Latest / Do You F*cking Mind? / 381. HEAD NOISE: Friendship ultimatum - is love worth losing a friend over? Part 1

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381. HEAD NOISE: Friendship ultimatum - is love worth losing a friend over? Part 1 · Do You F*cking Mind?

0:10
Speaker 1: Hello, beautiful beans, and welcome to your head Noise episode.
0:15
Speaker 2: You guys know the drill head Noise episodes where you
0:17
Speaker 2: guys send me in what's going on in your fucking.
0:19
Speaker 1: Head in your head noise. So we've got the voice.
0:23
Speaker 2: Note head Noise Episodes, which is this one today, and
0:26
Speaker 2: then we've also got the email head Noise Episodes for
0:29
Speaker 2: those of you that don't want to or just prefer
0:32
Speaker 2: to send in an email. So I'm doing part one
0:34
Speaker 2: of this episode is voice notes, and then part two
0:37
Speaker 2: just check out. This other episode is going to be emails.
0:40
Speaker 2: So let's get straight into it. With head Noise Episodes,
0:42
Speaker 2: I like.
0:42
Speaker 1: To dive straight in, so we're doing that right now.
0:49
Speaker 2: Also, if you listen to this episode and you're like,
0:51
Speaker 2: this was the best thing I've ever heard in my life,
0:53
Speaker 2: I want to also have like an on air conversation
0:56
Speaker 2: with Alexis, then send in your voice notes. Just go
0:59
Speaker 2: to dyfmpod dot com and on my website, my podcast website,
1:05
Speaker 2: there will be a section for.
1:06
Speaker 1: You to send in your voice note. So it's very exciting,
1:10
Speaker 1: So let's get straight into it.
1:11
Speaker 2: I'm going to get through three this episode and then
1:14
Speaker 2: three emails in part two of this episode.
1:17
Speaker 1: Let's begin.
1:21
Speaker 3: Hey, alexis huge UK being here. Thank you for all
1:25
Speaker 3: that you do. Really quick one. So, I recently met
1:29
Speaker 3: a guy on a dating app and we really hit
1:31
Speaker 3: it off, and I told my best friend about it
1:34
Speaker 3: all excited. You know, I've not had the best luck
1:36
Speaker 3: with guys, and she is very aware of that, and essentially,
1:40
Speaker 3: six years ago, much unbeknown to me, she had dated him. Also,
1:46
Speaker 3: when I got into the nitty gritty of it, I
1:49
Speaker 3: realized that she had actually only seen him on three
1:51
Speaker 3: separate occasions. As I say, six years ago, they weren't
1:56
Speaker 3: in he He and her had admitted to me on
1:59
Speaker 3: supper occasions that they didn't even kiss, And she is
2:05
Speaker 3: basically just giving me the ultimatum of I'm not allowed
2:08
Speaker 3: to see him anymore. I do feel really happy in
2:11
Speaker 3: his presence. I still want to take things slow and
2:12
Speaker 3: get to know him, but she is essentially saying that
2:17
Speaker 3: it's going to jeopardize our friendship when nothing had even
2:21
Speaker 3: happened that long ago. She's been in a full blown
2:24
Speaker 3: relationship in that time. He has now got a child
2:27
Speaker 3: that he didn't have when he knew her, an apartment
2:29
Speaker 3: in a brand new career. So his argument is that
2:32
Speaker 3: he doesn't even know her and she doesn't even know him,
2:34
Speaker 3: so they're two separate people, and essentially I just don't
2:36
Speaker 3: know how to navigate it. So, yeah, I don't want
2:40
Speaker 3: to be controlled. I want to do my own thing
2:41
Speaker 3: and ultimately want to find happiness, but don't really want
2:44
Speaker 3: to have to lose her as a friend if I
2:46
Speaker 3: don't have to. But yeah, things got a bit personal,
2:49
Speaker 3: so please help.
2:51
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, a big question. We love questions
2:54
Speaker 1: like this, drama and chaos.
2:57
Speaker 2: Okay, so so personally in a nutshell, and we're going
3:02
Speaker 2: to break this down a little bit further. I feel
3:05
Speaker 2: like that's extremely unfair on your friend's end.
3:09
Speaker 1: Okay.
3:10
Speaker 2: Obviously, every single situation like this is going to be
3:13
Speaker 2: extremely dependent on the circumstances surrounding it. You know, if
3:17
Speaker 2: someone had just broken up and they were heartbroken and
3:19
Speaker 2: the friends just like swooping on in and dating the guy,
3:22
Speaker 2: that's very different. But with the circumstances that you specifically
3:25
Speaker 2: have outlined in your situation, I think this is very
3:28
Speaker 2: unfair on your friend's end. Like you said, it happened
3:31
Speaker 2: six years ago. They saw each other a total of
3:34
Speaker 2: three times. They actually do not know each other. There
3:36
Speaker 2: is no deep knowing of the person. There's no way
3:39
Speaker 2: you can really know someone in three dates, and she
3:43
Speaker 2: obviously doesn't have any intense feelings for him. And even
3:46
Speaker 2: if she did, like this was six years ago and
3:49
Speaker 2: nothing's ever going to happen there. She's had potentially still
3:53
Speaker 2: is in one but definitely had you said, a full
3:56
Speaker 2: blown relationship after that, and.
3:58
Speaker 1: He's definitely done the same.
4:02
Speaker 2: I feel like this is like a bit of possession
4:05
Speaker 2: and ownership here where it doesn't really apply. I understand
4:10
Speaker 2: that if she had been.
4:12
Speaker 1: Married to the guy and had children and then they broke.
4:15
Speaker 2: Up and there was this still the deep connection with him,
4:17
Speaker 2: and it makes her uncomfortable. Because you're a friend and
4:19
Speaker 2: it's an expert, she has to see the ex all
4:20
Speaker 2: the time. They don't know each other, they don't interact
4:23
Speaker 2: with each other.
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Speaker 1: I just think.
4:24
Speaker 2: That that's going too far. So my first answer to
4:30
Speaker 2: you is should you still be able to see him?
4:33
Speaker 2: I think yes, absolutely, you should still be able to
4:35
Speaker 2: see him and go on a date with him, especially
4:37
Speaker 2: if you think that this could potentially be a great relationship.
4:40
Speaker 1: It's not to say that it's your forever person.
4:41
Speaker 2: You can't predict the future, but if you can see
4:44
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship where you feel really great around this
4:46
Speaker 2: person and you see longevity there, then I think it's
4:49
Speaker 2: definitely worth pursuing, especially when you're not actually really hurting
4:53
Speaker 2: anyone else in the process.
4:54
Speaker 1: It's just her ego.
4:58
Speaker 2: From the perspective of maintaining your friendship, what do you
5:01
Speaker 2: do in this scenario. You can't control other people. You
5:04
Speaker 2: can't control how they're going to behave and how they're
5:06
Speaker 2: going to act. You've got to weigh it up. You've
5:09
Speaker 2: got to weigh it up in the sense of if
5:14
Speaker 2: this if I like pursued this relationship and I lost
5:18
Speaker 2: this friendship, would I be okay with that? And the
5:22
Speaker 2: answer might be yes, because you might be like, I
5:24
Speaker 2: really do like this friendship, but at the end of
5:25
Speaker 2: the day, I feel like it's one sided or she's
5:28
Speaker 2: always trying to control me. This is yet another moment
5:30
Speaker 2: where she's trying to like swing her dick around and
5:32
Speaker 2: establish power. Like what exactly she's trying to achieve out
5:37
Speaker 2: of this? What does she want? Does she want to
5:39
Speaker 2: feel like she's in control, Does she want to feel
5:42
Speaker 2: like she's got the upper hand that you can't have
5:45
Speaker 2: what she once had and why is there an insecurity there?
5:48
Speaker 2: Like where is this coming from? And again, you don't
5:50
Speaker 2: have to know the answer to that to be able
5:52
Speaker 2: to move forward with your decision. But I would try
5:56
Speaker 2: and address it with her. Not in the sense of
5:59
Speaker 2: I would really love your blessing, I would really love this.
6:02
Speaker 2: It's more of a this is what I need to
6:04
Speaker 2: do for myself. I understand that you might feel this way,
6:07
Speaker 2: but I also struggle to understand why it's affecting you
6:10
Speaker 2: the way it's affecting you. There's only X amount of
6:13
Speaker 2: people in this world, and you can't like place a
6:16
Speaker 2: claim on every single person that you've semi liked gone
6:20
Speaker 2: on a date with God, because some people go on many, many,
6:23
Speaker 2: many dates in the same city that you live in.
6:25
Speaker 1: And are you're going to stay claim.
6:26
Speaker 2: To all these people's that's like horder, it's giving horder,
6:30
Speaker 2: okay from that TV show Hoarders. It's like you can't
6:34
Speaker 2: do that with people. So I would say that to
6:37
Speaker 2: my friend, Maybe not the hoarding comment, but I would
6:41
Speaker 2: definitely say, like, where is this coming from?
6:44
Speaker 1: Why do you feel this way? I you know, my
6:47
Speaker 1: history with.
6:48
Speaker 2: Dating I'm really like, I really want to find someone
6:51
Speaker 2: that I'm going to fall in love with. I get
6:52
Speaker 2: great vibes from this person, you know, is there a
6:56
Speaker 2: way that you could like look past this and move
6:58
Speaker 2: past us, because I don't understand why it's going to
6:59
Speaker 2: jopdize friendship. I actually feel that what you're doing is
7:03
Speaker 2: jeopardizing the friendship by making an ultimatum that is jeopardizing
7:06
Speaker 2: the friendship. If she digs her heels in and refuses
7:11
Speaker 2: to budge, then I feel like that might actually be
7:13
Speaker 2: a reflection on potentially how she views this friendship with
7:16
Speaker 2: her inability to kind of budge. Like I said, this
7:20
Speaker 2: is very case dependent, but with your specific scenario that
7:24
Speaker 2: you have outlined, I do think that she is being
7:27
Speaker 2: unfair and she's laying claim to something that's absolutely nothing
7:31
Speaker 2: that she can claim.
7:32
Speaker 1: I don't think you can do that.
7:34
Speaker 2: I would never ever ever tell my friend that they
7:37
Speaker 2: couldn't go on a date with someone that I had
7:39
Speaker 2: gone on a.
7:39
Speaker 1: Couple of dates with six years ago. That would just
7:41
Speaker 1: be so rogue of.
7:43
Speaker 2: Me and also like wild to think that I can
7:48
Speaker 2: then say who you can date and who you can't date,
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Speaker 2: and who this person who have only seen three times?
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Speaker 1: Can I cannot date?
7:53
Speaker 2: It's just crazy, like if you have actually zoom out
7:56
Speaker 2: and think bigger picture, it's actually insane that she's actually
7:59
Speaker 2: saying that these things. So even if the friendship is
8:04
Speaker 2: at risk, and even if the relationship doesn't work out,
8:07
Speaker 2: maybe you should be asking yourself, is it fair that
8:09
Speaker 2: I'm in a friendship where I'm being controlled in this way?
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Speaker 1: Yes? Or no? You've got to really weigh up.
8:15
Speaker 2: Would I be okay if this friendship ran its course
8:19
Speaker 2: and I went with my heart and what I thought
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Speaker 2: was right, even if it doesn't work out with this guy,
8:25
Speaker 2: If you can be like nah, I followed my heart,
8:28
Speaker 2: I did what was true to me. I followed my instinct,
8:30
Speaker 2: and it didn't work out with this guy, and she
8:32
Speaker 2: still has cut me out. I can sleep happy at
8:34
Speaker 2: night knowing I did what was right for me. Then
8:36
Speaker 2: I would still go ahead and explore this relationship with him.
8:38
Speaker 2: I'd have a conversation with her, but not asking her.
8:41
Speaker 2: I'd be telling her what's up, not I really want
8:44
Speaker 2: your blessings. I need your blessings to proceed further. Don't
8:46
Speaker 2: do that because it gives someone way too much control
8:49
Speaker 2: over something that actually shouldn't be controlling.
8:51
Speaker 1: Hopefully that helped. Thank you so much for being a
8:53
Speaker 1: die hard bean. I love that so much. Sense all right?
9:17
Speaker 4: Next one, Hey Lexus whoge fan you from Wales in
9:22
Speaker 4: the UK. Just won't say your podcast has been life
9:25
Speaker 4: changing for me and everyone I've recommended you too, so
9:28
Speaker 4: the big thanks. I need advice on navigating a tricky
9:32
Speaker 4: situation that I've never been in before. So my boyfriend
9:36
Speaker 4: has been separated from his ex wife for nearly two
9:39
Speaker 4: years and this year two kids. We've been together since
9:43
Speaker 4: September last year, so coming up to like fourteen months,
9:47
Speaker 4: but we didn't tell her, or he didn't tell her
9:50
Speaker 4: for a year. So we told her roughly in September
9:53
Speaker 4: this year and I were in November. She says, you
9:56
Speaker 4: already knew about us, and I had a feeling she did,
9:59
Speaker 4: because know if she'd viewed my profile months before he
10:02
Speaker 4: told her in maybe like June time. And I still
10:06
Speaker 4: have the met the kids. We're ready to start introducing me slowly. However,
10:13
Speaker 4: when we bring this up to his ex wife, she
10:17
Speaker 4: feels us too soon. How can we approach this respectfully?
10:23
Speaker 1: We just want to keep things.
10:24
Speaker 4: Civil, but also making it clear that we're ready to
10:27
Speaker 4: take the next step, and also sort of even though
10:31
Speaker 4: we're ready, she's not already. We need to be able
10:34
Speaker 4: to be in control of the situation as well, because
10:37
Speaker 4: we just don't know when she is going to be ready.
10:38
Speaker 4: And it's difficult because we don't want to pit her off,
10:41
Speaker 4: you know, but we plan to move in together an action.
10:44
Speaker 1: We just want to.
10:44
Speaker 4: Share every part of our lives together, including the kids. Thanks.
10:49
Speaker 2: Firstly, love that accent so much. This is a big
10:52
Speaker 2: Welsh bans love my Welsh banes. Okay, another great question.
10:57
Speaker 2: As always, Look, this is this is really tricky because
11:01
Speaker 2: as like, technically, if you're sharing custody of the kids,
11:05
Speaker 2: and I am gonna then give you an actual like
11:08
Speaker 2: what I think could be a way to a solution.
11:11
Speaker 1: But I think it is.
11:13
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have children, so I can't really
11:14
Speaker 2: speak from experience, but it really is. If you share custody,
11:18
Speaker 2: she can't actually say no, you're not allowed to whatever.
11:21
Speaker 2: I understand that you're trying to do this seamlessly because
11:24
Speaker 2: you don't want to piss her off and you want
11:26
Speaker 2: to everyone get along well, which I think is the
11:28
Speaker 2: right thing to do. I think the best thing you
11:30
Speaker 2: can do for the children is for the adults to
11:33
Speaker 2: all have a very civil, nice relationship.
11:37
Speaker 1: With each other. So you're definitely doing the right thing.
11:39
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's very fair that she's saying
11:43
Speaker 2: she's deciding it's too soon. It's this, it's that, it's
11:46
Speaker 2: really you know, that's that's one of the you know,
11:49
Speaker 2: the difficult things when you do get divorced, that you
11:53
Speaker 2: can't really control ultimately what the other parent is going
11:56
Speaker 2: to do and who the kids are going to be
11:58
Speaker 2: hanging out with. When they're with the other parents, you
12:00
Speaker 2: can only just hope and trust that they're going to
12:02
Speaker 2: be as you know, careful and reasonable as you would
12:07
Speaker 2: be with your own children. Right now, she knows that
12:10
Speaker 2: you have been together longer than what he announced. I
12:13
Speaker 2: think the best thing that you could do moving forward
12:17
Speaker 2: is to I don't know if you've met her, but
12:19
Speaker 2: meet definitely meet her, and to like for the three
12:23
Speaker 2: of you to meet up, because definitely you want to.
12:27
Speaker 2: You want her to feel heard. That's really important.
12:30
Speaker 1: If she feels heard, if she feels.
12:31
Speaker 2: That you respect her concerns, that will help in softening
12:37
Speaker 2: how she feels towards it. So you don't want to
12:39
Speaker 2: jump in, being like, well, technically where can go right?
12:42
Speaker 2: That gets no one anywhere. But at the same time,
12:45
Speaker 2: you do want to take control of the situation, being like,
12:47
Speaker 2: we do want to move forward, we're going to live together.
12:49
Speaker 2: She can't determine when we can move in together because
12:52
Speaker 2: you can't be living there until you can meet the kids, obviously,
12:55
Speaker 2: because that would just where the fuck are you going
12:57
Speaker 2: to stay when the kids are over?
12:58
Speaker 1: If you get that's ridiculous.
12:59
Speaker 2: So obviously there's a time crunch on this, and you
13:02
Speaker 2: want to meet them before you move in with him.
13:04
Speaker 1: That's clear.
13:05
Speaker 2: So I think number one the three if you should
13:08
Speaker 2: meet up and talk. Number two, you need to let
13:11
Speaker 2: her know as soon as possible that your intention is
13:14
Speaker 2: to move in together. You've got to give her a
13:15
Speaker 2: bit of a game plan, a bit of a strategy
13:17
Speaker 2: of like, this is, we've been together for a while.
13:20
Speaker 2: Now you can decide if you want to tell her
13:22
Speaker 2: exactly when you got together, roughly how long, but say
13:24
Speaker 2: we're very serious, it's been long enough, like we're legit,
13:27
Speaker 2: we're ready to take the next step of moving in together.
13:29
Speaker 2: Of course, when we move in together, the children will
13:31
Speaker 2: be staying in this home. There's nowhere else where anyone
13:34
Speaker 2: can go, so we will all be together. So can
13:37
Speaker 2: we together map out a bit of a time plan
13:41
Speaker 2: on what it would look like for you to meet
13:44
Speaker 2: the kids. So I think that when you include her
13:48
Speaker 2: in the plans, she's going to start to feel like
13:51
Speaker 2: she does have some level of involvement, and she might
13:54
Speaker 2: soften up a whole lot more. If you go in
13:57
Speaker 2: with this kind of walls up being like well, which
14:00
Speaker 2: I know you don't want to, so I don't even
14:02
Speaker 2: need to explain that to you, but just the general
14:04
Speaker 2: population listening, if you go into it kind of within
14:08
Speaker 2: your right saying well, I have the right to introduce
14:11
Speaker 2: my children to my partner who's going to be my
14:12
Speaker 2: long term partner. I can do it. I'm just gonna
14:14
Speaker 2: do it. It could create more tension, more of a divide,
14:17
Speaker 2: and that's the last thing you want. If you can
14:19
Speaker 2: avoid tension with your partner's children's parent, I would whenever possible, Okay,
14:25
Speaker 2: So if you then include her in this journey, she
14:30
Speaker 2: might really open up and soften up if she feels
14:33
Speaker 2: like she's part of it and not completely locked out
14:36
Speaker 2: and on the other side, and that it's me against you,
14:38
Speaker 2: but we're working as a team. She may surprise you
14:42
Speaker 2: with how she can soften up and open up. You
14:46
Speaker 2: are there to be involved in the children's life because
14:48
Speaker 2: you love your partner and therefore you really want to
14:52
Speaker 2: get to know and you want to love the kids.
14:54
Speaker 1: But the frustrating thing as well.
14:56
Speaker 2: Is so I've I don't have kids of my own,
15:00
Speaker 2: but I've been in a situation where I've dated someone
15:02
Speaker 2: with children, and the truth is, you don't love the
15:05
Speaker 2: children immediately. You grow to love them. You didn't birth them,
15:09
Speaker 2: so you have to get to know them and you
15:10
Speaker 2: grow to love them. And I did. I grew to
15:12
Speaker 2: love these children and it was great. But it's something
15:16
Speaker 2: that you also don't want to be, Like, I don't
15:17
Speaker 2: want to be moving in and all of a sudden
15:19
Speaker 2: I meet the kids and I have like, it'd be
15:21
Speaker 2: nice to start to get to.
15:23
Speaker 1: Know the kids before you move in. So it's this.
15:26
Speaker 2: Nice gradual progression, and then when you're living together, you've
15:28
Speaker 2: already built this rapport with the children, like that would
15:31
Speaker 2: be ideal. You don't want to wait till you're moving
15:33
Speaker 2: in together and it's like, oh, well, surprise, now it's
15:35
Speaker 2: a full time kind of thing when they are over,
15:37
Speaker 2: and I would explain that to the mother. It's like,
15:41
Speaker 2: we really want to start building this report. We want
15:42
Speaker 2: to make the children comfortable so that way, when I
15:44
Speaker 2: am living with them, they're comfortable. It's for the kid's
15:48
Speaker 2: sake more than anyone else, that you get to know
15:50
Speaker 2: them before you move in. You know, everyone wants to
15:54
Speaker 2: make this as comfortable as possible for the children.
15:56
Speaker 1: And I would speak to her and instead of saying
15:59
Speaker 1: will you allow that? Will you not?
16:00
Speaker 2: You want to frame it as we are moving in
16:03
Speaker 2: by roughly this point. We want the kids to meet
16:07
Speaker 2: you prior to then, and we want to include you
16:10
Speaker 2: in that plan. How can we work on this together?
16:13
Speaker 2: So instead of saying are we allowed to? Are we not,
16:15
Speaker 2: you're saying, let's all discuss this together. This is kind
16:18
Speaker 2: of what's happening. How can we all work on this
16:20
Speaker 2: together so it works really well? Like what would you
16:22
Speaker 2: be comfortable with? Would you be comfortable with this? Could
16:25
Speaker 2: we try this? Could we try that? Really get her
16:27
Speaker 2: involved in the plans. Obviously, ultimately she can't run the show,
16:31
Speaker 2: it's not up to her, but that would be the
16:33
Speaker 2: first tactic I would try If then there's still crazy pushback,
16:37
Speaker 2: then you have to say, well, if you're not willing
16:40
Speaker 2: to have me meet the children prior to us moving in,
16:44
Speaker 2: then it's inevitable that they are going to be there
16:46
Speaker 2: once I have moved in.
16:47
Speaker 1: That's inevitable. You can't control that he is.
16:50
Speaker 2: Every parent is completely in their right to move on,
16:53
Speaker 2: and I would only bring this up if she pushes
16:54
Speaker 2: back on the first suggestion. Every parent is completely in
16:56
Speaker 2: the right to move on, and it is nothing unhealthy
17:00
Speaker 2: for the children to meet the parent's new partner, especially
17:03
Speaker 2: when by the time you move in with him it's
17:04
Speaker 2: been nearly two years. So at the end of the day,
17:08
Speaker 2: you're delaying the inevitable, and the inevitable is that they
17:11
Speaker 2: are going to meet relatively soon.
17:13
Speaker 1: You've been together for over a year.
17:14
Speaker 2: So that's how I would start with the first one,
17:16
Speaker 2: including her in the plan. She will hopefully surprise you
17:19
Speaker 2: and be like, well, now that I feel involved, I
17:21
Speaker 2: feel included. I don't feel so I don't feel like
17:23
Speaker 2: it's a threat because I get I understand that from
17:25
Speaker 2: a parent's perspective that it's a lot.
17:27
Speaker 1: It'd be a lot. I get it.
17:29
Speaker 2: So if you then meet her, talk to her, get
17:32
Speaker 2: to know her, speak about it in that way. I
17:34
Speaker 2: think that would be the best thing moving forward. If
17:36
Speaker 2: she feels that she is more comfortable around you, she
17:40
Speaker 2: might warmt to the idea a lot faster. And then
17:42
Speaker 2: if she doesn't, then say, well, they're going to meet
17:45
Speaker 2: me when I move in. So is that how you
17:48
Speaker 2: want it to be, that that's going to be the
17:50
Speaker 2: first time that they meet me.
17:52
Speaker 1: Cool? Hopefully that helped.
17:55
Speaker 2: I would go about it that way, and I agree
17:57
Speaker 2: with you the best way to do it is to
17:59
Speaker 2: keep it, like the parents happy. I think it's just
18:01
Speaker 2: so unfortunate, and I know that it's unavoidable sometimes, but
18:05
Speaker 2: it's so sad for the parents and of course for
18:08
Speaker 2: the kids when there's this animosity and like just you know,
18:13
Speaker 2: never being able to agree and pushing and fighting between
18:15
Speaker 2: the parents. So I think you're definitely doing the right
18:17
Speaker 2: thing trying to obviously keep her happy at the same time.
18:20
Speaker 2: That's very I think it's very big of you to
18:23
Speaker 2: want that, and I think it's the right thing as
18:25
Speaker 2: well for the sake of everybody involved.
18:28
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sending that in.
18:30
Speaker 5: One more question, Hi, Alexis, I absolutely love listening to
18:36
Speaker 5: the pod, and I have for years now, so thank
18:37
Speaker 5: you so much for bringing it out for everyone. My
18:40
Speaker 5: question today is with regards to narcissistic parents. I know
18:44
Speaker 5: you've touched on in laws and just narcissists in general
18:47
Speaker 5: quite a bit on your podcast or apologies for bringing
18:50
Speaker 5: up the same topic, but I'm wanting to know how
18:53
Speaker 5: someone can go about approaching it when it is their
18:55
Speaker 5: own parent. So in my situation, it's my mum and
19:00
Speaker 5: I have moved into state just over a year ago
19:04
Speaker 5: and since then we haven't had any contact, but recently
19:09
Speaker 5: she has started trying to send me letters, like just
19:12
Speaker 5: basic birthday cards and things like that, and she's also
19:18
Speaker 5: unfortunately turned my older brother and my younger sister against
19:22
Speaker 5: me back home as well. So I'm finding it really
19:25
Speaker 5: hard to manage not having any contact with my family,
19:29
Speaker 5: especially being into state and feeling quite isolated. And even
19:34
Speaker 5: though I don't think that we can mend things based
19:37
Speaker 5: on what she's done to me and you know how
19:39
Speaker 5: much she's hurt me, I still can't help but feel
19:41
Speaker 5: bad for not responding. And yeah, I'm just kind of
19:45
Speaker 5: wanting some kind of advice on how I can approach
19:48
Speaker 5: the situation, I would really appreciate it, thank you.
19:53
Speaker 1: Okay.
19:54
Speaker 2: Dealing with narcissist, any kind of narcissist, is a fucking
19:58
Speaker 2: headache at the best of times, a fucking it's a
20:01
Speaker 2: headfuck because she's getting exactly what she wants. She is
20:06
Speaker 2: achieving her goal, and that is she's getting you to
20:10
Speaker 2: the brink of feeling like you have to crawl back
20:12
Speaker 2: into their life because she's isolated you. She is just
20:17
Speaker 2: seamlessly doing what a narcissist does. She's just tick tick
20:20
Speaker 2: tick tick tick doing exact text book narcissis. She's trying
20:23
Speaker 2: to isolate you. She tries to get people on her
20:25
Speaker 2: side and off your side. She gets you to a
20:27
Speaker 2: point where you need her, and then you end up
20:30
Speaker 2: crawling back because you feel bad. Put it this way,
20:33
Speaker 2: if she wasn't your mother, if she didn't birth you,
20:36
Speaker 2: and she was just someone else in your life and
20:38
Speaker 2: was treating you that way, you would have cut her
20:39
Speaker 2: out a fucking a long time ago. People think that
20:42
Speaker 2: because someone is family, they have this unlimited all access
20:48
Speaker 2: pass into your life, and no matter what, it's unconditional.
20:52
Speaker 2: I don't think any relationship should be unconditional. When you're
20:57
Speaker 2: talking about adult relationships. Adult relationships should be conditional, and
21:03
Speaker 2: the condition is that you treat the person with respect. Okay,
21:08
Speaker 2: that you respect who they are, their space, their privacy,
21:12
Speaker 2: their time, all.
21:13
Speaker 1: Of the above.
21:14
Speaker 2: If the respect doesn't exist, if someone has hurt you,
21:18
Speaker 2: if someone has gone and out of their way to
21:20
Speaker 2: disrespect you, to manipulate you, to go behind your back,
21:23
Speaker 2: to do whatever it was that your mother or any
21:25
Speaker 2: other narcissist or any other unhealthy relationship in your life
21:28
Speaker 2: has done, then that is no longer a condition for
21:34
Speaker 2: a loving, healthy relationship. Okay, just because you have a
21:38
Speaker 2: blood tie, that's not enough. I'm sorry. As an adult,
21:42
Speaker 2: it's not enough. If someone is a piece of shit
21:45
Speaker 2: that don't need.
21:46
Speaker 1: To be in your life.
21:47
Speaker 2: I don't care if they've birthed you, if they are
21:49
Speaker 2: treating you like shit, if your life is a misery
21:52
Speaker 2: having them in your life, you do not have to
21:55
Speaker 2: have them in your life. We get so heavy held
22:02
Speaker 2: on because of how people have treated us, and now
22:05
Speaker 2: she's just proven to you how unhealthy she is by
22:08
Speaker 2: turning your siblings against you. Like the height of this
22:12
Speaker 2: person to send you a birthday card while turning your
22:16
Speaker 2: siblings against you, If that doesn't screen manipulation, I don't
22:20
Speaker 2: know what does. That is like textbook manipulation.
22:24
Speaker 1: Right.
22:25
Speaker 2: If she's sending you birthday cards and at the same
22:28
Speaker 2: time singing your praises to everyone around you, to all
22:31
Speaker 2: your family and friends.
22:32
Speaker 1: You might think maybe she's come to her.
22:34
Speaker 2: Senses, maybe she's wanting to make up maybe this, But no, no, no,
22:38
Speaker 2: no no. These birthday cards are like a face. Okay,
22:41
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't fucking ignore that. So as far as
22:44
Speaker 2: your relationship with your mother, I, personally, if I were
22:47
Speaker 2: you would keep doing what I'm doing because the fact
22:49
Speaker 2: that she's turned your siblings against you, you should feel
22:52
Speaker 2: zero guilt for.
22:52
Speaker 1: Cutting her out. That is fucked up.
22:55
Speaker 2: That is fucked up to do that if my mother,
23:01
Speaker 2: not that she ever would, but if she ever turned
23:03
Speaker 2: my sister against me like that, whatever, But can you
23:06
Speaker 2: imagine imagine you don't even have to imagine it's happening
23:09
Speaker 2: to you, So just absolutely not.
23:11
Speaker 1: I would. That's a done deal with that.
23:13
Speaker 2: That's fucked So you need to do something to wipe
23:17
Speaker 2: that guilt away. You have nothing to be guilty for.
23:20
Speaker 2: She has set it up this way. She has made
23:22
Speaker 2: her fucking bed and now she's sleeping in it, and
23:24
Speaker 2: now she's trying to bring everyone down in the process
23:27
Speaker 2: because it's not worked out for her, because you've just tapped.
23:29
Speaker 1: The fuck out. I'm not interested. I don't want to
23:31
Speaker 1: bar of this.
23:32
Speaker 2: I'm tapping out. Okay, Now she's bringing your siblings into it.
23:36
Speaker 4: Now.
23:36
Speaker 2: I don't know what ages your siblings are, but the
23:39
Speaker 2: likelihood of your siblings eventually seeing her for what she is, well, actually,
23:45
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to speak on the
23:47
Speaker 2: likelihood because narcissist can treat different people differently for different reasons,
23:51
Speaker 2: so they may or may not see it, but there's
23:53
Speaker 2: a big chance that they will see it.
23:54
Speaker 1: Eventually and come to their senses.
23:56
Speaker 2: If I were you, what I would focus on is
23:59
Speaker 2: trying to maintain my contact with my siblings, and I
24:05
Speaker 2: know it's very hard to do because they're going to
24:07
Speaker 2: be like, well, why don't you speak to mom and
24:08
Speaker 2: why don't you this, and why don't you that. I
24:10
Speaker 2: would just explain what I need to explain, but I
24:13
Speaker 2: would al also say I don't expect you to have
24:16
Speaker 2: the same relationship with Mum that I have, but my
24:19
Speaker 2: experience with Mum has been X y Z and for reasons,
24:24
Speaker 2: for my own mental health reasons, I have needed to
24:27
Speaker 2: cut ties. I have needed to separate myself from this
24:30
Speaker 2: relationship because it has been awful, it's been painful, it's
24:33
Speaker 2: been whatever it has been to you, And I don't
24:37
Speaker 2: expect that you're experiencing the exact same thing.
24:39
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to judge the relationship that you have.
24:41
Speaker 2: But what I do hope is that you judge the
24:43
Speaker 2: relationship that we have and that we can maintain a
24:46
Speaker 2: civil sibling relationship. I would always keep the door open
24:49
Speaker 2: for my siblings because they're being manipulated right now. But
24:52
Speaker 2: I wouldn't I wouldn't fall for what your mother is doing.
24:55
Speaker 2: And if that means having minimal contact with your siblings
24:58
Speaker 2: for a period of time, that, unfortunately, that is the fallout,
25:00
Speaker 2: because the only other alternative is that you then get
25:04
Speaker 2: sucked back into this extremely unhealthy relationship with a narcissist,
25:08
Speaker 2: and all that does is it erodes you.
25:10
Speaker 1: You get worn down, down.
25:11
Speaker 2: Down into a fucking nub and then you have like
25:15
Speaker 2: self esteem issues. It fucking infiltrates so many areas of
25:19
Speaker 2: your life. Being in a closer relationship with a narcissist
25:22
Speaker 2: it's toxic, literally definition of toxic, especially what she's doing.
25:26
Speaker 2: Imagine if you're then close to her, the manipulation she's
25:29
Speaker 2: going to try and put on you. I think you're
25:31
Speaker 2: doing the right thing, and you can only do your
25:33
Speaker 2: very best to try and be open and honest with
25:35
Speaker 2: your siblings and hope that they can, you know, see
25:40
Speaker 2: your side of the story for what it is, and
25:42
Speaker 2: if they don't, then hopefully time will be on your
25:45
Speaker 2: side when it comes to them realizing more and more
25:48
Speaker 2: and more in that evolving Okay, And also, can I
25:51
Speaker 2: just say when you fully sever the ties with your mother,
25:56
Speaker 2: she will then pick another target. And then eventually that's
26:00
Speaker 2: when other people start to see the issues. Often when
26:02
Speaker 2: a nass to someone that they can, like really manipulate
26:04
Speaker 2: and do whatever, a lot of other people don't see
26:06
Speaker 2: it because they're not the target. Then when that person's
26:09
Speaker 2: target disappears, they will find another target.
26:12
Speaker 1: Whether it's your siblings or not.
26:13
Speaker 2: It's not that that's not your aim, but I'm saying
26:15
Speaker 2: they will start to see, oh my god, this was
26:17
Speaker 2: always just we thought our sister was the problem. But
26:20
Speaker 2: now we're seeing them treat other people like this. We're
26:22
Speaker 2: seeing them treat you know, their own, you know whatever.
26:25
Speaker 2: You start to see that behavior repeat it on someone
26:28
Speaker 2: else when their target disappears, and then you're like, wait
26:29
Speaker 2: a minute, you're the fucking common denominator.
26:32
Speaker 1: This is the pattern that's repeating itself. Okay, But in.
26:34
Speaker 2: Order for that to happen, you've got to be you
26:37
Speaker 2: can't be available anymore as the target of manipulation for
26:40
Speaker 2: that narcissist. So I hate that for you, hate that
26:43
Speaker 2: you're going through that, but you need to put yourself
26:46
Speaker 2: first because she is not fucking putting you first. I
26:48
Speaker 2: can tell you that for free, so you have the
26:52
Speaker 2: strength to do it. You've just got to really be
26:55
Speaker 2: strong with yourself as to like to not feel guilty.
26:58
Speaker 2: What is there to feel guilty about? What have you
27:01
Speaker 2: done wrong?
27:02
Speaker 1: Okay?
27:03
Speaker 2: Every time you're like slipping into this guilt thing, being
27:05
Speaker 2: like nah, and remind yourself of three things that have
27:07
Speaker 2: pissed you off that she's done to you, and then
27:08
Speaker 2: you're not gonna feel guilty.
27:09
Speaker 1: Okay, Hopefully that helps.
27:11
Speaker 2: I just want you to like just keep that spine
27:14
Speaker 2: strong and do not cave because she's already shown you
27:18
Speaker 2: that she's not worth having a strong having a relationship
27:21
Speaker 2: with for what she's done to you. Thank you so much, guys,
27:24
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to today's herd NOWS episode.
27:26
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for Part two for the email version of
27:29
Speaker 1: this episode.
27:31
Speaker 2: Always remember also love my Welsh beans, love that I've
27:34
Speaker 2: got like just love my global beans so much.
27:37
Speaker 1: Anyway, Love you guys so much.
27:39
Speaker 2: As always remember, be kind to yourself, be kind to
27:41
Speaker 2: your brain, don't take shit from anyone, and especially don't
27:43
Speaker 2: take shit from yourself.
27:45
Speaker 1: Dunk her