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Should chimps be used for medical testing? · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
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Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to
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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is always as
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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and that makes the Stuff you
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Speaker 1: Should Know the podcast the Chimpagze centric podcast. Frequently I
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Speaker 1: told you about the time that chimp held my hand, right, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: that was just the best thing ever. Yeah, I mean
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Speaker 1: I think about it today, my heart melts a little,
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Speaker 1: just a little, just a little. You're a weepy guy. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there's like ten twelve years ago, and it's still it's
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Speaker 1: worn off. Yeah, it's still melting though by degrees. Do
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Speaker 1: you think it will melt forever? Every time I think
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Speaker 1: of that little chimp holding my hand, it will melt
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Speaker 1: a tiny bit. Why don't you just go buy a
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Speaker 1: chimp and you can have it happen all the time. Dude,
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Speaker 1: if I didn't have three dogs in two cats, I
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Speaker 1: would have a chimp in my house. Would you really
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Speaker 1: even after that one story? Um, remember when we started
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Speaker 1: blogging it happened that chimp or something. Yeah, I would
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Speaker 1: because that was such a big deal that made the news.
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Speaker 1: And I don't think it just that didn't happen all
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Speaker 1: the time. Okay, I would totes have a chimp. When
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Speaker 1: did you start talking like that? You're talking like my
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Speaker 1: friend Adam and it's unvous. Oh yeah, I think it's funny.
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Speaker 1: It's like that, like everything's abbreviated. Yeah, yeah, Emily, and
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Speaker 1: not do that I totes on the totes train. Yeah
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Speaker 1: are you? I just think it's funny. Don't start saying
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Speaker 1: natsch Okay, Oh that's old school, though I know. I
1:39
Speaker 1: still don't like it. All right, I never did toads.
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Speaker 1: I can handle more than natch. Okay, Okay, you're ready, Yes, okay, Chuck.
1:49
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about a certain lady. Her
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Speaker 1: name is Wenka okay, and she has kind of a
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Speaker 1: rough life story. She was born into a family and this,
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Speaker 1: or you might say, um. She was born in nineteen
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Speaker 1: fifty four and when she was just two years old,
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Speaker 1: her mother died after being mistakenly poisoned. Her um mother's father,
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Speaker 1: her grandfather, uh He was a morphine adict who died
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Speaker 1: as a result of his addiction. Her grandmother, maternal grandmother
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Speaker 1: died of dysentery um on. Her father said she was
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Speaker 1: one of forty grandkids. You believe that she was adopted
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Speaker 1: out at a very young age, but returned back home
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Speaker 1: at age three. At fifteen fifteen, she had her first daughter,
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Speaker 1: and her daughter was born with Down syndrome. She died
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Speaker 1: at seventeen months. Eventually, Winkle went on to have another boy,
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Speaker 1: and a boy and another girl. Um, and here's the
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Speaker 1: mind blowing part. She's a chimpanzee. Yes, I actually see that.
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Speaker 1: I mean, and I know I was sitting there like,
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Speaker 1: how is there a way to do this? At the
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Speaker 1: top of the Chimp podcast. That's not somebody not know
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Speaker 1: because it sounded like you were talking about a human story.
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Speaker 1: But think about all of the stuff that her family
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Speaker 1: went through if they were humans, wouldn't she feel pretty
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Speaker 1: bad for well, feel bad for Whanka to And here's
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Speaker 1: why she is, as far as anyone knows, the oldest
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Speaker 1: primate in captivity that's still being used for research. And
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Speaker 1: she was here in Atlanta. Well, she's born in ninety
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Speaker 1: and she's been experimented on ever since. She went back
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Speaker 1: to the Yorkes Primate Institute at age three, and her
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Speaker 1: mom the one who was mistakenly poisoned. Was one of
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Speaker 1: the original ones that yer Keys got his hands on
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Speaker 1: in the what the forties, right, Well, in the twenties, yes,
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Speaker 1: is Robert Yorke's started messing around with behavioral research, not
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Speaker 1: as much medical research. No, And at first you think like, oh, well,
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Speaker 1: that's that's way better. But if you have you looked
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Speaker 1: into some of the behavioral experiments that they were conducting,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not fun. So like one one young
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Speaker 1: UM chimp from I believe for this, the first thirty
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Speaker 1: six months of his life had UM like plastic or
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Speaker 1: some sort of obstruction over his hands and his feet,
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Speaker 1: so he couldn't use either of them for the first
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Speaker 1: three years of life. A lot of social isolation, like
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Speaker 1: chimps spent the first two or three years of life
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Speaker 1: without seeing, hearing, touching anybody else's. Yes, very much so,
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Speaker 1: wasn't it Little Albert? Yeah, a little Albert was on
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Speaker 1: a human though the fear conditioning UM the The equivalent
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Speaker 1: to that was UM Harry Harlowe's experimentation of separating UM
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Speaker 1: chimps from their mothers and then raising them with like
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Speaker 1: wire and co and fake reconstructions UM that they would
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Speaker 1: cling to and treat as their mother, because what he
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Speaker 1: found from these experiments is that moms are really important.
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Speaker 1: That's the saddus thing I've ever heard. All Right, So
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Speaker 1: we're talking about we started this off well, I mean,
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Speaker 1: this isn't the brightest of topics, although the ending is
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Speaker 1: fairly uplifting. Past headed that way, Yeah, we won't ruin it,
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Speaker 1: so chuck, let me set you up here. Um, we
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Speaker 1: have only just in the last few years come to
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Speaker 1: to think that animals deserve some sort of um rights. Right.
5:39
Speaker 1: It's a very new idea, isn't it. It is new Ish? Okay,
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Speaker 1: like maybe eighteenth century Newish. Yeah, England leads the way.
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Speaker 1: Our British friends um past the first anti cruelty laws
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Speaker 1: against animals in well even before that, Jerry May Bentham
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Speaker 1: he wrote a paper on how animals could possibly suffer
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Speaker 1: and maybe we should start treating him differently late Sevre
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Speaker 1: kudos to him. Yeah, and did you know that he
6:09
Speaker 1: is mummified and they bring his body out for uh
6:14
Speaker 1: some annual dinner dancing with the stars at the college.
6:17
Speaker 1: He's a judge at the College um where he was
6:21
Speaker 1: a professor. They bring his body out for dinner every year. Wow,
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Speaker 1: an't that crazy? It's a little weird. Well, good for him.
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Speaker 1: Um still looks great, by the way, does he really? So?
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Speaker 1: Peter didn't start until nineteen eighty A lot of people
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Speaker 1: might think that Pete has been around like since the sixties.
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Speaker 1: Fairly new, um. And then the American Society for the
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Speaker 1: Prevention of Cruelty to Animals was started in eighteen sixty six,
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Speaker 1: So pretty new in a world view, right, but a
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Speaker 1: big picture specifically, and that's general animal rights. Yeah, but
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Speaker 1: chimps in particular. Um. There. I guess the idea that
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Speaker 1: they may be deserve even more special rights than the
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Speaker 1: average lab rat um is based on something that's also
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Speaker 1: fairly recent, which is the discovery or the idea that
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Speaker 1: we share a tremendous amount of similarity with them. There's
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Speaker 1: no other animal that is closer to humans than chimps, right, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I think the number is just over DNA sequence of
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Speaker 1: d N a face pairing. The other part. I can't
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Speaker 1: remember what it's called. Should have written that down. Well, no,
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Speaker 1: that's very like people throw that out like chimps are
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Speaker 1: similar to humans and that's very misleading. The like you said,
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Speaker 1: the genetic sequence of the chromosomes that we share or
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Speaker 1: that are similar in apes and humans are similar. We're not.
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Speaker 1: It's not like if you our DNA and put it
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Speaker 1: side by side, only two percent would be different. It's
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Speaker 1: not like that. And in fact, chimps have ten percent
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Speaker 1: more DNA than humans do I really, So that's that's
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Speaker 1: very misleaning to say. But the point is they are
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Speaker 1: very genetically similar, probably more than any other animal. And
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Speaker 1: we've known that since the twenties. Yeah, and similar enough
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Speaker 1: to that at a certain point people said, you know what,
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Speaker 1: We've experimented on human prisoners long enough and they say,
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Speaker 1: we can't do it anymore, which is a drag. So
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Speaker 1: let's get these chimps in here and uh give them disease.
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Speaker 1: And here we reached the title of the podcast. Um.
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Speaker 1: There As as much as we would like to think
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Speaker 1: that it is a very easy moral ethical question, like
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Speaker 1: should chimps be used for medical research, it's not because
8:55
Speaker 1: if you, as we were saying before, if you like
8:59
Speaker 1: walking around not having polio or hepatitis B, yeah, um,
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Speaker 1: you can go ahead and thank a chimp for volunteering.
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, wait, that was the absolute worst for it.
9:11
Speaker 1: I could have used um for being a basically a
9:17
Speaker 1: test animal on those vaccines, UM and treatments. Uh. Same
9:23
Speaker 1: with contraceptives. Uh. If you like our understanding of addiction,
9:29
Speaker 1: you can thank chimps for that. For being a space animal,
9:32
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and call that out. That's where it
9:34
Speaker 1: all began. The US Air Force said, Hey, we got
9:37
Speaker 1: a space race going on. Let's go get some chimps
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Speaker 1: from the wild. Shoot him up into space, put him
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Speaker 1: in sled cars, test g forces on him. See what
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Speaker 1: can happen. Put him on the giz rocket sled. I
9:49
Speaker 1: guess what's his face was getting a little tired at
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Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, I couldn't see because of all the
9:54
Speaker 1: blood pooled in his retiness. So um pre NASA, the
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Speaker 1: Air Force went and got sick five chimpanzees from the wild,
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Speaker 1: and a lot of these chimps are used today are
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Speaker 1: descendants of those original chimps because they couldn't keep going
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Speaker 1: to get them. After the Site's Convention on International Trade
10:15
Speaker 1: and Endangered Species and seventy five, which basically said like,
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Speaker 1: hey man, you can't just start going and grabbing chimpanzeezer
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Speaker 1: other animals out of the wild. They're in danger. Exactly.
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Speaker 1: So they started breeding these chimps, right they the ones
10:28
Speaker 1: that they already had. After SITES was passed, they said, okay,
10:32
Speaker 1: well we'll just start making them here in America, making
10:35
Speaker 1: them made in America. And I did find it odd
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Speaker 1: or not odd, but a little like distressing that some
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Speaker 1: of those with a lot of these chimps today are
10:44
Speaker 1: descended from those original sixty because of breeding. And it
10:47
Speaker 1: makes sense. But who knew, Well the same with yer Keys,
10:51
Speaker 1: his primates that he had in the twenties, those original
10:55
Speaker 1: four that was the captive breeding program as well. I
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Speaker 1: think he definitely supplemented them with um imports. Yeah, you know,
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Speaker 1: because it was prior to SITES. But he had you know,
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Speaker 1: bread bread, He bred them, they bred, they bred, They
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Speaker 1: did it um And like you pointed out, we should
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Speaker 1: uh say that yr kis is now in Atlanta here
11:16
Speaker 1: in Emery University. After being in Florida for twenty some
11:21
Speaker 1: eighty years, they moved to Atlanta and sponsored by Yale before. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and they got two point five acres at the main
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Speaker 1: station here in Atlanta and then in Lawrenceville just up
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Speaker 1: the road they have the field station, a hundred and
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Speaker 1: seventeen acres of chimpanzee breeding and testing facilities. It's where
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Speaker 1: chimps go to get their drugs. Chimpanzees are endangered, their
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Speaker 1: native to Africa and uh because of their similarities, they thought,
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Speaker 1: you know this HIV thing in the eighties, maybe we
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Speaker 1: should start injecting these chimps and see how and if
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Speaker 1: they develop AIDS. That's what changed everything. The combination of
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Speaker 1: sites and the appearance of AIDS um combined with chimp similarity,
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Speaker 1: like really changed everything. We had a captive breeding program.
12:12
Speaker 1: The federal government sponsored it, and so it became very,
12:16
Speaker 1: very big and mysterious new disease. Yeah, the fear of
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Speaker 1: AIDS and HIV was so enormous that they within just
12:23
Speaker 1: a few years of this captive breeding program that was
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Speaker 1: started by the National Institutes of Health in I think
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Speaker 1: maybe within a year two, there were I think five
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Speaker 1: chimps running around with HIV. The big problem was, as
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Speaker 1: we soon found out that while they can carry HIV,
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Speaker 1: and chimps are the only other animal besides humans that
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Speaker 1: can contract HIV because cats have their own, dogs have
12:49
Speaker 1: their own um, other other apes and primates have their own,
12:53
Speaker 1: but only but only humans and chimps can have HIV um,
12:59
Speaker 1: we on the chimps don't get AIDS, they don't go
13:03
Speaker 1: they don't move into full blown AIDS. Yeah, at least
13:06
Speaker 1: not like humans do. And so it was kind of
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Speaker 1: a big failure on that front. And all the progress
13:12
Speaker 1: we've made on AIDS rechurch has been because of human
13:16
Speaker 1: experimentation basically or watching and seeing. Well, this is another
13:22
Speaker 1: way to put it. Uh nine six The Animal Well
13:25
Speaker 1: Welfare Act outline minimum care requirements for all animals and captivity. Right,
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Speaker 1: So these chimps were, you know, before the site's program,
13:35
Speaker 1: the ones that they were importing, they still had some
13:37
Speaker 1: sort of protection, but it wasn't you know, there weren't
13:41
Speaker 1: that many bells and whistles. It was pretty pretty Southwest
13:44
Speaker 1: Airlines not really Singapore air you know. Uh, I would
13:48
Speaker 1: thought you would have said, like Virgin Atlantic or something.
13:50
Speaker 1: Singapore are really nice. Really, it's up there with like Emirates,
13:54
Speaker 1: Emirates Singapore Japan Airlines is pretty nice to concord. Remember that, Yeah,
13:58
Speaker 1: we should do one on that. Do you remember the
14:00
Speaker 1: time that Phil Collins played a show in London and
14:04
Speaker 1: then Flute was it for live and he played two
14:06
Speaker 1: shows and two different continents within each other. Awesome, Thank
14:11
Speaker 1: you Concord, Thank you Phil Collins. Yeah, well, I thought
14:16
Speaker 1: that might go without saying. I can just open my
14:18
Speaker 1: shirt and shraining my t shirt to say that. And
14:20
Speaker 1: by the way, that's a huge urban legend that he
14:23
Speaker 1: saw his girlfriends rapist in the audience drowning not true.
14:29
Speaker 1: Makes for a good story though. Yeah. All right, getting
14:32
Speaker 1: back to Animal Welfare Act. You said it was didn't
14:35
Speaker 1: have the bells and whistles, said temperatures had to stay
14:38
Speaker 1: between forty and eighty five degrees fahrenheit, not bad, keep
14:42
Speaker 1: him comfortable, Uh, gotta give him food and water. Gotta
14:46
Speaker 1: isolate the sick ones, even though you can get a
14:48
Speaker 1: waiver on that if they're supposed to be sick among
14:52
Speaker 1: their their friends. Imagine that wasn't too hard to get
14:55
Speaker 1: that exception. And um, basically it applied to all chimpanzees
15:00
Speaker 1: were both biomedical and behavioral research, which was good, and
15:04
Speaker 1: all animals, any animal that's being experimented on, any warm
15:08
Speaker 1: blooded animals or in captivity period. Okay, like I think
15:12
Speaker 1: it had just applied to zoos and everything, gotcha, that's good. Yeah,
15:15
Speaker 1: So we had that in place in sixty six sites
15:17
Speaker 1: came along in seventy five, the chimpanzee breeding program came
15:21
Speaker 1: along in and then when that collapsed and failed, UM,
15:27
Speaker 1: the US government was like, oh, what are we gonna
15:29
Speaker 1: do here? We've got literally hundreds of chips running around
15:33
Speaker 1: with HIV there like if they come in contact with people,
15:37
Speaker 1: especially sickos, they could spread right well and they don't
15:43
Speaker 1: live to be twelve, no, sixty. Yeah, So that's and
15:47
Speaker 1: they cost some money to you know, hows and fifteen
15:50
Speaker 1: bucks a day, So it doesn't sound like a lot,
15:53
Speaker 1: but it adds up. That adds up, especially when um
15:55
Speaker 1: there was only about I think five hundred that had HIV,
15:59
Speaker 1: but there was something on the order of like twelve
16:01
Speaker 1: the undred that were that the government was responsible for.
16:06
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just the failure of the HIV AIDS studies. Uh.
16:11
Speaker 1: You can thank Jane Goodall um and groups like Peter
16:14
Speaker 1: and the s p c A in the Humane Society
16:18
Speaker 1: in the early eighties around this time when chimp research
16:20
Speaker 1: was really at its peak, UM for kind of a
16:24
Speaker 1: learning the public to the cruelty of animal testing and research.
16:29
Speaker 1: The Army of the Twelve Monkeys. Yeah, you can thank them,
16:32
Speaker 1: I did. It was Uh, we should talk a little
16:39
Speaker 1: bit about the the Kalston or Colston Foundation um that
16:43
Speaker 1: is now defunct. It was shut down in two thousand two.
16:47
Speaker 1: And here's the deal. Uh, it's controversial depending on who
16:52
Speaker 1: you asked. Frederick Colston was the guy who was a
16:57
Speaker 1: toxicologist who helped develop tree meant for malaria and hepatitis
17:02
Speaker 1: B and AIDS or it was a house of horrors
17:06
Speaker 1: and he performed experiments on human prisoners and then moved
17:09
Speaker 1: to chimps. And uh, you know when one test chimps
17:13
Speaker 1: had their teeth smashed in with a steel ball so
17:16
Speaker 1: they could practice reconstructed reconstructed dental surgery, nine three chimps
17:22
Speaker 1: were cooked to death when the temperature in there and
17:26
Speaker 1: this is New Mexico and their unmonitored enclosure topped a
17:29
Speaker 1: hundred and forty degrees And since n three chimps and
17:34
Speaker 1: I think forty like forty five animals and all died
17:37
Speaker 1: quote unintended deaths at the Colston Foundation. So you know,
17:42
Speaker 1: it sounds like some awful, awful thing going on. But
17:44
Speaker 1: then again, he's developing these treatments for these awful diseases,
17:48
Speaker 1: so it's a very dicey situation. But they were shut
17:51
Speaker 1: down in two thousand two because uh, negligent care on
17:56
Speaker 1: a lot of fronts and any any I mean, there's
17:59
Speaker 1: there are plenty of people who have like a really
18:02
Speaker 1: good um there. They have really good ground to stand
18:06
Speaker 1: on by saying like any animal testing is bad and
18:09
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how well you treat these animals, like
18:11
Speaker 1: shouldn't be experimenting on where they put on this earth
18:14
Speaker 1: to test to save humans. Some people back that. Some
18:17
Speaker 1: people don't write UM. So oh you know, very recently
18:22
Speaker 1: I saw UM. There was some researcher associated with the
18:26
Speaker 1: Center for Great Apes. Yeah, yeah, apparently there's like a
18:31
Speaker 1: number of them, uh, and one of them is in
18:34
Speaker 1: Des Moines, and apparently somebody slashed the heels of UM
18:38
Speaker 1: an infant chimp to keep it from being able to
18:42
Speaker 1: stand upright. And this is like December, like a couple
18:45
Speaker 1: of months ago. So one of the one of the
18:48
Speaker 1: researchers acted as a whistleblower. Yeah, um or for a test,
18:54
Speaker 1: not that I don't think that was the I don't
18:56
Speaker 1: think that was the experiment. I think it was related
18:58
Speaker 1: to it. But one of the researchers there was like,
19:01
Speaker 1: I'm getting this chimp and all the rest of them
19:03
Speaker 1: out of here and taking them down to another center
19:05
Speaker 1: for grade eights UM, the main one in Florida. Yeah, well,
19:10
Speaker 1: just to finish up on the Coulson Foundation. The good
19:13
Speaker 1: news is, as of two thousand ten, about half of
19:16
Speaker 1: the TCF chimps are now living at Save the Chimps,
19:20
Speaker 1: which is basically where you want to be if you're
19:23
Speaker 1: a retired chimp. Swinging, playing, running around, eating bananas, holding hands,
19:31
Speaker 1: all that good chimp stuff. So well, let's talk about this.
19:33
Speaker 1: That's the result of a sea change that was started
19:37
Speaker 1: by Jane Goodall and and Peter and UM, a lot
19:41
Speaker 1: of the Animal Liberation Front UM and Matthew Broderick. Yeah,
19:45
Speaker 1: what was the name of that Project X? And interestingly,
19:49
Speaker 1: real quick I just saw today. I didn't realize this
19:51
Speaker 1: Project X was a movie that raised awareness for mistreatment
19:58
Speaker 1: of chimps, obviously in medical reas, but Bob Barker at
20:01
Speaker 1: the time accused them of mistreating animals on the set. Yeah,
20:04
Speaker 1: here's a huge, huge animal cruelty guys. And he got
20:08
Speaker 1: sued for defamation for that really yeah, and settled out
20:12
Speaker 1: of court, actually against his wishes. He settled out of
20:14
Speaker 1: court because he still believed that they were mistreated and
20:17
Speaker 1: like said that they were like clubs and billy clubs
20:20
Speaker 1: and batons used and they used like a snake to
20:23
Speaker 1: scare the chimps and stuff to get reactions. Yeah, but
20:26
Speaker 1: that was just a joke. That was just a you know,
20:29
Speaker 1: a prank on set in between takes. But yeah, projects
20:33
Speaker 1: go to see it, Hele and Hunt, go see it
20:35
Speaker 1: in your in the theater near you in your time machine.
20:38
Speaker 1: Did you see the Ferrespeuler commercial at the I saw
20:41
Speaker 1: it out of the corner of my eye at the
20:43
Speaker 1: superb Owl. Were you disgusted? Uh? I was looking forward
20:46
Speaker 1: to it because I heard about it beforehand and it
20:48
Speaker 1: was it was pretty bad. Yeah. Hey man, he's got
20:53
Speaker 1: to support his kids. Oh dude, I'm sure he made
20:55
Speaker 1: a mint good for him. Um. So, okay. We were
21:00
Speaker 1: talking about Matthew Broderick in his career UM, which led
21:04
Speaker 1: directly to a sea change in how people feel about
21:07
Speaker 1: animal testing and specifically about chimpanzee testing UM, which is
21:13
Speaker 1: kind of evidenced by the fact that Congress and its
21:16
Speaker 1: endless ability to pass legislation with qut si names and acronyms.
21:22
Speaker 1: This one was surprised me even in two thousand, Congress
21:25
Speaker 1: pens the Chimpanzee Health Improvement, Maintenance and Protection Act. And
21:30
Speaker 1: guess what that spells out, chimp. Yeah, they passed the
21:33
Speaker 1: Chimp Act in two thousand and Basically this said your
21:37
Speaker 1: captive breeding program was gone once a chimp is retired
21:41
Speaker 1: from biomedical testing or behavioral testing. I believe too, you are.
21:46
Speaker 1: You can't kill it, sorry, all those um monkeys running
21:50
Speaker 1: around with HIV, you can't euthanize them. You have to
21:53
Speaker 1: provide for their care for the rest of their lives
21:55
Speaker 1: and natural natural lives, which is pretty cool. It's bad
21:59
Speaker 1: enough that given them HIV, at least care for them.
22:03
Speaker 1: But this extends only as far as I know to UM.
22:07
Speaker 1: Federally funded chimp programs, pharmaceutical companies that own it's federally
22:15
Speaker 1: funded in pharmaceutical companies. All the chimps in the United
22:18
Speaker 1: States are owned by them. That aren't pets, I should say, um,
22:21
Speaker 1: they pharmacutic companies exist outside of this act, of course,
22:30
Speaker 1: So Josh, if I were to ask you how many
22:33
Speaker 1: countries in the world in the world still experiment on
22:38
Speaker 1: chimpanzees legally, what would be I would say? Since the
22:42
Speaker 1: United States, since a um, it's such a standard bearer
22:49
Speaker 1: of human rights and animal rights. Sure that if the
22:54
Speaker 1: United States still allows it, at least ninety two a
22:58
Speaker 1: hundred and five other countries allow testing on chimpanzees. Am
23:02
Speaker 1: I right, you did a very good job of playing
23:04
Speaker 1: them there. By the way, uh No, United States and
23:07
Speaker 1: Gabon are the only two countries in the world that's
23:11
Speaker 1: still performed biomedical testing on chimpanzees. Great Britain said no more. Uh.
23:19
Speaker 1: Netherlands in two thousand two. I can't even speak Dutch.
23:22
Speaker 1: That would be a travesty. Uh, Sweden in two thousand three,
23:25
Speaker 1: Austria two thousand six, Japan two thousand six. Everyone said,
23:28
Speaker 1: we're drawn a line in the sand. United States still
23:31
Speaker 1: allows it. But two months ago, three months ago, December
23:36
Speaker 1: of last year, big news, the n i H suspended
23:41
Speaker 1: all new grants awesome for biomedical and behavioral research on
23:45
Speaker 1: chimps or apes the great the great apes um which
23:49
Speaker 1: by the chimps, the great apes are chimps, guerrillas, bona bows,
23:53
Speaker 1: and orangutanes. Correct um. So they suspended all new grants.
23:58
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you can't test anymore. They basically
24:00
Speaker 1: established some pretty rigorous criteria moving forward, which means it's
24:04
Speaker 1: got to be necessary for human health and there must
24:07
Speaker 1: be no other possible way to accomplish it. And basically
24:11
Speaker 1: it's kind of being looked at as the beginning of
24:13
Speaker 1: the end because they're finding that nowadays, with cultures and
24:17
Speaker 1: cellular research, you don't need to experiment on chips anymore.
24:21
Speaker 1: You can find out all you need to know Petrie dish. Yeah,
24:24
Speaker 1: the n I H said, hey, um, over the next
24:26
Speaker 1: four years, we're gonna hypercharge our biomedical testing. So we
24:31
Speaker 1: so we, like you said, it can just exist in
24:33
Speaker 1: the Petrie dish from now and we don't have to well, basically,
24:38
Speaker 1: single celled animals that are going to start to bear
24:40
Speaker 1: the broad no far our desire ceaseless quest for immortality health.
24:46
Speaker 1: But you can't hold the hand of an amiba. No,
24:49
Speaker 1: but if you could, I'll bet it would melt you.
24:51
Speaker 1: Hepatitis apparently is one of two areas that they think
24:55
Speaker 1: it could still be useful for. And um, but it
25:00
Speaker 1: sounds like they're genuinely phasing it out. That's great, it's
25:04
Speaker 1: about time. After that it'll just be on gabone. So
25:09
Speaker 1: hats off to places like Save the chimps and what
25:12
Speaker 1: were some of the other ones. Uh, the Center for
25:15
Speaker 1: Great Apes, which by the way, I don't want to
25:17
Speaker 1: defame them at all, not even for legal reasons, like
25:19
Speaker 1: they do a good job. Um. I looked them up.
25:22
Speaker 1: I looked up Save the Chimps, UM, Chimp Haven, the
25:26
Speaker 1: Grade eight Project. I found one in Massachusetts. And if
25:30
Speaker 1: you go on some of like the charity watches and
25:33
Speaker 1: and ratings sites. Um, there's nothing bad for them, except
25:37
Speaker 1: for the fact that they haven't filed with the I
25:39
Speaker 1: r S even though they should for some reason. That
25:42
Speaker 1: This Morning Star doesn't have anything on them. The Golden laptops,
25:46
Speaker 1: but they they um, all of them seem to be legit.
25:50
Speaker 1: But the Grade eight Project, the one that's mentioned in
25:53
Speaker 1: this UM article that lobbies on behalf of the Great
25:57
Speaker 1: Apes for testing and basically animal all right, they're located
26:01
Speaker 1: in Brazil. Um, but keep thinking you're saying grape ape. Yeah,
26:05
Speaker 1: the Great Pape Project, the Center for Grade Apes is
26:09
Speaker 1: bona fide and good too. I couldn't find much on
26:12
Speaker 1: anything that seemed to smack of like the Colston Foundation
26:17
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Yeah. Well, the Colston Colston Foundation
26:20
Speaker 1: actually morphed into uh, save the chimps. Okay, so yeah, yeah,
26:25
Speaker 1: that's in Florida, right yeah. Fort Pierce along with Chimp
26:29
Speaker 1: Have then and the Fauna Foundation. Um there you know
26:32
Speaker 1: they're chimp sanctuaries. It's a nice thing. Yeah, so I
26:37
Speaker 1: guess go there, give him some money, ask in exchange,
26:41
Speaker 1: um for a chimp to hold your hand. Um, do
26:45
Speaker 1: not feed chimps antidepressants and keep them at your house?
26:49
Speaker 1: Is that what happened to the one? Yeah? Remember the
26:52
Speaker 1: woman was like, yeah, he's on anidepressants. He he he
26:55
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done this, And everybody's like, wait, what did
26:57
Speaker 1: you just say? She's like nothing, do you remember? I
27:01
Speaker 1: don't remember the anti depressants. Yeah, it came out like
27:03
Speaker 1: a coach onlike the Today Show or something like days after.
27:06
Speaker 1: She was like, I had him on anti pressants. I
27:09
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. She was messed up too well
27:12
Speaker 1: she oh yeah she was. It was pretty gnarmly. Oh
27:15
Speaker 1: the yeah the victim, Yeah yeah that was something man. Okay, well, um,
27:21
Speaker 1: we were all over the place there. If you can
27:24
Speaker 1: figure out where we where we stand on this, hats
27:27
Speaker 1: off to you. You got anything else about chimps? Great
27:31
Speaker 1: apes are the Four Great apes, chimpanzees and orangutang's uh maccaws,
27:37
Speaker 1: that's a bird, my Cobbs, No, uh, Clint Eastwood, that's everywhere,
27:45
Speaker 1: way but loose. That's an orangutan right now, right turn
27:50
Speaker 1: Clyde Bonabo, bona bos or bonobo uh, orangutans, gorillas, and chimps.
27:57
Speaker 1: That's right. In humans, Zippy the Chimp was my favorite
28:00
Speaker 1: toy growing up. I had a little hand you could
28:03
Speaker 1: squeeze and it made a little squeaky noise. So yeah,
28:07
Speaker 1: that was my favorite little toy. Zippy the Chimp. Awesome.
28:10
Speaker 1: I bet you I can get one an eBay, okay,
28:13
Speaker 1: because mine is probably, you know, disintegrated. Because I'm ninety,
28:19
Speaker 1: I'm glad somebody finally said, um, okay, well that's it
28:23
Speaker 1: for chimps. Then. I was not expecting you to mention
28:26
Speaker 1: that when I said, if you do you have anything else? Yeah,
28:28
Speaker 1: I just actually I just remembered about Zippy the Chimp
28:31
Speaker 1: first time I thought about that twenty some years. Okay. Um.
28:36
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about chimps and biomedical testing,
28:39
Speaker 1: including the delightfully named Chimp Act of two thousand, you
28:43
Speaker 1: can type in uh, what's it called chuck what happens
28:48
Speaker 1: to chimps? Used the medical research or any one of
28:50
Speaker 1: those Christen Conger right, yeah, she wrote, both of the
28:53
Speaker 1: ones who recorded today this Hey Conger day in the
28:57
Speaker 1: search bart how stuff works dot com and if let's see,
29:01
Speaker 1: I said how stuffworks dot com and search bar right now. So,
29:05
Speaker 1: of course, as ever, without interruption or fail, it's time
29:09
Speaker 1: for a listener and mail. Except what there's interruption and fail? What? Uh?
29:18
Speaker 1: You wanted to talk about our million U? What is
29:22
Speaker 1: it called the million March March for the millions? The
29:26
Speaker 1: million dollar mark, million dollar March March for the millions.
29:29
Speaker 1: That's good, too much of the million sounds more like
29:31
Speaker 1: a car sweep steaks or something like that. The million
29:34
Speaker 1: dollar March on Kiva Kiva team is rounding the band
29:38
Speaker 1: towards towards having lent a million dollars. That's just baffling
29:44
Speaker 1: to me. By the end of March, we're well on
29:47
Speaker 1: the way, We're assured by Glenn and sonja um and
29:51
Speaker 1: uh yeah we are the official team captains down. So
29:54
Speaker 1: we set the goal. You set the golden shape. Yeah,
29:56
Speaker 1: I typed it up. It's nice of you, um, but
30:00
Speaker 1: we are not snobs are KEYPA. Team is extremely open
30:03
Speaker 1: and accepting and if you'd like to join and Lenn,
30:07
Speaker 1: don't just join. Why would you just join and not lend.
30:11
Speaker 1: It's weird people do it. I get joining Facebook and
30:15
Speaker 1: just stalking people right or just like sitting there and
30:17
Speaker 1: saying like, Okay, I'm here, I'm not gonna do anything
30:21
Speaker 1: on it. This is this, this is different. This team
30:24
Speaker 1: is all about action, baby, just one loan, Just do
30:27
Speaker 1: one loan or do several, um. But the team's very supportive.
30:31
Speaker 1: The message board is very helpful. If you have any questions,
30:34
Speaker 1: you can ask and people will tell you and you
30:37
Speaker 1: can say, hey, I think this people need these people
30:40
Speaker 1: need their loan fulfilled. Help them and people will go
30:43
Speaker 1: and it's fun. It's cool. Um, but we are almost
30:46
Speaker 1: two a million dollars and if you want to join
30:48
Speaker 1: and help, you can join us on uh www, dot
30:52
Speaker 1: k i v A dot org, slash team slash stuff
30:57
Speaker 1: you should know and join up start lending and it'll
31:01
Speaker 1: be cool. And you know, we don't mind if you
31:03
Speaker 1: join up here at the last minute and kind of
31:05
Speaker 1: receive some of the credit as hey, I helped them
31:08
Speaker 1: reach a million bucks even though I just joined a
31:10
Speaker 1: month ago. Who cares? We love that well, yeah, bandwagon
31:14
Speaker 1: ears are welcome. Yes, that's fine as long as you're
31:17
Speaker 1: doing some good um and I guess that's a huh.
31:22
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31:24
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31:26
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