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Katie Woolf spoke with NT Police Association President Paul McCue on police attrition numbers · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Three sixty with Katie Wolf thanks to Joyce Main Dowin
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  Speaker 1: Home z O and Stuart Highway Beerrima.
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  Speaker 2: We do know, as we spoke to Robin Lanley about
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  Speaker 2: just a little while ago, that legislation passed earlier in
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  Speaker 2: the week around around you re offending and bail. Joining
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  Speaker 2: us on the line to talk a little bit more
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  Speaker 2: about this and also police attrition rates. Police Association President
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  Speaker 2: Paul Mchughue, Good morning to you, Paul.
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  Speaker 3: Very good morning Katie.
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  Speaker 2: Paul. How were you feeling yesterday after learning that that
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  Speaker 2: legislation had obviously passed through Parliament earlier in the week,
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  Speaker 2: but with that last minute change around exceptional circumstances.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, obviously it's sort of got a bit messy
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  Speaker 3: in the end in it really. I mean, obviously, you know,
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  Speaker 3: we're supportive of some changes over the last week or so,
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  Speaker 3: and obviously that last minute change brings in a slightly
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  Speaker 3: different light to the picture. And I think you know,
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  Speaker 3: when you now talk about you know, technical trivial exceptional circumstances,
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  Speaker 3: it really complicates things from our perspective, and I know
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  Speaker 3: our members were from an operational point of view, some
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  Speaker 3: of the feedback we've already received. Is you know, it
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  Speaker 3: is now more quite more complex than perhaps what the
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  Speaker 3: CLP we're proposing, which seemed to be fairly more straightforward.
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  Speaker 3: So you know, when we talk about a technical or
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  Speaker 3: a trivial breach, well, it's either a breach or it's
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  Speaker 3: not a breach in our view. But obviously with exceptional
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  Speaker 3: circumstances being on the table, now you know that that
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  Speaker 3: creates a situation where we could see people released on
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  Speaker 3: a regular basis.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, does it also I mean, does it make it
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  Speaker 2: more difficult then for the police if you know, like
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  Speaker 2: if someone's breaching their bail conditions, what's the process for
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  Speaker 2: our police that are on the ground.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a really interesting question because obviously this
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  Speaker 3: is coming pretty quickly. Our members are at the forefront
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  Speaker 3: of what's going to be expected out there, and I
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  Speaker 3: know that you speaking with some senior police executive they're
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  Speaker 3: working pretty quickly to try and get a message to
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  Speaker 3: our members in terms of process and procedure and what
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  Speaker 3: it might mean. But of course, until it actually takes place,
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  Speaker 3: it's difficult to know. And I guess, as I said,
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  Speaker 3: from an operational point of view, this will be a
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  Speaker 3: test obviously, you know, if a young person is on
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  Speaker 3: bail and commits a serious breach, you would like to think,
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  Speaker 3: even with exceptional circumstances, if they are released again, then
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  Speaker 3: fresh bail will obviously be a much more stringent than
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  Speaker 3: what the original bail was. But of course until that
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  Speaker 3: takes place, we don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does seem more confusing, particularly like you said,
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  Speaker 2: you know, if you're an officer that's on the ground
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  Speaker 2: trying to actually work out you know, work it all out.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, it's in either today or tomorrow, and
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  Speaker 3: you know, we've got fourteen to fifteen hundred police out
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  Speaker 3: there that are sitting there waiting to see what this
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  Speaker 3: is going to mean and really see some messaging around
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  Speaker 3: how that's they're expected to obviously operate in this environment.
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  Speaker 3: I mean it's a bit of a mine field. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: when it comes through so weekly, which obviously you know,
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  Speaker 3: people wanted to see change quickly, but when it comes
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  Speaker 3: in with a late change, as we've seen, then it
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  Speaker 3: makes it even more difficult.
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  Speaker 2: So will they, like, do you anticipate that there'll be
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  Speaker 2: a directive from the commissioner or from one of the
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  Speaker 2: deputy commissioners into how they have to actually implement it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I've spoken with an acting Assistant Commissioner Worst and
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  Speaker 3: he's assured me there will be some obviously, some information
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  Speaker 3: provided quickly. I know they've been working on it tilessly
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  Speaker 3: over the last couple of days, and you know that
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  Speaker 3: information is expected. I would think to go out today
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  Speaker 3: at the very latest. And you know, our members are
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  Speaker 3: very keen to see what that looks like, because you know,
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  Speaker 3: I certainly don't have time to go around and provide
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  Speaker 3: that in person and all be, no doubt through the
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  Speaker 3: email system and so forth, and we expect to see
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  Speaker 3: that today.
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  Speaker 2: So do you feel as though it's going to be
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  Speaker 2: a fairly smooth process or is it going to be
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  Speaker 2: a bit of a you know, a bit of a
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  Speaker 2: speed bump.
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  Speaker 3: Along the way. Yeah. Look, and what I hope is
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  Speaker 3: obviously it's going to take time to really get your
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  Speaker 3: head around some of these changes and how they've come about,
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  Speaker 3: and obviously operationally from what happens once people are at court,
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  Speaker 3: well that's a different thing. That's up to the courts.
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  Speaker 3: But obviously from a police perspective and those working on
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  Speaker 3: the ground, it probably will be challenging in those initial
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  Speaker 3: days and weeks.
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  Speaker 2: Now, do you, I mean, from what police are telling you,
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  Speaker 2: do you feel as though these changes are going to
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  Speaker 2: have a positive impact for the community.
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  Speaker 3: Look, obviously initially yes, exceptional circumstances now being introduced to
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  Speaker 3: allow you know, it's expected and the feedback we've received,
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  Speaker 3: it's expected that legal representatives will use that on a
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  Speaker 3: pretty regular basis, if not all the time, to argue
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  Speaker 3: why that person should be released, and so that will
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  Speaker 3: obviously that's probably the major concern we've received to date
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  Speaker 3: in terms of that last minute change.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, well, I do want to we'll also ask
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  Speaker 2: you about the situation with our police officers leaving. We
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  Speaker 2: know twenty two in the last month. The leader of
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  Speaker 2: the opposition Leofanociario has today said that the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 2: police force attrition rate has hit crisis point and an
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  Speaker 2: urgent investigation by an independent parliamentary committee must be launched
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  Speaker 2: to work out why so many officers are leaving and
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  Speaker 2: what can be done to improve retention rates. Paul, is
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  Speaker 2: this something that the Police Association would support?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously it's always a concern when we see the
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  Speaker 3: numbers leaving that we have, and you know, there have
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  Speaker 3: been some I guess, some scenarios put in place where
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  Speaker 3: interstate police forces, for example, are recruiting at rank, and
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  Speaker 3: what that means is, you know officers from here can
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  Speaker 3: retain their rank or their equivalent rank in another jurisdiction
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  Speaker 3: without having start all over again, and that always creates
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  Speaker 3: a RUSS. We've seen the AFP issue and other advertisement
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  Speaker 3: to get some more members over there at rank, so
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  Speaker 3: that will create a void. There's been a whole range
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  Speaker 3: of reasons. I'm sure why people have left, but the
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  Speaker 3: rates that they are leaving, of course, is a concern
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  Speaker 3: to us, and it has been for some time. It's
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  Speaker 3: been several months now. I've been hearing people looking at
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  Speaker 3: terms of alternative employment and that's a concern and that
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  Speaker 3: is no doubt why the Commissioner has been very active
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  Speaker 3: in terms of recruitment and we see that at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did ask the Police Minister Nicole Madison about
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  Speaker 2: this earlier in the week. Take a listen to what
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  Speaker 2: she had to say.
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  Speaker 1: Well, right now, there is a highly competitive recruitment program
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  Speaker 1: across Australia for different police forces, and sometimes it's not
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  Speaker 1: just comfortables that.
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  Speaker 2: You'll see in some of those numbers.
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  Speaker 4: It will be auxiliaries Aboriginal community police officers as well,
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  Speaker 4: so it's important to recognize it's not awfully foreign officers.
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  Speaker 4: But what I will say is that the environment for
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  Speaker 4: recruitment across this nation has never been more competitive.
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  Speaker 2: Would you agree with that sentiment? You know, is that
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  Speaker 2: the main reason at this point in time while we
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  Speaker 2: are losing such a high volume of officers.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I guess it's one of the reasons. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's difficult to pinpoint exactly why, but I mean we've
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  Speaker 3: been fairly active in trying to contact as many of
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  Speaker 3: those people leaving as we can to acitate the reasons why.
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  Speaker 3: And often it is a you know, they want to
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  Speaker 3: go home to family, it might be an opportunity in
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  Speaker 3: another police force or another government department elsewhere. And sometimes,
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  Speaker 3: as with any role, people are unhappy and they just
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  Speaker 3: want to move on, and that's certainly been the case
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  Speaker 3: for some of the ones we've contacted as well. So
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  Speaker 3: I guess without an in depth I guess scope to
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  Speaker 3: have a look at what the reasons are behind the
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  Speaker 3: numbers leaving, it's difficult to really pinpoint the exact reason.
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  Speaker 2: So you do reckon that having that more in depth scope,
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  Speaker 2: having a bit more of a look into it is
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  Speaker 2: probably a good thing.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's worthwhile in terms of you know,
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  Speaker 3: there may be reasons why people are leaving that you
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  Speaker 3: know and sit there and say, well, do we need
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  Speaker 3: to let them leave? Is there opportunities we can say
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  Speaker 3: to them? Is there something we can do to keep you?
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  Speaker 3: It costs a lot of money to recruit and train
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  Speaker 3: a person to become a police officer, and say, whilst
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  Speaker 3: it's great to see so many going through the college,
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  Speaker 3: if there are ways we can actually keep people with
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  Speaker 3: out then resigning, then that should be explored as well,
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  Speaker 3: and maybe that process will take place.
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  Speaker 2: Are we doing the same thing where people can move
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  Speaker 2: from into state at their current like at their ranks
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  Speaker 2: that they are currently at interstate across to the territory
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  Speaker 2: to the same rank.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. We've previously had a program which is called the
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  Speaker 3: Accelerated Recruit Program, and that involves a ten week training
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  Speaker 3: program of experienced officers from other jurisdictions and they actually
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  Speaker 3: graduate as a first class constable recognizing some of their
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  Speaker 3: prior experience. But that hasn't taken place for quite some time.
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  Speaker 3: I know the government and the Commissioner are kind to
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  Speaker 3: recruit locally and have recruits from day one, but that
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  Speaker 3: option in terms of axcelerative cruits still exists today.
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  Speaker 2: Just very quickly, Paul, we are running out of time,
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  Speaker 2: but we know that our school based police, it is
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  Speaker 2: something that you and I have spoken about on so
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  Speaker 2: many occasions. We are starting to see a list of
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  Speaker 2: schools which will have those school based constables back in place.
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  Speaker 2: What are you being advised at this point, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously it's someonegoing discussions around this. I mean, I remain
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  Speaker 3: really disappointed that, you know, whilst we're in a consultation
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  Speaker 3: phase and in a process which affects some constables in
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  Speaker 3: this position, that the government have continued to talk about
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  Speaker 3: this publicly. It is quite disrespectful in our view, and
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  Speaker 3: we are in a consultation phase. We know the schools
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  Speaker 3: are keen to keep constables, and we know the Commissioner
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  Speaker 3: and the Government are keen to put some auxiliaries as
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  Speaker 3: part of that model. So whilst that process is underway,
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  Speaker 3: it remains disappointing that it's in the public domain. But
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  Speaker 3: now it is, we'll continue to have those discussions with
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  Speaker 3: the Department to see if we can get a resolution
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  Speaker 3: as soon as possible.
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  Speaker 2: All right, thank you Police Association President. We are going
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  Speaker 2: to have to leave it there. Always good to catch up.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for your time this morning. Thank you. You're listening
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  Speaker 2: to Mixed ONEOW four point nine