Latest / Coffee People Podcast / S5:E14 - Nick Berardi, Mostra Coffee Company

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S5:E14 - Nick Berardi, Mostra Coffee Company · Coffee People Podcast

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Mosquitoes in Hawaii or friggin huge man.
0:06
I'm Andrea. One of the hosts of the voice of
0:08
San Diego podcast, Every week I get together with the other
0:15
editors at voice and explain the news that matters in San Diego
0:19
elections, politics law, enforcement, big investigations,
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and some fun stuff. The great palm tree debate,
0:27
ranked Choice, voting bike lane Mania.
0:30
It's great journalism and a lot of fun, every Friday for every
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listen to podcasts. Again, that's voice of San
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Diego. Hey, good morning everyone.
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Welcome to season 5 episode. 14 of the roast West Coast coffee
0:53
podcast. I'm Ryan Walt and this is the
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show where I bring you the stories of coffee professionals
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entrepreneurship and coffee education.
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Today, Nick Berardi, the 2022 u.s. roasting champion and the
1:07
head Roaster at most R Coffee Company When's the show from
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Hawaii where he was enjoying the perks of being a champion and
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also coming face-to-face with some big effing mosquitoes.
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This is the first of a two-part interview with Nick and we're
1:21
going to get started by covering his journey to coffee and more
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specifically to mostra along with his thoughts on how coffee
1:27
contributes to society. Nick is incredibly well spoken
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and there were long moments during this conversation where I
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just step back to listen and then had to actually shocked
1:36
myself back into the conversation.
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Also, and this should be obvious by now.
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I'm not a math and science guy. I'm a story guy.
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So about halfway through this chat, I tried to do some math
1:48
and I am way, way off more on that after the interview while
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you're listening today, check out at most your coffee on
1:56
Instagram and most your coffee.com.
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You can find those links in the show notes or subscribe to this
2:03
shows newsletter on roast westcoast.com Before we get
2:07
started, I want to say, thanks to you for hitting the little
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play button on, whatever podcast platform you're listening to
2:12
today. And I hope this show is inspired
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you to get out and pick up a cup of coffee from your favorite.
2:17
Local coffee roaster, if you haven't left yet, that's okay.
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This podcast can go with you. Enjoy part one of this interview
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with Nick Berardi head, roaster of moisture, Coffee Company.
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Check that champion. Head roaster of most, your
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coffee company. First of all, forget too far
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thank you for doing this. I'm sure you're busy.
2:48
I think you're. Are you in Hawaii?
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Yeah, yeah. Happy to do this.
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Happy we could make it work. I am in Hawaii right now is a
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part of the prize for winning. The u.s. roasters Championship
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was a Free trip to Hawaii. Which of course turned into just
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like anything. Anything that?
3:11
Nothing is a truly free. I will say that the people had
3:14
saver brands at spared. No expense.
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I'm up in this sweet-ass Resort and and they're treated me
3:20
really well, and their employees that are out here that have been
3:23
showing me around, have been really great went to a coffee
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Farm yesterday, I have to put together a presentation to give
3:29
to the Hawaii Coffee Association.
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That's basically done. By the time, this goes out Will
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be seems reasonable. Yeah.
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Small price to pay. I mean, I'm absolutely I'm a
3:42
person who really enjoys talking about our craft and, and what we
3:46
do. And so when it comes to that,
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you know, if that's what I gotta do to get a free trip to Hawaii,
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you know, that's not too bad. Not too bad at all.
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And on that note, I should have you introduce yourself.
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So people know who I'm talking to.
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If you wouldn't mind, just who you are, what you do, and maybe
4:07
what your favorite Ninja Turtle is.
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My name is Don. Nick Berardi.
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I'm the head Roaster at most R coffee.
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I profile coffee helps sourcing the coffee.
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Typical head roaster duties. But also most, there is a
4:22
company that a lot of us wear a lot of hats.
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And, and, and that's emphasized by the the ethos behind
4:29
everything that most dripping performance or exhibition.
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And so, we all push ourselves to perform, you know, outside of
4:36
our comfort Spears, even just on a day-to-day stuff, you know,
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helping with Logistics or anything like that.
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So my main focus is cupping as much coffee as I can and
4:46
roasting and sourcing but we all dabble in a lot of little stuff.
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My favorite Ninja Turtle is really changed over time but I
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would probably say A Raphael. I used to be a Donatello kind of
4:58
guy but hey, you know, it just it just feels, it feels more.
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If I said Donatello, I feel like I'd be lying to myself right
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now. I think I grew up as a
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Michelangelo guy, but I am also a Raphael guy, you know, as an
5:13
adult, you start to maybe appreciate the fact that he was
5:17
the adult in the in the turtle shell, as you here man.
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Yeah, I mean, I remember the second Quote unquote live action
5:25
movie. He challenged draft Leonardo's
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leadership. That's right.
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I may have watched that recently as I am want to do every every
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animal I really do appreciate you being here, I know you are
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technically on vacation. So I'm very grateful for that
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and for the time and for just doing this podcast I I've seen a
5:45
bunch of TV spots and new spots come out since your Victory but
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I want to go back in time a little bit and just ask you what
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were you doing before mostra and Maybe, did you have like a first
5:56
coffee experience that set you down this path?
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You know. Well, I do want to say, thanks
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for having me on. It's been something that I
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haven't necessarily been like purposefully, you know,
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obscuring myself from the public.
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But just a, my tenure in San Diego coffee has mostly been
6:14
behind the scenes stuff, the news interviews and things like
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that. I mostly just stand there and
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wave and say a sentence before they cut you off.
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So I'm really happy to be here too.
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Actually, you know, be able to speak at length about some
6:27
coffee stuff and and I think you have a great thing with your
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podcast and all the coffee smarter stuff.
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So thanks for having me on in terms of I guess I'll answer the
6:38
second part of the question first, because that's the part
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that I remember, is my first, like, kind of, wow, coffee
6:46
experience happened when I was still living back in Columbus,
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Ohio, and this is where I Threw up and I had worked at a local
6:58
second wave coffee shop throughout my days at Ohio State
7:01
undergrad. And then beyond that time,
7:04
worked at, you know, place that had like, 15 different flavors
7:07
of mochas, then got into managing and stuff like that.
7:11
And then I thought I quit and I was thinking about moving, and
7:15
then I decided to stay in Columbus and ended up cooking
7:18
fine. Dining at a real great
7:21
restaurant. Shout out to Chef Dave.
7:23
Tesla off if you're ever in. Columbus, Ohio place, got named
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I like best restaurant in the city.
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A couple of years running. I didn't really have much to do
7:30
that but I got to cook there and some of the people that I had
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met through the second wave kind of coffee shop, kind of stuck
7:40
more with the coffee industry and evolved and and with third
7:43
wave stuff as it Columbus Ohio and like you know 2006-2008
7:47
stuff like that. My first like wow experience
7:52
with coffee was from a Ace that I ended up working for two or
7:57
three years before I moved to San Diego, to place called Cafe
8:00
prio. So I had a Costa Rica Perla
8:03
Negra and that was the first time I'd had that natural
8:06
process peaberry. Just delightful coffee richness
8:10
and just like overwhelming sweetness.
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And I shared it with some of the servers at at the restaurant,
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they were all just like, whoa is this coffee?
8:19
You know, you've heard some of the stories that but I ended up
8:23
splitting time between Tween working at the restaurant,
8:25
working at the coffee shop and working at the coffee shop.
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Made me realize that the the lifestyle that I was living at
8:32
the restaurant wasn't going to be sustainable.
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So I opted for the wake up at 4:00 in the morning rather than
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going to sleep at 2:00 in the morning and kind of thing.
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And that's when I got into a third wave coffee, that's really
8:45
interesting. That the lifestyle part of it
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was part of your decision making process.
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I also came up in restaurants and fine dining and there.
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Definitely in retrospect a burning of the candle.
8:58
You know, that takes a toll on you and at some point you have
9:00
to make a choice. Yeah.
9:02
Want to keep doing this. Not everything's like Anthony
9:04
Bourdain's book. You know, and I we weren't doing
9:06
like crack in the back or anything like that.
9:08
Yeah that's him that's in the book.
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I haven't read it. I said I've seen some of his his
9:13
travel shows and and yeah, I mean it was a not all kitchens
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are like that but some of the guys I worked with that, I hung
9:19
out with there was, you know, some some hard Livin and, you
9:22
know, I just kind of had me Make a decision that I wasn't seeing
9:27
myself advancing through the culinary arts, but I did already
9:32
know how coffee in general worked in terms of like the
9:36
practicalities of opening and closing and managing a coffee
9:38
shop, I didn't have a lot of experience with potential of
9:43
what modern coffee has become or had become at that point and has
9:47
continued to evolve into. And that's something I'm
9:49
grateful for making that decision.
9:52
So at that point in your career you're still in Columbus Ohio,
9:57
what happens next, what brings you West you know and kind of
9:59
where did you end up once you got out here?
10:02
well, I ended up staying in contact with some friends who
10:07
had moved across the country and After a little while in
10:13
Columbus, I just kind of realized I needed a change of
10:16
scenery, and I'd gotten in contact with a friend, Heather
10:21
Brisson. Now, have a person Lutz she had
10:24
worked at the place. I worked with, like, about all
10:27
the candy bar drinks, had another side to the company
10:29
where people were more dedicated to the craft of the coffee.
10:32
And she worked on that side with my other good friend at the
10:36
time, John Herman. Both of them ended up taking
10:40
different routes to San Diego. John had moved to Florida first
10:45
and then, ended up, moving to San Diego.
10:47
Heather moved to Oregon and worked in Portland at kovin,
10:52
albino press and some really awesome places and then came
10:54
down to San Diego. And and I would mention before
10:59
you go too much for the John is here.
11:01
I believe running interim or as interim coffee and say oh crack
11:04
and Heather is in Hawaii. Yeah.
11:07
I'm trying to think is it Origins coffee, origin, Coffee
11:10
Roasters and Maui and John and a guy named Ray run a place called
11:15
an interim that's out of Carlsbad recommend.
11:17
Checking off both places out. One's easier to get to when
11:20
you're in San Diego but other ships, a lot of great coffee out
11:24
to sew across Jon Jon's couch. So I can find a place to live.
11:28
Heather got me a job, working part-time at Bird Rock and so in
11:33
order to make the move, I kind of gave way all my crap.
11:37
A little Subaru, Outback station wagon, popped a everything I
11:42
could that fit in the car with enough room for my dog to lay on
11:45
top of it and drove across country and about two and a half
11:48
days. Started working at Bird Rock and
11:51
work my way up through there from covering Barista shifts and
11:55
working, you know, just part-time hours, trying to flesh
11:58
out filling mail, orders and doing deliveries doing anything.
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I could copying any opportunity, I could.
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And I got to grow with that company.
12:05
I got to learn a lot of stuff from Heather and Chuck patent,
12:09
the founder of Bird Rock, and got to really expand what I did
12:14
in the company. I apprenticed under Heather,
12:16
roasting for a little bit, it turned into something that as
12:21
the company was growing because, you know, Chuck was sourcing,
12:24
such great coffee and Heather was roasting such great coffee
12:27
that. My apprenticeship was all for
12:29
naught because we switched from back in the day, the 15 kilo
12:34
giessen to a 35 kilo alluring. And so it was more of Of needing
12:38
another roaster. We needed somebody to go out and
12:41
sell coffee and help pay for the new Roasters.
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You know, I joke about that but I got that my hands and sales
12:49
logistics you know online platforms more into sourcing
12:55
training wholesale, some accounting thing.
12:58
You know just kind of got to get my feet wet across the board and
13:03
then when Chuck sold the company was bought by Jeff Taylor the,
13:08
the Avenue that I felt like, I was working towards was not
13:11
something that was any any longer going to be available to
13:14
me, Jeff's? Real gregarious.
13:16
Nice guy. You know, he knows what he's
13:17
doing. I just didn't see myself, going
13:19
the same direction as the company at that time.
13:21
So I left that, I worked at another place.
13:24
That was a part of a restaurant group.
13:26
That was part of investment firm and I had Personality Clash with
13:30
some people there and I wasn't at a great spot in my life and
13:33
ended up leaving there. And that's what led me in a most
13:36
trip. Just like how Heather and John
13:38
helped me, you know, by easing the move to San Diego and kind
13:42
of get me into a good spot. I ended up reaching out to Ryan,
13:46
Sullivan, the director of coffee and operations, and a whole
13:49
bunch of other stuff at mostra and he was able to say, yeah,
13:55
you know, we can get you some part-time Barista shifts and
13:57
Just Like a Bird Rock. I started working a little bit
13:59
part time and, you know, got to know the owners really well, got
14:03
to know the structure. Got to start helping out in
14:06
production and, you know, making all types of adjuncts and cold
14:09
Brews and things. And one of the big tipping
14:12
points for me in this abbreviated Narrative of this is
14:16
my life, is when Stone Brewing Company placed, there was that
14:23
the time annual order with most or coffee.
14:26
I'm a little hazy on the details, but something along the
14:29
lines of Stone Brewing, it had an open competition for home.
14:33
Brewers years, Isis. And the person who won that
14:37
Brewing competition, had made a coffee beer with mostra coffee,
14:41
and they ended up hiring that guy and making the coffee beer,
14:46
recurring thing, the stone Trope of Asa.
14:48
And then, the year that I was at 2019 that summer, I was picking
14:52
up shifts slang and lattes, and creme, brulee and torturing some
14:56
drinks at mostra Stone placed. An order for 24,000 pounds of
15:00
coffee because they wanted to go internet or International
15:03
Bottling the coffee. Dear, I think as was so, that
15:06
was a situation where it was anybody who had ever touched a
15:09
roaster. It was all hands on deck.
15:12
And so, I got my experience roasting on are now 30 to 30
15:17
year old SF 25, San Franciscan named Felicita at mostra.
15:23
And from there, I just kind of just settled into roasting for
15:28
mostra I just did some rough math on that and just let's just
15:33
say 15 minutes A Rose, you know for dropping it in and pulling
15:37
it out and that could be a wrong time.
15:39
That's just a rough number. That's 6,000 hours of roasting.
15:43
It's yeah, it's only that that's what it 4,000 pounds of garbage.
15:46
It was something along there. Yeah, I mean it was a hazy and
15:51
Regulation and also a hazy at the time because they were
15:54
asking us to grind the coffee and this was mid-august, Carmel
15:57
Mountain Valley, so Right in front of the roaster was
16:01
reaching temperatures, close to 110 degrees and then wow, every
16:04
couple batches, you know, every five or six hours.
16:08
We had to take a little bit of a break.
16:10
So The Roaster had kind of cooled down just a hair which
16:14
was not any relief to myself or Ryan or Mike or Allen or anybody
16:18
else. It was roasting because when we
16:21
hate stopped roast and we have to turn around and grind the
16:23
coffee and just get covered and all the nice little fine shaft
16:27
coming off. The grinder clogging, up your
16:28
pores make Those hot days even more enjoyable, but it was
16:31
enjoyable for me because I was getting to do something that I'd
16:35
never really had any designs on being a roaster.
16:38
And I love the extraction and the science and the sourcing of
16:41
coffee and stuff. But I had always worked, you
16:44
know, we mentioned John and Heather.
16:45
I'd always work with people that were great at roasting coffee
16:48
and so, I never sat down and drank a coffee and thought to
16:52
myself. Hey, I want to do that instead
16:56
being behind the machine mostra and then It's kind of, you know,
17:00
plowing through a couple, you know, thousands of pounds of
17:02
coffee and, you know, kind of getting into the Rhythm, seeing
17:06
how things work seeing what could be done and what you can
17:11
learn while you're roasting coffee, was really cool thing
17:14
for me. Yeah, I think grossing is
17:17
interesting in that somebody could go from never roasting to
17:21
working on a sample roaster and getting something that they felt
17:25
like wow this actually tastes like something.
17:27
I want a drink fairly quickly but then it there's a whole
17:31
nother leap. Every step is like this huge
17:33
leap, and everyone feels kind of Epic, and you kind of did them
17:36
all in a day, you know, in a short period of time out of day.
17:39
But with that big with that big order, I think even like new
17:43
Roasters Chris O'Brien, If you cycle hasn't been roasting long,
17:47
but I love the coffee's that they're dialing in and bringing
17:50
out. But you could tell like he he
17:53
learned, he had this base of experience and then got on The
17:56
Roaster and as he was roasting and seeing what was happening in
17:59
The Roaster, he was learning and building intelligence every
18:04
single time that they were. They were on that machine.
18:06
Oh, yeah. Chris is a super intuitive about
18:09
that stuff. We had worked together back in
18:11
the in the OG Bird Rock days as well.
18:13
And I remember it was a couple months.
18:16
It's after I got hired, he was already established as a barista
18:18
there. I mentioned something about
18:20
malic acid and coffee and he just took that and ran with it
18:25
and because, you know, it takes all kinds and their Roasters
18:29
like Chris who just like, you know, sponge up knowledge.
18:32
And, you know, because of that become Roasters for me, like all
18:36
the big steps, it wasn't really that big of a thing partially
18:41
because that, you know, crash course and jumping You know,
18:46
diving into the deep end was roasting was because a bunch of
18:49
dark roast Brazil and the the window on that pretty easy, you
18:53
know, I did you know, we have the you know the technology and
18:56
everything to be super consistent with it but those
18:59
those graphs didn't involve anything that was difficult as a
19:04
roaster. And so being the type of person,
19:06
you know, like Chris who you know, presented with knowledge
19:09
or the opportunity to learn. I'm going to grab every single
19:12
book, every single blog, everything I could and I was
19:14
already pretty familiar. Hillier with once I got familiar
19:18
with actually the the Practical operation of a machine and you
19:23
know warm up cool down between batch procedures, designing the
19:28
basic idea of a profile. It wasn't really anything that
19:32
was too daunting because it's something that actually it's
19:36
funny it's comes up in almost every conversation that we have
19:39
a bunch of sayings and coffee and a bunch of people have
19:42
different ones. I know we had a the top three
19:44
back in the Bird Rock days. But Ryan and I and most are
19:47
always have a, you know, the first thing we say is does it
19:50
taste good and that's you know, when I'm when I'm in the back
19:54
there I'm toasting these little seeds up.
19:56
That's the main thing is, does it taste good?
19:59
And as long as I make sure that I don't have it up there.
20:02
Going to taste good because we buy really good coffee.
20:05
The question is, can I make the coffee Excel by my roast?
20:09
And that's where it's pushing every day.
20:12
Cupping, every single batch, even if I don't want to just
20:15
because there's Is this going to be something to learn their on
20:18
this path? It sounds like you were fairly
20:21
once you made the call you in this, this shortened version of
20:24
your story, fairly passionate about about what you were doing.
20:29
Was there ever a point that you thought, you know what, maybe I
20:31
should do something else, and maybe coffee wasn't the right
20:33
decision or not, never really hit you.
20:37
No, not yet. I mean, I realize there's going
20:39
to be a point where I don't work in coffee.
20:40
I remember, you know, back back in the the we days when I was
20:45
still. Till like a high school,
20:47
wrestler getting home. Late from long practice.
20:50
My dad had waited to have dinner with me and there was an article
20:53
in Time Magazine on the little kitchen island.
20:57
And it was all about how oh, with the advances in medical
21:00
science. If you're born in X year, you're
21:02
going to live this many years. And and with that, you know,
21:05
that the conversation we had about that article was kind of
21:07
almost a takeaway of Well, no matter what you choose to do for
21:12
a living, don't worry about it because you're going to have to
21:15
have, you know, three careers at least during your lifetime based
21:19
upon how long were going to live.
21:22
So, you know, I had some ups and downs and coffee and in my
21:25
personal life during coffee and I didn't really see any reason
21:28
to stray away from that because I hadn't achieved anything yet.
21:32
And so the, you know, there weren't roadblocks, they were
21:36
just hurdles and, you know, you just stretch it over.
21:40
Come your hurdles and that was you know, why I wanted to stick
21:43
with whatever I could do in coffee because I mean part of it
21:48
is I just love the damn stuff. Yeah I'm drinking this this
21:53
really super awesome Pod coffee in this hotel on the big island
21:56
of Hawaii. That I'm very grateful to be at
21:59
and it's not my, you know, cup of tea.
22:01
But at the same time, it's still coffee.
22:03
It's still, it's still delightful in a, just a basic,
22:07
almost visceral sense to me, and the Of coffee, you know, even
22:11
just coffee as a commodity that, you know, could be anywhere from
22:14
the first to the fifth, most traded commodity in the world.
22:17
This has an impact as an ability to contribute back to so many
22:21
people's lives. And, and so many lives that, you
22:25
know, are on the impoverished side of things.
22:28
And so, yeah, that's a super overarching altruistic.
22:33
Like, could sound like a talking point thing but the idea of
22:38
contributing is what really You know, I always looked for in
22:41
coffee and that's something that really drew me to mostra the
22:45
mission of the company, being that to the founders of the
22:49
company. Jillian and Beverly went on a
22:51
trip to the Philippines and they came back trying to figure out
22:53
how to start a business, to help eliminate poverty in the islands
22:56
that were their ancestors were from.
22:59
And that's just, you know, that speaks to my heart on a daily
23:01
basis. That is something I was going to
23:04
ask about one is mosters incredibly prolific with coffees
23:09
coming out constantly copies from all over the world.
23:11
But you do have this special focus on coffees from the
23:14
Philippines which is unique in the industry at least here in
23:18
this area in. I'm wondering if in your
23:20
experience if there are Regional traits that you associate with
23:23
the Philippines, what is it that coffees from that area?
23:26
Offer that maybe you don't get in other places or that set them
23:30
apart. But there are a lot of layers to
23:32
that, I In even just beginning, on the the idea that coffee from
23:37
the Philippines isn't very common, pre-World War Two,
23:41
Philippine specialty, arabica coffee.
23:44
They were the fifth largest producer of arabica coffee in
23:46
the world, different socio, economic and geopolitical
23:50
forces, change that over the years.
23:54
But they were, you know, right up there with with Brazil and,
23:58
you know, Columbia and countries like that.
24:00
That you think of when you think of mass Output no no reason to
24:05
get into why those things changed.
24:07
I wasn't there and that could strike some nerves with some
24:09
people. But I'm kind of trying to do
24:12
what we can to reawaken Philippine coffee as specialty
24:15
coffee. And a lot of people's
24:16
Consciousness is multiple hurdles.
24:19
It's not just overcoming people's preconceptions of oh
24:24
coffee from Southeast. Asia is generally bought up by
24:27
Nestle or it's commodity grade or it's Robusta.
24:30
I mean there's plenty of that stuff going on too but There's
24:34
there's a lot of great coffee out of there to the logistics
24:37
part of it though. There's so many islands in the
24:40
Philippines that getting the actual coffee or finding, you
24:45
know, the best coffee is something that we're going to
24:48
have to continue to evolve our approach to the company that
24:52
mostra historically, is worked with Casada.
24:55
Call, Sada means roads or builder of roads and they
24:58
literally build roads to Farmers so that they can get to the The
25:03
to the mill because we're talking about some treacherous
25:07
travels up some mountainsides and things like that.
25:10
So they're all those layers to it.
25:13
And what it manifests in, in the cup because Casada is able to
25:17
work with Farmers on certain techniques harvesting and then
25:21
they process mainly at their own meals.
25:23
Although there, we've experimented with some farmer
25:26
process, Lots from from the Philippines and the past couple
25:30
years. The coffee does end up pretty
25:33
consistent. You would think that, like, many
25:36
other Co-op Blends, you would have a lot of variance but there
25:41
really isn't the screen size. 80, the, the size of the, the
25:45
green coffee beans is really tight.
25:49
In terms of what we, what we get and it roasts kind of
25:55
differently. There are mainly typica
25:59
dissension, varietal That we end up dealing with the coffee.
26:05
A lot of times we'll have some more like kind of skim pulling
26:09
on the surface during roasting if we take it in between like a
26:13
city and a full City because of the moisture migrations a little
26:17
bit different, just from the growing conditions, you're going
26:19
to see that with other regions to but harvesting you know and
26:23
especially you know rainy season and Southeast Asian means you
26:28
know rainy season and No, that's the only one of the reasons why
26:33
historically, you see you getting basava processing out of
26:36
Sumatra. Indonesia is kind of in that,
26:39
you know, it's in that same Oceania.
26:41
And that's a place where, when they harvest coffee, they don't
26:44
even try to try to Mill it traditionally because it's just,
26:47
like, we're not going to get this dry, it's going to rain.
26:50
So the effort they call Sada and other exporters and Miller's in
26:55
the Philippines put in is more arduous for the for the same.
27:01
Those results that you get some other places, the cup profiles,
27:05
typically tend towards lately, floral kind of pleasantly nutty.
27:11
You know, there's all those things that you have an educated
27:14
coffee crowd and there's some things that even in an educated
27:17
Coffee Company. We don't talk about like for
27:19
Sumatran copies will say rustic instead of tastes like dirt you
27:24
know or there's things like that you know Brazil coffee always
27:29
has that weird like Boiled peanut aspect to it and
27:34
similarly Philippine coffee which we do also get some
27:38
garnica varietals which were mostly from Mexico.
27:43
I believe, historically those those varietals and the typicals
27:48
that are grown out there usually end up with a hint of like a
27:51
peanut skin characteristic. But the way I'm able to
27:56
manipulate, the the modulation of the of the roast, I'm usually
28:00
able to cover that up and try to Bring out more of like a
28:02
honeysuckle. Its overall, a creamier light
28:06
medium cup of coffee. The way we roast, most of the
28:08
Philippine coffee that we get. You mentioned something earlier.
28:12
That has me thinking about the journey, the coffee takes to get
28:16
to you in San Diego to roast. Being a roaster that is working
28:21
in coffee, from the Philippines now and among coffee from around
28:25
the world. If it is that much more arduous.
28:27
And if there are stereotypically less Roasters using it, I would
28:31
imagine that it's more expensive to get here and the logistics.
28:34
Are that much more challenging? Yeah.
28:37
Which means you're providing a coffee to the public that.
28:41
Has more of an impact on you as a company as well?
28:44
Yeah, I mean Not going to not going to throw, you know,
28:48
dollars and cents out there. I will, I will talk about it in
28:51
terms of, you know what, you know any Roasters are people
28:56
that buy green coffee from Sweet Maria's or other places that are
29:00
home Roasters, listen to your podcast.
29:01
Well in general know what a micro lot these days costs or
29:05
even a regional micro blender micro Regional blender or
29:08
something like that. Most of the coffee we buy from
29:11
Philippines were paying to two and a half times as much.
29:16
It and it's something that we have had some experimental.
29:21
Lots with them that produce extreme cup quality differences
29:25
and will be in the, you know, the high 80s, but otherwise,
29:28
it's going just like, you know, like a coffee that we bring in.
29:32
We brought in the past couple of years Columbia passiflora as I'm
29:35
micro Regional blender out of a Wheeler region of Colombia and
29:40
it's a real great standard cup of coffee.
29:43
It's not going to be something that you like most Coffee's,
29:47
don't perk your ears up, you know, it's not going to be like,
29:49
what, the heck's going on here. I do, you know, flavor, spacing
29:52
and stuff like that. Really just great coffees that,
29:56
you know, we're not talking about your Ninety.
29:58
Six Point coffee review, things, those those things.
30:01
We're paying more for not just to cover the disparity in the
30:07
logistics that they have to put up four in the Philippines.
30:11
But because we willingly at mostro pay more for those
30:14
coffees to make sure more money goes back to the Partners.
30:17
Just like there's been opportunities in the past to,
30:21
you know, importers may offer us a discount on Brazil or
30:26
something like that. To, you know, because we're
30:29
buying so much of it at certain points, and it's just like, just
30:33
take the difference and give it back to the farmers, will pay
30:35
what we pay and that allows us a little bit more stability to, to
30:38
deal with. So, you know, ups and downs
30:40
which have been really prevalent the market over the past 18
30:43
months, but that's just a little inside baseball.
30:46
There, I don't know if, if we want to talk too much about that
30:49
but we paid more, I guess more per point for the coffee from
30:53
the Philippines because it's definitional to who we are.
30:57
Yeah, it makes sense for anyone listening this episode with Nick
31:01
is going to actually come out coinciding.
31:04
I believe with an episode on coffee Commerce that I did with
31:08
Jared Hills of Isaiah coffee source.
31:10
So that same week there's going to be some overlap there with
31:12
that. Let's change tax a little bit
31:14
then, well, if I said anything, Contradictory.
31:17
Just just pluck it out of there. No, I think.
31:21
Actually if I work I talked to him yesterday so it lines up
31:25
pretty pretty well. Yeah, that's one of those
31:27
things. I don't think I've ever met
31:28
Jared or if I had it, it wasn't a very, it was a very brief
31:33
interaction and that's just something that it's not unique
31:36
necessarily the most driving our approach.
31:40
Our nuances going to be more unique but people who respect
31:43
the market who respect producers in Origin.
31:47
You put respect on the very beans themselves, you know, and
31:50
are not just trying to come out of ties like non commodity
31:54
coffee. You know, we're going to in
31:55
general have the same sort of approach because that's kind of
31:58
where we get to where we are well and you're creating a brand
32:04
and a product funnel for the Long Haul, not just to get the
32:07
most profit today necessarily and you know, it's a longer
32:11
Vision, I think, over time, you know, it's better for them,
32:14
it'll be come back to you. The long run as well even from
32:19
immediately as well intrinsically, but also in the
32:22
long term. Yeah.
32:23
But there's also times where you just kind of have to realize
32:27
that it doesn't one of my favorite stories about that was
32:30
actually from when a truck patent first was working, really
32:36
seriously getting into direct trade, kind of at the outset of
32:39
that crazed before it became just tourist trips for a lot of
32:42
people and he worked with really closely with a couple.
32:46
And Bolivia and made some trips down there and got some great
32:50
coffee and the coffee, he brought in that, he was able to
32:54
secure did really well and the next year, he re-approach the
32:59
same Farmer and the guy was like, nice old on my coffee to
33:01
sweep Maria's. So that is the the blessing and
33:06
the curse of it is that if you're able to do something
33:08
that's mutually beneficial, you also have to realize that
33:10
sometimes that results and producers or other relationships
33:15
kind of out growing, and To explore other Horizons, whether
33:18
it's a single farmer in Bolivia, or, you know, importers
33:22
diversifying who's selling their coffee.
33:24
Instead of selling all the coffee to one person, same thing
33:27
with that, you know, larger farms and things like that
33:29
there, there's always going to be a give and a take of, you
33:33
know, the realism behind the scenes, it would be great if
33:36
everything was, you know, copacetic all at all times.
33:41
But as long as we can be amicable about any negotiations
33:44
and transparent about anything. Thing that you know if somebody
33:47
decides they want to move a different direction, that's the
33:50
you know that's that's their decision and we respect and live
33:53
with all of that I keep thinking to myself that the human part of
34:00
the engagement of interactions and Humanity in general is the
34:04
unpredictable part. It's only dogs that we can
34:06
trust, to be honest with their feelings at all bad.
34:11
We mentioned at the top that you recently took first place at the
34:15
u.s. coffee. Chip Roasters competition in
34:17
Boston. Congratulations, a huge
34:20
achievement. I think by any standard.
34:23
I also think it was a really cool, really cool way to draw a
34:27
lot of attention to the San Diego coffee, seen, just by you
34:31
being there and being on that stage and then winning, I'm
34:35
wondering and I have a little bit of an idea but I'm
34:38
wondering, how do you train for a competitive roasting
34:41
experience? And how is that kind of
34:43
different from what you do day to day at the shop?
34:46
Or is it? Yes and no.
34:49
And I do think it's interesting. You know, that there's there's
34:53
all different facets of the coffee industry and we talk
34:55
about different Market, abilities or things like that.
34:58
And, you know, we want to mostra wanna roast magazines, 2020
35:03
micro stir the year, Chuck and Bird Rock.
35:06
Want it back in. 2012 up the road in Orange County.
35:10
Portola coffee one it and I think, 2014, or 2015, clutch
35:15
coffee had one it, previously in Rancho Cucamonga.
35:18
Maybe 2010 or something. Jeff PT's coffee who ended up
35:22
buying Bird Rock from Chuck. Wanna macro stir the year.
35:26
So, if you count that one and our little corner in Southern
35:29
California, we basically have five roaster of the Year titles,
35:32
but still people think, just like with the craft beer scene,
35:36
people are always thinking, oh, but the Northwest and it's like,
35:38
all right, you know, that's cool.
35:40
You can have rain and snow and we'll be down here with some
35:43
great coffee in the sunshine. You know, shots fired shots,
35:47
fired. Fire.
35:48
It's not honestly, that I met, I met great people from all across
35:53
the country at the in Boston, for the roasting competition.
35:57
And I mean, even a, the guy that there was a trio of guys from
36:01
Portland to of whom placed 6th and 5th in the competition.
36:04
And and we're all just, you know, the whole Community was
36:07
really great but it's one of those things.
36:08
It's just, it's not that I'm firing shots at them but more so
36:13
deflecting shots fired at San Diego, I suppose.
36:16
But anyway, yeah, To go back to the to the question about what I
36:22
did or didn't do that was different from daily roasting to
36:27
prepare for the competition, I did have to find the competition
36:31
roaster and I get a couple practice rose on it because in
36:36
years past, the competition have been sponsored by a different
36:40
manufacturer who manufactured a typical drum type of roaster.
36:44
So use your listeners might be familiar with there's a road.
36:48
Dating horizontal drum with a heat Source underneath that some
36:51
configuration of air flow going through the drum to mitigate
36:55
conductive, convective and radiant heat and different
36:58
ratios, depending on how things are set up and whether or not,
37:01
they're adjustable and all that jazz, The Roaster sponsor this
37:06
year, for the competition for, for us, coffee Champs Roasters
37:11
Championship with stronghold. There's a roaster, I've been
37:14
long curious about because It looks like looks like an extra
37:21
piece of the set from Star Trek next Generation.
37:23
It's two conjoined vertical, cylinders one that's a control,
37:27
module and and houses some of the equipment and then the other
37:32
cylinder attached to it to the left is a vertical Tower of
37:37
roasting with halogen, as well as agitation arms at the bottom.
37:42
And the malleability of The Roaster is something that I
37:45
wasn't used to. I mentioned earlier, we're Roast
37:48
on a San Franciscan. 25 time roaster, most refer most of our
37:52
production roasts are roaster. I can change the gas level and
37:55
occasionally, I'll play with the damper but that's about all we
37:59
do the newer models, the San franciscans have a lot more
38:01
ability to change, AirSpeed, pressure, drum, speed, things
38:06
like that. Looking forward to getting into
38:08
one of those who wink wink, but the stronghold roaster has the
38:12
ability to change, airflow change halogen for the heat
38:17
source and change. The agitation speed or that, the
38:21
speed at which the bottom arms are agitating the beans.
38:25
So there are multiple ways that I could approach roasting the
38:30
coffee beans. But the times that I went up to
38:35
roast the guy named Kyle and Cerritos can't believe I'm
38:40
blanking right now. He's such an awesome guy.
38:41
I think his company was called Katie specialty, packaging.
38:44
And he just has a stronghold. Roaster is like, almost his
38:47
little As little side project toy, they're building out a
38:52
different coffee program but so he had time for a lot of
38:55
Roasters like myself and Rudy from from down in Mexico to and
39:00
come in and roast on practice on it.
39:02
And when I was doing practice roast on it and I brought up a
39:06
couple different types of beans to roast on.
39:09
I didn't really try to roast any good coffee because I just
39:14
wanted to learn the how the machine work the tolerances on.
39:18
Seeing how far I could push it how well it would settle into
39:22
like you know rapid decreases or drastic adjustments or things
39:27
like that. So I rose that I do 25 batches
39:31
of coffee and maybe one of them was good.
39:33
But that goes back to is it the preparation for the competition.
39:38
Something different than what we do on a daily basis.
39:42
And what we do on a daily basis is preparation for the
39:46
competition. There's always Ways, different
39:49
factors to run into with any roaster especially an older one.
39:55
And so, a lot of times we're roasting have to make
39:58
adjustments on the Fly, you know, re-evaluate coffees, as
40:02
they age where, as the seasons change, not too drastically in
40:07
San Diego, obviously, but enough that mostly open-air Warehouse
40:11
is going to see drastic changes. And, you know, it's like the
40:15
difference between if you Boil, an egg at room temperature
40:20
versus hard boiling it directly out of the fridge.
40:22
It makes a huge difference, right?
40:24
But that really is only like a 40-something degree difference
40:27
in terms of the starting temperature.
40:29
And when it's, you know, 50 degrees out and in early March
40:33
in San Diego, versus 90 in July and August.
40:36
That's a 40 degree difference. In starting temperature for the
40:39
coffee beans, you know? So it is going to be a big
40:42
difference and everything. You know, just like I was saying
40:45
earlier, my thirst for knowledge, I tried to Recognized
40:48
as many variables as possible, on a daily basis.
40:51
I'm even down to looking at every once in a while.
40:54
We just re-evaluate, how we cup coffee, you know?
40:57
Because if we can't evaluate coffee properly, then how are we
41:01
evaluating our roasts? So all of that rolled into the
41:04
preparation for the competition. It just is amazing to me that
41:09
there are that as many variables in coffee as our, I'm constantly
41:13
being reminded at how many variables there can be in to
41:16
getting a good cup of coffee. It starts, you know years a year
41:20
before years before at the farm level all the way until now.
41:24
But you were traveling from here to Boston for this competition
41:29
where the temperature would have been quite drastic but I didn't
41:31
even think about how you probably couldn't actually even
41:35
practice on this Roaster. At the same humidity and
41:39
temperature levels that you were going to experience in the
41:40
competition because of the time of year and just the
41:44
differences. Yeah that's correct.
41:46
And that's where the Experience, you know, of just trying to, I
41:53
guess consciously roasts every day, you know, it's it's where
41:58
that came in. There's, there's not a, there's
42:01
not a time. Even, you know, I joked around
42:03
how is easy to roast a dark roast, Brazil, for stone.
42:06
But when I was doing that, I was, you know, I was glued to
42:09
the crops, your screen I was I was clacking the Trier more than
42:12
I should have because we don't really use that much anymore,
42:15
but, you know, I was trying to soak everything in with And
42:18
that's something that I still continue to do this day.
42:22
I mean, I'm still even though it still feels weird to say even
42:27
though I guess I'm the champ now, as some of the guys at work
42:30
or calling me, even, even because of that though, I'm
42:34
still, you know, relatively novice roaster, you know, kind
42:38
of expanding on my, this is my life from earlier.
42:42
After we roasted the stone coffee, the submission for The
42:46
Roaster, Michael roaster the year for Roast magazine went in
42:50
and we were selected as one of the top three participants to
42:53
send in coffee to see who would win roaster the year.
42:57
And so then Ryan and I I don't know.
43:00
We probably cut like 170 or 180 different samples of coffee.
43:04
Trying to figure out what we wanted.
43:07
We came up with a plan and started roasting a bunch of
43:10
different 1-pounders and develop.
43:13
What we wanted out of that coffee and then sending it in.
43:18
And after that, that's when Mike, one of the founders, most
43:21
direct kind of handed over officially the reins, calling me
43:24
head roaster. And I want to say, October or
43:29
November of 2019, qualifiers for us, copy championships were
43:33
February 20, 2008. I had been roasting for, you
43:39
know, five, six months at that point.
43:42
Was, you know, when end though just like with the plan, for the
43:47
roaster of the Year contest, Coffee developed a plan for how
43:50
I was going to approach you as coffee championships qualified.
43:53
I didn't do spectacular and qualifiers, but I made it.
43:57
And then, you know, then the pandemic, it and any sort of
44:03
Ambitions of competing were way off for a long time, but then
44:08
here we are, you know, this this April, I will call it.
44:12
I've been roaster for a little over two years now, two and a
44:14
half years. There's people out there that
44:17
have been doing this. For a lot longer that have a
44:20
lot, they could teach me and I'm sure that everybody's individual
44:24
experiences will shape their, you know, psychology behind
44:28
roasting. I don't like to call it roasts
44:30
philosophy. It's a that that almost sounds a
44:33
little overarching and hoity-toity to me, I think most
44:36
of us Roasters are kind of, more grounded than than thinking of
44:41
it like that, it's a technique and it's psychology going into
44:45
desired results. That's just semantics.
44:55
Okay to recap there is a part two to this interview it'll drop
44:59
on Tuesday next week don't forget it's just as good as part
45:02
1. Nick mentioned City and full
45:05
City roasts earlier in this episode.
45:07
We've covered those terms in our vocab sessions before but as a
45:11
reminder City Roast refers to coffees that are roasted through
45:14
the first crack and full City refers to Coffee.
45:17
Roasted a No longer just before second crack first and second
45:21
crack, referral literal cracking, and popping noises
45:24
that occurred during the roasting process as the beans.
45:26
Internal temperatures. Rise generally speaking city
45:29
roasts land in the medium range and the full City would be
45:32
closer to a medium. Dark city roasts are very
45:35
popular with third wave Roasters because the coffee's lighter
45:38
sweetness. And floral notes are discernible
45:41
yet. The coffee still has some of the
45:42
Richer sweeter. Tastes that have traditionally
45:45
appealed to Consumers, full City.
45:48
Ghosts literally look a little bit darker and have a little bit
45:50
of oil on the bean. The coffee will have a fuller
45:53
body mouthfeel and an enhanced sweetness due to the longer
45:56
caramelization period, making them perfect for mixing with
45:59
steamed milk and a latte or cappuccino or just as a black
46:03
coffee. Now about that math problem.
46:06
For some reason, I did my math, assuming The Roaster only
46:08
managed one pound of coffee at a time and that would be insane.
46:13
Most are uses a 25-pound. San Franciscan roaster.
46:16
So a 24,000 Order from Stone Brewing would require roughly
46:20
962 1000 row sessions, assuming a near-perfect efficiency, which
46:26
rarely happens, and that doesn't account for water weight loss.
46:29
So roughly, And I stress that roughly, it would take 242 275
46:35
hours of straight, roasting to fulfill that order.
46:39
And that is an accounting for grinding and bagging and so on.
46:42
So I was way wrong, but still, it's a lot and it was a
46:47
life-changing order. For Nick, it put them in a
46:49
position to be immersed in the roast and to Showcase his
46:52
aptitude for the job, I really appreciate that.
46:55
Nick's view of coffee is wider than just the coffee in front of
46:58
him. It routinely comes up on this
47:00
show. That coffee connects us around
47:02
the world and that doesn't just mean coming to us.
47:06
It means we can give back the other way.
47:08
Good on most revered being willing to send Goodwill down
47:11
that supply chain in the way that they purchased coffee and
47:14
make decisions on the Philippine coffees.
47:16
They're offering despite the Ed logistical and financial
47:19
challenges in the next episode. We'll go further and index Rose
47:23
Championship experience. What made that moment special
47:26
and how he's getting ready for the world championships of
47:29
roasting in Milan, Italy. Later this month?
47:32
Check out all of the coffee's, Nick roast on offer online at
47:35
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47:39
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47:42
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48:05
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48:09
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48:11
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48:14
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48:18
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48:20
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48:27
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48:32
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48:35
else we mentioned on the show today can be found in this
48:38
episode's notes or online at roast westcoast.com.
48:43
Thank you all for listening for supporting this show.
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And this show sponsors for reading the Words that I put out
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in the newsletter and for diving into the new column the bean
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Journal. This episode of the roast West
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Coast coffee podcast is was has been written produced and
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recorded by me Ryan Wilt. I hope this show is found you
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happy healthy and with, at least enough sanity to make it through
49:05
the day. For those of you had it out for
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a cup of coffee this week. Please always took your Baristas
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and be sure to drink good coffee.
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I like beer, hey, everyone. If you like the roast West Coast
49:48
coffee podcast, you might also appreciate the, I like beer the
49:52
podcast. Listening to these guys is like
49:54
being a fly on the wall of the pub with a few of your favorite
49:57
mates. Having a pint these professional
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beer appreciators, have plenty of stories to share on
50:02
everything from the mating habits of penguins to there
50:05
behind the scenes Brewery experiences check out the, I
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like beer the podcast where ever, you are listening to this
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show about coffee or head. To, I like beer, the
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Podcast.com. Podcast.com.