Latest / Bug Hive with Benny Feldman / Nico Carney - Character Creation is Gender Exploration

Transcript

Nico Carney - Character Creation is Gender Exploration · Bug Hive with Benny Feldman

0:00
What's up, dog?
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>> What's up? How are you, Benny?
0:02
>> I'm chilling and vibing. I'm kicking it.
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How you been?
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>> I've been good. Um, we were just talking
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about video games before we got on. So,
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>> I saw you posted like you had the discs
0:12
of
0:12
>> Yes. Yes. So, I'm going to give you the
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full I'm going to give you the full
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rundown. So, basically, I got into video
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games like I like play a little bit as a
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kid, but I I just like didn't really
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play as much in my like later childhood.
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For any listeners, I'm I'm a trans guy.
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So, like I feel like a lot of my middle
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and high school days, I was like super
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closeted. So, I just like didn't really
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have access to a lot of those more like
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traditionally masculine boy activities.
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So, I kind of fell off of like but I
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always really liked video games like as
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a kid. And then I just like never really
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did again. And then uh last year my
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girlfriend's roommate got gifted a PS4
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for some reason by some guy at work and
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she brought it home and it already had
0:48
like Spider-Man like loaded in it. Like
0:50
it was like a Spider-Man release one.
0:51
So, I played it and I was like, "This is
0:53
awesome." Like, I want to get back into
0:55
this. And then my roommate got a PS5 and
0:57
had his extra like his old PS4 in the
1:00
living room and he was like, "Yeah, you
1:01
can use it anytime you want."
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>> Damn. And the PS5 [ __ ] rips through
1:04
the
1:04
>> Dude, it's crazy. I Yeah, I'm mostly on
1:07
I'm on PS4, but anytime I play a
1:08
friend's PS5, I'm like, "This is
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insane."
1:10
>> I'm on I'm on PS4, too, for the record.
1:13
But my old my old roommate did he was
1:15
like a video game developer. Oh, [ __ ]
1:17
We got like an early prototype thing and
1:20
we had to like hide it from like like
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the people weren't allowed to see it
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like be hidden from view cuz it was like
1:26
not it was like a black box type thing.
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I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.
1:30
Sorry. No, I'm not going to name any
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names, but um
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>> but it was Yeah, it was sick.
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>> That's so cool. Yeah. And so I got into
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uh my roommate was just talking about
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Elden Ring, which is like, you know, a
1:41
massive game of the year for whatever.
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And I was like, "Okay, like I'll try
1:44
it." Not really. I hadn't played a ton
1:46
of video games. I'd only played
1:47
Spider-Man like a bunch of times and I
1:49
like I don't know pretty new to it but I
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was like I'll just try this. I had no
1:52
idea what I was getting into and I think
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I had I known I maybe would have like
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shied away from such a like daunting
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game cuz it's
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>> daunting. I haven't played the
2:01
Spider-Man.
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>> No, Elden Ring.
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>> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah,
2:03
>> I was like Elder Ring.
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>> No, Spider-Man's a ton of fun.
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Spider-Man seems like
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>> it's a pretty chill game, I would say.
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Yeah, but like Elden Ring is just so
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much like it's just a such a step up
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from what I'd been playing. But then I
2:14
totally fell in love with it. I was so
2:15
bad at it, but I loved the I just loved
2:18
it. And I loved being bad at it.
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>> Aesthetics, the
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>> Oh my god, it's gorgeous.
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>> I wrote a joke or two about it. Oh,
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yeah.
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>> I So, I try to not do video game stuff
2:26
in my act cuz the crowds don't
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>> play games. Yeah.
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>> But I try to have it be like, "All
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right, I think people could get this
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from context." Totally. The idea is
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like, um,
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>> you know, I always like to play as a
2:37
woman in games just to see what like
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life is like in their eyes. You know, I
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didn't know women always have to dodge
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lightning attacks.
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And that was like a, you know, elder
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eldering focused.
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>> This I don't know if this is
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embarrassing, but it is something I
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genuinely do.
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>> No, I try to make myself a woman.
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>> Yeah, I love that.
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>> Like, let's let's see what this is.
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>> It's such a It's such a place to uh to
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freely explore things like that, you
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know, like
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>> turn off the AC.
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>> It's uh
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>> I don't know. I feel like video games
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are like the OG like I don't know. You
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get to like design your own character.
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It's like such a gender exploration
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>> thing, you know? Like there's so much
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Did you do Sims at all or anything? Like
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>> not a ton. I wasn't like my parents were
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so like uh I don't know. They just were
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like really I was older before so
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they're very strict about like my
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computer use and stuff like that. They
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got like way more chill as my siblings
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grew up, but like they just like didn't
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let me play computer games that much. I
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think like a couple I would do like the
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Oh, what was that site there was? So,
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you know, they had all those game sites
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where they just had like that look like
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they would crash your computer, but you
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just like play like all these little
3:37
games. I would do stuff like that, but I
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never got into like Sims or any of those
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like bigger like roleplay games. Yeah.
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Or Minecraft or any of that.
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>> I feel like uh based on aesthetic and
3:47
vibe, you would have been into like Tony
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Hawk Pro Skater.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. I know. I So I like kind of
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missed all that stuff. And then Yeah. I
3:53
got into I got into Elden Ring, loved
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it. Beat that after like hours and hours
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and hours of playing it. And then I was
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like, "Okay, I'm going to try Dark Souls
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3I next." Play that one. Love That's a
4:03
that's a such a funny uh just cuz Dark
4:05
Souls 3II is like the very first guy is
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like such a spike of difficulty if you
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haven't played any started with like a
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different one cuz
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>> it honestly really worked out. I talked
4:15
to my roommate about this at length cuz
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we just like wax poetic about far from
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software games. But uh he I was saying
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the same thing because Elder Ring is so
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open world and you can just like decide
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if you're like I'm not ready for this.
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I'm going to go somewhere else versus
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like with Dark Souls that are and games
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that are more linear. You're like well
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I'm [ __ ] if I don't get past this guy.
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So good. Yeah. So, you just have to get
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good. And I But so, I'm glad I played
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Elder Ring first cuz I was able to like
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get so into it that I knew I would have
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like the stamina to like say those like
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linear games. And now I'm on Bloodborne
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and I'm getting my ass handed to me.
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>> Hell yeah, dude. [ __ ] And then we
4:46
were just talking uh my favorite is
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Sakura.
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>> Yeah, that's what I want to do next.
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>> Next. Hell yes. Hell yes.
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>> Where you at? I'm sorry to anybody who
4:54
is here for interested in either comedy
4:57
or gender or such. Uh we're talking
5:00
about
5:00
>> video games. Oh, sorry. Bloodborne.
5:02
Briefly, I do want to know where you're
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at in Bloodborne.
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>> I'm in Old Arnum right now. I'm I'm
5:06
freshly started. So, I beat the first uh
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>> Father Gascoin.
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>> Father. Yeah. Yeah. People get stuck on.
5:14
>> Totally. So, I got through him and then
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now I'm on the blood starved beast who's
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kicking my ass cuz I accidentally used
5:19
up some of the [ __ ] I was supposed to
5:20
use on him. So,
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>> you live and you learn.
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>> I love that reveal when you first walk
5:24
out that door and the guy's like, "Don't
5:27
don't come in." Sorry for spoilers, but
5:29
it's like [ __ ] opens up fire with a
5:31
gatling gun. You're like, "Oh shit."
5:33
Yeah.
5:35
>> And I like how like that what I'm
5:36
excited about this one and about Seiro
5:38
is that they have like I really like the
5:41
mystical, you know, vaguely Game of
5:43
Thrones kind of world that the other
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games are set in. But I like that these
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ones have like a slightly different
5:47
atmosphere. It's cool.
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>> Yeah. I uh I don't want to speak too
5:50
much about Bloodborne
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uh in a because I don't want to do
5:54
spoilers for you, but yeah, the
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aesthetic is
5:56
>> Yeah. It's cool. Oh, talk to me again
5:58
about the aesthetic later cuz I wanted
6:00
to cuz the aesthetic um
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I don't it's I feel like it's a spoiler
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to even say anything. I'm going to say
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nothing else.
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>> Okay. Okay. Well, I'm excited. You're
6:08
you're making me like I got to get back
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and play. Um but yeah, so I've gotten
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I've been like recently getting into
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video games. So
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>> that's such a that's the deep end of the
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pool, too.
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>> I know. I know. And I think I wouldn't
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have jumped in, like I said, had I not
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just been like, "Oh, I'll try Elden
6:21
Ring." Cuz I was such a novice at that
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point. I didn't know anything. I wasn't
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like in on video game culture. I wasn't
6:26
in like I just like didn't I wasn't
6:29
aware of what like the the like cultural
6:31
perception around that game was or that
6:32
it was like considered to be like
6:34
difficult or like Yeah. Like that these
6:35
From Software games are like intense and
6:37
I don't know. Yeah.
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>> Oh yeah. And that it's uh it's
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interesting to me because you had
6:42
mentioned um not having that experience
6:44
growing up of like the gaming situation
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like in my mind like very formative of
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like playing Halo with the homies and
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like a shitty bean bag and stuff. You
6:54
got to do that now. Oh, you got to get a
6:55
bunch of hummus. You got to get like a
6:57
like a case of Dr. Peppers and a raggedy
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ass bean bag.
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>> No, totally. I was well the uh I was
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like I started a substack like
7:07
recentlyish and I that was why we
7:09
brought this up cuz I posted about it
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cuz I wrote about it this week and that
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was one of the things I was writing
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about was like something I guess I like
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you know I was and this for the people
7:17
of Here for gender this we'll get into
7:18
that part but um I feel like I had this
7:22
weird like thing where like
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>> they're actually here for gender stuff
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like I was more I was more like it's
7:26
funny that we're immediately not talking
7:27
about anything that
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>> has to do with anything. Yeah. I don't
7:30
think I don't think people watch my
7:31
stuff for disability, you know what I
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mean? But
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>> um
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>> they're here for comedy.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh I
7:38
went through this weird thing where like
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I I feel like I I had this like, you
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know, really early childhood like
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boyhood where I was able to like be
7:47
myself, express myself the ways I wanted
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to. And then middle school, it just sort
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of like naturally or by people saying
7:52
things like you just kind of get
7:53
socialized back into the closet. At
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least I should speak for myself get
7:56
socialized back into the closet. So like
7:57
like my uh like middle high school,
8:00
college years were very much like me
8:02
deep in the closet not really
8:03
understanding what was like up with me
8:06
vaguely figuring out I was gay and then
8:08
later on figuring out that I was trans.
8:09
But like in that time I felt like I had
8:11
such animosity and like hatred for like
8:15
you know
8:17
traditionally like male centered
8:18
activities like getting together with
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your friends and playing video games. Oh
8:21
that's so stupid. They're brought in
8:22
their brains. It's violent. It's [ __ ]
8:24
Like you know just having all these
8:25
terrible opinions about it. And now as
8:26
an adult and now that I'm playing video
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games and I'm like watching my my
8:30
roommate who like gets like hangs out
8:33
over like online gaming platforms with
8:35
like old buddies like playing Fortnite
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or whatever. I'm like this is so
8:38
beautiful that like men typically guys
8:41
or whomever like have this instilled I
8:45
don't know thing that they did as like
8:46
kids that like still can translate even
8:48
though we all live in different places
8:49
that they can like keep up with their
8:50
homies. I'm like, damn, I wish like my
8:53
friends did stuff like that. But they're
8:55
mostly most of my childhood friends are
8:56
women and they're not playing Fortnite.
8:58
So,
8:58
>> you know, it's um it's interesting cuz
9:00
that gender division of gaming is only a
9:03
certain age and above cuz the Wii was
9:06
marketed to
9:07
>> totally all ages and all gender. So from
9:11
like two like 20 depending on your youth
9:14
if it's like 20 2008 or something and
9:17
like and down of if you were in a
9:19
certain range um it's like 50/50
9:22
entirely like
9:23
>> totally. Yeah.
9:24
>> Yeah. And I mean I really
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>> And by 50/50 I mean of the two genders.
9:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I suck at non-binary
9:29
people. Yeah. Yeah.
9:30
>> They're out they're out killing frogs.
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>> Those are outdoor kids. Yeah. Uh, no.
9:35
The uh, no, that's such a good point
9:37
though because like my, like I said
9:39
earlier, like my early days of playing
9:40
video, like we had a Gamecube, we played
9:41
my siblings and I played Mario Kart and
9:43
Monkey Ball and like all those like
9:44
Yeah. like rated E games that aren't
9:46
meant for anybody. And then it just like
9:48
is interesting as you get older and
9:49
like, you know, kids start wanting to
9:50
do, you know, more grown-up stuff or
9:52
play more intense things or their taste
9:54
just starts to mature a little bit. They
9:55
like those games are very like masculine
9:58
and like war and violent and dominated
10:00
that way. And I feel like a lot of young
10:02
girls don't really find themselves like
10:04
veering into that. I mean, plenty do and
10:06
I think it's a anytime there's a girl
10:07
gamer. I think it's [ __ ] awesome. But
10:08
I just like shout out if you're
10:10
watching. And uh but I just uh yeah,
10:13
it's just like interesting the way that
10:14
those things end up like sort of shaking
10:16
out. And um
10:17
>> I guess maybe also kind of what you're
10:19
touching into. It's like I mean uh it's
10:21
marketed to boys or some of it, but also
10:25
specific stuff. It's like movies aren't
10:27
necessarily a gendered idea, but certain
10:30
genres are for sure.
10:31
>> Right. And then you're so right. It's
10:32
like all in the way that they're
10:33
marketed and then like cuz also like
10:35
something like Elder Ring, like that's
10:36
not necessarily like a masculine g like
10:39
you can play as any type of character
10:40
you want. You can like it's just a
10:43
fantastical world. But it is like just
10:44
interesting the way that those things
10:46
are especially like the super violent
10:47
like war video games. Like those always
10:49
felt like cuz I feel like Halo and Call
10:50
of Duty were like everywhere when I was
10:52
in middle and high school. Like those
10:53
were like the games. maybe Skyrim and
10:55
stuff too, but like
10:55
>> first person shooter stuff.
10:57
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so that was just also
10:58
something I wasn't like that like drawn
11:00
to. So I just like felt But anyway, all
11:02
this to say I am deep in Bloodborne
11:04
having a great time.
11:05
>> Yeah. Hell yeah. We we really we came in
11:07
hot [ __ ] uh
11:09
>> any of this speak to you by the way?
11:11
>> Yes. I'm going to get in on some of this
11:12
uh I'm going to get in some of this
11:13
construction paper here. I think I'm
11:14
going to
11:15
>> Also, what's uh what's new with you?
11:17
What's what's in in a more general
11:19
sense?
11:19
>> Yes. I also I guess I should introduce
11:20
myself to the list.
11:21
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Nico,
11:23
>> what's up? I'm Nico Carney. I'm a
11:25
standup uh writer, actor, etc. Um actor
11:28
>> actor. Yes.
11:29
>> You in some [ __ ]
11:30
>> I am in some [ __ ] I'm in a I'm in a um
11:33
I'm in an indie comedy that premiered at
11:35
South by Southwest this year.
11:37
>> Um and it's doing the festival circuit
11:39
right now. So hopefully it'll get out to
11:42
a streamer distributor at some point.
11:44
But uh yeah, it's super cool. It's a
11:46
very cool like buddy comedy coming of
11:48
age uh centered around these two high
11:50
school friends who are like classic
11:51
buddy comedy trying to get laid the
11:53
night before high school and that's like
11:54
kind of my character driving energy and
11:56
they come up with this plan uh to get
11:58
into the girl sleepover by dressing as
12:00
trans women because people don't check
12:01
that [ __ ] anymore kind of playing on the
12:03
conservative stereotypes of it and then
12:05
in the process of doing this like me and
12:07
my friend uh go through this plan and
12:10
she realizes in the process that she's a
12:12
trans woman
12:13
>> so it starts off with these like two
12:14
like guys
12:14
>> cool okay so it It kind of it's touching
12:17
into like the kind of white chicks.
12:20
She's the man kind of
12:21
>> trope. Yeah. Super bad. That kind of
12:22
stuff. But then spoiler
12:24
>> takes this twist where she realizes
12:25
she's a trans woman and then it's sort
12:27
of about this coming of age and her
12:29
finding herself and then this friendship
12:30
rekindling like reconnecting after this
12:32
like you know
12:33
>> thing. You play a high school sis boy.
12:36
>> Yes. I played the I played the like uh
12:39
endlessly annoying uh says a million
12:42
gross things a minute uh high school sis
12:43
boy which was a ton of fun to do.
12:45
>> It was so much fun. The whole cast
12:46
>> they let you improvise. They let you
12:47
riff.
12:48
>> They did let me do a little bit of that.
12:49
Yeah. Like totally like the the director
12:50
the writer and director Shiv McCarthy is
12:52
a trans femin non-binary director who's
12:54
incredible and like uh just was like so
12:57
down to let me and the other actors like
13:00
play with the material and also like you
13:01
know do some word perfect takes but also
13:03
do some where we like found the
13:04
characters a bit more or like found the
13:06
energy in the scene. So yeah, it was a
13:08
great experience with that. The whole
13:09
cast and crew was like queer or trans
13:11
barring like maybe two or three people
13:13
but like
13:13
>> even the catering
13:14
>> even the catering. Yes, exactly. No, it
13:17
was um it was pretty sick. So, um, yeah.
13:20
So, look out for that. Look out for
13:21
that. Hopefully, it'll hit a
13:22
>> That's like a Oh, like a Oh, that's
13:24
interesting how that works now.
13:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's like, so I mean
13:27
there's a world where it could go to
13:28
theater like a theatrical release, but
13:30
like most movies don't really get that
13:32
anymore. So, I would imagine it would
13:34
just get
13:35
>> But I'm not involved in that part of the
13:36
process. So, who knows?
13:37
>> No idea. That's No, that's cool.
13:38
>> Yeah. South by Southwest is so
13:40
fascinating to me because it's like um
13:43
here's here's a a trans coming of age
13:45
movie and here's a new telephone.
13:50
>> It was crazy. So we were like yeah it's
13:52
in Austin and like to your point it's
13:53
like for anybody that doesn't know it's
13:54
a massive festival that's like film and
13:57
TV music and then just generally like
14:00
science
14:01
>> or like engineer like I don't know tech
14:04
like I don't even know like just general
14:05
like tech [ __ ] So then there was this
14:07
whole uh I don't know exhibit for lack
14:09
of a better word outside that was for
14:11
Rivon which is like an electric car
14:13
>> and they had just it was just a lot just
14:15
an empty lot that looked like it would
14:17
have been like you know waiting for
14:18
construction and they had this huge dirt
14:20
pile and people were in line drive over
14:23
it with the Rivon. I was like line
14:25
around the block. I was like what is
14:26
this festival like what who is waiting
14:28
for this?
14:29
>> I' I I've seen a version of that at the
14:32
Javitz Convention Center. They they have
14:34
like a Jeep thing. I've seen that car
14:36
thing where like people were like,
14:37
"Yeah,
14:38
>> but it was like it would be like one
14:39
thing if it was like a big monster truck
14:41
or something that you like, oh, let's
14:42
try this." But it was it's just a Rivon.
14:43
It's just an electric car.
14:44
>> They should have they should you should
14:46
be allowed to like drive a monster truck
14:48
around, but they should have like a
14:50
separate entire like road and highway
14:52
system just for people with monster
14:54
trucks.
14:54
>> Yeah. And they let you go. It
14:56
>> be so funny if you're like in traffic
14:58
and it's just like these like big Yeah,
15:00
that's that's funny.
15:01
>> Or they should let you drive over other
15:03
cars.
15:03
>> Right. Right. It's cuz you're that tall.
15:05
>> Yeah,
15:05
>> that would be nice.
15:06
>> I mean, if the wheels are if they made
15:08
the wheels big enough and soft enough in
15:10
a way where like it wouldn't squ like
15:12
>> totally the surface area is spread
15:13
enough and you literally just get driven
15:15
over by you know what I mean? That' be
15:17
sick.
15:17
>> Like why is it dark all
15:20
>> you do feel it does shake.
15:21
>> Oh, you do feel it. That's
15:22
>> it. It does injure you. Yeah.
15:24
>> Yeah. Yeah. But that was cool. That was
15:26
cool. Um Yeah. And then otherwise I'm
15:27
just I'm doing standup. I'm doing stand
15:29
up in the city. I'm on tour this fall,
15:31
so I'm excited about that. We did some
15:33
similar spots last year, I think. Didn't
15:36
you did some of the Helium rooms?
15:37
>> Oh, yeah.
15:37
>> Yeah. Yeah.
15:38
>> Yeah. Were you like see on the calendar
15:40
or something or like
15:40
>> I I think I saw Or maybe one time I saw
15:42
you. We had talked about like we had
15:44
both done like cuz did you do Helium in
15:45
Atlanta or did I make that up?
15:46
>> Yeah, I did all of them except for the
15:48
new Seattle one.
15:49
>> Oh, nice. Okay, cool. So, did you do
15:50
Indie as well?
15:51
>> Who know? Yes.
15:52
>> Yeah. And then like Good Nights and uh
15:54
and uh Cap City.
15:55
>> Yes.
15:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. I did like the same run of
15:57
those rooms. Yeah. Great. They were all
15:58
great. I really I really enjoyed them. I
16:00
I had a I had a good time. I
16:01
>> Standup comedy is fun.
16:02
>> It's great.
16:03
>> That's how we met. We met at a um Well,
16:06
we met at a mic.
16:07
>> Didn't we meet at that roof mic? Maybe.
16:08
>> I think I thought I met you. Oh, you
16:11
know, I feel like I saw you at Birth of
16:12
Venus early on. I maybe I guess I
16:16
already knew you. What did we meet?
16:17
>> I I'm trying to think.
16:18
>> Baby, the roof mic.
16:19
>> Maybe there was one like kind of early
16:21
that was like
16:23
>> there was so many people there and like
16:24
I like I think that was the first time I
16:25
saw Maggie Crane like it was like
16:27
>> right after coy
16:29
Papowski on the
16:30
>> Yeah. and Michelle Gold. Yeah. Yeah. So
16:32
maybe it was that but but I like all
16:34
that time is like such a blur. So it's
16:35
totally possible it's like any number of
16:37
those. Yeah.
16:38
>> It's so funny like you know you do do an
16:40
open mics and then it's like a few years
16:41
go by and you're like oh you're also on
16:42
tour at the same stage.
16:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's really
16:45
cool. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get to go back
16:48
to Philly often?
16:49
>> Uh I go back pretty often. Yeah. I mean
16:50
it's for standup. Um I try not to just
16:53
like
16:54
>> hit it over and over again. Um but I go
16:57
back to see like friends and family and
16:59
stuff. Where you from again?
17:00
>> Savannah, Georgia.
17:01
>> Oh,
17:02
>> yeah. You there much
17:03
>> somewhat. So, my parents actually moved
17:04
to Atlanta with uh like a year and a
17:06
half ago. So, when I
17:07
>> your show at
17:08
>> Yeah, they did. They sure did. They My
17:10
dad brought some of his friends from
17:11
work. They had a great time. So, that
17:12
was cool. Um and yeah, but I would go I
17:16
I do miss Savannah a little bit cuz it's
17:17
like such a cool city. But um
17:19
>> draw you as an elder.
17:20
>> And I Yeah. And I went back uh
17:24
for a show in March which was fun. No,
17:27
February. It was fun. It was a good
17:28
time. By the way, I'm not good at
17:29
drawing, so this is insulting is because
17:31
I have no idea what I'm doing.
17:32
>> No, me neither. That's fun, though.
17:33
>> You went back. That's That's what's up.
17:35
That's fun.
17:36
>> Yeah, it was cool. It was funny, though.
17:37
Like, uh,
17:38
>> so I can't multitask, so this podcast is
17:40
about to become unlistable.
17:43
>> I know. I was just thinking that I was
17:44
like, "Oh, I'm talking and trying to
17:45
draw." Um,
17:46
>> yep. It's like Hot Ones.
17:48
>> It's like Hot Ones, except uh instead of
17:50
having hot wings, I just poorly draw a
17:52
hot wing.
17:53
>> I have no idea. I just tried to draw
17:54
your hat and I [ __ ] it up immediately.
17:56
>> Hats are hard. Hats are hard. Anything
17:58
that's like kind of like dimensional
18:00
coming off the face.
18:01
>> I guess I'm gonna turn into an Elder
18:02
Ring hat. The hat will be The hat will
18:04
be a hat.
18:06
>> Um, but yeah. No, Savannah is cool.
18:10
>> I'm doing a couple other like southern
18:12
cities.
18:12
>> [ __ ] stupid.
18:16
>> That's what's up.
18:16
>> Yeah.
18:17
>> Uh, yeah. Nico generally has stuff going
18:21
on.
18:21
>> Yeah.
18:22
>> Yeah. You'll [ __ ] find him on [ __ ]
18:24
>> You'll find me. I'm on Instagram. I'm on
18:27
uh YouTube. I'm on
18:29
>> You know what I thought was so funny?
18:30
And I don't you don't have to um you
18:32
don't have to cosign my making fun of
18:34
this, but I I loved that you did the
18:37
Netflix thing and it wasn't on Netflix.
18:40
>> Didn't you do that?
18:41
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
18:42
>> It's on YouTube.
18:43
>> It was on Netflix's YouTube channel.
18:46
>> Yeah.
18:47
>> What's that called? Netflix. Uh
18:48
>> introducing
18:49
>> Yes.
18:50
>> So, I'm of course grateful for it cuz it
18:52
was like my first like big break and it
18:53
was like very cool. But it was
18:54
>> the diplomatic. It was with all that
18:57
being said, um it was very funny uh to
19:00
be like, "Oh [ __ ] like I'm doing this
19:02
thing for Netflix." And then they were
19:03
like, "Social media accounts." And I was
19:05
like, "Okay, still cool." Like,
19:06
"Whatever, that's still" and like, you
19:07
know, it's the new media age. Like, this
19:09
is where things are, whatever. And then
19:10
like they were like, "We're going to put
19:11
it out on all our socials like the night
19:12
after." And I think they've since fixed
19:15
it, but I was in the inaugural like
19:16
first one. So, I think they were like
19:18
testing some stuff. So, they only put it
19:20
out on YouTube and Facebook. I was like,
19:22
>> "On Facebook?
19:23
>> Why aren't you putting this on TikTok
19:24
and Instagram? What is happening? What
19:25
is happening? So, of course, I'm just
19:27
getting the worst the worst people in
19:30
the world finding this first. So, that
19:32
was a bit of a bummer, but it sounds
19:33
like they've maybe fixed it. But, yeah,
19:35
it's interesting. I mean, they did it
19:36
this year and there wasn't even a
19:38
festival. So,
19:39
>> Oh, the festival's by yearly.
19:41
>> Yeah, but they're apparently doing this
19:42
like showcase every year, but I'm like,
19:44
well, what's the point if the festival's
19:45
not going up? I don't know. To each
19:46
their own.
19:47
>> As you talk, I look at your teeth.
19:48
>> Not my circus, not my monkeys, as they
19:50
say.
19:51
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. But um
19:53
>> I uh
19:54
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
19:55
>> I did um uh just a By the way, credits
19:58
are a hat. I don't really Comedy credits
20:00
don't matter. Who cares? But um
20:03
>> they certainly don't matter like they
20:04
used to. That's for sure.
20:05
>> That's true. I mean like back then you
20:07
do Carson and then the forever they were
20:09
here to car
20:11
like or whatever. I don't
20:13
>> Well, it's even crazy now like I mean
20:15
like it used to be like okay if you have
20:18
you know one or two credits you can
20:20
start touring the small rooms in the
20:22
country on the club scene or like if
20:23
you've got three credits you could
20:24
probably start doing some of these
20:25
bigger room you know what I mean like
20:26
they just like it just like meant more
20:27
before and now it's like what's your
20:29
social media following so it's kind of
20:30
like okay well
20:32
>> I uh well that's that's to say uh oh
20:35
when I did I did just for laughs and
20:37
came out the video came out in VR Oculus
20:41
VR Yes. You did it the same year as
20:43
Sabrina Woo, right?
20:44
>> Yeah. Yeah.
20:44
>> Yeah. That's right. Because I I remember
20:46
like like seeing they had that big like
20:49
box on stage and was like, "What is
20:51
that?"
20:51
>> That's what it was,
20:51
>> right? Cuz it was like through Meta or
20:53
something. Were you there?
20:53
>> I wasn't there, but I just remember
20:55
seeing the clips from it. Yeah.
20:56
>> Yeah. They had um it's so funny cuz they
20:58
had like u they're like yeah it's going
21:00
to be released in VR and they had
21:02
cameras set up in like a circle making
21:04
you think that they're like capturing
21:05
like 3D footage or something but instead
21:10
uh if you were to watch it in VR it's
21:12
you in like a virtual reality room
21:15
>> and then there's this screen in the
21:16
room. You're just watching it. You're
21:19
just watching the YouTube video in VR.
21:22
>> The VR is you sitting in a room watching
21:24
the t watching
21:24
>> I think you could sit in the room. I
21:26
think it was standing only in the VR
21:27
room.
21:28
>> Crazy.
21:28
>> It's like a It was like
21:30
>> not even There's no reason for it.
21:32
>> It's also like who is who's clamoring
21:34
for VR comedy like that? Like where like
21:36
what is that? Cuz I just like don't see
21:38
what that's replacing.
21:39
>> Yeah. VR VR. Uh I think people thought
21:42
that and self-driving cars. I think
21:44
people like to take off.
21:46
>> That's next.
21:46
>> Well, have you seen those Whimos?
21:48
>> Oh, when when I was in Austin, I saw
21:51
>> Yeah, that was I saw one in Austin and
21:53
one in LA. I haven't seen them in New
21:54
York yet. don't think that they're going
21:55
to be able to do it here.
21:56
>> Yeah.
21:57
>> For multiple reasons. I feel like the
21:58
taxi drivers union would sooner kill
22:01
over and die than let that happen. But
22:02
uh the uh they freak me out.
22:05
>> I don't think I'd want to get in one.
22:06
I'd get too nervous that they would just
22:07
like stop working.
22:08
>> I mean this I don't mean to I don't mean
22:10
to put out false information, but I did
22:11
hear that they're [ __ ]
22:12
>> I believe it.
22:13
>> I heard I heard it's um I heard it's
22:16
like you get in and some guy elsewhere
22:18
is just driving based on the camera. But
22:20
I don't know. It's like it's like PR for
22:22
Google or whatever. But is that even
22:24
like I don't know. It's like is that
22:26
safe? Like how how good is like the
22:28
reaction time? What if the feed goes
22:30
like what then?
22:31
>> That's crazy.
22:32
>> That's a good question. No, I would
22:33
never get when that in that [ __ ] drawing
22:35
your face. Hold on. Wait. We got it.
22:37
>> I'm sort of drawing my Bloodborne guy
22:39
poorly.
22:39
>> How are you drawing yourself as a
22:40
Bloodborne guy?
22:41
>> Well, he has a top hat,
22:43
>> which is what the guy in Yarnum has.
22:45
>> I love that.
22:46
>> These fellas of Yarnum.
22:49
Um,
22:50
but yeah, no, it's it's uh those things
22:53
freak me out. I don't know. I just am
22:55
generally like so freaked by all the
22:58
tech wizards these days that I'm like
22:59
just like not that into anything they're
23:01
putting out.
23:01
>> I don't really [ __ ] with uh the AI.
23:04
>> Yeah, me neither. Me neither. I just
23:06
like don't I don't know. It just feels
23:08
so like none of it actually Nothing's
23:10
come out in a long Well, really ever,
23:12
but in a long time that feels like, oh
23:14
yeah, this is helpful. This is good.
23:16
This is going to make the world a better
23:17
place and easier to use. And I don't
23:19
know. I was just watching
23:20
>> making you look evil. You look so you
23:23
look so evil in this my in my drawing
23:25
right now.
23:25
>> Well, I have to take on the people of
23:27
Yarnum. So,
23:28
>> or the beast.
23:29
>> I give you the top hat as well.
23:30
>> The beast of yarn, I guess. Um, what was
23:32
I going to say? Oh, did uh did were you
23:35
a big like Succession fan?
23:36
>> No, I never watched Succession.
23:37
>> Okay. So, the the guy who wrote it,
23:40
Jesse Armstrong, he uh he came out with
23:44
a new a movie that's like very similar.
23:46
Uh but it's about these like four
23:48
billionaires that are living in or not
23:50
living. They're like doing a mountain
23:51
retreat. Uh it has Ramy Yousef, Steve
23:54
Pells.
23:57
I look like Shrek.
24:00
>> I [ __ ] I didn't even try with the
24:01
circle of the face.
24:04
>> Pretty excellent. Pretty excellent.
24:06
That's my That's my That's like a That's
24:09
like a caricature of you. Somebody who
24:11
hates you.
24:12
>> That's so funny.
24:13
>> It has only ever seen Shrek.
24:18
>> Um
24:18
>> I'm so bad at drawing. I would Yeah,
24:20
>> dude. Me, too. But um anyway, so the
24:22
movie No, no, you're kidding. The movie
24:23
is about these four billionaires that
24:25
live in or are staying in this mountain
24:27
retreat in uh the mountain somewhere.
24:29
And while this is happening, there's
24:31
like uh one of the guys has like this
24:33
massive AI that's like allowing for like
24:34
>> I think I saw the trailer for
24:35
>> Yeah. So he's just like putting out this
24:37
AI that like allows anybody to like just
24:38
make these like really good deep fakes
24:40
and it's causing like global unrest.
24:42
Like people are like going into war over
24:43
it and stuff, but they're like at this
24:45
retreat and it's just like this
24:46
interesting thing where like one of the
24:47
characters has the AI and the other
24:48
character has like the basically the AI
24:50
that like would filter and and tell
24:53
people whether or not it's real or fake.
24:55
So they're having this weird like thing
24:56
where they're like on both sides of this
24:58
like
24:59
they kind of like need each other, but
25:01
it's like this weird [ __ ] up thing
25:02
where like both billionaires like he
25:04
kind of wants his AI to get even more
25:05
unruly so that his stock price at like
25:07
like capping it makes it like better. So
25:10
it was just like a real window into like
25:11
oh none of them like obviously we
25:13
already know this but like none of them
25:14
are actually ever going to think about
25:15
anything but their own stock prices.
25:18
>> True.
25:18
>> Like even when the guy has like the the
25:20
type of AI that would be like blocking
25:22
certain things or safer, he's like still
25:24
waiting for the [ __ ] to to like ramp
25:26
his up to the point that his price goes
25:28
up. I don't It was just like an
25:29
interesting look at like,
25:30
>> oh, there's no winning with these guys.
25:32
Yeah.
25:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I I'm I'm glad
25:36
at least that it's still not I mean,
25:39
it's it's getting I'm glad it's still
25:41
not good enough to do certain things.
25:43
>> Yeah.
25:43
>> Uh
25:44
>> I'm glad it's
25:46
>> Yeah.
25:46
>> Yeah. Not fully [ __ ] us yet. I'm just
25:48
like nervous that there's no contingency
25:50
plan for like when it is ready and that
25:53
like millions of jobs just like go away
25:55
in a second and then it's like, well,
25:56
what are all those other people going to
25:57
do? You know, I've been thinking about
25:58
how almost every single thing like if we
26:01
just had like a like a universal federal
26:03
jobs and training program like it'd be
26:05
like all right like all right if you
26:07
lose your job it's like cool there the
26:10
government for sure will take care and
26:11
it's like even even if it's like okay so
26:14
like universal healthcare uh
26:17
strongly support etc. I do think that
26:19
there would be some temporary short-term
26:21
friction totally where people would lose
26:24
jobs because they should because they're
26:26
doing evil jobs, right? But I think that
26:28
those people have a sort of invested
26:30
interest in not letting it happen. But
26:32
if we had a jobs program, we're like,
26:34
don't worry, we'll put you back in your
26:36
feet immediately no matter what. Uh that
26:38
would let us do other [ __ ]
26:40
>> Totally. Totally. And you're so right
26:42
because like
26:43
>> with any of these massive overhauls like
26:46
will come like I think you put well like
26:48
a friction period where there's like
26:50
some people are going to get [ __ ] and
26:51
it's just like the people who have the
26:53
power are like preventing the real
26:55
solutions because they're the ones that
26:56
would get [ __ ]
26:57
>> Yes.
26:57
>> And they're [ __ ] other other people
26:59
over rather than just like letting that
27:01
and it's of course somebody that like
27:02
probably would get a great severance
27:03
package and be fine. Like it's not like
27:05
it's somebody that's got like a seuite
27:07
job, you know?
27:08
>> Absolutely. But yeah,
27:09
>> it's like it's like I don't like Okay,
27:11
this you don't need that much to live a
27:13
good life. You just need like food.
27:17
>> Yeah.
27:19
>> Like like I'm like I'm like
27:20
>> shelter
27:21
>> food, shelter, and like uh like
27:23
healthcare like
27:24
>> Yeah. Yeah.
27:25
>> Like it's like it's so crazy that like I
27:27
do think that like we could like if
27:30
billionaires I mean I don't listen I
27:32
still don't want billionaires to exist
27:33
but if everybody was like fed sheltered
27:35
and like had healthcare I'd be like I'd
27:38
be more like it's not as pressing.
27:40
>> Yeah. But totally like while while
27:42
people are outside then anyway
27:46
>> third mic
27:48
new Nico. New Nico just dropped.
27:51
>> Oh let's have let's have them have a
27:52
conversation.
27:54
This is a
27:55
>> These are two guys with hats on. This is
27:58
a This is my Yarn Arnum guy who's way
27:59
more swagged out with the wide pants
28:01
than they actually are usually, but
28:04
>> Oh, yeah. I should cut him out.
28:06
>> No, I was going to put him on mic.
28:09
>> So, I'm I'm opening up the mouth. I'm
28:11
going to have him talk.
28:13
What's up? It's me, Nico.
28:16
>> And this is other Nico.
28:18
>> We're both Nico.
28:20
>> Dude, what is up?
28:21
>> What do you name your characters when
28:22
you play? Do you give them fun names or
28:24
do you you just name them Benny?
28:26
>> Almost always I call them [ __ ] Hunter.
28:32
>> See that's a little bit of the remnants
28:33
of the like sort of old school video
28:35
games that I did not get having not
28:37
grown up a certain way.
28:38
>> Or I'll do like Skull Doctor or like
28:40
stuff like that. I do like to do I do
28:42
like to do I mean not like genuinely I
28:44
mean it's offensive in a certain sense
28:46
but like you know I'm Jewish so I'm
28:48
allowed to say that but I like I do like
28:50
if I if my character is like decked out
28:51
with like vampire hunting fit I do think
28:53
it's funny to like pretend like they're
28:55
actually hunting Jews or something
28:58
>> but uh yeah how about you
29:00
>> like the Jews are like not even in
29:01
Jarnham we get displaced even in
29:03
Jarnham. Um, what is your name?
29:05
>> I usually just do Nico, which I always
29:06
find kind of funny because it's just
29:07
like that's not the name of a guy that
29:09
lives in this area. It just makes me
29:11
laugh, you know? So, I like and I like
29:13
keeping it simple and I like going to
29:14
the page where it's like the guy and
29:16
then it's like Nico. It's just like
29:17
stupid. But
29:19
>> yeah,
29:19
>> I'm cur the you mentioned before about
29:20
this idea of creating a character is
29:23
like an early idea of gender
29:24
exploration. Yeah.
29:25
>> I'm curious
29:26
>> to hear more about that.
29:27
>> Yeah, I feel like it's uh I don't No, I
29:29
was just
29:30
>> we we we finish arts and
29:33
>> I think it's something that I um
29:36
I don't know I was thinking about this
29:38
too with like some of my ear like I was
29:40
a English major in college and I did
29:42
creative writing as like my minor and
29:43
like other classes and stuff and I I was
29:45
so frequently I would write and I wasn't
29:47
out yet. I was out I wasn't even out as
29:49
queer yet I don't think for most of my
29:51
college time and uh I would always write
29:54
these things from the perspective of a
29:56
man and or like even if it was like a
29:59
inner monologue or something it was
30:00
always a guy and I I never really I
30:02
never really thought about it that much.
30:04
I was just like, "Oh, like I guess it's
30:05
just what I'm writing or something." But
30:06
I that was never natural to me to write
30:08
from a woman's perspective. And it's so
30:10
interesting now to like like, "Oh,
30:12
that's like my inner monologue. That's
30:13
so interesting." But I same thing with
30:14
like when you're making like your
30:15
character on the Wii or something like
30:17
that. Like
30:18
>> I don't know, you have like actual you
30:19
have choice on what you are looking like
30:21
and like if you're and like you can
30:23
>> My my inner monologue is having my
30:24
eyebrows be way the [ __ ] up here.
30:27
Exactly.
30:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Having a huge afro.
30:29
Yeah. All those things. And like Yeah.
30:31
And I think like also it being a video
30:34
game and something that's like really
30:35
whimsical and playful, like you can sort
30:38
of get away with like doing stuff like
30:39
that without people being like, "Oh, so
30:41
you you're transgender then? Like that's
30:42
what you know what I mean?" Like you can
30:43
just play and be like, "Oh, this is
30:45
silly and I'm just like joking around or
30:47
I'm not." Or like whatever. Or like this
30:48
is just
30:49
>> the kind of character I want to create.
30:50
I feel like it's like a safe space to
30:51
start exploring stuff like that without
30:54
>> a lot of scrutiny.
30:55
>> That's kind of interesting cuz um I'm
30:57
sure you've seen I've kind of been like
30:58
railing against people being like it's
31:00
just a joke. Yes, I was I was just
31:02
looking through your uh the like slides
31:03
and I just like so agree with all that
31:05
you said about that.
31:06
>> I appreciate that, but I didn't bring it
31:07
up just to pat myself on the back as
31:09
much as you're kind of making me go like
31:10
this idea. You're like, "Oh, I'm just
31:12
kidding." But then you're actually
31:13
trans. And so that's an interesting
31:15
opposite side of the coin.
31:17
>> Yeah. Like uh
31:19
>> Yeah. Like what I guess what your
31:21
character what your friend's character
31:22
in the movie is doing what you're saying
31:23
where they're like putting on the dress
31:25
then going haha and then they're like
31:26
wait.
31:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's a
31:28
lot of people I mean I was having this
31:29
conversation with somebody about like
31:32
um like the you know conversation around
31:35
like gay people playing gay roles, gay
31:37
people writing gay roles, things like
31:38
that and like where those lines are and
31:40
like where where our extensions as an
31:42
actor can reach like can we play
31:44
somebody who's gay if we're not and
31:46
should we and like all those
31:46
conversations. And I was, you know, I I
31:49
think I had like a pretty
31:52
drawn line on that in that I thought it
31:55
was like I don't know. I prefer when and
31:58
I think this comes out of doing comedy
31:59
and like here and you and I both know
32:00
like we hear so many people tell
32:02
horrific jokes about trans people, queer
32:04
people, whatever. And it's like I
32:05
promise you it's going to be funnier
32:06
coming from us and I promise you it's
32:09
going to be more fun because you're not
32:10
going to be like is this person
32:11
threatening? Like it's going to be okay.
32:12
So all this to say I think I had kind of
32:14
like a hard line in my mind about like
32:16
what that was. But then I had a friend
32:17
talk to me about when she first played
32:19
her first gay role, she didn't realize
32:20
she was gay until she started playing
32:21
this character and was like really
32:23
diving into it. And so I was like, "Huh,
32:25
that's like an interesting thing." But
32:26
it kind of goes back to what I was just
32:27
saying with like until you like play
32:29
with it, you might not know because
32:31
we're not, especially these days, like
32:32
nobody's going to be encouraged to
32:34
explore. So like you kind of have to
32:36
find these like weird little natural
32:38
places to like dip your toe in that are
32:40
like sort of innocuous.
32:41
>> Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, if I
32:43
heard somebody try to do your material,
32:45
I'd be like, "You're not a youth soccer
32:47
coach. What the hell?"
32:49
>> You're not 55. What the [ __ ]
32:51
>> I'm talking about
32:54
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. That dipping your
32:56
toe in is really interesting. Yeah.
32:58
>> I um I do think that like arts and
33:00
crafts is I mean, maybe not maybe not
33:03
this, but uh but I've been trying like
33:05
>> mine's more craft than art right now.
33:07
Let me say that.
33:09
I I did that that that dig. I mean, you
33:12
know, I consider myself to be not I know
33:15
NB in a certain loose way. Yeah. Very
33:18
frog core NB in a certain sense. Um but
33:21
I do think that arts and crafts is a
33:23
more maybe classically feminine or
33:25
something in certain angles. I've been
33:27
trying to explore that.
33:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, I have like
33:32
I never felt very artistic as a kid and
33:35
I was always so blown away that so many
33:37
of like the girls in my class just like
33:38
sort of had an an instinctual
33:40
understanding of drawing or like had a
33:43
were good at coloring is under lines or
33:45
like I was like when did everybody learn
33:46
bubble lettering? I didn't learn that.
33:48
Like who taught you that? You know, just
33:49
and I'm feeling so like on the outs with
33:50
that. But so you're so right. I think
33:52
there is like a
33:53
>> you're having gender dysphoria cuz every
33:54
time you try to do the bubble letter you
33:55
draw the cool S by accident.
33:57
>> Damn it. Damn it. Oh, this is too
33:59
awesome. Too much swag. What's going on?
34:02
>> Um,
34:03
>> do you have Do you have T-boy swag?
34:04
>> I think so. I think so. Yeah. Hell yeah.
34:07
>> Yeah. Um,
34:08
>> I would say so.
34:08
>> Thank you. Thank you. I I actually was
34:10
just at uh I was at uh T- Boy Wrestling
34:12
over the weekend that Marley Goder
34:13
hosted.
34:14
>> Not familiar.
34:15
>> You don't know Marley?
34:16
>> Uh no, I don't know the um the wrestling
34:18
thing.
34:18
>> Oh, yeah. Okay. But yeah, Marley's so
34:20
funny. But she's she's so good. And uh
34:22
anyway, it's just like they started it
34:23
in LA. They have like trans dudes of LA
34:26
and they started a chapter here.
34:27
Transitions of New York and they do like
34:28
tea boy wrestling like I don't know how
34:30
many times a year but it's just like
34:31
it's sort of WWE style where it's like
34:34
kind of performative but then there's
34:35
other ones that are like actual
34:37
wrestlers. Um so it was like just like
34:40
an all day thing where they like at $3
34:42
bill they got this like big wrestling
34:43
ring and they had guys like wrestling
34:45
each other uh either like doing these
34:47
like kind of playful sort of more uh
34:49
performative ones or like actually
34:50
wrestling. Um
34:51
>> this double kayfabe of both gender and
34:54
wrestling is that's an interesting
34:55
space.
34:56
>> Yes, it was cool. And then there was and
34:57
it was just like so wild to be around
34:59
that to get on back to T boy swag. It
35:00
was so cool to be around that many like
35:02
>> trans guys cuz that's just like rare to
35:05
be all of us in the same place or like
35:07
just us and it was just not that was
35:08
just cuz obviously there was a ton of
35:09
other people there too but it was just
35:10
like
35:11
>> it was like a te boy swag overload. It
35:13
was pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
35:15
>> It was cool though.
35:16
>> You get uh you get enough tea boys and
35:19
we get people with Tourette's in a room
35:20
they start to drink each other like
35:22
Alexexas or whatever. Um, but uh with
35:25
enough tea boys, I'm curious if like if
35:27
you got enough people doing like topical
35:29
tea creams, people start to rub into
35:31
each other and you get kind of this we
35:33
all turn into the
35:34
>> penguin like how penguins do and but
35:36
it's like uh like this glowing aura,
35:39
>> right? We just all become like one big
35:40
mega monster. Yeah, exactly. No, that's
35:43
Yeah. No, if they if you get enough tea
35:44
boys in a room, an arm wrestling contest
35:46
will start. That's what it is. It will
35:48
start.
35:49
>> That's so interesting. cuz I um I I
35:52
guess like uh I've tried I'm discon I
35:55
guess I uh I have a lot of the like uh
36:00
core masculineish memory or the boy
36:03
memories of like playing Halo with the
36:06
friends and stuff like that. And I guess
36:07
I haven't really thought about how those
36:10
inform gender. Uh so that's interesting
36:12
to hear.
36:13
>> Yeah. I don't know.
36:14
>> Yeah. I think that there's like a lot of
36:16
like I don't know um like uh seeds
36:20
planted in your like middle and high
36:21
school years for like how people
36:24
socialize and you know like the way that
36:25
we're taught to socialize on gender
36:27
lines is like really strong um and
36:29
something that we all have to like work
36:30
to unpack and un you know undo and
36:32
things um but it's definitely something
36:34
I think a lot about because I just like
36:36
I've been rec wrestling with this um
36:38
this anger I had as like a as an
36:40
adolescent that was like so ex like in
36:44
opposition to all of these things. I
36:46
like genuinely like to the point that I
36:47
was like I think it's like this is gonna
36:49
sound insane and I know this is insane
36:51
but to the point where I'd be like I
36:52
kind of hate when guys are friends with
36:53
each other. Like what does that even
36:54
mean? But it was just me being like oh
36:56
I'm mad that I'm not able to live my
36:58
life as a boy who has a friend who's
36:59
another boy.
37:00
>> There's a jealousy. It's like a
37:01
>> jealous uh uh repressed Christian gay
37:05
guy.
37:05
>> Totally. Totally.
37:06
>> By the way, little idea. I was I was uh
37:10
flying in a plane and I like I saw the
37:12
pilot and something about the pilot made
37:14
me think this but I was like if you're
37:16
if you're a repressed gay Christian man
37:19
the worst life path you can do is become
37:21
like an evil Republican and the best
37:23
life path is become a pilot.
37:24
>> Totally. Totally.
37:27
>> And then somehow all of your flight
37:28
attendants are gay men. That's strange.
37:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. Then I met a pilot after a
37:34
show uh who was like just staying at the
37:37
same hotel and we're at the bar and he
37:39
start he's like talking to me about how
37:40
like you know gay sex is like a sin and
37:42
whatnot and he's like I just love the
37:44
sky. I'm like brother you're gay like
37:47
>> this isn't something two dudes will just
37:48
like talk about at the bar like I
37:49
promise you. Yeah.
37:50
>> I just need to go clear my head and he
37:52
goes flying for a thousand miles.
37:54
>> That's Yeah. It's also like I hope that
37:56
whenever I'm like, you know, 2,000 feet
37:58
in the sky that some guy isn't up there
38:00
being like, I just want to think about
38:02
having a sex all the time. Like that's
38:03
really you're going to crash. I think.
38:05
Yeah,
38:05
>> I think so. I think Well, you know, I
38:06
think about the Well, the opposite side
38:08
of that coin is like maybe if we did
38:10
live in a like a more free society, less
38:13
people would want to be pilots. So, we
38:16
do need a fuel.
38:17
>> Yes. Yes. Or we just get rid of planes
38:20
altogether and go to highspeed rail.
38:22
>> That'd be sick.
38:22
>> That would be awesome. Awesome.
38:24
>> That would be awesome. I don't know
38:24
about you, but like whenever I travel
38:25
for shows, I [ __ ] hate flying.
38:28
>> Yeah, I uh I'm getting a little bit
38:30
better at it.
38:31
>> I don't mind so much like the actual
38:32
being on the flight if it's not too
38:34
long. Like I like long long flights can
38:35
be tough, but like it's not the flying
38:37
necessar, but just the whole day. It's
38:39
just the whole fiasco of going to the
38:40
airport. It's such a mess.
38:41
>> About to trade you this idea related to
38:43
what we've been talking about, but I
38:44
bring a Nintendo Switch and I vibe out.
38:47
I don't know if you have a Switch. I
38:48
don't have a Switch, but that is
38:49
something I've talked to some other
38:50
comics about who like bring it on tour
38:52
with them and they like just rave about
38:54
it. I also like I
38:57
>> this gets back to like my like young
38:59
shame of being like a closeted kid, but
39:01
I remember being in like middle school
39:03
and I have a younger brother and my
39:06
brother got a DS at some point and that
39:08
was like a real friction point for me
39:09
cuz I was like feeling all this like
39:12
anger that he gets to be treated like a
39:14
boy in the family but I don't and like
39:16
whatever and like that you know and it's
39:17
you know manifesting as like you know in
39:19
a childish way. I'm jealous of this gift
39:20
but I would like when he would go to bed
39:22
I would like play it sometimes. So, I
39:23
love playing Super Mario and like the
39:25
just like regular Mario game where he
39:26
runs and hits the question marks with
39:28
his head and all that stuff. So, I
39:29
definitely want to switch for that
39:30
reason cuz I would love to get back into
39:32
into some Mario games.
39:33
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, there's some there's some
39:35
great stuff.
39:36
>> Highly recommend. Not there's nothing
39:38
that's quite from software core. So,
39:40
they're going to they're doing a uh
39:42
another I don't know if it's like Elder
39:44
Ring Night Reign, but something similar
39:46
that's like that kind of multiplayer PVP
39:48
like style that's going to be for DS or
39:51
uh I said DS Switch in like 2026.
39:54
>> Oh, cool. That'll be Switch too though,
39:55
I imagine.
39:56
>> Yeah, which is like what $5,000 or
39:57
something that kind of I don't have
39:59
money like that PS5. I got to get my
40:01
damn bag.
40:04
I speaking of bag, uh I guess like
40:07
touring is sort of the I'm trying to
40:09
figure that out more. Like I I've
40:11
started booking my own [ __ ] so I'm like
40:13
trying to figure I just I don't know.
40:15
>> Oh, wait, by the way, I'm coming to
40:16
Denver, Chicago, San Francisco, and
40:19
other places.
40:20
>> Those are great. Those are great places
40:21
to be. Where where are you doing in San
40:22
Francisco?
40:23
>> The Lost Church.
40:24
>> Nice. Yeah. Cool. I did I did
40:26
Cornerstone Berkeley when I was there,
40:28
which was cool. That was a good venue.
40:29
Um, haven't done Denver yet and I'm
40:32
doing Color Club in Chicago in November.
40:35
>> Oh, cool.
40:35
>> Yeah. Which I'm excited about. Yeah.
40:37
>> I think I heard about that. Yeah. But,
40:39
uh,
40:39
>> but yeah. No, I think uh I'm I hear you.
40:41
Like I I feel like I'm also at the place
40:43
right now where I'm trying to figure out
40:45
like how to
40:45
>> They're in similar spots.
40:47
>> Totally. Yeah. And like trying to keep
40:48
that steady stream and like both of us
40:50
being in a place where it's like, okay,
40:51
I have the material. I've got I've got
40:52
the stuff. I want to go tour it. And
40:54
then just like that barrier being like,
40:56
okay, how do I get the
40:57
>> You're doing an hour, right? You're
40:58
doing that. Nice. What's the name of
41:00
your show?
41:00
>> Uh, right now the show is Go Wish.
41:02
>> Yeah. Right now the show itself is
41:03
untitled, but the tour is called The We
41:05
Lad Tour.
41:05
>> The We Lad.
41:06
>> Yeah.
41:07
>> Which is a reference to a joke I tell at
41:09
the end of the show. So, you're going to
41:09
have to come see what that's all about.
41:11
Um, but yeah, I I'm definitely also at
41:14
that place where I'm like trying to
41:15
figure out how to just like start
41:17
feeding a touring business that can like
41:19
keep feeding itself cuz I would love to
41:20
be able to like it just feels like good
41:22
consistent money that also is like more
41:24
in our control because like so much of
41:26
Yeah. Well, that for sure. But like I
41:28
don't know, it's just so hard that so
41:29
many especially on like the acting and
41:30
writing side, it's just like so much out
41:32
of your control.
41:33
>> Yes.
41:33
>> And you can't like generate it yourself.
41:34
>> Standup comedy is purely this is what I
41:37
wanted to say on the stage.
41:38
>> Yes. And it feels like such an honest uh
41:40
it feels like an honest uh handshake
41:42
deal where it's like you paid tickets,
41:43
you got a seat and a drink and I have an
41:45
hour's worth of things to tell you and
41:46
then we can go our separate ways and
41:48
like that is that feels like a fair
41:50
shake, you know?
41:50
>> Is there a theme to your show? Yeah,
41:53
it's definitely like a, you know, I
41:54
wrote a lot of it with, uh, in the early
41:57
days of my like transition. Uh, and it's
42:01
been sort of just a reflection on like
42:03
the ways that things change and how
42:06
situations in my life changed and like
42:07
what I expected versus what happened and
42:09
just like
42:10
>> it's all about Bloodborne for an hour.
42:11
>> Yeah. Right. Right.
42:13
>> So, you start in Central AR, everybody
42:14
gets up and leaves. Yeah.
42:17
>> One person's like more. Um but yeah, so
42:20
it's a lot about my transition and also
42:22
just like stories along with that and uh
42:24
kind of centered around this like crazy
42:26
time in my life around the time that we
42:27
met actually where I started doing stand
42:29
up for real in New York and also uh
42:31
started coaching soccer and came out and
42:33
so it was just like a lot of change in
42:34
my life all at once and so sort of on
42:36
the backdrop of this like you know new
42:38
life happening and coaching and children
42:40
and parents and just like all these like
42:42
different sort of soccer thematic
42:44
elements that are kind of weaved through
42:45
but like largely
42:46
>> I only know you like this by the way
42:48
like I don't know what your world was.
42:50
Totally. I got no idea what you prior to
42:53
coaching soccer. No clue what
42:54
>> Yeah. Yeah. I Well, so I was a
42:55
parallegal for two years. That was
42:56
terrible. Um but before that it was a
42:58
lot more soccer, but I was just playing
42:59
instead of coaching. But um
43:00
>> yeah.
43:01
>> Yeah. That was one thing that was like
43:02
uh I feel very grateful for. I don't
43:04
know. When I first I don't know about
43:05
you, but like when I first got here,
43:07
>> I was like, "God damn it, all these
43:09
people went to NYU and they already know
43:10
each other and they got a leg up and
43:12
they got this and that and I just don't
43:13
know what to do and like I feel like I'm
43:15
behind and all this stuff." And then as
43:17
like I've, you know, matured a bit in my
43:19
career and just like been able to like
43:21
be around it longer, I'm like, "Thank
43:23
God I showed up when I did." Because for
43:25
me personally, like just like being
43:27
already out and not having to deal too
43:29
much. Like I think I was like going
43:31
under my old name for like maybe 2
43:33
months when I was first here and then I
43:34
like,
43:35
>> you know, really started coming out and
43:36
I think most like 99.9% of people I know
43:38
in the scene now would have not even
43:40
probably seen me before that. So like
43:43
that for like on a personal level was
43:44
good, but also just like I was like,
43:45
"Oh, for anybody, I don't know that I
43:47
would have wanted to be doing stand up
43:49
in front of people that I knew in
43:50
college and like still today." Like it's
43:51
just so hard to shake those opinions of
43:53
you. You know what I mean? Like it's
43:54
just like you really get stuck in their
43:56
mind as the person they knew when they
43:57
were 20.
43:58
>> Yeah. I mean, yeah. A lot of friend
43:59
groups and a lot of that is is still NYU
44:02
oriented. Yeah. I I do think that you
44:04
and I did both ride sort of the the
44:06
immediate like postcoid excitement and
44:09
wave totally energy and it was like a
44:11
summer too. So it was like that was a
44:14
summer 2021 in the New York comedy scene
44:17
was
44:17
>> booming
44:18
>> amazing. Yeah.
44:19
>> Like the rooftop show. The very first
44:20
show. Not very first show.
44:23
>> One of this second show I did was with
44:25
Sabrina Woot. I met them like
44:26
immediately.
44:27
>> Yeah. I met them I totally I had a
44:29
really similar I met them almost
44:30
immediately as well as an at an open mic
44:32
and they were talking about playing
44:33
basketball and I was like yo I feel like
44:34
we are like kind of similar vibe here
44:36
and I think we would uh really get along
44:37
and that's how we became friends and uh
44:39
so yeah but that summer I I feel you
44:41
like it was like it felt in hindsight
44:44
very magical and serendipitous to arrive
44:46
when we did because it was like this
44:49
postco boom where people were excited to
44:51
be out. There were a million in one
44:52
shows probably too many but there were
44:55
so many on roofs outside anywhere. I
44:57
feel like we were going anywhere to get
44:58
stage time, Mike's shows, whatever. And
45:00
um it was just like such a I don't know
45:03
like it felt like
45:05
>> the like industry pressures of things
45:08
that like I think sort of loom over
45:10
young younger people in their careers in
45:12
entertainment like weren't back yet or
45:14
something. So there was no like
45:17
>> there was no like chasing anything like
45:18
nobody was nothing was going on yet. So
45:20
it was just pure like oh we have this is
45:22
it. But thank God because we've been
45:24
inside for two like a year and a half
45:26
and like now we're back and um yeah, it
45:28
felt like a really good time to be here
45:29
because I think also like everybody was
45:31
back doing mics because it was like oh
45:33
this is the one thing that's like back
45:34
and happening. So like I also got to
45:36
meet a lot of people that like do more
45:37
improv or sketch but like they were like
45:38
I guess I'm doing standup now because
45:39
that's all that's going on. But it was a
45:41
good time to like meet a ton of people.
45:43
>> Yeah. people kind of what you're saying
45:44
with the industry. People talked about
45:46
how before COVID the New York comedy
45:49
scene I guess had been like really sort
45:50
of entrenched with a certain series of
45:52
gatekeepers and like I don't I don't
45:54
know exactly what it was like but that's
45:56
what I heard but then like very very
45:58
egalitarian in the immediate time frame
46:00
following. I would say that um maybe now
46:04
luckily I would say that luckily you and
46:06
I have kind of uh escaped the that
46:09
space. Um but I do think that is
46:11
stratified now maybe. Yeah,
46:13
>> that did settle back in.
46:15
>> I'm sure. Yeah, I I I similarly heard
46:17
other like things like that that it was
46:19
like just a little bit more intense or
46:20
scary or Yeah. that there were these
46:22
like social hierarchies that were
46:23
existing that is a bummer. But I'm glad
46:26
that co was able to like sort of like
46:27
wash that away a little bit at least in
46:29
the interim. But yeah, it seems like in
46:30
any case there's going to be I hope that
46:32
like I mean the only I as we were just
46:34
railing against tech and [ __ ] I I do
46:37
sort of think that the internet has sort
46:39
of both been uh and yeah, we're talking
46:41
to you. um
46:42
>> I was checking the time I remember you
46:44
said. Okay. Yeah.
46:44
>> Um has been like a a positive thing for
46:48
comedy in some ways in that it is like
46:50
taking away some gatekeepers, but it
46:51
also I think has been harmful in other
46:53
ways.
46:54
>> Um but I'm hoping
46:55
>> say anything to anybody. Yeah. Yeah.
46:57
>> Yeah. It's also just like I was just
46:59
listening to I opened for uh Mary Beth
47:01
Brown the other night and um
47:02
>> she's great. I like her Bell House.
47:04
>> Yeah, she's so good. and uh she was
47:06
talking about uh putting jokes on the
47:08
internet and stuff and then she like did
47:09
this one joke that was a little bit just
47:10
like edgier uhish not crazy just kind of
47:13
in her style of things and um she ended
47:16
it and then she was like now imagine if
47:17
I put that on the internet and that was
47:18
the first thing anybody had ever heard
47:20
me say and I was like oh my god I like
47:22
you have to think about it that way
47:23
sometimes like when you're just getting
47:24
fed into an algorithm like whatever like
47:26
joke you put out that's the first thing
47:28
yeah somebody's gonna hear you say and
47:29
so it's so hard to like
47:32
>> deal with that while also trying to have
47:35
artistic
47:36
uh I don't know credibility within
47:38
yourself and like wanting to like be
47:40
like I'm working on this for like a full
47:41
piece not like what's the first thing
47:42
somebody's going to hear me say on the
47:44
internet you know what I mean like so
47:45
like when you take it out of that
47:46
context I feel like that does hurt a lot
47:47
of like that's something that bums me
47:49
out with a lot of younger standups or
47:50
like or people that are newer like when
47:52
they they see it as like a clip game
47:53
rather than like a building your act and
47:55
building your voice and like you know at
47:58
the end of the day you have to come
47:58
perform in the room that's what the job
48:00
is and so I feel like a lot of people
48:01
like
48:02
>> focus on the wrong things
48:03
>> I think um cuz I you see people like I
48:06
saw couple people uh kind of go off the
48:11
rails talking about like you know
48:13
different comedy credit stuff or like
48:16
views and like I I just like saw some
48:18
like weird post and I was like what the
48:19
hell? Yeah. And um
48:21
>> I think that like people really get
48:24
mentally in the weeds about like going
48:27
viral or follower account or comedy
48:30
credits or stuff like that.
48:32
>> Yeah. And it's hard cuz it's like there
48:33
are people with power or gatekeepers,
48:36
you know, telling you like, "Sorry, like
48:38
you can't tour until you got 100,000
48:40
followers and a credit or whatever,
48:41
which is like
48:42
>> I I did literally get told that uh and I
48:46
understand where they're coming from,
48:47
but this one company was like, "Yeah, we
48:48
don't produce we're not doing production
48:50
on specials unless you have a million
48:52
followers." And I was like, "How do you
48:54
how do you think you get a million
48:56
follow?" But I mean, I I still
48:57
understood though. They're like, "It's
48:58
not a financially viable business for us
49:00
at this current moment cuz we would need
49:02
the comedian to be able to blast the
49:04
clips for marketing, you know,
49:05
>> which is tough cuz it's like
49:08
>> I like I can hear it. I can I mean
49:10
obviously like you know that makes sense
49:12
and in terms of like their
49:13
>> road to one mil
49:14
>> Oh yes, it starts today. Um and I I
49:18
don't know cuz it's like I was just
49:19
having this conversation with somebody
49:20
where I was like people say like oh yeah
49:23
like you put you know film the whole
49:24
thing you know even if you self-produce
49:25
a special then you can clip it up and
49:26
put it out. And I'm like, I don't want
49:28
to do clips for the rest of my life. I
49:31
just don't think I can do it. Like, I
49:32
want to work on something that's longer
49:34
than 90 seconds. And I obviously it
49:36
would be of a 90-second piece, but I
49:37
don't know. I just like And I know it's
49:39
like, okay, like it would exist in
49:41
totality somewhere. And like people if
49:43
they wanted to watch more, they could,
49:44
but I'm just like I just
49:45
>> You're not interested in doing a
49:46
special.
49:47
>> Oh, no. I definitely am.
49:48
>> Oh, okay.
49:49
>> I I am definitely interested in doing
49:50
But that's my point is like I'm I want
49:52
to work towards a longer piece. I want
49:53
to work towards that. Like that's what
49:54
I'm interested in. I'm not interested in
49:57
clips necessarily, even though I know
49:59
it's like unfortunately like a part of
50:00
the beast these days. But
50:01
>> I've only ever seen you do I guess the
50:03
short sets that we would do on like a
50:04
like a showcase show. So I'm curious
50:06
like in your longer set, are you doing
50:08
like stories? Are you doing like
50:10
>> Yeah, I have like three stories. Uh I
50:13
it's kind of like uh the way I organize
50:16
it in my mind is like five sections and
50:18
there's like three big stories that sort
50:21
of encapsulate like three of the five
50:24
sections and then the other two are sort
50:25
of like introductory conclusionary sort
50:27
of almost like an essay I guess if
50:28
you're going to like think like that.
50:30
>> Got kind of MLA stuff.
50:31
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got my sight while we
50:32
do. Everybody's got to stay for the work
50:34
we're cited.
50:34
>> Intro first story three main bullets.
50:37
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And we've come
50:38
to And in conclusion, um statement,
50:42
right?
50:43
>> Yeah. I love it.
50:44
>> Just Nico his thoughts. Yeah. But uh
50:48
yeah, so I have I have three longer
50:50
stories in it that I uh that are have
50:53
like and they didn't start super long,
50:54
but they've like sort of but they're
50:56
definitely like they they emblemize like
50:57
these moments in the set that feel like
50:59
they're like good time for a story.
51:01
>> Bless you. So, uh,
51:03
>> I had water gun anyway.
51:04
>> But yeah, it's definitely like that was
51:06
something that like from going from
51:07
doing shorter sets to like doing the
51:08
full hour was like, okay, like there's
51:10
got to be you can't I I wanted to like
51:14
have some like different lengths of
51:16
jokes to like space it out.
51:18
>> I know what you mean. I'm like I I still
51:20
just do oneliners the whole show, right?
51:22
So, I do um a little I do I have like a
51:25
I have a couple things that break up
51:27
that rhythm. Yeah. But um for the most
51:29
part it's just oneliners for an hour and
51:32
and I feel psycho sometimes.
51:34
>> Do you feel like you have like uh are
51:36
there are there like subg genres within
51:38
the oneliners that are like okay here's
51:41
like five about this thing and yeah
51:43
animals food right
51:45
>> Tourette's
51:47
uh harvesting the blood of a beast.
51:49
>> Yeah.
51:49
>> You know what I mean? Yeah,
51:50
>> it's honestly like like it literally
51:52
>> dead serious. Hold up.
51:55
>> I'm dead. Wait,
51:56
>> check. Look.
51:58
>> Fresh from the note cards.
52:00
>> We got we got animals. We got food. And
52:04
then later on we do for real actually
52:06
have beasts in blood.
52:07
>> Oh, I love that.
52:09
>> So, there is something about Bloodborne
52:10
in it for sure. Uh
52:12
>> well, I mean maybe you'll feel the same
52:14
way, but I feel like everything you do
52:17
gets drawn into the idea. Yeah. Yeah.
52:20
Yeah.
52:20
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
52:22
Like you have to leave yourself open to
52:23
pull from everything because you gotta
52:25
be able to um
52:26
>> But yeah, for sure. For sure. I'm
52:28
thinking about Bloodborne.
52:29
>> Yeah.
52:29
>> I have Wait. Okay. So, I have a question
52:30
for you too about just like So, how
52:33
early in the set do you typically like
52:35
let the audience know that you have
52:36
Tourette's?
52:36
>> I have to do it immediately.
52:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
52:38
>> Cuz I feel like I mean obviously I'm not
52:40
fully equating, but I think similarly
52:42
like I have something to tell them up
52:44
top to like contextualize what they're
52:46
going to see or like explain to them.
52:49
even in the first 10 seconds of this
52:50
podcast.
52:50
>> Yeah, I did. I know. I I'm sorry. Sorry
52:52
to uh have to do that always, but I I do
52:54
feel like it help like I I don't know
52:55
how you feel, but um I get in my head
52:58
about it sometimes about like addressing
53:02
it or not addressing it or like but like
53:04
but the Okay, so for me like you know
53:05
bringing up that I'm trans like I sort
53:07
of have to up top to contextualize the
53:09
jokes or just be like hey you need to
53:10
know this so that like you understand
53:11
what I'm talking about for the next like
53:12
hour or next 10 minutes or whatever it
53:14
is. Um, but also like in the early days
53:18
it was like necessary because I wasn't
53:20
like passing yet or I was like looking
53:22
more ambiguous. So like they would be
53:24
like like who what are we looking at?
53:26
And so I would have to like clarify for
53:28
so I felt like a real need to clarify up
53:29
top.
53:30
>> I'm not ready to laugh if I see somebody
53:31
and I'm like
53:32
>> what's going on here?
53:34
>> [ __ ] gender are you? I'm not laughing
53:36
until I know what your whole deal is.
53:37
Right. Right. But especially for like
53:39
audiences that aren't yours, like it's
53:41
like, okay, I have to like let you know
53:43
that I know what's going on, that I'm in
53:45
control, and that I'm okay with what I'm
53:46
about to talk about.
53:47
>> Yeah.
53:48
>> So that you feel at ease. And so I was
53:49
just curious cuz I I'm always curious
53:50
about like other comics who have like I
53:52
don't know, just similar like life uh
53:54
stories or things that they feel like
53:56
they need to or like do need to like
53:57
talk to an audience about like how
53:58
they're I don't know what they how they
54:01
feel about that process or when they
54:02
feel like it comes up most naturally.
54:04
But yeah,
54:05
>> you know, I was just thinking um I was
54:06
trying to think of other trans boy
54:09
comedian. Also, I like that you say te
54:11
boy instead of trans man. You're like
54:13
boy. Um uh are you like you might be the
54:17
most you might be one of the biggest
54:18
ones I know in terms of uh inflate your
54:22
ego.
54:22
>> Probably. I mean it's it's funny cuz
54:24
true Tourette's guys.
54:25
>> Right. Right. Right.
54:27
in the grand scheme of like uh trans
54:30
masculine people obviously like Sabrina
54:32
Woo also trans non-binary so like but
54:34
like in terms of like trans guy there's
54:38
a couple I mean like River Butcher but
54:39
he had a career before uh he
54:42
transitioned so he was like a very
54:43
well-known like lesbian comedian for a
54:45
long time and then
54:47
there's some other great like comics in
54:48
the scene and stuff but it's definitely
54:49
it's definitely a growing and
54:51
>> flourishing I'm I'm I I put you on the
54:53
back pedal or like or I put you on the
54:55
spot being like Hey, you're uh hey,
54:57
you're the you're the doing the best for
55:00
that. But I uh but no, I do think it's
55:02
um I guess my point there being like
55:05
>> uh you're getting some of the most
55:07
representation for that space in standup
55:10
comedy. I think that's and you're saying
55:12
like demonstrating that you're
55:14
>> chill about it and like are comfortable
55:17
and in charge and whatnot. I like I I
55:19
think that's great. I think that's like
55:20
important and you're doing cool stuff.
55:22
>> Thanks. Yeah, it's it's definitely
55:24
something I feel like I like I don't
55:25
know. It goes in waves where like
55:26
there's days or shows or audiences that
55:28
I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] Do I have it in me
55:30
today to get up there and tell these
55:32
people this?" And then I'm cursing
55:33
myself for not writing different jokes,
55:34
but I'm also like, "You're going on
55:35
tour. You have to work on these jokes."
55:37
Like, "These are the jokes that you
55:38
have. Like, these are the ones to work
55:39
on. Like, you're working towards writing
55:40
this hour or or you know, hopefully
55:42
taping this hour at some point. Like,
55:43
you got to work on these, right?" Like,
55:45
so it's such a mind game. But I I thank
55:48
you for saying that cuz I try to remind
55:49
myself that it is like there's not
55:52
anybody else doing this material,
55:54
>> right?
55:54
>> That goes for all of us, of course, but
55:55
like in terms of like the content
55:57
either, like it's just not
55:58
>> me and Dave Chappelle, I guess, but
56:03
>> the uh Yes. Well, I I was thinking of
56:05
what uh I was trying to make some sort
56:07
of alphabet mafia joke, but as if like
56:10
you're not the mafia. You're just like
56:11
the alphabet Olive Garden because you
56:13
like the you know what I mean? Something
56:15
like that. I don't really know the joke
56:16
I'm making there. Uh but the idea being
56:19
um if if you when it's not your
56:21
audience, that's also kind of like
56:23
somehow even more important in a way or
56:27
like and I guess
56:29
>> becomes this kind of thing where it's
56:30
like well you're just trying to be funny
56:32
and be yourself and so having this thing
56:34
of it being important is like I guess I
56:36
mean I also feel that sometimes with
56:37
like just with Tourette's.
56:38
>> Totally. Yeah. Um, but this angle of
56:41
like um it is still important and so if
56:44
you have a crowd of maybe like
56:45
Republican people, you being like,
56:48
"What's up?
56:49
>> I'm chilling." It's like it's like I
56:51
don't know.
56:52
>> Yeah. No, I Yeah, I I totally agree cuz
56:54
it's like it's, you know, when you're
56:56
playing for when I'm playing for my OD
56:57
audience, I do feel very like happy that
57:00
I get to perform stuff. Like one thing
57:02
that makes me very happy is when there's
57:03
like other trans guys there uh who are
57:05
like this is so cool. like I've never
57:07
heard comedy about us or from our
57:10
perspective. It's always like we're
57:11
getting punched down at, right? So like
57:12
that's always really meaningful to me.
57:14
And then when I go do shows for like,
57:17
you know, not my audience and maybe it's
57:19
just a bunch of straight people or
57:19
whatever, like I try to like not put so
57:22
much pressure on myself of like, okay,
57:24
this like this is important for them to
57:25
hear, but like not but like just go have
57:28
fun and like if I'm ever overthinking
57:30
like should I be doing it? Reminding
57:32
myself that it's like no, this is
57:34
important and that's why I should talk
57:36
about it.
57:36
>> Yeah. you know, so it's definitely like
57:39
a it's such a it's a constant
57:41
conversation I'm having to have with
57:42
myself to like cuz it's obviously like
57:43
built in like internalized stuff where
57:45
I'm like, "Oh, everybody hates this
57:47
about me, right?" And they don't want me
57:48
to talk about it. Like that's what they
57:49
they don't want me to hear about it. And
57:50
like it's just like an internalized
57:52
thing that I have to be like, "No,
57:52
that's not true."
57:53
>> I mean, no, no. Well, not to not to get
57:56
not to make you Oh, I think that is
57:59
true. I think there are some people who
58:01
>> No, totally. I mean, it's not not true.
58:04
Yeah. But I like and but it's funny cuz
58:06
like you know
58:07
>> that's how I felt until I saw you
58:09
>> the first person
58:11
they might be all right.
58:13
>> Uh but trans folks might be okay.
58:16
>> Yeah. The uh but yeah know it's um it's
58:20
tough right now too because it's like
58:23
yeah there really are people that are
58:24
like not down for this. So you also feel
58:26
like is there going to be I don't know
58:28
just so many people just like are I
58:31
don't know they just like react so like
58:32
reactionary or like afraid of a cuz the
58:34
reality is like you hear all this stuff
58:36
on the internet and on TV and whatever
58:38
about what's going on and I have no
58:40
doubt that and obviously we know it's
58:41
happening that these things are
58:42
happening on a micro and macro level but
58:44
at the same time like I am out in front
58:45
of audiences mine or not mine you know
58:48
five out of seven nights of the week or
58:50
whatever and it's like people are fine.
58:52
Yeah.
58:53
>> People like it. They laugh at it. Like
58:54
I've do I've done rooms for very
58:57
straight audiences and they are totally
58:59
like you just have to figure out which
59:00
jokes
59:01
>> they'll understand and that like aren't
59:03
too in the weeds on the identity stuff
59:06
that they'll be like what's happening
59:07
right now? Um and they like it. So like
59:09
I just so it's a weird like
59:12
>> I don't know like dissonance there too
59:14
where I'm like on a intellectual level I
59:16
know you're not you're supposed to maybe
59:18
they're saying you hate me but then I'm
59:19
here and you're loving this so like I
59:21
don't know what to make of that. So
59:22
that's another thing too that I try to
59:23
remind myself like
59:25
>> one thing also convincing people
59:27
something.
59:27
>> Yeah. I I mean I I definitely hope that
59:29
there are people that like persuasive
59:31
>> at least like leave by being like huh
59:33
I've never
59:35
>> heard that much about trans people
59:36
before and especially not a trans man.
59:37
We just don't have like as much
59:40
representation in media for better or
59:42
for worse. So um but it's definitely and
59:45
one another thing I love too is when
59:46
there's like
59:47
>> you said for better or for worse. Not
59:49
much representation in media as if that
59:50
could be good.
59:52
Well, if it was good representation,
59:53
that would be one thing. Yeah. Yeah.
59:56
>> But, uh, I'm like, okay.
59:57
>> One thing I do love is when there's like
59:59
a parent of a trans kid that is either
1:00:01
like by surprise or by choice come to
1:00:03
the show um, and come up to me like,
1:00:05
"Oh, my son's trans and like this is so
1:00:07
cool." Like that always means like the
1:00:08
world to me that like it's reaching the
1:00:11
trans people themselves, but like the
1:00:12
allies in their life are like excited by
1:00:14
this and like I don't know, want to
1:00:16
learn more about the person in their
1:00:18
life, which is cool.
1:00:18
>> Yeah. I don't talk about this too much.
1:00:20
I have I have multiple trans mask
1:00:21
relatives. Oh, no way. Like not
1:00:23
immediate family, but the extended
1:00:24
family. Yeah. Um, so yeah, which I'm I
1:00:27
mean I won't do it, but they're two two
1:00:29
different sides of the family, but they
1:00:30
both chose the same name, which
1:00:31
>> No way.
1:00:32
>> That's like so classic. Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:34
Yeah.
1:00:36
>> I um but uh Okay, what was I thinking?
1:00:39
Uh, oh, something interesting is, uh,
1:00:43
with, okay, with identity stuff, um, I
1:00:46
think that we've had a lot of
1:00:47
representation over the years in standup
1:00:50
with different identities of like, uh,
1:00:52
different ethnicities, different
1:00:53
disability, etc. And now, uh, with a lot
1:00:57
of those identities now, it leaves room
1:00:59
to go like I don't have to talk about
1:01:01
Tourette's. People kind of know
1:01:03
Tourette's and I can just go a different
1:01:05
way. Um, if you're a black comic, you
1:01:07
don't have to talk about being black,
1:01:08
right? But I do think that maybe like 40
1:01:10
or 50 years ago, it was like you kind of
1:01:12
had to talk about it, right?
1:01:13
>> I would say, however, for you now, uh, I
1:01:17
mean, you could try to,
1:01:20
um, like jump fully away, but you kind
1:01:22
of also can't because people don't
1:01:24
people haven't heard, right,
1:01:26
>> yet. So, you're kind of like,
1:01:28
>> uh, not pigeonhold. Um,
1:01:30
>> but you you get to slash have to.
1:01:35
Totally. I mean, that's something like
1:01:36
I, you know, it did earnestly come about
1:01:38
like this material came out of me
1:01:40
because I was like processing what was
1:01:43
happening in real time as I was starting
1:01:45
to transition and things were changing
1:01:46
and people were saying things to me and
1:01:47
whatever. And like um so like a lot of
1:01:50
it did naturally come out of that, but
1:01:51
like as I was performing more, it was
1:01:53
like I was just saying like it became
1:01:55
like that first 30 seconds became so
1:01:57
crucial from telling them what's going
1:01:58
on to telling the first punch line felt
1:02:00
like just like this like really and
1:02:02
crucial moment where it's like, okay, I
1:02:03
need to get everybody on the same page
1:02:04
as quickly as possible because you're
1:02:06
right, they don't necessarily know
1:02:08
what's happening, especially if you're
1:02:09
not somebody who's like
1:02:11
>> the type of trans person maybe they've
1:02:12
seen before. And again, like I said,
1:02:13
like there's just not as many trans
1:02:15
people are less likely to like be able
1:02:16
to know a trans guy just because. And
1:02:19
so, um, yeah, it's definitely something
1:02:22
that like I feel, yeah, there's like a
1:02:26
and also like when it comes to like some
1:02:28
of the stuff I want to talk about or
1:02:29
like childhood stories or like anything
1:02:30
that would like come maybe in the next,
1:02:33
>> you know, iteration of like material
1:02:34
that I have after this hour, like I feel
1:02:36
like it still will come up obviously
1:02:38
because that's like my perspective on
1:02:39
life and it's hard to like
1:02:40
>> you get to free yourself, you get to
1:02:42
establish a baseline and then from now
1:02:44
on you get to do whatever you want,
1:02:45
right?
1:02:45
>> Right. It kind of feels like Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:46
It's like, okay, here's my and like and
1:02:48
like the way that a lot of comics like
1:02:49
their first special is sort of their
1:02:50
like get to know me special or like
1:02:52
here's who I am sort of thing. I feel it
1:02:53
feels like ripe for that where it's
1:02:55
like, okay, you're going to learn
1:02:56
everything you need. I always joke that
1:02:57
like my favorite way for people to know
1:02:58
me is if they've seen my stand up cuz
1:02:59
then there's no questions to be asked.
1:03:01
They know everything that they need to
1:03:02
know and we never have to talk about it.
1:03:04
And that's kind of like the vibe I like,
1:03:06
I guess, uh cuz I have control over how
1:03:08
it's talked about. And uh so I think
1:03:11
that like for those reasons it really
1:03:12
excites me to get to talk about it. Um,
1:03:15
but also like I'm curious to see how it
1:03:16
comes through in like later shows or
1:03:19
whatever. Like if it's, you know,
1:03:20
because it's hard if it's like I'm
1:03:21
talking about my childhood, like it will
1:03:22
have to come up because it'll probably
1:03:23
be like re relevant. Um, or like my
1:03:26
relationship to my parents or anything
1:03:28
like, you know, it's going to come up
1:03:29
because it's just such a natural
1:03:31
>> still part of me. So, um, but yeah, I'll
1:03:34
be interested to see. I'm excited at the
1:03:36
idea of like I'm happy with where I'm at
1:03:38
right now because I'm like, like I
1:03:38
mentioned, I'm like I'm at this point
1:03:40
where I'm like I'm running this hour.
1:03:41
So, like these are the jokes that I'm
1:03:42
like, you know, they just are needing
1:03:44
like tinkering now and like and just
1:03:46
making them better and better. But like
1:03:48
I'm excited at the point where I get to
1:03:50
Well, I'll probably be excited until I
1:03:51
have to look at the blank page for 3
1:03:52
seconds and be like, "Fuck, I don't have
1:03:53
any material anymore." But but I think
1:03:55
it'll be cool to see like what comes
1:03:56
next of that.
1:03:57
>> I don't know.
1:03:58
>> Yeah. No, I know what you mean. Yeah. I
1:04:00
Yeah, I love the I mean, I've kind of
1:04:02
been um I've been setting aside some
1:04:05
stuff for the like next hour because I'm
1:04:07
like that's it's either undercooked but
1:04:10
I want to cook it
1:04:11
>> or it's uh
1:04:13
>> like pointier or something. But but but
1:04:16
not but it hasn't been like angled
1:04:19
correctly.
1:04:19
>> Right. Right. Yeah. No, I've got a
1:04:21
couple things like that too that I'm
1:04:22
like it doesn't really fit here but like
1:04:23
someday I'm going to come back to this
1:04:24
cuz I like this premise or this idea or
1:04:25
whatever.
1:04:26
>> Yeah. So you got like that stack of next
1:04:28
special. How we doing on time? Oh [ __ ]
1:04:29
we're at about an hour. Uh,
1:04:31
>> hell yeah.
1:04:32
>> Wow, we did so much arts and crafts.
1:04:33
>> Yes, we did some amazing artwork. Yay.
1:04:38
>> The devil meos.
1:04:40
>> Honestly, pretty good.
1:04:41
>> Dude, you got anything you want to plug?
1:04:43
>> Yeah, come uh come check me out. I'm on
1:04:45
tour all fall. Uh, nicar.com or on my
1:04:48
Instagram for tickets. The We Lad Tour.
1:04:50
I'm going all over, so check it out. Uh,
1:04:53
thank you. And uh I uh I'm on Substack.
1:04:56
All everything that you could ever want
1:04:57
from me is on my Instagram, on my uh
1:04:59
website, or on my substack.
1:05:01
>> Nico, Niko Carney, just like that. And
1:05:03
then nicar.com.
1:05:05
Uh check me out.
1:05:07
>> Nice.
1:05:07
>> Thanks. Thanks for Thanks so much, dude.
1:05:09
This is awesome.
1:05:11
Oh,
1:05:11
>> the mic's gone. My pieces.