Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 16) (8/15/26)

Transcript

Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 16) (8/15/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get back
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to the Kathy Ruemler transcript from her trip to Congress,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Miss Toland. Question, I just want to circle back for
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a moment to a few more questions about the meeting
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: between you, mister Epstein mister Putnam about legal stuff that
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: was discussed prior. Answer, Uh huh. Question you said that
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: mister Avenaughti had threatened a legal case against Jeffrey Epstein.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Is that answer? That's what that's my best memory is
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: that it was from the form of a tweet. Question
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and that's what you were going to be meeting about.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Answer yes, question and did this have anything to do
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: with the allegations against or the criminal activity committed by
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein. Answer. I don't remember whether there was even
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: specificity in whatever Avenaughtie put out, But mister Putnam is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: a civil litigator. He doesn't do criminal work at all,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and so it was really about if there was some
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: law suit that were to come to pass, some lawsuit
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: that was filed by mister Avenatti, was mister Putnam interested
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: in defending that litigation? That was about it? Question? And
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I can read the tweet from mister AVENAUGHTI to refresh
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: your recollection. Answer, okay, oh you found it. That's amazing.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Question on March first, twenty nineteen is the date he says,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I can confirm that I've been retained by two victims
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein. We intend to ensure that
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: no stone is left unturned in connection with our investigation
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and that all of those connected to his perverse conduct
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: are held fully accountable. If that sheds any more light
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: on gets cut off by Rumler. Answer, that's consistent with
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: my recollection that he had tweeted something out and said
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: that he had clients and was intending to file a suit. Question,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and we're just trying to understand the extent of the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: knowledge you had surrounding the allegations against mister Epstein. Why
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: would you later be shocked that he was indicted that
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: same year for crimes against him? Answer? Well, because, again,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: my understanding is that he had been investigated over a
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: multi year period by both the State Attorney's office in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Florida and the US Attorney's Office in Miami, and that
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: had resulted in a final resolution of any criminal activity
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: of Epstein. That he had accepted responsibility, he had served
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: his time, complied with all of his obligations, and was
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: lack for a better word to say it, living in
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: law abiding life. And so that tweet is not all
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that inconsistent with my state of mind at the time.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: And in fact, when Epstein was indicted in twenty nineteen,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: again the conduct period that was covered by the indictment
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: was two thousand and two to two thousand and five,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: And I think that's something that sometimes gets misunderstood in
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the public domain, that the twenty nineteen indictment related back
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to almost as much much prior period, and that prior
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: period of time that conduct was covered by the twenty
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen indictment actually pre day did the guilty plea and
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the non prosecution agreement. So nothing about the twenty nineteen
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: indictment said anything to me about Epstein engaging and ongoing
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: criminal conduct. And certainly, as I stated at the outset,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I never saw or heard any indication of any criminal
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: conduct on behalf of Epstein during the period of time
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: that I dealt with him. Question in the first sentence
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of the tweet, mister AVENAUGHTI says he can confirm we
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: have been retained by two victims of sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: That tweet was March first, twenty nineteen. The meeting you
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: later had with Epstein and Putnam was two months later,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: May twenty nineteen. Do you recall were there any conversations
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: between you and mister Epstein or you and mister Putnam
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in those two months after the tweet was made? Answer
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: not that I recall. Again, as I stated, I don't
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: believe mister AVENAUGHTI ever filed any complaint on behalf of
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: any victims. I don't remember when he got indicted for
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: his own criminal conduct. Maybe he got waylaid. I don't know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: mister Grant. Question I'm going to ask you another long
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: list of names questions. Answer okay. Question that's become part
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: of the repertoire of the Oversight Committee Majority staff. The
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: question is going to be have you ever communicated with
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: any of the following individuals regarding the crimes and allegations
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: of Jeffrey Epstein, Orglenn Maxwell. Answer okay. Question. You can
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: answer it yes or no to the individuals. If you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: indicate yes, I'll come back to it. Answer the first
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: name is at Hood Barock. Answer no, thorburn Yaglund answer no.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Philip Levine answer no. Andrew mount Batt Windsor answer no,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Woody Allen answer no. Soon Yee Previn answer no. Benjamin
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Lawski answer no. Gregory Poe answer yes. About mister Epstein's
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: historical conduct question John Luke Burnel answer no, Leon Black
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: answer no, Terry Rod Larson answer no. Yes Daly answer no,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: George Mitchell answer no. Glenn Dubin answer no, Eva Anderson
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Duben answer with respect to Glenn Duben and Eva Anderson Duben,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I've had a conversation with them about my experience in
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: dealing with the media scrutiny around my association with Epstein.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: So not about and that all relates to that all
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: arises from the fact that he pled guilty to these
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: sexual related offenses back in two thousand and eight. But
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: other than that, no question. Les Wexner answer no question.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Stephen Sinofsky answer no question. Harvey Weinstein answer no question.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Bill Gates answer no question. Arian the Rothschild answer yes.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Question any other member of the Rothschild family answer I've
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: spoken generally. Again in the same I've spoken generally with
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: some of her daughters about the experience with her, the
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: experience that I've had with and that she has with
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the media attention around anybody who has ever associated or
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: had any meetings or community occasions with Jeffrey Epstein. But
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: otherwise no, I just have to interject real quick, Could
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: this lady be any more smug if you just started
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a meeting with Jeffrey Epstein? Listen here, skuffuzza. You've had
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a lot more than meetings, okay, And in fact, I'm
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: gonna have a monologue about that very soon. Question President
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Clinton answer no, Secretary Hillary Clinton answer no. Doug Band
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: answer no, Ted Waite answer no. Any other elected official
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: politician or world leader answer no. Question. Going back to
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: mister Poe, you indicated yes for I believe you said
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: historical conduct. Is that just talking about mister Epstein's previous
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: crimes that he had already served jail time for. Answer yeah.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Question And then you said yes to Ariander Rothschild, What
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: specifically did you talk to mister Rothschild about regarding Epstein's
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: crimes or the allegations. Answer again, not about directly about
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: his crimes per se, but about the effect that the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: media environment has how on people, including myself, because having
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: any association with Epstein. So that's what I spoke to
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: her about. Question. Thank you, we're approaching the end of
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the hour. I have just a couple more questions. Answer.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I should say I probably spoke with her to explain
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to her what I understood about the criminal charges in
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, after I attended the arraignment and read the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: charges in the indictment. Question. I may have missed it earlier,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: so I apologize if you've already said it. When did
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: you learn of mister Epstein's status as a sex offender? Answer?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I don't recall specifically, but I knew that a condition
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of the non prosecution agreement was that mister Epstein go
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to the state. This is actually set forth in the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: non prosecution agreement, which at some point I did see.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I don't remember one exactly, but at some point I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: did see that the non prosecution agreement itself required mister
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Epstein to go to the state Attorney's office and tell
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the state attorney's office that they needed to file an
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: additional charge against them that would require him to register
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: as a sex offender. So that was just my experience.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: One of the many unusual features of the non prosecution agreement. Question,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: But you never had any direct conversation with mister Epstein
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: about his need to register as a sex offender? Answer
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: his need to, I mean, I just understand that that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: was an outcome of the criminal resolution that predated my
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: knowing him by six years. Question, But he didn't explicitly
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: tell you, Miss Rumler, I would need to I'm registered
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: as a sex offender. You learned it through your own means?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Am I understanding? You correctly? Answer? I just don't remember.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I certainly knew it when I knew it, and how
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I came to know it, I couldn't tell you. Question understood.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: In November of twenty eighteen, the Miami Herald came out
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: with an explosive article detailing Epstein and Maxwell's trafficking ring.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Did that article not cause any concern from you at
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the time? Answer? My recollection of the article was that
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it was a criticism of the Miami US Attorney's Office
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: decision to decline to prosecute mister Epstein, and that the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: premise of the story was that it was sweetheart deal
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and that the deal had been the product of some
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: undue influence or something untoward, some kind of collusion between
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein's defense team and the prosecutors. So my recollection
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: of the article was that it was all about whether
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: or not the resolution was adequate, not adequate, whether it
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: was somehow corrupt in some way. Question and my final
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: question to you, notwithstanding the need to ask any related
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: follow ups, you of course said here multiple times today
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein was arrogant, He was patronizing, he was
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: an overt mansplainer, he became pushy at times. Knowing all
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: of that, and understanding that you've had, by all accounts,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: a very powerful and prominent legal career, why did you
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: keep dealing with Jeffrey Epstein for all these years? Answer again,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: He remained a primary advisor to my client, who remained
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: my client until I left the law firm, at least
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to me. I mean, he wasn't. He wasn't all of
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: those things. He was also nice, and I was nice
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: in return, and I try to be nice with everybody,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and in busy this and particularly in the private practice
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of law, you deal with all sorts of people, with
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: all sorts of different kinds of personalities, and he was
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: on sort of one end of the extreme in terms
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: of his arrogant self important manner. But he certainly wasn't
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the only person that I dealt with like that. But again,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: had I known at the time everything that we know now,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: most importantly that there was enough evidence to indict him
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, that this is someone who had intentionally
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: gone out and sought minors for sex, for commercial sex.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Had I known that, I would have dealt I wouldn't
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: have dealt with them. It's just a very And I
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: don't mean to sound too clinical, but as a lawyer
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: of these concepts of intent and distinctions about one type
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of conduct versus another type of conduct, they matter. They
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: matter in the law, and they matter in the law
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: for a reason because the law says this type of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: behavior should be punished in this way, and this type
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: of behavior should be punished in that way. And I
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: think I said at the outset, and I'll say it again,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I regret that I did deal with them, and it
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: was a mistake. I wish I never had as love
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: as today has been. I wish we weren't here talking
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to you all about it. He was a very He
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: was not a very big part of my life. He
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: was not a big part of my legal practice, and Unfortunately,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: given the intense public interest in the story, which I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: understand and I don't disagree, is justified, and the important
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: work that the committee is doing, it's sort of taken on,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: at least for me an outsize, disproportionate view as to
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: how I felt about the dealings with them at the time.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Mister Grant, thank you. I apologize to our minority colleagues.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I went seven minutes over our hour. We can go
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: off the record, all right, folks. We're going to wrap
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: up right here too, and in the next episode dealing
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: found in the description box.