Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 40: Let's Talk: God, Guys, and Boundaries

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Ep. 40: Let's Talk: God, Guys, and Boundaries · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're 2 sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get Get comfy.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Wow. And 25 people just turned us off.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We didn't want them anyways.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Hello. Hello. It's mid January.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: It's cold and I don't like where I live.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: You live with me. Thanks a bunch.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I'm at in Michigan. Oh.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's it's cold. We've been watching Disney promo videos again. I don't think it's warm in Disney right now, but it's it's
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: just cool. The thought of just, like, being away from here sounds lovely.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's let's just get up there.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I just really, really get snowbirds. Yeah. We have a couple of them at my office, and I just I'm like, when are you coming back? I don't know. April, maybe.
• 1:30
  Yep. Maybe into May. I just love that idea of, like, I'm out of here. Mhmm. See you.
• 1:35
  I'm not dealing with this cold. I'm too sensitive.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Neighbors across the street, frankly, I've never spoken to them. They don't seem very friendly, but I'm pretty sure that's what they do Mhmm. Because their car disappears for half of the year. Yeah.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And it's just like, alright.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: You know, because Michigan has beautiful springs and summers.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Frankly, we have lovely falls.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: But that time between, like, late October March, It's not a good time. And frankly, I curse my ancestors for not moving further south.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I know. Or, like, kept us in Malta. That'd been great.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That would have been they're nice and Mediterranean there. Yeah. Now I realize that had they stayed there, we as people would not exist.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I understand, but at the same time, why'd you come here?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: To the cold. They came to the cold, and they stayed in the cold. They chose to stay here where it was freezing.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: What a shock to the system.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Where penguins need coats, so say the Gilmore Girls.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: And so on and so forth and what have you.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, we
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: went and saw Yeah. I was gonna say we went and saw 6.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Brie and I went down to Detroit this weekend and saw 6 for the 2nd time now.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I plan on seeing it 6 more times.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: But that'll put us at 8, and that's just that's just not We
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: should do it in multiples of 6. Yeah. So we'll have to see it
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: 12. 12. Yeah. That makes sense.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And then 18.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: It might be complicated because it only comes to town so often. Once a year. Until it stops showing.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Until we die. Oh, good. Mhmm.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: But we went down. It was just the 2 of us.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Just the 2 of us?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Which we've never done before. Not that we've never done something
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Stupid before.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Just us.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Oh. We've never gone
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: down to Detroit to see a show with just us before.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: We usually drag someone else along.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It was very fun.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: It was so nice. We got dressed up pretty. Mhmm. We had champagne. Mhmm.
• 3:40
  We stole our champagne glasses. It was a great time had by all.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yes. And don't tell the theater. It's like a tradition. You know? You go there.
• 3:51
  You have a drink.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: You take the cup. Frankly, no one told me where to put the put put the cup back.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Where to put the put? I didn't know where to put it back.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So that's really on them. There were no signs.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: There were no people. And 6 doesn't have an intermission. You just go straight through. So you drink your drink pretty quickly. Then what are you supposed to do with it?
• 4:10
  Obviously, buy a tote bag and store said cup in the said tote bag and then leave with it.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Now that makes it sound like we thought this through, Brianna.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You're right. We're not klyptos.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: And if you haven't seen 6, it's such a great show. It's definitely I wouldn't call it a child friendly show. No. Although there were a surprising amount of children in in the theater.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: More than I would bring. Yeah.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It's definitely an adult performance.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: But we, as feminists, love it. It's about Henry the 8th's 6 wives, and it's kind of like a a concert performance. And it was written by 2 females? 2 women. Yep.
• 4:51
  2 women. 2 females. And then the whole cast is obviously women. The band on stage were they're all women.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: They it's that's part of the requirements. Actually, the band has to be all women, everyone on stage. So it it's and it's just it's the story of these 6 wives, but
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Told their song.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Told their song. Yes. But you get to see them in a different way, whereas, like, before, they're just Henry the 8th's wives, and he lopped off 2 of their heads and you know? Which is interesting Mhmm. But you're not hearing their stories.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And so this, in song, really does a great job of and it's not a 100% historically accurate, but does a great job of telling a lot of their stories. Yeah. And I just I could see it in multiples of 6 a 1000000 times. I don't know if multiples of 6 get to a 1000000, but somewhere in there.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And then we booked our next show that we're gonna see Yep.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: To just carry on the tradition.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: We just never can't have a show scheduled to see now. Now that we've had a taste of it, we can't stop.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: See, frankly, I bring Try again. Frankly, I blame our brother Yeah. Because a couple it was maybe 2 years ago now. Maybe. He, for my birthday and my daughter's birthday, got us tickets to go see a
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: show. Mhmm.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And I honestly had never seen a show on that scale before.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: No. We see, like, high school productions or, like, community theater productions, but that's the extent. Right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Our brother was in theater, so we saw plenty of shows. Mhmm. But to go and see I mean, it's traveling Broadway, so you're not talking New York level necessarily.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: But pretty dang near close. But it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: so good. So we had a great time.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So now we just can't stop seeing shows. Yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: It's a big problem.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: The next one we're seeing is the book of Mormon if anyone wants to join us.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Now a show I would not see is let's talk by Danae Dobson.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice transition.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going for.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I feel a little bad that we're really Ripping into this book. Slamming this book, especially because it's, like, 20 years old. We we found it at a a book sale, and we're like, let's do this.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It's alright. Next, we'll, rip into Amanda Can A Plan.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I never bought that book.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: No. If you haven't seen store, though. If you haven't seen our social media, Brie posted, I think, to Instagram and TikTok
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: This book that she found at Barnes and Noble. Yeah. It's called A Man A Can A Plan. It's recipes for men, but they all involve canned food and isn't
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I guess one
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: of them is absolutely ridiculous.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: It's, like, our highest performing TikTok
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of all time. Because it's so ridiculous.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's just a picture of a book.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: But I think you posted the a picture of the back of the book as well. One of the categories is SpaghettiOs. It's simply SpaghettiOs, and I don't know what to do with that.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: How many things can one do with a SpaghettiO?
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's from page 26 to 29. So 3 pages worth of stuff you can.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Pages worth of SpaghettiO recipes. Did you ever try Spaghetti O? No. I did in college. It is not worth it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: No. It is gross. So I wouldn't see that musical either, Amanda Canneplan. Although, maybe maybe I'd see it.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I think I would. I think I sure would.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Let's go back to our first no musical topic, though.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, let's talk about guys.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: This is That's not a
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: chapter I'm looking forward to. That is a section in this book. And side note, I just want everybody to know the bookmark currently in this book for me, I got from a friend and it says, I still read fairy tales. They're just spicy now. Which is hilarious because this book is the least spicy thing I've ever experienced in my life.
• 8:45
  But this section of the book talks about how to handle and navigate dating and what guys think about girls and all of that when you're a teen.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: A young teen.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: A young teen. I just think, wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.
• 9:04
  Wow, Danae. Danae, now I know that Oh, we're talking right to her now. I know that you're single, but I'm also single. And this is not what I would give as advice to young teens. Especially just, honestly, what I find difficult to understand is why it's so important, because I wouldn't advise these young teens to start a courtship or serious dating when they're in high school.
• 9:35
  Like, I guess it's good to start opening up those topics of, like, hey, you may start feeling feelings. Here's you know, talk to me if you need to. But she's talking about, like, courting.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Right. And when you court, in my understanding this is not something that I ever experienced, but my understanding is you're with that person with the intention of marrying them.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: And honestly, she when she explains it, she does not say well, the way that she explains it is when a man feels like he is ready to be married, of marrying age, and he sees a girl that he thinks he would like to marry, he doesn't go up to her. He goes up to her parents and asks for permission, and then the parents get to decide yes or no whether their daughter is ready to be married off to this dude. Are we asking her?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Not till after. She's secondary, which is bizarre. Well, I think, you know, we always because I've seen this on shows before or songs even where the guy will ask the dad if he can marry the girl and he's the dad says no. Mhmm. And we kinda focus on that part, but what I've seen in my life from other people is when the parents say yes, but the girl doesn't want to date or get married to this person.
• 10:57
  Mhmm. And because she's not consulted first, she's not the first person that you're talking to about this, Now there's all this pressure for her. Mhmm. Well, my parents said yes. Maybe they know something I don't know.
• 11:10
  I don't wanna make him feel bad because his hopes got sky high, you know, whatever. And now she's in an uncomfortable position kind of no matter what. She's her hand is forced no matter what.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: It's just bizarre to me, and I don't like it.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Talk to us a little bit about, specifically, you found in here.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I think just a general theme throughout this entire section is don't be yourself. Mhmm. In order to capture a boy's attention, and that is very important. We want to capture the boy's attention. Right.
• 11:42
  Don't be yourself. And it actually gives a whole list of here's some tips that are helpful when you find yourself madly in like, is what she calls it. Madly in love. In like. Well,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: because you can't you can't be in love.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: No. We're not talking about love. We're talking about marriage. Have I taught you girls nothing? I I was like, what is that quote?
• 12:06
  I know it. Anyways, so here's her list. Take the time to look your personal best. You want him to notice you. Right?
• 12:13
  No. Right? No. I find issue with this because, again, it's saying don't be yourself. Right.
• 12:20
  You don't have to be looking your personal best. If that guy is interested in you, he's gonna be interested in you. Mhmm. And if you wanna look your best, that's up to you. Like, it should
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: be just for you. Right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't be getting dressed up for a boy.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Well, and, I mean, are you gonna do this every day for your whole entire life?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. We've talked about this in one of our previous episodes, I forget what it was about, but it does something to you mentally to be like, in order for someone to notice me, I have to look a certain way. I always have to do my makeup. I always have to dress a certain way rather than just saying, just you is enough. Mhmm.
• 12:55
  You without your makeup on or with your makeup on or with a bra on or without a bra on. It doesn't matter. You're enough. It starts to make you feel and I I remember what
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: you're talking about. It starts to make you feel like you can't even be part of society. Like, you can't walk into a store without your makeup on because in this case so we're teaching, say, 13 year old girls this concept of, well, you want him to notice you
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So you must look your best. You must put on your makeup. You must use the push up bra, whatever.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's The one bra. She's probably not referencing the
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: push up bra, but you you want to look your best. Therefore, your brain will say to you as you get older Mhmm. I want other people to notice me. If I run into someone that I know Mhmm.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't even have to
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: be a guy. It can be someone from church. It can be someone from my kid's school. It can be a coworker, whatever. I want them to think well of me too.
• 13:55
  I want them to notice me and see that I look great. So Mhmm. We're ingraining this.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. And what happens when you don't look your best? Mhmm. You know, you're struggling to get up in the morning, you need to go into the grocery store. Does that mean that you deserve less respect from anybody in that store?
• 14:13
  Are you less valued when you look a certain way? Mhmm. Shouldn't be.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But you're gonna feel that. Yeah. And I will say, this isn't always just a men putting this on women issue.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: No. Well, clearly, women are putting it on women. Right. Danae?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Like, we put it on ourselves. We put it on each other. We put it on our kids, our grandkids, our friends, our our whatever from birth, for heaven's sake.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She goes on to say, don't be allowed knee slapping comedian. Guys like guys like to joke around with funny girls, but goofy behavior can squelch romantic interest. Now this is something that I've had to deal with personally. I am a knee slapping comedian.
• 14:54
  I'm hilarious, and people will go around, and they'll tell you that's a bit too much. You know? Like, tamp yourself down. Right? In order to catch that boy's attention, you need to be less of yourself.
• 15:07
  Make him feel more comfortable. Make him feel more like the knee slapping comedian.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: You know? The funny one. Laughed at all of his jokes. Yeah. And frankly, that's just one step away from saying because you can't politically correctness.
• 15:19
  You can't say, don't be too smart because boys don't like smart girls.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: It's one step away from that, and I guarantee you, she would've said that
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If it weren't a little bit,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: you know, controversial. Although, controversy is so throughout this time. I know.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: It goes on to say, if he teases and flirts with you, it's okay to reciprocate. Just don't overdo it. So it's okay for him to be overdoing it, but not you. Right. And then be careful about what information you share with your friends.
• 15:48
  Someone once said either a secret is too good to keep or not good enough. People love to talk. Everything shared in secret will eventually be revealed. I feel like this is very dangerous. I tell
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: her I'm so many questions about what she means by that. I know. I'm like, you should be talking to everybody around you about this because, and this is
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: we've seen this in our life. You don't know what's normal. Mhmm. Right? So you get into situations, especially if you've been sheltered for a long time, and then you do start to dip your toes into this dating world.
• 16:19
  And then all of a sudden, a boy starts, being interested in those toes. You need to talk to people to see if, like, hey. He's speaking to me this way. Is that normal? Hey.
• 16:31
  I'm feeling this way about this person. Is that normal? You need community. Right. And she wants you to isolate yourself.
• 16:38
  I and if this
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: is what she means, essentially, you're protecting the guy. Right? Mhmm. So whatever's going on in your relationship, you're protecting him from from the judgment of the world, from anything like that, from the opinions of your friends.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But the reality is, yeah, I mean, pain and abuse and sin and all of these other things, they hide in the dark.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And you're creating the dark here.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I think especially in those super fundamental Christian churches, all of these little secrets are kept in the dark until they're very much in the light. Like Right. There's so many little secrets that they nobody talks about. It's all surface level Right. With everybody you meet when you go into those environments.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: And young girls, they need they need their people. They need to know who's a safe space. Yeah. And this guy, whoever he is, he might be great. He might be wonderful.
• 17:44
  Maybe. But he's a teenage boy.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he's not that wonderful.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: And she needs that outside community. Mhmm. And, additionally, when you decide that he's the person you're keeping secrets for, he becomes your sun, moon, and stars. Right?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And when you do that as anyone, when as any person, man or woman, child, whatever, when you make someone the center of your universe, everyone else kinda tends to fade
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: away. Right?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So your friends who you're no longer confiding in, no longer talking to Mhmm.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Because you have a boy
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: now Uh-huh. They start to fade away. You lose your community and a classic abuse situation. Now I'm not saying it happens every time. Mhmm.
• 18:29
  But a classic abuse situation happens when you're pulled away. Yeah. And isolated from everyone you've ever known. Mhmm. She's telling you here to create that situation for yourself for heaven's sake.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And even if it doesn't end in abuse, it ends in a lot of loneliness.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You need community. You need people. Mhmm.
• 18:50
  Not just a romantic partner. You need friends. Right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Brie and I have talked about this before we read the last one? Next one?
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: There's a
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: couple more. You know, as as Christians, as Christian women in particular, I think we're raised to think that our partner or spouse is our be all and all, our one and only. Particularly when you
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: get married, but even when you're dating Mhmm.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: You are supposed to put that person's needs above everyone else's needs. Think of them first, etcetera, etcetera.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: And I think that's a that's where it starts. Right here is keep his secrets, keep him safe, whatever. Put his needs above everyone else's. And I think it's crap. Mhmm.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Like,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: we've been talking about this this week. I think it's crap because, you know, I'm married. I've been married a long time, and there are absolutely moments where my husband's needs are the most important ones in the room. Mhmm. Because he's dealing with something serious, and his needs need to be the most important in the room.
• 19:55
  However, there are moments where Bree's needs need to be more important to me than Nathan's needs because she needs me more for something. There are times when my kids' needs are more important than my husband's needs, or my mom's needs are more important, because it can't always be one person.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And coming from a different perspective, like, if you are a single person such as me, it it gets hard when you're constantly told that because you feel like I'm no one's priority. Yeah. I am no one's priority, but you prioritize all these other people in your life. Mhmm.
• 20:29
  I prioritize you. I prioritize my friends. I prioritize my parents. You know? But it is really isolating if you're constantly told that romantic partner, which is what you should strive to find, should be the most important person in your life.
• 20:44
  And if you don't have that, it's very lonely. Right.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: And did we see Jesus exemplify that? Obviously, Jesus wasn't married. Mhmm. But I think if we were supposed to prioritize one singular person over everyone else, we would have seen Jesus do that. Mhmm.
• 21:00
  We would have seen Paul do that. We would've seen Mary do that. Mhmm. None of these people who are pinnacles
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: of our
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: faith did those things. I can't think of anyone in the bible, even we're gonna talk about Prisca next week.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And even with her, it talks about her and her husband. At no point does it say, and they prioritized themselves and screw everyone else. That's not in their gut. I hope not. That verse is not there.
• 21:31
  Alright. So what comes next on the list?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: She says, don't just happen to be in places where he hangs out. If he's interested in you, he knows where to find you. Okay. I feel like well, one that is creepy. Creepy.
• 21:42
  But it's like, give up control. Mhmm. Let him have control of the situation. I do not like that. Yeah.
• 21:48
  She says, watch your verbal and nonverbal cues. It's good for him to wonder about your feelings. A little bit of mystery is healthy. Why is that healthy? Mystery is not healthy.
• 21:57
  No. Be clear on what you want. Right. Stop telling girls to play this game. Mhmm.
• 22:02
  You know? And this one's good.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Good or really bad?
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I'll let you decide. All good. She says, do not make out and get physical with a guy to try to capture and hold him. And by all means, do not sleep with anyone. You will end up feeling used and alone.
• 22:23
  Anyone ever ever in your whole life. In your whole entire life.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I think the difficult thing about that and like I said, we do wanna do a bigger episode on purity culture, but that's gonna take us a lot of research time.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: The big issue with that last one is putting so much of a girl's value into whether she has slept with someone or not.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. And that's as you kind of, like, read through this book, she loves to judge.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And the conservative Christian world loves to judge. The KJ Viers? The KJ Viers. Even though they they don't necessarily say that Mhmm. But they're like, don't hang out with unbelievers, and don't kiss before marriage.
• 23:11
  Mhmm. They don't all say that, obviously. But you're judged so much on whether you've you have slept with someone or kissed someone or you're dating instead of courting or if you listen to this kind of music or go to the movies or whatever. It's constantly different ways to judge people Right. Rather than love them.
• 23:29
  Right.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And I think in this scenario, you're telling, well, above all else, don't do this. Mhmm. Okay. So let's say a girl picks up this book that has had sex.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And she reads this. How does she feel now? Right. Does she feel that she has a place in god's kingdom?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Does she feel that she has a healthy marriage potential in her future? Does she feel that god loves her?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Because for heaven's sake, I have 2 kids and I feel judged, and I'm married.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: If I could rewrite this entire chapter, I think I would just sum it up to, you are enough. Don't worry about what they think. Mhmm. You are enough. And if you need help, seek it out.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Confide in your friends. Confide in your parents if they're a healthy space, and your teachers if they're a healthy space. Find your people, and don't let it just be a boy.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yes. Stop putting so and she puts that priority priority. I don't know. No. I was so, So fancy.
• 24:42
  So fancy. Priority. This chapter like, this section, let's talk about guys or whatever, is before let's talk about you Mhmm. Which shows you exactly what her priority is. Right.
• 24:54
  Guys. Right. And I think too
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: you know, this like we said, this is written to, I would say, young teenage girls is kind of the vibe. If you look
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: at the cover, that's, I would say Traumatizing.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Age group
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that they're really trying to advertise to. I think it's supposed to be 3 teenage girls, but they definitely look like in their thirties. Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: But I think, yes, this is geared towards that age group. But she's not talking just toward that age group. She's talking about any woman that's unmarried. Yes. And that horrifies me on a whole different level.
• 25:30
  Mhmm. Because let's go back to this list of things that you can't be, that you can't do, that you Mhmm. Need to be controlled on. I'm sorry. Are you telling middle aged single women that they need to tamp themselves down, that they need to not be so funny, not be so smart, not be intimidating, not show up where he is, which is, I mean, it's creepy no matter what.
• 25:55
  Don't show up where people are. It's not good. But, like, all of these things, to any woman who hasn't gotten married yet, any woman who is looking to get married, is dating, is in an unfortunate courtship, I suppose. Like, really?
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I think something so freeing about being 30 and single. I announced it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I know it.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Last time. It's okay. It's okay. I apologize, everyone. 25 more people just turned us off.
• 26:31
  Oh, sorry. Is that I feel so much more comfortable in my own skin than I ever did when I was younger. And so she says in the next chapter, like, there are a few things in life that are more nerve wracking than a first date. There are a million things that are more nerve wracking than a first date. Mhmm.
• 26:50
  A first date, I mean, you can tell if the guy is gonna be a a good or a bad date in the first 5 seconds. Mhmm. And then you just get to eat and talk and
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Or you just leave.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Or you leave. Or you say, well, now I have a story to tell my sister.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And usually a great restaurant to go to.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: You know what? Yeah. All the best restaurants I know are from bad dates.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I should go on a T shirt. Yes.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I went to Crumble Cookie on a date. That's a good date. And Crumble Cookie is amazing. Crumble cookie is amazing. The date was not.
• 27:25
  Sorry. I don't know why I'm apologizing. I wasn't on the date.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I have gone with you to many a Crumble Cookie. Were those dates?
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Yes. Oh. Sister dates.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Well, there you go.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Like when we saw 6. A good sister date. Yes. She goes on to talk about really, really harping into, like, you do not wanna get physical with a guy before you're married. Mhmm.
• 27:47
  But I I would like to, when we talk about our purity episode, dive a little bit deeper into that because it's so forced down girls' throats. Do not get physical. Set boundaries, which mean do not touch anything. Go on only group dates. And once things get heated up, you just can't stop them sometimes, and so you need to set those boundaries from the beginning rather than saying, like, hey.
• 28:12
  Yes. Set those boundaries, and if he disrespects them Walk away. Walk away. But also, why aren't we telling boys to respect boundaries? Mhmm.
• 28:24
  That's my biggest question is, we just keep telling boys that they can't control themselves. What's the boys? Tell people that they can't control themselves, the more that they will become what you expect of them.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Well, because it's an excuse. Mhmm. You've handed them an excuse. Well, you have hormones and you just can't control what Right. What your body's going to do.
• 28:45
  No, they can. They absolutely can. As can girls. God never said, and women, I giveth thou the ability to control your hormones. And men, I guess, go fall in a hole.
• 29:04
  That's not what happened. God never said that. We, as human beings, decided that. Mhmm. We decided that men can't control themselves.
• 29:15
  And frankly, when you read Beth Allison Barr's book Mhmm. About, the making of biblical womanhood, so it talks about how we got here to this patriarchal culture that somehow associates itself with Christianity.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: She talks about the fact that back in the Middle Ages, women were considered unable to control their sexual urges. Yes. Mhmm. And so women became that in that culture. Mhmm.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Because it was
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: what was expected of them. Right. And men were expected to be the pure ones. Mhmm. So men became that.
• 29:49
  So cough, cough, cough. They have the ability to do it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Yep. I mean, she goes on to say how, like, women are so emotional and men are not, and that's why it's important to, like, gird your loins. Because because it's gonna affect you more because you're so emotional. I don't know. Men are very emotional, period.
• 30:12
  Mhmm. Men are emotional. In my experience, in my years of life You already said it. Men are way more emotional. Yeah.
• 30:20
  Way more.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: I read a thing, and it said the biggest PR win for men was that they rebranded anger as not an emotion. Yes. Men are very, very emotional. Women are very, very emotional. We all have emotions and it's freaking okay.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: It's okay to have them. It's okay to express them. It's okay to get emotionally attached to people.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: But it's not okay to tell men that they have no emotions. Right. And then also not teach them how to handle them when they so clearly do.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Like, we need to teach men just as much as we teach women how to handle their emotions Mhmm. And how to not rage on people. My gosh.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I think that's why we see so many men with, you know, anger issues and things
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Because with women, we talk a lot about amongst ourselves, anyway. Yeah. We talk a lot about, like, yeah, your hormones are tough. You're gonna be dealing with this, this, and this. And once a month, like, it gets even harder.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: And the best cocktail is a heating pad
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: and a
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: good book and a motrin. A motrin. Yeah. Or am I now, I guess?
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: But we teach girls that. Mhmm. And we walk with them through it. Like, I see that your emotions are really big right now. Let's talk about it.
• 31:46
  Let's work through that. And I think you are seeing it
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: more in our generation with,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: like, gentle parenting, things like that. But it's something that we need to continue working on. And in the Christian space Yeah. I wanna see more of it. Yeah.
• 32:00
  Because our boys should be able to be emotionally healthy. Mhmm. They have just as much of a right to be emotionally healthy as girls do. And as parents, we are denying them that Mhmm. Because we're telling them, you don't have emotions.
• 32:18
  You also can't control your hormones.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: wanna go wrestle? Yeah. Why do we give them so little credit?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Especially in the Christian world, if you expect them to grow up and lead a household and lead a family Which we're not condoning. No. We're not. But they should be able to control their emotions.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: It's insane to me that we look at men in the Christian community, and we say, they're the only ones who can lead, and yet we don't expect that they control control themselves.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Exactly. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: think that's why you see so much abuse in the bigger church, the overall church.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: One of the things she says in the second second or third chapter, she says, one of god's greatest gifts to us is the attraction between males and females. That's the greatest gift. One of the greatest gifts The greatest one. Is the attraction between male and female. I have real questions.
• 33:11
  I would say the greatest gift is Jesus Christ.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you? Right? I I would say that. Yeah.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And maybe, like, food and water.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Also great. Fair. Also life. Forget attraction between males and females.
• 33:26
  How about just love?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Not love between a husband and wife, necessarily.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Just love. I love my sister. Mhmm. I love my parents. They'll be happy to know that.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, mom and dad. What about what about connections that aren't
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: boys and girls? Really?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Or I don't know. The fact that god loved us enough to give us a choice between good and evil Mhmm. To say I'm not gonna make you automatons. There's so many better things.
• 33:58
  Fun word. How about wine?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: One of God's greatest gifts.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Jesus Jesus himself gave us that one.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you right now is wine. And specifically, the $3.95 winking owl from Aldi.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: I disagree thoroughly. Just for the record, just so you all can put it on the record, Alyssa disagrees with Brianna on this one.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: But we can both agree. One of our new greatest callings is wine? Is champagne? Oh, yeah.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I have spent years years saying I hated champagne because I had it like, I I'm we did not grow up in a drinking family. Okay? There was no alcohol anywhere, but I had champagne after my husband and I got married. We went to a hotel, and we had champagne, and I hated it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: But I think it was one of
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: those things where you you've gotta get used to the taste of things, and I was just not I was not there with it. I was drinking Pepsi, and champagne was weirdly bitter and
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And, like, the wine that I started drinking when I was able to drink was, like, Moscato, like a barefoot Moscato.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I think everybody starts with that kind of stuff.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Or, oh, I loved a yellowtail Moscato. That's what I was drinking.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Sweet for me. I know.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Now I cannot stand it.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But we we have discovered a deep love for champagne, which is great for our wallets.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Especially when you go to the theater, and it's, like, $30 a glass. $5 a glass. Yeah. That was that hurt me
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but it was delicious.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It hurt me because I absolutely had to have 2 glasses. Darn. Before we move on to the next section, I think it's incredibly important to talk about what the longest chapter in her book is, and it is an interview with 4 teenage boys.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Can I ask a real question before we get into this? Did none of these teenage boys, who, frankly, I assume are fake, but if they're real, if we assume they're real, can I just ask, was it not concerning to the boys or their parents that this middle aged woman was like, hello, teenage boys? I really would like to interview you for a book for girls. No one thought that was odd, because I think it's odd.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Well, let's ask Justin, John, Chris, and Joshua.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Wow. The most basic names we could think of.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: And she lists their favorite foods. Don't worry. Joshua loves Skittles. Chris loves tuna casserole. That's nasty.
• 36:42
  John loves double hamburgers, and Justin loves bratwurst. What?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Where did these boys come from? Pizza. Teenage boys like pizza. They're basically the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Was that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?
• 37:00
  I think.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I gotta think it's not. I dressed as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle for Halloween my freshman year in college, and I spent so much money on a turtle shell.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Did you actually did you actually buy a turtle shell?
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I bought the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle shell from Hot Topic. What? We all did. I don't know. I just
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: need you to know that you were a studio art major. Mhmm. Why didn't you paper mache that thing?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I was a studio art major, not a paper mache major.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Okay. But tell me you don't have access to paper mache? I guarantee you had access to
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: paper mache. Declared my major at that point. I was a freshman. I don't know what to do with this information. Usha, what more information do you want?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Alright. Bree was a teenage mutant ninja turtle. Moving on.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I was a teenage mutant ninja turtle, and I forget why we were talking about that. Anyways Teenage boys like pizza. Oh, she interviews them on all kinds of nonsense. Okay. Like, what qualities are you looking for in a girl?
• 38:04
  Good thing to ask a bunch of teenagers. Right. What do you like most about girls? What turns you off about girls? When it comes to girls' hair, clothes, and makeup, what drives you insane?
• 38:16
  Why do some girls seem to get all the guys? And so on and so forth and what have you. But I just wanna understand why she feels that this is the most important information to give to young teenage girls. What young teenage boys think about girls? Are you kidding me?
• 38:34
  No. Thank you. And there's a whole list. I just went through and it's like, what should a girl be according to these young preoccupies? What should a girl be?
• 38:44
  Well, just like in general, what are they saying they want in a girl? Okay. And I just made a list. I highlighted all the things, and it's a strong Christian, must have a Christian family. She must be attractive, both mentally and physically.
• 38:56
  She has to be funny. She has to desire to grow and learn. She has to be talkative, but not too much. She has to have a good attention span. She has to be rational.
• 39:05
  She has to be a good listener. She has to be understanding. She has to be comforting. And that was just, like, the beginning of the list. Mhmm.
• 39:11
  All these things that in order to attract these 4 beautiful teenage boys Like, tuna casserole and And Skittles. This is what girls are told that they have to be. They have to be so much. Mhmm. And I feel like if you were to ask a girl what does she want in a boy, she'd probably say someone who's kind.
• 39:32
  Mhmm. Someone who respects me. Supports my dreams. Yeah. Just like general human qualities.
• 39:40
  Right. Rather than these lists, like, these impossible things that all women have to be. It's really disheartening.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I think also, you're talking about teenage boys talking to teenage girls.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: These qualities are not something I have down Nope. In my thirties. So imagine a 13 year old girl who doesn't know who she is.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't know a dang thing at 13. Oh.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Strong Christian. What does that mean?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Exactly. I mean, I there are moments where
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I'm a strong Christian now, and there are moments where I'm not.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Because your faith comes in waves. Right. You know? And we know so much more now than we did.
• 40:26
  And I would have told you probably when I was 13 that I was a strong Christian Sure. Because I was going to church. Sure. But I didn't know my my fingers from my toes.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: And we said Song of Solomon. And then a Christian family. Okay. Okay. So let's say she is a Christian herself.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: She has decided that's what she wants for herself. She is getting up in the morning, getting her butt to church somehow, whether through a ride from a friend or whatever. Mhmm. She comes from a broken home. Right.
• 41:01
  Her parents aren't Christians. They've never been Christians. They're never gonna be Christians. Assume not even just that. Assume we take it a step farther, and they're falling apart at the seams.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: She's not worth your time? Because that girl is a stronger Christian
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: than the girl who was raised in a Christian family and has been
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: in church her whole life. A 100%. But I can tell you that even now today, sitting here in our thirties, that we oh, we've gone here.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: We're in our nineties. Nineties. And we look really good.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: That men are still ignoring women who don't have the strong Christian family. Mhmm. That they will still overlook you if you don't have a strong Christian family. Mhmm.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: And, again, think about the girl who picks up this book, back in the 2000 or whenever, they were reading this. Immediately, she's gonna read that and be like, okay. Well, I'm out. I'm out. I guess I can't have a good Christian boy as a husband Mhmm.
• 42:07
  Because they don't want me because my parents haven't decided to be Christians. Only I have. Right. Fantastic. Like, why is that important enough to put in this book?
• 42:17
  Why is it important for a girl to read through this? Mhmm. It's not. I'll tell you that much for free.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: And kind of a side note, in saying that, you're discouraging new Christians. You're discouraging people from coming into believing in Jesus. Because if their family wasn't part of it, they can never be part of the club.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: They never get to be part of the inner circle of Christianity.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: And this happens in churches all the time. Why would someone come to Jesus, come to Christianity, come to this faith if they think they're always gonna be on the outs? What's the point? Why bother?
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And it's just if you read through this, and I don't wanna spend too much more time on these teenage boys who have skills, but it's telling girls what to wear. Mhmm. And how to do their makeup and when to do their makeup. And
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: How much makeup and how little makeup.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, hey, don't tell your friend that you like me because now your friend's gonna come up to me and harass me or whatever. And at the end of this section, she goes, you may not agree with everything that these boys say, but it is a good, like, conversation starter. Why? Why?
• 43:32
  Why is okay. Do you agree, Danae? Danae, why do you think it's important enough to put into a published book?
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Now mind you also, just as someone who like, I I have a creative writing degree. This is Mhmm. Where I Brie did art. I wrote. I don't know.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: We're dumb.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: But this is polished. Right? Mhmm. This is what she wanted them to say, if she interviewed anyone at all, which Yes. I mean, these are very generic names.
• 44:04
  I know. We've at least changed the names. But this is not exactly what they said. Mhmm. This is the polished version of what they said.
• 44:12
  So this is what Danae wanted them to have said.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Danae, come on. I wouldn't call you my best friend or my good friend or my acquaintance. I just think
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: it's crazy, because it like, she says, like, well, you might not agree with all of this, but it'll start a conversation. But, Dene, you wrote this. Right. It might have been inspired by Chris and John and their Skittles. But Don't say that.
• 44:38
  But Danae Dobson wrote, edited, polished, and put this in her book Mhmm. For all the girls to see.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So this is exactly what she wants them to think of themselves. This is exactly how she wants them to filter themselves. Mhmm. Don't filter yourself.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Don't. Especially not when you're 13 for a 13 year old boy Right. Or a 15 year old boy or any boy. What I want,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: and I don't know that our audience consists of a lot of teenage girls. But if you're listening, whether you're a teenage girl or someone just dating at any stage of your life.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Or you may be raising a soon to be teenage girl.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. I want you to hear that no one should have to filter themselves to fit with someone else. Marriage is not worth faking yourself for the rest of your life.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: And this book, I don't know necessarily that it's a devotional. It's laid out like a devotional, and it has verses at the beginning of each, you know, section or whatever. But she specifically says, like, if you're looking for, like, big sisterly advice Right. Here it is. So it's like you're trying to have a conversation with your big sister.
• 45:51
  This is what she's telling you. Mhmm. She's telling you to filter yourself, to make sure you're wearing good enough clothes to catch the boys' attention because that's super important.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I just I think that's hurtful.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: She's also telling you to accept a man's control. Yeah. And we we talked about indoctrination in the last episode, but I think when you're talking to young girls and you tell them, here's what the boys think about you. Mhmm. They're judging you absolutely all the time.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: And it's written down. Here you go. Yeah.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: So you better make yourself into this person that they want. Mhmm. What does that do? It takes autonomy from her. It takes control from her, and it hands it to whatever boy happens to be walking in front of her at that time.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Like John, Chris, Justin, and Joshua. Yeah.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: It just hands over control of herself, of her body, of her self worth, and we gotta stop doing that. Oh, you want are not worth this. No.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: If you want big sisterly advice, come on. Sit down, and I will tell you, you are beautiful just the way you are, honey. Although, maybe you could use a shower.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I could. I just got my hair wet
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: this morning. I didn't even shower. Teenage boys are not gonna be in your future.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: So who cares what they think? Right. What do you think?
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Right. Don't start down this path.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: As a teenager, as a middle aged woman, I don't care. Don't start down this path. Mhmm. Because it doesn't end easily. It's gonna take a lot of work for you to step out of it.
• 47:38
  And women out there who have dealt with this, weigh in, let me know. What does it take to start telling yourself, I get to decide? Mhmm.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop living for someone else who might not even exist. Right.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: And often, it takes really bad relationships. It takes pain and abuse and whatever before you can get there, before you can rip yourself out of this thought process that men get to control what you do, who you are. Yeah. Don't start.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: And we've talked about I think we talked about it in the last episode with you, like, getting piercings or tattoos and asking, well, what would your future husband think of that? Well, I don't know who my future husband is, so I really don't care. And even if I did, it's my body.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: So I am gonna get that piercing because I want to.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: And I expect that my future husband, should there be one no. Obviously, like, I got married. But in theory, your future husband, should you choose to take a husband
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Is going to want and love you for more than just your Christian family, Mhmm. For more than just your ability to not be too funny.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: For more than just Whether you're a good listener
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: or not. Right. Whether you comfort him when he thinks you should, and whether you don't nag him when Yeah. He thinks you should. You know, like,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: there's Whether you have the attention span of a goldfish or not.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe you do.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Okay? Let me be. I'm Thorie. There are days. I've got 50 things going on in this head.
• 49:16
  Leave me be. And remember that, like, this list is all
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: about what women can give to men. Yep. Right? None of these things were reciprocal. Mhmm.
• 49:28
  At no point did they say, I want someone who I can joke with.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: You're right. Mhmm.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I want someone who's gonna make me laugh.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: That's what they said. Not, I want someone where we're comforting
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: And caring for each other, understanding each other's needs. Now these are teenage boys, so they're not thinking
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: They're teenage boys eating tuna casserole. Correct?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: But this is the information we've given these girls. Mhmm. They didn't say that. They said, I want someone who's going to comfort me.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: They didn't say, I want someone who is going to look at my faith and request a strong faith from me, who's gonna make me stronger, who's gonna have a collaborative effect in our faith. They didn't say that. They said, I want a strong Christian because then that makes me look good.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Right. And these are the answers that I should say because I'm sitting with this woman in my small church, and she's asking me about Christian girls, And I'm confused. I like chewed a casserole, Danae.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: What other information does she give about them?
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Their age, their favorite subject in school, very important. Mhmm. Got it now. Their favorite sport and their favorite food. Why that information is relevant, I do not know.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's I'm I've just, like, picked up little words here and there.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: But one of the answers, she says, what qualities are you looking for in a girl? And this boy says, attractive, not only physically, but also mentally. I wouldn't be interested in someone who acted like a ditz. Mhmm. So not only is he Insulting.
• 51:00
  Yeah. He's saying, I want someone attractive. No. He's a teenage boy. So, like, if you asked any teenage boy, I think they would say this.
• 51:07
  But she needs to be attractive to me, to me, physically and mentally. So she's gonna have to morph her whole body and self Mhmm. To be physic or to be attractive to me. But, also, I'm a insult her in the meantime.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: She can't be a ditz. Now, first of all, are there teenage boys saying the word ditz?
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Well, back in the early 2000s when this
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Or was Denae saying that? I just I don't know why like you said, why do girls need this information?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: They don't. They just don't. Alright. Cut that part out of the book.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Let's cut past the teenage boys because I'm tired of them.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Clean-cut. Moving on. Let's see what Danae says about let's talk about you, baby. Okay. I noticed when she said let's talk about you, obviously, she put it after guys.
• 51:57
  So you're not as important. You're towards the end of the book, and you don't really matter. But what we tell ourselves and what we feed into our mind, that's what we become. Mhmm. And she's assuming in the very first section that you don't have a good, like, self worth.
• 52:14
  Right. And let's talk about that. The next section is maybe you might be be depressed, or you don't like the way that people talk about you. Let's talk about, you know, your weight and the way that you look. Maybe you have an eating disorder.
• 52:27
  Maybe you have too big of emotions. Maybe you're struggling with feelings. All these very downer things. And I am a big proponent of let's build each other up with outrageous confidence instead. Mhmm.
• 52:45
  But because we're talking to girls, we assume that we wanna talk about weight, or we assume that they don't have a lot of confidence, that they don't respect themselves. Mhmm. Let's talk more about guys. Mhmm. There's more in here about guys.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Of course there is.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: And I'm just tired of, especially in the Christian conservative world, how we tamp down women so much. Mhmm. And my dad was saying when I was reading this at their house today, he was like, well, why don't you go through maybe Nathan was saying it too. Why don't you go through the book and like what good things are in there? And there's very few and far between things where she's like, yes, you should respect yourself.
• 53:27
  Yes, if you find yourself in the middle of a, like, essay, you should report it to the police. She says it once. But this book is not good.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: No. That's not the overall message. The overall message is, let me tell you how to feel bad about yourself, be less than you are Mhmm. And assume that I mean, I
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: guess maybe you have a
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: place in God's kingdom, but it's a little one and stay in your lane.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: It's important for girls to be able to talk about issues like depression, issues like self confidence. No. At this stage in my life, I'm outrageously self confident. Okay?
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: You and I probably need a book on, like, how to tamp down our confidence. No. No. No. We're good.
• 54:15
  Because we're we're a little bit too confident.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: We're wildly confident.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: I'm the worst. I'm the worst. I noticed the other day I like, anytime I pass by a mirror, I'm like, woo woo. Check out that.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: But I think when you when you have a book like this, you're suggesting you're not saying, let's have conversations about what you're dealing with.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: You're suggesting to girls, you ought to be dealing with this. Oh, yeah. You should There
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: were 2 entire chapters on eating disorders and weight and how when she was younger, she wanted to lose those pesky £5. So let me tell you how I did it, And even though it wasn't the healthiest thing, this is how I did it.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: And she's gonna tell you about it even though it's not healthy.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: This is not opening a conversation. This is telling girls you're worthless if you're not a size 2.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Men won't want you unless you're a size 2. Men won't want you unless you are not very confident in yourself and you're questioning every single thing that you do because you
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: need them to guide you and lead you. But also, you should be completely pure until marriage, and then you should be she says in there somewhere, like, there are no restraints once you're married. So you go from 0 to absolutely a100. Right. With no experience, and don't talk about it to anybody because that's bad.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Right. Because they could tell other people. Right. Well, maybe they'll tell a therapist. It just it hurts.
• 55:50
  It hurts to see these things, that girls are just told this is normal. This is what you should be doing. And, frankly, I think within Christianity also and this is kind of a a whole another topic that we don't have time to get into, but there is this concept because you hear all the time, your body is a temple. Right? And there is this concept of, like, if you are heavier, if you gain weight, if you are not a runner that, like, spends all her time at the gym Now if you are, great.
• 56:23
  Have a good time. But, like, if you're not, there is this concept in Christianity of, like, you are not as faithful. Mhmm. You are less in God's kingdom because you're not taking care of God's temple.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: This entire book, in my opinion, is let's talk about how to judge people Mhmm. In different ways.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Which I feel like a lot of the churches are. Not just the super conservative churches, but the, you know, whatever churches that we've been going to. Mhmm. People love to see you have to be driving a fancy car, but not too fancy of a car because you should be spending that money for the church. Mhmm.
• 57:07
  And you should have a nice house because you wanna you wanna be successful, but you should also spend all your time at the church.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's I've it's way too easy. Mhmm. Because I think as people, not just as Christians, as people, we love to judge everyone else. We've talked about that.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: It's our human nature. Mhmm. But why
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: as Christians have we made an art out of it? Why have we made a religion out of it?
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Well, god said to love one another. That's the greatest commandment is to love. Right? How are we loving each other if we're telling each other, you need to dress a certain way? You can't do this.
• 57:44
  You can't do that. You had to follow these rules that aren't in the bible, but we've made them up. Mhmm. It's hard. It's just hard to exist.
• 57:51
  Mhmm.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, with a lot of times, you'll hear in churches that getting saved is freedom. Right? It's like freedom from sin. It doesn't feel like freedom when you put all of these chains on it.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: But Jesus didn't put them there.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: If you're like Marley. What? The Christmas carol. He had all the chains. Marley.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I thought you said. Molly. Marley. But Jesus didn't say, and women, you must dress this way, and you must put on makeup, and you must and frankly, a lot of these things would have been very prohibited in bible times.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And, like, it's cultural too. So what is appropriate for us to wear now, what the conservative Christians would call modest Mhmm. Would not have been modest back then.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Right. So just remember, as you're as you're navigating this, whether it's dating or whether it's
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Whether it's, god, guys, and growing up. We're all growing up and just different places. Yeah. I'm still growing up. Listen.
• 59:00
  I'm years old. I've said it 4 times.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: But if you are dealing with those things,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: get rid of this garbage.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Don't let other people put this on you, whether it's your church, whether it's your parents, your friends, your, I suppose, sort of well meaning aunt.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Like I'm a well meaning aunt. Not if you're giving this to my kids. No. We're gonna burn this later. Actually, if anybody wants it, I wrote a lot of notes in it.
• 59:34
  You can have
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: it. Hit us up on our socials. We'll mail it to you.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: We made quite a few notes, actually.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I'll sign it, and I'll kiss it, and I'll send it with a match. I don't
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: think you can send matches through the mail. Alright. So next week, we are gonna be taking, 1 week pause as we get another devotional that we talked about. We wanted to go through one with, like, from To
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: 9 cart.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: 4 boys from a similar time period. Yes. But we're gonna take a little bit of a break in between because we wanted kind of an upper episode.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: We say an in betweeny episode, but usually we call them weenies.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: So that's gonna be on one of the women of the Bible that I've really wanted to talk about.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Her name is Prisca or Priscilla, depending on your translation.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: A beautiful name.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: She was one of the first preachers in the Bible. She was one of the first teachers of other preachers in the Bible, a good friend to Paul. Just really an
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Like our good friend, Beth. Yes. Or no. She's our best friend. Beth.
• 1:00:43
  Our good friend is Mark.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Our not good friend is Danae. She probably hates us.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: She well, if she hears this, she's not gonna be thrilled. Alright. So we'll see you well well, you'll hear us next week. And we're really excited to talk about her and learn more about her. She's an incredible woman of the bible, and we'll probably destroy a lot of your perceptions of the women of the bible.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: I'll send you a match. Again? It feels very threatening. What? I got that in the mail, just an envelope with a single match.
• 1:01:20
  That feels very threatening. It's the start of a horror movie. Alright. While Brie writes her horror film Mhmm. We're gonna go now.
• 1:01:29
  Starting Kathy Bates. In a match. In a match.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Alright. Love you back.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Love you bye.