Latest / The Myth of Education Podcast / Ep. 26 | Higher Education Myths & Facts w/ Dr. Owen Anderson

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Ep. 26 | Higher Education Myths & Facts w/ Dr. Owen Anderson · The Myth of Education Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to The Myth of Education Podcast,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: where we expose corruption, advocate for student safety, and defend parental rights.
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• 0:09
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  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into our discussion, we'd like to thank our sponsor, Sapling CRM.
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• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have with me today my co-host Dan Grossenbach and we would like to welcome Dr.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Owen Anderson,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: he joined the ASU staff in 2018 after earning five degrees from the college,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: including a PhD in philosophy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: He teaches in the School of Humanities, Arts and Cultural Studies at the West Campus.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's also an affiliate faculty in the Center of the Study of Religion and Conflict.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Dr. Anderson, welcome to The Myth of Education Podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So glad to talk with you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I've followed both of you and love the work you're doing,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: so I'm glad to get to be a part of that.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we spotted you right away too.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: You and I have had some conversations in the past about the things going on at ASU.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to Take this time to sit and talk with you
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: because we're normally following K through 12 education.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's good for us to bring our attention to what's going on with higher ed
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: as well, because that's where the K through 12 kids are going to be heading.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: All that and also the teachers for the K through 12 come through
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: the teacher colleges at universities.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you can sort of anticipate What are the next five or 10 years of curriculum going
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: to look like based on what they're being taught this fall?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start by saying ASU is notorious,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: in my opinion,
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  SPEAKER_00: for violating First Amendment and pushing DEI racism on its employees and students.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it has a terrible reputation for that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's one of the biggest schools in the state of Arizona.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So parents and young Young adults, they keep choosing this school.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: But what can you tell us about your experience with those DEI requirements as a professor?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: being mindful of any litigation that may be going on,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: not revealing too much that might hurt your case.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and ASU is the largest state university,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: not just in Arizona,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: but in the country with 200,000 students across four campuses and really globally
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: in introducing me.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've been at ASU teaching since 2000.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: I became a full professor in 2018.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been here a long time.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen it from every level of undergraduate to graduate to teacher assistant
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: to faculty associate to lecturer to professor.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got I've got the inside perspective on all these levels.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right to say it's it's It's been taken over by this DEI intersectionality ideology.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so ASU,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: it has a mixed record because it'll say from the highest levels
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: that it's pro-First Amendment and every view can be debated at ASU.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: However,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: the Honors College at ASU was successful in keeping Charlie Kirk and Dennis Prager
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: and Robert Kiyosaki from speaking at the Honors College.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: They were allowed to speak at ASU, but they were banned.
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  SPEAKER_02: And the reason the professors gave,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: they wrote a letter,
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  SPEAKER_02: and in a letter they said,
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  SPEAKER_02: Dennis Prager and Robert Kiyosaki are white nationalist bigots.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: Robert Kiyosaki, he's not a white nationalist, bigot, doesn't qualify.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I told Dennis Prager about this and he laughed and said,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: yeah, I've been called a lot of things, but never a white nationalist.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so what's ASU thinking, letting that happen and keeping them from speaking?
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  SPEAKER_02: And then in my own case,
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  SPEAKER_02: I currently have a case,
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  SPEAKER_02: as you hinted at this,
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm represented by the Goldwater Institute here in Arizona against ASU
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  SPEAKER_02: because we had required DEI training.
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  SPEAKER_02: And the way this is presented to To the public is sort of like training on how
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: to get along with people you disagree with because ASU is a big place.
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  SPEAKER_02: You're going to meet lots of different people and that's certainly true.
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  SPEAKER_02: But it became like something out of an early episode of The Office
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  SPEAKER_02: where you're being trained with this stuff that you wonder, is this a joke?
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  SPEAKER_02: Is this serious?
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  SPEAKER_02: It's aimed at the problem of whiteness and the problem of- And that's in the paperwork.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: I took screenshots as part of court record.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is what ASU was asking me to sit through.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so we're headed to the Arizona Supreme Court on September 1st.
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  SPEAKER_02: Our case currently has to do with if I even have standing.
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  SPEAKER_02: Will I even get my day in court to present my case?
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  SPEAKER_02: Because ASU immediately hired Perkins Coey.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was best known as Hillary Clinton's law firm for the Russia dossier thing back in 2016.
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  SPEAKER_02: So very far left political agenda law firm.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they hired Perkins Coley not to defend their DEI,
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  SPEAKER_02: but to keep me out of court and say I don't have standing.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now, we're suing underneath Arizona law.
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  SPEAKER_02: And the two legislators who wrote our law, both, they wrote an amicus brief for my case.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they said, Professor Anderson is exactly who should be able to bring a case.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so the initial court agreed with me in Goldwater.
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  SPEAKER_02: The appeals court agreed with ASU.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so now we're asking the Arizona Supreme Court to weigh in.
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  SPEAKER_02: If we win,
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  SPEAKER_02: we immediately get to Proceed to trial and put administrators under oath
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  SPEAKER_02: and ask them questions under oath about DEI.
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  SPEAKER_02: Might be a reason why they don't want this case to proceed.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: If we lose, this is a major blow to employees
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  SPEAKER_02: throughout the state.
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  SPEAKER_02: Because if I lose here,
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  SPEAKER_02: every state employee loses the ability to take a state institution And
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: so this is bigger than just Professor Anderson.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: You said something really interesting, Dr. Anderson.
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  SPEAKER_01: You said that the university isn't as worried about DEI as they are the liability.
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  SPEAKER_01: And being part of a lawsuit against a university myself and the same board
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  SPEAKER_01: of regents,
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  SPEAKER_01: I've seen that The lawyers seem to be a little bit of the puppet masters behind
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  SPEAKER_01: the president and the board.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it almost seems to me that it's not so ideological for them.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're tempted to think universities are leftist radicals, and a lot of them are.
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  SPEAKER_01: But when it gets to I have to ask myself,
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  SPEAKER_01: are they just blowing with the wind of the path of least resistance and trying
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  SPEAKER_01: to protect at all costs their own preservation at the advice of counsel,
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  SPEAKER_01: legal counsel, or are they ideologues?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it a combination?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious what your take is on it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: You could say there's levels.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so there's the professor level where I think you just have the ideologues doing their thing.
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  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the administration level.
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  SPEAKER_02: And there might be the middle management who's just above the professors who deal
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  SPEAKER_02: with them on a daily basis who are also ideologues.
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  SPEAKER_02: And that's who's mostly in charge of hiring.
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  SPEAKER_02: But then the upper administration, I think that's what you're describing now.
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  SPEAKER_02: And they'll be careful to run everything by the lawyers of their university,
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  SPEAKER_02: double check language, but they're doing it in order to push their agenda through.
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  SPEAKER_02: So in other words,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's not either or,
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  SPEAKER_02: it's just that that higher level also has lawyers to say,
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  SPEAKER_02: well, because of the Trump EO, don't say this, say this.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so independent of me,
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  SPEAKER_02: the DOJ has opened an investigation into ASU in June,
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  SPEAKER_02: just last month,
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  SPEAKER_02: over this exact thing,
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  SPEAKER_02: because ASU administrators five Five separate instances,
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  SPEAKER_02: five separate administrators got caught on secret camera.
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  SPEAKER_02: The person filming asked them, you know, and said, hey, I really care about DEI.
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  SPEAKER_02: Does ASU still do DEI?
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  SPEAKER_02: And they basically said, don't tell the press, but yes, we do.
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  SPEAKER_02: We just changed the name.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I already knew that because both I'm on the inside and I also keep a Substack
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  SPEAKER_02: if everyone watching wants to go to Dr. Owen Anderson.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: The main purpose of my substack,
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  SPEAKER_02: like 90% of it, is just reporting on the public web pages or public media.
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  SPEAKER_02: Material given by ASU so it's out there.
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  SPEAKER_02: So someone like the DOJ can go to my Substack as a research point.
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  SPEAKER_02: It has my opinion sometimes, but I often don't have to even say anything.
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  SPEAKER_02: My most recent one was just doing a screen recording,
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  SPEAKER_02: going through the Mary Lou Fulton Teachers I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go further than ASU.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you were an expert in this area and you wanted to just talk about all
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  SPEAKER_01: the DEI encroaching into the university, you don't have to go any further than ASU.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, they keep popping up in national news stories.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have all the fodder you need right there, unfortunately.
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  SPEAKER_01: And Tiffany, this seems just like the K-12 arena.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's no daylight between what we see here in the administrative ranks of
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  SPEAKER_01: the university and the K-12 boardroom.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the resources on K-12 and college level are endless as well.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so what you're up against, Dr. Anderson, is similar to what a parent would be up against.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: These organizations are pretty huge and it makes you wonder if...
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  SPEAKER_00: If the truth can truly be gotten to.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully,
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  SPEAKER_00: a lot of this information is recorded in their own paperwork and
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: in their own policies and requirements.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we have a lot of don't believe your lying eyes that goes on.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I would be interested in how they would end up flipping this if this does go to trial.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what excuse they would have for not at least making a commitment to remove that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's why this one of my slogan has become is worse than you think,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: because every now and then a parent will tell me,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: you know, come on, Owen, we all know no one sends their kid to ASU.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: This is not just a crazy Marxist, you know, Bernie Sanders here or there.
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  SPEAKER_02: This is every professor you meet has bought into this with few exceptions.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so part of my work as a philosopher is to ask the question how that happened,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: because the universities generally had some ideological diversity.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when I was a student,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: it was still mostly atheist professors, but our class wasn't about that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so So it might come up or you might be able to kind of tell,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: but they didn't make the whole class about their personal beliefs and forcing
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: the rest of us to learn about that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: We could write papers on things.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote tons of papers against atheism to atheist professors,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: and my papers were graded on the merits of the paper, not on you disagree.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with my personal beliefs.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So something changed from when I was an undergraduate.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this weird back and forth that I noticed among faculty,
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  SPEAKER_02: which is on the one hand,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: we don't have to pretend like we're diverse anymore and intellectually diverse
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: to we better clamp down and protect our universities
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: against these terrifying MAGA people, which means anybody to the right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because someone could say I'm a Republican and I don't like Trump either.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't matter.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Multiculturalism in the past was something that ASU had introduced as a study under
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: the guise of respect all cultures.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then around the time of 2016,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: when everybody's brains broke,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was when you were telling me in the past
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  SPEAKER_00: that it seemed like something switched.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And would it be fair to say ideologically that multiculturalism now
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: at ASU really means anti-white, anti-West, anti-Christian?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the ideology?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have that curriculum?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's literally the paperwork, the material I was forced to sit through.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: I took screen recordings of it.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, people say that's not true.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: I got the screen recordings about anti-whiteness, anti-Christian DEI training.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we as employees were asked to sit through that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the questions that ASU's lawyers ask Well,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: the punishment is me sitting through it,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: which would be true for anyone else who's not a white male Christian.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you force anyone else to sit through required state training about Right.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to have universities that have lots of different people.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: We need to respect each other's viewpoints.
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  SPEAKER_02: One of the things I teach in philosophy is you got to be able to present
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: the other person's view to them in a way where they will say, yes, you got it right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's continue.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you haven't misrepresented them.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: But it's flipped, as you said, to now it's like, no, there's a specific bad guy in the group.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, it's multiculturalism,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: but there's this one particular bad guy and it's white Christian males.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I make a joke because I say the white Christian male that every leftist hates
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: the most in the country is Clarence Thomas.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not actually about white Christian males.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's about biblical doctrines.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And Clarence Thomas drives him nuts because he holds to that stuff.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can I get some clarity on something that you said
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: that could be really potentially scary if I understood it right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is that you're telling me that a lot of these millennials,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: these Gen Zs,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: these Gen Alphas that are coming into the university are spiritually hungry
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: and there is food for them.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's leftist activism, radical food that they're consuming.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're a K through 12 parent,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: and there's a lot of those listening out there,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: they're freaked out with the prospects of sending their kids to college.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Where are the Christians there?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Friends at Ratio Christi and other ministries that are bold defenders of
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: the Christian worldview and are there for that feeding trough of real nourishment,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: spiritual nourishment.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: How can we support Christians and give them the food that they should be consuming
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: in the university?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's one of the reasons I've spoken up.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you had to tell me what's the one group on your mind when you speak up,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's Christian students because they're being forced to sit through this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're being abused by their professors and they're being asked to face
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: a moral dilemma because many of them want to go on to professional work,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: which means they need a good GPA.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But to get a good GPA, they're going to have to lie.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a horrible place to put anybody.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: No one should be in that situation.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say some administrator somewhere takes all of this to heart and says, you know what?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not changing my views, but I'm going to start living consistently with them.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because what I've been telling everyone is we should have faculty that look like
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: the communities they serve.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And a large majority of our community is Christian.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we need professors to Right.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: The only option is that professors confess what they've done is wrong and stop doing it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: If we'd have to start today and say to people,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: you can go to graduate school, you'll be protected from Marxism.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: You can be a conservative Christian,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: but that will take six years at least to get the beginnings of that group coming
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: through graduate school.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in terms of parents, what I tell parents is know your child.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I would argue with professors.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was always respectful, but I wasn't going to just believe whatever they told me.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Some kids are a little more credulous and they'll just maybe be bent by Willpower of
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: the professors.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: You got to know your kids.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: But if you prepare your kids,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: if you've told them ahead of time how bad it is,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: that's like the main part of the battle.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because the kids I've seen that come to college and they get their faith destroyed,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: they had no idea.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: They come out of Sunday school or youth group in high school and they thought maybe
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: the big battle was still evolution or something.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're all ready for the evolution debate.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's an important debate and I'll put it down.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I haven't heard that debate on campus in a decade plus.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Then they get into a history class and they're told, oh, you're a Christian.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: You guys invented slavery and perpetuated it throughout the world.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they had never heard that before.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So simply tell your kids,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: you as parents need to know the most updated ammo the Marxists are using and
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: then prepare your kids for it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So they're ready.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: And when they hear that, they say, oh, yeah, I know.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: My parents told me about that.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's ridiculous.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to just assume that everybody knows this, especially kids.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can't unknow what a 49-year-old male knows,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know, a parent for, you know, years and years.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Your teenager is going into this, you know, possibly thinking it's going to be just, oh, okay.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: You might have gone through boot camp 25,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: 30 years ago,
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: and they're using this sort of attack, but you got to know what's current.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, ASU is openly Marxist.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a fair statement?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: A top administration is going to say, of course not.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: We love the Bill of Rights.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're all for free speech and we let everybody debate on campus.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And ASU, the upper administration has done that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they did still let the Dennis Prager or Charlie Kirk event go forward.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: They still let us use their basketball stadium without charging the student club.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: They gave us security.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: They'll generally let anybody meet on campus as long as you'll,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: there might be some insurance things you need to cover.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're a very unpopular viewpoint, they'll still let you meet on campus.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So at one level, they'll do that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of the professors,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: most of the humanities professors I've talked to would say, yeah, I'm a Marxist.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: The other group will say, I'm not.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll say, okay, so what is your view?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll say, well,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I believe that all of history is a conflict between the capitalist owners and
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: the workers.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that this conflict can only be resolved I say, wait, you're just quoting the Marxist.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean you're not a Marxist?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Marxists, those ended in the 1920s, like some other version of it, right?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it'd be like me saying, I'm not a Christian, I'm a Presbyterian.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe everyone should take note of this.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: For mass communication and propaganda, you want a very simple and memorizable slogan.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then you want to address the problem of the age group you're dealing with.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the students,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: not all of them,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: but a lot of them are still the And
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: so what these Marxist professors have done very well is they've explained
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: the problem of the world in simple terms.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: There are oppressors and there are the oppressed.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's pretty easy to remember.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll point out some empirical evidence.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: We'll look around you.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think anyone gets to be a trillionaire without oppressing people?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, probably they don't.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, there you go.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas Christianity and really the older academic, he's a little more nuanced.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's view number one.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's view number two.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's view number three.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to get lost if you're not an academic.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas a Marxist just come in and say, no, there's just one view.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: The rich are oppressors.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they get their money.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: They get their wealth unfairly.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's just so sad because we have an awesome narrative as Christians.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we also, it happens to be true.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It can be packaged in just an appealing way.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not happening, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need to do it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: that's the thing is it's a good call for us to step up to the plate and do that
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: because we have the better message for sure because it's true.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's reality.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that Augustine you were just talking about?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: My new PragerU video came out on Augustine.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: This video came about because I was talking with the producer
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: about how high mental health statistics are.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Never before this high at our universities and the university professors
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: and administrators are scratching them.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: What is the solution to this?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm not suggesting it's overly simple because there's physical sides of this,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: there's genetic sides of this, but there's certainly a spiritual side.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no doubt about that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so they'll address the other things, but they won't address the spiritual side.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we used to get that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as an undergraduate, I got it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Even in philosophy,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: even in secular ASU philosophy classes,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: we studied books that address this issue,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: and they gave an answer that is more satisfying than the Marxist dialectic.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so my video is about Augustine because he wrestles with this.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: He talks about being very depressed and very anxious.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then he says, the only thing that freed me from my anxiety was Christ.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Augustine had this quote, and maybe I'm paraphrasing it now, but love God and do as you will.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you just put your focus in the right place and you focus on
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: the ultimate source of goodness and you align yourself with that,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: do whatever you want because you'll be aligned with the good.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, exactly.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Once you start serving God, I would agree with that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Your want to will change.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Your will will conform.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's probably a fine line, right,
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: between teaching it from a philosophical perspective versus teaching it
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: from your personal experience.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: There seems like there would be a fine line between that,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: and you'd be accused of maybe proselytizing or trying to convert someone.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're state employees.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're mandated to do an annual review of our work to justify the taxpayers.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Why do we keep these guys around?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I did my review in March for 2025.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And my school has a rubric where you look at the rubric
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: and you have activities you did for teaching, research, and service.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you get points based on different things you did,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: like you wrote a book or a peer-reviewed journal article,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: or you taught an extra class, whatever it is.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then you add up your points.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And those points tell you if you got a one through five, five being the best.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote my report.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the rubric tells me I got fives in all three areas, teaching, research, and service.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I always try to be excellent.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Ace, you can't ever say,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: well, he just complains because he's He's on the cusp of being cut anyway.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I got back the official report.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: The dean looks it over and has to stamp it and send the official numbers in.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was reduced in my teaching from five to four.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that's still a good score.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like three is doing your job.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're three, four or five, you're fine.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: We get a little tiny bit of merit pay.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: So a five to a four, I'll lose a couple hundred bucks.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not the issue.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: The issue is why?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: The reason given.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason given is that my classes are too Christian.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: I had to object to the first level as our director of my school.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it gets bumped up to our dean.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And my dean replied,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: and he gave me five questions from two of my classes that he said are proof
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: that my classes are too Christian.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the problem is that none of these questions were Christian per se.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: One of them is Platonic, one of them is Ricitilian, one of them is from Viktor Frankl.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: You should tell him he was too Christian, right?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, Holocaust survivor, probably not too Christian.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote back again, I said,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: well, that doesn't prove anything because they're not actually
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Christian per se.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's five out of all my questions.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's not even good sampling.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like to be too Christian,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: wouldn't you need to show me that the majority
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: of my questions are Christian questions?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: So he never responded.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to bump it up as currently before ASU's HR,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: because this is a big deal going forward for all faculty on top of that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: What I did for ASU's HR is I compiled about 50 pages of email proof showing
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: that I've been repeatedly told by my school administrators
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: to decolonize my curriculum,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: all of us, the whole school, not just uniquely me, and to make it anti-racist.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: maybe you should tell us, what kind of classes do you teach?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: I teach philosophy and religion studies.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So these two classes were, one was called philosophical studies of death and dying.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the other one was from my introduction to ethics class.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So in my ethics class, we go over 10 secular ethical theories.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we also go over theistic ethics.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's one to 10.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so society and religion is going to be woven in.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my death and dying class,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I go 100% off of the catalog description because this is sensitive topics.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: We study both the Old and New Testament.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: I actually spend more time in the Jewish scriptures than I do the New Testament.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: But we also go over the Greeks.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: We go over Hinduism and Buddhism.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: We go over secular therapy approaches to death.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I go over all of that in my class, but I was told my class is weighted toward Christianity.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: The only other evidence they gave besides those five quiz questions was
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: a student comment in one of my evaluations.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the student said,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciated Professor Anderson,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: but if I was a Hindu, I might have a problem with this class.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: No elaboration.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a double hypothetical, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not offended, but if hypothetically, if I was a Hindu, I might be.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought about this,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: and actually a lawyer pointed this out to me,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: that comment is And so that one comment doesn't prove anything except for
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: the student is oblivious.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, are you even getting any teaching done?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you having to put out these fires?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it seems to me that anything you say at this point is going to be just cause
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: for the university to come to you and to want to correct a behavior.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Basically,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: if what you're telling us is true,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: and this is all we have to go by,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested in getting anybody else's perspective if they are anti-Christian,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't understand how you're able to even continue doing your job and
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: If this is what you're up against.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Professor is actually a research title.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a uniquely held title for people who are what we call full professor.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's other kinds of ways you'd be hired to teach at ASU.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: You might be just an associate.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been that before,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: which means you're hired for one And then there are people who are giving lecturing
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: or what's called, they just changed the name to professors of practice.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Substack, The Myth of Education Podcast, mythofeducation.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get tenure, no one's going to hire you.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you do get tenure, you're now an associate professor.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of professors just stay there their whole life.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: So tenured professors,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: the idea being you can research whatever you want without interference from
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: the outside.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Politics or anything will protect you from everything.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: If your research is unpopular, it will protect you.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: But they've hired so ideologically that no one will do that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: So there are some ways to get rid of me.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the other problem.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of ways to make someone's life miserable at work
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: that you can't put down on paper for a judge.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's more what I go through.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have to waste hours of my life writing up a report because I'm a Christian.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I teach in Marxist dialectic next to me.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: He just goes on summer break.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't get harassed.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but when you're teaching in the university,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: for them to say you're being too Christian or your class is too Christian,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: that's flirting with a free speech realm there too.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, None of us here on the panel are lawyers,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: but I think that even if you're an adjunct like I was or an associate,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: you're protected from your own beliefs.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're trying to proselytize or you're trying to convince them
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: of spiritual truths,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: that might be different, but I don't think you're anywhere in that realm.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: They just don't like it, right?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is, does it get tiring?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think Tiffany mentioned earlier,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: have you ever thought of why are you staying in such a hostile environment?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you are.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know what you mean, though.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Human motivation.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've had professors tell me,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: you know, hostile professors say, Anderson, if you hate ASU so much, just go to GCU.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And just think about saying that to anybody else.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, say, let's say there was a black lesbian who's feeling uncomfortable at work.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And a professor says, you know what?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: You should go to.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's some university that they think would be better.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Lawsuit.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we have the same thing in the K through 12.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm asked the same thing.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have kids in public school.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: They say, Dan, why don't you just go to the private school where they believe like you?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're from a Judeo-Christian heritage here and we had this first.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you should be asking yourself that question.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Arizona State University was founded.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's in our constitution that the state is required to provide university education
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: to the citizens of Arizona at an affordable rate.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been litigated too.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's in our constitution.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm defending the fact that our taxpayers have a right to an R1 as
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: a research one level university at an affordable cost for their children.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not fair that it's been taken over by critical theory Marxism.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not right to the taxpayers of Arizona.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: We serve out of state students or international students.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: We serve the students of Arizona.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think a majority of people today would benefit from taking college level courses?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: What is the purpose of college through our eyes today,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: not through the eyes of when you started there 25, 30 years ago?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think every parent and student going into it needs to reassess that question
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: because to be an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, you need to go to university.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: To be a good person, you don't need to go to university.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: To be a successful person, you don't need to go to university.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so we need to break the myth that any person who That's simply not true anymore.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not that it ever was true.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: But in the past,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: there was more of an inclination where the field I'm in,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: liberal arts,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: was more about learning the great ideas and debates the world has gone through.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that is valuable.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I believe that's valuable for every human.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: But now you're not going to get that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Even in honors colleges,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: which tell parents on their parent meeting,
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: this is one other thing I've documented,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: what they'll tell parents when the parents come for a tour and then say,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: The events they hold, such as the benefits of witchcraft, the benefits of polyamory.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have those posters up when the parents are going on their tour, do they?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sneaky.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is so wild.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: In my experience teaching ethics to,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: young undergrads,
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: they seem to have some basic skills,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: but they're really not equipped to reason through ethical issues.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you're...
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: You see this much more than I do because you're more broadly a philosopher
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: and you deal with a wide swath.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think the K-12 in your long time there at ASU has been degraded?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or how would you describe the quality of public school education coming into ASU?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I mean, I see it as a professor.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Ever since I was just first hired, I would sit around with faculty in meetings.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them are older than me.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: They've been at it longer.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they would talk about how the incoming groups are A lot dumber than the previous groups.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I always thought to myself, is that true?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you just become cranky when you're older?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always wanted to avoid becoming cranky.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so hedging that a little bit, the quality is certainly going down.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: The ability, what they're able to do and write and express, the references I can use.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like most of the references I began being able to use, Hamlet,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Macbeth, Socrates, anything in the Bible, can't reference that, like nothing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the day it really got bad for me was when I realized I can't even reference The Simpsons.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's how bad it's gotten.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Nine years is too long ago.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'll ask the students what they read and it'll be like Twilight.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: So their teachers are trying to be hip and trendy, but they're not learning the great classics.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen clips go live on the national news about teachers saying,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: hey, the parents are your enemy.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to get around your parents.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And my wife did her master's degree in library studies.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: And she has even crazier stories than I do about this.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because people go and they'll say this in her classes.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: I came into library studies because if I went into elementary school,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I still got to deal with parents.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: As a librarian, homeschooling parents drop their kids off.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when their kid comes up to me and says, I would like a book about how to be a good mommy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Say, well, I have a book right here called My Two Mommies.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's really good.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And on top of that, when the parent comes and asks, hey, what did my kid read?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: What did they check out?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can say, well, the law doesn't let me tell you.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the librarians get direct access to these kids and parents don't know that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: They think, oh, this libraries are safe places.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you got these activists going into these elementary school
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: or librarian jobs purposely to undermine Christian values
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: and promote their LGBTQ ideologies.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: See, we've been trying to tell everybody, Dan.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: He put it so well because it's not just the university, not just K through 12.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the libraries.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's all of it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Parents need to be aware.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: The opponents have captured the high places,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: meaning the hills that have military significance
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: in our country have been conquered.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: All of the important places,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: media, institutions of higher learning have been taken by Marxist atheism.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a counterfeit that says, hey,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: we're teaching how to make And I don't think that Christians are prepared for that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Some of that is because a lot of us are not reading the Bible ourselves.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a lot of things going on in the American church that have taken us away
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: from the gospel as it is written.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been some convincing of minds that Christians should just stay over there.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have our own version of separation of church and state that comes from our pulpits.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I read the book of Acts, though.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I see the apostles actually going up against the powers that be,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: the rulers of that time, even John the Baptist.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: He was beheaded because he told a ruler that it was unlawful for him to marry his sister.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: The mindset that people are in is what's going to make a difference.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: The world is ending.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: We know that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: The three of us would agree with that.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to be in the world as we know it forever.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though all of those high places have been taken over,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: well, the God of the mountains we know is the God of the valley.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so just like Israel, we have God with us.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have the truth on our side and we've read the end of the book.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But on this topic of whether or not college is a myth or is there something
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: that can still Be salvaged from it because after the time I spent at TPUSA
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: and working for someone like CK and also the decisions I've made after going
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: to college, I, for the most part, don't think that it's worth it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Pressure my children to
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: go to college.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: My wife's a nurse.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: She needed to go to college for that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: At least a two-year degree.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's just how our system works right now.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the frustrating part is that it's been taken over.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't want to give up the fight, clearly.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Dr. Anderson doesn't want to give up the fight.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's worth fighting for because there's going to be an element of a need
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: for college, no matter how we slice it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: AI, change in demographics,
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: finances, funding universities, that's all going to force some change, I think.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: But there's going to be a need for it to some extent.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious to throw it back to you, Dr. A.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the part of it
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: for me is not giving up what we're constitutionally given.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Why should we give that back?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to change the constitution, do it.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: But right now,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: that's what our state constitution says should be given to the parents of Arizona.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Why hand it over to the unbelievers, the Marxists, just to take it?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a good and a bad kind of otherworldliness.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because in one sense,
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Christianity is otherworldly,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: meaning we believe the city of man,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: which is what the world looks like right now, It's going to pass away.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: It won't always be there.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: But that doesn't mean we're floating away into the clouds as replaced by the city of God.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we're told by Christ,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: go into all the world,
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: teaching them the gospel to teach them
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: to observe all whatsoever I've commanded them.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're not told by Christ, stop doing that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to separate going and making disciples from going to college.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand that they're one in the same if that's something that you pursue.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So to clarify,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: To clarify my point,
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: the median income of somebody with a bachelor's of science in business,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: they can make up to, let's say, for example, 75K.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: But then the income for a high school graduate who just has a business license
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: and they're self-employed can make up to 110K, if not double that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: My point in asking that question is,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: let's assume the three of us,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: or at least the two of you, because you guys are more philosophical than me.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of, you know, like one of the disciples that's just been with Jesus.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't study...
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to all be lawyers.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're not going to all be
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, in-house training.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's a good,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you reminded me of that because I do make the case that I think there's
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: a major
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: change that's going to happen now where students are offered other ways
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: to get a liberal arts component to their education and other ways to get
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: the technical part of their education.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And those are being broken apart,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: which is good because right now they're together and you want to be a nurse,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: you want to be a librarian.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you also have to take the humanities class on oppressive systems.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think people are speaking up and saying, I just want to be a nurse.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to hear about that stuff, which is good.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: But then for people like me,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: I pointed this out to my students,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: even going back 10 years ago, I said,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: if each of you skipped your latte at Starbucks before class
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: and just pooled your money,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: you could hire me to teach you philosophy much cheaper than your tuition costs you.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: You'll get to study with someone who you think is a great professor in humanities
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: and not have to deal with the garbage that you disagree with in Marxism.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we need to get that myth out there to say,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: hey, you don't need this education anymore in most cases.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do go to be a nurse or a lawyer,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: demand your university not force you to take these other things.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just do your interest.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: The state universities are learning what every Christian university already knew.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Federal money comes with federal strings.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And every Christian university has had to know that if you accept student loan money
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: for tuition, You're going to do what the feds tell you.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the second universities have stood back laughing, ha ha, you Christians, ha ha.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're under the same thing.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the feds are saying, hey, actually, we have strings on your side, too.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: You can't teach Marxism anymore.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they're saying, well, free speech, free academic freedom.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you didn't think that when it was the Christian universities.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and also it's important that our audience knows how to track what's going on
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: with your case, with the stuff that you're doing.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're on Substack, right?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're active on X. Dr. D.R.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Owen Anderson, just so everyone can easily find me.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I usually have my picture up there and I do different things.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like Twitter's usually like the All right.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Dr. A.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be praying that everything goes well for you.