Latest / What's on Your Riste? A Watch Podcast / S01E11: So Your Friend Wants a Rolex

Transcript

S01E11: So Your Friend Wants a Rolex · What's on Your Riste? A Watch Podcast

0:00
I'm going to start this episode with a confession that some of
0:03
you have been waiting to hear me make.
0:05
I have owned Rolex more than one over the years, and I sold every
0:13
one of them. Or I guess some of them were
0:15
stolen, but I've sold the other ones as well.
0:19
Now, before any of you grab the pitchforks and get the
0:23
impression in your head that this is the Rolex is Bad
0:26
episode, it's not I'm I'm not here to do the tired watch
0:30
Internet thing where someone bashes the most successful watch
0:35
brand in history to sound interesting at a dinner party.
0:38
I I'm not that guy. The watches were great, all of
0:43
them. Like, I respect the brand
0:44
enormously. But the story of why I sold
0:48
them, the actual honest retrospective story, is the one
0:52
I've been waiting 11 episodes to tell, because I think it
0:58
explains something that almost every enthusiast in this hobby
1:01
eventually has to figure out for themselves.
1:04
And the vehicle for telling that story is a question your friend
1:10
is going to ask you sooner or later.
1:13
Or, like me, you've probably already gotten the question.
1:15
They're going to say something like, I'm thinking about getting
1:19
a Rolex. What do you think?
1:22
Today we're going to talk about how to be a good friend to that
1:25
person, and along the way I'm going to tell you honestly what
1:29
happened with mine. What's on your wrist?
1:46
All right, welcome back to What's on Your Rest Day?
1:48
I'm Wojovsky. Last episode was the Philosophy
1:51
1 Hadonia eudaimonia, and the response to it has been
1:54
incredible. I had no idea that we had
1:58
listeners outside of the States. I was just assuming there was a
2:01
couple of handful of folks that were my friends and inner circle
2:04
folks that were listening. And all of a sudden I'm getting
2:06
messages from from Will one from Youtubers that I really respect
2:10
in the watch space. So thank you to them and thanks
2:14
to the folks in it's crazy in Japan and Belgium in the UK that
2:19
are listening in Ireland. I just, I am dumbfounded by the
2:24
fact that people are, are taking to this.
2:27
So I just just know that I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm humbled, I am
2:31
honored and I will do my best to continue to do to do the
2:34
homework to make these insightful and enjoyable for
2:37
you. So now, if you haven't listened
2:39
to the Hedonia and Eudaimonia episodes, that which was episode
2:42
10, that much as it's going to hurt me, stop listening here, Go
2:46
back and listen to that episode and then come back and join us
2:48
for this one. OK, because I want us to be on
2:50
the same page. There's a ton of foundational
2:53
information that's going to happen in that episode that will
2:55
be the the layers for this episode.
2:58
Today we're going to be applying the framework to, I would say
3:01
the most loaded conversation in the entire hobby.
3:04
So settle in and we're going to talk about Rolex and we're going
3:08
to talk about it honestly. All right, first segment #1
3:13
let's be honest about Rolex. Before I tell you a single word
3:17
about my own Rolex journey, I want to do something the watch
3:21
Internet almost never does anymore.
3:24
Want to be honest about Rolex? This is going to sound crazy.
3:28
You're probably not used to hearing it.
3:30
Rolex makes spectacular watches, full stop.
3:34
Case finishing is industry leading.
3:36
The bracelets, especially the modern ones with the glide lock
3:40
and the easy link, are some of the best on the market.
3:44
And think about it. When was the last time someone
3:46
told you that the ceramic ball bearings on their flip clasp
3:52
broke down or wore out? You never hear those stories,
3:55
right? You hear the ones that, oh, I've
3:57
had it for 10 years. Do you think I need a service?
3:59
And they put on a time graph when it's running at +1, +2,
4:02
right? The in house movements, they're
4:04
accurate, they're durable, they're magnetically resistant,
4:06
they're easily serviced and they're quietly excellent.
4:11
And typically they're thin for 300m divers.
4:15
Their water resistance ratings, if I'm going to go down that
4:18
rabbit hole, their ratings are real.
4:20
They test their watches and honestly, they are conservative
4:24
in their testing, meaning that a submariner, A submariner, if
4:26
it's rated to 300 meters in practice, it's going to handle
4:29
way deeper than that. The oyster steel that they use
4:33
is outstanding. It's it takes a great Polish,
4:37
it's comfortable on the skin, it's finished well.
4:40
And the build. Quality across their entire line
4:42
up, not just, you know, their dive watches is consistently
4:45
world class. And it's in a way that almost no
4:48
manufacturer can do this at this scale.
4:51
And if you talk to other manufacturers, they will tell
4:53
you that we cannot do what Rolex does.
4:56
And the brand recognition, that's not a bug.
4:58
That's that's a feature of Rolex.
5:00
So if you, if you wear your Rolex to your in laws house,
5:04
your, you know, your father in law's house, they know what it
5:07
is, they'll smile and they get it.
5:10
And the, and there's this entire intergenerational cultural
5:15
fluency around Rolex that no other watch brand on earth has
5:18
built. There's no way that's going to
5:20
be rebuilt by another brand. So that fluency is real.
5:24
It's not vapor, it's not marketing fluff.
5:26
It is the result of more than 100 years of consistent design
5:31
language, consistent quality, consistent positioning.
5:34
And you can't fake that. And honestly, people can't match
5:37
it. And so when someone says that
5:39
they want a Rolex, and I want every listener to hear this,
5:42
they're not wrong. They're responding to something
5:46
real. The watches are great.
5:48
The recognition is great. The brand has earned its place
5:52
at the center of horology, even if some of us in the hobby have,
5:56
for our own reasons, moved on from them.
5:59
And that's my honest baseline. So now let me tell you the rest
6:02
of the story. Segment 2, I'm going to call my
6:04
Rolexes and why I sold them. So here is briefly my Rolex
6:09
history. And I won't tell you which ones
6:11
were sold and which ones were stolen, but just know that even
6:14
the ones that were stolen were on chopping blocks in my own
6:18
head. Someone just kind of accelerated
6:20
that process. See, when I'm healing, I can, I
6:24
can, I can have some fun about this kind of stuff, right?
6:27
And the watches, I think I'm going to talk about that.
6:29
I'm going to mention, you know, I no longer own them, obviously.
6:32
They're sold, obviously, or taken.
6:36
And each of them was kind of this objective measure, I think
6:39
of an excellent purchase and each of them eventually left.
6:42
So it's like, well, these were awesome watches.
6:44
They were excellent purchases. I thought I.
6:47
Got good examples of all of them and then I sold them or got rid
6:51
of them, right? So the first example I want to
6:53
talk about is the 14 O 6 OM so that you're going to see the one
6:57
four O 6 OM. It's a no date sub.
7:00
It's a four liner. It's classic.
7:02
It's that watch that you know 100 forum threads and 1000
7:07
YouTube videos talk about. It's the Submariner because it
7:11
has the proportions of the older models.
7:13
It has this aluminum bezel, and it's simple.
7:15
It has a utilitarian subdial. It's the Submariner that serious
7:21
watch people are supposed to want, and it is, without
7:23
exaggeration, one of the best dive watches ever made.
7:26
I loved it, genuinely. I loved that watch.
7:30
And then I sold it. And the second was a 16600 sea
7:36
dweller. Sea dweller.
7:38
It was produced from 1989 to about 2008.
7:41
And it went on this epic 20 year run.
7:45
And then quietly it became 1 of Rolex's most respected
7:49
professional divers. And this is crazy.
7:51
It was 40mm and it didn't have a Cyclops, but it did have a date.
7:56
So when you look at it kind of from afar, just looks like a
7:59
typical Submariner, right? Sat a little bit taller, had a
8:02
little bit more wrist presence, but again, no Cyclops.
8:06
And it had more of a matte dial, had a flat top crystal, had a
8:11
far deeper water resistance rating than the Submariner.
8:13
And so the Sea Dweller for that, that entire generation of
8:17
collectors who came up with that, they loved that watch.
8:22
And then it got modernized by the the 116600.
8:27
It's kind of the more modern Sea Dweller version again, still
8:30
40mm. And that line was in 2014.
8:33
And that Sea Dweller again is for me one of the ones that's
8:37
kind of on my trajectory of watches that just kind of they,
8:41
they just haunt me. I just, there's something about
8:43
that watch that I just, it's, it just seems outstanding, OK.
8:48
And so again we talked about this, this clean version that I
8:51
had of this 16600, it became sought after.
8:55
And again, even though the the newer 116600, the more updated
9:00
version before they went to the the kind of bigger cases of 43mm
9:03
and 44mm and so on, they had it in a 40mm, but they had updated
9:09
the bezel. And so you got a ceramic bezel
9:12
and you had this updated bracelet, which was, which was
9:14
great. Now for most folks, they do like
9:17
the, again, people like me, like the aluminum bezels.
9:20
We like the fading in the patina and all that kind of stuff.
9:23
But if I'm underwater, I get a legible bezel.
9:26
And so again, I lean towards the ceramic in that case.
9:29
Again, we, we, we like what we like, right?
9:32
And so with the to go back to the 16600 that I had it, it's,
9:37
again, it's become more sought after.
9:39
The case profile I think is more pure and it has this more
9:42
vintage correct kind of these this modern feel that you might
9:46
have in some of the newer ones. I like the vintage feel.
9:48
I had added a steel reef comfort link extension to mine and think
9:53
of that as kind of this similar to what the Oyster Perpetuals
9:57
have. Just a little flip out, couple
10:00
of millimeters just give you a little break when you're outside
10:02
with the kids on the swings and it's, you know, 100 outside
10:05
again. So it's just a little
10:06
aftermarket on a family micro adjustment system.
10:08
I incur I I really recommend those.
10:10
Those are, those are great. They're a little bit pricey, but
10:12
steel reef stuff is, is solidly built and it fits usually fits
10:17
really well with the, the models that they say that they're going
10:20
to fit. So again, that 16600 I loved it,
10:24
genuinely like I loved it and I sold it.
10:27
And so the pattern didn't stop with Rolex.
10:29
This is weird too. So I went down this other rabbit
10:32
hole with a pair of vintage, I would say, well, we'll say neo
10:36
vintage because I think that hurts some people's feelings
10:37
when I was talking about the 90s, but vintage Omegas, and I
10:42
love those as well. And then guess what?
10:43
They also got sold. And I think the more I think
10:45
about it, the more I realize that they belong in this same
10:48
conversation. Even though this is a Rolex
10:50
chat, The Omegas I'm going to talk about just for a second
10:53
though, the Omega Seamaster Professional Reference 2254.50.
10:58
They call them the 2250 Fours. They're the enthusiasts the, the
11:03
community loves to call this the Peter Blake 41 millimeter is a
11:07
black wave dial. It had sword hands.
11:09
Those sword hands. I love, I love love, love those
11:12
sword hands. In fact, I, I actually created a
11:14
song about bringing back the 2254, which I'll, I'll, I'll
11:17
swing in sometime. The caliber 11/20 was inside of
11:20
there wasn't basically an ETA2892-A2 bass.
11:24
It was reworked by Omega. It sat thin.
11:27
The watch was thin. It was comfortable and it was,
11:30
it was named in tribute to Peter Blake, actually Sir Peter Blake.
11:34
He was a New Zealand yachtsman and an environmentalist who was
11:38
tragically killed in the Amazon in 2001 and.
11:43
To. Watch with one of the most
11:44
respected backstories in modern Omega history.
11:47
And so again, I love that watch and I sold it.
11:51
And then I owned a reference 226465.
11:56
I had. I had the.
11:58
I had what we call in my my little texting circle, the
12:01
purple Blake. It's basically the electric blue
12:04
version of the 2254. I had bezels that I could swap
12:08
out with it. I had a ghosted bezel that was
12:10
just wonderful. And so it's kind of the sibling
12:12
of the 2254 again, a little bit different.
12:16
And I love that watch. It was unique.
12:19
It was cool. I thought it had an awesome just
12:23
wild blue dial and then this awesome bezel and I could swap
12:27
it out with other bezels. So I love that watch and then I
12:30
sold it too. Something's wrong with me,
12:32
right? So now when I list these 4
12:34
watches in a row, the fourteen O 6 OM the sub, the 16600 sea
12:40
dweller, the Peter Blake, you know the then Peter Blake's, you
12:43
know purple brother, right? When you look at these on paper,
12:46
it's kind of like a brilliant a little mini dive collection.
12:51
Like. Vintage Neo, vintage Swiss
12:53
icons, reliable, easily serviced, well respected, under
12:56
the radar. You know what, the right people
12:57
would know them. But if not, they just look like
12:59
regular watches. So none of them are bad picks,
13:02
None of them are even questionable picks by like
13:05
literally every objective metric the watch Internet would use to
13:09
grade a collection. These 4 watches are correct.
13:13
And I got rid of them and it took me years to figure out why.
13:18
Segment 3, I'm going to call the Revelation.
13:21
Now, every one of those watches was prescribed to me, not by a
13:26
doctor, not by a salesman, by the watch community.
13:30
Now listen, when you start in this hobby, you do what any
13:35
reasonable person does. You.
13:38
Go look for the people who know more than you.
13:41
You read the forums, you watch the Youtubers.
13:44
You ask a friend who's been collecting for a long time.
13:47
Maybe you listen to some YouTube with a weird name, right?
13:51
Or a podcaster with an even crazier name.
13:54
And all of those people, very kind, share with you the watches
13:58
that have, over their years of wearing, become their meaningful
14:02
pieces. Their.
14:04
Bedrock references the watches that, for them, deserve to be
14:08
the center of a serious collection.
14:10
And so here's the trap. It's their meaningful pieces,
14:15
not yours. Each of the four watches that I
14:18
mentioned came across came into my collection because someone
14:21
else told me that they were the right pieces for me.
14:23
The vintage fourteen O 6 OM because the smart sub is it has
14:28
an aluminum bezel because that has a 2 or a four line dial
14:31
depending on the 1 you you wanted.
14:32
It was the connoisseur's choice. The 16600 because that's the
14:37
purest sea dweller, the last of the classic case before Rolex
14:41
modernized the line right 20 year production behind it.
14:45
The watch the older guys in the hobby will tell you that is the
14:48
sea dweller bro and then you get the Peter Blake seamasters
14:54
because they're thinking you know this is the collector's
14:57
alternative to the bond sub right?
14:59
Slim case sword hands, a tool watch heart with a quietly
15:03
meaningful back story. Each of those frames was true
15:06
for each of those watches by, again, every external metric,
15:10
it's the right pick. And I wore each of them for a
15:13
while and I waited for the meaning to arrive and the
15:17
meaning never arrived. It never did.
15:20
And it's not because those watches were bad.
15:22
Those watches are great. They are fantastic.
15:25
And if you're looking down at your watch right now and it's
15:27
one of those watches, again, part of me is still a little bit
15:30
jealous because they are fantastic watches.
15:33
But. Again, the watches weren't bad,
15:36
they were great, but the meaning was somebody else's.
15:41
Someone else had built up the meaning of those watches to me,
15:44
and that meaning lived in their lives, not in mine.
15:48
And when I wore the fourteen O 6 OM the sub, I was wearing
15:55
another person's eudaimonia, if that makes any sense.
15:59
And the reference is great. The story behind why some
16:01
collectors deeply love that exact reference is fantastic.
16:05
But the. Why or the story behind why I
16:09
should love it? That part was secondhand.
16:12
It was borrowed and borrowed meaning in this hobby does not
16:16
stick. And if you turn watches that you
16:19
are absolutely enamored with and you roll over them pretty
16:22
quickly and cycle through them, it might be because you're
16:25
chasing something like I was. So that, by the way, is I think
16:28
the trap that I had named in episode 10.
16:31
This is the third trap, right? It's mistaking someone else's
16:35
eudaimonia. For your.
16:37
Own and now it looks like a serious collection.
16:39
It checks every box. It would pass any watch nerds
16:43
test so you could throw at it. And the entire time the wearer
16:47
right re stay quietly, sometimes unconsciously wondering why this
16:54
watch doesn't feel like it's theirs.
16:57
And that's what happened with mine.
16:58
And so I sold them and or I had plans on selling them right.
17:02
They were on the chopping block, as we call it.
17:05
Not. Because they're bad watches.
17:06
Because I was finally honest enough eventually to admit that
17:12
they were on my wrist. Because other people had told me
17:15
that that that's where they should be.
17:17
And I think life's way too short to be wearing other people's
17:20
watches now. Segment 4, the two Rolex Grails
17:25
I respect from a distance. Now this part I'm going to throw
17:28
in there just as kind of a curveball, and I want to be very
17:31
clear about something. The fact that I sold those
17:33
Rolexes doesn't mean that the brand stopped speaking to me.
17:37
It absolutely did not. There are in particular 2
17:40
references that I have immense respect for.
17:43
Watches that I've looked at from a distance for years.
17:46
Watches that in certain corners of the collector's world are
17:49
spoken with like genuine reverence and I want to give
17:53
them their kind of shout out as well.
17:55
And I kind of teased one of them, but I'm going to throw in
17:57
a curveball as well. So the first one's going to be
17:59
the 16710. The GMT Master 2 has a Pepsi
18:03
bezel. It's aluminum, it's pre ceramic,
18:06
it's pre jubilee only bracelets, right?
18:09
It's the only one, or it's the one with the matte aluminum
18:14
insert, the one that fades, that ghosts, that develops this
18:18
character with age that ceramics simply cannot.
18:21
And so for me, the 16710 is in kind of the right circles.
18:25
One of the most beloved Rolex references ever made, the travel
18:29
watch with real credentials, the.
18:32
Proportions are perfect. The patina.
18:34
On a well aged 16710 that kind of gets washed out a little bit
18:38
or slightly oxidized. This kind of red and blue.
18:40
I think it's one of the most beautiful aging effects of any
18:44
Rolex of all time. And I've admired the 16710 for
18:49
years. So I get why people love it.
18:50
And guess what? I I genuinely get it.
18:52
And the the second was that 116600 this the seed dweller and
18:59
I talked about it a little bit before, but the idea of having a
19:02
more modernized seed dweller with even, you know, more
19:06
capability, the on the fly adjustments, the ceramic bezel,
19:10
but still also not having a Cyclops, I think, I think was
19:13
just and it's a quirky watch. It's just remarkable.
19:17
And then these the small one that I didn't mention and I
19:20
haven't mentioned, but that I have had in the past that that
19:25
didn't make it was the 116034. It was an OP as an oyster
19:31
perpetual 36mm. It was a blue dialed oyster
19:35
perpetual, but it had a dial layout similar to an explorer.
19:38
So I had a 369 dial, but it was blue.
19:41
And honestly that watch was spectacular in pictures.
19:47
The Explorer. I think for many collectors,
19:49
this kind of stripped down pure, very much an Everest looking
19:53
watch from like the 50s time only no date, no kind of bezel
19:57
theatrics. And it was just kind of a
20:00
perfect watch. And it was different enough for
20:02
me from the Explorer. And I love, I love the 36mm
20:07
Explorer in black. I think that's a spectacular
20:10
watch. I love the idea of having a blue
20:13
dialed. Rolex.
20:15
I thought that was an awesome thing.
20:17
And so when I got to see this watch and I got to put it on my
20:21
wrist, the only thing that I could find that was wrong with
20:24
it was that it just felt too small for me.
20:26
And my wrist will go from 7:00 and 6:45 and a half inches.
20:30
And so that was for me kind of a tough time to be able to go.
20:34
I really like this watch, but it just wears too small.
20:37
It's like I'm, I'm overpowering the watch.
20:40
And so, and then there's other ones down the rabbit hole, a
20:43
39mm pure white Oyster Perpetual with no date, no, no craziness.
20:48
Those watches I think are stunning.
20:49
So when they had the 39 millimeters, those were
20:51
outstanding as well. And I just, there's a, there's a
20:54
lot of references that we could go down a hole rabbit hole that
20:56
so and again, neither of those examples and none of those
21:01
examples are really in my collection now, so.
21:04
What? I'll tell you something.
21:05
Is is something interesting and I want you to kind of take this
21:07
seriously. The 16710, the, the 116 O 34,
21:13
the 36mm Oyster Perpetual, the 116600 Seed Dweller.
21:20
They're, they're watches that I have not owned or haven't sold
21:24
or haven't cycled through and they haven't entered my
21:26
collection or been quietly disposed of, which means that I
21:29
find this fascinating as I look back at my patterns because
21:34
these are watches that I admire for having survived these tests
21:38
of years. And I think that's, that's part
21:40
of the tell for us is if we want to watch and if we want it for a
21:44
decade, is it, is that a watch that you're going to get?
21:47
If you wanted to watch for a decade, is that something that
21:49
will come into your collection and then you'll keep or will it
21:52
go away? And I think sometimes when I've
21:53
wanted to watch for 5-10 years and I get them.
21:57
Sometimes they meet or exceed expectations and other times
21:59
it's like you, you've, you know, don't meet your idols, right?
22:03
And so I think that's fascinating as well.
22:05
And so again, these, these Rolexes have, you know, that I
22:08
bought, I think they were, if I'm being honest, they were
22:13
Rolexes that I bought because someone told me to and then I
22:16
sold them. And the Rolex is that I admire
22:18
from the outside, from a buying decision.
22:21
I still might admire them, but I haven't pulled the trigger.
22:24
And there's this relationship I have with those references.
22:27
It's it's complicated and it's uncomplicated by ownership and
22:30
lack of ownership. And maybe that says something
22:34
about the differences between wanting a watch and wanting to
22:36
own a watch. And I don't think that those are
22:39
the same thing. So this hobby will eventually
22:42
teach you that distinction. And sometimes it can be very
22:45
expensive lessons that we're going to learn.
22:48
And sometimes it just takes a few sales I think to kind of get
22:51
there. So let's.
22:52
Get into why I think I've laid all of this foundation to get to
22:55
the question of this entire episode.
22:59
Segment 5. So your friend wants a Rolex.
23:02
All right, OK, so now let's get into this scenario.
23:05
Your friend pulls you aside. They've been thinking about it.
23:08
They want to buy a Rolex. I want to set up a particular
23:10
kind of friend here because the advice I think changes depending
23:15
on who they are. And apologies in advance to if
23:17
you hear my voice starting to get raspy.
23:19
This is the third time I've recorded this episode.
23:22
I've had tons of issues with rendering and then errors and
23:25
then things getting deleted. So if you hear me falling apart,
23:27
my voice, I'm doing my best here.
23:30
So let's talk about that. So when we talk about the the
23:33
advice kind of changing depending on who your friend is,
23:37
the friend I want you to picture is someone who has thought about
23:40
this. They have not walked up to you
23:44
saying that's a nice watch. And then hey, I would like a
23:49
nice watch. There's something different.
23:51
They're specifically walking up to you and they're saying
23:54
something along the lines of, Hey, I want to Rolex, and maybe
23:58
they've wanted one since their dad wore one.
24:00
Maybe they had a milestone like a promotion or a birthday.
24:04
Maybe they had a son or a daughter born.
24:06
Maybe they're a grandparent now. Maybe they sold a business.
24:10
Whatever it is, right? Maybe they've been quietly
24:13
admiring this brand for 15 years now and they are ready.
24:17
So the point is, they know what they want.
24:20
The Rolex is not a placeholder for a fancy watch in their their
24:24
mind. It's, it's specifically the
24:26
watch that they want. And so here's the most important
24:28
advice I'm going to give to you on this entire podcast.
24:32
Help. Them get it.
24:35
That's it. The whole segment.
24:37
Help them get the watch that they want.
24:40
Help them find a good AD. Help them avoid Gray market
24:45
markups if they can, if they're not in a hurry.
24:47
Or put them. In contact with someone that you
24:49
trust in that space. Help them with sizing when the
24:52
time comes. Help them figure out how to
24:54
adjust their bracelet when the time comes.
24:56
If they need that. Help them think about and think
25:00
through the references within the entire Rolex catalog that
25:03
actually matches with their life.
25:06
Don't get them something that they may not need, or encourage
25:09
them to get something that's outside the scope of what
25:11
they're excited about. Help them prepare for an AD
25:15
conversation. Help them get on the right list
25:19
with the right boutique for the right piece.
25:21
Now I'm, I'm, I'm begging you here.
25:23
Do not again, I'm begging you. Do not be the friend who, the
25:28
moment they say I want to, Rolex starts pitching them on another
25:32
brand. Don't do that.
25:34
Don't be. The friend who lectures them
25:36
about independent watchmaking. And again, you're hearing this
25:38
from a dude who loves independent watchmaking.
25:41
OK, so I see the contradictions here.
25:44
Don't be that guy. Don't be that girl.
25:47
Don't be the friend who tries to redirect them into Grand Seiko
25:50
because of the finishing is better dollar for dollar.
25:52
Or don't be the friend that whispers, Hey, have you heard of
25:55
Chopic? Or check out this dude's podcast
25:58
when he's talking about Dorm Bluth, right?
26:01
Don't put that in their ear as they're trying to figure out
26:03
what size, you know, sub they're going to get and which which
26:07
model they're they're looking at.
26:08
And again, I love those alternative brands.
26:11
I love the independent brands. We've done full episodes on a
26:14
couple of them already. They are spectacular.
26:18
But they're. Not what your friend is asking
26:20
for. When your friend says I want a
26:22
Rolex and they mean it, they're not asking you for a referral to
26:27
a different brand, they're asking you to help them get one.
26:31
Anything else is you projecting your own taste onto somebody
26:34
else's journey. And that's their journey to
26:37
take. It's not yours.
26:39
I'm going to tell you exactly what I think the trap is here
26:42
because I've seen a good watch friend turn into this kind of
26:47
bad watch friend. You can still be a good person
26:49
and a good friend, but good watch friends are harder to
26:52
find. The trap is thinking that
26:55
because you've moved on past Rolex in your own collecting
26:59
journey, you're doing your friend a favor a solid by saving
27:03
them from it. You're not saving them.
27:06
I'll make the argument here, and it's going to be contradictory
27:09
to a lot of people's thought process of who I am.
27:11
I'm going to make the argument that you are robbing them of
27:14
something. You're robbing them of their own
27:17
first Rolex experience. The walk into the boutique, the
27:20
phone call from the AD, the unboxing, the afternoon that
27:24
they're going to spend with that watch on their wrist, staring at
27:29
it, taking pictures and not believing that it's actually
27:32
theirs. Those moments belong to them.
27:35
There's. Some of the most magical moments
27:37
in this hobby and they have very few moments that we get in this
27:41
space that are kind of like that.
27:42
And I, I kind of laugh because I know you kind of get to feel
27:46
what this is going to feel like for them.
27:48
And so again, the people that go up on, you know, Reddit or
27:53
wherever and they go and post their wrist shots and they're
27:56
excited and. It's the first time that they've
27:57
done this stuff, and then the entire.
27:59
You know, watch community, there's like a split.
28:01
It's like half of them are so excited for them and the other
28:03
half are just crapping on their decisions, right?
28:06
And it's, it's just a reminder of of the space and what people
28:10
are doing in this space. And so just remember that that
28:13
watch is yours for you. Their watch is going to be
28:16
theirs. So those magical moments in this
28:18
hobby, those few and rare ones that we get, don't take them
28:21
away from people. Again, those moments are are
28:25
theirs. And so just because we or you
28:28
have decided in retrospect that Rolex wasn't your endpoint,
28:32
doesn't mean that it's not going to be theirs.
28:34
And you might be in this podcast listening going.
28:36
I love Rolex and I respect the fact that Reese Day respects
28:40
them as well. And even though he doesn't own
28:42
any right now, maybe he will in the future, right?
28:45
And so I understand that you and I are maybe in different places
28:48
and that's cool, like in the fact that you might have a Rolex
28:50
on your wrist, maybe you have a 36mm Explorer and you're like,
28:54
this watch makes me so freaking happy.
28:57
I want to I want to celebrate that with you.
28:59
There's. There's no, there's no animosity
29:02
there. There's nothing.
29:03
Those are spectacular watches. And if I could pull off a 36mm
29:07
Explorer, you know, dollars to Donuts, I'm going to be, I'm
29:10
going to be rocking a 36mm just for me.
29:12
They just wear a touch too small.
29:15
And so now if again, if Rolex is going to be your friend's first
29:20
proper mechanical watch. Or even their only proper
29:23
mechanical watch. It is, I think, in my opinion,
29:26
the exact right answer. The recognition, the durability,
29:30
the resale stability, the cultural fluency, all of those
29:33
check boxes that you're going to get when you listen to the
29:36
Youtubers, right the story. Of owning 1.
29:40
All of it Rolex is for that very specific person at that specific
29:43
moment in time. It's the right answer.
29:45
So again, help them get it now. Segment 6, I'm going to give you
29:50
a brief second scenario just because again, I as a, my career
29:55
is it's foundational in asking questions and taking positions
30:00
that I don't necessarily agree with sometimes to get people to
30:03
think more critically and so. Let's.
30:05
Talk about this. So the brief second scenario now
30:09
quickly. Because I want.
30:10
This episode, to kind of stay focused, I'm going to detour
30:13
just a little bit. I'm going to, you know, just go
30:15
outside the lane a little bit. I'm going to come right back in.
30:17
I think there's a second type of friend out there, the friend who
30:21
you know, might say. I want.
30:23
To Rolex, but is when you actually dig in a little bit in
30:27
the conversation. They're using Rolex kind of as a
30:29
generic synonym for a nice watch.
30:32
And. So they don't have a specific
30:34
reference in mind. They haven't done the research.
30:36
They're just thinking Rolex because in a large world, Rolex
30:39
has come to mean good watch. And So what you're translating
30:41
that and what they're trying to say is?
30:43
I want a good watch and for that friend a slightly different
30:48
conversation I would say is warranted.
30:50
Not a redirect, just a conversation.
30:53
What do they like? What would they actually wear?
30:58
What life do they live now? Remember, as people move through
31:01
their lives, their lives and their watches change.
31:05
We have different seasons, we have different chapters that we
31:08
go through, right? And so then what you can do is
31:12
present them, you know, their Rolex options along with
31:15
possibly one or two thoughtful alternatives that match what
31:18
you've learned about them. And then let them decide with
31:21
that information, not with a default, give them the choices
31:24
and then step back and let them process what the decision is
31:27
going to be. But but listen to them if
31:30
they're saying I love to be in the water, right?
31:32
I love going swimming with my kids and I just want to be able
31:34
to have a watch that I could put on that's.
31:36
Accurate and reliable. That has a good water resistance
31:39
rating. You can ask questions about
31:41
that, but then don't recommend a watch that has you know.
31:44
A5 bar or a 50m water resistance, right?
31:47
Make sure you're looking at 100 meters or more.
31:49
Give them something with a screw down crown.
31:51
Give them suggestions there. Right So.
31:53
Be that good friend, and again, even.
31:56
With that friend, and I want to be very clear about this, if at
31:58
the end of the conversation they still want a Rolex, put your big
32:02
boy pants. On put your big girl pants on
32:04
and help them get it. Your job is that close.
32:06
Watch friend is to. Not talk them out of it.
32:08
Your job is to make sure that they know why they're choosing
32:11
and what they're choosing among all these other options.
32:13
And so that's the difference I think between informing and
32:17
redirecting. And our goal here is to inform.
32:21
They. Redirect themselves wherever
32:24
they're going to go, and so back to.
32:26
The main thread, let's talk about segment 7 and we're going
32:29
to sit into these two failure modes.
32:31
And I think I added this section because again, I failed so many
32:34
times this last couple of weeks as I.
32:36
Thought I kind of was figuring stuff out and then I just, I'm
32:38
just, I'm a failure. I've tried so hard to get things
32:41
right and I just continue to mess up.
32:42
So and then doing all the homework on these episodes to
32:45
the amount of work is is nuts. So I'm getting all that and then
32:48
having it to to deliver and then having it just disappear.
32:51
Just, you know, it's a punch in the gut.
32:52
So when we talk about failure modes, know that part of this is
32:55
just me projecting my failure modes.
32:57
OK, now there are two ways watch friends, I think will mess this
33:01
up. And again, I've messed up this
33:03
on both sides and I had to apologize to people on both
33:06
sides. So I see.
33:07
Both of them all the time this community and I want to name
33:10
them so that you can avoid them. So failure mode one and again
33:13
Restate is guilty of this is the snob.
33:18
It's. The watch friend who hears
33:20
someone say I want to Rolex and then immediately starts
33:23
performing their own sophistication.
33:26
Right? Hold on a second, have you
33:27
considered something more interesting?
33:30
A submariner is kind of boring, isn't it?
33:32
Let me show you what a real connoisseur wears all this
33:35
garbage, right? The person thinks that they're
33:37
educating their friend. They're not right?
33:39
I thought I was educating my friends.
33:41
I was not. I was projecting.
33:44
I was using my friends vulnerable moment as a moment of
33:47
asking what where they're asking me to help, to demonstrate to
33:51
the friends and to themselves that you know, I've moved past
33:54
this obvious choice. And so let me help you sidestep
33:57
this obvious choice. And guess what?
33:59
That is a terrible. Way to be a friend in this
34:01
hobby. You don't do that to people, so
34:04
don't be that person. If you find yourself becoming a
34:08
person that's doing that, stop, take a breath, do what I did and
34:11
just go. And that's a, that's a, that's a
34:14
sucky way to be a good friend of this to people in this
34:16
community. So take a breath.
34:18
The Rolex is what your friend asked for.
34:21
So help them get that Rolex now failure mode too.
34:23
I'm going to call this the mute cheerleader.
34:25
This is the opposite end of the spectrum, right?
34:27
The opposite mistake. Your friend says something like,
34:30
Hey, I want a Rolex. And you say great pick.
34:33
And then it's like crickets afterwards, nothing else.
34:37
So the person thinks that you're being supportive, kind of, but
34:40
you're actually just being kind of useless.
34:42
It's. In my world in in education, for
34:45
example, it would be some example of students writing A3
34:48
or A5 page paper or, you know, somebody writing something
34:50
longer, a big document and then me putting good job or a :) or a
34:54
thumbs up at the end. It's like that's, that's a
34:56
ridiculous response. This person poured time into
35:00
this. They took, they took, they read
35:02
the, they read the materials, they listened to my lectures,
35:03
they went through the whole thing.
35:05
And then they created this document.
35:07
You know, it could be upwards of 750 words or more in text
35:10
citations, proper citations at the end, proper formatting and
35:13
all this kind of stuff. And I give him a thumbs up.
35:15
That's not again, that's not being supportive, that's me
35:18
being useless. That's me not earning my keep in
35:20
my role in that transaction, in that, in that interaction with
35:24
that student. They're they're doing their job.
35:26
Let me do my job. And so again, failure mode too
35:28
is being the mute cheerleader. Again, don't be useless here.
35:32
Your friends asking for help. They value your expertise and A1
35:35
liner cheer response doesn't give them what they asked for.
35:39
So put the phone down, look them in the eye and have a
35:42
conversation with them because they want you to share what you
35:45
know. They want you to walk them
35:47
through references. They want you to talk about the
35:49
AD experience of the conversation, about sizing,
35:53
about the real trade-offs of a Submariner versus a date, just
35:56
versus AGMT for their specific life.
35:58
So the mute cheerleader is going to withhold experience and
36:02
they're going to call it kindness.
36:03
It's not being kind, it's just being a bad friend.
36:05
So be a good friend. And so the right move, I think
36:08
is kind of in the middle path of this.
36:10
You're going to inform without redirecting, you're going to
36:13
support without being silent. And you're hopefully you can
36:17
tell them everything that you would have told yourself if you
36:20
were buying it. Don't try to talk them out of a
36:23
decision, but instead help them make a decision that they're
36:25
already making just with more information.
36:29
Now, Segment 8, we're going to say when Rolex might not be the
36:33
final answer. You knew this was coming right
36:35
from an indie guy. So here's the part that I'm
36:39
going to be careful with in this episode.
36:41
This is the part that I kind of have to thread a needle.
36:43
So if I don't thread that needle, give me a heads up in
36:45
the comments. If your friend is buying a nice
36:48
watch, like the nice watch, it's like they're all they're one
36:52
nice watch, which again, I envy those folks, the watch that they
36:56
wanted because their dad had one, the watch that they've been
36:58
saving up for some folks. Maybe, you know, maybe they
37:00
saved up for years to get this watch right.
37:03
The watch is going to mark something.
37:05
The Rolex is, I think often it's the exact right choice, so you
37:09
help them get it. But there's a second case, the
37:13
case where your friend is not just buying one watch.
37:16
It's the case. And this is the part where
37:18
you're probably sending this to them.
37:20
It's the case where they're at the beginning of becoming an
37:23
enthusiast. Yeah, they got the Rolex.
37:26
They love it. And then guess what?
37:27
Six months later they're texting you or they're calling you and
37:30
they're saying hey, what about this watch?
37:34
They might now be asking you about tutor or Omega.
37:37
They started to use words like movement, architecture and
37:40
finishing and in house. And they're asking you about
37:42
Grand Seiko and. That's.
37:44
Kind of something that's different right now, they're
37:46
asking you about, they're sending you YouTube videos and
37:49
they're asking you about this micro brand and they know about
37:51
a zealous drop, right? That.
37:54
Friend is now becoming you and if I'm being honest and I'm
37:57
trying to be as honest as I can in this podcast, the whole point
38:00
of this show, I think this is where so many of us in the hobby
38:04
eventually arrive. The Rolex stays cool or the
38:08
Rolex doesn't stay also cool, but the center of the
38:11
conversation in your collecting life starts to move.
38:15
It moves towards brands that possibly we've talked about in
38:18
the last 10 episodes, Independence, micro brands,
38:21
watchmaker driven companies, watches that almost nobody
38:24
recognizes when you. Wear them.
38:26
So why? Why does that happen?
38:28
I'll give. You my honest answer.
38:30
And I'm specifically saying this as my answer from my journey.
38:34
Again, take that. Take that for what it's worth.
38:37
Your friend's journey may be completely different than yours,
38:40
and that is genuinely fine. For me, the more I live with
38:44
watches in this hobby and again going very back to the beginning
38:48
of when I started owning watches we're going 4 decades now, the
38:51
more I realize that the watches that meant the most to me were
38:56
the watches I only kind of knew about the watches whose value
39:01
lived inside me. That makes any sense.
39:04
The watches I didn't need anybody to recognize the Rolex
39:08
on my wrist. The Rolex is brilliant to get
39:10
rid. It gets recognized by everybody
39:12
and so it has that kind of superpower.
39:13
Not that can obviously be a detriment as well, depending on
39:16
where you're at in the world. The flip side of that superpower
39:19
is that the meaning of that watch, it's it's become
39:23
partially set by other people, by your in laws, by your
39:27
colleague, by the stranger at the airport.
39:29
It's. What it translates to, to me is
39:31
that that watch never becomes yours, it's always theirs,
39:34
right? And we always talk about this
39:36
in, in my circles as well as when I see someone with a
39:39
Submariner, for example, I don't know if they're a watch person
39:43
or not, or maybe they just have a sub and that's their only
39:45
watch or, or if that's their travel watch or whatever it they
39:49
may not even know that, you know, Rolex is the brand and
39:52
Submariner is the, the, the references.
39:55
They don't, they don't, they don't know any of that, the
39:56
model numbers and that kind of stuff.
39:58
And that's fine. But if I see someone wearing a
40:01
choppeck, for example, or if I see somebody wearing a dorm
40:03
Bluth, or I see somebody even wearing a tutor or an Omega, I
40:06
can have different conversations typically with those kinds of
40:08
folks that I might with a Rolex person.
40:11
And I say that as a, you know, Rolex former owner, right?
40:15
And again, that's not a criticism of Rolex.
40:17
It's just there's a different relationship, I think to
40:19
watchmaking. And both of those relationships,
40:21
again, I think they're completely legitimate.
40:25
Nobody, again, we talked about my wife, for example, in the way
40:28
that she enjoys watches. She doesn't know the reference
40:30
numbers, she doesn't care. She just enjoys the watches.
40:33
And so let people enjoy their watches.
40:35
And so I think both of those, again, completely legitimate.
40:38
Some collectors I think want watches that everyone
40:42
recognizes, right? They want, they want to watch
40:44
when they go somewhere, they want everybody to know that they
40:47
have that watch. That's fine.
40:50
And then some collectors want watches that almost no one
40:53
knows. And so I think most of us, I
40:55
think in the end of this hobby, I think we want a little bit of
40:58
both. We want watches, I think at
41:00
least I do, that are recognizable and well known.
41:04
But then I want those kind of curveballs as well, that it's
41:06
like when people ask you like, whoa, whoa.
41:08
Whoa, whoa, what? What is that so again?
41:11
If your friend asks you 6 months after buying a Rolex and they
41:14
they call you and they start asking different kinds of
41:16
questions. That's a.
41:18
Sign that maybe, you know, I, I wouldn't say that that's not a
41:21
sign that you should have steered them somewhere else.
41:24
It's a sign that your friend is kind of growing in this space.
41:28
And now with that growth, the rest of the hobby is going to
41:30
become open to them, including and especially these brands that
41:34
almost no one has heard of. And I think that's that's the
41:37
purpose of this podcast is I think that you part of this kind
41:40
of tribe have become one of those people that that you own
41:46
your Rolex and you enjoy it, but you're you're looking somewhere
41:48
else, right? Or you don't own your Rolex and
41:51
you're looking somewhere else. Whatever it is, just just know
41:54
that you're you're welcome here. Now, segment 9.
41:56
Let's talk about what's next. Deep breath.
41:58
As I've recorded this multiple times.
42:00
So this is going to bring me, I think beautifully to what's
42:02
going to come up in the next episode.
42:04
So I'm going to give you a little bit of a teaser of what
42:06
what's coming up in the the next one.
42:09
So I think if Rolex is the brand whose value lives in the
42:13
significant part, the recognition.
42:16
So what's the opposite of that? Then you can kind of see how my
42:19
brain works as I sort of weave these, these things together.
42:22
I see them very much these, these episodes as kind of
42:26
chapters and standalone documents.
42:27
And so I want them to kind of flow together.
42:30
So I mean, if you could see my, my planning of my post it notes
42:33
and all this kind of stuff of how I think this is all going to
42:35
work out now. I hope that that's coming across
42:37
to you as well as this builds out, you can see how my brain
42:41
kind of works. So if again, if Rolex is the
42:45
significant part, it has the recognition, I'm asking the
42:48
question, what is the opposite of that?
42:50
Now again, not the rejection of Rolex, not the snob anti Rolex
42:55
pose the actual opposite as in they could sit next to each
42:59
other in the watch box. The opposite.
43:02
Think about that. The brands whose possibly their
43:05
value lives somewhere completely different.
43:08
Brands whose value lives in kind of the bloodline in the workshop
43:12
that they came from and the people who trained them or
43:16
actually knowing who the watchmaker was that actually
43:18
made the watch on your wrist. So here's something that most
43:21
listeners don't know. In the late 1990s and early
43:25
2000s, there was a small workshop in the Swiss town of
43:29
Lilac and there was this single kind of complications house
43:35
called Renaud Puppy, and it's pronounced or it's spelled
43:40
RENAUD&PAPI. And ultimately it was basically
43:46
owned by Autumn RSP Game. And inside this workshop at
43:50
these adjacent benches, there was this small group of people
43:55
that were working on grand complications for the highest
43:58
end brands. There are small group of young
44:01
watchmakers. And you've probably never heard
44:03
of them yet, maybe you have. But then, you know, within 20
44:08
years or so, that small group of bench mates, you know, they'd go
44:11
get coffee and drinks together, they'd go get lunch and dinner
44:14
together. And they became, you know, they,
44:15
they got, they got to know one another.
44:17
But 20 years later, they would scatter across Europe and each
44:21
of them would start these independent brands that we know
44:24
today or that I know and I'm trying to share with you.
44:27
And some of them make the most respected watches in the world.
44:32
And they started at that bench, Robert Grubel and Stefan Forsay.
44:37
They met at Renault and Puppy. And they would go on to start
44:42
Grubel Forzy, the the most technically ambitious Turbion
44:46
house, I would argue, in the world.
44:49
You know, two brothers from a small town in the Netherlands,
44:52
Bart and Tim Grunenfeld, they trained at Renal and Puppy.
44:57
They would return home and they would start this tiny family
45:00
workshop making watches that were inspired by their
45:03
grandfather's clock tower mechanism.
45:06
And through this connection, there was this tie that that
45:10
tied them together. There's a French watchmaking
45:13
house in Morteau called Piccanet.
45:15
And they're in the process right now of trying to revive 100 year
45:21
or 100% French hot horology. And the rumor is that they have
45:27
reportedly or they had reportedly hired some movement
45:31
architecture engineers, designers from Google 4Z's
45:34
workshop to produce an in house movement.
45:37
And that movement's in the Concorde.
45:39
And you can see it when you see that watch because it is slammed
45:43
thin and it very much looks like kind of like a Laurent Ferrier
45:46
kind of a feel, but it's at a fraction of the price.
45:49
And so again, three brands, one workshop and three completely
45:53
different paths. So in the next episode, we're
45:55
going to be taking a look at this kind of Renault and Papi
45:58
kind of the this feel of what's going on there.
46:01
And I think the the story of how a single building in the log
46:06
quietly produced the future of independent watchmaking and how
46:10
today you can actually wear one of those bloodlines on your
46:14
wrist. They are completely different
46:15
price points. Trust me, I will get into the
46:17
prices of some of them, but I'll tell you that Pikanet is very
46:21
much in striking distance from most people on who are obviously
46:25
listening to this podcast. And it's one of my favorite
46:28
stories in this whole hobby and I can't wait to share it with
46:31
you. So that is episode 11.
46:34
Can't believe we've made it to 11 of what's on your restate.
46:37
If this episode hit, if you've been the snob or you are the
46:40
snob or the mute cheerleader, or maybe you were the friend that
46:44
got steered toward the wrong watch or any of the above, send
46:47
me a message. I want to hear your stories
46:50
again. We are we're trying something
46:52
out that's different and thinking this space.
46:54
And so again, as we grow, as this community grows, I'm
46:57
excited to take your input and suggestions and put them in
47:00
there. If you want to shoot me an
47:02
e-mail directly, it's going to be reste ristepodcast@gmail.com.
47:07
That's what we're using for now. If it doesn't work, then I will
47:10
try to get it updated, but restaypodcast@gmail.com is how
47:15
you can communicate with me directly.
47:16
And I want to hear your stories. I want to hear the good ones.
47:18
I want to hear I can hopefully share them in future episodes
47:21
once I figure out what this is all going to look like, again,
47:23
with your permission. And then maybe you'll end up on
47:26
a future episode. And so again, if you've got a
47:29
friend who's right now sitting on a submariner wait list or
47:33
walked into a boutique last week and they put their name down,
47:35
maybe send them this episode. Tell them their watch friend
47:39
approves, tell them to enjoy the wait.
47:41
Tell them that the day when it that watch arrives is going to
47:44
be one of the greatest days in this hobby and to enjoy it.
47:47
Now to Rolex, genuine respect from all of us always.
47:52
I'm watch offski. Take care of yourselves and wear
47:55
something good, whatever good means to you.
48:17
I walked in with cash in hand. You gave me glass in a sales
48:21
pitch plan. Too much shine, not in a bite.
48:24
Too many dreams locked up to sight.
48:26
I want the case that it's like steel, not a flex that I can
48:31
barely feel. You keep saying heritage.
48:34
I keep hearing hold the line. Coaxial is rash and that part
48:39
rules. But if you make it thicker then
48:41
you lost the cold. We know what we want.
48:43
Don't act so surprised. Slim it down and let it lift
48:46
right before our eyes. Bring back the 2254.
48:50
Bring back the 2254. We're not asking for reward.
48:55
Just give us what we came here for.
48:58
Prices are way too high. Prices are way too high.
49:03
Watch group getting together. We've been patient long.
49:14
The dial's clean, but the numbers keep killing the dream.
49:17
I love the builds, I love the feel.
49:20
Now make it fit like something real.
49:22
Don't hide the heart behind the hype.
49:25
Don't charge a fortune for a second.
49:27
Like you had the blueprint, you had the fire, now you've gone
49:31
and raised the barbed wire. Go axial is red.
49:34
Say it again. But we want that shit on the
49:37
wrist again in case Strong souls, the whole damn list.
49:40
Stop missing the mark. You know what this is.
49:43
Bring back the 22 four reward. Just give us 1 high prices.
49:57
Way too hot. Whoo you had the icon, you had
50:10
the lane. Now every new one feels too
50:12
safe. Cut it thinner, cut it clean,
50:16
Bring the old sparge back to the screen.
50:30
Bring back the 2254. We're not asking for reward.
50:35
Just give us one we came here for.
50:39
Coaxial is right. Coaxial is right.
50:43
Watch group getting together. Bring back the watch we had.