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Episode 495: BOB DOLE 1995 Clintons Comeback Bosnia (Part E) The Senate Debate continues Byrd and Hatch (4) · BOB DOLE : 1995 Clinton's Comeback

• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Senator Robert Byrd, Decorder for West Virginia's order, the distinguished senator from West Virginia is recognized.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: President, I thank the chair.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there's no audience, or very little, here on the floor.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't speak tonight to the audience on the floor.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I speak to the audience that may be listening through the Atlantic the electronic act.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I also speak for the record, Mr.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: President, because a year from now we're going to look back on this record.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Ten years from now we'll look back on this record.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this record will stand a hundred years, a thousand years.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it should be made.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I will not uh make my statement in its entirety, but I ask unanimous consent that it be included in the record as though read in its entirety.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Without objection in so order.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: President, one resolution we're now debating, offered by the junior senator from Texas and other senators, directly addresses the idea of supporting the troops and the role which they have been asked to play in what I believe is a somewhat contradictory manner.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: The resolution before us would sign the Senate up to supporting U.S.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: troops in Bosnia without supporting the mission that they are called upon to perform.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: In two simple sentences, this resolution would purport to support U.S.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: troops while simultaneously undermining the very work they are performing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: How can we, as the resolution before us states, strongly support the U.S.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Armed Forces who may be ordered by the President to implement the General Framework Agreement for Peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina after having just stated in the same resolution that the Congress opposes President Clinton's decision to deploy United States forces into the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina to implement the General Framework Agreement for Peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of moral support are our troops supposed to find in that?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what kind of resolve does that demonstrate to anyone who might attempt to undermine the Bosnian peace agreement?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is a clear flag, Madam President, to those who would just target our troops, telling them that if they target our troops, we'll yank them out of that mission.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the mission is undercut and eroded from the very beginning by our own actions.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is not support for the troops, to my way of thinking.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: This resolution also fails to address Congress's constitutional responsibility to weigh in on decisions to employ U.S.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: troops.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is simply silent on that point.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: With this resolution, we again fail to dip even our toes into the icy waters of a controversial and difficult political decision to risk the lives of U.S.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: troops even in support of what we all hope will be a relatively unthreatening mission in support of a peace agreement.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because we cannot guarantee that the life of not one U.S.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: military service person will be lost in this endeavor, we shy like a skittish horse from the halter of our responsibility.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I say to my colleagues that the lives of three diplomats have already been lost in this effort.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: But we do not think their lives were lost in vain because we have reached a peace peace agreement.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is their effort, is their sacrifice, not worth this effort to see the hard-won peace through to the end?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is no better alternative, and Congress must now stand up and shoulder its responsibility to vote on this mission, to support both the troops and the jobs that they are undertaking.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is clear from the historical record that until recently the president has only limited powers as commander-in-chief.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Other than repelling invasions and protecting U.S.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: forces, the president's authority as commander-in-chief was bound by the congressional power to raise and support armies, and the congressional power to authorize the use of those forces in offensive operations.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is only recent practice in which Congress has acquiesced greater authority to the president to employ military forces in offensive or non-traditional operations without specific authorization.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: This has had the effect of tying the use of troops ever more tightly with the president in his role as commander-in-chief.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I am sorry that this is the case because I believe that it is a degradation of congressional authority that undermines the delicate balance of power intended by the framers, but it is the situation in which we find ourselves as a result of our own congressional unwillingness to assert our constitutional role.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: As Cassius said, the fault is not in our stars, dear Brutus, but in ourselves that we are underlings.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Congress remains proud of its support of the troops in terms of providing robust, even overblown defense budgets, but it has failed to exercise its authority under the Constitution to direct or authorize the use of troops.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: This was clearly not the intent of the framers.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: How can we reasonably tell troops in the field that we, the Congress, support you, the troops, but we're not willing to support the task you have been ordered to perform?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: That is what the resolution before the Senate says.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the hair that cannot be split.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: We should step up to the plate and support the job as well as the laborer, or we're not fulfilling our constitutional role.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that my colleagues will not be fooled into thinking that they can have their cake and eat it too.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: By supporting the troops without supporting the mission that they have been ordered to perform.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I it suppose I would say to one of my grandsons, my beloved grandson, who might be going off to Bosnia.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my dear grandson, you know I love you.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love you more than life.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I do not support the mission that you're on.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do not support the mission you're on.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to slam the door when you leave the house, and you're on your own.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: The resolution is a slap in the face to our troops, telling them that we support them, but but that their mission is foolhardy.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of support is that?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're up there on the high dive, troops.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we support you.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't believe there's any water of justification in the mission bucket that you're about to dive into.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is not support.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone can see that such a claim amounts to a hollow nut.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's no meat in it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's read what the Apostle Paul said in his first epistle to the Corinthians.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a little old-fashioned to bring the Bible on the floor, but I'm a little old-fashioned.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not of the religious left, the religious right.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe in this holy book.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what he said.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So likewise ye accept, ye utter by the tongue words easy to understand.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: How shall it be known what is spoken?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: For ye shall speak into the air.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Madam President, this resolution speaks into the air.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It says one thing on the one hand and another thing on the other.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is lighting a candle and putting it under a bushel.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus said, Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he giveth light unto all that are in the house.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: This resolution by the able senator from Texas does not give light to all in the house.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It puts the candle, the light, under a bushel.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we're left in darkness.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And worse, this resolution tells the president, not just this president, but all future presidents.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can do whatever you want.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: We may not agree with you, but you can count on us to support the troops.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do what you want with the troops.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: We don't question your authority.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Count on us to follow up with appropriations and other forms of support to the troops you have committed to the field.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: This dangerous precedent allows Congress to wash its hands, like Pontius Pilate, of the responsibility to authorize the use of troops, to stand in judgment on the mission and troops are called upon to carry out.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We can just pass contradictory, confusing resolutions to support the troop in carrying out any presidential whim without dealing with our constitutional responsibility to deal with politically difficult decisions on how and when to employ force.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: I ask unanimous consent that the record not show an interruption in my remarks.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Without objection, so that upon the conclusion of the senator's request and the action thereon, I be recognized to complete my speech.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Without objection, so the senator from Texas.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Madam President, and I want to thank the able Senator from West Virginia for yielding for this unanimous consent request on behalf of the leader.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: I ask unanimous consent that at the hour of 1015 this evening, the Senate proceed to the final vote on the pending Hutchison and Hoffman current resolution without further action or debate.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And immediately following the vote, the Senate proceed to the final vote on the Dole McCain joint resolution on Bosnia with the time between now and 1015 p.m.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: this evening to be equally divided between the two leaders or their designees.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Without objection, it's a word.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Without objection, it's a word.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Once again, Madam President, I thank the Senator from West Virginia for allowing us to uh to do this so that every member of the Senate uh who might be looking for a timetable would know that the votes do start at 1015 and that the time between now and then will be equally divided.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I appreciate the senator from West Virginia allowing us to make this announcement.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: The Senator from West Virginia.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Madam President, I thank the distinguished senator, and I thank the chair.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're giving an uncertain sound with this trumpet.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're speaking into the air.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Then, in the words of Paul, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want to address the resolution by Mr.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Doe and Mr.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: McCain.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I commend the majority leader, Mr.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Doe, as well as the distinguished senator from Arizona, Mr.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: McCain, for their resolution.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I commend them for working with the minority leader and other senators on both sides of the aisle to fashion it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I commend the minority leader, Senator Nunn, Senator Pell, and all of the other senators who are on the task force on the Democratic side who worked with the words and with the Republicans in fashioning the final product.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is important from a historical and constitutional perspective.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is important as well from a political perspective.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: First, if it passes, and I hope that it will, it provides the political underpinning necessary for the president to pursue a military deployment abroad, where there are going to be costs in the billions of dollars, where the risk of casualties certainly exists, and where the credibility of the United States and NATO is at stake.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, I believe that the language fulfills the constitutional requirement that the Congress authorize or approve the operation in specific enough detail to draw limits around it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: In doing so, the Congress fulfills the exercise of its responsibilities that the framers expected, and that has prevailed through most of American history.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is important for senators to reflect on our constitutional responsibilities in respect to our action today.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: While the Supreme Court has held that the President may not initiate hostilities and that he is authorized only to direct the movements of the military forces placed by law at his command, it has been contended that the existence of a standing army provides the president with broad discretionary authority to deploy troops on behalf of foreign policy goals.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Although the intrusion of a public force into a foreign country may well entangle the United States in a war, presidents have often manipulated troop deployments so as to present Congress with a fate accomplished.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Presidents in both parties have been told by their high-flying prerogative men that the president has the authority as commander-in-chief to move troops into a war atmosphere.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: The Constitution doesn't say anything about prerogatives, Madam President.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Given the broad range of war powers vested in Congress, including the authority to provide for the common defense, to raise and support armies, and to decide in Madison's words whether a war ought to be commenced, continued, or concluded, it seems clear that Congress may govern absolutely the Department of Forces outside U.S.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: borders.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: As a practical measure, Congress may choose within the confines of the delegation doctrine to vest the president with some authority to send troops abroad, but there is nothing inherent in the Commander-in-Chief clause that yields such authority to the president.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: We are aware of the now familiar pattern of most recent chief executives in similar circumstances of invoking the title Commander in Chief and descriptions of him as being the sole organ of foreign relations or chief of administration to suggest a conclusion of constitutional invulnerability.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: No statutory, no decisional authority is volunteered in support of that conclusion.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: If Congress is to have the sole authority to declare war, as the Constitution clearly states, then are we to suppose that in any military action short of a declaration of war, the authority reposed in the Congress by the Constitution to declare war is automatically shifted to another department?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are we to assume that any action short of a declaration of war shifts the authority from the Congress to the Executive?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: As we have seen, wars can be waged and have been waged without a declaration by Congress.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Such military actions nonetheless still constitute war.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: The shedding of blood, the taking of lives, the destruction of property, the movement of navies and armies are all the same, whether done under a declaration of war or without such a declaration.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: War is war.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it is declared or whether it is it is not a declared conflict.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are we to imagine that the authority is shifted from the elected representatives of the people in such instances to someone else or to some other department?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or to the executive or to the president?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of a declaration of war does not make the conflict any less a war than it would be with such a declaration.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: The sacrifices, the costs, the ramifications are just as far reaching in the case of an undeclared war as in the case of a declared war.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why then should we strain our imagination to the breaking point and pretend that short of a declaration of war, the pre so-called prerogatives rest with the chief executive?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: The authority rests somewhere other than in the legislative department.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: The high-flying prerogative men at the White House, not just in this White House, notwithstanding, President Clinton has taken the position that he does not believe that he needs the authorization or approval of the Congress to engage in a major military deployment in Bosnia, where warring parties have signed a peace agreement, but where flashes of violence and hostile actions are so possible that NATO and other forces are needed to make the agreement work.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: His immediate predecessor, Mr.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bush, took a similar position in regard to his deployment of forces to Saudi Arabia to do battle against Iraq in Desert Storm.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nevertheless, both of them requested the formal support of the Congress in advance of their actions.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've requested the president a number of times to come to the Congress and get congressional support before committing troops so that he will have not only the support of the Congress, but the support of the American people whose representatives are in Congress.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So again, here today in the resolution offered by the majority leader, the Senate is providing clear authorization for the President to undertake a specific action, and in this case, in somewhat more specificity than was the case with regard to Mr.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Bush and for a limited time.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: The operative words are in.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Section 2 that quote the president may only fulfill his commitment to deploy United States Armed Forces for approximately one year to implement the general framework agreement and military annex pursuant to this resolution, subject to the conditions in subsection B.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Madam President, that language fulfills the framers' intent from a constitutional perspective for the Congress to authorize the President to undertake war-making powers that he would not otherwise have the authority to exercise.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: The emphasis of the authority given here today is its limitation in scope and time.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: If in the future the missions engaged in by our forces go creeping into nation building or into doing the job of civil authorities for reconstruction or refugee movements, then the president would have exceeded his authority.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I, for one, would certainly be prepared to pull the plug on the operation, cut off the lifeblood of the appropriated funds if that kind of black uh backsliding were to occur.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Same is true if we went beyond approximately one year.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Language that I insisted be included in this resolution, because that's the language the president used, that's the language that the chairman of the joint chief of staff used, that's the language that the Secretary of Defense used, that's the language that the parties to the agreement used.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would have preferred to have had a definite date, but that might have been harder to sell in this body.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Our military leaders repeatedly testified that they were highly confident that the military implementation tasks could easily be completed within a year, and the date in the courts obligated us to specifically approximately one year.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thus, the resolution holds the party's feet to the time clock.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: In the interim, the Bosnian Muslims should be properly prepared from a military standpoint to defend themselves.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Furthermore, we ought to be considering putting into place a follow-on European manned security force if further military security from the outside appears to be needed.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, our job is to be done in approximately one year, and that should be that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: In the Dole resolution, the authority to implement the President's proposed Bosnia policy is clearly provided.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in so doing, the Senate is accepting responsibility for the action.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: In doing so, a vital bipartisan political foundation is being provided for the president's actions, and I think it clearly follows that the consequence of authorizing this policy falls upon us here in this branch as well as in the Oval Office.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it passes, we will be giving substance to the proposition that politics in America stops at the water's edge, and this is as it should be.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: American people should know that the Bosnia implementation is a national policy, approved through the constitutional scheme that was intended by the framers.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: President, I close by thanking the majority leader for his leadership and for his statesmanship in taking the position that he is taking in introducing the resolution that we're going to vote on.
• 26:08
  unknown: Mr.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: President, I urge in closing that the Senate vote down the resolution offered by the distinguished senator from Texas and the Senate from Oklahoma, Mr.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anhoffy, and other senators, and that the Senate vote to approve the resolution offered by Mr.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Dole and Mr.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: McKinney.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let me do this.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Ask unanimous consent that the time on our side of the aisle be divided as follows and in the following order.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Senator Wellstone, seven minutes, Senator Murray, nine minutes, Senator Leahy, seven minutes, Senator Simon, seven minutes, Senator Bradley, ten minutes, Senator Sarbanes, five minutes, Senator Dodd, seven minutes, Senator Lautenberg, seven minutes, Senator Graham, seven minutes, Senator Mose LeBron, five minutes, Senator Curry, ten minutes, Senator Dashell, ten minutes.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Without objection, so ordered.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Mr.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Brad, I yield the floor.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Senator Orrin Hatch.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I thank you, Mr.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: President.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: President, this body now debates again whether we should support the deployment of U.S.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: military forces into a European theater of war.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: We have debated this proposition twice before in this century.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: For almost four years, we have uh witnessed the horrors of ethnic clan ethnic cleansing in Central Europe.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Up until a few months ago, we saw regular we regularly saw massacres of innocents, mostly most often Muslims.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: Never again came back to haunt us.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Never again became the hollow cry at the end of a century, taunting us that we can never assume progress from barbarity.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Many of us in this body believed we had to act.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: While we accepted that we could not make a persuasive case that U.S.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: troops needed to enforce or protect the vital interest, we believed that the world's remaining superpower had the power, the means, and the moral responsibility to act.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: We voted again and again to lift the immoral arms embargo on the young Bosnian state, which was largely unarmed and was the target of the barbarians of ethnic cleansing.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: This summer we passed legislation with a strong bipartisan 69 votes to lift the embargo.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: The administration, proclaiming concern for the Bosnians, argued that lifting the arms embargo would cause the Serbs to attack the eastern enclaves of Zeppa and Srebrenica for this grotesquely false reason.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: A reason bloodily refuted by the massacres in Srebrenica that occurred anyway.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: The administration argued that we could not let the victims defend themselves.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: The administration argued again and again that lifting the embargo would spread the war and would require the use of thousands of U.S.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: forces to extract the UN and Allied forces.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so the administration argued that lifting the embargo was not an acceptable course of action.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now, less than a month after the signing of the Dayton Accord, the administration is deploying U.S.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: troops to Bosnia to implement the military annex of that accord.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: There is a temporary truce in Bosnia.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: The killing has mostly stopped.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: The ethnic cleansing has not.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the administration believes most sincerely that the deployment of the NATO implementation force now known as IFOR will, in the words of President Clinton, help create a secure environment so that the people of Bosnia can return to their homes, vote in free elections, and begin to rebuild their lives, unquote.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: The administration expects this to take approximately one year.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: President, I respect the president's prerogative in foreign policy.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: I believe this is a principle we must respect if we are to convey the proper influence and power of this great nation overseas.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: I supported this principle under previous presidents, and I strongly objected when members of the opposing party in this body sought to frustrate the initiatives of Presidents Reagan and Bush.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was disappointed when this body passed the resolution supporting President Bush's decision to deploy to Iraq by merely 52 votes.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: We had a clear vital interest at stake then.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: And had we waited, we now know that our troops would have been subject to the weapons of mass destruction Saddam Hussein was on the verge of using.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: President, I respect the principle of the president's prerogative in making foreign policy, but I have grave reservations, grave reservations about the Bosnian policy on which this president is embarking.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I wish to make one point exceedingly clear.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I believe that the Congress must show our support for the U.S.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: military.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: This senator will always support American troops abroad.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've recently learned that a Utah Reserve unit will be among those troops deployed to this region, and several other Utah reservists have been put on alert.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: There is no way that this senator will not do anything and everything to make sure that these troops have the backing they need in terms of equipment and materiel and moral support for what they do to serve our country's objectives.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: But appreciation and support for how well our troops carry out our policy does not mean we cannot question the policy itself as well as engage in some retrospective about U.S.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: policy.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I wish the president had taken a different approach on Bosnia three years ago.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Candidate Clinton said that he would lift the arms embargo.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: As I've said, I believe it was immoral to maintain an arms embargo against Bosnia while it was subject to slaughter by heavily armed Yugoslavia.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I must say that with his record, there is credibility, there is a credibility question when the president asserts it is the quote right unquote thing to do now to send troops to Bosnia.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I believe that the Atlantic Alliance is the most successful military alliance in the history of the world.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: The major democracies of the world held together throughout the Cold War, and Europe remains secure.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: The world is still a dangerous place after the Cold War, and I believe that NATO must remain relevant.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: I support the enlargement of the alliance because I believe the alliance promotes political values as well as enforces security.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish to support the democracies of Central Europe.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: But NATO's credibility has suffered greatly during the Bosnia debacle.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Tied by the dual key with the United Nations, the greatest military alliance was ineffective while genocide has occurred.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: NATO stood by while cities and towns were shelled, while humanitarian convoys were turned back, while helicopters violated a no-fly zone?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: A NATO F-16 was shot out of the sky this summer by Serbs using Russian military hardware.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: The administration argues that NATO's credibility is at stake.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I must ask, what happens if I-4 goes to Bosnia and after one year and the departure of I-4, the parties return to war?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Will NATO be more credible for having gone to Bosnia with great fanfare, but having returned without success, or worse, with casualties we cannot justify?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: This administration proclaims that this is a chance for peace in Bosnia.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: I do not doubt the president's sincerity.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I do not doubt that the administration is motivated by noble notions.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I feel, however, that its ideals and its ideas are immature.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: Peace is not the absence of conflict, Mr.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: President.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: We will always have conflict.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Peace, I believe, is the management of conflict, the management of conflict so that it does not escalate into violence and war.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And when I look at the Dayton Accord, Mr.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: President, and the record of this administration, I fear that many issues about managing the conflict remain unaddressed.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: The administration has spoken about a clear exit strategy, partially because we in Congress have demanded it.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: But if we do not have a vision of how to manage the conflict after the mission expires, I see very little reason to go at all.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: We need a post-exit strategy, Mr.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: President, and I've heard very little of one.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: A post-exit strategy and the success of the I-4 mission depends on a number of factors.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: I believe these include, but are not limited to, one, ensuring that the Bosnian Serbs do not pursue territorial gains beyond those that they have won in this ignominious uh partition known as the Dayton Accord.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, completing the agreement between Croatia and Serbia over Eastern Slavonia.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Number three, building and maintaining a cooperative relationship between the Bosnians and the Croatians.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: And most importantly, number four, maintaining the political and military viability of the Bosnian state.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Elements within the Bosnian Serbs have been proclaiming against the Dayton Accord since the day the accord was signed.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Demonstrations have been staged almost every day over there.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Are we to proceed while these rogue elements threaten with arms to ignore the accord?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: The administration tells us that it will rely on President Milosevic of Serbia to control these elements.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: President Milosevic has been very cooperative and effective, we are told.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: President Milosevic, I recall, was the instigator of the war against Bosnia and has reneged on his promises on numerous occasions over the past four years.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Perhaps Milosevic has become converted.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe in conversion.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I have doubts about the sincerity of those who convert after a mild NATO bombing campaign.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: President, I do I still do not know what the administration intends to do if our U.S.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: forces are subject to mortar attacks from rogue elements.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: For example, if we're attacked from a populated area by rogue elements that move freely within it, how will we respond?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Will a phone call to Belgrade?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the way to do it?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: How does President Clinton plan to hold President Milosevich accountable for keeping the Bosnian Serbs in line with the accord?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: I am also greatly concerned about the agreement between Croatia and Serbia over Eastern Slavonia.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: We should recall the brutal occupation of that Croatian territory.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: We should recall the pictures of the city of Vukovar, left a smoking rubble by the Serbs, complete with mass graves.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Since then, the Serbian army has occupied the areas.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: The area cleansed it and extracted its natural resources.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: The Croats and the Serbs signed an agreement just before the Dayton Accord to return Eastern Slavonia to Croatia.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: The agreement allows for one year to revert the territory to Croatia, but it has a one-year extension clause to be exercised by either party.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: The implementation of the international force to monitor the territory is already stalling.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: I predict here that the Serbs will ask for that one-year extension, and one year from now, Eastern Slavonia will still be occupied by the forces of Belgrade.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: It is a powder cag.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: If we do not ensure the peaceful transfer of that occupied territory, there will be a war within two years, and that war will spread to Bosnia, and the I-4 mission, with its casualties, will have been for naught.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: President, I am deeply concerned that the administration has not focused properly on this issue.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: President, we need to do more to strengthen the ties begun with the Washington Agreement last year to build the Croat-Muslim relationship.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: I have little expectation that the Serbian entity will ever participate in the unitary government of Bosnia-Herzegovina.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: But without the Croats and Muslims cooperating, Mr.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: President, we may end up participating in a three-way partition conducted by ethnic cleansing.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Since the beginning of this war, I have argued for a policy of lift and strike.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Lift the arms embargo on Bosnia and Croatia and allow them to defend themselves against Serbian aggression.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Use air power to dissuade the aggressors while the victims arm themselves.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: We saw a version of lift and strike this summer when the Croatian army, strong again, recaptured the Krahina and coordinated with the Bosnians to deliver military defeats to the Serbs.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Our NATO forces went into the skies in August and September to force the Serbs to accept a choice: more military defeats or a negotiated settlement.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Lift and strike worked, Mr.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: President, as we said it would.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Lift and strike was posited on the premise that a balance of power on the ground would effect a real peace, a peace based on the cessation of violence through deterrence.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now that the president has decided to deploy the I-4, I believe that it is essential that we ensure that Bosnia is able to defend itself.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: That, Mr.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: President, is the only way that we can guarantee that the Bosnians shall not be subject to more ethnic cleansing, to more deadly attacks, unless we plan to keep I-4 there forever.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: President, if we are not absolutely dedicated to arming the Bosnian government, we should be realistic enough to know that the war will reignite shortly after I-4 departs.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then, Mr.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: President, we'll ask, what was the point?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: For what did NATO extend its credibility?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: For what did America risk its sons and daughters?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: A decent interval to another war is not an acceptable answer, Mr.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: President.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: So five years before the end of this bloody century, we debate again sending our troops to Europe.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't need to come to this point.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: The Dayton Accord is abstract.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: The realities on the ground are brutal and complicated.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't need to come to this point.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: But America has given its word, and credibility of that word, we are told, is at stake.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: Let me preface my final comments by saying that I am equally concerned about America standing abroad and about maintaining our leadership in NATO.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: But our credibility is more threatened, I believe, by pursuing a mission with guaranteed casualties and uncertain goals than it is by telling our allies now that we do not support this policy, this deployment, and that we will arm the Bosnians until they can defend themselves.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: But if this policy will be implemented, and I believe the president is going to do so, and already our troops are arriving in the Bosnia, we must try to improve it.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: If we are to effect any positive influence there or here, Mr.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: President, we must insist that we arm the Bosnian government so that when we leave, we are not a few steps ahead of the next conflagration.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Therefore, Mr.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: President, I support the Hutchison-Inhoff Resolution.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: I commend uh Senator Hutcheson and Senator Inhoff for their work and efforts in this matter, as well as others who are co-sponsors of the resolution, which opposes the President's decision to deploy.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: But I also strongly support the Dole McCain resolution commending the U.S.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: troops and setting conditions for the deployment, which I hope will increase the possibility that this mission will not have been a waste of blood.