in my village. On days when I
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: don't go diving, I participate in O cleanup practices aimed
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: at removing debris from the sea and the coastline. In
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: addition to being a Haino, I approached this cleanup work
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: with the mindset of preserving and cleaning up our marine environments.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: My village is unique because we place importance on both
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: our cultural heritage such as folk songs, and environmental conservation.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: This splend of traditions and responsibilities keeps me quite busy
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: in my life as a Heniu.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about those songs in
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a minute. But before that, nothing will slow them down,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: not even giving birth. So here's one story from a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: sixty five year old veteran Hainho from huckmag dot org.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of women continued diving despite health challenges or
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: during pregnancy, as did several of the women in Boksun's
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: living room, which is a person who hosts all the heinyos.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Kimsunja sixty five year old even gave birth while she
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: was at sea during spring. She was picking seaweed close
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to the shore and suddenly her water broke and she
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: had no time to call somebody for help. I just
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: climbed up the sea toour and gave birth to my daughter.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: When the others realized that I was missing, they found
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: me and helped me back home with my baby safely.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: It was quite normal to give birth on the seashore,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: she told me. As her three youngest recruits looked thoroughly surprised.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: They would never be that calm, they proclaimed. The older
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Haino believed they had healthy babies because they were working
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: in the sea while being pregnant, not a practice I
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: would want.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: That is in tens. That's in tens, and age is
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: only a number. A bit more from Young me Jong,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the first veteran Haino. We were talking about quote, I'm
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: not the oldest among us. There's a remarkable ninety three
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: year old Haino among our ranks. To her and others,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I'd like to say, please take good care of yourselves
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and consider stepping back from diving. We have many talented
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: young Haino emerging, and your contributions have been invaluable. While
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I'm among the senior members, there are others who have
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: more years of experience.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Right. There are so many stories right after that being
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: like they were talking about seventy three year old woman
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and there was an age she's like, oh my sister,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: my older sister, she's still a Hanyo. Like they're all
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: talking about the fact that they continue going well beyond
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I think that was one that was like one hundred.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that that was the record or she
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: still is a part of it. Like there's so many
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: conversations about the fact that they didn't start till much later,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: or they still continued and they don't exist anymore. So
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: those are the average ages, especially when they started when
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: they were ten, But of course this would be around
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the prime time of women being a part of this community.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: The camaraderie within the Hanyo community, it's inspiring and it's
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: something they passed down to the younger generation of Hainos.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Here's another quote from the UNESCO article. The Hanino community
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: operates as a close knit group. Skilled divers may catch
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: ten kilograms of seafood, while less experienced divers might not
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: even reach one kilogram. However, everything is gathered together and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: shared equally, whether someone had a bottleful catch or a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: modest one. While younger divers may be honing their underwater skills,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: they actively contribute when out of the water. This equal
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: sharing of earnings is a well organized system that attracts
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: new recruits. The younger generations appreciate being treated equally and
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: sharing earnings uniformly, while experienced Hano value the enthusiasm and
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: respect of their younger counterparts. This mutual appreciation in strengthens
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: our sense of community and reinforces the importance of preserving
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the culture of Jju Haino as an enduring tradition that
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: should never be lost but passed on to future generations,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and as a part of a lot of their history
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and tradition, singing and songs are a part of that culture.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Here's some information from Atlas Obscure dot com. Chua Hueikyng,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: who has written extensively about Haino for decades, says that
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: writing the biography of a Doen, the first guardian of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Heineo's songs, was one of the most memorable experiences of
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: her career. The first time I heard her sing, I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: remember sobs in her voice, and before I knew it,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I was crying too. She says. Haino's songs served as
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: practical purposes. Starting in the mid nineteenth century, Hanyo rowed
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: their boats to work far from Jju Island to distant
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: locales such as Busan, Gongwan Province, and even Japan. To
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: pass the time as they rode, the women sing simple
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: melodies in six' eight time to the rhythm of the sea.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Waves the song lyrics, varied but often women singing lamenting
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the day they were, born complaining about their incompetent, husbands
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and in protests of the. Government Yeah, YEAH i could understand.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: That so here's the lyric from one of the songs
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: That i'm not going to sing BECAUSE i don't know
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: how to do six fight, Times So i'm just gonna
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: read it to. Y'all bae baying dove into the, sea
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: skipped the day's three meals and learned diving as a
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: way to be slowly saved up one coin at a
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: time to take a step at my husband's. Bar Tab
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: so sad in good the. News there's no sheet music
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: For heinyo, songs and a few of the nearly ten
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: thousand known two have. Titles sometimes the songs are called
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: eyodo saana because these two words appear often within the
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: lyrics Of haino, music but no one is really sure
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: what the term. Means some say yodo sana refers to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a mythical, island a fantasy haven where problems cease to,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: exist or even a heavenly. Afterlife others say the words
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: have no meaning at, all.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And the article goes. On the songs are poems filled
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: with irony and, tragedy but a closer look reveals that
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: they are a testament to these women's will to. Survive
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: and these songs are still sung, today and apparently some
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: have tried to remix some of the, originals causing some.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Debate but one thing is for, sure the legacy of
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: these songs remains an important part of The haino.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Culture so what's happening Today we kind of already talked
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: ab but we're gonna delve a little. Deeper the artistry
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Of haino has garnered more interests, recently with museums that
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: are dedicated to the years and years of tradition and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to the fact THAT unesco has placed them on The
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Intangible Cultural heritage. List they have become a cultural and tourist.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Phenomenon and here's some more information from That Kyoto journal article.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Quote in twenty, sixteen The hena culture was assigned to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the list OF Unesco Intangible Cultural heritage due to its
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: unique history and the rapid decline of female. Divers it's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: elevated status due to THE unesco listing has resulted in
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a new tourist industry and increase protection and funding for
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the women in the industry and the natural environment of the.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Island the government provides free healthcare and the necessary diving,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: equipment and has opened a diving school again and a,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: museum so there's. That, however while this new heritage status
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: has brought benefits for the, community it has made the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: women into living artifacts who performed their work for tourist.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Audiences there are now places where you can pay to
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: watch the women dive and they're. CATCH i would be
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: interested in doing that BECAUSE i bet it's real.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Good i'd be interested in. It But i'm also, LIKE
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: i Hope i'm not.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Bothered, WELL i think as, not as you're giving. Money,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: yeah that's they're cool with. That, like don't bother, them
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: don't come ask for pictures and, selfies just buy their. Food,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Now i'm good with.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: That give.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: So and from wonder wisdom dot. Com, yes the tradition is,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: dying particularly as a neo generation have decided to take
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: jobs in, cities but The hano is still one of
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: the most honored and respected women on the. Island the
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: strong work ethic and the decisive role they have played
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: in society have given them international. Acclaim in addition to
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: The hano becoming inscribed on THE Unesco list Of Korea's
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Intangible Cultural heritage in twenty, sixteen there's even The Haino
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: museum In. Jju, today and tourists visit this picturesque island
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: just to see them in. Action as One Haino MOON bokoi,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: says WHEREVER i, GO i tell people That I'm hano.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Proudly there are still those who are both looking to
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: be a part of the tradition as well as teach the.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Traditions from gloriosport dot com. Quote in recent, years a
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: small number of young women have left their lives on
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: The korean mainland to Become, hano parting with their stressful
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: city careers in order to reconnect with. Nature The heno
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: we spoke with stressed the importance of national policy in preserving,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: traditions but insisted the responsibility lies with the senior divers
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: to support and educate an emerging generation of divers and
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: teach the wisdom of the. Waters in many, Ways haino
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: are agents of change an invaluable source of. Wisdom their
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: lives depend on an intricate understanding of the ecosystem in
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: which they play a, Part owing to their profound respect
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: for the. Environment in spite of dwindling numbers of, divers
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: The haino represent an alternative vision for the. Future their
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: century long tradition is teaching a more considered approach to
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: fishing that might be the antidote to our, broken pillaged
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: ecosystem in the wake of unprecedented global environmental activism emerging
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: from the bottom, up the tradition Of haino is far from.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Disappearing it's evolving and taking different forms on an international.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Scale and, yeah exactly like. This the practice has spread
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: beyond Just. Jju their newer groups to join the legendary,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: crew such as located On GoJ, island still In South.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Korea but as a populator has, grown there have become
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: schools that are available to train future, hano's one In
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: jju and one In. Kojo so here's a quote from
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: hukmag dot. Org the sixty nine year old who was
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: being interviewed for this article admitted that when she first
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: started to recruit new, divers she was. Skeptical hunting in
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the deep is a tough and dangerous job with no
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: room for. Air the fishing nets moved back and forth
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: and can trap you quickly if you don't pay, attention she,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: said confessing that she has sworn to keep the three
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: recruits on her boat. Safe originally From, Jju lee moved
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: To koj as a, child and at that time daughters
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: were supposed to. Work they had no choice but to do.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: This she, explained it was hard to even go back.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Inside my mother kept, saying, no go, out go back
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: in the. Water and this is kind of her beginning
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: her time with The hainos, obviously as well as wanting
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to teach others and then spreading. That so they talked
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: about what that process was for that island and how
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: similar it is To, jju but why it's important to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: keep going and keep. Teaching so she had a lot
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of wisdom for these young, recruits and yet there was
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: one WHO i think she was thirty four talking about
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: she just really fell in love with the idea of
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: going away from the city and doing something close to. Nature,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: AGAIN i do wonder What i'm thinking that that might
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: have been me HAD i been In South. Korea i'd be,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Like i'm done with this BECAUSE i was born In,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: seoul like Near, seoul SO i wasn't near the. Islands but,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: DAMN i don't. Know THOUGH i don't like the creatures.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Undersea they freaked me, out so maybe.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: NOT i, yes, agreed AND i will also add on
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: to that just to reiterate like this is so difficult
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: physically to do what they're. Doing but also over on
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: my other Podcast, saver we did an episode on sea.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Urchins they're difficult to just get like that is hard
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: right to. Do it takes a lot of. Skill AND
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: i really love that they're so cognizant of the water
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and wanting to protect it and doing it like protecting the,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: culture protecting the, water protecting. Traditions but it, is it's,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: difficult it is so.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Hard so, WELL i think it needs to be Net
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: like a lot of the times they get on a,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: boat go out far out into the, ocean far enough,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: out and then they jump in like they are true free.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Divers i'm not saying they're just walking in right and.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Sparkling that's not what they're. Doing and they do try
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: to keep together as a crew so they can watch
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: each other just in case they are in distress because
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: they don't have. Anything but that floating device like that
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: to me is like what and it's all like decorated
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: from What i've. Seen, again this is kay dramas to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: show who is. WHO i think this is how they
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: keep up with each, other and so it's part of
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: what they, do but like, It, yeah it's not what
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: you think, of just like they just walk down to
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the sea and then, nah they pick Up no like
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: that one woman who was heavily, pregnant still needing to
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: work and gather. Things sure she might have been closer
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to the, shore but most of the time they are
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in boats and they all go out and then they
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: dive in to go and retrieve whatever they. Can and like,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: AREAS i think abaloni are harder to get because of
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the way they're like a little off from the main
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: areas that they stay. In so it's a whole thing
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: from What i've, gathered and it. Is it is very
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: dangerous and the fact that these are elder like elders
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: who are doing this is so amazing to even talk.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: About but, again if you have time to watch any
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: of these, documentaries reading any of these, articles you really
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: should apparently see urchins have had.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Anything that's my, Favorite my favorite fact from Our savorite
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: episode on sea urchins is that they wear little hats
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: and people usually it's like a shell or, seaweed you,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: know and it's to protect from the. Sun during the,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: pandemic we were all depressed and so people started printing
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: out like THREE d Like viking hats or which is,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: hats and the sea urchins will put them. On, yeah
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: and sometimes they will reject the hat if it's not good. Enough,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: yes and that makes me love them even.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: More.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, WELL i was also saying That i'd seen a
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: video of an. Octopus, yeah gifted a hat and like
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the because they had like trash and a diver was
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: trying to bargain with this octopus and got rejected like
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: three or four times to finally the perfect shell and
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: he was willing to give up the other hat to
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: take that, one like it was a whole. Thing secreeachers
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: are amazing and scary to. Me.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Agreed, agreed BUT i cannot recommend. Enough look up sea
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: urchins wearing. Hats you need a. Boost, also, yeah the,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: boats both of.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Them uh.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Huh, well, listeners if you have any thoughts about, this
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: please let us. Know we would love to hear from.
• 35:14
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• 35:16
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• 35:18
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• 35:22
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• 35:26
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