Latest / Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle / EP 11: E-Bikes, Etiquette, and The Path Forward
Transcript
- Brandon Morphew AI: Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, Marketing the Bicycle with Brandon Morphew and Chris Melman of MISO Partners. Brandon Morphew: E-bikes are bringing a lot of people back to riding. They're also forcing communities to rethink what it means to share the path. Today, I'm talking with Tom Mulligan, owner of Pedego Electric Bikes in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Tom spent 20 years in social work before opening his shop in 2021. And that meet people where they are mindset shows up in everything from first rides to service to etiquette conversations. happening out on the trails. Tom, I'm really glad you're here. Let's start with your origin story because your path into bikes is not the usual one. How did you get here? Tom Mulligan: Yeah, great question. ⁓ Well, bikes have always been a big part of my life, Brandon. Thanks for having me, by the way. I'm really happy to be here. ⁓ Yeah, bikes have been a big part of my life ⁓ since I was able to ride one. It started out with my bicentennial Stingray that my dad got me ⁓ when I was six years old. And it just kind of took off from there. And I did a lot of dirt bike riding on that Stingray, which had varying degrees of success. And then I finally got a real dirt bike. ⁓ and rode that around mostly as an enthusiast. I think I tried a few races, but it just wasn't like my thing. I was more interested in just riding with buddies and just, you know, being crazy on bikes. And then as I got older, I started commuting on a bike ⁓ in my late teens and in my early 20s. I lived in Fort Collins, Colorado, which is a great biking town, awesome infrastructure, even in the late 80s and early 90s. ⁓ So that really ⁓ kind of tightened up the interest there around bikes and just bikes as an adult. ⁓ And then road bikes came along for me and I started doing some state rides. I did Rag Bride and ⁓ I did a ride through Idaho and Wyoming did a ride there. So these are week long rides and they're supported. yeah, I just have always enjoyed bikes. so ⁓ as COVID came around my my interest in social work was ⁓ feeling a little ⁓ dry and I wasn't feeling it quite as much after 20 years and but I still really enjoyed ⁓ helping people and engaging with people in a constructive way to help them move from point A to point B whatever that might be. the opportunity for ⁓ I rode an e-bike and I was just thought this was a game changer and in my area here in Grand Rapids we have a lovely network of trails ⁓ and the opportunity was there. We had a little bit of a question of whether we were going to do it in 2017 but the timing wasn't quite right so it was kind of put on the back shelf until 2021 and we opened the shop basically just hung a shingle out on the door with some bikes in the shop and ⁓ gave it a run. I sold my first bike 10 minutes after I opened. Brandon Morphew: That's awesome. That's great. Just thinking about ⁓ Grand Rapids and when you need to clear your head, what's your go-to ride? Tom Mulligan: ⁓ When I need to clear the head, the e-bike is really a nice way to go. We have, like I said, lovely network of trails here, so I can be out for a couple hours and really just kind of enjoy the experience, the wind and my lack of hair, ⁓ just running some errands in the area and just really just enjoying the time on a bike. ⁓ That's a good clear the head thing. If I'm feeling a little crunchy and I just want to grind it out a little bit, Brandon Morphew: Thank Tom Mulligan: hop on my road bike. ⁓ It's a kind of an older specialized delay and ⁓ it's been around a while and it's gotten me through many state rides and ⁓ I still enjoy riding it. ⁓ And yeah, so that's my kind of my grinded out bike and then I've got a fat bike that I'll do in the winter time ⁓ occasionally. so yeah, different rides for different situations for sure. Brandon Morphew: How about customers? What are you finding ⁓ that customers are really loving when they walk through the door? Tom Mulligan: Yeah, great question. It's changing, I think very quickly. I think in 2021 when we opened, ⁓ a bike with a motor and a battery was really just a thrill for people. ⁓ And then getting comfortable on it as well and having good support and service. was kind of, it was pretty simple. ⁓ think, and I think over the last two to four years or so, customers are getting a little more sophisticated. There's a lot of brands out there. They know the good ones from the bad ones. ⁓ I feel like they're really understanding why you would ride an e-bike. ⁓ Whereas, you know, five years ago it might have been because I don't want to work that hard. And now it's becoming, well, you know, this can be fitness for me, while for somebody else it might be transportation. For somebody it might just be, you know, for a youth to get back and forth to baseball practice. So it's becoming a little bit more of a utility for some folks. Whereas I think, you know, five years ago, or even before that, I've just been been here five years. E-bikes, of course, been around a long time. So I think for a lot of folks, just the thrill of being able to ⁓ integrate an e-bike into their day to day has really made them a bit more of a sophisticated ⁓ customer, a little bit more informed. Now I think we're moving into an area where we need lighter weight bikes ⁓ and we need bikes to also be comfortable. ⁓ They need to be easy to travel with. So I think there's some nuances coming along in the market that these brands are going to start responding to ⁓ that are going to ⁓ continue to kind of push the market forward and bring some new customers in. Brandon Morphew: Nice. I'm excited about some of the innovations that are happening in e-bikes specifically. just came from Cabda and it's lightweight is a really good call. Are there any brands or any products that you see specifically that you can point to that you're impressed with what they're putting out right now? Tom Mulligan: Nice. Yeah. I really like Ertopia. I think they really lead the way on the lightweight bikes and they also stay pretty comfortable. I'm a dealer for Ertopia as well, so I carry the Pedego brand and Ertopia and then I have a handful of other brands that I can order in. But those two are my primary like shop brands in the showroom. And they really have something really going well for their production. Their bikes come out of the box in really good shape. ⁓ nice, clean, working well, put together very well. ⁓ And so that makes our job a little easier. And their customer support, whenever I bring a new brand in, that's almost like, in terms of like my weighted interest in whether I would bring the brand in is their customer support. If they don't have, they got great bikes, but they don't have great customer support, I'm out. I gotta have a company that's gonna answer the phone, respond to emails, ⁓ and support the bike with parts reliably. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Tom Mulligan: And if they can't do that, there's not much in there for the future for me because there's going to be issues and I don't want to have paperweights in the back of the shop. I think that goes for all of us, right? But Ertopia does a nice job and then ⁓ I'm excited to see what Pedico is going to do over the next year or so ⁓ and see how they're going to respond to some things in the market that are going on. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, yeah. Nice. One of the things we sent you a survey, think, ahead of the call. And one of the things is you consider yourself a process guy. I'm wondering if there's one early process that you brought into the business that's really helped the business to function and feel real. Is there anything you can share? Tom Mulligan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, being a social worker, I wasn't a licensed, like, counselor social worker. I was a program manager and worked with a number of nonprofits who worked with lots of clients. So I had a caseload of anywhere from 15 to 75 clients. Sometimes I was a program manager, so I had staff kind of working on that. But when you have that many clients, really having a checklist is really an important part of making sure everybody's getting the qualities support that they need. And I need it. I brought that with me pretty quickly. And you know, it's not anything revolutionary. mean, a lot of people have checklists on things. ⁓ But for me, really became ⁓ from the sales from the time the sale is occurring until the time the customer gets kind of a feedback survey. that whole process for me has to be really well locked in because I think some really good quality can fall through the cracks in that process. So for us, know, once they get their receipt and their serial numbers and they're out the door, ⁓ we have, we register the bike for them. So that's a really important step to make sure ⁓ we get that done for the customer that helps support the warranty. That's not the first thing we do. Really the first thing we do is follow up with them a couple of days later and just ask how the bike's doing. So that's the first step. And this is all kind of leading up to a positive review. So positive review kind of comes last. So ⁓ it's that follow-up phone call and then ⁓ they get a follow-up email like again just checking in make sure everything's okay ⁓ and then ⁓ we then we register and then I follow up with them again by phone and just say hey your bikes registered you're all set your bike and your battery in some cases they're registered separately ⁓ and it really gives us an opportunity to touch point as many times as we can without being too annoying but just to let them know that ⁓ we are We're here and they know that but we just want to reinforce that and frankly, you know It's an opportunity to address any issues they're having which can also facilitate that great rapport and that great support for the customer and then you know, once everything's good and they're registered and Everything's you know buttoned up that way and then we send a request for a review out and I'd say maybe we get 30 % Well people will leave us a review Which is I'm good with that, you know, if I get 10 to 15 new positive reviews a year, I'm happy. I don't need 40 or 50. I ⁓ just need recent ones, because I think most of us just look at the last few that have been through. We look at the one star reviews and the last few five star reviews. I think that's generally how we go. So if I get a few of those out of all of that process, I'm happy with that. Brandon Morphew: Got it. Are you using any tools for the review? Like are you using NPS tools or anything to support the? Tom Mulligan: So we have some tools through our POS system ⁓ and we're able to just kind click, click, click and send an email out pretty quickly and that comes with a link. Yeah. Brandon Morphew: Okay, nice. Yeah, excellent, excellent. ⁓ One thing you mentioned ⁓ in that survey was staffing and thinking about this process and sort of like staying in touch with customers. And you mentioned this, the e-bike piece specifically around, ⁓ it's uniquely hard with tech and staffing. I wonder if you wanted to share a little bit about what you're finding and where the gaps are in recruiting. Tom Mulligan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, and I don't know if it's e-bikes or there's some other sort of mechanism there that prevents, you know, qualified techs to come over and work in an e-bike shop. ⁓ I pay better than a traditional bike shop, at least for this market, ⁓ and have a good place to work, you know, great customers, good product, you know, pretty easy to kind of come in and settle in. So the only thing I can think of is maybe some of these techs just really like working on 12 pound road bikes and you know just make makes their life a little easier and maybe I think there might be a little bit of a burnout rate for some techs out there and they're just like I don't want to add e-bikes to the complications I already have. A lot of that's just projection for me. I don't really know that for sure. Brandon Morphew: Hmm. Tom Mulligan: ⁓ But I have found that's successful are our good bike techs who enjoy e-bikes who ride who are enthusiasts about ⁓ about an e-bike. But what have found that's been are our good bike techs who enjoy e-bikes who ride e-bikes are enthusiasts about ⁓ about an e-bike. ⁓ ⁓ I have one tech who commutes on an e-bike and drops his kids off to school every morning on an e-bike and just loves it and he's a great tech. So he's really my backbone. ⁓ The problem sometimes is ⁓ it really makes me feel vulnerable. know, he's a sick kid away from, you know, having to call in because he's also stays home with his kids. And or, you know, some sort of catastrophe of some sort that kind of pulls him away from the Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Tom Mulligan: shop, it really makes me vulnerable and not being able to refill that position. So that's a little concerning. ⁓ I've also got another tech that ⁓ that does support us. ⁓ He's also very good. He's a traditional bicycle tech and he branched out on his own and started working on e-bikes. So he's been really good ⁓ in supporting us as well. So he has his own shop that he just does repairs on e-micro mobility things and then supports us as well. And he's quick, know, he's he knows. He can get in and out of a bike pretty quickly and that's gold for me. I can find someone that can get in and out of bikes like that in a fairly short order and fix e-bikes like that, ⁓ that's a really sweet spot for us. ⁓ But going forward, I do believe that this is gonna break free somehow and we're gonna see some techs making the transition over because that's kind of where the market's going. So ⁓ it really is about just continuing to put the word out offer training, support, ⁓ and pay them. I mean honestly these are skilled individuals with ⁓ a lot to offer and I take a lot of pride in taking good care of them as best as I can. Brandon Morphew: Nice. ⁓ Thinking about the training and sort of like what does a full service e-bike tech and then ultimately a full service e-bike shop, what does that require from your point of view behind the scenes? Tom Mulligan: Yeah. So, you know, I'm always looking in my sweet spot for in terms of staffing ⁓ is five years professional bike shop experience. So selling bikes, working with customers, ⁓ doing it with a really great attitude and being able to meet people where they're at. For an e-bike, you could have somebody come in that's been riding a beautiful road bike for the last 20 years and does, you know, can knock out 80 miles without much of a question. But now it's time. I'm just done with all of that. and I want a little motor and a little assistance and I just want to keep riding. That customer is very different than the customer who hasn't been on a bike in 20 years. Look forward to it being a bit of an exercise regimen for them. They want to get out. Maybe they're retired and sitting behind a desk for 25 or 30 years and just need something to just kind of you know break out of that mold and get into something that is just enjoyable for them to ride. Those are two very different customers when they come in the door and in a full-service e-bike shop can talk to both customers in a way that doesn't make them feel intimidated, doesn't make them feel stupid, doesn't make them feel like they're not making a good choice, can help them get comfortable. You know, that's a very different customer than has ⁓ been in traditional bike shops for, I think, you years. A lot of people that come in are just kind of maybe looking for something traditional and, you know, I'm not a traditional bike shop owner so, you know, take this as a grain of salt. Maybe they're not looking for some of the comfort. Maybe they're looking for you know, just a bike that's you know functional and a low cost and they can get around the neighborhood with right so ⁓ Just being able to talk to these different customers ⁓ Who are coming to ebikes for various reasons? I think that's goes a long ways and then I think on the service side ⁓ Being able to ⁓ Understand and diagnose an issue, know somebody we get a lot of hey my bike won't turn on What's wrong with it? My motor is making weird noises. I don't know what's going on with it Being able to have a good attitude and figure out what that is ⁓ We do the training for it. We have some tools we can use but mostly it's just kind of you know expertise ⁓ We try and get things diagnosed in fairly short order and and give folks a pretty good idea of what's going on with their bike ⁓ And that goes a long ways of just being able to do that efficiently and have a good conversation with the customer ⁓ Is a big part of it. And then I think thirdly ⁓ the full service. We rent bikes as well. That's a big part of owning an e-bike shop because it gives you an opportunity to offer people a ride for the first time. Maybe they haven't been on a bike in a while and they just want to try it out. ⁓ That's a really good opportunity. So we give free rentals to customers who buy a bike. That's been really helpful for us. They really like that option ⁓ and really what it offers is an opportunity for them to bring a friend in to go for a ride because it's nice to have family. in town or friends but you if you only have one e-bike that's no fun. So we give them rentals to come in and bring family and friends in and go for a ride. Sometimes that translates into a sale mostly it doesn't mostly it's just good vibes and good rapport that we have another opportunity to connect with the customer. So those are kind of the three areas I think about you know on a full service on a full service thing. Brandon Morphew: in the next. I like that. I like that. And that sort of lends itself well into this sort of bigger reality, which is, you know, more people riding e-bikes in shared spaces starts to get complicated. You know, you've been a part of these local conversations about the paths and, and, and what the guidelines are, you know, what, what problems are you trying to solve? Tom Mulligan: Yeah. Good question. ⁓ I think the first one off the top of my head is the motos, the little moto bikes that are coming out that don't have any pedals. They've got batteries and motors and top speeds in the 30s and 40s. in ⁓ this particular area, ⁓ we're seeing parents pick these up for kids. ⁓ It's just big concerns there for me. ⁓ I've seen a handful of them out going way too fast on bike trails where there's kids and pets and people walking and older folks who are ⁓ who are ⁓ you know just trying to enjoy the trail on a you ordinary you know bike path. ⁓ So so that's concerning and then the kids being on these bikes that are going that fast ⁓ as 13 14 year olds is concerning because I don't think they have the ⁓ I didn't have the reaction time available at 13 years old to handle anything going over 20 miles an hour maybe, right? So that's a little concerning. And then what we've also seen this year is these kids are trying to fix their own bikes because nobody's fixing them, right? They call around, look for somebody to fix a flat tire or get a new chain put on or address something and nobody's working on them. I won't touch them because you know, we're talking the motos, right? These are the like little mini motorcycles, right? So I won't touch them because it's a little out of our scope. ⁓ Brandon Morphew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tom Mulligan: the model, I don't know the models, the brands, that kind of thing. And so I won't touch them. Motorcycle shops aren't touching them. They can't find anybody to fix them. So they're trying to get into them themselves. And we've seen kind of really concerning issues come through. You know, I'm talking particularly about my other tech who started working on some of these. And he's seeing bikes come in with, you know, hubs that are barely on, know, handlebars that are just way too loose, know, headsets that aren't, you put together correctly. just, you know, it's a little bit of a crap shoot out there and what you're going to get with a 15 year old working on his own bike. So that's a little concerning as well. ⁓ You know, as far as, you know, those are the kind of the main areas of concern I have with those. And yeah, but otherwise, you know, if the bike fits within the class system, the one, two, one or two, and they're on bike trails, you know, I'm not not seeing a lot of concerns there. think some jurisdictions are having some concerns about class twos. I don't know that there's much to be too concerned about there, but ⁓ they're coming up with their ways around working around that. Brandon Morphew: What do you think people misunderstand about the class system, ⁓ where each bike fits in, whether it's the three classes and then these emotos that are out of class? Tom Mulligan: I think that what we educate folks on is if you're in a one, two or three, you're on a bicycle and generally you can go where a bicycle goes. ⁓ If you're outside of that class system, you're in another motorized vehicle of some sort. So ⁓ and that that tends to kind of button up that misunderstanding a little bit for folks. But then you have to have the conversation also about where a class three can go, because that's very clearly it shouldn't be on bike trails where people are walking and there's pets and kids and strollers and things like that. ⁓ You know, I know what happens out there. There's not a lot of enforcement ⁓ So and I think most people understand that that a lot of jurisdictions are putting these ⁓ These rules of the bike trails around but there's not a lot of great enforcement and you know, honestly I don't know that some of these jurisdictions have the budget to try and enforce these kinds of things ⁓ but ⁓ But yeah, I I think that I lost track of the question there for a second, but ⁓ but yeah Brandon Morphew: the sort of misunderstandings, misunderstandings around the e-bike classes system. Tom Mulligan: Yeah, yeah, the class system. Yeah, I think a lot of customers are pretty well clear. At least we try and educate them in a way that one and two are generally okay on a bike trail. If you're on a three, then you should be in the road. And that generally makes people go, yeah, I don't need a three, right? And Pedigo's nice because we can upgrade ours. I think some other brands can do this as well. If you've got a 750 motor in your bike, can set it up as a two or a three. So it gives you the option there, which is nice to have. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I imagine, ⁓ you know, customers, there's going to be customers that want fast and then you have, you know, community needs around safe. And how do you handle that? Like with the customer specifically when someone, you know, when they come in and they want fast and you're sort of, you know, balancing between these two. Okay. Tom Mulligan: Mostly it's the kids that want fast. They're the ones that are like, you know, and I've lost customers because our bikes don't go fast enough, you know, even at 28 miles an hour, which I'm fine with. If your kid needs to go 35 and you want to support them going that fast, then, you know, I'm not going to be the bike shop for you. And that's okay. I'm happy to let that customer go and help them out in some other way down the road. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. We're balancing that with safe. ⁓ like ⁓ customer wants fast. ⁓ But the is ⁓ you know, if they're going to get bike, then want them to be safe. ⁓ Tom Mulligan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. That's a delicate conversation. ⁓ I like brands that allow us to reduce the top speed. ⁓ So a pedigal, can adjust your top speed and I'm sure there's other brands that do the same. ⁓ Where you can put your top speed down to like 15 if you want, right? That's a delicate conversation I think for some folks who haven't been on a bike in 20 years and they want to hop on an e-bike right away. ⁓ And they're not in that greatest shape. So a traditional bike is going to be a little bit too much of a challenge for them to actually, you know. manage comfortably so an e-bike gives them a little bit more confidence in their mind that they can handle this a little better. ⁓ But if you haven't been on an e-bike, you know, and you're not new to bikes, you know, I do believe you can forget how to ride a bike. ⁓ You can, you might be able to pedal and get momentum and balance. But if you're, if you're constantly thinking about, you know, the car or the little rock that you're coming up on or the crack that's there, you know, you're so hyper focused. on just these little things that are going on, you can't be aware of what's going on around you. The traffic, you know, the lights, the things that are going on, can cause some problems. those are variables on bike paths that I think people really need to be careful about. So when we do test rides, ⁓ if I'm concerned ⁓ about how they're riding, I just have to tell them that. And I'm, a social worker, I've got a little bit of skill in being able to just say, I'm a little concerned. About your balance right now ⁓ And if you're comfortable, know, we can continue to ride and sometimes that's I've had customers just spend a half an riding back and forth in our lot ⁓ Just to start to get the feel of it a little bit ⁓ And I'm ⁓ totally fine that ⁓ I've had I've only had one customer tip a bike ⁓ And you know some scratches and things like that. They were totally fine ⁓ But you learn a little bit with each customer just can't be we can't be hesitant to have those conversations with customers on an e-bike who are at risk putting themselves at risk in some way. ⁓ We've taken customers from you know a traditional two-wheel bike put them in a tracer in a trike and they're like okay this is me this is me I only need to go 12 miles an hour and I need three wheels to do it so ⁓ you know that's a good fit for a lot of people so it's nice to have that option as well. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. you Yeah. Excellent. ⁓ Yeah, I remember pro cycling the first few races of the year, you'd always see the skill set was missing. Even within that, these are pro athletes and there were always more crashes in those early races in the beginning of year because a lot of the guys would take time off and you could see it. They didn't have that same, as a group, same as they did at the end of the season. that's a really good point. People do forget how to, not how to ride a bike, but forget a lot of the skills. Well, ⁓ loved it. Like the kind of the feel good story. Like what's what's a know, rentals being the gateway for a lot of people. What's what's your favorite like rental rental to ride or for life story? Tom Mulligan: Yeah, I have, like I said, we give them away for free to customers who buy a bike. So we'll have customers come in and bring some family and friends in. And that's, that's just awesome to see. ⁓ I just sort of as a side note, I get a little concerned renting to kids under 16. Because parents will come in and be like, ⁓ he knows how to do this. And he knows how to, he can, she can do that. She's awesome. She'd do that. You know, the kids are amazing, right? And they, they believe they, the child can hop on an e-bike and just go. Brandon Morphew: Mm-hmm. Tom Mulligan: chances are they're right the kids gonna be fine ⁓ but ⁓ I do require them to be 16. And then they come back the 16 year old will come back and they'll never ride another traditional bike again So there's some there's some You know, there's some of that which I kind of I kind of grimace a little bit when I hear the kid come in and they're like Oh, that's amazing. know, they'll never get on a traditional bike because I think the traditional bike is just such an awesome way to ride but anyways, the We have some trails in our area. It's like 40 miles of trails and one thing we're gonna try this year that I'm really excited about ⁓ We have a concert series that's ⁓ in our area. It's about a 15 minute ride from their shop to the concert. ⁓ So we're gonna do, we're gonna start our ride right around four o'clock and do a two hour ride around our trails and then end it at the concert. ⁓ So people can grab a burger or whatever's there and drink and enjoy the concert. And then we'll pick up the bikes from the concert and bring them back to the shop. can kind of figure out. We just have to figure out some logistics around where they park and how they get back to their car. ⁓ That's a little bit of a thing we have to figure out but ⁓ But the ⁓ but the rental stories, you know is is really about for us this year is going to be about connecting with various other organizations in town the Concerts the restaurants in the area and really trying to use our rental fleet ⁓ to encourage people to visit these businesses in the area ⁓ and dinner or enjoy the show or You know stop and get some ice cream, offer some discounts if they rent a bike, they can get a discount for dinner or something like that. So we're really trying to build some partnerships with area businesses and support them that way. Brandon Morphew: That's fantastic. And I love that, ⁓ you know, sort of incorporating the activities with the bike ride. it's, you know, it's not just about the bike, you know, and we used to do e-bike dinner rides. You know, we'd get together and bring a group of people together because, you know, it's the equalizer, right? It allows everyone to ride kind of at that same pace. So it's a wonderful way to get around and do that. I love that. ⁓ Tom Mulligan: sure. Brandon Morphew: Thinking about e-bikes and e-bike culture, specifically in Grand Rapids, think about five years from now, what does a healthy e-bike culture look like in Grand Rapids? Tom Mulligan: Good question. ⁓ I'd love to sit at a roundtable with that question because I you know with some other shop owners and and tax and things like that because I think that's a really good question. ⁓ Well, think it's I think it's I think infrastructure having good safe infrastructure and a good partner in your local areas to to really bring people out. To me that's what this is all about. It's about getting people an opportunity to get on a bike who maybe don't ride bikes regularly and want to get them. Opportunity to get outside and enjoy the Sun and the fresh air and new ways that maybe they haven't done in a while So that's kind of for me what it's all about. So good infrastructure is in place ⁓ Good education, you know giving giving people a really clear idea about ⁓ you know How any bike works where it can go ⁓ what it's good for what it's not good for some things to think about when you're shopping ⁓ And that's our role as a shop ⁓ to educate ⁓ in that way Good education, you know giving giving people a really clear idea about ⁓ you know How any bike works where it can go ⁓ what it's good for what it's not good for some things to think about when you're shopping ⁓ And that's our role as a shop ⁓ to educate ⁓ in that way ⁓ But I think, know, brought more broadly, you know, when we start looking at the various shops in town, ⁓ I still hear customers come in and say, nobody will work on my bike. ⁓ which I'm not sure why shops do that. I mean, it's an opportunity to build a new relationship with a customer. ⁓ We'll work on almost anything. I mean, there's some junk out there we won't get into because there's no customer support for it. ⁓ So in terms of that culture, having other bike shops in the area to kind of help facilitate the support of e-bikes so we can get more people riding and enjoying the great things that being outdoors has to offer, both emotional health, well-being, and mental well-being, and all the various things that come with ⁓ just having an adventurous life outdoors is really what it's about for me. if we could have more bike shops support that more broadly, I think a lot of bike shops will work on the stuff they sell, which I can't fault them for limiting themselves to that, but there's more opportunity out there to support customers. Brandon Morphew: Well, maybe that roundtable will happen. Maybe that's on the agenda. Just thinking about ⁓ eBike curious, someone's thinking about this and they're a little intimidated. What's the simplest piece of advice for taking that first step? Tom Mulligan: I think, yeah, for sure. to get into an e-bike? ⁓ Well, ⁓ that's a good question. ⁓ I think ⁓ it just depends on the customer and what their history of bikes is. And... ⁓ Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Tom Mulligan: So for a lot of our customers coming in, of haven't been on a bike, you know, in 10 years or 20 years, or we get a lot of, bought my wife a bike two years ago and she rode it once, it's been sitting in the garage. ⁓ That's frequent. ⁓ So I think the first question ⁓ in a conversation for me like that is, you like riding a bike? ⁓ You know, is it something you enjoy doing or, you know, without saying it directly, but, or are you coming in here because your husband wants to buy you a bike ⁓ or vice versa. Do you like riding a bike? Is it enjoyable for you? And then are you comfortable on two wheels? ⁓ Is that comfortable for you? Especially if you haven't been on a bike in 10 years. A lot of times it's, I don't know, I think so, I was 10 years ago. And then they get on one and yeah, they adapt to it pretty quickly and they feel pretty good on it. And sometimes they're like, ⁓ not so much. So sometimes it's just basic, really basic introduction. about ⁓ not assuming that people are ready for this. They like the idea and it's kind of romantic up here ⁓ in terms of what they want to be able to do outdoors. ⁓ it's worth taking an extra beat and to see where they're at. ⁓ Sometimes you don't need to do that. You know it right away. They're fine on a bike. They're comfortable with it. ⁓ But also I think you know, how much do want to spend? Budget is a big deal. Comfort costs money. So if you want to get really comfortable on an e-bike, which is good because you can ride longer and you can sit in the saddle longer. You don't have to take as many breaks. So getting comfortable is good. But that comes with a cost, you know, better seats, better handlebars, better frame design. All of that comes with a little extra cost. know, comfort is comfort both mentally and emotionally on a bike and then also physically. ⁓ is a good conversation to start with. Brandon Morphew: Excellent. That's, mean, fantastic advice. ⁓ Anything else before we go? I really appreciate you being here. I appreciate your time and making time to chat. ⁓ you've got going on that you want to share or? Tom Mulligan: You know, I'm really excited for the new season. ⁓ Every year we take ⁓ Christmas Eve to about Valentine's Day off, close things up and that's my time to get away and go play a little bit. So I'm excited to get things opened up here in another week or so and start some new conversations with folks and see what's to come. I think the whole industry just leaps and bounds every year and ⁓ I'm excited to see where it goes and I'm happy to be part of it. Brandon Morphew: Me too, I'm excited to see where it goes as well. And again, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for making time to chat. And ⁓ yeah, and you're in, ⁓ one more time, the shop and where people can find you. Tom Mulligan: for sure. Yeah, you can find us at the Pedego Electric Bike Shop in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Our website is pedego.grandrapids.com and then we're on the socials as well, Instagram and Facebook. So yeah, any questions? You know, certainly happy to talk a little bit more and help out however I can. Brandon Morphew: Excellent and we'll link your socials in the the post and and and thanks again so much Tom. I really appreciate your time Tom Mulligan: Thank you, Brandon. Really glad to be here.