Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 36. Navigating Publishing in 2025 with Mark Leslie Lefebvre (part 2)

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36. Navigating Publishing in 2025 with Mark Leslie Lefebvre (part 2) · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:07
  Welcome to Show Don't Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori, where I teach you the tried and true secrets to writing fiction, nonfiction, that are going to wow your readers broken down step by step.
• 0:18
  We're going to explore writing techniques.
• 0:21
  I'm going to show you a glimpse behind the scenes of successful writers careers that you wouldn't have access to otherwise, and I'm also going to coach writers live on their pages so that you can learn and transform your own storytelling.
• 0:33
  Whether you're just starting out, you're drafting your first book, you're editing, or you're currently rewriting that book, or maybe even your 10th book, this show is going to help you unlock the writing skills that you didn't even know you needed, but you definitely do.
• 0:48
  I'm I'm so looking forward to helping you get your amazing ideas from your mind onto your pages in an exciting way for both you and your readers so that you can achieve your wildest writing dreams.
• 1:00
  And you're going to also have some fun doing it.
• 1:02
  Let's dive in.
• 1:05
  Welcome to part two of navigating the publishing industry in 2025 with my super special guest, Mark Leslie Lefebvre.
• 1:13
  On Friday, March the 7th, 2025, Mark and I hosted a live event.
• 1:17
  Many of you attended.
• 1:19
  It was super fun.
• 1:20
  Where Mark shared all kinds of industry knowledge on publishing that you are not going to find anywhere else because Mark is a publishing and industry veteran with more than four decades of experience.
• 1:33
  And when I first met Mark over a decade ago now.
• 1:37
  He quickly became one of my favorite people to talk shop with and exchange ideas.
• 1:42
  But he could also always be counted on to create a welcome environment for writers to learn, interact, and create.
• 1:49
  He's been a bookseller.
• 1:51
  He led Kobo's author relations for self publishing.
• 1:54
  And these days he works with Draft2Digital in business development.
• 1:59
  Draft2Digital is one of the world's largest assisted self publishing platforms.
• 2:04
  He knows his stuff.
• 2:05
  So, he's also a prolific author with over 35 books in urban fantasy, horror, and now he writes non fiction books for writers.
• 2:15
  If you haven't listened to part one yet of this event, go listen to it.
• 2:20
  The link will be in the show notes because Mark shares all kinds of information on the publishing industry that you're not going to find anywhere else.
• 2:29
  And part two of this is a live Q& A session that Mark actually answers specific questions for specific writers and you're going to get tons of kernels of information.
• 2:41
  He gives you as much information as possible in this part two episode.
• 2:45
  So enjoy.
• 2:48
  Okay.
• 2:49
  This is awesome.
• 2:50
  We are going to jump into the Q and A here.
• 2:52
  Mark, you ready?
• 2:53
  I am ready.
• 2:55
  Okay.
• 2:56
  Jenny M.
• 2:57
  How do you get out an ebook?
• 2:59
  What are the steps?
• 3:00
  What do I do?
• 3:01
  Okay.
• 3:01
  First you create a free account, Kindle Direct Publishing, Draft2Digital, right?
• 3:06
  One of those two places or both.
• 3:08
  You go in, you load your Word document.
• 3:11
  Yeah.
• 3:11
  It gets converted into an EPUB for free.
• 3:14
  You enter your metadata, like this is what the book's about.
• 3:17
  This is my name, et cetera.
• 3:18
  You upload your cover.
• 3:19
  You've set the price.
• 3:21
  And then you decide, okay, hit the publish button.
• 3:24
  You can see a preview of it for an ebook.
• 3:26
  It's relatively painless and easy.
• 3:28
  And it's as simple as that.
• 3:29
  You don't need an ISBN.
• 3:30
  If you have one, great.
• 3:31
  You can enter it in there, but you can get a free one or you don't need one on Amazon.
• 3:35
  Okay.
• 3:36
  What's an ISBN Mark.
• 3:37
  It is.
• 3:39
  It's like a fingerprint for a book.
• 3:40
  It's called an international standard book number, and every single book has its own unique identifier.
• 3:45
  It's often used at the cash checkout desk, but it's just the way it's like a barcode, right?
• 3:49
  It's the number that's used on a barcode.
• 3:51
  An ebook, a book will have an ebook.
• 3:53
  We'll have an ISBN.
• 3:54
  It'll have a hardcover ISBN.
• 3:55
  I'll trade paperback.
• 3:56
  So any format, any different format is going to have a unique identifying number.
• 4:00
  It's just the way the industry tracks books.
• 4:02
  Yeah.
• 4:02
  And then audio books as well, right?
• 4:05
  Yeah, it's just a format.
• 4:06
  Audiobook is a format.
• 4:07
  So, yeah.
• 4:08
  Just making sure that we're clear on all the facts that people are available to.
• 4:12
  Okay, Jessica T.
• 4:14
  My book, my first book is currently on IngramSpark.
• 4:17
  Not a lot of sales through them yet.
• 4:19
  Does Draft2Digital do a similar thing?
• 4:21
  Like, should I be looking for something different?
• 4:22
  So, uh, I will say IngramSpark for your print book is perfect and beautiful.
• 4:27
  Never use IngramSpark for ebooks.
• 4:30
  So if you're on IngramSpark and you've only done a print book, I would recommend you may want to look at Draft2Digital for ebook.
• 4:38
  Draft2Digital's D2D print is a slightly different way of just getting your book into the Ingram system.
• 4:45
  So if you're already on Ingram, you don't need to use their print, but I would highly recommend you never use Ingram ebook only because with Ingram, you don't get a choice of where you go.
• 4:57
  Like if you use draft to digital, you could go, Oh, I'm going to publish this ebook directly to Amazon.
• 5:01
  And then I'm going to use draft to digital, and I'm not going to select Amazon through draft digital.
• 5:06
  Cause you can choose on an Ingram.
• 5:07
  You can't.
• 5:08
  And, and with print, you can't choose, you have no choice.
• 5:11
  It's just available or not.
• 5:14
  If that makes sense, I hope that helps.
• 5:15
  Yeah, no, that's great.
• 5:16
  I hope that answers your question.
• 5:18
  Jessica.
• 5:18
  Okay, Callie.
• 5:20
  Callie wants to know what font size to use when formatting a romance novel.
• 5:23
  I don't know if you know the answer to that.
• 5:25
  What do you recommend?
• 5:26
  Like, what's the font size usually?
• 5:28
  I usually go, you want to go with an 11 or a 12, but honestly, that's where you're going to want to use.
• 5:32
  If you're on an Apple, I highly, highly recommend Vellum.
• 5:35
  Is a, is a tool you can purchase and it does the formatting for you.
• 5:39
  I highly recommend, oh you're, you're talking about print books of course.
• 5:42
  Draft2Digital print has built in templates that you can use.
• 5:45
  And they'll figure that out for you and make them optimized.
• 5:49
  The challenge is if you make the print too big.
• 5:51
  It makes more pages, and the more pages you have, the more it costs.
• 5:55
  And if you make the print too small, you have less pages, but it's not something you can read.
• 6:00
  So I would highly recommend something like that.
• 6:02
  There's some other online tools if you're not on a Mac.
• 6:05
  Atticus, if you search for Atticus, you can use their formatting tool to make print books in a similar way you would use with Vellum.
• 6:13
  I highly recommend if you don't know what you're doing, either hire a designer or use one of those free templates or tools.
• 6:21
  Yeah, awesome.
• 6:22
  Okay, for indie authors, all the necessary tools are there for us to get ebooks and print out.
• 6:29
  A distribution seems like throw the dice.
• 6:32
  How can people find my book amidst the huge volume of books in our genres if we don't have a public podcast or presence as such?
• 6:40
  Great question.
• 6:41
  Yeah, your books are available.
• 6:43
  They're in the catalogs.
• 6:44
  They're in a digital slush pile near you where anyone can buy them if they, if only they could find them.
• 6:49
  The way that people are often using to get people to find their books is, I mentioned writtenwordmedia.
• 6:56
  com.
• 6:57
  It's a site that I would highly suggest you check out.
• 7:00
  Bookbub is the big one.
• 7:02
  So Bookbub is the Amazon sized version of this type of platform.
• 7:07
  But to get a Bookbub deal where you say, Hey, I'm going to make it 99 cents.
• 7:11
  How much do I have to pay you to get this here?
• 7:13
  It's hard.
• 7:13
  It's almost as hard to get a BookBub deal as it is to get an agent to look at your manuscript.
• 7:18
  But with a site like writtenwordmedia.
• 7:21
  com, it's not going to cost as much and it's relatively easy to book a deal.
• 7:25
  And then what you do is you get new eyeballs from people who've signed up to say, I like to read in this genre and I like to read on this platform.
• 7:33
  And what BookBub or WrittenWordMedia or any of those companies do is they actually send an email.
• 7:39
  And the reason I run promos on my Canadian werewolf Books every few months is, yeah, I'm dealing with the fact that there's all these.
• 7:48
  Distractions and stuff.
• 7:49
  And so then, then I can get, have them send this off to, you know, 150, 000 potential raters and a small percentage of those are going to buy my books.
• 7:57
  You can also potentially look at learning Facebook ads or even Amazon ads or book web ads as well to try to, to run some ads.
• 8:06
  But unfortunately the downside is it's really, really hard.
• 8:10
  To get attention without having to invest a little bit of money in that marketing, but for my, for what it's worth, the written word media.
• 8:17
  com marketing with Bargain Booksy and Free Booksy and stuff like that are among the best cost return for your time, energy and money.
• 8:24
  Those are awesome tips and we're dropping those links all in the notes so that you can all get them as, as Mark talks.
• 8:32
  Okay, so Jessica T also wants to know, can Draft2Digital print in all the formats?
• 8:37
  Example, can it make me a 10 by 10 hardcover?
• 8:40
  Not yet, no.
• 8:41
  Right now they're only doing trade paperback, and they've dumbed the list down to about the six most common trim sizes.
• 8:47
  They will be launching large print later this year, they will be looking at hardcover next, and expanding the trim sizes.
• 8:54
  But right now, as we record this in March, early March of 2025, it's trade paperback, black and white interior only, and there's only the most common trim sizes.
• 9:04
  So Tracy asks, any suggestions on how to find a legit hybrid publisher?
• 9:09
  And I want to just maybe couch this and say, what are the things that are really bad red flags that we need to look for in a publishing contract?
• 9:17
  Honestly, uh, me think the lady doth protest too much is a really, really good one.
• 9:21
  So anyone who has to try to call themselves a publisher, isn't penguin random hose.
• 9:25
  Don't doesn't say we're a real publisher.
• 9:27
  That's a huge red flag when they call themselves a real publisher, when they sell.
• 9:32
  Marketing packages?
• 9:34
  Penguin Random House can't guarantee the books they publish, because only 20 percent of the books they publish actually make them money.
• 9:40
  This was revealed in court a few years ago when they were trying to take over Simon Schuster.
• 9:45
  Most books they publish, they don't even know.
• 9:46
  Yeah, okay, the Lee Child book's gonna make money, the J.
• 9:48
  K.
• 9:49
  Rowling's gonna make money, but they don't know.
• 9:51
  If they don't know, how does paying some loser, and I'm sorry, I said some loser who 10, 000, who's going to guarantee you're a bestseller, so that's another issue.
• 10:01
  Yeah, you can never guarantee that for sure.
• 10:03
  Yeah, there's no guarantee.
• 10:03
  And a lot of those marketing packages are pretty weak.
• 10:06
  They're pretty mean.
• 10:07
  And, and, and, and writer beware is the best place.
• 10:09
  Go and look.
• 10:10
  And if you feel like there's something wrong, trust your gut.
• 10:14
  There probably is something wrong.
• 10:17
  Okay, Luke M.
• 10:18
  I am at the point when I need to start searching for an editor.
• 10:21
  What are the basic questions I need to ask a potential editor before I hire and what is a good budget for this?
• 10:27
  I might take that one.
• 10:29
  Yeah, you can take that one, Mark, or you can take that one.
• 10:31
  No, you go ahead, Susie.
• 10:32
  Yeah, I mean, you really want an editor who is knowledgeable in your genre, that knows your genre cold, that understands yours.
• 10:40
  So you don't want, if you're writing a romance book and somebody is trying to turn it into something else, that's a problem.
• 10:46
  Right?
• 10:46
  And budgeting I would just say, you know, you get what you pay for.
• 10:50
  Editing is a really focused, detailed thing, and it takes a lot of energy.
• 10:54
  It takes a lot of focus.
• 10:55
  If you're not paying, I wouldn't, I mean, I don't price my editing services by the hour because you're paying for my decade of experience and all of the knowledge, not for my hourly time.
• 11:04
  I mean, you can run it through Grammarly if you want to do that.
• 11:07
  So, yeah, so I would, I personally am of the opinion that you spend.
• 11:12
  As much of your budget as you can on that piece, and I think Mark said a similar thing earlier, which is like.
• 11:18
  That's where you need to spend your money.
• 11:20
  That's where you need to make sure that you've got the best product possible.
• 11:23
  How you publish, because it is a choice, right?
• 11:27
  Whether you are publishing independently, like, never think of independently publishing as, Oh, I don't want to put the work in to make it good enough to get to trad, right?
• 11:35
  So I'm just going to put it out there.
• 11:36
  That's the wrong answer, right?
• 11:38
  As a writer, it's too important to not have a great product.
• 11:43
  And one of the only ways to get a great product is working with a really good editor.
• 11:47
  Who aligns with you.
• 11:48
  The other thing is, you may not jive with the editor.
• 11:51
  Just like a relationship.
• 11:52
  It's not that different than dating.
• 11:53
  Like, eh, you know, we had a coffee.
• 11:55
  And that's why most editors will offer, hey, well, I'll do a page.
• 11:58
  So you can kind of get a feel for how they edit, right?
• 12:01
  Like, they usually offer some sort of, okay, try me out.
• 12:04
  So that's another way of seeing if you can jive with an editor who is in your job.
• 12:08
  Definitely.
• 12:08
  And a good editor will tell you if you're not a good fit.
• 12:11
  I certainly refer to other people all the time.
• 12:14
  Um, if I don't feel like I'm going to give them the best.
• 12:16
  Yeah.
• 12:16
  It's like, this is, this is not my thing.
• 12:18
  I'm not the best person.
• 12:19
  Yeah.
• 12:19
  And that, and that's a great sign of anyone that you go to work with.
• 12:23
  I've, I've actually told clients who wanted to hire me.
• 12:24
  I'm like, yeah, I don't think I can help you.
• 12:27
  I don't know how to do Facebook ads.
• 12:29
  I'm not an expert by, by means.
• 12:31
  So don't know that's not something you never want to pay me for is, is working on Facebook ads.
• 12:36
  Right.
• 12:37
  Okay.
• 12:37
  Callie who's here on this event today wants to know, how did you sell your short stories?
• 12:43
  Initially, I sold my short stories by looking at market listings.
• 12:47
  So Angélique Fons has a sub stack.
• 12:49
  She's a Canadian author who puts out twice a month.
• 12:52
  It's like the mostly speculative fiction markets that tell you how much they pay.
• 12:56
  And then you have to learn what the manuscript format is and you send those off.
• 13:01
  How do I sell a short fiction online?
• 13:04
  Like, digitally published, if that's the question?
• 13:06
  It's hard.
• 13:07
  It doesn't sell nearly as well as a novel will.
• 13:11
  But, again, it's for short readers.
• 13:13
  And not short readers, but short reading times.
• 13:16
  You know, in terms of like, Oh, it's only going to take me 20 minutes to read this story.
• 13:19
  So a lot of the stuff I've sold to anthologies that are in full size books, or I've sold to magazines.
• 13:25
  That's how I've made money on the trad side.
• 13:27
  On the other side.
• 13:29
  Again, it's like, Hey, it's only 99 cents.
• 13:31
  And, and maybe I haven't made much money off those from self publishing, but it's just an experiment.
• 13:36
  And it's also with, uh, someone can try my stuff for cheap.
• 13:39
  Or free.
• 13:39
  You can, you can make it free on most platforms.
• 13:41
  And, and I do have free short stories available.
• 13:44
  And if you like my free short story, then maybe you'll buy a book.
• 13:47
  Or maybe you'll buy a story collection.
• 13:49
  Yes.
• 13:50
  Awesome.
• 13:51
  Okay.
• 13:51
  Tammy wants to know, When you self publish, are you allowed to publish that same book on multiple platforms?
• 13:57
  Example.
• 13:58
  Can I publish it on Amazon as well as someplace else?
• 14:01
  Yes, you can.
• 14:02
  Great question, Tammy.
• 14:03
  So, when it comes to the e book, Amazon has an exclusivity option, Kindle Unlimited slash KDP Select, depending on where you're looking, and that means you can't publish.
• 14:14
  If you select that option on Amazon, they're prohibiting you from publishing that book anywhere else, including making it available on your own website.
• 14:22
  So, so long as you're not locked into exclusivity with Amazon, you can then publish it either direct to other platforms or use a distributor, get to the other platforms, and that's known as wide publishing, which I'm a purveyor of because right now there's a, there's a boycott going on on Amazon and a lot of authors I know who are.
• 14:38
  Exclusive to Amazon.
• 14:39
  They're panicking because if you're boycotting Amazon, what happens to my income?
• 14:44
  I'm a, an eggs and basket kind of person.
• 14:47
  And those expensive eggs, I want, don't want to have them all in one basket.
• 14:51
  Right.
• 14:52
  Yes.
• 14:52
  We need another dad joke with the eggs.
• 14:54
  Okay.
• 14:55
  Michelle asks, if you've self published your book with IngramSpark, can you also publish it with D2D to get library exposure?
• 15:02
  So I think this is a similar question.
• 15:04
  So, yeah, so, with IngramSpark, if you're publishing the print book, you do not want to use print on D2D, because Ingram, it's, Ingram is the printer, ultimately, in the back end, and they can't accept the same title.
• 15:17
  But for the e book, yes, for sure, because you can go in with the e book.
• 15:21
  And then say, okay, send this to Overdrive, send this to Biblioteca, send it to Hoopla, send it to Palace Marketplace, all the various library distribution platforms.
• 15:29
  If your book is available in print through IngramSpark, it is available for libraries to purchase, and your local library can order it in.
• 15:37
  And you should let them know that it's available.
• 15:39
  Hi, I'm a local author.
• 15:40
  I'm awesome.
• 15:40
  You should check out this book.
• 15:41
  Here's who it appeals to.
• 15:43
  Awesome.
• 15:44
  Okay.
• 15:45
  So Hallie asks, do you have to pay for Draft2Digital?
• 15:48
  I think you said earlier that you can upload it, but is there a cost to paying for Draft2Digital?
• 15:52
  Draft2Digital does not charge anything upfront.
• 15:54
  That's a great question.
• 15:55
  Draft2Digital is completely free.
• 15:57
  The catch, the catch is they keep 10 percent of the sales.
• 16:02
  Now their motivation, unlike some.
• 16:05
  Pretend publishing platforms who charge you all this money up front.
• 16:08
  Their motivation is to try and make it as easy as possible for you to remove the barriers to publish because they only make money when you sell books.
• 16:15
  And so to get you to the point where you can sell the book as quickly as possible with no cost.
• 16:19
  I mean, and that's how, and that's how they, they've stayed in business for over 12 years now is, is keeping a small percentage of, of the money of the books that sell.
• 16:29
  So that's the catch.
• 16:32
  Awesome.
• 16:32
  Yeah.
• 16:33
  It's a catch, but it's a good one, right?
• 16:34
  Like it's a catch.
• 16:35
  Yeah.
• 16:36
  I mean, if I, if I'm, and then I would say, but if I'm selling a million dollars a year in books and I'm, and DraftDigital is keeping 10%, that's a lot, but.
• 16:43
  At least I could start off, but at least you get to that million dollar mark, right?
• 16:48
  And also at any time you're, you've got to remember when you're using Amazon or draft digital or any of these platforms, you're in control of that IP, that intellectual property.
• 16:56
  You can decide, Oh, I'm not going to use draft digital anymore.
• 16:59
  Unpublished because you're in control and you haven't locked anything away.
• 17:03
  So that's so critical to remember you as the author have the power, power.
• 17:09
  I love it.
• 17:10
  Okay, so this is a good one here to kind of start to wrap up.
• 17:15
  So Jim S.
• 17:16
  wants to know, he says, I'm ready to publish today.
• 17:18
  I have my cover.
• 17:19
  I have the text.
• 17:20
  I have a professional editor.
• 17:22
  It has gone through it, but I need help navigating the system.
• 17:25
  What is my next step?
• 17:26
  Who do I contact?
• 17:27
  What do I, what do I do?
• 17:29
  So, Jim, I'm assuming you mean you want to self publish, or do you want to send that to an editor?
• 17:33
  Yeah, I think he wants to.
• 17:35
  Self publish?
• 17:37
  Yeah, I think he wants to.
• 17:38
  I would, I would join the group, Wide for the Win, and take a look at the Tree of Knowledge, and see what you can find from people who provide information.
• 17:46
  There's plenty of great YouTube videos, if you're a visual learner, on how to publish.
• 17:50
  I know, for example, Draft2Digital has how to publish, and they'll walk you through all the steps.
• 17:54
  I mean, come on, it's like a half hour video that I get bored and I scroll, like, zip through faster.
• 17:59
  I But there's so many resources available as well.
• 18:02
  I do, I do a free consult as well with anyone who wants to, for 20 minutes, we'll, we'll do a zoom chat and half the time I can just walk you through how to set up your Amazon account or how to set up a draft digital account, whatever it is you're looking to do, as long as it's a, we can do it within that 20 minute window, I love to be able to help people just get started because then that maybe saves you some pain and hassle.
• 18:23
  Yeah, Jim, take him up on that, for sure.
• 18:25
  Okay, so Wayne wants to know, do I need to register my copyright?
• 18:29
  How do I do that?
• 18:31
  There's different, I don't think it's necessary to do, and I have never done that.
• 18:37
  I do register my ISBNs with the Library of Canada, which means I send two copies of every print book I make there.
• 18:44
  And maybe that's the same as copyright, and there are some people who say it's worth it, but in the 20 years that I've been self publishing, I have never done that.
• 18:53
  I have put a copyright notice in every single book I've published.
• 18:56
  But I've never registered it with any, uh, organization.
• 18:59
  And legally, your book is copyrighted the moment that you write it.
• 19:03
  It is.
• 19:03
  Technically, it is.
• 19:05
  This little note I just made is copyrighted the minute I put it down on paper, but I guess that's proof, and that's where the copyright But here's the thing, and I'm gonna quote Cory Docter on this.
• 19:16
  Piracy is not my enemy, obscurity is.
• 19:19
  The chances, if some Will somebody steal my bookmark?
• 19:24
  I get that question all the time.
• 19:26
  Honestly, so here's the thing.
• 19:27
  Yes, they will.
• 19:28
  Is that your answer?
• 19:28
  80 million, in which case you probably don't have to worry about it.
• 19:32
  But like, you know what I mean?
• 19:33
  Like, nobody's going to want to steal my book.
• 19:35
  I was so excited.
• 19:36
  I did a book, published a book, Campus Chills, an anthology I edited years ago, and I did it to make available exclusively to Calgary Bookstore and Edmonton Bookstore and Waterloo Bookstore and Hamilton, Ontario Bookstore.
• 19:48
  And we limited it.
• 19:50
  And I found it on a BitTorrent site because somebody bought a copy of the physical book because we wanted people to go to these bookstores to buy it, and they scanned a PDF of it, and they made a PDF and they made it available on BitTorrent.
• 20:00
  I was so happy that someone wanted so badly to steal it.
• 20:03
  Yeah, you were so, like, sought after.
• 20:07
  My first reaction was I made it available as a print on demand so anyone could buy it anywhere because it's easier to buy it than it is to go deal with.
• 20:13
  This hassle of reading this crappy scan.
• 20:16
  I was like, if they want it that bad, let's just make it available.
• 20:18
  So I learned.
• 20:19
  Love that it was that.
• 20:20
  Available more easily and accessible.
• 20:22
  Hey, now they can get it from the library for free.
• 20:24
  So I'm not, uh, I, I, I don't worry about that as much as I worry about accessibility so long as people can get access to my books.
• 20:32
  In a legal way, so I have a few questions for you, Mark, that I think that everybody here at the event needs to know, which is how long did it take you to write your first book.
• 20:45
  I ask this of writers that I meet with all the time because it varies.
• 20:49
  Well, the first book that I published, yeah, 10 years, 10 years.
• 20:55
  Yeah.
• 20:56
  Yeah.
• 20:56
  How long does it take you to write a book?
• 20:58
  Now there's combination, uh, in some cases, 10 years, cause there are still unfinished started.
• 21:04
  Honestly.
• 21:05
  Yeah.
• 21:06
  And, uh, a couple of weeks or more likely a month or two.
• 21:13
  And it depends on the project, right?
• 21:15
  I have whichever place, yeah, whichever place you're on on the spectrum is right.
• 21:20
  Um, it's right for you.
• 21:22
  Great question though, and, and there's no, there's no, it's all over the place in terms of some books take me longer, some books I, I, well, if I have a deadline with a publisher and this has happened, like I do have a deadline with a publisher, I have to get the manuscript at a certain point.
• 21:35
  Chances are the last two weeks is when I'm just going to go nuts and do nothing but write for two weeks.
• 21:41
  Awesome.
• 21:42
  Okay.
• 21:42
  So what was your first big break where you were like, Oh my gosh, I'm an author.
• 21:48
  What was that?
• 21:49
  My first big break was my very first professional sale after making 25, a hundred bucks, whatever.
• 21:54
  So my first break was in 2001.
• 21:57
  Julie Trenate, a Canadian science fiction writer, was editing an anthology for young readers and I sold.
• 22:03
  It was my very first pro sale where I actually got six cents US award.
• 22:08
  Ooh, which was, was pro rates.
• 22:09
  I think it's eight cents now.
• 22:11
  That was my first time where I actually thought, Ooh, I think I might've made it.
• 22:16
  And of course that was 20 some years ago.
• 22:20
  But you're still in, you're doing it.
• 22:22
  And I've continued, I mean, I've had so many great things happen to me over the years where I go, Oh, like I'm a judge of the writers of the future.
• 22:29
  Now they made me a judge last year.
• 22:31
  The first thing I said to them is, do you have any idea who I'm not?
• 22:35
  I mean, I'm not a New York times bestselling author.
• 22:37
  And I, and John, the president of galaxy press said.
• 22:40
  Yeah, but you understand the industry really, really well and you embrace both tread and you support writers and the thing they look for the most in the judges are writers who are willing to want to help other writers.
• 22:52
  And that's what writers of the future is about.
• 22:54
  So it's kind of like, so I get to hang out with these.
• 22:56
  People I grew up reading and I'm a judge with them and I was kind of like how the heck did I get here?
• 23:02
  Because i'm just me And they're them right?
• 23:05
  They're these high high level people.
• 23:06
  So i've been so lucky.
• 23:08
  I've had so many great breaks along the way and the most important thing for you to do as a writer is Don't forget to celebrate every little win, every little achievement.
• 23:19
  You just published a book?
• 23:20
  Oh my god, that is so worth congratulating how much work you put into it.
• 23:24
  You just finished writing a book and you're ready to publish?
• 23:26
  Oh my god, that's so exciting! Or you just sat down and wrote your very first page and you finished a page?
• 23:31
  My god! Please celebrate yourself.
• 23:34
  You would do that.
• 23:35
  If your best friend accomplished that, why won't you do that to yourself?
• 23:39
  When everybody see why Mark and I get along so well and why we love working together, because I couldn't agree with you more, you know, celebrate those wins, support, like lift everybody up, lift yourself up along the way, because your voice and your legacy and getting it out there and, and getting your words out there is so, so important.
• 23:57
  You're feeling called to do it.
• 23:58
  You know, we can talk all day long about the dollars and cents and the.
• 24:02
  The technical things and we'll keep answering those questions for you how to get it out there, but celebrate every piece of that journey.
• 24:09
  It's not easy, but the cool thing about being a writer and being a creative and creating that creative life is that you get to be creative and you get to do it your way and run your own business, right?
• 24:19
  Okay.
• 24:20
  So that was sort of, I mean, I asked, I was going to ask you what your best advice is for writers.
• 24:25
  And I think that, you know, it might be that and it might be something else.
• 24:30
  What's your best advice that you give to writers?
• 24:33
  My best for, you know, my best advice for writers is something that's been near my writing space on a piece of paper since the early nineties, when I graduated university.
• 24:42
  I'm like, I'm going to write full time.
• 24:44
  It took me how long from, from, you know, like 1992 to.
• 24:49
  2017 that I actually was able to leave a full time job because my writing was starting to make enough money.
• 24:54
  So it wasn't overnight.
• 24:55
  It's from Hugh Prather.
• 24:56
  It's a quote that says, If the desire to write is not accompanied by actual writing, then the desire is not to write.
• 25:03
  And it's a reminder to me.
• 25:04
  I actually, uh, writing for me is therapy.
• 25:07
  And sometimes I will write things that will never see the light of day, but they still benefit me because it allowed me to process something.
• 25:14
  You're sharing all the writer's secrets.
• 25:16
  Yeah, totally.
• 25:17
  And some of that, some of that's gonna sell.
• 25:19
  And the other thing too, I would, I would argue is that those thoughts, those feelings, those stories that are resonate with you in your head are there for a reason, because they, they're inspiring you to want to put them on paper.
• 25:32
  And remember when I talked about that intimacy of storytelling when it first started?
• 25:37
  The connection that happens by you taking time and energy and investing in yourself to get that into the world, whether it's through traditional means or through self publishing, you're allowing the opportunity to connect with another human and to allow another human to be seen, felt, and heard.
• 25:55
  And it's the most fundamental things we can do as humans.
• 25:58
  So you as a writer are so important.
• 26:00
  Don't give up.
• 26:01
  Don't give up on that thing that's resonating with you.
• 26:04
  It'll probably resonate with someone else too.
• 26:07
  Even if it's only a handful of people, you've made the world a better place.
• 26:11
  Yeah, thank you so much for that, Mark.
• 26:12
  Okay, so you support writers all over the world with their publishing journey.
• 26:18
  Can you tell us a little bit about your services, where we can find you?
• 26:21
  You mentioned your, you mentioned your consultations.
• 26:24
  Like, how does that work?
• 26:25
  How do we find you?
• 26:27
  So, if you go to marklesley.
• 26:29
  ca, see, nobody has to spell my last name, marklesley.
• 26:32
  ca.
• 26:33
  Just drop it.
• 26:33
  You can find links to the books I have available for writers.
• 26:37
  You can find links to the Stark Reflections on Writing and Publishing podcast, weekly podcast.
• 26:41
  Episode 405 just came out yesterday.
• 26:47
  And it's about, it's from a forthcoming book.
• 26:49
  It's an excerpt.
• 26:50
  I just read an excerpt from a forthcoming book that I'm working on right now about the importance of the relationship with a bookstore, like as a, whether you're self published or tried to publish.
• 26:58
  So it could be some value there for you.
• 27:00
  That's free, completely 100%.
• 27:03
  My consulting, I will talk to anyone for 20 minutes for completely for free.
• 27:07
  Marklessy.
• 27:08
  ca just go to consulting.
• 27:09
  You'll see the link.
• 27:10
  You'll see the things.
• 27:11
  I don't.
• 27:11
  Try to promise you that I'm not good at I'm not going to help you with editing.
• 27:15
  I'm not going to read your book and critique it for you, but I am going to talk with you and brainstorm and share as much as I can.
• 27:22
  And I'm not going to say, oh, in 20 minutes, I'm not going to tell you this.
• 27:26
  I'm not going to say, no, it's behind a paywall.
• 27:27
  If I can help you in 20 minutes, and I've helped thousands of authors this way, I will help you in 20 minutes and I maybe saved you some hassle.
• 27:34
  He will.
• 27:34
  He's so legit, you guys.
• 27:35
  I do offer my consulting, I think it's 149 per hour, and that's U.
• 27:40
  S.
• 27:41
  for a full hour.
• 27:42
  So you could get an hour and a half.
• 27:43
  Worth every penny.
• 27:44
  Right.
• 27:44
  Think about that hour and a half for that same price, just because you try out the free.
• 27:47
  And then, but again, if you don't like my style, then great.
• 27:51
  You're like, yeah, not my cup of tea.
• 27:52
  Oh, if you, I know you're not watching all the comments here.
• 27:54
  I think they like your style.
• 27:56
  We've had such a good time talking about all the things today.
• 27:59
  Definitely, definitely.
• 28:01
  Go and check out Mark's podcast services.
• 28:04
  When you're ready to publish, if you're kind of feeling lost and floundering, he's the guy.
• 28:09
  So go and ask your specific questions.
• 28:11
  Thanks so much for coming on today.
• 28:13
  And thank you all for being with us today, asking your terrific questions.
• 28:17
  I want to wish you all the best on your publishing journeys.
• 28:20
  Bye.
• 28:28
  Thanks for tuning in to Show Don't Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori.
• 28:32
  I'll be continuing to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or planning to write.
• 28:37
  Please consider subscribing to this podcast and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you're listening.
• 28:44
  Also, visit suzybedore.
• 28:45
  com forward slash newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about upcoming training, events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 28:59
  If you're feeling brave, check the show notes and send us a page of your writing that isn't quite where you want it to be yet for our show don't tell page review episodes.
• 29:08
  Remember that book and your writing is going to open doors that you haven't even thought of.
• 29:14
  And I can't wait to help make it the absolute best.
• 29:17
  If you're feeling called to write that book, keep going and I'm going to be right here cheering you on.
• 29:24
  See you again next week.