Latest / Aggressively Human: For experts choosing expansion over extraction. / Cold outreach... as a human?!?

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Cold outreach... as a human?!? · Aggressively Human: For experts choosing expansion over extraction.

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Aggressively Human podcast,
0:04
SPEAKER_00: where we are hoping that at the very least you can fill out the part
0:07
SPEAKER_00: that says insert name here.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I am your co-host, Meg Casebolt.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Jessica Lackey.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: And today we have Laura with us,
0:15
SPEAKER_00: and I forgot to ask how to pronounce your last name,
0:17
SPEAKER_00: so we're just going to throw it over to you, Laura.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Laura, it's so nice to meet you, and please tell us about yourself.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad to be here.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: My last name is Low Pitch.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Like in baseball, instead of high pitch, it's the Low Pitch.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, perfect.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: So I help online service providers get the conversations that you want and you need
0:36
SPEAKER_01: with the high quality leads that you're looking for.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: And the spoiler is like those leads are actually already looking for you.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: You just need to like make that first contact and reach out to them.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: And that's the difference is that you don't have to sit around and wait for them to come to you.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Which is also the empowering part too.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Cause like You can be in charge of your own business,
0:56
SPEAKER_01: which is a whole other like podcast episode willing to go down there.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: That's not empowering.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: That's scary.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Cause what if they say no,
1:03
SPEAKER_00: that's where I always go with it is like,
1:05
SPEAKER_00: but then I've,
1:06
SPEAKER_00: and Jessica and I have talked about this on podcast many times where it's like,
1:09
SPEAKER_00: she's so much more comfortable with cold individual outreach because it's like,
1:14
SPEAKER_00: well, they're not going to ignore it if it's a direct email from me.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
1:17
SPEAKER_00: but what if they ignore it or they don't like me
1:19
SPEAKER_00: or like my like rejection sensitivity just like kicks all up into gear.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's go there.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: So I have had that problem.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: And then I realized it's kind of like riding a bike.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Like my youngest kid, I've got three kids.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: The youngest one is four.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: He is so nervous to take like the training wheels off his bike,
1:39
SPEAKER_01: but he's not even needing them right now.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: And where it kind of connects
1:43
SPEAKER_01: to like this outreach is you're already doing sales conversations with the people
1:47
SPEAKER_01: that you can help.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Probably, I'm guessing.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I hope you are.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: If you're listening, I hope you're doing conversations.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: This is just like the conversation before that conversation.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the train wheels.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not even like a big deal if they say no, because then you're like, OK, cool.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, why is it a no?
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm just really curious.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And then if they're like, well,
2:09
SPEAKER_01: I really hate cold email,
2:10
SPEAKER_01: which I obviously get a lot because that's what I deal with.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Then it's like, OK, what was your experience?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you hate it?
2:17
SPEAKER_01: What made you?
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And so if you can like kind of lean more into the curiosity,
2:22
SPEAKER_01: And this person obviously has a problem that I can help them fix.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm reaching out in the first place.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: It actually has nothing to do with me.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: It's more like I have this responsibility as a business owner to reach out and offer a solution.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like if you see someone wandering around the city looking super lost
2:39
SPEAKER_01: and you're like, man, I've lived here for 20 years.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you looking for?
2:43
SPEAKER_01: It's that same offer just in a business format.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: It actually has nothing to do with you.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think We tend to take it really personally because it's like, how dare you say no to me?
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you know what?
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have like,
2:59
SPEAKER_01: sometimes it's a fragile self-esteem and sometimes it's just like a really bad day
3:02
SPEAKER_01: and you just can't take another no.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, totally have those days.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Again, three kids.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: I hear no all the time.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: So if you are listening and you have kids,
3:12
SPEAKER_01: know that you probably have a thicker skin than a lot of other people
3:15
SPEAKER_01: and you can probably handle a couple no's.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: And really to quote Glennon Doyle, like, you can do hard things.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: And this is really, in the whole scope of things, not that hard.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And the worst that they're going to do is ignore you.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Whoop-de-doo.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: They ignore you, you go on your way, you find someone else, and that person might say yes.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So what Laura doesn't know is that this is not my first interaction
3:39
SPEAKER_02: with your work because- Really?
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: So I'm in Jeremy Enza's world and you did- Yes.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: A year or year and a half ago or sometime in 2025 or 2024,
3:53
SPEAKER_02: you did a workshop about cold outreach to Jeremy.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: And so- I do.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: You don't know that I know that.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: No, but let's like,
4:02
SPEAKER_02: I want to kind of take a step back because your work is not about quote unquote,
4:08
SPEAKER_02: cold email.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is, but it's not.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: And you have kind of like this approach about how do you make cold emails not
4:15
SPEAKER_02: so cold,
4:15
SPEAKER_02: but also, you know, a lot of people are like, well, I don't want to sell them this.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, I don't think that's actually the email.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Like you're getting,
4:25
SPEAKER_02: we all know that we're getting Hundreds of terrible cold pitches asking us
4:30
SPEAKER_02: to buy stuff.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: Apparently I'm asked if I want to buy a gym.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm asked if I want to.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: My favorite is like, do I want 10 qualified leads in my calendar every week?
4:46
SPEAKER_02: We're asked things that are ridiculous.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: And so I think we have this image of cold email,
4:50
SPEAKER_02: which is like,
4:51
SPEAKER_02: we must talk to people we've never heard of before, who've never heard of us.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: We must sell them something they did not want and do not need.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: And we must do it in a way that makes it sound like AI.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: And knowing your work,
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm like,
5:06
SPEAKER_02: that's actually not what Laura's approach to cold email is, if I'm getting it right.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: You are getting it right, yeah.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: So maybe we can take a big step back and be like,
5:17
SPEAKER_02: what are some of the misconceptions of cold email for service providers?
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Because when you taught it, I'm like, this seems logical.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And actually,
5:31
SPEAKER_01: if you're cool with it,
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I'd like to take a step one further back,
5:35
SPEAKER_01: like the prologue to that, which would be what actually is a cold email?
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Because So often I will say cold email and exactly what you just described pops
5:45
SPEAKER_01: into everybody's head.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: But that's not actually what a cold email is.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: A cold email is simply an email sent to a stranger,
5:52
SPEAKER_01: kind of like what I did with you guys to get on here,
5:56
SPEAKER_01: like pulling it really back and being super meta.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: You're sending an email to a stranger,
6:01
SPEAKER_01: someone who doesn't know you,
6:02
SPEAKER_01: to ask them to take the action that you would like them to take or to step in
6:06
SPEAKER_01: the direction that you need them to go.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not transactional.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not buy my stuff.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: It's not sell my stuff.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: It's more of a like a lean in, like a conversation starter.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I noticed that you actively have guests on your show.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in something a little controversial?
6:24
SPEAKER_01: Because if you are,
6:25
SPEAKER_01: I'd like to come on and talk about the other side to cold emails,
6:29
SPEAKER_01: which is kind of what my pitch was to you guys.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: So like podcast pitches, definitely cold email.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: The email I sent to Jeremy actually,
6:37
SPEAKER_01: Was a cold email because I was like,
6:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know what we could do together,
6:42
SPEAKER_01: but I feel like you're a collaborator.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: I am too.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I feel like your people would really like this.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: You want to like hash some ideas out.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a cold email.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: So I had no idea who Jeremy was.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: After I sent him the pitch, I was like, oh, I'm in the same community as him.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Like we have all this overlap and I just totally missed it.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: But that's OK, because really what.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Like going to your original question,
7:04
SPEAKER_01: like these ideas, these myths about cold email is it has to be transactional.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: You have to send them, they have to like do this work.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: They have to like click a link.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: They have to book a call.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: They have to like have a conversation with you and they don't actually have to do any of that.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: The easiest thing for them to do is say, yes, I'm interested.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And then you just nudge them down the path that you need them to take.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Like let's Talk about what you would want to talk about on your podcast or cool.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Like what are the problems you're facing in your business if it's a sales conversation?
7:39
SPEAKER_01: A lot of times I'll like prequalify someone in a conversation over email
7:45
SPEAKER_01: before we even get to a sales conversation because we're kind
7:49
SPEAKER_01: of just feeling it out.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: And so there's nothing transactional happening, which I think is one of the biggest myths.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: The other myth is that you have to have like this list of like thousands
8:01
SPEAKER_01: and thousands and thousands of emails and definitely not getting
8:05
SPEAKER_01: on Alex Hermozzi's case,
8:06
SPEAKER_01: but he is the poster boy for this type of strategy where it's like this idea
8:11
SPEAKER_01: of like more is better, more, more, more, more, more.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And I'm seeing it as like kind of a leftover of the bro marketing where it's like,
8:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't want 10 plus conversations on my calendar a week if they're
8:25
SPEAKER_01: with poor fit leads.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: I would like two conversations with like people I know who are like 70
8:31
SPEAKER_01: to 80% guaranteed to close.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: High fit quality leads.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: And because I don't need that many to make my revenue goals.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to work with hundreds of thousands of people.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: And so that's really the world that this mass cold email,
8:48
SPEAKER_01: this spray and pray approach is coming from.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Like more is better.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's actually not true.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Like Better is better.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I'll sign up for that any day.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think you just keep going back to the heart of, y'all,
9:00
SPEAKER_02: if you're listening,
9:03
SPEAKER_02: if you, you, like, Hormozy needs, his original business was the gym business.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think for a gym to be successful,
9:09
SPEAKER_02: you need like a couple hundred people and you need to like replace the churn.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, Hormozy traffics in a high traffic business model.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Unless you sell courses,
9:19
SPEAKER_02: which is a little hard to sell on cold email,
9:22
SPEAKER_02: I would imagine,
9:23
SPEAKER_02: for most of us,
9:24
SPEAKER_02: but like you probably need 12 at max, 12 to 20 clients a year, maybe.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And some of them are going to be referrals and some of those.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: So we don't need the big model approach.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: Anything that's like scaled, I'm like, no, bad news bears.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: So always continue to go back to your business model.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: But I'm curious, like,
9:48
SPEAKER_02: You're doing the qualification,
9:49
SPEAKER_02: and podcast pitching is like, the qualification is relatively public, right?
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you have guests?
9:55
SPEAKER_02: The amount of people that I've heard pitch themselves on podcasts
10:01
SPEAKER_02: when there is no guest, and I'm like, did you read or listen?
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, bar one, do your homework.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: But you can say, like,
10:08
SPEAKER_02: they take guests,
10:09
SPEAKER_02: they talk about this topic,
10:11
SPEAKER_02: I can come up with a pitch that's You know, appropriate for them.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: They know I know other people that were on their podcast because that's what you did for ours.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: How do you go about qualifying people that you send cold outreach to for like a service?
10:28
SPEAKER_02: So what am I like?
10:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do a question for a client who would,
10:36
SPEAKER_02: I think, be mad at me if I like, you know, said this is for so and so.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: But she's a brand designer.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: We're trying to get her to bigger brands.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: She has no idea.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: She,
10:46
SPEAKER_02: the only qualification she knows of is their brand is sad and needs to be updated,
10:51
SPEAKER_02: but you don't know if they're got the budget or if they love their brand
10:56
SPEAKER_02: because they did it when they were 25,
10:58
SPEAKER_02: you know,
10:58
SPEAKER_02: like we don't know whether or not they're,
11:00
SPEAKER_02: they're qualified in the sense of like, you know, budget authority, need, and time.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: All we know is that they have a brand that seems to be big enough and it's
11:07
SPEAKER_02: to this person's eye looks outdated.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: So like, How would you think about qualifying them before the email?
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Or is that what the conversation is on email?
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Which we will have to park because people do not want to have conversations over email.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, why not?
11:24
SPEAKER_01: I love conversations over email.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I just did this workshop actually about asynchronous sales conversations
11:29
SPEAKER_01: because I've been doing them over email and Loom videos.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm now using Tela.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: I like it a lot better than Loom, but totally different conversation.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: But I've been doing those for like the last five years because I had son number two
11:42
SPEAKER_01: and I was like,
11:42
SPEAKER_01: I can't,
11:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't get like two kids to like actually behave for an hour straight
11:47
SPEAKER_01: without me making sure they're behaving for an hour straight.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: So I don't, I can't do like a Zoom sales call.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: That sounds exhausting.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm stressed out by the time I get there.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: So sales emails, sales conversations over emails are quite frankly amazing.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: To answer your other question, yes,
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually,
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Doing the research to figure out if they have the problem that I can solve long
12:11
SPEAKER_01: before I'm sending the email.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: It's actually like step two of my research process.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So I do kind of a big bucket gathering to go out and find people
12:21
SPEAKER_01: who probably fit based on, you know, past clients, demographics.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I'm qualifying based on hypotheses or hypotheses
12:33
SPEAKER_01: or however you say that, right?
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Just guesses based on,
12:38
SPEAKER_01: I worked with someone who looked like this and they had the problem,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: so this person probably does too.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And then I'll go a step deeper on looking at that person individually.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm filtering it through gap signals is how I filter it.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: So I think this is what's really unique about the WARM framework, which I developed.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And I actually put it into a software that Called the architect and it's inside
13:05
SPEAKER_01: the warm client method because I know it calms a lot of people's nerves
13:10
SPEAKER_01: to know like this person that I'm reaching out to,
13:12
SPEAKER_01: this person I'm pitching actually legitimately has the problem.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: And then you can kind of shift into
13:18
SPEAKER_01: that like service-based outreach versus this kind of bro marketing outreach,
13:24
SPEAKER_01: which we tend to fall into where it's about me, but it's not about you.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: And so really we're looking for like these outside indicators.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: I call them gap signals where you're looking for the best way
13:38
SPEAKER_01: to describe them are like symptoms of the underlying problem.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And this is usually what you're doing during a sales conversation.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: You have like these questions that you're diagnosing someone's problem with.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: So you're asking questions like how big is your team sometimes to get a sense
13:57
SPEAKER_01: of Are they doing the work themselves or do they have a team?
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And if they have a team, they likely have a budget, right?
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Like these series of inferred guesses, basically.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: You can do that from the outside looking in because you can usually look and say,
14:13
SPEAKER_01: well,
14:14
SPEAKER_01: this person I'm doing research on,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: I've been paying attention to their emails maybe,
14:19
SPEAKER_01: or they post on social media and they said,
14:21
SPEAKER_01: hey, I just had this million dollar year.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Actually,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: if we could pick on like, say,
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Jessie Jones,
14:27
SPEAKER_01: who'd had that $5 million launch on Instagram,
14:29
SPEAKER_01: she's like a perfect example because she's putting this stuff out publicly.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: So if you can go onto her Instagram and look, you're like, oh, she's in dire need of help.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: She needs copywriting help up the Yahoo.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: She needs like customer support.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
14:46
SPEAKER_01: I help with those things.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: So now you have like a toe in the door because you're like,
14:51
SPEAKER_01: I know that you have the budget because you just had this big launch and I know
14:55
SPEAKER_01: that you have the need because I'm inferring these assumptions basically,
15:00
SPEAKER_01: but they're educated assumptions based on this big launch.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And so for your brand strategist person,
15:07
SPEAKER_01: I would say you're usually looking for like how big is the company's
15:15
SPEAKER_01: That they would like to work for.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Is it like 10 employees?
15:18
SPEAKER_01: If it is,
15:19
SPEAKER_01: you can make kind of an educated guess on how much money they're probably spending
15:23
SPEAKER_01: on payroll,
15:24
SPEAKER_01: which means how much money they're making in revenue at the other side,
15:28
SPEAKER_01: assuming standard benchmarks.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: I don't have those numbers in front of me,
15:32
SPEAKER_01: but you can find them on Google basically and make some well-grounded assumptions,
15:38
SPEAKER_01: which means that they can afford X amount of money For marketing, right?
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Or they already have a budget assigned for marketing, which is probably in this region.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: You would be amazed at how much information is already out there that people are talking about.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Like I stumbled across this one LinkedIn post by this billion dollar SaaS company.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, here's my whole marketing breakdown of what we're assigning to each category.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: And he had like 2 million, I think, to play with across like, All of this for his marketing.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: And he was like the CMO and he had like 300,000 on partnerships.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, dude, you are wasting so much money on ads.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Like I should totally pitch you to come in and do your partnership pitching for you
16:27
SPEAKER_01: because you could shrink your million dollar budget from ads and get such a return
16:32
SPEAKER_01: on investment using partnerships.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of a long winded answer,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: but The meat of it is like there's so much information out there already.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: The problem is it takes a long time to find.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Sure, you can use AI, but AI makes mistakes.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Like I accidentally pitched a podcast and they're like, we don't take guests.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh no, cardinal sin.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: I did it.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but podcasters get so many bad pitches anyway that that's like the smallest piece of it.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think everything that you're talking about here is the missing piece
17:06
SPEAKER_00: for what filters into our inboxes at a huge level.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just saying specifically for podcasters,
17:12
SPEAKER_00: even though I was just complaining about that.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like you get...
17:16
SPEAKER_00: You get a request on LinkedIn and they haven't even connected with you
17:19
SPEAKER_00: before they're pitching you on something.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Didn't you want to try my tool?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to get on a call?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: And so any sort of outreach,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: whether it's email outreach,
17:28
SPEAKER_00: whether it's DM outreach, if it happens too quickly and it's not...
17:34
SPEAKER_02: At least somewhat customized or personalized.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: It just feels like slimy in a way.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And so I think the reason that people do it is because if you do this at scale,
17:46
SPEAKER_00: you can just like paste, paste, paste, paste, paste.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, it feels easy.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And I'm putting that in scare quotes.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: It feels easy to just hit more people and maybe somebody will fall victim to it.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: As opposed to what you're saying,
17:58
SPEAKER_00: which is, no,
17:59
SPEAKER_00: you spend a lot of time on the front end,
18:01
SPEAKER_00: way more time on the front end,
18:02
SPEAKER_00: making sure that it's a good fit,
18:04
SPEAKER_00: ensuring that your pitch shows that you've done the research.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: But then a lot of people ignore the pitches because most of our inbox is just garbage.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: It is.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Or spam.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Like it's, yeah, it's really an uncomfortable.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: And so like for me personally,
18:23
SPEAKER_00: I spend a lot of time asking for recommendations and introductions.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: It's easier for me to cast a smaller nut.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And that way I can like be more in control of how I get into those inboxes.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: That totally makes sense.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: And I hear that often.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: I would say to that, If you're writing something that is relevant to the other person.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm tapping into this like driving motivator,
18:50
SPEAKER_01: this like goal that you already are driving towards.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times it's like make more money,
18:56
SPEAKER_01: save more money, or possibly look cool, like get street cred, right?
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Like look cool to other people, authority, expertise building.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: That's like a lesser one.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Usually we're all in business to make money, basically.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: So if you have figured out Like the vehicle that your lead is driving to get to
19:17
SPEAKER_01: that destination of making more money.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Whether that's, I was actually just helping a client with this.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Inside the architect, you can set up the gap signals.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: And so she's like, she does Pinterest for e-commerce brands.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And so we were looking to see who's already spending money on ads,
19:35
SPEAKER_01: like Google ads and Facebook ads, because that's an outside indicator.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Like this person, this brand has money.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: To essentially burn on some months to get new leads and new customers.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And so that means they also have the budget to hire a Pinterest manager
19:50
SPEAKER_01: to help grow their brand there.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And so when you start to look at it through the light of like, hey,
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I can help you basically do what you're already doing,
20:01
SPEAKER_01: get to your goal, but do it in a faster way that makes you more money.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: People inherently lean in because it's like you're being really relevant.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: To the goal that they already have and I think a lot of people get confused
20:15
SPEAKER_01: when I say like relevant and they're like yeah first name company
20:18
SPEAKER_01: and it's like it's not actually that that's personalization that's like icing on
20:22
SPEAKER_01: the cake the relevancy is the deeper method of like tapping
20:27
SPEAKER_01: into what is this person's existing goal what are they working
20:33
SPEAKER_01: towards are they working to sell their agency in five years if so.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: They need a controllable source of getting new clients in the door,
20:41
SPEAKER_01: one that doesn't depend on algorithms, right?
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Or is this person actually looking to never retire from their business?
20:50
SPEAKER_01: That is the case for how do I help them avoid burnout?
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And so it's different lenses that you're actually putting on.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And to your point of a lot of people do ignore the cold email,
21:04
SPEAKER_01: that is totally true, which is where the follow-ups come into play.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Like the winning is totally in the follow-ups because if you pay attention to all
21:11
SPEAKER_01: that cold email crap that you get in the LinkedIn,
21:15
SPEAKER_01: in your inbox, how many people follow up?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Not many.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: No, a lot of them follow up and then the follow-ups get like increasingly absurd.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Really?
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they like,
21:26
SPEAKER_00: you get to that like third or fourth email and it's like,
21:29
SPEAKER_00: what would you do if I had a turtle in this email and you missed the turtle?
21:32
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, what the fuck?
21:34
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like, that's the bro marketing.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: They're all following the same playbook is the problem.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: And now the playbook,
21:42
SPEAKER_02: like if you put someone in a CRM system,
21:43
SPEAKER_02: like a folk or something like that, it'll send you broad emails.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: It's not actually a person following up the same thing.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: LinkedIn,
21:49
SPEAKER_02: like they keep shutting down the third party tools,
21:50
SPEAKER_02: but now there's LinkedIn automation tools that like send you DMS and,
21:57
SPEAKER_02: but I have a, I have, I have two more questions about your warm method.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't want you to give away all the secrets, but, um, Like, how do you- I do.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I want all the secrets.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: I know, I want all the secrets too.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: All the secrets.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: But like, a balance between.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Right, because we know that just giving away the methodology is not something
22:14
SPEAKER_00: that people are going to go steal.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: They're going to go, I need to hear more from Laura.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: But that's a completely different conversation than what we're having.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: I have like- Basically, but you're right.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: So how do you,
22:25
SPEAKER_02: in two things, like,
22:26
SPEAKER_02: how do you,
22:26
SPEAKER_02: one, present to them that they might have an opportunity without, like, negging?
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Is that like a term we use now still?
22:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: And totally more of that pro marketing.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: But like, how do you feel like your brand is probably holding you back without saying that.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: And then the second is what is this is where my people really struggle is like
22:48
SPEAKER_02: the right size to ask because they're like,
22:51
SPEAKER_02: what's like a good like because like I'm my former one of my former coaches
22:56
SPEAKER_02: who was Jeremy's coach and like it's like
22:57
SPEAKER_02: a small world like his thing is always just like Like, are you interested?
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Is this of interest?
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And like,
23:03
SPEAKER_02: the goal is like, yes,
23:05
SPEAKER_02: you're not like,
23:06
SPEAKER_02: you're advancing the, like, you're simply like, is this of interest?
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Yes or no?
23:11
SPEAKER_02: Before we even like,
23:13
SPEAKER_02: move to like, book a call or stuff like that, because that's too big of an ask.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, so I'm curious, like,
23:17
SPEAKER_02: those two questions for you,
23:18
SPEAKER_02: again, like, how do you present to them that they might have an issue?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Like ours, like,
23:23
SPEAKER_02: you could say,
23:24
SPEAKER_02: you probably need podcast guests,
23:26
SPEAKER_02: because that's not like a Failure point of us,
23:29
SPEAKER_02: like we do need podcast guests, right?
23:30
SPEAKER_02: But how do you say, yeah, how do you be like, at this point, your brand is holding you back?
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Let me like,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: let's use this for some live coaching here,
23:39
SPEAKER_00: because this is something I struggle with when I think about this, Laura,
23:42
SPEAKER_00: which is that I could very easily pull together a quick report
23:46
SPEAKER_00: for somebody that's like,
23:47
SPEAKER_00: here's how you're showing up in Google,
23:50
SPEAKER_00: in ChatGPT,
23:52
SPEAKER_00: in Perplexity,
23:53
SPEAKER_00: in Claude,
23:53
SPEAKER_00: I could pull together a report in 30 minutes and be like,
23:56
SPEAKER_00: here's how you're showing up.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Is this how you want to show up?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: If not, reply to me, right?
24:00
SPEAKER_00: But then I've gotten these reports that have like, oh man,
24:04
SPEAKER_00: the worst is like,
24:05
SPEAKER_00: we don't even put this podcast on YouTube,
24:08
SPEAKER_00: but we'll get things from people being like, you didn't optimize your YouTube.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like circles of like,
24:13
SPEAKER_00: you could be putting things here and here and here and here and we could help you.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it can be very...
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Like patronizing.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
24:23
SPEAKER_00: it's like,
24:24
SPEAKER_00: to Jessica's point with a specific example,
24:26
SPEAKER_00: could I build a report and be like,
24:28
SPEAKER_00: here's what I see when I look at these particular services?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, is that what you want?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Or would you be interested in a conversation about showing up for what I know
24:39
SPEAKER_00: that you do, which is actually this?
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, that would be a really compelling case.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: But also, it's going, well, you failed.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: You failed.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: OK, this is such a good question because I actually have a story around it.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: A couple of years back, I worked with a veteran marketing agency owner.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: He does SEO.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: He's well known.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: If I said his name, you'd be like, oh, yes.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: But of course.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: So he was having kind of the same block towards cold emails first,
25:11
SPEAKER_01: where it's like he's also English, so a little bit naturally reserved.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: More inclined to not pitch himself, even though he is like bonafide expert.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: So there was definitely reserve around pitching, first of all.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: So like this, the shift towards it's actually a service.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: You're helping them is huge for a lot of people.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: Usually that gets you over like that first little hump.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: And then so if you can just shift yourself into that mentality of like,
25:42
SPEAKER_01: You are actually helping someone see a blind spot that they cannot see
25:46
SPEAKER_01: because they are like hand to face deep in their work, first of all.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: That can help you avoid kind of that bro marketing mentality of like, shame on you.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: How have you like published such a horrible website?
26:01
SPEAKER_01: That kind of mentality.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And then how to actually say that without saying that is more along the lines
26:07
SPEAKER_01: of you're going to reference research around So many people,
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I think I heard this stat,
26:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to totally make it up right now,
26:15
SPEAKER_01: but like 300 million people are using ChatGPT as their main source of information.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: So when they are looking for information,
26:24
SPEAKER_01: instead of going to Google,
26:25
SPEAKER_01: they go to ChatGPT and they use ChatGPT as kind
26:28
SPEAKER_01: of their functional search all engine, right?
26:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you're not showing up on ChatGPT,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: You're invisible to most of those people.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And so if you can pull in some sort of research to back up your point,
26:43
SPEAKER_01: you can just say, hey, look, research shows X, Y, Z.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: And I noticed that you're not showing up when I did a quick search.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Would you be interested?
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Because people are making buying decisions based off of what ChatGPT recommends, right?
27:01
SPEAKER_01: So again, you're tying it into their existing goal.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: You're tying it into their motivator.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: You're being really relevant about like, hey, I noticed this.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: This is what outside research shows.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's not you saying it.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: It's just research.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: It's just a stat.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And you're just referencing it kind of like a proof point.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And then asking then to Jessica's question, like, what are you asking them to do?
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And I like to ask them, are you interested?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Because I also think that the marketing world is moving
27:30
SPEAKER_01: towards this More consent-based marketing where I'm asking you, are you interested?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And if you say yes, then we can continue the conversation.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: And this is also a really good way to basically skirt the can-spam laws
27:45
SPEAKER_01: because those are unsolicited transactional emails.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: So if someone's engaging with you, that's not unsolicited.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: That is engagement.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: They are interested.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: You are free to continue.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And definitely not a lawyer,
28:01
SPEAKER_01: But I worked for some,
28:02
SPEAKER_01: so I like to pretend I have some sort of, you know, borrowed degree.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: But that, I would rest a pretty good case on that.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a really strong gray area of, like, they were engaging and they wanted this.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: And if they didn't, they could have said no at any time and I would have stopped.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I would say definitely go for the you interested because then you can,
28:23
SPEAKER_01: it opens up the door for so many other really awesome questions.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: So if they say no, then your other question is like, okay, cool.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, like,
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Based on the research that I did,
28:33
SPEAKER_01: duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, it looks like you might need this.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm really curious why this is a no.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And then see where that conversation leads you.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, the cold email is just a conversation.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: It's just like a,
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I saw this from the outside,
28:48
SPEAKER_01: which kind of feeds into this hypothesis that I think you might need help
28:52
SPEAKER_01: in this area.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Is this true?
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Are you interested?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to solve this problem?
28:58
SPEAKER_02: And more follow-up questions.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Shocking.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: And this is like, I have a follow up question about like, I'll say my second question.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: Are you familiar with Jeff Walker's product launch formula?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Marginally, like I'm on.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I've gotten some of his stuff, probably watch some of his work.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, they all have basically he was one of the OG godfathers of the marketing industry.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: And so his his is like an escalating commitment, like sort of like shielding his reciprocity.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Like the more you get them to say micro commitments,
29:28
SPEAKER_02: the more likely they're not going to say no.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Later, you're like, yes, I want to make more money.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I want to do this.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: And so it escalates.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: This is not what you're doing.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: You're actually having a conversation about truly qualifying through the sale conversation.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Is this a problem for you?
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes or no?
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Is this something that's urgent?
29:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes or no?
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Is this number one on your priority list to solve?
29:49
SPEAKER_02: And if it's not,
29:49
SPEAKER_02: I would imagine you're not asking escalating commitment questions
29:52
SPEAKER_02: to use influence tactics to get the sale.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: You're actually having a conversation like, Do you need to solve this right now?
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Is this the thing that's on your radar?
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes it's like, yes, I need to solve this.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: No, this is not my number one priority.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I would imagine you'd back off.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying you would back off, but that's not what we're doing here.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: We're not escalating commitment through persuasion techniques.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And I actually put those micro yeses into my email because I think of
30:21
SPEAKER_01: the initial email as kind of my whole argument for why they should say yes.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to I'm going to put as much proof points.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to put as many micro commitments into that email as possible.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I actually put those micro yeses in each line of their email
30:37
SPEAKER_01: that I'm sending them so that they are literally nodding along with me
30:41
SPEAKER_01: because I only have one question in that email, which is, are you interested?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: So I need them to say yes to that.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I am definitely teeing them up for a yes at the end of the email.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: But after they say yes, then I shift purely into sales.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: And qualification and like, is this the right fit?
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Because if it's not a right fit on their side, they're going to be like a red flag client.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And I do not have the energy or the time to work with a diva.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: I have three kids like I am not adding more kids to the fodder.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah,
31:15
SPEAKER_01: a lot of it is I'm I'm looking to prequalify like,
31:19
SPEAKER_01: hey, I made these basically researched assumptions about your business.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking to verify, are these true?
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Because that informs the next round of cold emails.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: And if they are true, then do you want to solve this problem?
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Then I've also qualified you as a client.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Does this work for selling B2C?
31:42
SPEAKER_02: So like executive coaching services, selling career transition, selling ADHD coaching, like...
31:50
SPEAKER_02: I feel like a business like you can see that stuff more from like the outside or is it B2C?
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: Like, could you do that or is that really not the play?
32:02
SPEAKER_01: It is the play.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: You can totally.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So I think of cold emails as like a fast burn lane and a slow burn lane.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: So the fast burn is a lot of the emails that we've been talking about.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Reaching out one to one to sign someone as a new client, new one to one private client.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: So that's like a cold sales email.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: But then in the slow burn lane,
32:21
SPEAKER_01: there's actually six other types of cold emails and pitching workshops is one
32:27
SPEAKER_01: of those and pitching collaborations,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: pitching podcasts,
32:31
SPEAKER_01: pitching referral relationships or JV webinars,
32:36
SPEAKER_01: sponsorships, all of these kinds of things.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Even getting like a quote from an expert to put as a testimonial or even
32:44
SPEAKER_01: in your blog post, like I reached out.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Years and years ago to Ryan Holiday to get like a quote for a blog post I was writing.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: I gave him like a very small window.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: It was totally a Hail Mary.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: And he replied back and said, so sorry, I missed the deadline.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: I would have loved to give you a quote, but I just wasn't able to get it to you in time.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's cool.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: That was that was my fault.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't I gave you like 48 hours notice.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: And but just to say, like, you can use it for B to C.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: And in fact,
33:16
SPEAKER_01: a client of mine was pitching workshops to companies to help their employees with,
33:25
SPEAKER_01: I think it was, what was she pitching?
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Like confidence in the workspace.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: And so the company would pay her to come in and do a workshop for them
33:35
SPEAKER_01: to help their minorities,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: actually their minority employees grow more confident and scale up
33:43
SPEAKER_01: into like C-suite projects.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: And stuff like that.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And so you can definitely do this.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: You're just shifting, like,
33:52
SPEAKER_01: just shifting the viewpoint slightly and looking for more,
33:56
SPEAKER_01: this is most likely what they're looking for versus like,
33:59
SPEAKER_01: this is the direct evidence that supports my hypothesis, if that makes sense.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: And what's your philosophy?
34:06
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you're familiar with like the public letters concept.
34:09
SPEAKER_02: So like,
34:10
SPEAKER_02: you know, like,
34:11
SPEAKER_02: The public letters is sort of like you take somebody who you either want to work
34:15
SPEAKER_02: with and you like Anna Reich did this for Jay Claus recently
34:20
SPEAKER_02: where she's like Jay talked about needing to wanting to hire and not make sure how
34:24
SPEAKER_02: to hire and Anna wrote like an entire Substack post which like based on what I know
34:28
SPEAKER_02: about you this is what I would do to solve this.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: I think someone did the same thing for like Justin Moore was saying
34:34
SPEAKER_02: or Justin Welsh back in the day was saying he had a problem
34:37
SPEAKER_02: and someone's like Here's how I would solve your problem.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: So he basically did free work.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: Nicholas Cole talks about, like,
34:42
SPEAKER_02: you publicly write something for somebody in order to,
34:45
SPEAKER_02: like, get them, like, land you as a ghostwriting client.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like you're doing the research and you're doing the prep,
34:50
SPEAKER_02: but instead of it being a one-to-one cold outreach,
34:53
SPEAKER_02: it's a public piece of content that someone's like,
34:56
SPEAKER_02: oh, they did that for that person and that's what it looks like?
34:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm curious if you're... that is at all...
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Part of your strategy or like something that you're like, oh, that sounds like a good idea.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: I should probably do that.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: I should probably like incorporate that somewhere.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: I think it sounds like a brilliant strategy.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I think personally, I don't use it.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: I like to,
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I veer more towards creating content that I can reuse again and again and again
35:22
SPEAKER_01: and again and again.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I have a talk that I've been putting on for seven-ish years
35:28
SPEAKER_01: and it just does really, really, really well.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm usually more on the line of,
35:34
SPEAKER_01: How do I create less content and then reuse the stuff I've already got?
35:39
SPEAKER_01: But I think that would be a fabulous idea.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think that you could
35:44
SPEAKER_01: then build like this whole awesome cold email strategy off the back of
35:48
SPEAKER_01: a public letter, basically.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And I've done that strategy where I've pulled someone's email example into
35:57
SPEAKER_01: a copyhacker's post that I wrote like eight years ago.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: And I pulled some people's email examples into different guest posts
36:07
SPEAKER_01: that I was publishing on like Kissmetrics and Crazy Egg.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: And then I emailed those people that I featured their email in and said,
36:16
SPEAKER_01: hey, I featured your email in this article.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious to hear your thoughts if you have any recommendations on edits
36:24
SPEAKER_01: or something like that.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: But generally, those people would share the article.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: So And then that gives me an in.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: That's like a little toe in the door where I can say, hey,
36:33
SPEAKER_01: like super curious,
36:35
SPEAKER_01: what are you doing about XYZ, about however it's related to my offer?
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Because basically what you're doing is how do I catch that big name's attention?
36:45
SPEAKER_01: And then how do I keep that kind of eye of Sauron for me long enough to figure out
36:51
SPEAKER_01: if they've got the problem and if they're interested in my type of solution
36:55
SPEAKER_01: to their problem?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: So I could see that working really well.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry,
37:00
SPEAKER_00: you just threw in how do I keep the eye of Sauron on me and then just like rolled
37:04
SPEAKER_00: over it and I'm sitting here just like in the back of my mind.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm in now the two towers.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: So I'm lost.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: I have former English major here.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Like I took a whole class on Tolkien in college.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it's super fun to like drop those little references in.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of work in, like, my programs around, like, what's your lexical fingerprint?
37:26
SPEAKER_00: What's your thing that you,
37:27
SPEAKER_00: what are the ways that you talk in the pop culture references that you include that,
37:31
SPEAKER_00: like, AI would never?
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: And I did, like, a big, like, Gandalf's a mentor.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: He's not a protagonist.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: We can't, we got to stop being Gandalf.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I've been thinking about Lord of the Rings a lot lately.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: And then what?
37:48
SPEAKER_02: So, you know,
37:49
SPEAKER_02: you and I,
37:50
SPEAKER_02: we all know that, like,
37:51
SPEAKER_02: when you send an email,
37:51
SPEAKER_02: even when we send an email to people that we know,
37:54
SPEAKER_02: like, the response is, like, 50-50 at best.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, they know you.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Legitimately, when you do your warm, cold outreach method...
38:05
SPEAKER_02: What's the response rate, like generally speaking off the first one?
38:10
SPEAKER_02: What's the,
38:10
SPEAKER_02: cause I think I took a Jess Lorimer,
38:13
SPEAKER_02: one of our former guests,
38:15
SPEAKER_02: I did her like cold outreach and hers was like very British, which was fun.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Cause I'm like, I'd be keen to understand.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, I can't say that cause I'm not keen.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: Cause I'm not, I'm not British.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: But hers was like the, you start to see an uptake around like email four or five.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious,
38:31
SPEAKER_02: like when,
38:32
SPEAKER_02: when you, when you send this out, like I'm assuming It's not 100% response rate.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: No, it's definitely not.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: And I would say if you're getting 100% response rate,
38:45
SPEAKER_01: I would wager that you've only sent like two emails.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: So you got to send some more reps. Usually.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I know that you like can't, what's the phrase?
38:55
SPEAKER_00: You can't like hit a ball that you never swing at or something.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, but look, I have 100% response rate.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Look at this conversion rate.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to mess with it.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: You gotta keep shooting.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: It's that quote.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: What is it?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Wayne Gretzky?
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but you get 100%.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: If you have 100% of the shots, then just, like, quit while you're ahead.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: I know.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: I know.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And to continue with the sports analogies, like,
39:19
SPEAKER_01: I think it's super interesting that Major League Baseball players miss 60% of
39:26
SPEAKER_01: the time when they're up to plate.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: And if you make 30% of the hits at the plate, you get into the Hall of Fame.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, 30% is actually winning.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: But to answer your actual question, Jessica, usually I'm seeing like 80% end conversions.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: So the thing I pitched in the email happens, ends up becoming reality.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: I usually get about a 46% positive reply rate.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: And that usually is happening not on the first email.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it happens.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: But more often than not, it's on the follow-ups.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's why the follow-ups are so important because the winning is really in the follow-ups.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And you can send, make sure, first of all, if you're sending follow-ups, please keep doing that.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: But also make sure that you're threading them in.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: So your original email is at the bottom because then you get that really lovely re
40:24
SPEAKER_01: in your subject line.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to pull any sneaky tricks to get it.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: It just happens naturally.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: And so, and then our brains are programmed to look for that re in our inboxes.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And so that I think is usually the point in time
40:39
SPEAKER_01: where someone starts paying attention to your email
40:41
SPEAKER_01: because their brain is literally pointing them towards your email because of
40:46
SPEAKER_01: that re.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: They might've missed it the first time,
40:49
SPEAKER_01: but now like they're thinking this person keeps emailing me.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: This email must be important to them.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: And if it's important to them, maybe I should see what's inside this email.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should actually like look at it because if it's important enough for them
41:05
SPEAKER_01: to follow up, it must be important enough for me to actually look at it.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: And that's usually where things.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm sounding so skeptical.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: You are.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: You're a hard one.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: I also have six different email accounts.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: I have two different podcasts.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm a novelist, and so I'm always getting these pitches that are completely just terrible.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: And the follow up,
41:30
SPEAKER_00: if you were to look at my other podcast,
41:33
SPEAKER_00: if you were to look at our inbox,
41:35
SPEAKER_00: literally half of those emails come in with the squiggly brackets
41:39
SPEAKER_00: that say preferred contact name.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: They don't even bother.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: And yet they are sending 10 to 12 emails in a sequence.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: And we just market as spam and move on because we don't even open them.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: So the volume.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: I was the one who opened your email and I completely missed it because it went to
42:00
SPEAKER_00: the wrong email address and I was like, oh shit.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the reality of it.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: But the good emails are very hard to filter out because there are so many bad emails out there.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: So I do agree with you that the follow-up is important, but...
42:18
SPEAKER_00: I also wonder if you have like a formula for your follow-up that you recommend.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, is this like a Fibonacci sequence?
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Is this just like every week?
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, how frequently are you planning your follow-up?
42:29
SPEAKER_00: And like,
42:30
SPEAKER_00: do you have that pre-written because you know
42:33
SPEAKER_00: that follow-up three is like just saying,
42:36
SPEAKER_00: hey, can you just check on this email that I sent?
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any thoughts?
42:39
SPEAKER_00: Or is each one of those personalized and customized in its own way?
42:44
SPEAKER_01: That sounds exhausting to personalize and customize each.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: The short answer is I actually invented execution software to handle the follow ups
42:53
SPEAKER_01: for me because I was dropping the ball so frequently on follow ups.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And I have like a proven follow up sequence that is that just works really well.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: So I would just be literally sitting there for an hour in Gmail,
43:07
SPEAKER_01: like copy pasting on the follow ups.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: And to my brain, that sounds like hell on Earth.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I would drop follow ups a lot.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: I would lose opportunities because I wasn't following up.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: So I built some software to help me.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's like legit software.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not like a clod pack,
43:25
SPEAKER_01: you know,
43:26
SPEAKER_01: like we all say software,
43:28
SPEAKER_01: but it's actually just a handful of prompts and custom GPTs.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: But this is actual software so that you can have those follow ups get sent out automatically.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: But I think, Meg, like the deeper question is, is that you're actually scanning Yes.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Which is totally true because you have a lot of stuff going on.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's true of any marketing strategy too.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that that's email specific or even cold email specific.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: I think that even when you're scanning,
44:06
SPEAKER_00: like when I'm scanning through my inbox, I'm going, what's important?
44:09
SPEAKER_00: What needs a reply?
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Who do I know?
44:11
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything important that I miss?
44:13
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I do miss important things because I just have such volume coming in all the time.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: And I do miss opportunities.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: But also like if I had to screen every opportunity...
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Then I would spend half my day in my inbox going through half my day.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Maybe like I could probably spend a half an hour a day screening emails, you know?
44:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So you're actually looking for things in the email to make it easier for you
44:38
SPEAKER_01: to delete, like improperly filled out from names, a sketchy looking from email.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: So I would say to that,
44:46
SPEAKER_01: like pay attention to those tickers,
44:49
SPEAKER_01: those like little red flags that you're actively looking for and then do
44:52
SPEAKER_01: the opposite because actually The thing about the rise in shitty cold emails is
44:59
SPEAKER_01: that they set the bar so low,
45:02
SPEAKER_01: so freaking low,
45:03
SPEAKER_01: that you only have to change a handful of those things
45:07
SPEAKER_01: to make your cold email stand out.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: And even in this age of like swamped inboxes and AI dominated content,
45:15
SPEAKER_01: you can still make your email stand out by simply looking like a human in the inbox.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've had this conversation.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, Jessica, we've been doing this for a year and a half.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like every two months or so,
45:27
SPEAKER_00: I guess,
45:27
SPEAKER_00: brings this up to where it's like the bar is so low that it's almost doing you
45:34
SPEAKER_00: a favor of like you don't have to be the most superb thing out there.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: You just have to be like significantly better than average.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: You probably just have to like do the bare minimum of what is expected of you as
45:47
SPEAKER_00: a human to another human and expecting their time and attention.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Just basically the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: So would you want to get like...
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Spam others the way you want to be spammed.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: That's the pro marketer.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: The golden spam rule.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: I tell you, man, though, like, I know, Meg, you don't read all of your cold outreach.
46:08
SPEAKER_02: I do read all of my cold outreach.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: Do you?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: God bless you.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't read the ones that actually go to spam.
46:14
SPEAKER_02: So, like, you know, if you go to spam, I'm not reading it.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: I try to rescue people from spam, but I don't open it if it's gone to spam.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: But, like, Laura's email, I was, you know, kind of, I was like, Meg, we have to decide.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: But I read it.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: Someone's, like, asked me if they would Put their my resource or their resource in my emails.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, send me a copy of your resource.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, what in God's good name is this?
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Pick your audience, which was like they sent me like a PDF.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: They sent me a for the romance podcast.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: I have gotten a full 300 page novel PDF attachment.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you you don't know me.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's something like, like they, they did actually lower your, like close to your formula.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: They're like, they mean, dropped a name who I would know.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: And like, I went to their website and it was like, hold on.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: I have to pull it up.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: This is the pop-up only works.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: If y'all know me, are you ready to lead an authentically empowered life as the queen?
47:21
SPEAKER_02: The world needs the primary offer right on the homepage is
47:25
SPEAKER_02: the queen anointing three, three, three, three value gift.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like wrong audience.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: But I read the email.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: Good for you, not for me, babe.
47:38
SPEAKER_00: Good for you, not for me.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm like,
47:40
SPEAKER_02: I think you've nailed,
47:41
SPEAKER_02: you maybe, you didn't quite nail the qualification on this, but I read the email.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: I looked it up.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: There are times where I want to reply because someone gets so close to a good pitch,
47:56
SPEAKER_00: and then they just don't.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: Don't stick the landing.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, is this worth my time to teach someone in this way?
48:02
SPEAKER_00: Especially like podcast pitching services will do an excellent job of saying, hi,
48:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm Laura and I love your podcast and I listened to the last three episodes
48:11
SPEAKER_00: and I love the way you did this.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: And don't you want to interview this random bro?
48:14
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, baby.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so
48:17
SPEAKER_01: there's like,
48:18
SPEAKER_01: they don't stick the landing, like basically in a, it almost sounds like in a segue.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: Like a bridge, like here's my first idea, here's my pitch, and I just didn't.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Here's what I like about your podcast.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: Here's what you have done incredibly well.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Here's what you have, what we could, what I think is interesting that you are doing.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: And now don't you want to interact?
48:39
SPEAKER_00: You spent so much time on this and then you didn't, you had me until the ask.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: I think that is actually the AI coming into play,
49:08
SPEAKER_01: to be honest with you,
49:09
SPEAKER_01: where they're pointing their AI at you and saying,
49:13
SPEAKER_01: research Meg and tell me some really cool people that she's had on our podcast.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I'm just going to slice that chunk right into the top of my email.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not actually going to read the email to make sure Flo and that kind of thing works.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Which is a huge miss because like you said,
49:31
SPEAKER_01: it's just one bridge sentence to connect those two ideas.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, you had cool guests.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: I think you really like this other cool person.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Meet Jeremy, blah, blah.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: Right?
49:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of all it needs.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: But I don't think people, I think a lot of people are still stuck in that more is better.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't think that.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think in that case,
49:55
SPEAKER_00: some of them are like PR agencies that say,
49:57
SPEAKER_00: well, we pitched 10 podcasts for you this month.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: It's not that hard.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: How many did you land?
50:03
SPEAKER_01: No many.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: It's not that hard to write 10 good pitches.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: It's well, it is hard and it's time consuming, but it's not hard.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: It's it takes time, but there's a process to it.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: If you want to learn more.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: Tell the listeners where they can find out more.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: Tell the folks at home how they can win.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: The good folks at home, listen up.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: Go to lauralopez.com and put your email.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: Get on my email list.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: That's where I like to send my best stuff.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely not very social on social media.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: Pretty strong views on social media.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: But I love to share my good stuff on email.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's where you will get all the goodies.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:47
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: And so now we close it out with what's being Aggressively Human.
50:52
SPEAKER_02: Meg, I'll turn it over to you.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Give Laura a break.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: We'll give you a bit of a chance to drink some water, Laura.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: So last month or two months ago,
51:01
SPEAKER_00: I got a cold outreach pitch on LinkedIn and it was somebody from
51:06
SPEAKER_00: a fashion designer organization.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, have you seen my wardrobe?
51:11
SPEAKER_00: I literally am wearing hoodies that I bought in high school.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I am not the right person if you're talking to fashion designers or anyone in
51:18
SPEAKER_00: the fashion industry,
51:19
SPEAKER_00: but they wanted me to come do a workshop about AI discoverability and stuff.
51:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I'll go look at the website.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm happy to do it.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: When do you want to schedule it?
51:28
SPEAKER_00: So on and so forth.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: And I said,
51:29
SPEAKER_00: as long as you don't mind that I'm going to not know anything about your industry
51:33
SPEAKER_00: and show up in the same black t-shirt that I wear to everything.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay.
51:37
SPEAKER_00: Set the bar nice and low in terms of their expectations.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: And then I showed up.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: And the person who was hosting it introduced me and said,
51:47
SPEAKER_00: this is Meg from the Aggressively Human podcast.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: And that was the first time that I'd really heard that.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Allison, because she's a listener.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: And she had worked with her team and they said, we need, we had a lot of questions about SEO.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: And she said, well,
52:00
SPEAKER_00: it's not really SEO anymore because I heard on this podcast,
52:03
SPEAKER_00: we should just reach out to Meg.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my God.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think sometimes we forget that our message is traveling and And
52:11
SPEAKER_00: that there are people who are listening and learning from us and that
52:14
SPEAKER_00: then they can do the cold outreach,
52:17
SPEAKER_00: even if they're not the ones doing the direct outreach because that's not their role
52:20
SPEAKER_00: on the team.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: And it was such a delightful workshop because she had shared some of my resources
52:29
SPEAKER_00: and episodes with people beforehand.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: So I came in to do the training, but they were already warm to my work.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: She was like, okay, I'm coming prepared because I know Meg's body of work.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: And so I just get so excited when those cold,
53:01
SPEAKER_00: I saved that for this episode to talk about because I get really excited when
53:05
SPEAKER_00: the cold outreach is so well done.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: So there's my Aggressively Human is when you show up and go, oh,
53:13
SPEAKER_00: I was ready for cold and it was warmer than I expected and it made me feel great as
53:18
SPEAKER_00: a guest and as an expert.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was lovely.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: Laura, what is Aggressively Human in your world right now?
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess I have two.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: To tail off of yours, Meg,
53:32
SPEAKER_01: it was super fun to come on here and then hear Jessica say,
53:36
SPEAKER_01: I've heard you talk on Jeremy's stuff and this workshop from a year and a half ago
53:42
SPEAKER_01: or whenever it was,
53:44
SPEAKER_01: and we just have kind of been orbiting each other's worlds,
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Jessica and I, and I had no idea.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: She knew.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: She just didn't let me know before now.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: Like secretly has her eye on everyone.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: She's like the panopticon in the middle of the prison
53:59
SPEAKER_00: where she's just like watching everyone and what they're up to.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: But I love that.
54:06
SPEAKER_01: It's so much fun.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: Like I love doing like podcast interviews and partnerships and teaching
54:12
SPEAKER_01: because like you said,
54:13
SPEAKER_01: like your message has like all these little legs and then it goes off into the world
54:17
SPEAKER_01: and it creates like all these little fans sometimes.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: And then you are connected.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Through all these little tendrils, we're all like a little forest, right?
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Like all of our roots are interconnected.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: But for the more Aggressively Human,
54:30
SPEAKER_01: I would say I'm actually doing outreach to my own email list.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: And like,
54:36
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really weird idea,
54:38
SPEAKER_01: but I've been doing kind of monthly and weekly trainings for
54:44
SPEAKER_01: the last like six months.
54:47
SPEAKER_01: I haven't been getting many sales from them.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: So I started to diagnose the problem.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm actually reaching out to people on my own email list and saying, hey, I noticed XYZ.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: Basically using my own methodology,
55:00
SPEAKER_01: but in a much warmer situation,
55:03
SPEAKER_01: using a lot of data that I have based on how they've clicked
55:06
SPEAKER_01: and what they've filled out and backend data and all that kind of stuff.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: And then sending one-on-one outreach emails to them to see what's their problem.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: How can I help them?
55:18
SPEAKER_01: Based on these signals that you've given me,
55:20
SPEAKER_01: it looks like you're still struggling getting clients.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: Is this still the case?
55:24
SPEAKER_01: And so it's been a really interesting experiment.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Because then it's not cold.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: They already are used to seeing your name in the inbox.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: And then when they get something personalized, it's like, oh, she's paying attention.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:37
SPEAKER_02: So we'll see how it goes.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Jessica, what is Aggressively Human for you?
55:41
SPEAKER_02: So you've all heard my window saga of leaky windows.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: So...
55:46
SPEAKER_02: Apparently, so now they sealed up the window.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: I still have a leak in one of them.
55:49
SPEAKER_02: But now the way they sealed it has left a drip when it's like at the end of the rain.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: So now I've got to get them to come back.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm like, because they sealed up something.
55:58
SPEAKER_02: Water must have been getting in there.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: So now there's like a concentrated drip.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: And I had to go downstairs to sleep on the couch last night because we had the big boom booms.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: And my dog was up at like two in the morning and then the rain stopped.
56:08
SPEAKER_02: But then I had the drip and I'm like,
56:11
SPEAKER_00: I can't do it.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: Got to figure out.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: I got to figure out how to get this fixed because the fixed caused the drip
56:18
SPEAKER_02: and I can't handle the drip.
56:20
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah,
56:24
SPEAKER_00: my dog is also like somewhat afraid of thunder,
56:26
SPEAKER_00: but the room that he can open the door to is to my eight year old's room.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: So he'll come in,
56:31
SPEAKER_00: but only when it's thundering and the eight year old be like,
56:33
SPEAKER_00: shut the door, keep him in here.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm like the poor, the poor dog.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Laura, for being here today.
56:40
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, listener, for joining us for this conversation.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: And join us again next week where we will continue to have a conversation about how
56:47
SPEAKER_00: to stay human in the age of AI.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: See you then.