Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Big Trouble in Little China (1986) - John Carpenter | Houselights #298

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Big Trouble in Little China (1986) - John Carpenter | Houselights #298 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party. Tonight on House Lights, we're
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: covering Big Trouble in Little China from 1986. John Carpenter's
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Kung Fu, Ghost, Monster, and Truck Driver epic in which
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Kurt Russell plays a glib trucker who wanders into Chinatown
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to pick up his friend's fiancée and ends up in
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: a mystical underworld war against a 2,000-year-old sorcerer. It flopped
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: on release, then spent the next 40 years becoming a
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: cult classic. I'm your host, Tristan Riddell, the fully confident
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: white man and slightly unaware that I keep missing the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: actual fight. With me doing all the real work while
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I narrate, Darren Moser, the competent one who gets his
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: fiancée kidnapped and still handles the situation better than anyone.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and John Mills calmly explaining to everyone that monsters are real,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the prophecy is real, and no, there's no time to elaborate.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Big Trouble in Little China means the hero loves his
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: truck more than anything. The villain is a 2,000-year-old man
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: who just wants a green-eyed babe, and everyone treats a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: flying floating eyeball monster as a normal Tuesday. Let's ride
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the Porkchop Express, argue about who the real lead is,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: and find out if Jack Burton really paid his dues.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: This is House Lights.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And I got to
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: tell you that John Carpenter, it's so wild to be
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: revisiting him through the 80s. And I know I said
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: this on a previous episode, but just what an invisible
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: hand in shaping my tastes that this guy had when
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I was growing up and just stumbling across stuff on television.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I hit the UHF station. I'm like, what's this? And
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, It's delightful. I like this. And I think
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: that it's turned me into the movie fan that I
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: am today. He has as much to do with it
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: as George Lucas does.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Darren, what's your exposure to this movie?
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: This was one that I'd seen. I feel like I
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: started several times. Like I remember the scenes in the
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: alley at the beginning and then.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Nothing.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Like as I was rewatching this, I'm like, after they
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: left that alley, I'm like, this is all new. I
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: do not remember any of this. So I don't think
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I'd ever seen this entire movie all the way through. Uh,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: so yeah, it basically a, a first watch.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: In that regard. Yeah. Tristan, I like you mentioned that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: it became a cult classic over decades because you know,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you hit a Gen X or within a certain time range.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Those of us that encountered it on those UHF stations
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and it, It's a core memory that we all share.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: You might as well talk about an early Simpsons season.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Like we light up and we're like, oh, yeah, Big
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Trouble Little China.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: It's so funny that you mentioned that because I my
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: my wife asked me, like, what's next? Like, what are
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you what are you watching for House of Carpenter? And
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I said, Big Trouble Little China. And she just looks
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: at me and goes, Gen X, just like that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: She knows what she's saying. Yes, she does.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And I texted my uncle who is– he's older than you, John,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: but he's kind of young to be an uncle. And
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I texted him that I was watching Big Trouble Little China.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: sending me his favorite quotes, just talking about green eyed women,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you know, and just like, he just started going on
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and on. And it was just so funny. Cause he like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: even though it was via text, you could tell he
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: was just like, Oh my God, Tristan watching this.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: Okay. All right.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I can't tell you how many times at
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: work I've used the gif of them in the elevator.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I got a good feeling about this.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of invisible, you know, just like, just, just
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: to put the cherry on top of a situation where
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: we all know we're about to get our butts handed
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: to us. It's like, yeah, I feel good about this.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Oh, geez. But yeah, that's, I mean,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: the thing is, this is like a first full watch
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: through for you two, isn't it?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: So like, I desperately want to take a back seat. Like,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated to know how this plays for somebody encountering
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: it for the first time. I can't be biased. I
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: cannot be unbiased with this movie. It's an impossibility. So like,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated to hear like what you guys are going
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to say about it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Well, so far, this movie is falling.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I've talked about sometimes when there's certain movies especially kind
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: of the cult classic ones where if you grew up
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: on it like you were you know like you're saying
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: John you were exposed to it at that right moment
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: and then watched it repeatedly and it became that that
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: touchstone like for me I think of a Christmas story
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: like it's a it's a decent Christmas movie but I
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: didn't grow up watching it so I don't have that
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: anchor I feel it's kind of the same for Big
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Trouble Little China like it kind of just washed over me.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And the most engaging part of it for me was
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out if Kurt Russell was doing like
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: a John Wayne impression the entire time. He talks like
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: a cowboy so much in this movie, which isn't bad.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: It's a great part of the character. But I kind
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: of closed my eyes every time he kind of talked
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: and just pictured him saddling up to the bar and
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Or he's like, hey, little lady, how we gonna go
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: get my truck? It was kind of almost catching me
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: off guard. But yeah, this one might need a rewatch
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: from me to kind of sink in because on this
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: first viewing, it kind of just passed. Honestly, I don't
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: feel a connection to it. The quotes weren't zinging out.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: And it just, you know, I kind of might never
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: watch this again. And I'm not obviously saying against that
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: to you guys. I want to chime in and say
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: I was the opposite. I was the exact opposite.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Like, I went in fully expecting to hate this movie
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: because I didn't really hear too much about it. And
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I genuinely, and I say this, I'm not trying to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: be weird. I genuinely thought, I even said this to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: my wife. I was like, there's no way in hell
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: this movie's not racist. Like there's just no way it's
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: not racist. And so I went into it with my
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: expectations really low. And at first I was just kind
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: of like, okay, what is this movie? What's going on? And,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and it just, it started in like, in my brain,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: like I wasn't into it at first. And then all
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: of a sudden the like, like guys in red and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: guys in yellow started coming out of nowhere and, and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: then just started a fight and then Raiden's triplet, you know,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: like just, just started coming out and then doing all
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of a sudden this was a, uh, um, a Mortal
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Kombat movie. And, and then once we got past that scene,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: cause I was rolling my eyes pretty hard, but almost
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: immediately after we get past that scene, I was like, Oh, okay.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I know what this is. Okay. I know, I know
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: what this movie is. Like, it's like Harrison Ford talking
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: to Mark Hamill just kind of clicked in my brain
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: where it's like, it's not that kind of movie kid.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just like, like, don't, don't try to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: wrap your head around it. Like, don't look for the logic.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean that to be snarky. Like, like,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: don't like, there's so many, like, I kept asking myself, like,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, how is that possible? Like, how
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: can he do X? How can he do Y? And
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I had to tell my brain, just shut up and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: sit back and enjoy it. And I did like, and those, like,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: even like the, the, the little, the little quips, like
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: even the little, little, little ones that like, John, I
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: think even text you this one when he goes up
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to the, to the elevator door and he goes, hollow, hollow.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: And then he just cuts it open. I was laughing
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: so hard.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, it's like, please understand the spirit
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I offer this in. To me, it kind of saddens
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: me where you came at it as like, oh, there's
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: no way this isn't racist. It's like, oh, we weren't.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: We're not all knuckle-dragging monsters that were like, ha, ha, ha,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: let's make fun of these. You know it's a Gen
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: X touchstone. And it's a touchstone specifically because I think
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the greatest strength of this, and carpenter is such a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: sly filmmaker he's so like i know what i'm about
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: to be greeted with even if you guys can't hear
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it the eye roll will probably cause something on the
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: richter scale.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Wait let me get my eyebrows closer than mike here
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: there you.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Go this is truly subverting expectations because you have there
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you go you heard it you heard it but the
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: thing is you have uh kurt russell a recognizable marquee
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: name as the quote unquote main character, but he's actually
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: the comic relief. It flips it. He thinks he's the
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: main character, but he's the sidekick. So it's this magnificently
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: clever movie that has.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: You know, the guy we're expecting to be the main character.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Like it's, it's like, it's like the, the, the story
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: told from the sidekicks point of view. And it's like,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that's what the greatest strength of the comedy of this
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: is too, because Jack Burton is the one that's always
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the guy, you know, I'm going to, you know, I
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: can take care of this problem. I can do this thing.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And he's the most inept character in the entire thing,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: except for his reflexes, like his, and, and they at
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: least have the decency to in a comic scene set
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: up how good his reflexes are so that when you
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: have that payoff at the end, you think back and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: you're like, aha, you set me up for this. Well done.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: No, but honestly, like all of that is 100% right.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It's so true because this easily, easily could have been
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a white savior movie, but it's not in the least,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: like not even a little bit. It's kind of like
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a modern Last Samurai and Shogun because... You know, like
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: if you actually watch those movies and slash TV show
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and pay attention. and not just get yourself rage baited
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: and go online and complain about it if you actually
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: watch the stories, it is by no means focusing on
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: a white saviorism trope. Like with this movie, he is
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the reason why the movie got made. Kurt Russell is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the name that attracts audiences to this picture and he
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: is along for the ride. He's the entry point for
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: the white American audience, which is what Hollywood always is
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: gunning for because there's more of us in the country,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: which means more ticket sales. And so they're, they, they
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: need that entry point because if Kurt Russell wasn't there,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: there's no fish out of water. Everybody knows what's going on.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: And so there's no need for, um, what's the word
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for? There's no need for, uh, uh, man,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the word. Um, uh, when you're exposition,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like there's no need for exposition and yeah. And so
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: it's just, and that's the thing is that like, like
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: in John, you hit it on the head where like,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: he's there, he's part of the ride. He's not useless,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: but every time he thinks he's going to take charge,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: then Wayne comes in and just completely saves the day.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And the thing is to, to speak to the exposition, that,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: like there's a great thing that Carpenter did to sort
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: of keep the studio notes at bay, which was start
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: the movie with Egg Shen explaining everything and saying Jack
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Burton is a man of courage was a way to
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: sort of like set it up so that he wasn't
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: just like to give the perspective of, yeah, he's a
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: bumbling dope, but he was a brave bumbling dope. And
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: so he's cool. You know, like that sort of thing,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: because the studio did not understand everything we're talking about.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Like how many times does the studio not get it,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: not get the gag. And like, let's give a tribute
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to Carpenter for being deep enough into the studio system
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: by this point to be like, okay, I know how
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to play this game.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: Fine.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: We'll open with this scene. Everybody will feel that you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: guys will be comfortable with it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Great, great, great, great.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And we'll, we'll get that going. And I think also,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I think it prepares the audience for the fact that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: they're going to encounter this like crazy, mystical, magical thing.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Having that little bit of magic in the beginning immediately
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: says to the audience, okay, it's going to get crazy.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: This is the calm part. And he's got lightning between
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: his hands. All right. We're going to go up from here.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Like you're, It really does a good job of prepping
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the audience for where we're going to go with this.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the beginning kind of reminded me of like the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: beginning of Gremlins, where it takes it's starting in a
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: different location and you're kind of setting the stage. I
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: will say one aspect of the movie I did like
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: once I kind of put my my frame of reference
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: is this movie. lives by the rule of cool like
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: is it cool that three you know samurai guys just
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: drop through a hole in the ceiling and punch the
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: guy absolutely so that's what happens like you just there's
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: so many aspects of the plot where it yeah don't
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: think about it but it works in the fact that
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: It is telling an engaging story with our our bumbling protagonist, quote.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Unquote, protagonist.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is, we all love to come
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: at movies about protagonist confusion. You know, it doesn't bother
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: me here because our protagonist is the sidekick. But I'm like, yeah,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: that's fine. Like there are so many movies we've talked
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: about where it's like, who's the main character?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's because they're all together all the time.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: So it doesn't really matter who the protagonist is, because
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: when you're watching Christine, you have this story and then
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: this story and then this story. And then you go
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: from this story to this story to then to this story.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But with this movie, it's pretty much just, okay, with
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the bad guy, not with the bad guy. With the
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: bad guy, not with the bad guy. So everybody's together
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: unless they've been captured by the bad guy. And so
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: you don't need to understand or fully appreciate who the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: protagonist is because whoever they are, they're probably in the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: same scene together. Now, one thing I want to ask
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you guys about is, okay, So this the first draft
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of this movie, how it got sold was they were
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: it was written by first time screenwriters Gary Goldman and
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: David Z. Weinstein. And the only thing that survived basically
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: was the title Big Trouble in Little China. And the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: original story, it was a Western set in San Francisco
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: in the 1880s. And the hero was a cowboy named
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Wiley Prescott. And the plot involved a Chinese sorcerer and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: a kidnapped fiancee. In that version, the hero spends the
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: movie trying to get his horse back. Richter turned the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: horse into, oh, I'm sorry, Richter, W.D. Richter is the
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: one who rewrote it, and he was also the director
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai, which, yeah, that makes sense.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Don't you dare. That tracks. Don't you dare speak ill
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of that movie.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: I'm not speaking ill, I'm just saying it tracks.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It just tracks. Richter modernized, so Richter was the one
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: who modernized the setting, made it more comedic, and kept
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the sorcerer seeking immortality. And they told Goldman and Weinstein,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you can go back and make some changes if you want.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: But they were left out of the rewrite process. And
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: they're like, no, this story belongs in the Old West.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Do whatever you want with it. And Richter is the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: reason why Jack Burton is kind of played as a
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: blowhard and isn't the real hero. And so Carpenter himself
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: has said that he wanted both Burton and Wang Chi
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: seen as the film's heroes. And the film makes Wang
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the competent one. So they both are heroes, but Wang
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: is the competent one. And I think that just enhances
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Burden as the fish out of water is the reason
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: why we have the exposition. Do you think this movie
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: would have worked with a horse instead of a truck
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and the Old West instead of modern San Francisco?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: No. I'm going to say no. I say no specifically
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: because that's the one that feels like where is the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: audience going to hang their hat on? You go into
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: the Old West and they introduce magic into it and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you have all of these things and getting a horse.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: There's nothing relatable from the 80s forward to somebody trying
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: to go get their horse. It's like, what?
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: What? Huh?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But a trucker who lives in his truck, all of
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: us understand at least how truckers live. And it's like, oh, well, yes,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: if his truck is gone, his livelihood is gone. Everything
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: is gone. But additionally, I think it's just too distant
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: from audiences. And I think it also doesn't work because
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Western comedies, ask anybody who's made one, are incredibly difficult
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: to get an audience to go along with. There have
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: been plenty of Western comedies. They don't work to varying degrees.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: And I think that it would have doomed this movie
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: had they set it in that time period and had
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the horse instead of the truck and everything like that.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I think it would have doomed it.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't exactly do well as it was,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: but you know, hey.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Even more doom.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Right now. I, I think it could have worked. I,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, I, from the beginning said that I felt like, uh,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: you know, Kurt Russell was playing it as a Western
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: with a lot of his dialogue and a lot of
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: the ways he was chewing the scenery. So it makes
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: me think of, um, uh, like not high noon. That's
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: the actual one.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: Shanghai, Shanghai noon. Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing that came to my mind.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Silverado.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: You know, even you have things like three amigos, you know,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: but the Shanghai ones, more of the straight man, funny man,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: you know, banter that we get this.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: You're remembering some stuff that worked, but I, you're absolutely right.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of, is not a lot of
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Western comedies that, it's incredibly difficult for, you know, to
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: work with.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Sorry, sorry.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's the first thing that came to my mind
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: was Cowboys vs. Aliens, which is unfortunately terrible.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I think of Rustler's Rhapsody, which, you know, I have
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: a fondness for, but, you know.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I agree with you on Western comedies don't always land. Oh,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Seth MacFarlane's Western comedy was one.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: A Million Ways to Die in the West. A Million
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Ways to Die in the West. I didn't even bother
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: with that one.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It's better than People Lit On, but I'm a big
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: MacFarlane fan. While I agree with you on the Western
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: comedy is a hard sell, I don't agree with you
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: on the loss of a horse. Because we get it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: We get the horse is your livelihood. And also you
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: can have an emotional connection with a horse easier than
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: you can with a truck. But that's neither here nor there.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So one thing that I do want to talk about
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: is we often give a lot of credit to Dean Cundy, who,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: you know, after Halloween, he did The Fog, Escape from
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: New York and The Thing. And he went on to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: shoot Back to the Future, Who Framed Rabbit and Jurassic Park.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: But the visual effects by Richard Edlund and Boss Film Studios,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: he worked on Raiders of the Lost Ark, Poltergeist and Ghostbusters.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: That is a resume.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Well, and the thing is, the effects in this movie
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: are better than they have any right to be. In
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: all honesty, a movie with a concept like this done
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: by a guy who's used to working on a shoestring
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: and everything, watching it, especially if you watch like, you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the Blu-ray or the 4K or something like that, like
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: you see the effects, you're like, this is really good effects.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Like you wouldn't expect this from this movie.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Do you remember, okay, that shot, where um lao pan
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: low pan low pan low pan is in his old
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: form and then all of a sudden his skull lights
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: up like from the inside like and his fingers get
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: elongated and everything like that the the light coming in
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: eking and dripping out of his skull and illuminating every
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: single nook and cranny inside his cranium. It was insane.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: It was like my favorite shot of the movie.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: That's an amazing shot.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: It was an amazing effect. I absolutely loved it. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: it's just so funny because this is a movie where
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it tackles human trafficking and it has amazing special effects.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: but then a floating orb with 15 eyes that gets
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: shot and stabbed.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: A beholder to Dungeons & Dragons fans, I'll just go
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: ahead and say. All of the nerds, when they saw
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: that for the first time, they're like, oh my gosh,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: somebody did a beholder.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: So, Darren, I want to ask you, how did you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: feel about the look and feel of this movie? The
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: production design... the cinematography, just like, did this feel like
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a Carpenter film to you? And if it didn't, what
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: did you think of it overall?
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Those are a lot of good questions. I think it
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: felt soundstage-y.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Like I know it was shot obviously in a sound,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: but like it, after we got out of the alley,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: which even you can feel when we're in the soundstage alley.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: The alley was very soundstage-y.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Very soundstage-y. Again, not a, not a Cardinal sin. It's
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: just what it looks like. And, you know, as we're descending,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: going down and down and down and down in this building,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: you know, it felt again, like I could feel the
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: walls of the constraint of the story. Like I never
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: felt like there was anything more than that. But as
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: far as it's feeling like a Carpenter movie.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, well, one, you got Kurt Russell right there.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: 50% just feels like more of a Carpenter movie just there.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: But, Yeah, I think the way we're starting to see
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Carpenter's stories and how he's really able to give you
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: a variety, like, you know, his style is almost like
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: a lack of style.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Where you can go from the psychological drama or not,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: maybe not drama, but psychological action, like the thing to,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of the semi absurdity of Christine and,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: you're going to get what the story needs. So I
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: will say that I can see that. And we got
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: some carpenter tones played throughout, and I'm happy with that.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: John, same question. Well, I mean, carpenters, just to address that,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: carpenter scores are always a lot... Carpenter scores are better
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: whenever Alan Hoarth is working with him. I just consider
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: that absolutely a non-negotiable sort of thing. Hoarth brings something
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: to enhance and enrich Carpenter's natural musical tendencies that I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: think really, really work well. So, I mean, that's the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: most important thing. In terms of the questions about the
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: look and feel of everything, right? I understand what you're saying, Darren,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, this is a living comic book. So,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I promise you it's not just nostalgia or affection for
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the movie that's making me like, quote unquote, lenient here.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: But the movie itself, basically, just from the first moment,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: is like, this is a, like, I imagine this, it
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: lives in my head. It's like an adaptation of a
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: graphic novel sort of thing. Where I'm like, this is
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: what these panels look like. And I understand what you're
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: saying about the constraints of the thing. I know I'm
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: on a soundstage, that sort of stuff. But I never
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: get the sense that they're interested in having this rich,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: sort of expansive world created. It's about what's going on
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: in front of you. And I think it just looks...
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: beautiful enough that I don't mind. Because I think that
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: the look and feel completely serves the tone and the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: scope of the story. And it feels like this wild
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: world that I stepped through a looking glass. And so
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I'm good with that. I think that the truth of
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: it is that, and I'm sure we'll talk more about
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: this as we go forward, but like, The question for
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: me is, is does this movie work at all without
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Kurt Russell's absolute commitment to using every ounce of his
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: charisma to project Jack Burton out.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: To the audience? I don't think so.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: No, no, I'm sorry. I completely misled you.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: You did. I feel cheated now. This is unfair. I, you.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Know, I'm a huge Kurt Russell fan, obviously not as
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: big as you, but I feel like this could have
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: been played by a few people. Not everyone. I don't
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: think anyone.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Could have done it right now. I want, I want names.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I want names right now. Who could have played this
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: as well?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: In 86, not Kurt Russell.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Comedic chops. You got to give me a, let's just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: say Eddie Murphy and throw in some, a child and
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: maybe a golden child.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Like something like that. Golden child. Have you ever seen
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the golden child?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Um, it defeats your argument. So go on, throw somebody
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: else in front of me, please. Ray Liotta. Yes. Famed
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: comedic actor, Ray Liotta, who four years later would be
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: in good fellas.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This could have been a breakout comedic role.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: You don't know. Yes, that's true. Although he did appear
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: in comedic roles later that were very good. Um, no,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like, I'm not saying nobody else could
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: have played the role. I'm saying that Kurt Russell is
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: having so much. It's just like escape from New York.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: He's having so much fun. I'm having fun, too. It
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what you're talking about, Darren, to me, because
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: when Kurt Russell is on screen, it just lights up
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: and he's just having such a good time. Like this
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: is a guy that is just exuding having a great
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: time showing up to work and just having a blast
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: with it. And it comes across. And I think his
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: charisma and this is not to take anything away from
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the other guys. Actors in the movie. I think Kim
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Cattrall is like, this is, she's breaking out of, you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: she's trying to keep from being stereotypically put in certain
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: types of roles here. So she's coming in and bringing
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: her a game. James Hong. Like, I love the guy.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: He's an incredible James Hong is a treasure.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Good Lord. And he, him as low pan is, is
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: so terrific. Dennis Dunn. It is terrific. I love the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: fact that, that Jerry Harden deep throat from the X-Files
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: is in it in the beginning, because that's yay. That's,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: that's always great.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: You recognize that voice immediately before you see him.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Agent Mulder, tell me about Jack Burton. I mean, I just,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I think that there's so much that is so right
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: about this movie and this cast, but Kurt Russell is,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: you just smile when you see him because, you know, Darren,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you're right. He's, he's doing John Wayne in certain scenes
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: and he's just being that guy. And it's like, it's
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: great when he is, it's so much fun. So yeah,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I just, I don't see anybody else can, you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: a contemporary of Russell's at the time that could have
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: brought the same energy to this, this movie.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: I just don't see.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe, maybe, uh, the time. No, No, Bruce Willis.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I can see Quaid.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: No, not Mel Gibson. No, Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson's type
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: of comedic chicanery works in Lethal Weapon. It's not here.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: That's not here.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I think Gibson would have taken over the movie. I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: think Gibson would have been the protagonist.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and also his manic energy that he brings to
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: something like Lethal Weapon is there's always that sort of
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: like serious undercurrent to it. Whereas Russell is bringing nothing
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: but happy, you know, so. I'm just sticking to it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I will say, he was saying nothing but happy. I
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: was cracking up when, what was it, like an insurance
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: salesman or something? Like he snaps back into that, like
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: his Disney era.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: That's all I pictured was the whole like, hi, folks,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: how would you like to, you know, can I please
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: buy some? And that got a good chuckle out of me.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: That was because it's Kurt Russell. Because of his history.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: That, that was the joke.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: But even the way that he plays it as this
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: sort of riff on, you know, the, the, the overly
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: macho incompetent, you don't hate him when he delivers a
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: line like, are you crazy? Is that your problem? Cause
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: it's just like, he's just an idiot. He's just, he's
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: delivering all the idiot lines.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I think that line where like, it's such a throwaway
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: line to where, uh, Kim control, what's her name? Grace.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Grace grace grace gracey law.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Lawyer in case you didn't know she was a lawyer
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: in case you forgot for two seconds.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Uh when he like she says like i can't go
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: in there they'd recognize my face and everything like that
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: and then like five minutes later they're finishing the conversation
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: she's like i wish i could go and he's like
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: yeah that's the problem with your face and then he
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: walks away like it's such a throwaway line and he
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't He doesn't tell it like a joke. He doesn't
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: say it like it's a punchline. He just says it
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: almost like it's off the cuff and then he walks away.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that I do like about
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Burton is that sometimes he just kind of throws that
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: in there. But then there's other times when he hits
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it really hard and you half expect him to go,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Flash Gordon, quarterback, New York Jets.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I know I'm effusive with my praise of this movie,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: but I recognize the limitations you're talking about, Darren. I
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: just think that this is one of those things where
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: it's like the old saw about the hole is greater
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: than the sum of its parts sort of thing is
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: where I am with this.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I do also remember this was one of those moments
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: where I came across a scene that I'd seen a
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: clip from, but I didn't know what it was from.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: And it was one of the elemental guys. I think
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: it was Thunder.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: When he starts to blow up at the end and
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: you see like his face and like streams are coming
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: out of his nose. I'd seen that shot and I'm like,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: I have no idea what this is from.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: And now I do. My life isn't improved by that knowledge,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: but it is there now.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: It's very Total Recall.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: I was thinking like Garbage Pail Kids or something. It
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: was extreme.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Actually, yes, there was a Garbage Pail Kid who looked
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: like that. You're absolutely right. I think there's a riff
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: on your question from earlier, Tristan, where it's like, oh,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: would this have worked in a different time period? I
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: struggle to think of another director other than Carpenter at
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: the time. who's going to have enough tongue-in-cheek wit to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: pull this off without leaning too far in one way
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: or the other. Carpenter is very committed. I'm not saying
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: there isn't another director who couldn't, but Carpenter, it makes
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: sense that he made this movie. I don't see Tony
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Scott making this movie. I don't see.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't see Michael Mann making this movie.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I don't see Catherine Bigelow making this movie.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, I would pay money to see what Michael
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Mann did with this.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: It's four hours long and Lopin is planning a heist
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: to steal the green eyed girl.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: And Jack Burton is going through an existential crisis.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, he is. And his his stepdaughter only likes him. So,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you know, we got a classic in the brewing there.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And all of the fight scenes are, are wire food
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: choreographed within an inch of their lives.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Now I, um, I do like it just, I mean,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you guys, we, we've been watching John Carpenter. This is
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: your first fully watched through. Like, is this like you
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: look at it and you're like, oh yeah, that's a
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: John Carpenter movie. Like it just jumps out at you.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: No, I don't really see a lot of Carpenter in
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: this one. I honestly don't. Like if you told me
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that Carpenter didn't direct this one or he was just
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a producer or something, I would believe you. And like
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: when I was texting my uncle, like the first words
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: out of his mouth was John Carpenter classic. Like he
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: like he very much equates this with John Carpenter. And
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I definitely see the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: joy in it as opposed to Christine. Like with Christine,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: it was it was just felt like a slog. It
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: felt it was a paycheck because it was with this one.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I definitely feel his joy in it. But for some reason,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I don't see his signature other than Cundy. Hmm.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's fair. I mean, what about you, Darren?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Do you look at this and you're like, that's a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Carpenter movie?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: To a point, but mainly looking at it, like all
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: the parts together, the music, you know, that's the synth tones, the,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: you know, the balance of comedy, you know, Carpenter can definitely.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: bring that where.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: It needs to be in a movie but i kind
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: of agree with tristan where if you in a blind
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: taste test and if i didn't know that this was
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: a carpenter honestly i don't think i knew from the
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: beginning as far as what i knew of big troubled
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: little china it wasn't like connected in my mind to
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: carpenter like like halloween is i mean halloween is you
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: know just.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah melded I guess the unfair thing is that Cundy
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: is his guy, you know, through all of these movies
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that we've been watching. And so it's like, how much
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: is the... It's sort of like when Wally Pfister left
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Christopher Nolan. It was like, oh, what's it going to
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: look like when Hoyt Van Hoytman takes over? And you're like, oh,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it looks like a Christopher Nolan movie. Gotcha. You know,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: like there was no visual disparity suddenly. So I think
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: that probably as we go forward, it becomes, you know, like.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Like they're so in, they're so tied in with each other.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: The only thing I would say is that likely you're right, Tristan,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: that like what speaks as a John Carpenter movie is
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: the fact that there's so much fun. Like he's like a,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: a legitimate big time exploitation director because I have a
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: big fondness for exploitation movies. And it's because you can
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: tell that people are just so excited to make a
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: movie and That they're putting it together and like, yeah,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: we're making a movie and like they're going out and
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: they're making a movie and they're having fun. And keep
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: in mind, I'm not talking about like the bad– I'm
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: talking about the stuff like Shaft. That's like really– I'm
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: talking about that stuff.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I was just about to say, I was like, can
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: you imagine if Carpenter directed like Black Mama, White Mama?
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: OK, let's draw the distinction here. I'm talking about the
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: good stuff. I'm talking about the good stuff.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: But it's like it's that whole thing where like when
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: you can tell somebody is just like this is what
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: they were meant to do. It comes across. And I
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: think that comes across in Big Trouble in Little China, too.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Like this is a director. This was his calling. John
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Carpenter was never going to do anything other than this.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: He's not he's not a guy who does other things
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: than this. And I think it comes across here in
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: a joyous way. You know, like I think that's Carpenter's hallmark. And,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: you know, never mind the fact that, you know, it's
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: our third Kurt Russell movie in the series so far.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: So obviously he loves working with Kurt. I mean, how
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: could you not really? I mean, think about it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Darren, I looked it up and apparently Carpenter said that
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: they played Burton as a, quote, blowhard John Wayne. So
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's actually what he is like. That accent
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: was unfortunately. intentional.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Well, in that case, it's even better, more important that
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: this wasn't a Western movie because doing that accent in
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: a Western movie.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: Is like, you can't do that.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: You can't literally try to make yourself sound like John
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Wayne in a Western.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: That's too much.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: All right. So I feel like we're rounding third here
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and I feel like we've answered a lot of important
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: questions about who the real lead is. Um, Burton's incompetence. uh,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: charm of the film. Uh, do you feel like, okay,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: so they were one last question before we get into
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: final thoughts. The, they very much knew that golden child
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: was on the horizon. They knew that there was some
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: similar themes. It had Eddie Murphy who was just a
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: powerhouse at this time. Oh yeah. And, and apparently I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: didn't know this, but John Carpenter was linked to direct
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that film first and, And I can't remember why they
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: fell out, but he was like, okay, if I'm going
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to do this one, we're going to do it fast.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: We're going to get it done months before golden child
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: comes out. So that doesn't even look like we're competing.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: And so he rushed the schedule. Do you feel like
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: that came across on screen?
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I would say it's hard because in one column you
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: have the effects look amazing. Like, and you can't rush
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: those in a way that you can other things. So
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: that would lead me to say no. But I also
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: think of my earlier comment about it feeling very sound stagey.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Like when you rush and you're like, okay, well, we're
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: on the Fox lot and we're not going anywhere. And
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: we're going to crank this movie out versus, I mean,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen Golden Child, but I kind of vaguely
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: remember trailers.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Like it is.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Not good. Well, I'm not saying it's good.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying.
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: location-wise.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Hey, it made $ 148 million. We know what you think
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: of Golden Child. I'm going to make sure that everybody knows.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I don't care that it made $ 48 million.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: It was unearned. $ 148 million.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Whatever. Whatever. Just because of Eddie Murphy.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Do you know what the difference between $ 48 million and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: $ 148 million is?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: That I'm not going to have either amount in my
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: bank account.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: That's the difference.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: That's the difference between the two of them.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, okay.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: John, I'm not even going to ask you for your rating. Darren,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have you go first.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Jerk face.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: You make it sound like that's a different than how
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: we always do it. But you, when you say it
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: like that, backhandedly.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Do you, do you have any other thoughts that you
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: want to talk about? Any other feelings, emotions, reservations, constipation?
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I don't care what it is, whatever you are feeling
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: about this movie.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Well, To our talk about the protagonist, it made me
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: kind of realize something. The way this movie is kind
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: of structured, like we were mentioning, and it doesn't happen
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: often in movies, but when it's such a group, kind
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: of ensemble-ish kind of cast, as far as how the
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: story is flowing, I will say, and I'm coining this,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: so put it on a t-shirt. there are protagonists of
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: the moment, you know, where, you know, yeah, you're fighting
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: the bad guy. You're the protagonist of this moment. Or, oh,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: you have the strongest connection to getting out of jail
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: or attacking so-and-so. Like I said, this doesn't happen very
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: often in movies because usually you need a very clear protagonist.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: But I think that's how this movie rides is you
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: have these protagonists of the moment And sometimes it's Jack,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: but often it's not. And it knows what it's doing.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying this is a negative. I'm just saying
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: it finds a way to make that work.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: It's very interesting. But overall, this.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Movie was enjoyable enough. To kind of dissect again, and
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: I do want to give it at least one more shot.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: I feel this is one of those movies that who
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: you watch it with is really important. If you are
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: watching this with a couple of friends, even if it's
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: not their favorite movie, doesn't matter. But if you're watching
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: with good company, you're going to enjoy this twice as much.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: And I think for me, I was setting myself up
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: watching it just by myself, you know, a little sporadically
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: over a couple of days, like, but the best I
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: can give it right now is I'm giving it a
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: two for me. And John is going to disown me,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: but don't worry.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to mute his mic.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: No, no, John.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: And we built up.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: To two over the, over this hour of conversation. So
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: she's who this movie is doing, doing nothing for me.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: This did not give Darren his Peter tingle at all. Now, John,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I was going to have you go last, but I
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: think I'm going to I'm going to have you go
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: and then I'm going to ground it in reality. So
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: we're going to have an idiot sandwich. So you go
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: ahead and give us your your total unbiased rating.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: It is very difficult for me not to give this
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: a five because I love it so much. However, however,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: just because I adore a thing does not mean it's
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: a perfect thing. I like things that are imperfect. I
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: like myself. There's a classic example right there. And so overall,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: like I said several times, Darren, I recognize what you're
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: talking about is limitations. And I think that while I
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: don't see a sense of rushing the movie, and I
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: think it's a beautiful movie, and I think the effects are,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: like I said... better than it deserves like it blows
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: my mind how good these effects are like richard edlin
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: should have been carried like on one of those chairs
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: that like has like you know people like with the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: the rods he's like four guys like he should have
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: been carried into the oscars.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: It's like special litter yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Special award for a guy who delivered effects better than
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: even the budget called for he won that award um
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: but you know and i laugh through the whole thing
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: but there are times where the the joke It takes
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: a little too long to get the punchline or it
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: lingers on the punchline or the fight choreography. While it's
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: cool and fun to watch, it's obviously not an action
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: director who's handling it. So it's kind of like that
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: shot could have been you could have trimmed that a
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: little bit better and maybe, you know, had the cut
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: be a little bit. quicker i expect tristan will go
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: crazy on the editing at some point we missed that
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: part this this this episode but i uh i give
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: it a solid four like a solid like i i
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: waver between a four and a four and a half
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: so you know what i'll come in with a four
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: and a half 4.5 because darren hates half stars and
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: this is my way to stick my finger in your
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: eye so it's a four and a half.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Well done that's a that's a good reason as.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Any Ladies and gentlemen, Darren may sound calm, but I'm
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: seeing the video and he's actually raging and throwing things
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in his studio right now.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: It's what I do best, folks.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: He might need to buy another 3D printer. That's how
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: crazy it is.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: I'll print another 3D printer with my printer.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, it's printer inception. Oh no.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: How incestuous. So, okay, so I'm going to ground us
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in reality like I thought I was going to. And...
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: So I knew very little about this movie, almost nothing
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: going into it as I talked about. And I very
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: much enjoyed it. Like the humor worked for me. Kurt
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Russell's performance worked for me. I think there was a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: few times when he was a little stilted, like he
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: just read the script right before he went on screen.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And I feel like there was a lot of really
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: great side characters. I felt Kim Cattrall, I'm a big
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Kim Cattrall fan, real big Kim Cattrall fan, but she
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: also felt a little stilted to me. And I don't understand.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I got a huge eye roll, huge eye roll when
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: they started, when they made them kiss at the end
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: of the, at the end of the climax. And then in,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: in the denouement, she's asking her to like move in
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: with him. Like where on earth did this come from?
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Like it was very much a generic, Oh, the male
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: lead and the female lead are going to, are going
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to boink because they're the male lead and the female lead,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: regardless of chemistry or story. And I felt like that
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: was a huge movie sin right there. Regardless, though, it's
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: just me saying this was a lot of fun. It's
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: a classic for a reason. It deserves to be a classic.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: It deserves to be a cult classic. I will watch
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: this again. Is it my favorite? No, but I will
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: watch it again. I give it a loving 3.5 because
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. But don't roll your eyes
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: at me. That's a very respectable score for a movie
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Four is so close to three and a half. How
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: about this?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I couldn't give it a four, but yet I still
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: like pissing Darren off, so I gave it a three
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and a half.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: You know what? I love that answer.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: I have zero skin in this game.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: That's the answer.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: I do not care at all what you guys rate
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: this movie.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: That's because you replaced all of your skin with 3D
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: printed material.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: He may be smiling, but he's crying.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: But his eyes are dead inside.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Won't you join him for a weep? All right, Darren,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: what are we doing next week? Because it's not Prince
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of Darkness. No, we're still in the 80s though. Don't
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you worry. We're going to be covering 1988's They Live.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Make sure you have your glasses next time on House Lights.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Join the revolution. Join the nerd party.