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What is Abusive Guardianship In Psychiatry & Acute Care Hospital Settings · Wellness Uncensored

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Speaker 1: Any health related information on the following show provides general
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Speaker 1: information only. Content presented on any show by any host
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Speaker 1: or guest should not be substituted for a doctor's advice.
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Speaker 1: Always consult your physician before beginning any new diet, exercise,
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Speaker 1: or treatment program.
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Speaker 2: Hey, good afternoon, and welcome to another episode of Wellness
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Speaker 2: and Censored. My name's doctor Patty G. I'm a psychiatric
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Speaker 2: nurse practitioner, and I'm always here to tell you all
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Speaker 2: things about health, wellness, physical, mental, emotional, and all the
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Speaker 2: stuff in between, psychosocial, spiritual, you name it. Got some
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Speaker 2: wonderful topics to talk about today. We've got several people
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Speaker 2: that are going to be joining us. Marsha was a
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Speaker 2: wonderful guest here just a little while back, and Marcia
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Speaker 2: has had a story unfolding of some of the injustices
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Speaker 2: and downright just unlawful types of abuse when it comes
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Speaker 2: to things involved with hospice, and she wrote a book
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Speaker 2: about it. So on today's topic, what we're going to
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Speaker 2: be talking about I alluded to a little bit last
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Speaker 2: week is guardianship. Do any of you know what guardianship is?
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Speaker 2: What does guardianship mean? And for those of you that
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Speaker 2: have never been in the situation. Sometimes emergency situations arise
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Speaker 2: where one needs to become a guardian in terms of
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Speaker 2: helping someone through a legal process, and in the cases
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Speaker 2: that we're going to be kind of sharing discussion about
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Speaker 2: today is primarily in the healthcare situation. Guardianship in healthcare,
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Speaker 2: it's legal process and it's where the court will give
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Speaker 2: a person the power to make medical choices for someone
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Speaker 2: who cannot. This guardianship can be done, as we've been learning,
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Speaker 2: without full disclosure or knowledge of individuals at risk. And
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Speaker 2: why is that important today? Because we've spent five years
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Speaker 2: digging out of a plandemic, and in the plandemic, pandemic,
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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, all of our control,
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Speaker 2: our decision making, and even things that were done to
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Speaker 2: many of us out there in the world. We're against
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Speaker 2: legal advice, we're against known advice, we're against our own
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Speaker 2: choices and the concerns that come up with guardianship. It's
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Speaker 2: usually a concern where there's a loss of patient autonomy
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Speaker 2: and the ethical dilemmas that are posed out there for
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Speaker 2: all of us, myself as a clinician, and to avoid
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Speaker 2: delays and care. But sometimes those delays and care are
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Speaker 2: not necessarily a bad thing, but we want to make
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Speaker 2: sure you guys understand a little bit more about that.
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Speaker 2: And guardians are supposed to follow the patient known values,
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Speaker 2: but sometimes these are choices that the patient may not
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Speaker 2: want and that is what in lies our challenge is
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Speaker 2: in our discussion for today, I've got Marcia join her.
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Speaker 2: I know she's going to be popping up on our
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Speaker 2: screen shortly, so Marsha, welcome, Glad to have you back,
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Speaker 2: Thank you all much right, And we've got Brad Seiler
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Speaker 2: will also be joining and he's been involved in a
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Speaker 2: lot of the medical and healthcare situations and issues in
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Speaker 2: the past five years because having been a nurse, his
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Speaker 2: wife was actually involved in some of the hospital choices
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Speaker 2: that were being made for her against her will and
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Speaker 2: in him trying to be an advocate for her. So
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Speaker 2: Brad and Marsha myself were all part of the Betrayal
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Speaker 2: Project USA dot org organization, and in that organization, it's
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Speaker 2: a nonprofit. We try to bring really good and important
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Speaker 2: information to people to help understand the things that went
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Speaker 2: on during the pandemic and to avoid future flaws. It's
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Speaker 2: going to become even more and more paramount as you
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Speaker 2: start hearing some of the things that are going to
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Speaker 2: be reaching some have already reached, but the government, the
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Speaker 2: Senate levels and some discussion as well as some litigation.
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Speaker 2: But for today's topic, Welcome Brad, good to have you here.
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Speaker 2: Welcome Marsha. So I'd love to hear from you both.
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Speaker 2: You know, we're talking about guardianship and you know the
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Speaker 2: abuse of guardianship and Marcia may be parts of what
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Speaker 2: you've shared in the book that you've put out that
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Speaker 2: to really help and educate people on hospice and the
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Speaker 2: unknowns and the mystery behind some of the things that
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Speaker 2: we think safe. Can you share a little bit about
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Speaker 2: guardianship as you know and what's going on.
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Speaker 3: Sure, there are one hundred one point three million people
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Speaker 3: that are under guardianship and it is a fifty million,
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Speaker 3: fifty billion dollar industry. That's the amount of money that
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Speaker 3: they're being paid, and they are literally removing people's assets. Now,
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Speaker 3: there might be good guardians out there, but all of
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Speaker 3: the ones, again like hospice, the ones that we have
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Speaker 3: heard about are not necessarily good. And oftentimes the family
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Speaker 3: is not even told that their person, their loved one,
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Speaker 3: is put under guardianship. They just get a court order.
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Speaker 3: As Patty said earlier, that it is a court order guardianship,
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Speaker 3: which is different than a family person saying Okay, I'm
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Speaker 3: going to take care of my family and do what's
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Speaker 3: best for them. And sometimes the state will come in
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Speaker 3: and decide you're not doing what's best for them, and
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Speaker 3: they make the decision to appoint a guardian that doesn't
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Speaker 3: know your loved one, doesn't know their medical history, doesn't
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Speaker 3: know anything about them, and they start making not only
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Speaker 3: medical decisions for them, but financial and they charge for
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Speaker 3: absolutely everything that they do. So it is a bad
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Speaker 3: situation to get in. And as Gail and I were
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Speaker 3: talking on X spaces last Sunday, when a person gets
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Speaker 3: under guardianship and they call us for help, you know
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Speaker 3: what can I do about this? My loved one's put
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Speaker 3: under guardianship. That is a really difficult situation. All situations
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Speaker 3: are difficult. If your loved one is in a medical
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Speaker 3: hospital or they're in hospice, you do have choices that
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Speaker 3: you can make. You can remove them from the hospital,
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Speaker 3: you can revoke hospice. If they're in guardianship, your choices
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Speaker 3: are limited because that is a legal situation that you're
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Speaker 3: going to have to go to the courts to have
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Speaker 3: guardianship turned over to you from the guardian. And oftentimes
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Speaker 3: we've seen that, you know, I'm going to you know,
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Speaker 3: blanket this and say, oh, but the judges are involved,
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Speaker 3: and they are you know, whether they're getting kickbacks. There's
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Speaker 3: shenanigans in Pennsylvania that goes on judges there. We've heard
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Speaker 3: of those cases, and it's going to be difficult to
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Speaker 3: get your loved one out of that situation.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead, No.
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Speaker 2: This is fabulous, And you know, you're making me think
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Speaker 2: of so many different things. But like, let's go back
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Speaker 2: a few years when we were mandated, how many of
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Speaker 2: us tried to either provide help and support to our
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Speaker 2: loved ones in hospitals or those of us in the
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Speaker 2: hospitals tried to allow and get loved ones in to
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Speaker 2: help be that emotional support. But then also through all
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Speaker 2: the mandates of getting the vaccines. And the word that
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Speaker 2: really sticks out to me is with guardianship, it is
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Speaker 2: a legal process and it strips, it literally strips an
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Speaker 2: individual of multiple rights, almost all, if not all rights,
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Speaker 2: and under guardianship, they don't get to make choice and
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Speaker 2: so not only in healthcare and HU hospitals, but it's
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Speaker 2: so broad, folks, And I'm not an attorney, but I
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Speaker 2: can just tell you in some of the underpinnings of
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Speaker 2: things that I've learned, when people lose those rights in
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Speaker 2: the hospital, it can go far beyond. And this literally
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Speaker 2: determines where they live, where, if they could work, what
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Speaker 2: kind of medical care they get, and whether or not
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Speaker 2: they get medical care, whether they can eat, who can
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Speaker 2: visit them, all of that. So guardianship is a huge
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Speaker 2: control of big brother. We'd like to believe that it's
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Speaker 2: done in the right ways for the right reasons. But yeah, Marsha,
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Speaker 2: it's so all encompassing that imagine going back five years
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Speaker 2: and being told you can't win the hospital, you can't
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Speaker 2: provide direction for your loved one who's at risk.
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Speaker 4: It's stripped. That's right, It absolutely is.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if we're having sound with Brad,
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Speaker 2: Brad are you good? Can you hear us?
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Speaker 5: I can't.
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Speaker 2: We'll have to clear up, Brad.
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Speaker 4: We'll work on that.
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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, it's interesting the cases that we've heard,
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Speaker 2: we've talked about, and you know, things that are up
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Speaker 2: and coming, but you know, I guess as we share
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Speaker 2: this with folks who may or may not understand what
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Speaker 2: the guardianship is, any abuses or things that have gone wrong,
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Speaker 2: that you might want to comment on some of the
9:18
Speaker 2: things you've seen, and then I can share some things
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Speaker 2: as well.
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Speaker 4: But what have you seen out there, Marcia? Some of
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Speaker 4: the abuse?
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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the biggest cases, right after
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Speaker 3: my mom was murdered in twenty seventeen, I was reading
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Speaker 3: about a case with April Parks and she had over
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Speaker 3: one hundred what they call awards that she had been
9:40
Speaker 3: this is in Las Vegas, that she had been awarded
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Speaker 3: to take care of them. The problem is, and she
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Speaker 3: had two other people that were working with her, but
9:50
Speaker 3: they took care of them. They took them out of
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Speaker 3: their homes, They did not tell their loved ones, and
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Speaker 3: they were moved to facilities that their loved ones had
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Speaker 3: no idea where they were.
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Speaker 4: They did not buy proper care.
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Speaker 3: There were cases where they were being given opioids to
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Speaker 3: keep them, you know, quiet. There's been situations where they've
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Speaker 3: done movies on you know what's.
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Speaker 4: Going on with this.
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Speaker 3: Fortunately, April and her two cohorts were found out and
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Speaker 3: are now serving prison time, but not after they had
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Speaker 3: done damage to the families and they took their assets.
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Speaker 3: Not only did they do medical but they actually took
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Speaker 3: their homes. And in one case, Rudy I can't remember
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Speaker 3: his last name, Rennie and Rudy. Julie Belshee is their daughter,
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Speaker 3: and they were taken out of their home and she
10:42
Speaker 3: went over there and found just a notice on the
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Speaker 3: door that said they weren't there anymore.
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Speaker 4: And they put things out on the curve.
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Speaker 3: They sold their belongings, they put things they didn't want
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Speaker 3: out on the curve, and she just happened to go
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Speaker 3: by and see, you know, pictures that her mom loved, vases,
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Speaker 3: lamps and things like that that were of no monetary value,
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Speaker 3: but they have personal value. So Julie was able to
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Speaker 3: pick those up. Fortunately, she was able to get her
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Speaker 3: parents back after quite the legal battle.
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Speaker 4: But by then, you know, they.
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Speaker 3: Had suffered, you know, being under being held under this guardianship,
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Speaker 3: which is like a prison, and statistically the guardianship lasts
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Speaker 3: for like four point two years, is you know for
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Speaker 3: a person, That's what they have statistically said.
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Speaker 4: And with the baby boomers, Pattie, that.
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Speaker 3: Is going to be huge because the more people that
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Speaker 3: are getting to that age, then they can take control
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Speaker 3: of them. And it doesn't matter if you have children
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Speaker 3: that want to take care of you, or you have
11:49
Speaker 3: a spouse that you know is perfectly willing and capable
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Speaker 3: of taking care of their loved one. They still come
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Speaker 3: in if they feel like there's a monetary advantage for
11:59
Speaker 3: them to come in and take over that person everything.
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Speaker 3: And like you said earlier, the autonomy is completely removed.
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Speaker 3: They have no say so of what's going on in
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Speaker 3: their life. That's what's so scary about it. And you
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Speaker 3: know you mentioned that case, and I've heard of other cases,
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Speaker 3: and I've been involved from a medical standpoint and even
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Speaker 3: a psychiatric standpoint where if the parents aren't making decisions
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Speaker 3: that are found to be in line with what some
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Speaker 3: of the healthcare providers are recommending, that's when they enact
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Speaker 3: a guardianship. And as a parent, especially for our younger
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Speaker 3: generation of Generation X and Y and Z and all this,
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Speaker 3: you know, I don't think they realize the ramifications or
12:44
Speaker 3: have they ever been exposed to what happens if your
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Speaker 3: choices are now told you're not making the right choices
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Speaker 3: for your child, You're not making the right choices for
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Speaker 3: your parent and it's stripped. You know, we've kind of
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Speaker 3: come across a grassroots effort. I think, you know, our
13:00
Speaker 3: generations of growing up and learning about government, learning about
13:03
Speaker 3: about the law. And I hate to say, but if
13:06
Speaker 3: you've noticed, many of us have been talking about this
13:09
Speaker 3: recently and it kind of does add context. Let's talk
13:12
Speaker 3: about AI, let's talk about social media. There is kind
13:16
Speaker 3: of a crossroads of mixtures of younger generation folks eighteen
13:21
Speaker 3: to thirty six that either are kind of forward thinking,
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Speaker 3: picking up on the tails of what we've grown into
13:29
Speaker 3: from our life, you know, is Generation X, and they're
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Speaker 3: either progressive, driving good results, looking to do the right thing,
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Speaker 3: kind of having a conservative but practical view. And then
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Speaker 3: there's those that just want to put everything out there
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Speaker 3: for a feel good you see what I'm saying, and
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Speaker 3: they don't realize, they don't understand the ramifications of their choices,
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Speaker 3: how they vote, why they should get involved in things.
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Speaker 3: And when I think about there was a case of
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Speaker 3: a child in the west coast of Larda. Her parents
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Speaker 3: were they were stripped of their ability to make choices
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Speaker 3: for her. The hospital took on guardianship, put up a
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Speaker 3: guardian in place of her, and they were making medical
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Speaker 3: decisions that really were from the parents point of view
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Speaker 3: and from what they had reached out to the community.
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Speaker 3: They took their rights as parents to provide help for her.
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Speaker 3: So that's pretty scary, you know.
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Speaker 2: And my best experience is I know, when I was
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Speaker 2: a younger adult and my youngest son was having medical issues,
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Speaker 2: it was okay for me to disagree with the attending
14:34
Speaker 2: physician at the hospital and my son was ready to
14:38
Speaker 2: be discharged, But when I brought him home, we didn't agree,
14:40
Speaker 2: and I chose an alternative path of care. To see today, folks,
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Speaker 2: which you've got to be under the appreciation and understanding.
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Speaker 2: If you disagree and the hospital wants to take control,
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Speaker 2: they can, that's.
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Speaker 3: Right, and they say it's in the best interest of
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Speaker 3: the child for us to do this. And they can
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Speaker 3: either demand that they have certain medical procedures done or
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Speaker 3: they can refuse to have the procedures done. I mean,
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Speaker 3: it goes both ways. And what is more sacred than
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Speaker 3: a child's life and as their parents, you know, unless
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Speaker 3: you're a parent, and this is you know, now we're
15:22
Speaker 3: more into CPS instead of you know, child protective services. Yeah,
15:27
Speaker 3: instead of adult protective services. But if a child is
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Speaker 3: in their care of their loved ones and they truly
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Speaker 3: are abusing them, you know, whether it be mental, physical,
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Speaker 3: sexual abuse, they truly are doing that, then yes, I
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Speaker 3: believe that, you know, a child should be put over
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Speaker 3: the consideration of the parents, but you check to see
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Speaker 3: if there is another family member that can take care
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Speaker 3: of that and step in. But they're not necessarily doing that.
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Speaker 3: It goes to somebody who does not know that person.
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Speaker 3: And back to what you were saying with the adults.
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Speaker 3: Oftentimes the person who is put as the ward, they're
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Speaker 3: confident that they are capable of making their own decisions,
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Speaker 3: and their decision is taken away. Now, there is a
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Speaker 3: movie that's going to be shown the end of this
16:21
Speaker 3: month in Washington, d C. Under the Whistleblower Summit, and
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Speaker 3: it's called The Bad Guardian. And in this case, the
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Speaker 3: gentleman who they took, you know, because he had fallen
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Speaker 3: and then they just decided from the hospital, oh well,
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Speaker 3: he needs to be put under guardianship.
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Speaker 4: And that's what happened to him.
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Speaker 3: He was perfectly capable of making his own decisions as
16:44
Speaker 3: well as his daughter. But she was you know, in
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Speaker 3: a situation where her dad's all of his autonomy had
16:52
Speaker 3: been taken away and they sold his home. They had
16:55
Speaker 3: a yard cell, they were having everything out there, and
16:57
Speaker 3: she found out because a neighbor called her. And it's
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Speaker 3: just horrible that somebody could come in and take over
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Speaker 3: your life financially and medically and do what they whatever
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Speaker 3: they choose to do, and you know why because of money,
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Speaker 3: And sadly that you know, it's like with hospice, you know,
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Speaker 3: why are people why is their death hastened because of money?
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Speaker 3: It all comes down to a financial situation and humanity
17:27
Speaker 3: has got to become more important again. And I don't
17:32
Speaker 3: know when and how that's going to happen, but I
17:34
Speaker 3: believe that's our goal ultimately.
17:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm curious if this has shocked anybody
17:40
Speaker 2: out there who's listening in Feel free to text in,
17:42
Speaker 2: folks if you have questions or comments, or if you've
17:44
Speaker 2: experienced this yourself where your rights or the rights of
17:48
Speaker 2: your loved ones were taken away. But you know, I
17:50
Speaker 2: have to share that with with Brad and you, Marsha.
17:53
Speaker 2: It's so true and it does go back to the money.
17:56
Speaker 2: We talk about it, and it's interesting because I've got
17:59
Speaker 2: a couple of little excerpts here that have I had
18:01
Speaker 2: pulled up. And it's very true that hospital and health
18:04
Speaker 2: care facilities may sometimes push and I do say that
18:08
Speaker 2: word lightly push for guardianship too solve quick discharge problems
18:16
Speaker 2: or ensure payments. So Marsha's absolutely right as well. And
18:21
Speaker 2: what happens is it's an inappropriate loss of rights for
18:24
Speaker 2: the vulnerable patients. And see, I don't think people realize because,
18:28
Speaker 2: like you mentioned, and it's all in the words. In fact,
18:32
Speaker 2: the biggest words that stuck out to me during the
18:34
Speaker 2: pandemic was we have to receive the guidance. We're getting
18:38
Speaker 2: the guidance from the CDC, we're getting the guidance from Pauci,
18:42
Speaker 2: And it's all in the wordings. So under the guise
18:45
Speaker 2: of we're doing what's best the best interest for the patient,
18:48
Speaker 2: it's really all about the money. And when you guys
18:51
Speaker 2: think about it, look at what they just exposed months
18:53
Speaker 2: ago in Minnesota about the daycare, like it became a joke,
18:56
Speaker 2: but look at how amazing that was to uncover that.
19:00
Speaker 2: Do you all think anybody does anything for nothing out
19:04
Speaker 2: of the kindness of their heart when you go to
19:06
Speaker 2: a operational institution, like you can't get treated in a
19:09
Speaker 2: hospital unless you provide a credit card. That's right, right,
19:13
Speaker 2: So do you think if you're a loved one and
19:16
Speaker 2: I've been part of this where we've got patients that
19:20
Speaker 2: are sitting for one hundred, two hundred or more days
19:23
Speaker 2: over a year, getting those people to move into somewhere else.
19:28
Speaker 2: I've witnessed it myself. I'm not the decision maker of
19:31
Speaker 2: that because then it gets in the hands of the
19:33
Speaker 2: hospital attorneys. So my role as a leader in that particular,
19:38
Speaker 2: you know, situation.
19:39
Speaker 4: Was part of a group.
19:41
Speaker 2: I always spoke up and tried to give some kind
19:44
Speaker 2: of credence to have we exhausted all options. Have we
19:47
Speaker 2: not included the family member. But at the end of
19:50
Speaker 2: the day, we're back to show me the money. Vaccines
19:53
Speaker 2: for money, you know, COVID, you know the pandemic, all
19:58
Speaker 2: it was driven for money to push the back scenes
20:00
Speaker 2: and pushed the drugs.
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Speaker 4: Here we are hospice.
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Speaker 2: Marcia. If you want to kind of give a little snippet,
20:07
Speaker 2: you know, just tell a little bit about your mom,
20:09
Speaker 2: the whole hospice, what you uncovered.
20:12
Speaker 3: Well, my situation is a little different because my dad
20:15
Speaker 3: was hospice chaplain, which is one of the reasons why
20:19
Speaker 3: we believed my mother would be safe. But she wasn't
20:22
Speaker 3: and other people are not. And they literally tricked them
20:27
Speaker 3: into going into the hospice respite facility so that my
20:31
Speaker 3: dad could get rest, and they took him there. He
20:34
Speaker 3: had a room across the hall from my mom, and
20:36
Speaker 3: they immediately started giving her morphine and atavan, and they
20:41
Speaker 3: gave her one hundred micrograms a fentanyl, which one hundred
20:45
Speaker 3: times stronger than morphine, and there's three together, which it
20:50
Speaker 3: says in drugs dot com and in the Beers List
20:54
Speaker 3: b E E R S it says, don't do that,
20:57
Speaker 3: don't add benzodiazepines along with narcotics. But that's what they did,
21:03
Speaker 3: and they put her in a coma, despite us trying
21:06
Speaker 3: to take her to the hospital to get her hydrated.
21:09
Speaker 3: They talk to us out of it by being so sweet.
21:12
Speaker 3: You don't want your mom to die like that, do you, sweetie.
21:16
Speaker 3: It's a horrible way to die. They manipulate and they
21:19
Speaker 3: control the situation. And because we don't know that as
21:24
Speaker 3: the average person, we don't research drugs, and our family
21:29
Speaker 3: fall into that trap and they die because of our ignorance.
21:34
Speaker 3: And I don't mean ignorance in you know, a bad way,
21:38
Speaker 3: but it is we are ignorant in knowledge is power,
21:41
Speaker 3: and you don't know what.
21:42
Speaker 4: You don't know.
21:43
Speaker 3: So by June the seventeenth, I'm sorry, June the twentieth
21:48
Speaker 3: and twenty seventeen, so nine years ago, and there's not
21:52
Speaker 3: a day goes by that I don't remember that, that
21:55
Speaker 3: I don't recall it, and that I'm not angry about it,
22:00
Speaker 3: hurt by it because I am. You just don't get
22:02
Speaker 3: over that it's a murder. And because hospice is given
22:07
Speaker 3: carte blaunch, they don't accept that. So that you know,
22:10
Speaker 3: that's why I became an advocate for the elderly and
22:14
Speaker 3: trying to, you know, provide information and resources that I
22:18
Speaker 3: wrote the book Betrayed my hospice and healthcare stories from
22:23
Speaker 3: the deathbed. So I'd like to share something when we
22:27
Speaker 3: were on X spaces last Saturday, and I think this
22:30
Speaker 3: is important. This kind of gives you, you know, the
22:34
Speaker 3: differences in this right. There was one lady there whose
22:38
Speaker 3: mom was under guardianship and she was fighting to get
22:41
Speaker 3: her mom back, and she thought was fighting through the
22:44
Speaker 3: legal system and she was not getting any success, and
22:48
Speaker 3: she was told that after today she was not going
22:52
Speaker 3: to be able to see her mother anymore. Her mother
22:54
Speaker 3: had dementia and she wasn't going to be able to
22:57
Speaker 3: see her anymore. So she decided to take her mom.
23:01
Speaker 3: I believe she had like three hundred dollars on her
23:04
Speaker 3: because she couldn't.
23:05
Speaker 4: Go, you know, to the bank.
23:07
Speaker 3: Then this was like, you know, you've got to take
23:08
Speaker 3: action right now, and she moved her mother to Greece,
23:12
Speaker 3: which she's living there today. They are still collecting charging
23:17
Speaker 3: money for her mother every single month even though her
23:21
Speaker 3: mother's not there. She cannot come back to the States.
23:24
Speaker 3: Her mother's still alive. She did save her, she can't
23:27
Speaker 3: come back to the States, but they're still raping the
23:31
Speaker 3: mother's assets, still taking her assets. And she was on
23:35
Speaker 3: you know talking, which you know, was very you know,
23:40
Speaker 3: sad story but you know, kind of had a good.
23:42
Speaker 4: Ending more or less. But she can't come back to
23:45
Speaker 4: the States.
23:46
Speaker 3: And another lady who was talking and giving her story.
23:50
Speaker 3: She tried to go to the legal system but didn't win,
23:53
Speaker 3: and her mother wound up being remaining in the guardianship
23:58
Speaker 3: and she died. So you know, it is a bad situation.
24:04
Speaker 3: Sometimes people can get their loved ones out. Another lady
24:08
Speaker 3: who did get her mom out and her mom's living
24:10
Speaker 3: with her. She went through the legal system, and she
24:13
Speaker 3: was going to be at the whistleblower summit at the
24:16
Speaker 3: end of this month, you know, talking about her story.
24:19
Speaker 3: So it's you know, the best thing is to try
24:22
Speaker 3: to keep your loved one out of that situation. And
24:27
Speaker 3: you know, I don't really know how to tell you
24:28
Speaker 3: to do that, but don't get on the radar.
24:31
Speaker 2: I mean you, you know, avoid that. No, I agree,
24:36
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Do we have your sound numbers? Your mic
24:38
Speaker 2: looks muted in front of me. Can you can you
24:41
Speaker 2: give us a shout or try to unmute your mind? Yea, yeah,
24:46
Speaker 2: it's as muted, so maybe try to there we.
24:50
Speaker 4: Go, try let me hear me now, yeah, jump in here.
24:55
Speaker 2: Tell you tell us some thoughts, anything.
25:00
Speaker 5: Go through the phone. Let me Is this better? You
25:03
Speaker 5: get in ahead? Rely, so listen to all. This takes
25:11
Speaker 5: me back to can you hear me? Am? I still?
25:16
Speaker 4: Yes?
25:19
Speaker 5: The takes me back to socializing trained and I was
25:23
Speaker 5: agency emergency room nurse. That's how I was trained. And
25:29
Speaker 5: I I was was trained to pay my patients, patients
25:34
Speaker 5: I was responsible for, had had autonomy and they were
25:37
Speaker 5: able to make decisions. That myself and the caregivers provided
25:43
Speaker 5: the patients the information that they needed and and the good,
25:48
Speaker 5: the bad, and the ugly, and that they made decisions
25:51
Speaker 5: for themselves. I'm afraid that since the advent of Obamacare,
25:57
Speaker 5: which I left healthcare long before Obamacare became the thing,
26:02
Speaker 5: that socialized medicine is the practice that we're facing in
26:06
Speaker 5: today's healthcare system. And it started out as community community healthcare,
26:13
Speaker 5: but in fact it's actually socialized medicine where you have
26:16
Speaker 5: fixed costs and certain outcomes are allowable and other outcomes
26:22
Speaker 5: are not allowable. And it's really a loss of autonomy
26:27
Speaker 5: between a person and their healthcare provider. You now have
26:34
Speaker 5: third parties driving initiatives with patients and and patients are
26:42
Speaker 5: no longer treated as a part of the process. It's
26:46
Speaker 5: it's only between doctors and insurance. It's it's it all
26:51
Speaker 5: goes back to the money factor. It's all about the money,
26:56
Speaker 5: and the money is they want predictable outcomes. That's that's
27:03
Speaker 5: really what they're looking for. And when I was a
27:05
Speaker 5: practicing nurse, it was called the practice of healthcare because
27:12
Speaker 5: nobody's created equally, and different things work for different people,
27:17
Speaker 5: and everybody has different ideas of pain and different responses
27:26
Speaker 5: according to how their their physiology works. And today's medicine
27:33
Speaker 5: is cookie cutter. It's very cookie cutter that it follows
27:38
Speaker 5: protocols and if if a practitioner applies the wrong protocol,
27:46
Speaker 5: once the protocol is initiated, once they apply the wrong protocol,
27:51
Speaker 5: then it's protocol driven and there's no interruptions in that care.
27:56
Speaker 5: During COVID, what we saw in Betrayal Project, as we've
28:01
Speaker 5: talked to people who've lost their loved ones, which is
28:06
Speaker 5: a huge betrayal and people that survived the protocols is
28:11
Speaker 5: that the survivors there was a break in the protocol,
28:16
Speaker 5: something caused the protocol to be broken. The standard of
28:22
Speaker 5: care was broken, and the people that survived had a break.
28:29
Speaker 5: The people that died. Ultimately the full protocol was applied.
28:33
Speaker 5: And so you know, for me, my wife was in
28:37
Speaker 5: the hospital, nothing made sense to me as far as
28:41
Speaker 5: what the practitioners were telling me as their therapies and
28:46
Speaker 5: their choices of treatment, and they weren't letting me into
28:50
Speaker 5: the hospital to do my own assessment. And in today's world,
28:55
Speaker 5: medical professionals assessed by machine. They let the machines tell
29:02
Speaker 5: them what they're facing. They don't do their own assessment,
29:07
Speaker 5: which requires the five senses, lookless and feel, touch, smell.
29:12
Speaker 5: They go by the chart. What is in the chart?
29:16
Speaker 5: If I order a ct what is the ct SC
29:18
Speaker 5: scan say? What the labs say? What does this say?
29:21
Speaker 5: What does that say? And there's no contact with it's
29:25
Speaker 5: it's the dehumanization of healthcare that since since a human
29:31
Speaker 5: is so unpredictable, just why God made it, that we
29:36
Speaker 5: we have to take the unpredictability out of the equation
29:39
Speaker 5: and make it more predictable. And so this is a
29:44
Speaker 5: this is a huge loss for America in the United
29:47
Speaker 5: States when it comes to the healthcare systems, which is,
29:51
Speaker 5: you know, everything from natural birth to natural natural death.
29:56
Speaker 5: That no longer do we have natural conception and no
30:01
Speaker 5: longer do we have natural death. The two the two
30:04
Speaker 5: outliers are eliminated in an effort to try to control costs,
30:11
Speaker 5: to ensure predictable outcomes. These are all scientific words that
30:17
Speaker 5: are used that mean nothing when it comes to the
30:20
Speaker 5: practice of healthcare, and science is no longer a practice
30:26
Speaker 5: of science. We heard many times during COVID that one
30:32
Speaker 5: one individual is the science. That I am the science,
30:37
Speaker 5: and I know and that and science has become the god,
30:42
Speaker 5: the it's god in the practice of medicine. And so
30:50
Speaker 5: those are that's my take on all this, And and
30:52
Speaker 5: I'm afraid I can trace it back to Obamacare and
30:57
Speaker 5: and the transition to third party decision makers.
31:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.
31:05
Speaker 2: I think that's where it was the most impacted or
31:08
Speaker 2: greatly impacted. The change took place. I saw a little
31:12
Speaker 2: bit before that. It was kind of going in a
31:13
Speaker 2: weird direction because when they started to regulate with DRGs,
31:18
Speaker 2: they did the DRGs, which is the diagnose related groups
31:21
Speaker 2: to start to quantify and qualify so that they could
31:25
Speaker 2: pay as little as possible to produce outcomes, because costs
31:28
Speaker 2: were extravagance when somebody would stay five days to deliver
31:32
Speaker 2: a baby.
31:33
Speaker 4: We've got a couple of.
31:34
Speaker 2: Questions, and I wanted to dive into that because one
31:37
Speaker 2: of the questions so important to what you just were
31:40
Speaker 2: talking about, too, Brad. But how can the court's override
31:43
Speaker 2: family in all cases? Well, let's think back to the pandemic.
31:47
Speaker 2: Our rights were stripped. I myself was a survivor from
31:52
Speaker 2: the pandemic, having been in with COVID and having had
31:55
Speaker 2: room desevere and so being able to speak out on that.
31:58
Speaker 2: I kind of have both sides of the hospital healthcare
32:02
Speaker 2: side from an executive level and then the patient side
32:05
Speaker 2: with just the disastrous attempt of trying to control and
32:09
Speaker 2: regulate through the protocols that, yeah, they deviated from their
32:12
Speaker 2: own practices and how could that be? So imagine like
32:16
Speaker 2: back in COVID for Heath asked the question, how can
32:20
Speaker 2: they override? Well, when you went in, you were all
32:22
Speaker 2: treated as if you were COVID positive or going to
32:25
Speaker 2: be weaned out to be treated COVID positive. But pretty
32:28
Speaker 2: darn sure ninety percent of the patients were all COVID
32:31
Speaker 2: something during that time frame, and they only got the
32:34
Speaker 2: care that the hospital was willing to deliver. So when
32:37
Speaker 2: other alternatives came in and we tried to bring in
32:40
Speaker 2: other potential protocols using hydroxylorquhen ibermectin, vitamin B one ivs,
32:47
Speaker 2: those kinds of things, the protocol was to basically dehydrate
32:51
Speaker 2: because we didn't want to over saturate these people and
32:55
Speaker 2: then medicate not decrease inflammation. So you medicate, dehydrate and
33:00
Speaker 2: then you you know, you dip them under from you know,
33:05
Speaker 2: an anesthetic point of view or like that, and they
33:08
Speaker 2: lose all control, all rights, and families kept outside the hospital.
33:12
Speaker 2: So therein lies mostly how these people were treated, almost
33:16
Speaker 2: with the restrictive guardianship, the watch of the hospital employees.
33:20
Speaker 2: That's what guardianship turns into. And yeah, remember the healthcare
33:25
Speaker 2: workers can be extremely compelling, like Brad, you were saying,
33:28
Speaker 2: they talk to medical organ medical jargon, lingo, and when
33:33
Speaker 2: they speak the lingo to a judge, it's compelling. So
33:36
Speaker 2: how does a lay person or family compete unless they
33:40
Speaker 2: can get a good attorney And time is of the
33:43
Speaker 2: essence because they can get these guardianships very quickly. The
33:47
Speaker 2: other piece was I think Gene asked, the courts can
33:52
Speaker 2: actually take your ability to talk for your love went away.
33:55
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's kind of what what we're sharing,
33:57
Speaker 2: and they very much can. And then he had asked
34:00
Speaker 2: if a patient can talk for themselves, can they make
34:03
Speaker 2: choices generally up to a point, but if you don't
34:06
Speaker 2: agree with what they're saying at some point they can
34:10
Speaker 2: and Marsha, I mean you're living proof, Brad, you're living proof.
34:13
Speaker 2: You were advocates for your loved ones. They made things
34:17
Speaker 2: sounds so, oh no, this is a better choice, or
34:20
Speaker 2: oh no, you're incorrect, we're going to do this.
34:23
Speaker 4: So they do.
34:24
Speaker 2: They're very slick and stealth about it, and it comes
34:28
Speaker 2: down to a number of things. Do we want to
34:30
Speaker 2: believe that there's compassion. Do we want to believe that
34:33
Speaker 2: they're there for the right reasons. I would love to
34:36
Speaker 2: still believe that, you know, I spent forty years in it,
34:39
Speaker 2: but I've seen so much as a part of that. No,
34:43
Speaker 2: a lot of times they're doing it because they don't
34:46
Speaker 2: want to see people in the hospital longer than they're
34:48
Speaker 2: going to get reimbursed. So if you cross over that line,
34:51
Speaker 2: they're going to find ways to get you packed up
34:54
Speaker 2: and ready to do something else, even at the cost
34:57
Speaker 2: of good hospital or good clinical decision making.
35:01
Speaker 3: You know, well to the answer to the question, first off, somebody,
35:07
Speaker 3: how can they do that? They declare the person incompetent.
35:11
Speaker 3: That's the first step is the person has to be
35:14
Speaker 3: declared and competent they can't take care of their own
35:17
Speaker 3: medical needs or their financial needs, and then a guardian
35:21
Speaker 3: is appointed. If you look at Wendy Williams her situation.
35:26
Speaker 3: She is continually saying that she is capable of making
35:29
Speaker 3: her own decisions, but they have declared that she has
35:33
Speaker 3: frontolobal dementia and that she's not capable of making decision.
35:38
Speaker 3: So that's the first thing, and you have to have
35:41
Speaker 3: a doctor that says that. The problem also is if
35:46
Speaker 3: you have two family members that are fighting amongst each other.
35:51
Speaker 3: In the case of Twila Apgar, both her daughters were
35:55
Speaker 3: fighting and one wanted her put into an institution and
35:58
Speaker 3: wanted hospice to come in, while Abnovan did not want
36:02
Speaker 3: that to occur, and they were fighting, and they had
36:05
Speaker 3: a court date scheduled for her April to become her
36:09
Speaker 3: guardian so that she could protect her and court date
36:12
Speaker 3: was scheduled I think on January the third. She died
36:17
Speaker 3: on January the first because they gave her an overdose
36:20
Speaker 3: of the drugs and hospice. So the first thing is
36:24
Speaker 3: they have to be declared and competent.
36:27
Speaker 2: And that's that's not as hard as you all might think.
36:31
Speaker 2: It's difficult, but it's not as harnagement I think, especially
36:36
Speaker 2: you know, when I think back to how just even
36:39
Speaker 2: sick I was, I was really struggling to kind of
36:42
Speaker 2: keep my faculties about myself because I was really sick.
36:45
Speaker 2: But I was sick. I wasn't demented. I was sick,
36:48
Speaker 2: I wasn't incurable. But they were beginning to make decisions
36:52
Speaker 2: for things of treatment that I should or shouldn't have.
36:55
Speaker 2: They decided if I was going to get food or water,
36:58
Speaker 2: you know, nourishment or an ivy, and they decided what
37:02
Speaker 2: medications I should have coming in and making those determinations.
37:06
Speaker 2: And there are times when people are just in such
37:09
Speaker 2: an acutely debilitated state, the support and guidance of the
37:13
Speaker 2: loved one can be helpful. But imagine when they locked
37:17
Speaker 2: him out. You really, my husband was never contacted by
37:21
Speaker 2: a physician, nurse, or otherwise, and we both worked for
37:24
Speaker 2: the same hospital. He was banned from the ICO, and
37:28
Speaker 2: you would think there would be some conversation with them,
37:32
Speaker 2: knowing that he was my next of kin, my most
37:34
Speaker 2: immediate next of kin. So imagine if it could happen
37:38
Speaker 2: to me, if it could happen to Marsha's family, it
37:41
Speaker 2: happened to Brad's family. Remember all these things have happened.
37:44
Speaker 2: They want us to keep quiet about it. But when
37:46
Speaker 2: people start talking, this is what happens. The stories get out,
37:50
Speaker 2: the word gets out, and now we go ooh, this
37:53
Speaker 2: isn't just a one and done. And the stories Marsha
37:56
Speaker 2: shared and the things Brad's explained, now we're all finding it.
38:00
Speaker 4: We were all.
38:00
Speaker 2: Sort of isolated. But all these things were done to many,
38:05
Speaker 2: not just one or two.
38:06
Speaker 3: Right, and before somebody asked the question, because I was
38:09
Speaker 3: just thinking about this. You have power of attorney, a
38:13
Speaker 3: court appointed guardian, Trump's power of attorney. So even if
38:19
Speaker 3: you have that document in place and somebody a guardian
38:22
Speaker 3: goes and says, oh, this person's not capable of making
38:26
Speaker 3: their decisions, or they don't agree with the decisions that
38:29
Speaker 3: the family member or the person is making, they can
38:33
Speaker 3: go in court appointed guardian.
38:35
Speaker 4: Trump's the power of attorney.
38:38
Speaker 2: We got two new questions. I don't know, do you either,
38:40
Speaker 2: You guys want to take Jake's question, and Brad, you
38:43
Speaker 2: have a good point. You might want to share that
38:45
Speaker 2: as well.
38:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, so can you hear me?
38:48
Speaker 4: Yeah?
38:48
Speaker 2: Yeah?
38:49
Speaker 5: So here's something people don't realize is that once you're
38:56
Speaker 5: status pain medication and zeolytics things like that, you are
39:04
Speaker 5: no longer capable of making decisions for yourself. However, during COVID,
39:10
Speaker 5: a strange thing happened. Is a lot of medical records
39:15
Speaker 5: reflect that while people were medicated and even on ventilators,
39:21
Speaker 5: that they were approving therapies for themselves, which is contradictory
39:27
Speaker 5: to what I was trained to do. So it's very
39:31
Speaker 5: because there was no advocate there, these people were able
39:36
Speaker 5: to get away with these very suspicious activities to push
39:42
Speaker 5: the narrative. And so just people need to keep My
39:46
Speaker 5: wife told the doctor that she was not going to
39:50
Speaker 5: approve any therapies unless it went through me first, and
39:56
Speaker 5: so she stayed lucid, she stayed her ability to make decisions,
40:02
Speaker 5: stayed intact because they didn't give her anything that she
40:07
Speaker 5: didn't already approve. One problem we had was we had
40:12
Speaker 5: to consent to a deadly medication just to get our
40:16
Speaker 5: priests in to give her last rites, which never in
40:21
Speaker 5: the history of healthcare has that been I mean that
40:25
Speaker 5: that's coercion. They coerced, They coerced her to take a
40:31
Speaker 5: medication just to allow her priest in and that is
40:35
Speaker 5: unheard of. And again this is the dehumanization of the process.
40:42
Speaker 5: And so you find these situations where they tried to
40:46
Speaker 5: take the person out of the equation, and it becomes
40:51
Speaker 5: a very legalistic approach because most doctors today are taught
41:00
Speaker 5: based on algorithms, not their own personal practice and their
41:10
Speaker 5: own personal standard of care, and so they're using what
41:14
Speaker 5: will hold up in court as the reason they make decisions.
41:21
Speaker 5: And that was very evident in the Gray Shara case.
41:25
Speaker 5: If nobody's familiar with the Gray Shara case is there
41:29
Speaker 5: was a competent advocate for her and they chose to
41:36
Speaker 5: force the advocate out. And this goes back to when
41:40
Speaker 5: you have competing advocates. One is very pro medical approach,
41:46
Speaker 5: one is very pro patient approach. What they do is
41:49
Speaker 5: they'll go towards the people that agree with them, and
41:53
Speaker 5: the person that's in favor of the patient's right to
41:57
Speaker 5: choose is driven out, and at times this overrides a
42:02
Speaker 5: power of attorney.
42:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting you mentioned those points too,
42:07
Speaker 2: because the American Bar Association puts out information and it
42:12
Speaker 2: speaks to this with healthcare and decision no guardianship requests
42:15
Speaker 2: from healthcare systems for patients have been identified as lacking
42:19
Speaker 2: decision making capacity.
42:22
Speaker 4: And why this is.
42:24
Speaker 2: A struggle is because if a patient refuses to consent
42:27
Speaker 2: to a recommend a discharge plan. This is when they
42:30
Speaker 2: get aggressive. They also talk about lack of a stable
42:33
Speaker 2: care provider or care settings to the person due to
42:36
Speaker 2: a lack of beds, lack of staff to manage complex
42:41
Speaker 2: medical or behavioral needs. And they also talk about the
42:44
Speaker 2: need for discharge imminently, the perceptions of lack of time
42:48
Speaker 2: to work through alternatives with the belief that guardianship is
42:52
Speaker 2: a faster, more efficient, simpler way to solve the problem.
42:56
Speaker 2: And then last, the nursing home or healthcare or hospice
43:01
Speaker 2: facility will not accept the patient into care without the
43:05
Speaker 2: guardian as the legal decision maker. When you hear these things,
43:09
Speaker 2: I hope this has a little bit of a theme
43:12
Speaker 2: or a ring to your ears, because it comes back
43:14
Speaker 2: to what Marcia and I had said at the beginning
43:16
Speaker 2: of the show. It comes back to dollars and cents
43:19
Speaker 2: and speed of efficiency to get you in an off
43:22
Speaker 2: their plate. We want the problem gone. They want the
43:25
Speaker 2: most amount of maximized dollars achieved without the work and
43:30
Speaker 2: the dream the financial system, which is what you said, Brad,
43:34
Speaker 2: socialized medicine. It's very scary, very scary.
43:38
Speaker 3: Well, something that both of you have talked about is
43:42
Speaker 3: having the advocate in the facility with you, whereas your position, Patty,
43:48
Speaker 3: you weren't, your husband wasn't allowed, and Brad, you know,
43:51
Speaker 3: you weren't allowed when Gail was in there. And there
43:54
Speaker 3: is a proposal a bill by Irma Rappaport and that
44:00
Speaker 3: bill is Hr six seven sixty six, and it's the
44:04
Speaker 3: Essential Caregivers Act that they're trying to push forward in
44:08
Speaker 3: case we have another pandemic in the future, that an
44:13
Speaker 3: advocate can be in the room with a patient regardless
44:18
Speaker 3: of what circumstances they say. And they're trying to get
44:22
Speaker 3: that bill passed because that's what we need, just the
44:26
Speaker 3: same as having you know, cameras in rooms for people
44:31
Speaker 3: in the nursing homes and it you know, that kind
44:34
Speaker 3: of goes away from the guardianship because the guardians would
44:37
Speaker 3: not allow that. But we have a responsibility and obligation
44:42
Speaker 3: to protect the people that cannot protect themselves, whether they
44:46
Speaker 3: are the young, or they are the elderly or the disabled.
44:50
Speaker 3: It is our responsibility to speak out and to tell
44:54
Speaker 3: the truth.
44:55
Speaker 4: And if you don't know.
44:56
Speaker 3: Something, you can't prepare for it. So that's why I say,
45:01
Speaker 3: knowledge is power, and you have to research, you know,
45:05
Speaker 3: research the drugs, research. You know what happens if your
45:10
Speaker 3: loved one goes into a facility.
45:13
Speaker 4: My dad had fallen at my sister's house.
45:16
Speaker 3: He lived with me after my mom was murdered, and
45:19
Speaker 3: he had fallen and he was at the hospital and
45:22
Speaker 3: they said, well, where do you live and he said,
45:24
Speaker 3: I don't have a home. Well, to him, he thought
45:27
Speaker 3: he was being clever, he was being funny because you know,
45:31
Speaker 3: we had sold his house after mom was murdered and
45:34
Speaker 3: he had moved in with my husband and me. But
45:37
Speaker 3: to those people, if you say something like that just
45:40
Speaker 3: in jest, they could say, oh, this man doesn't have
45:44
Speaker 3: a home and he's with his daughter and he doesn't
45:47
Speaker 3: know where he lives, and he could be declared incoonfident.
45:50
Speaker 4: So it is very careful when you were.
45:52
Speaker 3: In a medical place that you'd be cautious what you
45:57
Speaker 3: say or what your loved one says. It's unfortun But
46:00
Speaker 3: the fact is there are vultures and they can look
46:04
Speaker 3: for anything, any weakness. Like Brad said, to bring you
46:08
Speaker 3: in because they'll get money off of it. You reminded me,
46:11
Speaker 3: as go ahead, No, go ahead, well, hospice goes in
46:16
Speaker 3: the hospitals and they're trolling for people that may be
46:20
Speaker 3: at end of life.
46:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exactly what they do between the I lost
46:26
Speaker 2: my thought on that one, but they do. They go
46:28
Speaker 2: in there and they are offering their services as a
46:30
Speaker 2: way for pushing patients out the door a little faster
46:33
Speaker 2: and to kind of get them into their clutches. But
46:34
Speaker 2: funny enough, this is a little tidbit I'll share back
46:38
Speaker 2: when the pandemic first hit. Let's think about this.
46:40
Speaker 4: For a minute.
46:41
Speaker 2: I worked in a faith based organization, one of the
46:45
Speaker 2: largest ones in the country with pinnings in other countries.
46:49
Speaker 2: This organization, as they did an elimination off the payroll
46:54
Speaker 2: of unessential staff because they were closing departments. Guests who
46:59
Speaker 2: want of the the first apartments they removed off the payroll.
47:03
Speaker 2: The clergy and the nuns. Think about that. Ethics, morals,
47:09
Speaker 2: faith based and because they were not, at that moment
47:13
Speaker 2: in time, deemed non essential. There would have been an
47:17
Speaker 2: advocate of morality and faith regardless of your beliefs. Folks,
47:20
Speaker 2: think about that for a minute. You let the big
47:23
Speaker 2: pharma and the infectious disease doctors run the organization to
47:27
Speaker 2: drive money through this CMS for reimbursement for this catastrophe
47:33
Speaker 2: of a pandemic and money funneled through for a wide
47:36
Speaker 2: open door of room de severe and the ventilators and
47:39
Speaker 2: all the things that went along with it. You have
47:42
Speaker 2: documentation based on all the depths, but you have no
47:45
Speaker 2: documentation on who did you save, what made a difference.
47:49
Speaker 2: You have a closed mind about alternative solutions, and then
47:52
Speaker 2: you put the cherry on top and drive in a vaccine,
47:56
Speaker 2: which I will also add as we close this particular
47:59
Speaker 2: faith based organisation, there's two. One of them actually made
48:02
Speaker 2: it a mandate for vaccines, but a waiver just sign
48:07
Speaker 2: for an affidavit that the providers only had to sign
48:11
Speaker 2: they got the vaccine, but all the staff how to
48:14
Speaker 2: provide proof injection that they got the vaccine and they
48:18
Speaker 2: got away with it. That's why we want you guys
48:20
Speaker 2: to know the truth. So we are here. I want
48:23
Speaker 2: to thank you Marsh and Brad.
48:25
Speaker 4: Thank you.
48:25
Speaker 2: Anybody have like ten seconds you want to share anything.
48:28
Speaker 2: How do we get your book Marsha?
48:30
Speaker 3: It's on Amazon trade by Hospice and Healthcare Stories from
48:34
Speaker 3: the Deathbed. And I want to add one other thing
48:37
Speaker 3: there is a website out there in NASDA. It's National
48:41
Speaker 3: Association for Guardianship Abuse and there are hundreds of stories
48:46
Speaker 3: out there for people that have lost loved ones under
48:50
Speaker 3: guardianship abuse. So that's a resource that you can go
48:55
Speaker 3: to as well. Thank you very much. Got your Paton
48:59
Speaker 3: and Brad Betrayal Project USA dot org. Last words from you, Oh,
49:04
Speaker 3: we've got I think.
49:07
Speaker 5: I think we have to be our own best advocates.
49:10
Speaker 2: We have to.
49:10
Speaker 5: We have to train ourselves because nobody's going to be
49:14
Speaker 5: there for us. As a nurse, I was the primary
49:16
Speaker 5: advocate in a healthcare setting for my patients. That is
49:20
Speaker 5: no longer the case for nurses. They are not the
49:23
Speaker 5: primary advocate in a healthcare setting. So we need to
49:26
Speaker 5: become our own best advocate.
49:28
Speaker 2: Thank you both very much. We'll have more to come
49:30
Speaker 2: on this topic. We've got lots more. We've got some
49:32
Speaker 2: really good information coming out in the coming weeks. We've
49:35
Speaker 2: got a really good campaign with Senator round Johnson. I'm
49:38
Speaker 2: hoping we'll have more to share on the next podcast
49:40
Speaker 2: or two about that. More to come, folks. We're blowing
49:43
Speaker 2: the whistle, We're blowing the lid off things. Thanks again
49:45
Speaker 2: for being here. We'll see y'all next Thursday, Wellness and
49:48
Speaker 2: Censor with Doctor Patty G. Thanks guys, stay tuned, thank you.
50:01
Speaker 5: The two have ha