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Don't Apply for Medicaid on Your Own! · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight six six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better?
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  Speaker 2: You, I'm great? Thank you. What do you have for
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  Speaker 2: us this week?
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  Speaker 3: A couple of things. We've got a Massachusetts how about that?
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  Speaker 3: We're sticking around here a Supreme Court case dealing with lians,
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  Speaker 3: Medicaid leans, a lifetime lean and at death lian estate recovery.
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  Speaker 3: How long do you have to file your lian? If
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  Speaker 3: you file late, does Massachusetts still win? How does the
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  Speaker 3: MUPC Massachusetts Uniform Probate Code work. All that stuff is
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  Speaker 3: going to be addressed in here, along with lots of
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  Speaker 3: lessons on applying for medicaid. And lastly, a real life story.
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  Speaker 3: This is one where the family came in there seventy
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  Speaker 3: five and seventy nine year's age years old, and they
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  Speaker 3: came in after they had already spent one hundred and
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  Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars on the nursing home because they were
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  Speaker 3: told by the nursing home that they were ineligible for
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  Speaker 3: Medicaid because they had too many assets. Can you imagine, folks,
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  Speaker 3: time and time again till I told them, yes, you
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  Speaker 3: have a lot of assets, but you're a married couple,
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  Speaker 3: and you have a healthy spouse, and there's a lot
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  Speaker 3: of last minute things we can do with the different
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  Speaker 3: kinds of assets you have countable versus non countable assets.
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  Speaker 3: They didn't tell you that. They didn't tell you how
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  Speaker 3: you can transfer assets to spouses how you can buy
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  Speaker 3: annuities to protect assets for the healthy spouse, to prevent
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  Speaker 3: spousal impoverishment.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, folks, now, what they told them is will
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  Speaker 2: help you apply for free just as soon as you
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  Speaker 2: spend down all.
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  Speaker 3: Of all your money. Right So, folks, I will explain
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  Speaker 3: to you what we did for this family and how
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  Speaker 3: we got them eligible for Medicaid even there was no
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  Speaker 3: planning done. But folks, I'm here to tell you about
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  Speaker 3: this guide for the month unlocking the power of Medicaid
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  Speaker 3: irrevocable trust so that you wouldn't have to deal with
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  Speaker 3: these last minute techniques. Yes they're there, and the same
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  Speaker 3: thing with the Massachusetts case I'm going to talk about.
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  Speaker 3: We don't have to deal with estate recovery and leans.
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  Speaker 3: Why because when you put things in these irrevocable trusts,
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  Speaker 3: they avoid a state recovery, they avoid having leans placed
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  Speaker 3: on them, and they explain to you once and for
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  Speaker 3: all how irrevocable trust works in a nice question and
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  Speaker 3: answer format, so that you will finally determine for yourself
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  Speaker 3: whether you like them or not, whether you feel like
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  Speaker 3: you've given up too much control or not. Talks about
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: living there, talks about selling houses, investing money, talks about
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  Speaker 3: the gift tax issues, the income tax issues. How you
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  Speaker 3: don't have any adverse income tax issues with these trusts
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  Speaker 3: many people think you do. Folks, call and get the
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: guide eight six six eight four eight five six nine
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  Speaker 3: nine or legal Exchange show dot com. You can download
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  Speaker 3: it there again eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 3: six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: back to this Massachusetts Supreme Court case. So in January
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  Speaker 3: of two thousand and eight, Mason entered a nurse home
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  Speaker 3: and Medicaid covered his care till he died in August
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  Speaker 3: of two thousand and eight. So not overly long mass
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  Speaker 3: health in is a mass health in May of two
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  Speaker 3: thousand and eight, makes sense. Place the lean because and
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  Speaker 3: this is a lifetime lean because he's still living. Because
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  Speaker 3: they determined that he could not return home, so they
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  Speaker 3: placed a lean on the house. The lean was on
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  Speaker 3: this Yarmouth home. Well, he ended up dying without a will,
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  Speaker 3: no planning at all, so he died intest eight. The
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  Speaker 3: property was never sold. Fast forward to June of twenty seventeen,
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  Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. Yeah, wow, June twenty seventeen. Finally,
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  Speaker 3: Mary Allen files the petition for probate. Wow. July twenty
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  Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. I'm sorry. July twentieth, twenty eighteen. The PR
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  Speaker 3: is appointed and the bond is approved in August of
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  Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. Within a month, mass Health files a notice
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  Speaker 3: of claim and a death lien. And at death lien,
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  Speaker 3: remember there's a lifetime lian and a death line. Okay.
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  Speaker 3: September twenty seventh, twenty twenty one, the property is sold
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  Speaker 3: finally and the money is held in escrow. The PR
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  Speaker 3: files a claim to strike the states both mass healths
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  Speaker 3: lean and claim against the estate. The trial court granted
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  Speaker 3: the motion. The lian, they said, is not applicable. Why
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  Speaker 3: because the property was not sold during life. That's the
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  Speaker 3: lifetime lian it expires. And the claim against the estate.
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  Speaker 3: Although he died before the effective date of the MUPC
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  Speaker 3: the Mass Uniform Probate Code, the three year rule applies.
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  Speaker 3: The three year rule meaning you got to file a
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  Speaker 3: claim within three years as you lose. That applied because
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  Speaker 3: it believed that it was retroactive. Remember he died before
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  Speaker 3: the effective date of the mup but this court believed
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  Speaker 3: that the MUPC three year rule was retroactive and applied
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  Speaker 3: to this case barring the claim.
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  Speaker 2: So that was a new rule that was with the
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  Speaker 2: new MUPCS.
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  Speaker 3: Right three years from death. Yeah, you didn't file your
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  Speaker 3: way beyond that. Well, the SJC decided that the lifetime
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  Speaker 3: lean must expire at death, so they affirmed the lower
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  Speaker 3: court on the lifetime lean. I agree with that. Yep.
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  Speaker 3: They reversed on the MUPC issue, stating that it's the
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  Speaker 3: retroactivity of the three year rule does not apply. It
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  Speaker 3: was only prospective after twenty twelve. Therefore, the old fifty
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  Speaker 3: year rule continued to apply, and mass Health can recover
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  Speaker 3: from the sale proceeds of the property.
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  Speaker 2: Which sounds right.
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  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Yeah, sounds right. I mean, and that's if that's
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  Speaker 3: the rule, that's theory. Yeah, they had fifty year rule. Wow,
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  Speaker 3: So we're happy about the mup SE.
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  Speaker 2: We're happy about the three year old, right.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a much better rule. So that's a little
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  Speaker 3: bit about you know, people think all these things that happen,
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  Speaker 3: like how does all this work? Look, here's how it works.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't go away just because you go crawl under
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  Speaker 3: a rock and don't sell the house.
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  Speaker 2: Right, you ignore things.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't work, folks. It's gonna come out when you
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  Speaker 3: really try to sell the house because the buyer's attorney's
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  Speaker 3: going to discover all the lean problems and it can't
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  Speaker 3: transfer a good title to the seller or to the
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  Speaker 3: buyer with the.
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  Speaker 2: Rules currently, even if you waited five years to sell it,
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  Speaker 2: they would have already put their lean on. If they
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  Speaker 2: put their years, then there's stuck.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you just got to put the lean on. So
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  Speaker 3: that's the difference for It's lots of stuff going on here.
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  Speaker 3: What can we learn from this, Well, procrastination never helps.
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  Speaker 3: This guy died without a will. He didn't have anything
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  Speaker 3: in place. I mean, at least if he had a
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  Speaker 3: trust in place. Look here, he had nothing right. If
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  Speaker 3: they had thrown this Yarmouth Parce property in a trust,
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  Speaker 3: it would have avoided probate. There would have been no leans.
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  Speaker 3: It would have been protecting the assets from the nursing
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  Speaker 3: home up front. There's no way to put a lien
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  Speaker 3: on the property. Once it's in the trust, you wouldn't
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  Speaker 3: have had to worry about a lifetime lean or a
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  Speaker 3: death lianor or anything or any probate. So it would
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  Speaker 3: have just been in the trust. Now, remember why do
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  Speaker 3: they put the lifetime lean on. Well, it can be
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  Speaker 3: non countable, but they're going to put the lien on it.
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  Speaker 3: Remember it's non countable, but leanable, because if you decide
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  Speaker 3: to sell it during life, they want to get paid back.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes kids get tired of maintaining the property, paying the
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  Speaker 3: real estate taxes, the utilities. Ah well, just sell it.
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  Speaker 3: Bad idea. There's a capital gain probably due, and you're
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  Speaker 3: going to have to pay the state back because there's
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  Speaker 3: a lifetime lean. However, as we've said before, the lean
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  Speaker 3: is your friend because at least it's you know, probably
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  Speaker 3: the it's running up at maybe fifty percent the rate
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  Speaker 3: of private pay. So having this lifetime lean, or even
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  Speaker 3: a lean during life doesn't matter. It's helpful in this case.
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  Speaker 3: So what's going on here? What's this three year rule?
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  Speaker 3: The new three year rule is again you have three
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  Speaker 3: years after death to place lean on the property. However,
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  Speaker 3: this person died before twenty twelve, fifty year rulety years.
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  Speaker 3: That's crazy. Now, why are these trusts, these medicaid irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: trusts so important? Not only are they avoiding probate and
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  Speaker 3: protecting assets from the nursing home, but you know the
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  Speaker 3: leans don't apply. You could have the proper You could
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  Speaker 3: sell the house during your life. It's a grant to
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  Speaker 3: ur trust. You could. You don't have to worry about
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  Speaker 3: not selling. If the kids want to sell, the money
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  Speaker 3: goes in the trust. The money then is protected. It
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  Speaker 3: doesn't reset the five year waiting period. It doesn't do
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  Speaker 3: any of that. So you have so much more flexibility
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  Speaker 3: with the irrevocable trust and control. And if you decide
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  Speaker 3: not to sell it, you still get a step up
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  Speaker 3: in basis and you can eliminate you know, your capital gain. Folks.
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  Speaker 3: Trust get this guide unlocking the power of Medicaid your
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: vocable trusts, and you solve the problems that existed here.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: If you've got this trust, there's no leans. You could sell.
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  Speaker 3: You don't have to sell, no adverse tax consequences. Learn
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: if that's right for you eight six six eight four
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the legal exchange
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
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  Speaker 1: Cushing in Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power but Revocable
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  Speaker 1: and to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll
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  Speaker 1: details matter when it comes to protecting what you've built.
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  Speaker 1: Get your free guide today call Cushing and Dolan at
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine.
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  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
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  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money,
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  Speaker 4: it's the legacy you leave behind. Hi, this is Mike
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  Speaker 4: Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. For many families and
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  Speaker 4: understand why. You'll discover ways to talk with your children
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
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  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
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  Speaker 1: advisory services. Protecting your assets doesn't always mean giving up control.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Get Cushing and Dolan's new guide Unlocking the power of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a revocable Medicaid trusts. Learn how to protect your assets
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: while maintaining planning flexibility. Get your free guide today by
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  Speaker 1: calling eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
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  Speaker 1: or requested online that Legal exchange Show dot com. The
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  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky, an expert in elder life
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  Speaker 1: planning and taxation. Need help with your estate plan? Call
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  Speaker 1: Todd right now and make an appointment. Eight sixty six
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lotzky. I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by Todd Letsky, a partner with the law
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Were we headed now, Todd?
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  Speaker 3: We're not going anywhere, all right. We're doing a real
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: life story.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, perfect, I got these.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: That's the case.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It's just staying in cass twice in a row.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: It's a real case.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: This is the summer. I'm tired, I don't want to travel,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: so I'm glad we're staying here.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that they're all real cases. It's just
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: this one was one that we actually had to deal with. Yeah,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: so we got a husband wife, their seventy five, husband's
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: seventy nine wife. They have three kids. Wife is now
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: in the nursing home. This is when the family comes in.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Why it's in the nursing home for about a year.
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  Speaker 3: They explained to me that they were told that they
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: would not be eligible, never be eligible for medicaid because
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: they had too many assets. So they've already spent about
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the nursing home.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: They were told that by the nursing home.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Didn't say, but I suspect the assets were a home
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: worth about nine hundred thousand dollars, husband's IRA worth about
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: half a million, wife's IRA down to two hundred thousand,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: because they spend one hundred and fifty in an investment
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: account of about four hundred thousand dollars. Well, you might
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: be listening saying that's a lot of assets. Oh, and
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: they had a term life insurance policy on the wife
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: worth about five hundred thousand. Remember term life insurance has
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: no cash surrender value. Yep, Okay, well, at least they
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: spent money from her IRA, which is helpful because it's
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: tax deductible because you're paying medical expenses, so a little helpful.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: They not coming up completely tax feed but pretty down clothes.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, true. Okay, Now, remember, do not listen to other
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: folks telling you things.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: That's what you were say saying, home is not your friends, right.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Susan, just private pay. Don't do that if they tell
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: you that, don't just private pay. Seek out legal help
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: before you spend the money. Now, in this case, at
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: least they're seeking out legal help after they yeah, or
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: aggravated a little bit because they spend one hundred and
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars. So there there. Now I'm gonna tell
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: them they are eligible now for medicaid, and they would
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: have been one hundred and fifty thousand dollars sooner. The
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty isn't what makes them eligible. So
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to just lay out that fact pattern for you.
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  Speaker 2: It's a sad fact pattern.
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  Speaker 3: Send the message that you know, don't even if you've
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: done no planning, don't just try to apply for medicaid
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: on your own. Seek out some help and see if
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: there's last minute planning. But my overall advice is call
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: and get this guide Unlocking the power of Irrevocable Medicaid
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: trust Why because advanced planning versus last minute planning. Advanced
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: planning way better. Right now you get the clock running.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: You don't have you would have taken a large chunk
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: of these assets, perhaps not the iras, and put them
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: into the trust. We would have moved them over already,
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  Speaker 3: and then they would be no leans, no probate. They
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: would have been sheltered from a state taxes, sheltered from probate.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: But if you're not sure how the trust works, this
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: guide is a question and answer trust about thirty five
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: or so questions. Answer you know, is it a gift?
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: Can I sell? Are there income tax consequences? Can I
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: buy a new house?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: How can I access my money? Folks, Once and for all,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: this will help you know whether this trust is right
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: for you or not. Call and get it eight six
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  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com. Unlocking the Power of Irrevocable Medicaid
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Trusts eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. And you can
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: always go to Cushing Dole in PC on our Instagram
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: page for more information. Okay, folks, I'm gonna run through
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: some tips and lessons here for you. This is going
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: to be why you seek legal help like they did,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: but do it before you waste a year of paying,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: because again, that year of paying is not what made
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: them eligible for medicaid when they walked in my office.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: They are eligible for medicaid before that, right, even though
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of assets here, So let's run through
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: those assets. The home that was nine hundred thousand dollars
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: non countable, non.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Leenable because there's a healthy spouse.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Healthy spouse doesn't even matter the value the home could
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: have any unlimited value, non leenable, non countable. Transfer the
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: house one hundred percent to the healthy spouse. Why, because
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: transfers between spouses are permissible and that house is off
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the table. Nice. That's nine hundred thousand dollars of their
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: total assets. Okay, well we got some money left. What
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: do we got? We got half a million dollar life
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: insurance policy. There's no cash surrender value on that. Oh,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: transfers between spouses are permissible. Let's transfer the ownership over
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: to the husband it was on the wife. Remember, transfer
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the ownership to the husband. Now, the husband's going to
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: have to continue to make premium payments because it's a
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: term policy. It's okay, he's going to have money to
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: do it, and he's gonna get five hundred thousand dollars
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: when she passes away. So you change the beneficiary to
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: make sure it's the husband, make the owner of the husband.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: The transfer between spouses is permissible, and even if it wasn't,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: the value of what you're transferring today is zero. Remember
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: there's no cash surrender value with term insurance. Home run
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: take the insurance. So now we've saved nine hundred thousand
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: and five hundred thousand, and we're going down the list.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: What's next, Well, we have an IRA plus, we have
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: investment accounts. Well, these are all countable assets. So we've
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: gone through the kind of non countable assets already. Now
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: we're in the accountable world. Yeah, those are allcountable. What
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: do we got about one point two million? Now, the
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: amount the community spouse can keep today is around one
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So I'm just going to
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: throw that out there and call it two thousand for
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: the six spouse. Yeah, so you can back out about
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty two thousand dollars from the million
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: two right, it's rounded down, so you bring that down
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: to about a million, million, fifty thousand left. Okay, all right,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: so we backed that out, you got about a million
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: fifty called a million for easy numbers for us. Well,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: now you're still over a lot of money. Yeah, so
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: you'd still be denied now, and this is important, you'd
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: still be denied at that point because you haven't met
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: the financial eligibility. The financial eligibility is the community spouse
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: is allowed to keep the house and one hundred and
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: fifty yep, and the six bouse is allowed to keep two.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So what do you do with that?
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: But we've got about a million kicking around? What are
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: we going to do? Well, some of that's in the ira.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Her ira is only about two hundred thousand dollars. I'm
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: going to transfer that to him. Why because you're allowed,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So you're going to withdraw it? Yeah, we pay the
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: tax on two hundred thousand dollars. I'd pay the tax
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: every day.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, So now it's after tax money, non retirement money.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Correct, throw it in the bank account. But I'm going
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: to pay the tax, because again I'm losing sixteen seventeen
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: thousand a month if I don't so, and I'm going
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: to give it to the healthy spouse.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So we do that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Then I'm going to take his annuity for his IRA
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: rather of fifty five hundred thousand yep, and I'm going
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: to buy a separate annuity inside his IRA, okay, so
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: as not to liquidate the whole IRA and pay a
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: huge income tax on that time five years that'll come
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: out over I can make that pay out over a
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: long period of time his life expectancy.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: But that leaves another five hundred six hundred thousand dollars
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: or so that we need to deal with. Okay, We're
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: going to buy another annuity for the husband.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: John retirement one and after tax.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: An after tax non retirement annuity. And remember the Dermody
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: case was a Supreme Court case here in Massachusetts that
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: allows really blessed these annuities. So I know they're going
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: to work. And what's going to happen is when I
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: buy this annuity, you know, you go through an insurance company,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: so they're guaranteed they're protected. And when you when you
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: buy this annuity, you're converting that's six hundred thousand dollars
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: of excess resources the assets into an income stream. So basically,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: and we want to do it over as short a
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: time as we can. Yeah, find as short a time
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: as you can.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Probably five years.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe maybe you get a little less, but let's
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: say five. And remember it can't be longer than the
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: life expectancy of the of the annuitant in this case,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: the husband, but it can be shorter and as long
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: as it comes out monthly and doesn't exceed that term limit.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: You've now converted that asset to an income stream, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: now we are financially eligible for medicaid. Wow, and we've
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: saved really all the assets, folks. That's last minute planning.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: We can avoid last minute planning for the most part
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: by calling and getting this guide. Unlocking the Power of
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Medicaid irrevocable Trusts, Question and Answers is the way it's
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: put together. You will know how it works eight six
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or our
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: website Legal exchange show dot com. You can download it there.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Letski, a partner with the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: legal exchange with Todd Letskey.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power of Irrevocable
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: assets from the cost of long term care while still
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the common misunderstandings about arevocable trusts
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: and how they actually work. It explains why many families
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: use these trusts as part of a broader plan to
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also find
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: information about how these trusts work, what types of assets
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: may be appropriate to transfer, and why the details matter
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: when it comes to protecting what you've built. Get your
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: free guide today call Cushing and Dolan at eight six
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine. That's eight
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine, or
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you can request it online. At legal exchainshow dot com.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money.
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: It's making sure your family is prepared for what comes next.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Too
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: often important estate planning decisions are discovered only after a
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: loved one has passed. Your plan may be very specific,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: but it can still fall short if your family doesn't
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: understand your wishes. Our new guide Talking to your Kids
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: about Inheritance explains how thoughtful conversations today can help create
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: greater understanding tomorrow. You'll learn when to have these discussions,
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: how much information to share, and why clear expectations can
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: help your family navigate the future with confidence. You can
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: get your free guide today by calling eight hundred three
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred three
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: nine three four zero zero one, or requested online by
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: visiting Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 25:50
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• 25:55
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• 26:04
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• 26:12
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• 26:16
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• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Cushingon Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power of Irrevocable Medicaid
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain assets
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: from the cost of long term care while still allowing
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide breaks
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: down some of the common misunderstandings about irrevocable trusts and
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: how they actually work. It explains why many families use
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: these trusts as part of a broader plan to help
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also find information
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: about how these trusts work, what types of assets may
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: be appropriate to transfer, and why the details matter when
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it comes to protecting what you've built. Get your free
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: guide today call Cushing and Dolan at eight six six
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine. That's eight six
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine, or you
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: can request it online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan in
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated. You're listening to the Legal
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Exchange and it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Todd will answer your questions about anything and everything that's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: included in the estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome back. Todd, have a few questions from listeners for you.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: First question comes from down in Catuit, mass and Don writes,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: My wife and I are in our early eighties and
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: have two children. We own several rental properties, one of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: them one of which my daughter lives in. We'd like
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: to treat our son and daughter equally, but want to
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: make sure our daughter receives the house she lives in.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: We've put off doing any planning and are afraid it
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: might be too late to protect our assets given our ages.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Should we pick two equal value properties, indeed, one to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: each of our kids.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Now, okay, I'm going to answer this question very simply. No,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: let's move on. Let's move on.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: There should be a button for that.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: No.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: No, So no, gifting is not the answer. But of
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: course we need to explain and give you alternatives and
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: help you understand, you know, really what you're trying to do,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: which is why they call lawyers counselors. See, I figured
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: this out. We're counseling. So the first thing is, you're
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: not it's not too late. You're in your eighties. Hey,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. However, old you are, you're healthy enough
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: at this point, do it. Put together you know, trusts.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know which kind. I'm going to assume that
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: you're maybe worth less than four million or five million,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: and maybe medicaid irrevocable trust. I'll put together two of
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: those so that you can protect these assets for them.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, ultimately, if you want this daughter who's living
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: in the property to get this property, I would think
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: an irrevocable trust might be in order so that the
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: nursing home doesn't take it in case you get sick. So, again,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: not knowing their whole estate, I would say two irrevocable trusts,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: assuming they're over two million dollars in assets and will
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: take their houses, put it in there, take some real
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: money investment accounts, put it in there, etc. Okay, we
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: got our plan. We've got more going on here that's
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: going to create the five year waiting period. It's this
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: equal treatment problem they that they have setting it up,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: not the problem.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I must caution anybody who wants to start giving a
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: particular asset to a particular child. Can you absolutely there's
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: no right or wrong answer when doing it, though you
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: might need to, might need to and I'd say might,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: but probably more often than not, you're going to need
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: to consider unequal treatment for your children. It's oftentimes hard
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: to equalize because assets grow at different rates and united especial. Yeah,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: you don't know who's gonna you know how how that's
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: going to work, can you perhaps so? Yes, I would say,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: pick another asset, another house, that's as close to equal
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: value as as you can, and say in your document
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: upon our deaths, allocate property X y Z to a
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: share for the benefit of daughter. And by the way,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: put or any replacement property in case you sell it,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: you know, and allocate property ABC to sun if that's
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: where you want it to go, or any replacement property.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: And oftentimes I go out of my way to say
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: and or maybe the proceeds from the sale in case
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: you don't buy something else, you still want her to
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: have the money that she would have got from that,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: So put that into the language into the trust. And
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: then you could simply say everything else equally. But if
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: you do that again might not be equal. Or you
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: could put a little language in the trust that says
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: balance of the assets goes equally. But before we do that,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: you have to look at the value of the two properties,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: and let's say they're off by one hundred thousand dollars.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Then the one who got the more valuable home by
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: one hundred thousand, you would take and have a formula
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: that says, allocate the difference to the child who has less.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: So you can give one hundred thousand to this son
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: if the daughter's house was worth more.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Correct, got it. And then then you have language it
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: says the balance goes equally to the kids m and
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: then whatever other language you want from a credit or
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: protection standpoint or divorce proof. So, folks, it can be done.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: And guess what it can be done with these irrevocable
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: medicaid trusts. So many people feel like they lose control,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: can't do things that they want to do, can't leave
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: things the way they want to leave it. Folks, I'm
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: just gonna leave it at this. This is a guide
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: that is a question and answer format and it will
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: answer I assure you, it's going to answer ninety five
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: percent of your questions that you ever had about irrevocable trusts,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: from gift tax to a state tax, to selling property,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: to how much control you have to who can be trustee? Folks,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: call and get it and learn once and for all
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: if these trusts are right for you eight sixty six
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or legal exchange
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or legal exchange show dot com.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: You can download it right there, or go to Cushing
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Dolan PC our Instagram page for more information.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Todd Our last question comes from Lydia in Cranston, Rhode Island,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: and Lydia writes, my mother has decided to sell her
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: home and move in with me. She would like to
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: pay for an in law apartment edition to be built
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: onto my home so that she can age in place
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: with me. If she pays for the addition, will this
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: be a problem if she goes into a nursing home
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: later on? Also? Could my siblings force me to pay
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: them back as part of their inheritance once my mom
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: passes away.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: I'm going to start with the end of that, because
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: that's the part that bothers me the most. It's mom's money.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: M mom can do what she wants with mom's money.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, is there undue influence here by Lydia? I
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: don't know, but I'm assuming not. I mean, if if
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: she's moving in there. They probably had a conversation. And
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: so so I'm gonna say Mom can do what she
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: wants with the money. I don't think the kid. The
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: kids can always sue, but again, that would be an
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: uphill battle. And quite frankly, I can tell you that
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: if I'm the children, I'm the siblings, I would be
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: thrilled that one of my siblings want to take care
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: of mom. Yeah, you know, I mean not that you know,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't, but if someone else wants to do it,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: it's a lot of work.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: So so she to me, it's it's not about her
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: getting more, it's she earned it. That's sort of the
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: way the way I would look at it. So just
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: wanted to, you know, get that part out of the way.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Mom's job, Mom's money. Mom can do what she wants, yep,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: with her money. And then she can even put language
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: in there, no contest clause or whatever in her in
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: her estate plan.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: So what's the best way for Lydia to have mom
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: pay for this edition?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is the issue, right, if she just
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: takes money, Lydia, I'm sorry. If mom just takes money
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: and gives it to the daughter to build, to build,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: that's going to be a five year waiting period for
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Medicaid eligibility. It's a gift, right, Yeah, she basically gave
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: her money to build an addition to her house. But
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: it's it's the daughter's house. It's right. She's getting nothing
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: back for fair market value for what she gave away.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: So that is the problem, right, that's that's going to
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: create that five year waiting period. Now I don't know
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: health and everything here, but if I can reduce that
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: waiting period, i'd want to sure, So how can I
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: reduce it? I can say that Mom is buying a
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: life interest in this house of daughter. So Mom then
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: is transferring the money in exchange for a right to
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: live there the rest of her life.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, so Lydia can't kick her out.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Right, It's a nugget of ownership. It gives Mom a
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: sense of saying, I have some rights here. If I
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: don't do that and I just give the money, Mom
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: has no rights. Legally, Mom could be thrown out. So
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: that's reason in and of itself. Sure to do this
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: for mom. But there's actually some benefits. A little downside,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: but here's the benefits. So not only does she have
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: the right to live there. The next benefit is, if
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: you're paying for a life interest in somebody else's house,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you only need to stay out of the nursing home
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: and live in that house for one year. Nice, that
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: money would not be a disqualifying transfer. So five year
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: look back, it's a one year right. You actually can
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: reduce it from five to one.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: That sounds fabulously like a loophole, And so far it's
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: good for mom in two cents.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: One, it's good for the daughter. It's only a one
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: year waiting period. It's good for mom because now she
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: has the right to live there.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Sounds a little too good to be true.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's a little penalty issue. What's the penalty issue, Well,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: it's a sale. So daughter is going to incur a
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: capital gains tax on the sale of that nugget of
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: owner hip. And when you sell to a related party
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: a life interest, the section one point twenty one capital
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: gains exclusion doesn't apply. Okay, so she's going to have
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: some small capital gains tax. I'd say small. I don't
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: know what it is, but it's on the value of
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: what she sold, not the whole house. Okay, So there
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: will be some capital gains tax to me, all price
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: to pay for all the benefits that go with it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Not a bad not a bad approach, but folks do planning.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Call and get the guide eight six six eight four
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: eight five six ninety nine.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: on the ass Tod tab. Hopefully, if I read it,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: he'll answer it and stop you from becoming one of
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: his next real life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: a partner with a law firm of Cushing in Dolan.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this quick break on the
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutski.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Cushing in Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power but Revocable
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect certain
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: assets from the cost of long term care while still
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The guide
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: breaks down some of the common misunderstandings a better trusts
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and how they actually work. It explains why many families
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: use these trusts as part of a broader play and
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: find information about how these trust work, what types of
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why the details
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: matter when it comes to protecting what you've built. Get
• 38:17
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• 38:20
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• 38:22
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• 38:25
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• 38:29
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• 38:32
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• 38:35
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• 38:38
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• 38:39
  Speaker 4: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: it's the legacy you leave behind.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: HI.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. For
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: many families and inheritance represents more than assets. It reflects
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: a lifetime of hard work, values and the hope of
• 38:52
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• 38:56
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• 38:59
  Speaker 4: as important and does the estate plan itself. The documents
• 39:02
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• 39:05
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• 39:08
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• 39:11
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• 39:13
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• 39:16
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• 39:22
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• 39:25
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• 39:26
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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• 39:33
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• 39:36
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• 39:38
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• 39:42
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• 39:45
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• 39:48
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• 39:52
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• 39:58
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• 40:00
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• 40:54
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• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, Todd, this month's guide it's all
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: about unlocking the power of irrevocable trusts. In the same fashion,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: this guide is all questions and answers. So I'm gonna
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: ask you questions and let's see if your answers match
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: the guide. How's that roll? All right? So let's start
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: with some pretty basic things. What type of assets should
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: you actually retitle or transfer into one of these air
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: vocable medicaid trusts?
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: And that's a that's a fair question. First of all,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: it really can hold almost anything you wanted to hold.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: It can hold your home mm hmm, rental property, yeah,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: if you want to put that in vacation homes, investment
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: in portfolios, bank accounts, CDs. I'm not suggesting you throw
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: all your money in but sure, any amounts of any
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: of these things can be all retitled to this trust.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: But the one item that you really or maybe two
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: items you have to deal with separately. One item, for
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: sure would be qualified money, so retirement accounts IRA or
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: four H one K four three B, you know the
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: four fifty seven plan traditional. Yeah, you can't really transfer
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: those in because you'd have to take them out of
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: where they are, which generally results in a huge income
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: tax liability. So you kind of got to leave those alone. Sure,
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: there's other ways to deal with it. And the other
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: one that you most of the time don't put in
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: the trust is life insurance, right, because if you're making
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: premium payments and you don't own it because the trust
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: owns it, then that's going to be a waiting period
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: every time you pay the premium on the policy.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: If you're if you're still having to make premium payments
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: taught and it's owned by your trust, and you have
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: liquid assets in your trust, could the trust make those
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: premium payments if you have trust, I.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Would say that's an option. Right. So if you're one
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: of the items we talked about putting in there is
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: the investment portfolio, and you want to buy and sell
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: things on the investment portfolio side, you can liquidate some
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: money to pay the premium. That would be okay because
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: that's not creating a five year waiting period. So that's
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: kind of the general rules of funding.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: So I know that if I wrote you a check, correct,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: it'll be a small chest. Anything larger will just bounce. Yeah,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: So if I wrote you a big check, I'd have
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: to do a gift tax return. I don't know if
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: i'd have to do a transfer tax or not. But
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: if you transfer things to your trust, do you have
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: to file gift tax returns and transfer taxes and all
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: of that stuff.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that you're right to make the analogy.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: If you wrote me a check for more than nineteen
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars, remember that nineteen thousand is that freebie amount
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: that doesn't require any reporting of any kind. But if
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: you wrote a one hundred thousand dollars check to me
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: or to a child, or to whoever you wrote it to,
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: now that's arguably a taxable gift to the extent it's
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: north of the nineteen thousand, and you would have to
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: file the form it's called a seven h nine gift
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: tax return. You're not going to pay any gift tax,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: but you still got to file it. You just eat
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: up some of your exemption transferring assets to these trusts.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Because remember, you could be transferring a million dollar home, sure,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: a big seven hundred thousand dollars vacation home. You could
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: be transferring to these trusts. Those transfers are incomplete gifts
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: the way this trust is designed, so you really aren't
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: required to file. I mean, they say you should file,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: but there's no reason to file because it's not a gift.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: The asset in the trust is still going to be
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: part of your estate when you die by design for basis,
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: step up and things like that. So incomplete gift for
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: gift tax purposes, don't defile anything. You're in good shape, folks.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: These are just a few of the it's a flavor
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: of the questions and answers that are in this guide.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: It's literally just like Susan's reading it. There's a specific
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: question with a specific answer as to income taxes, estate taxes,
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: gift taxes, day to day operation selling a house, collecting rent,
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: buying a house, all the questions that you would have
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: about an irrevocable medicaid trust, and when you're done, I
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: can assure you that you're going to know whether you
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: like it or it's not for you. Call and get
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: the guide eight six six eight four eight five six
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. Unlocking the
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Power of Irrevocable Medicaid Trusts eight sixty six eight four
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: com and always Cushing Dolan pc as the Instagram page
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: for more info.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: So let's say you transferred your home into your irrevocable trust.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Good call who's responsible for paying the expenses that are
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: attributed attributable to that home after it's been transferred into
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the house.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Well, you are, trust, you are. Remember a second ago
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: we just talked about this is not a completed gift. Yes,
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: title changed, but you still kind of There's language in
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: the trust that says all the income that's generated is
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: belongs to you. So by having that retained right to
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: the income means you have this really this retained right
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: to live there. So if you're living there, you're gonna
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: be paying the bills, utilities, real estate taxes. I think
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: that's what you mean. Yes, exactly of your own personal account,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: just like you used to.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: So what if I have been using my investment account
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: to pay you know, the big things, you know, home improvements,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: in real estate taxes, things like that for my home,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: and I've gone and I've transferred all of my investments
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: into my trust.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: What happens then you could use money in the trust
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: to maintain another asset in the trust. Yeah, you can
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: do that. So you can use what's in the trust
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: to pay the bills on the items that are in there,
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: or like, you could even use the money in the
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: investment portfolio in the trust and say I want a
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: new roof. Yep, you could pay a contractor to put
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: a new roof on the house that's owned by the trust.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Why you're just investing money. Differently, you're saying I don't
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: like this stock, I want a new roof. Fine, it's
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: an investment, so things like that would be okay.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: So kind of along those lines, Todd, we have a
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: mutual client who is in the process of selling their
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: what was their primary residence and now refurbishing their vacation
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: home to make it their new primary So they're going
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: to actually be selling their primary home at the end
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: of this month. So they're going to have we've opened
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: up brokerage accounts, and.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Then both of these houses are in the trust.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Both of these houses are in their ireevocable trust. So
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: we've opened up brokerage accounts in anticipation of receiving money
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: proceeds from the sale of that home.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: So now they are going to be renovating what will
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: be their new primary residence. It's their existing vacation home,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: probably a couple hundred thousand dollars of expenses. So how
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: does that look from a practical perspective, Like, how do
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: they go about doing that?
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: So, I think what you're driving at, Susan, is it
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: sounds like they're going to be using a lot of principle,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: not just income. Because these trusts are income only trust
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: they do allow you to get access directly from the
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: trust for the income, Hey just pay it out automatically
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: into their personal account and that's how it works. But Todd,
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: this addition we're putting on or this renovation we're doing,
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: might be hundreds of thousands of dollars. If it is,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: that's principle. So I sell my home that I'm living
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: in and I now have you know, a million dollars
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: in the house in these trusts. That's principle, and the
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: only way to use the principle is to hire a contractor,
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: and the trustee of the trust would actually write checks
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: out of the trust to the contractor, who then will
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: pay their subs and do whatever they do to complete
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: the process. So that principle is not coming out to
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: you or the donor of the trust, which is not allowed.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: It's simply being used to purchase another or improve another
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: asset that is in the trust.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: So they haven't lost their flexibility to make this move whatsoever.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: Haven't lost the flexibility. And you're going to learn also
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: in the trust folks that in this guide that there's
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: no adverse income tax consequence to selling their old primary residence.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: They're still going to get the capital gains exclusion. Folks,
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Call and get the guide Unlocking the Power of Medicaid
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Irrevocable Trusts and you will learn answers to all your
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: questions on how they work. Eight six six eight four
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: com again eight six six eight four eight five six
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com and get
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: Unlocking the Power of Medicaid Irrevocable trusts.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dylan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Many people assume that if an asset is irrevocable, it's
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: completely out of their hands. That's not necessarily the case.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Unlocking the Power of a
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Revocable Medicaid Trusts explains how these trusts can help protect
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: certain assets from the cost of long term care while
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: still allowing you to maintain important rights and flexibility. The
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: guide breaks down some of the common misunderstandings about irrevocable
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: trusts and how they actually work. It explains why many
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: families use these trusts as part of a broader plan
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to help preserve assets for future generations. Inside you'll also
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: find information about how these trusts work, what types of
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: assets may be appropriate to transfer, and why the details
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: matter when it comes to protecting what you've built. Get
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: your free guide today. Call Cushing and Dolan at eight
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine. That's
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: or you can request it online at legal exchangshow dot com.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: The most important part of an inheritance isn't always the money.
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: It's making sure your family is prepared for what comes next.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: Hi.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Too
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: often important estate planning decisions are discovered only after a
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: loved one has passed. Your plan may be very specific,
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: but it can still fall short if your family doesn't
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: understand your wishes. Our new guide Talking to your Kids
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: about Inheritance explains how thoughtful conversations today can help create
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: greater understanding tomorrow. You'll learn when to have these discussions,
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: how much information to share, and why clear expectations can
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: help your family navigate the future with confidence. You can
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: get your free guide today by calling eight hundred three
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred three
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: nine three four zero zero one, or requested online by
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: visiting Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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