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SMNTY Sets Some Boundaries · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not gonna stephanely
0:07
Speaker 1: never told your protection of iHeart Radio. Okay, Anny, for
0:19
Speaker 1: today's episode, I have a pretty big generic question, but
0:24
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see how well you do. So, on average,
0:28
Speaker 1: how often do you think you've actually said no or
0:32
Speaker 1: declined a request in your adult life? On average? On average?
0:38
Speaker 1: I think it's shifted recently because the pandemic, but before
0:44
Speaker 1: that not often often at all. And even now, like
0:51
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, I'm still pretty bad. But I have
0:54
Speaker 1: gotten better because I have a pretty good reason. Um.
0:59
Speaker 1: I have a friend, a good friend of ours, once
1:02
Speaker 1: told me like, you don't have to even respond because
1:04
Speaker 1: the non response equals no, And I was like, but
1:06
Speaker 1: that's so rude. So I can't even do that. I
1:10
Speaker 1: have to say yes or no. That's my co to.
1:13
Speaker 1: It's just to not respond. Not now, I know, I
1:17
Speaker 1: pretend like I'm not there. I'm like, I don't I
1:19
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what's happening. Oh no, And
1:21
Speaker 1: then like the next day you're like, oh, I'm sorry,
1:23
Speaker 1: it's so sorry. I just kidding. If I if I
1:27
Speaker 1: know you well know that I can say no to you. Like,
1:29
Speaker 1: if you can handle a note, then I say no.
1:32
Speaker 1: But if you people have had people who like pressure
1:34
Speaker 1: me and talk you into it and won't take that,
1:37
Speaker 1: so I just don't respond sometimes. Yeah, if I say
1:41
Speaker 1: no and then you're trying to convince me, now during
1:45
Speaker 1: the pandemic, I will say, then I just won't respond anymore.
1:48
Speaker 1: But before then I could be convinced, I could be
1:51
Speaker 1: easily convinced. Yeah, yeah, And you know what, You're not
1:55
Speaker 1: the only one. And we're gonna talk a little bit
1:57
Speaker 1: about all of that, including the fact that we do
2:00
Speaker 1: need to perspect other people's nose, which is sometimes hard
2:03
Speaker 1: for me. I'm one of those people, like I really
2:06
Speaker 1: feel like I can't read sometimes whether you're saying no
2:09
Speaker 1: just because you feel like you can't do it versus
2:13
Speaker 1: you actually don't want to do it like that, those
2:15
Speaker 1: are the two differences. But you know, with all the
2:17
Speaker 1: everyday stress, there's been a lot thrown at us recently,
2:21
Speaker 1: and it seems like so much, so much in the
2:25
Speaker 1: past few years, and for some of us we have
2:28
Speaker 1: really grown into setting some boundaries again, like I just
2:33
Speaker 1: may not respond to you, and you have done really
2:36
Speaker 1: well because you've decided that you actually like you're alone time,
2:39
Speaker 1: maybe a little too much sometimes, but for others it's
2:43
Speaker 1: actually gotten worse, especially when it comes to people trying
2:47
Speaker 1: to change the state of the world. There's been so
2:50
Speaker 1: much that's happening, and there's been so much, honestly just
2:53
Speaker 1: scary moments where we're like everything is about to be
2:55
Speaker 1: the worst. So to that end, we feel like we
2:59
Speaker 1: have to do even more and definitely can't slow down.
3:02
Speaker 1: But there's no denying setting of boundaries is at a
3:06
Speaker 1: nactual talent um, and there's some who are really good
3:10
Speaker 1: at it and then some we're not. We're still learning, right,
3:17
Speaker 1: And of course we had to take a minute and
3:19
Speaker 1: research if there was a difference based on gender. And
3:23
Speaker 1: again so just to note a lot of the studies,
3:26
Speaker 1: though some more recent, are typically done from assist hetero perspective,
3:30
Speaker 1: so it's not as intersectional when it comes to like
3:32
Speaker 1: the queer community or any of that. So again, we
3:35
Speaker 1: would like, we would like that to be not so
3:38
Speaker 1: much as the case, but unfortunately we can't always get that.
3:43
Speaker 1: But again, this is information that is good to know
3:45
Speaker 1: on a personal level, and we are going to hit
3:47
Speaker 1: the intersectional marks. We are going to talk about when
3:50
Speaker 1: it comes to the bipod community as well, but just
3:54
Speaker 1: for the perspective, it is on a very personal level,
3:57
Speaker 1: so very individualistic, I guess, yeah, yeah, And I know
4:01
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss this later, but I feel like
4:02
Speaker 1: this is one of those topics that often gets wrapped
4:05
Speaker 1: up and sort of the like catchy, very heteronormative magazine
4:10
Speaker 1: titles that are like, here's how you set boundaries with
4:12
Speaker 1: your men, And there's so many of those, like we
4:16
Speaker 1: had to we throw all of the Cosmo articles, which
4:19
Speaker 1: is there's nothing wrong with that if they are evidence based,
4:23
Speaker 1: you do you, but you know to the point that like,
4:25
Speaker 1: this is not what we're looking at necessarily to better
4:27
Speaker 1: to boundaries to catch a man, right right, Yeah about that,
4:34
Speaker 1: But we better get into this first, all right, and
4:38
Speaker 1: let's get started with the definition. According to Miriam Webster,
4:41
Speaker 1: boundaries are defined as something that indicates or fixes a
4:45
Speaker 1: limit or extent. But a better definition of what we're
4:48
Speaker 1: talking about is boundaries as quote an expression of inner authority.
4:53
Speaker 1: And that's according to Bethany Webster dot com. And it
4:55
Speaker 1: continues saying boundaries are a function of how much you
4:58
Speaker 1: are in tune with yourself, how much value yourself and
5:01
Speaker 1: where and with whom you choose to invest your energy.
5:04
Speaker 1: Boundaries are often a battle people choose to not take
5:07
Speaker 1: on easier to please people, rather than dealing with the
5:10
Speaker 1: conflict of saying no. Or it could be what author
5:14
Speaker 1: Dr Kristen Lee of Psychology Today rights quote, it signifies
5:18
Speaker 1: a deeper value set. If you're the type that always
5:21
Speaker 1: wants to be there for people you care about, it's
5:23
Speaker 1: because you value relationships. If you're the one at work
5:26
Speaker 1: who says yes to every project, it reflects how much
5:29
Speaker 1: you value learning. But when we only say yes, we
5:32
Speaker 1: might be missing chances to invest your time and energy
5:34
Speaker 1: in ways that help us take our values and goals
5:36
Speaker 1: to new levels. And it can affect women and those
5:40
Speaker 1: in marginalized communities differently, right, And we're gonna talk a
5:43
Speaker 1: little bit about that in a minute. But first, here's
5:46
Speaker 1: some reasons why people may not stick to boundaries, and
5:49
Speaker 1: it includes perfectionism kind of what we're talking about, not
5:53
Speaker 1: want to let anyone down, or wanting to be seen
5:55
Speaker 1: as the person who can do everything in anything. And yes,
5:59
Speaker 1: I don't want people to see me being weak. So
6:01
Speaker 1: therefore like, yeah, of course I know how to do
6:03
Speaker 1: that what what does that mean? You know? Uh, Then
6:09
Speaker 1: there's fomo, or the fear of missing out. I don't
6:13
Speaker 1: want to be left out. What if you miss something
6:16
Speaker 1: or you get excluded the next time around, which was
6:18
Speaker 1: a big fear as an introvert. I'm like, oh, no,
6:21
Speaker 1: I don't want to go out, but they're gonna not
6:23
Speaker 1: invite me anymore, and that's even worse. But on top
6:27
Speaker 1: of yes, there I have friends who absolutely will not
6:30
Speaker 1: say no because they're afraid they're gonna miss out on
6:33
Speaker 1: something significant and then they're gonna miss out on the
6:35
Speaker 1: conversations later to come that you do you are? Do
6:39
Speaker 1: you have fomo? I do have fomo. I think we've
6:42
Speaker 1: talked about this before. I have both fomo. But also
6:45
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm a queen of avoidance, and going out
6:51
Speaker 1: or doing something is the best way for me. Not
6:55
Speaker 1: not in a good way and not in a healthy way,
6:56
Speaker 1: but the best way for me to continue my unhealthy
6:59
Speaker 1: habit of a it whatever it is. So they kind
7:02
Speaker 1: of both come together in a real un natural way.
7:06
Speaker 1: It's not good. Yes, I know a lot of people
7:10
Speaker 1: who do that because being alone meis you have to
7:12
Speaker 1: think about things, you know, Uh, maybe it's based on
7:18
Speaker 1: your personality. You know what I'm talking about? Are you
7:20
Speaker 1: and I n f J. Well, maybe you have a
7:23
Speaker 1: hard time in settling limits, or if you're an I
7:26
Speaker 1: n f P, you are the example we need to
7:29
Speaker 1: look toward as someone who does, who is good at
7:32
Speaker 1: setting boundaries, and that they try to force you into
7:34
Speaker 1: something you're like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. So there's
7:38
Speaker 1: this whole article if you want to go look at it.
7:39
Speaker 1: It's at personality growth dot com titled how each personality
7:43
Speaker 1: type handles boundaries and yeah, if you want to know,
7:47
Speaker 1: and if you know your Myers Briggs personality type, this
7:50
Speaker 1: may tell you what kind of boundaries or lack of
7:53
Speaker 1: boundaries you have, just so you know, or perhaps not
7:57
Speaker 1: being able to differentiate between the emotion of a no
8:00
Speaker 1: because you feel like you're rejecting someone or turning someone
8:03
Speaker 1: down or they're rejecting new and the rationality of knowing
8:06
Speaker 1: your limits. So a k A. You're the people please
8:08
Speaker 1: are the same kind of perspective of being the perfectionists,
8:11
Speaker 1: but you are scared to tell them no because that
8:14
Speaker 1: means they feel rejected and you of course have to
8:18
Speaker 1: spare their feelings and you can't say no, and say
8:20
Speaker 1: no means it hurts their feelings, which is not typically true,
8:24
Speaker 1: although sometimes people do feel that way because I feel
8:27
Speaker 1: like that a lot, because I and have a fear
8:30
Speaker 1: of rejection. That's a whole different conversation. Of course, that
8:35
Speaker 1: could be more than just these reasons, and there are,
8:38
Speaker 1: but we just wanted to give kind of a few
8:39
Speaker 1: examples of why this could be a problem. But let's
8:42
Speaker 1: talk about the deeper meanings yes according to one setting.
8:47
Speaker 1: When it comes to setting boundaries, oftentimes those who are
8:49
Speaker 1: perceived as less powerful have a harder time in setting them.
8:54
Speaker 1: In a nineteen article in The Swaddle titled how Society
8:58
Speaker 1: makes it Difficult for Women at minority to set emotional boundaries,
9:02
Speaker 1: sot up Venda talks about the difficulties of women and
9:05
Speaker 1: marginalized communities saying no. They write setting boundaries as to
9:09
Speaker 1: where the self ends and where other people begin. Navigating
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Speaker 1: relationships with this bounce in mind and saying no when
9:15
Speaker 1: necessary is a difficult task, especially for women and people
9:19
Speaker 1: from marginalized communities. Uh They continue on about the difference
9:22
Speaker 1: due to culture, gender, and societal expectations and how these
9:26
Speaker 1: differences can lead to different levels of philosophy when it
9:29
Speaker 1: comes to individualism and collectivism and how that can impact
9:33
Speaker 1: a person's boundaries. For example, when it comes to family,
9:35
Speaker 1: different cultures would dictate absolute loyalty to the detriment of
9:39
Speaker 1: an individual and would have a harder time in setting
9:42
Speaker 1: limits because of that. Right and related to that is
9:45
Speaker 1: a concept known as quote differentiation of self, which was
9:49
Speaker 1: originated by family therapist Murray Bowen. It is described as
9:53
Speaker 1: a quote a level of the differentiation of self, first
9:56
Speaker 1: to the degree to which a person can think and
9:58
Speaker 1: act for self while in contact with emotionally charged issues.
10:03
Speaker 1: It also refers to the degree which a person can
10:05
Speaker 1: discern between thoughts and feelings, kind of like how we're
10:08
Speaker 1: talking about the people pleaser. At higher levels of differentiation,
10:12
Speaker 1: people maintain separate solid cells under considerable stress and anxiety,
10:16
Speaker 1: they manage their own reactivity and choose thoughtful actions. At
10:20
Speaker 1: lower levels of differentiation, people depend on others to function,
10:24
Speaker 1: and they develop significant symptoms under stress. They act often
10:28
Speaker 1: destructfully based on anxious reactions to the environment. Their intellectual
10:32
Speaker 1: reasonings uses with emotionality. Even highly intelligent people can be
10:37
Speaker 1: poorly differentiated. So what they are talking about is this
10:40
Speaker 1: level of having the emotions being disconnected to the reality.
10:46
Speaker 1: And we know that women kind of have been targeted
10:50
Speaker 1: that way, being told you are the nurture the caregiver,
10:53
Speaker 1: so you should care and you should feel these ways.
10:56
Speaker 1: And we also know that men are told don't that
10:59
Speaker 1: is not mainly feeling feelings is not good. So it
11:01
Speaker 1: kind of has this abuse of power and this differentiation
11:04
Speaker 1: can really impact how you set those boundaries. And for women, well,
11:08
Speaker 1: again it's complicated. Doctor Tamiko Let explains in one article
11:12
Speaker 1: in the Zoe report dot com quote, in my opinion,
11:15
Speaker 1: when women say quote I need help or I need
11:18
Speaker 1: a break, we are viewed as a weak or not
11:20
Speaker 1: as competent as our male counterparts, despite not taking care
11:24
Speaker 1: of ourselves, which can result in mental health issues such
11:27
Speaker 1: as anxiety or depression. Women are also seen as liabilities,
11:31
Speaker 1: and again we know the implications of being seen as vulnerable.
11:35
Speaker 1: This is a feminine quality, and this is kind of
11:37
Speaker 1: how it's attributed to weaknesses, especially when it comes to
11:41
Speaker 1: positions of authority. Again, this whole level of that that
11:44
Speaker 1: nurture nature, the gendered ideas of emotions and and why
11:49
Speaker 1: that is so harmful at youth again, this impacts how
11:54
Speaker 1: we set boundaries and whether or not we can set
11:56
Speaker 1: those boundaries. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think the
11:58
Speaker 1: Socialization Act as but that is very very important. And
12:01
Speaker 1: I know for me, like because of some of the
12:05
Speaker 1: trauma in my past, I don't even if I want
12:08
Speaker 1: to say no, I don't say it at first because
12:10
Speaker 1: it's the safety. It feels like, oh, my city, he's
12:13
Speaker 1: gonna get mad, especially a man involved. Yeah. And and
12:17
Speaker 1: so for me, like this kind of almost separation of emotions.
12:21
Speaker 1: It's like I feel the emotion and then I shut
12:23
Speaker 1: it down and just say like yeah, yeah, like bubbly, bubbly, yes, right,
12:27
Speaker 1: And then later I'm like, oh god, um. And honestly,
12:31
Speaker 1: we're going to talk later on about how to set boundaries.
12:34
Speaker 1: But so many of these articles that are referring to
12:36
Speaker 1: women trying to set boundaries teach them how to do
12:39
Speaker 1: it kindly because it is dating. But again we'll come
12:43
Speaker 1: back to that. Yeah, alright, therapist Emily party Way, He's
13:00
Speaker 1: in on the same article saying boundary setting. Phrases like
13:03
Speaker 1: those mentioned above can also sometimes be interpreted as anti
13:06
Speaker 1: feminist in a society where women have fought so hard
13:08
Speaker 1: to gain quality and opportunity. It could be seen as
13:11
Speaker 1: a step in the wrong direction when a woman acknowledges
13:14
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries and limitations. It's ironic, truly, when the most
13:17
Speaker 1: feminist thing you can do is know yourself well and
13:20
Speaker 1: stand up for your knees, which feels like a damned
13:24
Speaker 1: if you do and damned if you don't situation. And also, yeah, like,
13:27
Speaker 1: like we talked about in Glenn and Doyle's book, the
13:30
Speaker 1: whole idea that women have been taught like selflessness is
13:33
Speaker 1: such a good thing that's of value, right, Yeah, setting
13:37
Speaker 1: your boundaries feels like being selfish, right right, and and
13:42
Speaker 1: being able to say no is such a power trip.
13:46
Speaker 1: So therefore again not female enough, are feminine enough, and
13:51
Speaker 1: so therefore all these things. But then again she say
13:54
Speaker 1: that it can also look like it's anti feminist, not
13:57
Speaker 1: taking on everything to show that you can take on everything,
14:00
Speaker 1: which is ironic in itself. Yep. Uh. So now we're
14:06
Speaker 1: going to talk about masculinity and boundaries because this whole
14:09
Speaker 1: thing could be translated as a perception of power or
14:12
Speaker 1: supremacy and how it plays in setting boundaries. And yes,
14:15
Speaker 1: boundaries are hard to discept for those who are more
14:17
Speaker 1: likely to be oppressed and marginalized, as Vida says, and
14:22
Speaker 1: I apologize because I think I added a superfluous in
14:26
Speaker 1: in my pronunciation earlier, and I hope I'm not butchering
14:28
Speaker 1: it in either case. Um. Anyway, they say, those who
14:32
Speaker 1: have more power in society, like men, build a lot
14:35
Speaker 1: of unwritten rules around themselves, and their time is often
14:38
Speaker 1: treated as a privilege. These powerful sections also ensure that
14:41
Speaker 1: the time and effort of others is seen as disposable,
14:44
Speaker 1: and thus this means these oppressed sections end up doing
14:47
Speaker 1: more of the work and having hardly any emotional and
14:50
Speaker 1: personal boundaries. Uh and what happens when privilege is rejected
14:55
Speaker 1: or limited? They pushed back, as the Bethany Webster dot
14:59
Speaker 1: com article rights, male fragility has played a role and
15:03
Speaker 1: that women quote have been conditioned to view our needs
15:06
Speaker 1: for boundaries with distrust. Having boundaries, saying no and setting
15:09
Speaker 1: one's own limits has long been associated with being difficult, puppetite,
15:14
Speaker 1: or a bit. Women who set boundaries have been characterized
15:17
Speaker 1: as being ugly, semin Nazis are man hating and have
15:20
Speaker 1: been threatened with violence and death. Right and of course,
15:24
Speaker 1: there is an actual other side to this before we
15:27
Speaker 1: move on, though we do, we want to talk about
15:29
Speaker 1: the fact that, yes, this becomes dangerous. And we've talked
15:31
Speaker 1: about this so often that when we put limits in
15:35
Speaker 1: saying no, I'm not interested, and we get pushed back
15:37
Speaker 1: on there is a dangerous precedent. What can we do
15:41
Speaker 1: to make sure that we don't get to that place?
15:44
Speaker 1: And that is oftentimes, uh, make up an excuse, try
15:48
Speaker 1: to be kind, all of those things, uh, and trying
15:51
Speaker 1: to get out of the situation because when we do
15:53
Speaker 1: set of boundaries, especially like in the dating world, uh,
15:56
Speaker 1: it becomes a challenge. Yeah. And on that other side,
16:00
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the nice guys as in fact,
16:03
Speaker 1: we stumbled upon some articles about how nice guys are
16:06
Speaker 1: asking how to set boundaries with quote flirty women and
16:10
Speaker 1: when I say flirty, this is in a negative connotation.
16:13
Speaker 1: And y'all we watched these advice videos, so you didn't
16:16
Speaker 1: have to uh and you shouldn't uh. And it includes
16:20
Speaker 1: teaching men to put limits and boundaries with quote firmness
16:23
Speaker 1: and through grounding. Uh. And according to one video, this
16:27
Speaker 1: is the idea of taking from the bottom half of yourself.
16:30
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming he's talking literally because he talks about
16:33
Speaker 1: don't take it from the truest pick from bottomoms like what,
16:35
Speaker 1: maybe he's talking about his feet. I'm gonna go with that,
16:38
Speaker 1: and really being planted or fill yourself being planted, and
16:42
Speaker 1: not quote overreact because if a nice guy overreacts, women
16:47
Speaker 1: will continue to quote poke adam, which was the phrase
16:50
Speaker 1: I was really quid to get a reaction and continually
16:53
Speaker 1: test those boundaries. Uh. Now it may sound like we're
16:58
Speaker 1: being sarcastic. The language of this video and articles, especially
17:02
Speaker 1: when it comes to the pickup artists who use this
17:05
Speaker 1: keith reinforcing the idea that women are mere property to conquer.
17:10
Speaker 1: Some of the videos we see, I think we're on
17:11
Speaker 1: religious based sites, so talking about being a man and
17:15
Speaker 1: fearlessly conquering your fears, all of these things. It was
17:18
Speaker 1: interesting and they do talk about why they may be
17:22
Speaker 1: rejected a little bit. And this article that popped up
17:24
Speaker 1: was specifically to the idea of how to deal with
17:26
Speaker 1: women who are degrading towards men when flirting. I will
17:32
Speaker 1: say again this article did try to differentiate with the
17:37
Speaker 1: person who was asking the question on whether he was
17:39
Speaker 1: upset about being rejected or the woman was actually being degrading,
17:43
Speaker 1: so at least he questions this. But let's be honest,
17:46
Speaker 1: when it comes to these conversations, they continue to place
17:49
Speaker 1: a woman at a level of being a prize instead
17:53
Speaker 1: of being a human. So it doesn't really have the
17:56
Speaker 1: connotation that this is a conversation with another person, but
17:59
Speaker 1: about how to kind of uh control them in this
18:04
Speaker 1: narrative of control the narrative in itself, but there is
18:07
Speaker 1: a whole other point to these types of articles uh
18:10
Speaker 1: misogyny in itself. It teaches men that setting boundaries, respecting
18:14
Speaker 1: boundaries are a part of a power play. Respecting boundaries
18:18
Speaker 1: is not manly, and that women want manly men, of course,
18:21
Speaker 1: and that only men can set these boundaries because once
18:25
Speaker 1: again it's based on privilege and power. When we see
18:28
Speaker 1: it in this context, we know not all men, Okay,
18:34
Speaker 1: we know, but the fact teachings like this are still prevalent.
18:39
Speaker 1: We can't underestimate the level of the need for perceived masculinity,
18:43
Speaker 1: and to do so can be detrimental for all of
18:46
Speaker 1: the marginalized community. And this is why we continue to
18:49
Speaker 1: talk about it and why we yeah are somewhat dismissive
18:53
Speaker 1: of the not all men because it just takes one man.
18:56
Speaker 1: It's just like that one time for us to underestimate
19:00
Speaker 1: what these conversations can push to. Yeah, and continuing the
19:06
Speaker 1: conversation of power and privilege and boundaries, there are many
19:09
Speaker 1: examples of why women continue to be unable to set
19:12
Speaker 1: limits and boundaries. One of the biggest examples is the
19:15
Speaker 1: backlash of saying no. As we talked about earlier, just
19:18
Speaker 1: by rejecting someone, a woman maybe putting themselves in danger.
19:22
Speaker 1: And many have learned throughout their lives our self worth
19:25
Speaker 1: is based on the way we can sacrifice ourselves, meaning
19:29
Speaker 1: in order to show our value, we have to give
19:30
Speaker 1: up ourselves our happiness for the betterment of others. Another
19:35
Speaker 1: great quote, we learned to unconsciously and automatically oppress ourselves
19:39
Speaker 1: and other women as a means of survival. We had
19:41
Speaker 1: to self fragment, disabling our own connection with ourselves to
19:45
Speaker 1: some degree and prioritizing external approval in a world that
19:48
Speaker 1: favors rich white men over everybody else, Right, and Danie
19:53
Speaker 1: a little daper When it comes to the bipop community,
19:55
Speaker 1: the dangers and past trauma is even greater. Black women
19:59
Speaker 1: have been the outskirts throughout the centuries when it comes
20:02
Speaker 1: to having their boundaries respected, but have been the ones
20:05
Speaker 1: to fight the hardest to establish it for the sake
20:07
Speaker 1: of the entire community. When the term intersectionality was coined
20:11
Speaker 1: by Kimberly Crenshaw, many pushed back because it meant that
20:13
Speaker 1: those in the hierarchy a k a. White women had
20:16
Speaker 1: to admit that their cause was not about equality but
20:19
Speaker 1: more about power for themselves. Not too long ago, black
20:23
Speaker 1: women drew a line in the sand after being continually
20:25
Speaker 1: sidelined or made a token by those who wanted to
20:28
Speaker 1: be considered quote allies. In a twenty nineteen article written
20:31
Speaker 1: in an injustice mac dot org, one writer says quote
20:35
Speaker 1: that over familiarity was acceptable for white women to display
20:38
Speaker 1: towards Black women, and we were meant to simply accept
20:41
Speaker 1: the faux familial connection while simultaneously remembering our place. And
20:46
Speaker 1: they continue in the article, given the history of slavery
20:49
Speaker 1: and white women's active, yes active role in subjugating, abusing,
20:52
Speaker 1: and dehumanizing Black women during that time, and after, we
20:56
Speaker 1: do not feel comfortable, and once we stay, we don't
20:58
Speaker 1: feel comfortable, and they for see to make it about
21:00
Speaker 1: their emotional distress. Is clear why we feel that way,
21:04
Speaker 1: even friendships nourished over years have boundaries. Adhering to boundaries
21:08
Speaker 1: shows value and respect for the individual and the relationship.
21:12
Speaker 1: How are we united when our attempts to establish boundaries
21:15
Speaker 1: are disregarded? How can there be respect? Right? And I'm
21:20
Speaker 1: just gonna put this out there, true, ally ship is
21:23
Speaker 1: not us non black and Indigenous women and non binary
21:27
Speaker 1: folks stating that we are allies, as this is not
21:30
Speaker 1: a title we can give ourselves. Just a reminder just
21:34
Speaker 1: because you call yourself that does not mean that that's
21:36
Speaker 1: what you are. I know you want to be, but
21:39
Speaker 1: if you truly are an ally you wouldn't have to
21:41
Speaker 1: say that for yourself. And honestly, that term has begun
21:44
Speaker 1: to fade as many people cannot understand the true responsibilities
21:50
Speaker 1: of ally ship. But about all of this is accepting
21:52
Speaker 1: the boundaries that have been set for us. So when
21:57
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, yes, we want to learn how
22:00
Speaker 1: who set boundaries for ourselves? A part of this learning
22:02
Speaker 1: is to respect boundaries as well. From that same article,
22:06
Speaker 1: they say if they are fighting for women, that must
22:09
Speaker 1: include all of us, which means combating all aspects of
22:13
Speaker 1: marginalization that women outside of whiteness are subjected to because
22:17
Speaker 1: just like your whiteness can often chilled you from the
22:20
Speaker 1: aspects of sexism, a black woman, a black trains woman
22:22
Speaker 1: will often see the worst because they like the protection
22:25
Speaker 1: of whiteness and they have to contend with anti blackness,
22:28
Speaker 1: misogyn noir and or transphobia. And to add our own
22:33
Speaker 1: trauma to other trauma, proceeds to cross the boundary lines
22:37
Speaker 1: as allies and honestly as decent humans. This is something
22:40
Speaker 1: that is important that we talk about, especially in a
22:43
Speaker 1: time where everybody is trying to come together for a
22:46
Speaker 1: greater purpose. But the fact of the matter is this
22:49
Speaker 1: intersectional level. Until everyone has equality, then no one has it.
22:54
Speaker 1: And the people who have been fighting the longest and
22:56
Speaker 1: the hardest are the ones that we should be listening
22:58
Speaker 1: to and oftentimes are the ones that are ignored. And
23:00
Speaker 1: just because we have good intentions, those good intentions are
23:04
Speaker 1: not always good mm hmm. And for the bipod community,
23:11
Speaker 1: it has only been more clear in the last few
23:13
Speaker 1: years the importance in setting boundaries. The pandemic and quarantine
23:18
Speaker 1: has made it clear that so often boundaries are pushed
23:20
Speaker 1: past the limits to the detriment of marginalized communities. According
23:24
Speaker 1: to another article, Ifa Hinde, a licensed therapist, talks about
23:29
Speaker 1: the impact of working from home during the pandemic. With
23:32
Speaker 1: many working from home over the last year, it has
23:35
Speaker 1: become harder to escape toxic workplace culture, which has been
23:38
Speaker 1: particularly hard on black women. According to Women in the
23:42
Speaker 1: Workplace study, of black women said they had their judgment
23:45
Speaker 1: questioned in their area of expertise while earning only sixty
23:49
Speaker 1: seven cents on the dollar compared to what men earned.
23:52
Speaker 1: These factors and other instances of workplace discrimination can cause
23:55
Speaker 1: a major impact on mental health and create a demand
23:58
Speaker 1: to separate work from other areas of one's life. Unfortunately,
24:02
Speaker 1: quarantine made that much harder, and they continue writing. Coupled
24:08
Speaker 1: with everything that's been going on and more awareness around
24:11
Speaker 1: police brutality and racial and systemic injustice, I think it's
24:14
Speaker 1: become really important for people to navigate what their limits
24:17
Speaker 1: are and how they can help really maintain their identity
24:20
Speaker 1: and engage the world around them. Right and another therapist,
24:24
Speaker 1: Rita Walker, was quoted in the same article saying these
24:27
Speaker 1: communities disproportionately carry high levels of burden, with less access
24:31
Speaker 1: to education, housing, economic and political opportunities while shouldering more
24:35
Speaker 1: violence and disparities in health and well being. These communities
24:39
Speaker 1: are resilient, but even resilience has its limits. We often
24:42
Speaker 1: get overwhelmed before we know it. When that happens, we
24:45
Speaker 1: feel as if we cannot take any more mentally, because
24:47
Speaker 1: we need our minds to accomplish everything in life. It's
24:50
Speaker 1: a good idea to protect it before feeling overwhelmed. And
24:53
Speaker 1: even if we think we can handle anything, everyone has
24:57
Speaker 1: a limit. Yeah, and there is a barrier. What comes
25:00
Speaker 1: to Black and Indigenous women being able to set boundaries?
25:03
Speaker 1: Many are criticized for taking a break. A couple of
25:06
Speaker 1: examples include Naomi Osaka and Simone Vials, who are both
25:09
Speaker 1: criticized for stepping back due to their mental health. Many
25:13
Speaker 1: accused them of betraying their country for not willingly sacrificing
25:17
Speaker 1: their own health for a metal, and many Black women
25:21
Speaker 1: are characterized as being angry or too sensitive when asking
25:24
Speaker 1: civil requests, like using belittling language or appropriating terms like sys,
25:29
Speaker 1: which we're gonna kind of talk about in a minute.
25:30
Speaker 1: But Dr Let from the Zoe Report that we mentioned
25:32
Speaker 1: earlier actually talked of the very situation concerning Osaka and vials,
25:37
Speaker 1: She says, they have both put a spotlight on the
25:39
Speaker 1: idea that health is holistic and includes mind, body, and spirit.
25:43
Speaker 1: They've also exposed that black women have to work harder
25:46
Speaker 1: at demonstrating their worth and abilities, which makes them more
25:50
Speaker 1: susceptible to mental health concerns that are not often addressed
25:54
Speaker 1: due to stigmas surrounding women and the black and brown communities.
25:58
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think we need to kind of have
26:00
Speaker 1: that big conversation about why we want to demonize someone
26:05
Speaker 1: for our self worth. Again, that's the whole different thing.
26:10
Speaker 1: And as we were talking about the term CIS last year,
26:13
Speaker 1: there was a black TikTok creator who requested white women
26:17
Speaker 1: to not call her CIS and she was met with
26:20
Speaker 1: a lot of angry white women who immediately violate that
26:24
Speaker 1: request and went after her for for that small, simple request.
26:29
Speaker 1: And though we aren't going to talk about the incident
26:31
Speaker 1: too deeply, it's interesting to look at how quickly allies
26:35
Speaker 1: turned when told they do not have the privilege of
26:38
Speaker 1: saying something. And again, this has a lot to do
26:40
Speaker 1: with the African American vernacular that we have talked about
26:44
Speaker 1: previously that has been addressed previously by other hosts and
26:46
Speaker 1: why it's important that we understand appreciation versus appropriation. When
26:51
Speaker 1: we we had a book club with our guests talking
26:53
Speaker 1: about language and and the basis and the history of language,
26:57
Speaker 1: and a lot of it was stolen from black culture,
26:59
Speaker 1: which lack culture has been villainized for uh and being
27:03
Speaker 1: told they're angry or inappropriate or unprofessional. But yet we're
27:06
Speaker 1: taking their language. And this is one of those moments
27:09
Speaker 1: of like, you have not earned the right to call
27:10
Speaker 1: me sis and appropriately so and yet white women coming
27:15
Speaker 1: out of the woodward going but but but why can't I? Yeah,
27:20
Speaker 1: I mean I think that the whole respecting of boundaries,
27:24
Speaker 1: like if you want to set your own boundaries, you
27:27
Speaker 1: need to respect other people's boundaries as well. And I
27:31
Speaker 1: think that's so important to remember and even see that
27:34
Speaker 1: with them pronouns and trace pronouns right now. Um, and
27:40
Speaker 1: it feels very it does feel like very weaponized and
27:45
Speaker 1: privileged of like where you can't tell me no, do
27:48
Speaker 1: you know, but but you can't deny me of mine
27:54
Speaker 1: of making me miserable, which yeah, and you know this
27:56
Speaker 1: has kind of moved on that TikTok. I believe she
27:59
Speaker 1: erased her content because she was getting so much flak
28:03
Speaker 1: and even being told that she was too angry. It
28:05
Speaker 1: was so absurd. Mm hmmm mm hmmm. Um. But yes,
28:10
Speaker 1: as we have said before, angers is not a bad thing,
28:13
Speaker 1: and therapist Hindi agrees. They write, I think that when
28:17
Speaker 1: people experience a black woman being angry, it is not random.
28:20
Speaker 1: Oftentimes anger is a healthy response to someone violating your
28:24
Speaker 1: boundary or being dismissive, because we're all entitled to be heard.
28:28
Speaker 1: And I do think it really impacts black women and
28:30
Speaker 1: how they engage, especially in work. I think in social
28:34
Speaker 1: environments where black woman and black female identifying individuals engage
28:38
Speaker 1: with others like them, there's less of this fear of
28:40
Speaker 1: being angry because they're being heard and understood. Right, And Yeah,
28:45
Speaker 1: that's just such a big open conversation of what we've
28:48
Speaker 1: been seeing recently of like, okay, how do we do better.
28:53
Speaker 1: Let's do better. That's I feel like since Annie, you
28:56
Speaker 1: and I have come onto the show, that's kind of
28:57
Speaker 1: been that perspective, like we want to do better. Let
29:00
Speaker 1: snow when we're doing something that is inappropriate and or
29:03
Speaker 1: going against our own mission. But of course there comes
29:07
Speaker 1: to the outrage because you are being taken away from
29:09
Speaker 1: something and these boundaries that we've had to set for ourselves,
29:12
Speaker 1: even when it comes to the show, like yes, if
29:15
Speaker 1: we responded to you maybe because yeah, thank you so
29:18
Speaker 1: much for clarifying and letting get us know, versus you
29:21
Speaker 1: feeling offended because we're calling you in. That's a whole
29:25
Speaker 1: different conversation and studying that boundary of like, we're not
29:27
Speaker 1: going to engage in toxicity for the sake of your entertainment.
29:31
Speaker 1: And that's kind of where we are seeing these the boundaries.
29:35
Speaker 1: We all want our boundaries to be met and or respected.
29:40
Speaker 1: That means we also have to respect others even if
29:43
Speaker 1: it makes you uncomfortable or makes you feel like, oh,
29:46
Speaker 1: you did something wrong, because there are moments it is
29:48
Speaker 1: again a call in, and you need to consider about
29:51
Speaker 1: why that feels like a call in. So we've gone
30:12
Speaker 1: through some other reasons why boundaries are important and how
30:15
Speaker 1: setting boundaries or respecting boundaries again can it be difficult?
30:19
Speaker 1: So let's talk about how to set boundaries. And we're
30:22
Speaker 1: not gonna go completely into it. We're just gonna give
30:24
Speaker 1: you a few things that we have read from different
30:26
Speaker 1: articles and may be helpful. Uh. One big thing is
30:30
Speaker 1: figuring out what is important to you? Uh? Is it
30:34
Speaker 1: something that is a value to you? And just kind
30:37
Speaker 1: of I feel like I've talked a lot about mindfulness
30:40
Speaker 1: since the pandemic, but it's kind of that I like
30:41
Speaker 1: sitting there and thinking, Okay, what, why am I saying
30:45
Speaker 1: yes when maybe I didn't want to say yes? What
30:47
Speaker 1: is important? Where do I really want to lay down
30:48
Speaker 1: this boundary? And why is that? Yeah? Is it not
30:53
Speaker 1: a big deal? Okay? Cool? Is it going to set
30:55
Speaker 1: a precedent? Okay? Also, you could start learning some new
30:58
Speaker 1: phrases to say or no thing? So maybe not today
31:01
Speaker 1: type of way. Uh? And here are some examples from
31:04
Speaker 1: the Zoe Report and Psychology Today. Annie, We're gonna practice
31:08
Speaker 1: you're ready, okay, So I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna say
31:11
Speaker 1: I'll get back to you. That won't work for me.
31:15
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take that on right now. Thank
31:17
Speaker 1: you for asking. But no, Well, I will need help
31:20
Speaker 1: with this. I need a break. Yeah, I've changed my mind.
31:24
Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with that. That sounds like a great
31:28
Speaker 1: opportunity and I want to help, But is it okay?
31:31
Speaker 1: If I think about it for a while, I'd love to,
31:34
Speaker 1: but I know I'm over committed and won't be able
31:36
Speaker 1: to give this the time it deserves. We're very specific,
31:42
Speaker 1: but yeah, there are ways. Again, this is kind of
31:44
Speaker 1: again that whole being polite, and there's nothing wrong with
31:46
Speaker 1: being polite, but again I am interested to know who
31:51
Speaker 1: is being polite and who is just being blunt, right,
31:54
Speaker 1: And I'm also curious. This is kind of reminding me
31:57
Speaker 1: of the conversation we had around strategic incompetence um when
32:04
Speaker 1: people are like not being honest and genuine when they
32:07
Speaker 1: say things like this, or because it kind of it's
32:11
Speaker 1: again that flip side the corn is very complicated. But
32:13
Speaker 1: it's also like my mom. I have talked about this before,
32:18
Speaker 1: but it's kind of interesting because there are some things
32:21
Speaker 1: that because of when, when and how she was raised,
32:24
Speaker 1: she's learning after me, and this is kind of one.
32:27
Speaker 1: And she struggles really hard with saying no, and I've
32:31
Speaker 1: learned from her, but I think I've like kind of
32:34
Speaker 1: surpassed her. And I was telling her sometimes, if I
32:36
Speaker 1: know a conversation and I is going to involve that
32:39
Speaker 1: and I'm worried that I'm going to give in and
32:41
Speaker 1: I really don't want to, I'll like write out a
32:43
Speaker 1: freaking script. I will write something out. I will have
32:47
Speaker 1: bullet points on my hand like it's kind of it
32:50
Speaker 1: sounds silly like reading these things. That's like you can't
32:53
Speaker 1: just do that sometimes you need it, right. I have
32:57
Speaker 1: definitely practiced before head of whatever, mo would you say
33:01
Speaker 1: in the car as I'm driving having a full long
33:03
Speaker 1: conversation with myself meat alright, So back to some other
33:11
Speaker 1: smother tips that we found, Uh, taking a look at
33:14
Speaker 1: the big picture. Is it something you need to do
33:19
Speaker 1: right now? Can you kind of push it down the line?
33:22
Speaker 1: Does it help you, does it help anyone? Or is
33:25
Speaker 1: it just something that people are using you for. Be honest,
33:29
Speaker 1: let people know when you need a break. Don't ignore
33:32
Speaker 1: when you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's one of
33:34
Speaker 1: the things is we're not honest with ourselves when we
33:37
Speaker 1: come to that breaking point until it's too late. And
33:40
Speaker 1: again that's the same thing of being mindful. Just really
33:43
Speaker 1: listen to that. Oh yeah, I'm hitting that wall. I'm
33:46
Speaker 1: gonna need before I lose it and lose friends. I'm
33:49
Speaker 1: gonna need to take a step back. Yeah. I mean
33:51
Speaker 1: that's a great way to look at it. Is you
33:53
Speaker 1: don't want to have a meltdown and then hurt somebody.
33:58
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things we haven't really
34:00
Speaker 1: touched on in this episode but is sort of on
34:02
Speaker 1: the outskirts. I think a lot of it has to
34:04
Speaker 1: do with self esteem, um, at least when it comes
34:07
Speaker 1: to women. So for me, I don't have the A
34:08
Speaker 1: lot of times I don't have the self esteem. I'm
34:11
Speaker 1: not worth saying no. They want to do it, and
34:14
Speaker 1: they I want to make them happy because they're better
34:17
Speaker 1: than me. So kind of like telling yourself, now, if
34:20
Speaker 1: you want to stay in read that band fiction, then
34:23
Speaker 1: do it. What I say, Also find where you need
34:28
Speaker 1: to set boundaries. Is it in your work life, your
34:30
Speaker 1: love life. Many aspects of your life could be um. Yeah,
34:35
Speaker 1: and if you can get connected, whether it's through therapy
34:39
Speaker 1: or a support group. And there's a lot of bad
34:43
Speaker 1: friends out there, but there's a lot of great friends
34:45
Speaker 1: out there too, and hopefully you are able to connect
34:48
Speaker 1: with those people who will also tell you, hey, you're
34:51
Speaker 1: are you sure you want to do all these things?
34:53
Speaker 1: This is kind of running yourself, you know, tooth and
34:55
Speaker 1: you might not want to do this. Those are the
34:58
Speaker 1: friends you need, and sometimes it's nice to have someone
35:00
Speaker 1: as a sounding board of like is this too much
35:03
Speaker 1: or is this not enough? Type of conversation. Yes, yes,
35:07
Speaker 1: and again remember we need to learn to respect people's boundaries,
35:12
Speaker 1: Listen when they are letting you in. If you want
35:15
Speaker 1: to be an advocate, make sure you are listening and
35:17
Speaker 1: not putting words into other people's mouths and adding more
35:19
Speaker 1: work for others. Google is an amazing tool for learning
35:23
Speaker 1: and there are so many great resources out there for that.
35:26
Speaker 1: Sometimes it does feel really funny again kind of looking
35:29
Speaker 1: at these sort of basic keeping traps, but it makes sense,
35:33
Speaker 1: Like you know, people are complicated, right, and honestly, when
35:37
Speaker 1: it comes to when we talk about social justice work
35:40
Speaker 1: and we're talking about wanting to be good people and
35:42
Speaker 1: good advocates, Um, there is work out there. We have
35:45
Speaker 1: read several books and if you want to go through
35:48
Speaker 1: our book club list, there are amazing books out there,
35:51
Speaker 1: resources that already exists where you don't have to tax
35:55
Speaker 1: other people to do the same work when you can
35:59
Speaker 1: do it you're elf. Yeah, definitely, definitely, yeah, all of this,
36:06
Speaker 1: all of this can be healthy if you're doing it
36:08
Speaker 1: in a productive manner. And by the way, there are
36:11
Speaker 1: toxic boundary settings that happen as well again, refer back
36:15
Speaker 1: to boundaries and biopod community and toxic masculinity and yes,
36:19
Speaker 1: strategic incompetence perhaps, and boundaries can help you avoid burnout
36:24
Speaker 1: and have a better sense of identity and yeah, even
36:27
Speaker 1: build a better self esteem, right um, And boundaries are
36:31
Speaker 1: different for different people from better humans. Dot pub article
36:37
Speaker 1: uh titled how to Set Healthy Boundaries a Compassionate Guide
36:40
Speaker 1: for Women, writer Julia Horvat rights quote, boundaries exist on
36:44
Speaker 1: a skill for each person, and we all have to
36:47
Speaker 1: find our own middle ground. And I think that's a
36:50
Speaker 1: good conversation to have. Not everyone has the same level
36:54
Speaker 1: or limits and it looks differently for them. And continue
36:57
Speaker 1: to ask questions for yourself, learn about your own limits
37:01
Speaker 1: and how to best set them. But also understand that yeah,
37:04
Speaker 1: community is a good thing. There is a healthy boundary.
37:08
Speaker 1: There's a healthy middle ground that we need to find
37:11
Speaker 1: when seeking help. Again, don't use your friends necessarily to
37:16
Speaker 1: to the point that you're pushing them away. You know,
37:20
Speaker 1: when I would mention that I was a social worker,
37:22
Speaker 1: I got a lot of interesting reactions and I would
37:25
Speaker 1: have to set boundaries to be like, maybe you should
37:28
Speaker 1: talk to your therapists about that and not that I
37:30
Speaker 1: didn't have many friends who did that, but I had
37:32
Speaker 1: strangers roommates that I wasn't I wasn't close to that
37:35
Speaker 1: would do things like does this sound normal? Does this?
37:37
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, I don't get me wrong, I
37:39
Speaker 1: love analyzing, but being constantly on taxing um and yeah,
37:45
Speaker 1: that's that same level. It's understanding middle grounds for yourself.
37:50
Speaker 1: I know sometimes it's really hard because you want to
37:52
Speaker 1: be a helpful person and you feel like you owe
37:54
Speaker 1: that to someone, but you know there's a certain point
37:59
Speaker 1: that you need to get have a moment for yourself. Yeah. Yeah,
38:02
Speaker 1: this is like many of our conversation is very nuanced
38:05
Speaker 1: because it's also like who are you actually trying to help?
38:09
Speaker 1: Are like me, are you trying to avoid something and
38:12
Speaker 1: you're pouring that intailing someone who doesn't want your help?
38:15
Speaker 1: You know, Just questions, good questions, yes. And I know
38:22
Speaker 1: in a lot of past episodes we didn't talk about
38:23
Speaker 1: it too much in this, but a lot of you
38:25
Speaker 1: have written about setting boundaries with family, so I know
38:28
Speaker 1: that is a big a big piece of this too.
38:30
Speaker 1: Um And Yeah, taking that time to learn your boundaries
38:34
Speaker 1: and how to set them in a healthy way. Is
38:36
Speaker 1: so important and if you have any tips you'd like
38:39
Speaker 1: to share. Again, not everything works the same for everybody
38:43
Speaker 1: can be different. But if you have anything you'd like
38:45
Speaker 1: to share, any resources you'd like to share, you know
38:47
Speaker 1: we love those. You can emails at Stephanie and Mom
38:50
Speaker 1: Stuff that I Hurt Me dot com. You can find
38:52
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Month of Podcast or on Instagram
38:54
Speaker 1: that Stuff Whenever Told You. Thanks as always to our
38:56
Speaker 1: super producer Christina, thank you and thanks to you for listening.
39:00
Speaker 1: Stephander close protection of my Heart Radio. For more podcast
39:02
Speaker 1: on my Heart Radio is heart Radio app, Apple podcast
39:04
Speaker 1: or where you listen to your favorite shows