Latest / The Body Pod / Planning Out Your Training Year with Dr. Tony Boutagy - Expert Tips for Structured Fitness Goals

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Planning Out Your Training Year with Dr. Tony Boutagy - Expert Tips for Structured Fitness Goals · The Body Pod

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone. This is Haley and I'm Lara and welcome
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: to the body Pod. All right, Tony, welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the body Pod.
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  Speaker 2: Great to be here.
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  Speaker 1: It's been it's been a minute.
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  Speaker 2: It has indeed.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we are so happy to have you back.
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  Speaker 1: So we are in summer here, you're in winter. I
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  Speaker 1: think my tan beat yours now, but.
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  Speaker 3: No, I'm going to say, I feel like he still
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  Speaker 3: is rocking a good tan, which is making me mad.
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  Speaker 1: These lights are making me lighter.
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  Speaker 2: I will past a why well yesterday and I blended
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  Speaker 2: in so you are getting me.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to my world? All right. Well, the biggest question
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  Speaker 1: and what we want to talk about today with you
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  Speaker 1: because a lot of people have just recently purchased our
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  Speaker 1: programs and I have been inundated with how the heck
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  Speaker 1: do I plan a year? So this is something that
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  Speaker 1: I feel like you are spot on. I mean, you
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  Speaker 1: do my training so and my programs. So if someone
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  Speaker 1: is just like, what are the key the key items
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  Speaker 1: that have to be in a year. If we're just
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  Speaker 1: looking for you know, we're not physique competitors, and we
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  Speaker 1: just want to lay it out, what are like the
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  Speaker 1: basic things we need to have?
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  Speaker 2: There is a lot of confusion about this topic and
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  Speaker 2: long term planning, because I think a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: enter the gym or into this whole space through the
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  Speaker 2: lens of exercise and physical activity where there really isn't
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  Speaker 2: a plan. There is. You've got to get moving, you've
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  Speaker 2: got to contract muscle, you've got to add some weight
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  Speaker 2: training and some cardio and fit it all in and
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  Speaker 2: if you do your session, congratulations. That's how most research
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  Speaker 2: has done and that's how many trainers operate. But in
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  Speaker 2: the world of training and coaching, this is where you
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  Speaker 2: have a plan and each program should, in theory, blend
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  Speaker 2: into the next program, which then helps you develop capacities
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  Speaker 2: that you're going to use again. And this long term
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  Speaker 2: approach or viewing the year as a whole is called periodization,
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  Speaker 2: and that just simply means that rather than training specifically
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  Speaker 2: for the muscle you want to grow or the goal
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  Speaker 2: you want to achieve, which might be fat loss, and
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  Speaker 2: you just do that monotonously or year round. Coaches have
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  Speaker 2: worked out that if you train monotonously your results were off.
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  Speaker 2: You don't get the same kind of return on investment.
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  Speaker 2: So we need planned variation, and planned variation means that
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  Speaker 2: we need to do different things with different timelines because
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  Speaker 2: they take different periods of time to achieve. So as
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  Speaker 2: a broad view, you would start your training year by
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  Speaker 2: bringing up areas that you're going to need in the future.
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  Speaker 2: And for almost everyone that falls under two different viewpoints.
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  Speaker 2: One we need to get as fit as possible so
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  Speaker 2: you can withstand the demands of training for your goal,
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  Speaker 2: and the other is to find where you break down,
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  Speaker 2: and we call these weak links. For many people they
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  Speaker 2: are the same. There will be weakness in the trunk,
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  Speaker 2: the core, the low back, there will be in the shoulder,
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  Speaker 2: blade stabilizers, and then there will be typically in the
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  Speaker 2: foot and ankle. And we would spend a period of time,
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  Speaker 2: maybe four to eight weeks, getting as fit as possible
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  Speaker 2: and plugging up any weak links or any energy links.
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  Speaker 2: From that point then training has to become more specific.
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  Speaker 2: Where we build training volume, we start introducing more compound
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  Speaker 2: Barbel movements, multi joint bang for your buck, and I
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  Speaker 2: would do so in a way that really focus on
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  Speaker 2: developing strength, because strength underpins any other goal that you
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  Speaker 2: ever want to develop, whether it is losing body fat,
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  Speaker 2: gaining muscle, or doing both at the same time. Being
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  Speaker 2: stronger and fitter helps you do those, So we might
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  Speaker 2: spend another eight twelve weeks really focusing on bringing up
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  Speaker 2: your strength levels. The rest of the training year, you
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  Speaker 2: would very much focus on your goals, and that is
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  Speaker 2: changing the program, say every month, so the body is
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  Speaker 2: presented with a new exercise type, a different training method,
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  Speaker 2: like it a superset or just normal sets or a
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  Speaker 2: drop set, so the body doesn't know what it's going
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  Speaker 2: to be presented within the next block, and you'll do
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  Speaker 2: that until the rest of the year, and then you'll
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  Speaker 2: take some active recovery. So that's a broad view of
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  Speaker 2: a training year.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so then it sounds like bringing up the weak link,
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  Speaker 1: so like a foundation phase that's really setting you up.
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  Speaker 1: And then the strength block of eight to twelve weeks.
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  Speaker 1: Is that like a specific preparation phase or is that
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  Speaker 1: just like strength meaning low reps.
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  Speaker 2: Strength meaning low reps. And the reason why I would
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  Speaker 2: put it in that order, and to take a step back,
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  Speaker 2: there's many ways you can order a training year, but
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  Speaker 2: it always depends on who you are and how fit
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  Speaker 2: you are and what you've done previously, but also where
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  Speaker 2: you want to go with your training. If your goal
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  Speaker 2: is just to get stronger, that's all you care about.
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  Speaker 2: Then we'd probably order things differently, would build foundation always,
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  Speaker 2: but then we'd focus on building muscle mass and volume
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  Speaker 2: because a larger muscle is a stronger muscle. So we'll
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  Speaker 2: then spend a few months building muscle with different techniques,
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  Speaker 2: and then we would train strength because strength benefits for
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  Speaker 2: more muscle. But most of the clientele that I would see,
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  Speaker 2: they want body composition, decreased body fat, increased muscle mass,
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  Speaker 2: more tone. Now what benefits doing volume well, clearly, being
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  Speaker 2: fitter enables you to do more work so you don't
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  Speaker 2: get exhausted and can't recover between sets. So we want
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  Speaker 2: you to get fitter, but we also want you to
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  Speaker 2: be stronger because the more weight you can lift and
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  Speaker 2: the more muscle farber you can recruit, you can grow
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  Speaker 2: more muscle. So the ordering is always different. In the
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  Speaker 2: context what do you want to achieve by twelve months
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  Speaker 2: and that will dictate what we do in the timelines.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so can we review the main So we we
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  Speaker 1: have power, we have hypertrophy, we have mac strength, and
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  Speaker 1: we have muscle endurance. So do you feel like women,
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  Speaker 1: especially women aging over forty, need to do all of those.
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  Speaker 2: I would say yes as a broad answer. And the
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  Speaker 2: reason why I would say yes is because we don't
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  Speaker 2: want to specialize when we are getting older. We want
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  Speaker 2: to be generalists and we want all capacities of fitness
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  Speaker 2: to be developed to a certain degree. Because when we
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  Speaker 2: are in our sixties, seventies, eighties, you don't just want
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  Speaker 2: to have strength in a very specific range of motion
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  Speaker 2: or in a movement. You want to have mobility. You
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  Speaker 2: want muscle mass, We want strength, and yes we want
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  Speaker 2: power as well, because power is what prevents falls. And
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  Speaker 2: when we work backwards from Okay, I'm eighty, what do
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  Speaker 2: I want to be able to do when I'm eighty, Well,
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  Speaker 2: we need a plan we're in our thirties and forties
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  Speaker 2: because you don't develop power overnight. It takes years, if
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  Speaker 2: not decades, to develop strength, power and muscle mass. And
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  Speaker 2: that means a well rounded program in your thirties and
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  Speaker 2: forties needs to be preparing the foundation for what you
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  Speaker 2: want to be able to do in your eighties.
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  Speaker 3: That is such a good point.
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  Speaker 1: So for power, if we're looking at and we're talking
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  Speaker 1: about power, we can get that in the weights realm.
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  Speaker 1: But then we can also get that in our cardio
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  Speaker 1: and is that the same type of power that's hitting
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  Speaker 1: the type two muscle fibers.
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  Speaker 2: That's right, and we essentially want that down two avenues.
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  Speaker 2: Which is a really good point because in strength training
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  Speaker 2: or in the gym, power is just simply your development
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  Speaker 2: of force done as quickly as possible, which means that
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  Speaker 2: we can focus on much lighter loads, maybe thirty percent
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  Speaker 2: of your max, and we move that as fast as possible.
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  Speaker 2: So that could be things like jumping, lunging or swinging
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  Speaker 2: clearly your nowhere knee or maximum, but you're moving with speed.
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  Speaker 2: The other is you're working now more towards seventy eighty
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  Speaker 2: percent of your max lower reps and we try and
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  Speaker 2: work as hard as possible, things like Olympic lifts or
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  Speaker 2: push press jerks, loaded squats, but done with speed, and
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  Speaker 2: that is also developing an aspect of power. But the
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  Speaker 2: point is you're moving as fast as you can, which
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  Speaker 2: recruits your explosive fastwitch muscle fibers. Now, if we take
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  Speaker 2: yourself onto a bike, can you warm up and you
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  Speaker 2: develop as much force as possible over fifteen to twenty
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  Speaker 2: thirty seconds, you are also developing explosive power power on
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  Speaker 2: a modality which is cardiovascular, and a well rounded program
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  Speaker 2: would absolutely plan for both of those different styles of training.
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  Speaker 2: Power on the bike like a thirty second sprint, and
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  Speaker 2: then in the gym some kederbell swings and some jumps
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  Speaker 2: and some maybe some explosive push up something like that.
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  Speaker 1: Oh. I did the barbell jumps today and I was like, well,
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  Speaker 1: this didn't look like rosies. It was not. I felt
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  Speaker 1: like it was level Yeah, oh next level, I mean yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is embarrassing. I've got to
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  Speaker 1: work on the on the jumping.
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  Speaker 2: You're not alone, it's anyone who has performed endurance training,
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  Speaker 2: especially cycling. Cycling is very quad dominant, but we're used
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  Speaker 2: to doing hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of
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  Speaker 2: thousands of sub maximal repetitions. If you then take your
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  Speaker 2: that body and that brain that can organize muscle recruitment
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  Speaker 2: and say now jump, the brain doesn't know how to
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  Speaker 2: organize that, which means that explosive training for endurance individuals
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  Speaker 2: is extremely important because it is a chink in the armor.
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  Speaker 2: It's an absolute weak link. Whereas if you're a runner
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  Speaker 2: or a sprinter, there's no problems there. Your brain knows
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  Speaker 2: how to organize your fast rich fibers to produce all
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  Speaker 2: the fiber contractions together, and you can and you can
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  Speaker 2: produce height. But all of us in durifoe endure lovers endurabes,
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  Speaker 2: so they endure it love, we jump and we get
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  Speaker 2: an inch off the ground because the body is just
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  Speaker 2: not used to producing force like that.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well that makes me feel better. So the fast
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  Speaker 1: so the fast twitch my fibers, which are the type two,
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  Speaker 1: those are the ones that we start to lose as
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  Speaker 1: we age. Can we like, how much does the VO
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  Speaker 1: two max drop every decade or does it depend? Obviously
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  Speaker 1: it depends on if you're working on it or not.
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  Speaker 2: All things being equal, our physical attributes peak by twenty
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  Speaker 2: five to thirty years old, and then they remain constant
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  Speaker 2: for a little while, and then they start to slowly decline.
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  Speaker 2: As you've alluded to, they don't decline at the same rate.
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  Speaker 2: We lose our fast twitch and our brain to muscle
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  Speaker 2: connection the quickest, So power drops off the fastest, followed
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  Speaker 2: by strength, followed by muscle mass, and that would indicate
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  Speaker 2: that we do need forms of training that are counteracting
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  Speaker 2: what we know is declining with the aging process. VO
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  Speaker 2: two max is coordinated by a number of different other
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  Speaker 2: pathways and attributes to produce maximum oxygen uptake, that is,
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  Speaker 2: the ability to get oxygen from the mouth, the lungs
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  Speaker 2: into the bloodstream and being taken up by the muscles.
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  Speaker 2: That coordination does decline as well, but not to the
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  Speaker 2: same degree that we lose fastwitch fibers and explosive power.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, wait, and you said the muscle and mind connection.
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  Speaker 3: We also that's one of the first things that.
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  Speaker 2: Go when we recruit muscle and perform an action. It's
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  Speaker 2: coordinated by the central nervous system, which is the highest
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  Speaker 2: centers in the brain and the spinal column, and then
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  Speaker 2: the spinal column sends those signals to the working muscles,
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  Speaker 2: which is your peripheral nervous system. That coordination, which we
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  Speaker 2: call newer muscular strength neuromuscular power, that declines with age
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  Speaker 2: because the nerves that turn on the largest motor units,
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  Speaker 2: which are called fastwitch muscle fibers, they decline or they
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  Speaker 2: atrophy the fastest and the quickest, and in studies of
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  Speaker 2: bed rest or and aging show that it's always power
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  Speaker 2: and the fastwitch fibers that detrained the most and show
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  Speaker 2: the most profound changes when you are in bed resting,
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  Speaker 2: or when you've been sick and you can't get out,
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  Speaker 2: or just with the aging process.
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  Speaker 1: So or is your votam max back up after the
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  Speaker 1: bedroom now back week?
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  Speaker 2: So I've tested myself. I've lost about fifteen to twenty
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  Speaker 2: percent off my lactate at two million molars power it
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  Speaker 2: two million molars and then my veot max. So I
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  Speaker 2: just tested this week and as you would expect, that's
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  Speaker 2: consistent with the literature that you're losing somewhere around ten
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  Speaker 2: fifteen percent.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So when we know hypertrophy, are most women and
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  Speaker 1: if you don't, you're learning now hypertrophy is kind of
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  Speaker 1: that rep range where we're building muscle and then we
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  Speaker 1: have the strength what we talked about, which is generally
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  Speaker 1: like under five or six reps. What what is different?
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  Speaker 1: What is happening that is happening when we're max strength
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  Speaker 1: under those five reps versus hypertrophy versus power.
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  Speaker 2: This has been the area of sports science which has
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  Speaker 2: most certainly had the largest revision in the last ten years.
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  Speaker 2: Textbooks up until let's just say a decade ago would
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  Speaker 2: describe it in very clear zones. If you lift between
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  Speaker 2: one to five rep maximum, which means you can't do
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  Speaker 2: six or seven reps, the load lifted teaches the central
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  Speaker 2: nervous system to memorize the movements and the muscle fibers
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  Speaker 2: that you need to do a square or a bench
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  Speaker 2: press or a chin up. With those heavy loads, it
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  Speaker 2: turns the muscles on to do the movement and it
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  Speaker 2: turns those that aren't needed off. That's a very much
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  Speaker 2: brain to muscle connection, so you're memorizing this at an
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  Speaker 2: unconscious level because the set and the load doesn't really
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  Speaker 2: cause a lot of muscle protein breakdown. The main adaptation
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  Speaker 2: with lifting reps under five is that you get maximually stronger.
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  Speaker 2: So if you were to test a squad here and
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  Speaker 2: then eight weeks later, the load goes up, but the
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  Speaker 2: muscle mass doesn't particularly change, which tells us it's the
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  Speaker 2: nervous system getting you stronger and not the muscular system.
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  Speaker 2: If then you do five reps up to say twelve reps,
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  Speaker 2: that has been regarded forever as being the sweet spot
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  Speaker 2: to grow muscle and get a little bit stronger. So yes,
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  Speaker 2: you will get stronger, but that's primarily due to growing
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  Speaker 2: more muscle tissue, and that was thought because the hormones
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  Speaker 2: released at say the eight to twelve REP range and
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  Speaker 2: the load lifted and the muscle protein breakdown that was
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  Speaker 2: all conducive to growing muscle and not much else. Studies
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  Speaker 2: over the last decade have said it doesn't really matter
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  Speaker 2: with the REP zone. It matters that you work to
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  Speaker 2: your potential, to your what we call reps in reserve.
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  Speaker 2: If you work with effort that you fail or almost
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  Speaker 2: fail at fifteen twenty thirty reps, then it's that failure
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  Speaker 2: point that recruits all of the available muscle fibers for
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  Speaker 2: that day and produces a signal to grow muscle. So
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  Speaker 2: we now know that one to five is the best
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  Speaker 2: REP zone for developing strength. Obviously it's closest to maximum,
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  Speaker 2: but then from five upwards depending on your time and
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  Speaker 2: whether you like doing twenty thirty forty reps. It's now
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  Speaker 2: just an arbitrary issue. It's working with intention and that
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  Speaker 2: provides the fiber recruitment and the muscle protein breakdown to
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  Speaker 2: turn on muscle synthesis.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so how important is it do you think for
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  Speaker 1: a female that that might be newer to lifting, that
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  Speaker 1: comes in like, is it important for someone in their
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  Speaker 1: fifties and sixties to do a one rep max?
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  Speaker 2: I think the risk versus reward is not there. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you can make sense. Yeah, unless you are a former
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  Speaker 2: athlete and you want to test your strength, there's nothing
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  Speaker 2: that a one rep max is giving you that a
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  Speaker 2: five or a six rep max can give you without
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  Speaker 2: the downsides of catastrophic muscular failure. Mm hmm.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think someone in that that's working out from home?
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  Speaker 1: Obviously anyone new to strength training can build some muscle
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  Speaker 1: at home. But do you find because I just posted
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  Speaker 1: this and now I'm like, what would Tony say, do
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  Speaker 1: you find that there's a runway that like, at some
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  Speaker 1: point you're going to stop getting benefits if you only
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: have a few dumbbells at home and you know, some
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: bands or whatnot.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. It it certainly moves from the concept of training,
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  Speaker 2: which we talked about earlier and physical exercise. So at
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  Speaker 2: some point, the dumbbells, when you start the dumbbells, the
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  Speaker 2: bans the body weight is a stimulus for adaptation and
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  Speaker 2: improvements in strength and body composition, but at some point
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  Speaker 2: without the ability to lift more and do more and
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: change up the exercise selection. That stimulus is going to
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: move from training to physical exercise, so it will promote health,
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  Speaker 2: but it won't improve body composition. And the difference is simple.
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  Speaker 2: You can have a scan of your body composition or
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: measure an indicity of strength. How many push ups can
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you do? How many lunges with that weight? And test
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  Speaker 2: yourself from day one and then day twelve, week twelve,
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  Speaker 2: and then from week twelve to a year, and you
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: realize that there will be a change from zero to
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: twelve weeks and then it will just plato. So from
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  Speaker 2: that point onwards, where you're plataing, you're improving your health,
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  Speaker 2: you're physically moving, but you're no longer training and that's
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  Speaker 2: the difference.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So how often would you recommend that someone because
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: there's enbodies all over the place that people can use,
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  Speaker 1: and do you recommend every three months? Every six months?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, yeah. It depends on how much your
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: training and how much your body mass is shifting. What
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: your goal is. Do you have a lot of mass
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to lose do you want to build a lot of mass?
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  Speaker 2: And if that is the case, then you want to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: test regularly and that could even be less than twelve weeks,
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  Speaker 2: but probably not less than eight weeks. And the reason
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  Speaker 2: why I'm monitoring is that it in a realistic period
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: of time is it It leaves us with the point
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  Speaker 2: do we continue on the path that we're going or
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: do we need to change? And this is what coaches
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  Speaker 2: will do, is that they will look at the athlete,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: look at the client, and give them a program and
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: monitor is it going in the direction that we want?
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  Speaker 2: Because if it isn't we need to change? Do we
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: need to change the freaquy, the exercise selection, the rep
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  Speaker 2: range and good coaches will move all of these things
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: around like a jigsaw to get the best results. And
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: at home, you have to be your own coach. If
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: you want to improve body composition, measure it and then
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: measure it at another time point eight or twelve weeks
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to give it enough time to change. And if it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: not changing, then we need to ask ourselves the honest questions,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: why is it not? Am I not sleeping enough? Am
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I not eating well? Is the training at a sufficient frequency? Volume? Intensity?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And that's essentially what a coach should be doing.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I just have in my head from your you saying
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: this in the fat last course you don't guess you measure.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Except yes, okay, So for a female that might have
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: like ostiopinia, do you think it's still like because the
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: message is kind of out there in some other you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: Pilates world or whatever, that you shouldn't be loading the bone.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a curious load the bone. Yeah, that's a
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: curious standpoint to the bone. The bone wants loading and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: either want strain or it wants jarring. And we know
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: studies where they've been skipping and jumping have shown some
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of the most profound changes in lower body bone density
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: because of that impact with the ground. Let's beyond dispute.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: The studies show that bone turnover. You can see changes
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: within as short as eight to ten weeks, but you
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: see profound changes from six months to twelve months. And
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: that's why almost every study that shows change in bone
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: has been at least twelve months in duration. But you
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: need to create the bend on the bone that's strained
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: on the bone that then deposits the mineral salts at
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: both ends of the bone because you're bending it like this,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you need both. I don't quite comprehendive viewpoint that says
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: if you are osteopenic and on your way to osteoporosis.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: You don't want to load the bone. Yes, you want
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: to load it safely, progressively in line with the client's
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: ability level, but you will only build bone density by
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: either jumping or loading the bone. Now, I've been much
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: more of a fan of loading the bone via weight
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: training because I can do so very progressively from the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: easiest of body weight movements to loading it with a barbell,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: whereas most clients when they go from zero to jumping
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: then get stress fractures. So I think, yes, the data
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: is undisputable that jumping and skipping gold standard for bone density,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: but that just needs to be perhaps brought in at
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: maybe week eight or twelve into a well rounded program.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and jumping vertically, I mean because in the plot's world. Again,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: this is not a dis on ploates, so nobody come
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: at me. But there's jump board on the reformer where
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you're jumping, but you don't have like you're lying down. Yeah,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: not the same as the vertical jump. Yeah.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Most of the studies are done with either pure long
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: term studies and they add jumping regularly every day, But
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the acute studies are really interesting you'll ingest a radioactively
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: harmless radioactive isotope attached to a collaginous amino acid, typically
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: taken two hours before jumping, and then they'll watch where
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: those amino acids go after skipping rope what do you
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: call it jump rope in your country. Yeah, they track
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: it and gets taken up into the collagenist tissue. So
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: this is a proof of concept, is that if you
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: do that long enough, you keep building the bone matrix
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: by doing these jumping based movements.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so if you're back to programming and planning, so
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: we have to do max strength or we should We
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: should be doing max strength hypertrophy if we have a
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: desire to build muscle, which most women need desperately. Most
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: women are under muscled, and power is obviously important. So
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: but you are saying, like, if we can bring in
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: concurrent training of like, well, that's what we both do
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: as endurance like endurance athletes. Can you do both at
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the same time or does one counteract the other.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: If we were living in the nineteen seventies and early eighties,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: you would say, yes, you've got to pick one and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: do one, because every time you do a training session,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it sends a signal. All training does is sends a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: signal to the muscle or the heart to say that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: was your training session. This is the adaptation you're going
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: to create. Aerobic training creates aerobic adaptation. Strength training creates
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: muscular adaptation in the fastwitch fibers. And that was supported
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: by a lot of what's called mechanistic data or sells
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: signaling data, where they would do leg press and they'll
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: do bike riding and they'd look at this one is
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: actually interfering with this one, and that became led to
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: a phenomena called the interference effect or the concurrent training
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: effect that was held constant for decades where people would
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: just never do two different modes. You would just do
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: one or the other. And a number of really smart
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: sports scientists said, well, this doesn't make sense because most
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: sports require strength and power and endurance. Unless you're a
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: weightlift or a powerlifter, every other sport needs it. So
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: how should we best put them together? And studies looked
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: at combining them within a week, within the session, within
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the same day. There's been a number now and the
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: studies that look at all of the studies, called meta analyses,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: show that concurrent training performing hypercha fhy or strength and
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: aerobic training in the same week don't interfere with each other,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: except they may interfere with explosive power, and that would
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: make sense, and there's probably a number of reasons why
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: that is the case. But if you are a well
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: rounded program, you could do aerobic training or interval training
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: on one day. The next day you could focus on
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: strength and muscle mass the next day on a different
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: aspect of aerobic There's a lot to do, but probably
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: the point is that you just wouldn't do them in
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: the same session. You would just do them in the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: same week so the body has enough time to adapt
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to each of the signals appropriately.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And making sure that you're recovering from those like you know,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you can't be pring on the bike.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, every training session doesn't need to be
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: as hard as possible and every Again, this is good
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: coaching advice that the general public might not fully appreciate.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: The early study that showed an interference between running and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a powerlifting program, and they looked directly at strength, was
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: they added an endurance training program on top of a
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: powerlifting program, which clearly meant the subjects would be fatigued
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: when we are looking at a train we need to
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: make sure that each session is done in a relatively
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: fresh state. In other words, your duration and your intensity
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: and your volume is such that you respect everything else
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: done in the training week. And rather than thinking every
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: session needs to be as hard as possible, it's what
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: am I really trying to achieve? What am I trying
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: to get from this session? I'm trying to improve strength. Well,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: you need to do low reps, not many sets, and
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: lots of rest between the sets, so you should be
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: recovered by the time next day you go to do
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: a rowing or a bike session, because you haven't annihilated yourself.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So we do need to get out of the framework
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: that every session should obliterate us and think of it
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: as what is the goal and let's stimulate that pathway.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and back to VO two max. So you can
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: build VO two max in a high intensity interval session,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: but you can also build it in a low intensity,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: steady state. Correct.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Correct, Depending on your training experience, any form of aerobic
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: training in any zone when you're a beginner will improve
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: your maximal oxygen uptake. As you get fitter, then yes,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you will need to rev the system more. Ie do
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: more time closer to votwo max. So it stands to
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: reason that your maximal oxygen uptake is your highest level
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: where you can take in oxygen and your muscles can
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: use it, and that corresponds to your maximal heart rate
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: because that's the maximum matt you're going to pump blood
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: around the body. So it stands to reason then that
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: you can't do continuous work there beyond a few minutes.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So we dip in and out of those zones called
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: a red zone, or typically above ninety percent of your
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: heart rate max, for at least an accumulated ten or
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: more minutes, and that has been shown over and over
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: to be the sweet spot for raising votwo max. And
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: how you get there, there's so many different ways. You
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: can do sprint interval training, you can do short intervals,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: you can do long intervals. As long as you are
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: a cumulating ten or more minutes above ninety percent, that
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: by far is the most potent way of raising your
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: VO two max. Yeah, but yes, working in zone two
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: will to a certain degree, but you can't compare them.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Training close to viotwo max is the best way of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: doing it. It's like saying, Haley, you're going to improve
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: your squat one rm, I'm going to give you ten RM,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and yes your squad will go up a little bit.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: But if you work at one RM, your squat's really
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: going to go up. It's the same, the same analogy.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you just I think I heard this
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: on the Huber a Huberman podcast. But so of course
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you can. But you can also, like you get the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: benefits from the low intensity steady state, you get the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: benefits of the hit the hit. You can just they're different,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: but you can also you're cutting your time and more
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: than half sometimes.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Oh this is the this is the beauty of both
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: strength training in the gym and VO two training. They
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: are intensity driven, not volume driven. And that's really important
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: because changes in metabolic health and mitochondria and in the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: gym in muscle growth hyperchafye, they require time and volume.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: If you look at the training programs of either bodybuilders
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: to grow muscle maximally or to a de front cyclists
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: to improve endurance, they spend a lot of time doing
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: volume and doing a lot of cycling. But when you
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: look at pure strength, the data is really clear you
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: actually don't need a lot of gym time to improve strength.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: You just need a lot of time to improve hyperchaffee,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and you don't need a lot of time to improve
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: via to max ten minutes accumulated, but metabolic health and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: mighty coondry you need a lot more time. So we
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: a lot time specifically to what your goal is. And
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: if it's hyperchafee, yes, you need a lot of volume
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and you need a lot of time, but strength you don't.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: You might get away with one or two exercises a workout,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: whereas the rest of the workout, the rest of the
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: forty minutes is all volume to build mustle because it
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: is so much harder to grow new tissue as it
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: is to tell the brain to recruit more fibers to
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: get stronger.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Ah, I love it. So if you're out this, I know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't it great? So if we're looking at like someone
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: like Laura, Laura like you're planning out your year, so
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: we move it back in. We have all these components.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Now you have a newborn.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And limited time, limited time, and want to build muscle,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: so the majority.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Of her year would be out of a foundation phase,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: which is it seems like that goes in everyone's program
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: somewhat of a foundation phase, then you have different you
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: have more hypertrophy building then along with max strength exactly.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So in your case, Laura, what we would look at
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: is well, what did the pregnancy do and where is
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: your body suffering? And we will do a bit of
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: a stock take, so what are you good at? Imagine
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: after relaxing, your body is quite flexible, but are you
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: getting tendon issues because the body was so lax and
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: your hamstring tendon and your perfect muscles they are a
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: little bit lax and they need a bit of strengthening.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: So we will do an audit, a stock take to
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: ask where do you find you're getting sore? Is it
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: your back? Is it your hips? And with a little
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: bit of testing, we can identify what we're going to
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: focus on in the foundational phase while we rebuild your fitness,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: respecting that you'll be sleep deprived and you don't have
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of time. And this is where we stick
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: to the minimum dose rather than the optimal dose. And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: there is a huge range. If you want to build muscle,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you can get away with four to eight sets a
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: week on the low end, as high as thirty sets
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: a week, and that's the optimal for a physique competitor.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: But then there's you still build appreciable muscle down at
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: this end of the spectrum. So it's minimum time training
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and that's what we focus.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: On very quality, which is really encouraging, I think for
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: people to hear, because I think sometimes often people will
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: quit or get discouraged because they think they have to
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: spend an hour or more every day at the gym,
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: or four to five times a week, right, And so
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's really encouraging that you can do it
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: without spending so much time.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I completely agree, and this should be a public message
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: of flexibility in program design that if you haven't slept
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: because you've been up all night, then that next planned
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: session becomes say a mobility or core session because it
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: doesn't require a lot of brain. You're doing what you
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: can do, but you've always allotted the minimum time requirement,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: which would say fifteen minutes would be a minimum time requirement,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: and that could be fifteen minutes on a rower, fifteen
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: minutes on a by, fifteen minutes doing some interval training,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: but that's your minimum time requirement. And fifth, actually I
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: actually did a fifteen minute workout yesterday because I was
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: on calls all day, So I just knew I had
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: a break, and I'd go in and I'd do fifteen minutes.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And that allowed me to do three exercises of fifteen minutes.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And that's how you approach it. You use minimum time
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: and not confuse that you still get appreciable results. Yes,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that's not Olympic level training, but we're not deluded that
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: it is. Right.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So do you think that if we're lifting in
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: those low rep ranges? Do you have or do you
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: think it's a good idea to lift in those ranges
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: all the time or do you vary that?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I absolutely vary them when you lift heavy. There is
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: a really great demand on the neuromuscular system that requires recovery,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: but it also creates a lot of monotony. The can
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: overwork the system a lot. This means we need much
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: more planned recovery as those too. If you just wanted
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to grow muscle and you were always working around say
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: ten repetitions, you could probably accumulate many programs before you
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: needed to change things up dramatically. But with strength training,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you would dip in and do it and your strength
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: would jump straight up, and as your nervous system was
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: responding well, and just as it was about to platter,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: then you change it. I think for strength oriented goals,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: probably a one to one ratio of a program that
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: was max strength oriented and then volume oriented would probably
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: be a really good starting place. Month one, five sets
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: of five, month two, three sets of twelve, month three,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: seven sets of three, month four, four sets of ten,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: so forth like that. That one to one I think
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: respects the nervous system's demand for recovery. And if your
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: goal was muscle mass, you could probably do a few
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: more blocks of volume in there because you need time
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: to really stimulate and it takes so long to grow muscle.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Oh so long. So when you're doing now, I'm flip
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: flopping and going back to the cardial portion. So when
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you have you like to blend a lot of the
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: time the zone two, some time in zone two, and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: then have the head at the end. So you're kind
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: of getting benefits of both.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it speaks to the point that we made
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: earlier is that it doesn't take much to improve your
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: voto max. Studies are really clear on this, and in
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: fact it can go backwards, and especially when you look
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: at the data on the sprint interval training and There
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: was a recent paper that says less is more, and
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: that is, if you do three or four lots of
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: thirty second sprints versus eight, ten, twelve lots of thirty
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: you'd think for sure doing more work would give you
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: better results, but when it came to VO two max,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: it didn't. And the reason for that is you pace yourself.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: If I said, girls, you're going to do ten lots
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: of thirty seconds, you're going to pace. If I said
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you're only going to do three, you're going to go
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: all out'. VO two max is strongly dependent on intensity,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: whereas metabolic health or zone two training is very much
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: driven on volume. You need to expose the muscle fibers
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: type one and the mitochondria to repeated contractions at low intensity.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: And that's why for most general public, we might do
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: twenty to forty minutes in zone two steady state, and
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: then the last ten to twenty minutes then we rev
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: the engine and we might do a minute on minute off,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: or thirty on thirty off or something at the end,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and then we distinctly work on metabolic pathways for mitochondrial health,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: and then we rev the system to get the VO
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: two max. So in a busy world. That's your hour done.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Oh I love it. That's what I do or what
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I have been doing, and you're just I mean, it's
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: so much easier than like today, going on a three
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and a half hour bike ride, like just doesn't happen
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: all the time, and most people don't have that time.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: So if you're looking for someone for fat loss, and
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: we have an upcoming nutrition course launching, but if we're
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: talking about fat loss, because every female I don't know
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: anyone that's like I don't want I don't have anything
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: to lose or I don't want to lose it my fat. Yeah,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, which you know, I think we women tend
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: to get in that area and stick in that area,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: which is a whole nother subject. But for a year,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: if we're like, okay, we have a foundation phase, let's
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: say it the first of the year. How long would
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you keep someone in a fat loss phase? Would it
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: depend on how much weight they have to lose before
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: you would pull them out because they want to build
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: muscle too.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the point. If one has a lot of
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: fat to lose, then you can theoretically stay in energy
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: deficits for much longer before big penalty kicks into the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: other organ systems. If you are approaching your ideal level
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: of body composition, that's where it's probably wiser to dip
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: in and out of energy deficits. The body doesn't mount
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: this inbuilt evolutionary response to lack of a better word, starvation,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: because you're exercising and expending energy and you're eating less
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: than you ordinarily would, so you're running an energy deficit.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: If you've got a lot of fat to lose, the
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: body is burning through a lot of that fat, which
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: is okay, and it doesn't it probably doesn't present really
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: any health consequences. And when you look at the health
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: of people losing big amounts of weight, they only get healthier.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: But when you're very close to your level of ideal
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: body composition, that's where the body can change levels of thyroid,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: levels of reproductive hormones start to shut down your energy
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: expenditure that occurs during exercise and at rest, And in
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: that case, it makes a lot of sense that you
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: dip in and out. Now what's the ideal on to
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: off We don't know. I would typically use a one
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: or two days of energy balance a week for somebody
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: who's chasing at the point to your end of their
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: body composition. But for people who are larger and have
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: more fat to lose, you could probably run four or
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: six weeks before you had an energy break.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh so fascinating. Okay, so we're going to wrap
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: it up here. This has been such a fantastic conversation
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: as always, so I think it really gives women an
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: idea that you know, Number one, if you have fat
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: loss and you have a lot of weight to lose
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: or more weight to lose, you can stay in there
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: provided you do it right. But if you have you know,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: those goals of max strength, it's important to have power,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: max strength, and hypertrophy. To kind of come to a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: conclusion that all of those zones in those areas, as
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: well as HIT and low intensity steady state, they all
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: have a place in a good program exactly.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Well, and I never thought about planning out a year
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: and how you explained it at the beginning of the podcast,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: It was like, sign me up, I want to plan
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: out a year because it makes so much sense.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: About building each block.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, building each block.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: So now I'm really excited. Yeah, so great. All right, Well,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: thanks Tony, we will have you back on and we'll
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: chat with you soon. Thanks for listening.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Until next time,