Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 44: Antonio Bostic | Simplifying, Leading, and Coaching at the Next Level

Transcript

EP 44: Antonio Bostic | Simplifying, Leading, and Coaching at the Next Level · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

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  We play with one group of guys on Thursday.
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  We have a, we have a three different team on Friday.
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  But I love the adaptability. That's why I'm so intrigued by
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  nowadays because it's still trying to find a way to still
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  buy, don't win the games. Just as on us as coach is trying
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  to figure out how we can, you know, to have manufacture things
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  that's helping our team get better.
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  Then also man, that these dudes got to play because the end of
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  the day, like that is probably still one of the best ways for
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  you to learn how to develop. How can I be shorter, keep those
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  guys in the gym, but still be effective and get all the things
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  that we need to do. Coaching is coaching impacting
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  people is is the same feeling that you get whether it's
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  coaching pros, coaching college, coaching high school, like I
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  just love coaching. I love hoops, I love ball when
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  things get you know what I'm saying hard and that the
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  adversity hit is really when I feel like, man, I'm closest to
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  my purpose, man, because I I thought that's the best time of
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  each show. People, through character are.
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  Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
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  I'm your host, John Bloom, and today's guest is Antonio
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  Bostick. Antonio is an assistant
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  basketball coach with the Grand Rapids Gold, the Denver Nuggets
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  G League affiliate team. Now, this is his first season
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  coaching pro after working as a college assistant at both Oral
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  Roberts and Abilene Christian. We talked about the differences
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  between the G League in college, both in terms of coaching but
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  also playing styles. And we also dive into the
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  importance of simplifying as a coach.
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  Set an example for your athletes during both wins and losses in
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  the easiest way for college freshman to get playing time.
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  Antonio also talks about the special qualities of great men
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  teams like his ACU team that upset Texas in March Madness and
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  if that will become extinct in the modern era of college
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  basketball. If you're getting value from
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  these conversations, give the show a follow and leave a
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  review. It helps us continue to reach
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  and impact more coaches. Let's get into today's episode.
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  Coach Bostick, man, man, it's, it's great to be sitting here
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  with you. It's been a minute since we've
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  got to talk face to face. So it's awesome to get to
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  connect with you, man. For the people that don't know
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  who you are, like, like, like, who are you?
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  Oh. Man, I'm just a I coach
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  basketball. I'm believing in Jesus Christ,
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  so I just like to sit on myself and like just cool down to a
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  person. That's who I try to be man.
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  But I've been coaching for a long time.
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  I was just how we got connected. We work together or Roberts.
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  I was before that we use when I have only Christian together,
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  but was in the coaching name for a long time for a few years.
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  And now I just kind of tapped into my first year actually
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  being an assistant coaching the G League man.
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  So at the end, I'm just a basketball coach man who was a
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  guy who loves basketball and inspiring and kind of helping
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  people to get better. I love that.
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  And you know, as you've made that switch now from so are you
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  coaching in college now to the G League?
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  Like what's been the biggest difference for you between
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  college as you've been your whole career and pretty much in
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  and now in in the pros? It's a lot different for
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  starters, man, I, I, I do love the fact that when you go to
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  pros and when you coaching the pros, it's straight basketball.
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  Nothing against college, man, but you know, like there's no
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  longer worried about academics guys going to class.
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  And then we'll start with things, man, we show up, we talk
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  basketball, we do basketball and then we kind of, you know, I'm
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  saying get to go home and kind of enjoy some extra time with us
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  with family or going whatever you you want to do at the same
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  time off from a basketball standpoint, man, and just
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  players, just man. I say the biggest thing I've
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  seen I've coached some good players is high level, but the
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  shot making ability at the Co level is just it's it's top
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  tier. You know what I'm saying?
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  It's way different than than than college man.
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  And as far as what we do and how we play.
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  And I would say in my opinion, the game is also a lot simpler
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  at the level. I mean, just because it's
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  different. I mean, obviously in the G
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  League, man, some days we can have a roster, we can play, we
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  can have a back-to-back Thursday, Friday, we can play
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  with one group of guys on Thursday.
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  We have completely, we have completely different team on
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  Friday. But I love the adaptability and
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  I play. That's what I like.
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  That's why I'm so intrigued by nowadays because it's still
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  trying to find a way to still go.
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  I don't win the game, still coach same guys.
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  I don't play together and these guys never play together or some
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  new team, whether it's got a trade or you know, you're
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  dealing with two ways they're going to proteins or not.
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  And so I enjoy it though, and I think it's cool.
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  Like some people consider it chaos, but I love.
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  It so as you've kind of experienced that aspect of that
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  adaptability aspect, you said like if you were in college
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  where where it is a very different structure.
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  But is there anything you'd take from what you've learned doing
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  that that you would take and maybe simplify or or implement
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  differently if you were coaching in college from what you've
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  learned during this experience? Man, absolutely.
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  I've always thought, man, even before I got to be able to coach
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  this level, like when I became a head coach, my goal is always to
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  find a happy meeting between the NBA game and between college.
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  You know, like to whether it's how they play on the court, the
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  pace, whether it's analytics, whether it's team bond and to
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  kind of giving guys more time to kind of do their own thing.
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  So it's it's a ton of things that I would take definitely
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  from the pro game, but I also think it's a ton of things that
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  the the pro game can learn from college to at the same time.
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  And so but style of play, man, for sure.
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  I let the style of play. I love playing out, picking
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  roles, keeping it simple because once again, like I can get John
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  Boone come play on our team next week and it's the first time
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  he's happened to the system when you do so it needs to be simple,
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  it needs to be effective. But how can you still come in
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  here and play minutes for us when he just got in the town 2
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  days ago? You know, I'm saying four day of
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  the game to come ready to play myself.
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  I would definitely simplify the game if I was to ever go back
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  and be a a college head. College head coach man for sure.
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  Yeah, and he talked about the shot making ability and just
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  that difference between players and in the pro level.
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  Like, what have you seen between the pros in their like habits,
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  in their mindset and how they approach their craft?
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  Especially ones that have been able to sustain a career
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  professionally and do it year after year versus, you know,
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  younger athletes that are in high school or college and in a
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  little less mature or just getting started and kind of
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  finding ownership of their own path.
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  Yeah, I would say, man, the first thing is like you dudes
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  have crazy work ethic. I mean, they love the game, they
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  love playing it. I mean, they're super passionate
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  about it, which I do see at the college level sometime.
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  I think it's a little bit different because also to the
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  the players that we have or the players I do with now, like they
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  don't have class, you know, so they don't have these type of
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  players. So it's easy for these guys to
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  stay in the gym all day. Like it's actually their
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  profession. And now with NIL nowadays, I
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  mean, pretty much you got to consider these college players.
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  I mean, they're they're paid players.
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  So they're kind of like problems, you know, and as far
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  as what we need to do, man, but just to approach man the the to
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  come in early to get into treatment, like they're big time
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  on their bodies for their bodies, their biggest
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  investment, but they're not healthy.
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  If they're not good, they can't play, you know, now obviously
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  they need to play to make money to get to where they need to do
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  man. Obviously the goal here is for
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  everybody to get into a contract.
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  So that's why I go when they show up every single day, man,
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  But the the time they put into it, it's kind of different.
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  I do see a lot of guys. I've had some guys still though,
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  the college over worked pretty hard, the eyes and the brides of
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  the world, like he had a crazy work ethic.
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  You know what I'm saying? Like I do think that he probably
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  still worked harder than some roles who actually play
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  nowadays. It's just finding that way to
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  kind of continue to play and just continue to grind and just
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  try to find a way, man, and always be working on your game
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  until the end of the day, man. That's that's your biggest
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  investment. And that starts with diet.
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  That starts with your body, starts with treatment and extra
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  treatment like these dudes is getting.
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  They get massages all the time and they get work before
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  practice. They got activation time.
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  Like they don't all these type of things to get themselves
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  ready for what they've practiced for a game, which you just don't
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  kind of see, you know what I'm saying?
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  I think the other cost of this time, just like, yeah, we got to
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  warm up. You know what I'm saying?
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  I'll show a little bit early. Got the little warm that we do,
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  but these dudes do that activation and then they also do
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  that warm up before they even get on the court and do those
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  type of things. So just kind of like a little
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  Dupree prep and how they like take care of their bodies were
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  as far as like the extra stretch and they're going to get them
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  aside that you kind of see a little bit more at least what
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  I've noticed at the prologue and which is the at college.
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  Yeah. And you know, you've been with
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  the G League team. Obviously you're going to have
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  some younger pros on your team, you know, maybe 2A contracts or
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  guys that are undrafted rookies coming in in in this year.
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  Like with some of those guys that are just coming from
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  college and especially some that might, you know, they might have
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  been one and done, they might be 19 years old right now.
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  Like have you seen them start to kind of learn that process and
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  learn those habits from seeing some of the other guys and kind
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  of see a difference between when they first started with the team
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  versus now as they've kind of assimilated to that environment?
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  Yeah, you do, especially with the young guys, but a lot of
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  time and when you get those guys who are two ways, like I think
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  it's cool about the NBA because they'll spend time with that NBA
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  franchise, whatever that program is.
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  So they're getting to see the top tier guys, you know, like so
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  the Grand Rapids go, they're in their affiliate is Denver
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  Nuggets. So a lot of our guys are two
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  ways. Like they were spending time
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  seeing, you know, saying Jamal Murray, you know, I'm saying
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  Yokich, who the MVP, who will be?
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  I mean, even some little, I mean, the first time I went out
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  there, they had me to the training camp.
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  Like he's the first dude down to breakfast.
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  And I think that's pretty cool because it's due to MVP And you
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  went out here and you see, you know, man, he's the first guy
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  out there sit at the table like being on time and set an
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  example. So I think they kind of get that
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  mold, but I think a lot of it too many, a lot of those guys
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  already had it. And it's reason why they're in
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  this space. You know what I'm saying?
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  In the 1st place, You know, I'm saying it's not like you really
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  kind of teach like obviously dudes have to grow up and
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  understand it, man. But a lot of these dudes come in
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  here with the pro monster already men because they're
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  dealing with agents or they maybe have someone who's
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  actually in their ear to them. Good advice on what they need to
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  do and just carry yourself as a quote which allowed them to be
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  here, which you kind of see, which once again, you get some
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  of those guys at that college level, man.
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  But I do see kind of a little bit of a transition.
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  They get to learn and get to be around and they get to see these
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  two MVPS or and they all sorts of like, well, I'm just going to
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  mimic what they do, help me get there, you know, so, but credit
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  to them and that's what everybody do, man, You, you
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  follow the grapes. You see what they do.
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  Good coaches, still good strength coaches still when I
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  see them as good and I like it. Hey I'm a using that so it can
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  help me out too. Yeah, that's great.
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  And kind of along those lines. So, right, you, you had a great
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  career as a basketball player yourself.
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  We got to relive we we got to relive those days a couple times
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  and then manage the games that over you.
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  But from, from your career and your experience as an athlete
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  and the coaches you were with, like what, what have you taken
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  from those experience? Like, like how does that impact
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  you as a coach? Like what are you taking from
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  that? What are you stealing from that?
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  What are you, what are you not stealing from that or saying,
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  hey, I'm going to do that differently from from what you
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  went through as a player? Yeah, well, I also think Tom is
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  different. I think everything about sports
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  evolves over time. Like and just like naturally,
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  you know, like to where even with the coaches I had, maybe
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  they didn't understand or didn't have the tools, the analytics
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  that we can have or stuff like that now.
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  And they help us coach in today's game, simplify things,
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  score to make it better. But man, I think the I think the
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  biggest thing is just kind of being relational.
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  I think as a player, you understand what coaches you have
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  relationships with and how it may be.
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  I think you also learn like I play for a guy who is super into
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  defense, like on the top defensive coaches, probably ever
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  that you will see, especially like nowadays, why I feel like
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  the game is kind of getting more and more towards offense and
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  what you have to do. You know, I'm saying super
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  defensive mind what I can get really good at this craft, but
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  the practice in just in the time and like, you know, I'm saying
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  like creating toughest, like the the the amount of time that we
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  practice was super long compared to what you will try to get
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  players to nowadays. Now, back then I didn't think
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  nothing of it. I mean, I was just a college
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  basketball player, like trying to this would coach say so, you
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  know, we got to do it. But nowadays it's like, well, do
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  I need that much time? I don't need to have those guys
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  in there that long. Or how can I find ways to still
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  get still get in here, do what I need to do?
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  Because nowadays, obviously the player of the tennis man, I
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  don't think he's that's long anyways.
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  Like those guys don't really want to be in there unless it's
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  kind of like doing skill development stuff like that.
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  But just trying to find a way, like I said, to mesh it all
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  together. How can I be shorter, keep those
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  guys in the gym, but still be effective and get all the things
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  that we need to do, whether it is learning how to play, trying
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  to raise our cues, and then also doing the things that we kind of
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  need to help our team get better.
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  But I think I play I I mean, I had great coaches, you know, I'm
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  saying they showing a lot. And I got to work with obviously
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  Tanner recruiting me and Steven FRC and I also got to work in
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  the AC. So I've just learned a lot.
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  Just learned a lot. Just seen the back day today and
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  even from like the business side of of college basketball team,
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  just on the course of recruiting and doing those type of things.
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  And you're saying you want a lot as far as how to recruit, where
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  to go and do things. Obviously I don't have to
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  recruit anymore, but I mean, I still miss it.
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  I have my itch some time doing it, but I still think you can
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  find it like help you. And then because of all those
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  things that I've seen like open up my mind to maybe I think it'd
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  be cool to be a junior. You know, I'm saying that kind
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  of to steal is this kind of like recruiting, But I still enjoy
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  kind of putting pieces together be a recruiting or helping this
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  guy come here and be successful. How can I get this player to
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  mesh with this player and just create a great roster to kind of
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  win championships? Yeah, except now there's longer
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  term contracts instead of nine months and they can leave every
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  year now. So and you know, you mentioned,
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  you mentioned that piece on like feeling like the attention span
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  is a little bit shorter now for players.
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  And then you mentioned like versus maybe skill development
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  where they might be a little more locked in.
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  Do you feel like there's kind of a shift where the the focus or
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  the attention span or the kind of intensity that a player will
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  put forth is like less towards team aspects of like practice
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  and the team versus, OK, if they're doing more like I'm
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  working with my coach or my skill guy and we're doing
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  one-on-one stuff and I'm working on my game, like I'm going to
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  have a higher attention span, a higher focus and intensity and a
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  little bit of a shift in nature there.
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  Yeah, I do. I mean, I think and I think it's
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  more so like I think they have it on the court.
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  It's more so where I noticed like the off the court.
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  You know what, I finished the probably the extra long film
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  session. So you know, it's like the over
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  complicated scouting report to where you're seeing so many
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  things. But I do think they are a more
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  engaged when you're using them to do this type of things.
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  Like I think every kid loves the skill development because and
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  never mind naturally, I mean, it is it's like my game is getting
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  better, like I'm working on things that I can use in the
• 13:27
  game to help me get there. But everybody who's an athlete
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  also also has to understand I don't just play basketball and
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  even like it's also five guys out here too.
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  So how can I incorporate what I do onto a team concept?
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  But I think that's also what goes into the training nowadays
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  and the build up to what they want to do.
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  But I think dudes just love the hoop, you know what I'm saying?
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  And I think it's more so like they don't like the drills, but
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  we all know we need drills to help us be better for team, you
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  know, But if you can show up and let guys just roll out the ball
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  and they want to hoop nowadays, I think that's what keeps them
• 13:57
  locked in because anything and they just they just love
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  playing. And these dudes like
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  professional ball players. And then even at the college,
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  like dudes want to go out there and they want to hoop.
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  So I I get it. But that's his own us as coaches
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  trying to figure out how we can, you know, manipulate, you know,
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  that manufacture things that's helping our team get better than
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  also man, that these dudes got to play.
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  Because the end of the day, like that is probably still one of
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  the best ways for you to learn how to develop is by some time
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  just going out. You know what I'm saying?
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  Just playing, you know, So I don't know, man, I think it's
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  kind of it's kind of curious. I'll be curious to see what you
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  think about the like from a strength standpoint as far as
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  like teaching them certain details, like teaching certain
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  details on lifts. Like how do you get, you know,
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  I'm saying some kids kind of stay engaged a lot.
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  It's very important because you can go out there and live.
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  You can get hurt. You know, I'm saying if you
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  don't understand certain details, thinking I'm just
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  trying to go out here and get strong or do this now.
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  So what's some things you can also?
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  Yeah, I know, I know you're doing an interview, man, but I
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  think just. I'd be curious.
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  Just awesome. For sure.
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  Like like I think I think always like when you're whether you're
• 14:54
  looking at like a micro or or macro view of it, like it's like
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  what is the most important information we need to give them
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  without giving them any more information than that?
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  And just like overloading or getting them bored because like
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  we just don't like you're saying if we throw too many things at
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  them, they're going to lose the stuff that we really need them
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  to get. So whether it's like, if I'm
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  going over a session, it's like depending like our experience
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  with those things, it's like, OK, if it's new stuff like let's
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  just go like a block or three exercises at a time, break that
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  down, execute a high level, get to the next thing.
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  If it's something where like we've done all these things, I'm
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  going to throw out this the, the points of emphasis or key
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  details, but not go over all the stuff that like I don't need to
• 15:33
  go over that they like they know.
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  And, and like I know that I can trust they're going to do like
• 15:37
  as I think about it from even just like a like a queuing
• 15:40
  standpoint or like if they're doing exercise and like how I
• 15:42
  coach this like what's I'm always going to look like,
• 15:44
  what's the, what's the thing that I can say that's going to
• 15:47
  impact other things downstream where like instead of needing
• 15:51
  the coach like 1-2, three and four, I want to, I want to, I
• 15:55
  want to focus them in on number one that can if they fix #1 is
• 15:59
  going to take care of 2-3 and four all at the same time
• 16:01
  because they fix number one. Yeah.
• 16:03
  That's good. But then it's also like it
• 16:06
  before even talking about from just like a not even like an X&O
• 16:10
  standpoint in the weight room, but more just like we're talking
• 16:13
  about expectations or the culture or the standards or
• 16:15
  whatever. It's like that.
• 16:16
  It's like I'm usually going to set at the beginning and then
• 16:19
  also at the end. But I've also, I would
• 16:21
  especially like we're like say we're going to or you.
• 16:23
  It's like, OK, are we coming straight from film?
• 16:27
  If we are like, I don't want to talk very much because they just
• 16:30
  were sitting down and getting talked to for 30 straight
• 16:33
  minutes. Like they just want to move and
• 16:34
  do something. They don't want to hear me talk
• 16:36
  more. So it's like, how quick can I be
• 16:38
  and just get to the stuff that we're trying to do and get them
• 16:40
  moving. Yeah.
• 16:41
  You know, there might be other times where maybe I'm the first
• 16:44
  thing and there's something we really need to cover and maybe
• 16:46
  I'll spend a little more time. But you know, if, you know, if I
• 16:48
  coach Springman was talking about a lot of stuff, maybe I
• 16:51
  just echo that and in a quick way and then emphasize that.
• 16:55
  But I don't, I don't need to give them the same speech they
• 16:57
  just got in practice 5 minutes before.
• 16:59
  So I think it's like always balancing like what are they
• 17:01
  getting? What do they need?
• 17:02
  Like what do they really need that I can hit?
• 17:06
  But what do they not need? I, I think a lot of times it's,
• 17:08
  you know, it's great. It's, it's important to think
• 17:10
  about like what, what do they not need to hear from me?
• 17:12
  And let's let's start there and cut all that out.
• 17:15
  Yeah, now that's good. I like that a lot.
• 17:17
  That's, that's, that's definitely always a, a, a hard,
• 17:20
  a a balance because it's like, you know, I think like you
• 17:23
  talked about scouts, like it's like there's these things we
• 17:25
  need them to know. I'm guessing from your
• 17:27
  perspective as a coach, it's always like, you know, they're
• 17:29
  especially you when you're doing the scout because you know, all
• 17:31
  the small details of it because you've been, you're the one
• 17:34
  who's been scouting. It's like, you know, I want to
• 17:36
  cover all of our bases out, you know, in case they do this
• 17:39
  sideline out of bounds and like we need to be ready for, you
• 17:41
  know, but it's like, you know, what do they really need to
• 17:43
  know? And and how can we get that in
• 17:46
  the head work? Like, because like you're
• 17:48
  saying, if you know, we're doing that, we're doing that scout,
• 17:50
  you know, right after or after our shoot around pregame and
• 17:53
  we're going for 40 minutes. It's like, how much is that
• 17:56
  helping them at that point versus just wearing them them
• 17:59
  out mentally before the game? Yeah, not at all.
• 18:02
  You know, and I, and I can say this now, I mean, you talk about
• 18:04
  me being a player and I was AI thought I had a decent career.
• 18:07
  I'm thankful, you know, I'm saying it was what it was.
• 18:09
  But they would give us a back then once again, it's I'm not
• 18:12
  that old man, but we getting up there a little bit.
• 18:14
  Boom. And so they would give us a, a,
• 18:16
  a personnel edit, like on a, you know, like a disc, like a DVD.
• 18:20
  So you were here, you were going to talk about it and you'd be in
• 18:23
  a locker room. And then we give this personal
• 18:26
  DVD and they're like, OK, man, go home and watch it, You know,
• 18:29
  and like, I maybe watched one or two.
• 18:31
  And at the end of the day, I'm like, man, you know, I'm not
• 18:32
  watching this anymore. Like in a day, like I got to go
• 18:34
  out there, I got to play hard. You know, I'm probably going to
• 18:36
  be like, once again, like thief from the team, Like I knew my
• 18:39
  Prince wasn't what I need to do. It really didn't matter.
• 18:41
  And I think that's also like encouraging to like for for me
• 18:44
  as a coach, it's like, well, if you can find things that get
• 18:46
  your team that do with this and do it really well, like you
• 18:49
  don't really have to adjust the player anymore.
• 18:51
  You just go out there and be you and it can lead to success.
• 18:54
  You know what I'm saying? If I can do what we do well at a
• 18:56
  high level, none of that stuff matters anyways, you know.
• 18:59
  So goes back to fine a reason to be good at one and he'll take
• 19:03
  care of 2-3 and four at the end of the day without being
• 19:05
  overload. No, I like that.
• 19:07
  Like I've always had a lot of respect for the team where it's
• 19:09
  like we're not like in the scouts, we're not changing like
• 19:12
  everything we do based on the team we're playing.
• 19:14
  Like we're going to be great at what, who we are.
• 19:16
  Like let's let the other team try and adapt to us and our
• 19:19
  playing style and how we do things.
• 19:20
  Obvious, obviously you're going to play to, you know, different
• 19:23
  tendencies and different strategies of the team.
• 19:25
  But like, you know, then there's other teams where it's like
• 19:27
  we're changing everything. Like, you know, we're putting in
• 19:30
  different plays for the team we're running and, and like
• 19:32
  basically changing who you are to try and fit the match up.
• 19:37
  So I've, I've always had a lot of respect for those teams.
• 19:38
  And I, I bet that aligns a lot what you were talking about
• 19:41
  earlier in the G league or the G League now, where it's like
• 19:43
  you've got to simplify everything.
• 19:45
  You can't do all that because you got new players coming in
• 19:49
  and like, how can we simplify all that and let them be in a
• 19:52
  position to just go play and like be US versus, you know, if
• 19:56
  they're coming in and trying to, it's their first day on a
• 19:58
  contract, they're about to play a game.
• 20:00
  Like you can't teach them everything about the other team
• 20:02
  and your team and they're all at the same time, you know?
• 20:04
  Man, could you, could you imagine, man?
• 20:06
  And then once again, the the right internal like you
• 20:09
  shouldn't leave like a Kyrie Irving going to Dallas
• 20:13
  Mavericks. I mean, he'll get there.
• 20:15
  I mean, he'd probably go through what he needs to wear this
• 20:17
  Guinness physical and everything, but then he's an
• 20:18
  extra line up in 2 days, you know what I'm saying?
• 20:21
  Like we will get a player literally we play at 7.
• 20:24
  He got in at 2, he got in at 11 to where it's our shoot around.
• 20:28
  I mean, it's a quick walkthrough was a quick script to show what
• 20:31
  he needs to do and then we're expecting him.
• 20:32
  It's a chance that we might need to come play minutes like you
• 20:35
  want to play, so you need to be ready, you know?
• 20:37
  So like it's just like I said, it has to be simple and like it
• 20:40
  always it made me curious to see like if college was able to
• 20:43
  trade players. I know they can't do it, but
• 20:45
  today's able to trade players. How lost some players could be
• 20:48
  to be like, OK, well, I'm playing with this team because
• 20:50
  college is such a like system based to where one team could be
• 20:54
  running nothing but five out playing off passing cuts.
• 20:58
  Another team could be playing off straight side pick and roll.
• 21:00
  Another team could be running straight motion to where all we
• 21:03
  do is playoff screens and how to read screens.
• 21:06
  But then if you start trading these these players around when
• 21:09
  I'm used to be, I've been running, I've been trying to
• 21:11
  playoff screens for three months and now I'm going to a ball
• 21:13
  screen motion team. I'm not that lost.
• 21:15
  Like you can't play that guy in college.
• 21:17
  You know what I'm saying? But that's the IQ and like, and
• 21:19
  that's what I'll take pride in as far as when I do skill
• 21:22
  development to even at the cops. That was like, well, how can I
• 21:25
  always you're not going to always be a college player.
• 21:27
  You want to leave college, you want to be a pro.
• 21:28
  Like, how can I still help you learn how to play in different
• 21:31
  systems, different ways? That still not going against my
• 21:34
  my head coach here and what he wants you to do, But it's still
• 21:37
  also letting me know that you're still running the game.
• 21:40
  So when you are in a situation or if you need to go play a
• 21:42
  football screen, at least I know what I may.
• 21:45
  I have my options or I kind of been through this situation
• 21:47
  before. Yeah.
• 21:49
  And essentially it is funny because like in college, there's
• 21:52
  players that, you know, let's say like a freshman that might
• 21:54
  come in. They're there June, you know,
• 21:56
  first week of June all the way till November of of being able
• 22:00
  to prepare and practice and training that still aren't ready
• 22:03
  like to know the plays and know how to run everything.
• 22:06
  You know, that's months and months and months.
• 22:07
  And then you got pro players coming in one day and be able to
• 22:10
  do it. It's a very, very big difference
• 22:12
  there. You know, you mentioned you
• 22:15
  mentioned the stuff about the GM you mentioned before, like if
• 22:18
  you became a head coach, what, what what is like the long term
• 22:22
  pursuit? Is it to become a head coach as
• 22:24
  like one of your big goals? I think a year ago that was
• 22:28
  definitely what I wanted to be a divisional head coach, which I
• 22:32
  still am hoping I haven't. Once again, I do love everything
• 22:35
  off the pro level, but I haven't like stepped away and said I'm
• 22:38
  not doing college anymore. Like coaching is coaching
• 22:41
  impacting people is, is the same feeling that you get, whether
• 22:43
  it's coaching pros, coaching college, coaching high school,
• 22:46
  like I just love coaching. I love hoops, I love ball, you
• 22:48
  know, so it really don't matter what I do.
• 22:49
  And at the end of the day, like whatever the Lord has for me,
• 22:52
  that's why I'm going to follow and what I need to do then.
• 22:54
  But well, definitely still love being a head coach, but now
• 22:56
  they're kind of being here at the pro.
• 22:57
  I enjoyed pro was like an NBA assistant will be good.
• 23:00
  And then also to like looking into kind of maybe being a
• 23:04
  general manager, you know, like kind of fun office behind the
• 23:07
  scenes where it's kind of like steal.
• 23:09
  I still get my basketball fixed as far as being around seeing
• 23:12
  dudes play and do it. Do they do it in the day?
• 23:14
  But, and also to, it's kind of like I still get the X&O's fixed
• 23:18
  and also still kind of get the recruiting and managing and
• 23:22
  putting A-Team together fixes where you know, so I don't know,
• 23:25
  man. I'm literally, literally like
• 23:27
  one day at a time. And at the end of it, it
• 23:30
  literally is like whatever the Lord has for me, man.
• 23:32
  But I'm opening all those type of things down to being in this
• 23:34
  PO space has opened up the door for media world.
• 23:37
  I also think being a general manager of something is
• 23:39
  definitely something I might have some interesting and down
• 23:41
  the road as I can see to learn more about the pro game and be
• 23:44
  around. But right now and I, I, I would
• 23:46
  love to be in the assistant. Yeah, no, that's awesome.
• 23:49
  You know, just before you talking about what it's high
• 23:52
  school college pro, just like being able to impact and coach
• 23:55
  players at any level. You know, when when I had the
• 23:58
  conversation with with Isaac McBride and he he he talked
• 24:01
  about the example of of how you impacted him.
• 24:04
  How do you think about as a coach set an example for for the
• 24:07
  athletes you're around and impacting them through the way
• 24:10
  you're going through your your day-to-day?
• 24:12
  Oh. Man, first of all, man, I think
• 24:14
  it's a blessing to even like kind of impact someone that type
• 24:17
  of way. And then sometime they're like,
• 24:20
  you get to just going through, you know that and you don't even
• 24:21
  know that's what you're doing, you know, which opens up your
• 24:24
  eyes too. It's like, man, it's actually,
• 24:25
  you know what I'm saying? Things actually working, but God
• 24:27
  is actually moving around or using you as a vessel to connect
• 24:31
  people, man. But I don't know, man.
• 24:32
  One of my biggest thing when I got into coaching, man was
• 24:34
  always trying to help do if you're closer to God or
• 24:37
  strengthen that faith as I'm in the space around basketball and
• 24:41
  around coaching. I've always thought that like I
• 24:44
  didn't really read the Bible when I was in college.
• 24:46
  So once I like kind of try to build my relationship with God,
• 24:48
  I try to read on my own. I always thought that, man, if I
• 24:50
  can get these dudes to just open it up, you know, I'm saying, and
• 24:53
  God will take care of the rest. I can't lead them to to to to
• 24:56
  God and I can't handle open up their hearts.
• 24:59
  But if I can just man show him what the scripture may be
• 25:02
  helping kind of understand Scripture a little bit more what
• 25:04
  it can do. You know, I'm saying for
• 25:05
  players, man, but I just so we try to live out like, you know,
• 25:08
  I'm sending one day at a time, be thankful.
• 25:10
  Everything. I understand it's going to be
• 25:11
  hard times, bad times, you know, but an end day Lord is always
• 25:14
  faithful, you know, So I just try to you just you just do it.
• 25:17
  And then you just don't know. Sometimes the impact you may
• 25:19
  have all the people by just doing your your normal day
• 25:22
  today, man. But man, I, I just try to still
• 25:24
  be positive, always try to show up every single day, no matter
• 25:27
  what the circumstance is. And I think obviously we can see
• 25:29
  what it been a testimony to tithing, but it actually works
• 25:33
  and actually influencing people that.
• 25:34
  So I'm just, I'm just thankful. But after not even could be in
• 25:36
  that space, not even do that someone else, you know what I'm
• 25:38
  saying that I think that's what life's all about.
• 25:40
  And how can we influence and help someone else out of
• 25:42
  ourselves? Yeah, that, no, that's
• 25:44
  incredible. How does you know how how does
• 25:48
  like your faith that you're talking about a lot?
• 25:50
  How's that shaped how you view and define success within the
• 25:55
  world of basketball and coaching?
• 25:57
  Yeah, well, man, it's, it's everything, you know what I'm
• 25:59
  saying? Because I think if I didn't have
• 26:02
  faith, it'd be easy for me to just think that everything that
• 26:06
  I do is based off wins, wins, losses and how much money I can
• 26:11
  make, you know? And so like understanding those
• 26:13
  things are just, it's just a win, you know what I'm saying?
• 26:16
  It's just a dollar, you know what I'm saying?
• 26:18
  It allows me not to chase those things in my career.
• 26:21
  And so when you're going through a stretch to where we losing
• 26:24
  games, you know, we all know how it works nowadays.
• 26:26
  And in our profession, you lose first thing you think about me,
• 26:29
  you don't get fired. So it allowed me not to kind of
• 26:31
  like change up who I was because I kind of feel like my identity
• 26:35
  has always been a God and it didn't matter whether I was
• 26:38
  coaching at the highest level, being a multi millionaire, coach
• 26:41
  at the biggest Division One or shoot, you know, I'm saying
• 26:44
  flipping burgers and McDonald's. God is always good.
• 26:46
  He's always faithful and I'm very thankful for wherever he,
• 26:50
  whatever space he puts me in because I get to do life.
• 26:53
  You know what I'm saying? Like with him.
• 26:55
  So I think he's like it, it it's even because it's like what
• 26:57
  things are doing. I'm never too, I'm never too
• 27:00
  high like, oh, shoot, like this is what it is like making my
• 27:03
  identity and then things are bad.
• 27:04
  It's the same deal. It's not my identity.
• 27:06
  And I'm not really stressing because the end of the day, you
• 27:08
  know, I'm saying like God has a plan for everything.
• 27:10
  He has him and everything, and some things, if it happens, I
• 27:13
  don't understand, it happens for a reason.
• 27:14
  So I need to figure out why it's happened or what is God trying
• 27:17
  to tell me in this space or in this situation or in the
• 27:19
  circumstances to bring me closer to him.
• 27:21
  And ultimately, good or bad, he gets out of war.
• 27:24
  Yeah. No, I love that.
• 27:26
  It's, it's like, like you're talking about if, if, if you're
• 27:29
  anchored to the, you know, the wins and losses of, of your
• 27:33
  season of your career, like you're going to be on a roller
• 27:38
  coaster ride every day, every month.
• 27:40
  Like there's, there's no constancies.
• 27:42
  Like he's got to have an anchor to something outside of all
• 27:46
  that, that fluctuation that that's going to happen every
• 27:49
  day, every moment. Like that gives what you're
• 27:52
  talking about that that constancy to you, to your own
• 27:54
  life. Yeah, I mean, no more man.
• 27:57
  It's not easy, you know what I'm saying?
• 27:58
  We are still normal and we all want those things like we still
• 28:01
  want to make money and then I still want to win.
• 28:04
  You know what I'm saying? Like I'm not saying I just don't
• 28:06
  care. You know what I'm saying, what
• 28:07
  I'm doing, man. But I definitely I'm I'm, I'm a
• 28:09
  competitor. I still want to win, but it just
• 28:11
  helps me understand like the big picture in life, like losses
• 28:14
  never really define you. I mean, no matter who you are,
• 28:17
  the hottest coach now you're going to be up a little bit, but
• 28:19
  gravity, man, like it's going to be times where you where you
• 28:21
  not, you know what I'm saying? So kind of just who are you in
• 28:24
  those times? What can you show?
• 28:26
  And then also, man, you got to help me to help me understand.
• 28:27
  And like, that's what life is going to be about.
• 28:29
  Like it's not going to always be good.
• 28:31
  It's not always going to be bad. You have a bad name and you got
• 28:33
  to come home on the, you know, adults.
• 28:35
  And then you got to be, we got to be husbands.
• 28:36
  You know, I'm saying we have to be followers.
• 28:38
  We got to be, you know, I'm saying like great brothers,
• 28:40
  great sisters, great mentors, whoever that was.
• 28:42
  But if you let certain things affect you and now that could
• 28:45
  possibly affect someone else in that space and not help them get
• 28:48
  to where they need to be. Or you know, I'm saying like
• 28:51
  this show then what what the faith and what a strong
• 28:53
  foundation in God can do for you.
• 28:55
  Like you can allow you to get to anything.
• 28:57
  Yeah, No, no, that's so good. You know, I want to, I want to
• 29:01
  shift gears a little bit and, and I right, you're in, you're
• 29:05
  in the G League now. But I want to get your take a
• 29:08
  little bit on, on recruiting from, for the perspective of
• 29:14
  kids in high school right now and how they should be looking
• 29:17
  at recruitment from your experience in the last couple
• 29:20
  years of what things look like right now.
• 29:22
  So like, if, if I'm a high school athlete right now, like
• 29:25
  how should I be approaching, how should I be approaching my
• 29:29
  recruitment? Like if I want to, if I want to
• 29:30
  go play in college, And obviously it's harder now as a
• 29:33
  high schooler with the portal and with the way things are to
• 29:36
  get recruited, What can I do to put myself in the best position
• 29:40
  to still have a chance to go play in college?
• 29:43
  Man, that's good, man. I would think because I know
• 29:45
  like a lot of high school players nowadays think man,
• 29:47
  recruiting is just is down for me.
• 29:49
  You know what I'm saying? Like you got coaches out here
• 29:51
  saying we just want all the kids want to do this, want to do
• 29:54
  that, man. But I think if you're a high
• 29:55
  school player, I think you got to continue to follow the game.
• 29:59
  I think strength condition is kind of a little bit more
• 30:01
  important. I'm not saying more important,
• 30:03
  but I think it's a more of a premium premium on it nowadays
• 30:07
  because you're dealing with the older key is and being able to
• 30:10
  play. So like the more ready you are
• 30:12
  physically from the standpoint, I can kind of give you a better
• 30:14
  chance of probably coming in and impacting the team or being able
• 30:17
  to help the team. But I think at the end of the
• 30:19
  day, man, it's like you got to just come in and play hard, you
• 30:22
  know what I'm saying? Like you got to be willing to do
• 30:25
  the things that people aren't willing to do.
• 30:27
  I do think yes, you should work in your game and try to be a
• 30:29
  scorer and learn how to play the game in.
• 30:32
  But I don't think scoring needs to be your meal ticket to be
• 30:35
  like, man, if I can just score it, this coach won't want me to
• 30:37
  come. Be coachable, play hard,
• 30:40
  nothing. Once again, nowadays, I feel
• 30:41
  like the game is getting solely towards offense, offense often.
• 30:45
  So if you can come in and be a lockdown defender as a freshman,
• 30:48
  you've got to find a way to get minutes.
• 30:49
  Do what you need to do. You know what I'm saying?
• 30:50
  Obviously you got to take care of other things outside the
• 30:52
  court, man. But if I'm a fresh, I'm not a
• 30:54
  freshman. If I'm coming into college as a
• 30:56
  freshman now, my number one goal is just trying to find a way to
• 30:58
  get on the floor, like do something at a high enough rate
• 31:00
  to a coach me telling me that I cannot be on the floor.
• 31:02
  And I think it's going to be one of the things I got a senior who
• 31:05
  I just can't score more points and like he is a certified
• 31:07
  scorer. They transferred me and they
• 31:09
  brought him in here to get buckets.
• 31:10
  I get it. I I love it.
• 31:12
  So what can I do? I'm going to regard the best
• 31:14
  player I can win loose balls. I can take charges, do whatever
• 31:17
  coach you're telling me do at a high, high level and be
• 31:20
  coachable. Just allow me get a little bit
• 31:22
  of time and more time you get, the more you impact the game,
• 31:25
  the longer you're on the floor, the longer you get to showcase
• 31:27
  your skills to coach and also continue to do better than.
• 31:30
  But I would just say, man, just find a way to kind of like play
• 31:32
  hard and do something super, super good that's not scoring
• 31:36
  that a coach can resist because we're always look for players to
• 31:39
  come in, bring energy to a team, have a good mindset, the vocal
• 31:43
  communicate. You do those at a good level.
• 31:45
  I can give yourself a chance to play no matter where you going
• 31:47
  or where you are. But like as a high school kid,
• 31:49
  like I need to do something outside fun awaiting impact the
• 31:52
  game outside of school and. I think that's such a good
• 31:54
  point. I mean, because, you know, I
• 31:56
  think that is the mindset of most high schools.
• 31:58
  Like they're looking at how many points I've scored in terms of
• 32:01
  who they're going to recruit that like that's that's the
• 32:03
  mindset I hear a lot. But it's like from the college
• 32:06
  that's like, we're not, we're not bringing in, you know, six
• 32:09
  people to average 17 points a game like that.
• 32:13
  The the the numbers don't work out there.
• 32:15
  And it's like we need role players.
• 32:17
  And like, like you're saying, I think there's, there's like
• 32:20
  everybody wants to be the guy with the ball in their hand.
• 32:22
  They're all, you know, shooting all the shots.
• 32:23
  But it's like if you can take like take that different
• 32:26
  perspective, like that's going to give you such an upper leg of
• 32:28
  actually, like you're saying, get in on the court first,
• 32:31
  right? Because especially as you're
• 32:32
  competing against 2223 year olds now, like they're probably going
• 32:36
  to bring in somebody from the portal to be, you know, their
• 32:38
  their main people scoring the ball.
• 32:40
  So it's like, how can I go and play 10 minutes of incredible
• 32:42
  defense, do all the things coach needs me to do and be ready to
• 32:45
  do that? So I yeah, I think that's such
• 32:47
  such a good advice right there. Yeah, they got to and also too,
• 32:51
  but you can see that the genie level 2 like you got to think
• 32:54
  about if I'm a OK, Kevin Durant is my favorite player.
• 32:56
  If I'm on the G League team for the Houston Rockets and I'm
• 33:00
  another wing and they got this dude, they've already one of the
• 33:03
  best scores ever in the league. I love the score too.
• 33:05
  Maybe I was a top scorer on my college team.
• 33:07
  Maybe I'm even in G league averaging 20 points, but they
• 33:10
  don't need me to do that. So like, and it's like I think
• 33:13
  it's it's it's hard for people to adapt to and pros and figured
• 33:16
  out too is like, well, I'm going to be 3 and D like I'm just
• 33:18
  going to knock down an open shot every time I touch it.
• 33:21
  I'm trying to find Kevin Berman. But one thing I know I'm a go
• 33:23
  out there and I'm a go out the best player.
• 33:25
  Get on the floor, be talking every single day.
• 33:27
  And it may be this organization may want me to come and play
• 33:30
  along those good players. And then once you're there, I'm
• 33:32
  saying they get a feel. They understand who you are.
• 33:34
  And I think that's where your your career.
• 33:36
  Can you know I'm saying try to take off?
• 33:38
  Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome.
• 33:40
  You know, you mentioned how both we we, we first worked together
• 33:43
  at Abilene Christian and both got to be around some really
• 33:46
  special teams, really special program in that time, you know,
• 33:49
  couple, couple conference championships, couple trips to
• 33:52
  the tournament, obviously, you know, the upset over Texas and
• 33:56
  the tournament. You know, especially like that
• 33:58
  team, those really good teams around those years.
• 34:01
  Like what would you say like the the special qualities about that
• 34:05
  team that allows, allows them to go beat a Texas that's
• 34:10
  obviously, you know, way taller, way, way more athletic.
• 34:13
  You know, a lot more talented guys go into the league.
• 34:16
  What? What allows that team to come
• 34:18
  together be greater than the sum of its individual parts?
• 34:23
  I think what a lot of those guys be together first up, they got
• 34:25
  to play together for multiple years.
• 34:27
  Yeah. You know, like we had some dudes
• 34:30
  who play together for three years who was freshman up to
• 34:33
  being juniors, you know what I'm saying?
• 34:35
  Or who came in, who was transferred and still got to
• 34:37
  understand and adapt and play with guys for multiple times.
• 34:40
  Which once again, like we talked about earlier, it's kind of hard
• 34:43
  to see nowadays because, I mean, nil, you have one good season,
• 34:47
  someone else could pay you more money at the end.
• 34:49
  That wasn't really the, the, the, the deal.
• 34:51
  You know, I'm saying like we didn't really pay players.
• 34:53
  Your payment was scholarship. So when you can create a group
• 34:56
  of guys who can play together, who can go through things with a
• 34:59
  certain amount of time, like, I mean, you got a pretty good
• 35:01
  team, You know what I'm saying? Anything that could be anybody
• 35:04
  outside of the culture and outside of the hard nosed
• 35:06
  mindset, outside of just being super defensive minded and what
• 35:09
  we do saying they was used to playing hard.
• 35:10
  They've been through some things together.
• 35:13
  So they were super close. And you know how like close
• 35:15
  teams do when guys love playing with each other, it's a scary
• 35:17
  thing. And then no matter who you are,
• 35:19
  any, anybody could lose on any given day against a against a
• 35:23
  better team. I think Texas had more talented
• 35:25
  players. Absolutely.
• 35:26
  They have pros and everything and but I definitely think we
• 35:28
  played harder than they did that day and we were a more connected
• 35:32
  team just doing that stretch which allow us to get our first
• 35:37
  ever. It's a tournament win happened
• 35:38
  in Christian history. That's why the biggest man I
• 35:40
  got, you know, I've seen in my career so far.
• 35:42
  I mean, it was it was pretty cool and it was a good
• 35:44
  experience, man. But those dudes love each other.
• 35:46
  They do well playing together and they just they just been
• 35:48
  through some things together saying it's like life, man.
• 35:50
  They got they got to go to life a little bit better than it was
• 35:52
  a close knit group. Yeah.
• 35:54
  Do you think that those type of upsets or Cinderella stories are
• 35:59
  probably going to be a lot more, a lot rarer nowadays with like
• 36:03
  what you're saying now? Usually now it's like if you're,
• 36:05
  if you had a level of a school like that, if you're really,
• 36:08
  really good, you have a really good year, you're probably going
• 36:10
  to a different school after that year now.
• 36:13
  I think you'll still have them because I think that the the
• 36:16
  constant cycle of like getting new players and still been able
• 36:19
  to have the teams is still going to happen nowadays.
• 36:21
  Even though you had an IL, like I think it would still be
• 36:24
  upsets, but I just don't know. I don't know, Like I don't know
• 36:29
  if you'll just see it to where it's like, well, these dudes
• 36:31
  been playing together for three years.
• 36:33
  They've been through a lot, you know, like it's more so that's
• 36:36
  so they really don't go on paper.
• 36:37
  You know, I'm saying if that if that makes sense, like to see
• 36:40
  Damon Joe being from the same area, both come in as freshmen.
• 36:44
  Like we talked about playing little minutes as freshmen,
• 36:47
  letting those times grow as to more time all the way up to them
• 36:50
  being, you know, I'm saying like juniors and seniors, like, I
• 36:53
  just don't know if that will be the case.
• 36:55
  And like that's what made it unique because, man, you saw all
• 36:58
  the hard work and put it on a daily basis together and what
• 37:00
  they've been through together. And then they get that win and
• 37:03
  it kind of just like solidified everything.
• 37:05
  I think you'll still be upset, but I think it's just it's just
• 37:07
  part of college ballots and what now.
• 37:08
  But I don't know if it would be a situation where it's like
• 37:12
  players are really like spending three or two to I'm saying like
• 37:16
  3 years together and together and actually growing and
• 37:18
  creating a bond, friendship within himself as men and then
• 37:21
  they have to sit on the court and had those experiences.
• 37:23
  Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you know, tell you if
• 37:26
  if a core group of people do do that, a program that'll be a
• 37:29
  cheat code for sure within the current landscape that, you
• 37:33
  know, like you're saying, maybe even if they didn't have as much
• 37:35
  talent or whatever. Like if, if you do that for
• 37:37
  three or four years and you stick that out, like you're
• 37:39
  going to probably be a really, really good team where there's
• 37:42
  three whole cycles of new teams and other programs through that
• 37:45
  time. Yeah.
• 37:46
  So it's just, but I don't know. Do you think it's still possible
• 37:48
  though? Yeah, I mean, I think it's that
• 37:50
  probably not as much, probably not as much because I because I
• 37:53
  feel like that was the event, you know, maybe some of these
• 37:55
  bigger schools where they do have the pro players leaving
• 37:57
  early and cycling through not as much continuity there.
• 38:00
  And you know, like at ACU we had those guys together that have
• 38:03
  been in the system. They they've been with each
• 38:05
  other like, you know, they have that.
• 38:07
  And I feel like that's going to be harder.
• 38:08
  Like there might be certain places where like, hey, this
• 38:11
  group's where we are going to stick together, where are going
• 38:13
  to stay, You know? I think 11, the advantage to it
• 38:17
  might be those with all the big schools usually drawing more
• 38:21
  from the portal. Some of the like the better
• 38:23
  freshmen are going to leak down to some of the smaller schools.
• 38:26
  I feel like because they're not getting as taken as much a
• 38:29
  little harder. So there might be some more
• 38:31
  higher level freshmen at some of these smaller schools a little
• 38:34
  bit and that might gel with a group that's been there for a
• 38:37
  while and you know, all results in a great year.
• 38:39
  I'm going to have some of those upsets, but I think it's
• 38:42
  definitely, definitely. Yeah.
• 38:43
  And it's like, well, it's kind of hard because those guys also
• 38:45
  like they came in with chips, you know, like you get some kids
• 38:49
  from JUCO who they didn't have any Vision 1.
• 38:51
  So they feel like, OK, like people have told me that I'm
• 38:54
  coming in trying to prove something, you know, like, and
• 38:57
  they have to kind of stay because, you know, I'm saying
• 38:59
  like not saying they're not good enough to go anywhere else.
• 39:00
  But it wasn't just so let me come quick, grab you and do
• 39:03
  those type of things. Like, well, that's kind of why I
• 39:05
  met my coach believed in me. There is no money talks.
• 39:08
  There's no other things are like I'm here to kind of, you know
• 39:10
  what I'm saying, Give them all for wherever this school is.
• 39:12
  Like I think, I don't think there's really no more like plan
• 39:15
  for university anymore. Plan for it's more so your last
• 39:18
  name, which I get it. I understand.
• 39:19
  Like some people go through things and this is life changing
• 39:22
  money and they can change their lives, their family lives.
• 39:24
  So I understand and what it is man like the kids are also the
• 39:27
  the Max agent of the world who can go through be at wood school
• 39:30
  for four years under recruited player had a great career and he
• 39:33
  wanted to decide deal figure go to Texas like all those type of
• 39:36
  things. I'm all for and I'm not against
• 39:37
  people wanting to get money. But yeah, he still continue to
• 39:40
  stay at a program for certain amount of time which can kind of
• 39:42
  build once again success. Another example crazy run for
• 39:45
  that Oral Roberts team was really good for them to do is
• 39:48
  also stay and they also play together for two to three years.
• 39:52
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Know for sure you know for
• 39:56
  yourself in in coaching, like what what are the what are the
• 40:00
  internal debates that you have in your own head as a coach that
• 40:03
  you find yourself often debating yourself on?
• 40:05
  Like, should I do this? Should do that?
• 40:06
  Like, you know, just different decisions that you come upon.
• 40:09
  Now that's a great question. I think the biggest, the biggest
• 40:12
  internal debate that I had. Now, I don't know if this
• 40:14
  actually is like a debate. Maybe it's maybe not.
• 40:18
  I think the hardest struggle for me is continue to, let's say
• 40:21
  you're dealing with a player or you're coaching and you feel
• 40:24
  like you're more invested in that player, you know, and where
• 40:28
  it's like, well, I don't have to.
• 40:29
  I'm not playing, you know what I'm saying?
• 40:31
  Like you get to play, like you can change your life.
• 40:33
  I'm I'm solely here because I'm invested in you.
• 40:35
  And like, sometimes it just comes from maturity.
• 40:37
  They don't see it or some kids like like it is what it is.
• 40:40
  Like I don't really, they may not love it as much not and I
• 40:43
  think that's the debate to where it's like, well, do you keep if
• 40:46
  you fight this kids giving up where he's not seeing it how you
• 40:50
  see? And do you kind of like, OK, not
• 40:53
  investing as much or kind of shift the focus elsewhere?
• 40:56
  Or it's like, well, no, you shouldn't show me every single
• 40:58
  day because all it takes is 111 switch and then maybe they can
• 41:03
  get it, you know, and then or maybe they see that, Oh, that's
• 41:07
  the reason for them to do less of what they are already doing
• 41:10
  because they feel like, OK, coach is kind of like, I know
• 41:12
  he's on me, man. Now he owe me even less.
• 41:15
  Like now he not really invested. So like that may be the biggest
• 41:18
  or make the hardest thing that I kind of deal with as far as
• 41:21
  coaching that want to where some days you don't want to show up,
• 41:27
  but you still need to show up. You know what I'm saying?
• 41:29
  Because of of what it still may do just for not just for them,
• 41:33
  but also for yourself. Like this one is one of the best
• 41:35
  things you can have. And I think one of the main, one
• 41:38
  of the main focus for this one is like showing up when you
• 41:40
  don't want to, you know, nothing that can help you get to certain
• 41:42
  places and achieve certain things all about the people
• 41:45
  because it's something that's not easy to do.
• 41:47
  Yeah, You know, I mean, yeah, that that's, those are hard
• 41:50
  situations. I, I think that can be really
• 41:53
  draining. Like when when you are given so
• 41:55
  much and you want someone for the person, it's like, like why,
• 41:57
  why, why won't you do this for yourself, you know?
• 42:00
  And yeah, that is hard. It's like, yeah, how do I do I
• 42:02
  approach it a different way? Do I push hard?
• 42:05
  Do I push harder? Do I pull back?
• 42:07
  You know that. Yeah.
• 42:08
  That. Yeah.
• 42:08
  I don't know that there's a, there's a, there's never a a
• 42:11
  perfect answer for that, I feel like.
• 42:13
  Like when you when you figure it out, let me know.
• 42:14
  If anybody listen who knows the answer they can comment.
• 42:17
  Yeah, please check it out. Find us direct.
• 42:21
  On the kind of the other hand of that, like when, when do you
• 42:24
  feel closest to your purpose in coaching?
• 42:26
  Man, I think it's just in, I think when I get to have
• 42:29
  conference, like when I get to know a player, actually know
• 42:31
  them outside of basketball, I feel close.
• 42:34
  I think it's super good when I finally get to have a
• 42:37
  conversation about faith. Just no matter what's what they
• 42:39
  are, you know what I'm saying? Just kind of see if it's
• 42:42
  something that they're into or if they even believe or just
• 42:45
  talk about God, maybe something understand.
• 42:48
  I think it's also cool when I feel close, when they may ask
• 42:50
  questions, like I see how you kind of like carry yourself,
• 42:53
  like, you know, I'm just kind of curious to see like I got a
• 42:55
  question about this, like how can you help?
• 42:57
  There's no sometimes like, well, I don't know if I can answer
• 43:00
  right now, but I can try to find out like, but I just accepted
• 43:03
  the wind of that man. Even they like just because they
• 43:05
  asked me about it. Like it's all like it's this joy
• 43:07
  and it's a blessing. You know, situations just once
• 43:11
  again, when things get you know what I'm saying hard and that
• 43:15
  the adversity hit is really when I feel like man, I'm close to
• 43:18
  semi purpose, man, because like I feel like that's the best time
• 43:21
  of the show. People through character are
• 43:23
  like when things to defend tunes could change, demeanors could
• 43:26
  change, whether it could change, it's like, no, I'm just going to
• 43:28
  continue to if anything, I'm going to try to go harder, you
• 43:30
  know, I'm saying, or be a little bit better.
• 43:32
  I'm saying all few about, you know, I'm saying the glory of
• 43:35
  God, you know, but that's when I kind of feel like I'm in my
• 43:39
  purpose and then at times, well, like me, and I'm probably here
• 43:42
  for a reason. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I, I love
• 43:45
  that. And you know, you know, from,
• 43:47
  from walking through some of those times with you and, and
• 43:50
  seeing the example, you say you've done an incredible job.
• 43:53
  And I know something like we talked about before, it's like
• 43:54
  sometimes you don't know the impact you're making.
• 43:57
  Like you're just, you're just living your life.
• 43:59
  You know, I know you, your, your example impacted me and other
• 44:04
  coaches. Obviously you know Kasich's
• 44:06
  example, but other players too, and other players in the past
• 44:09
  teams, you know, I'm sure within the new organization you're now,
• 44:12
  it might look different, but I'm, I'm confident the impact
• 44:16
  you're making and just the incredible example you're
• 44:18
  setting as as a man. I appreciate it man, now I'm
• 44:21
  trying once again. I've I've also same day with
• 44:24
  you, man, I've been able to work with good, good people will be
• 44:27
  around. Like I think it's pretty cool.
• 44:28
  Like the first both vision ones I worked at, you know, some
• 44:31
  majority of my time and they were great based institutions.
• 44:33
  You know, I'm saying where this is stuff that we can kind of we
• 44:36
  could do. We could talk about these type
• 44:37
  of things. You know, I'm saying it could be
• 44:38
  present, you know, and it's not pretty probably like other
• 44:41
  universities. And then so I think everybody
• 44:44
  that's on stab, they were there for a reason and for those
• 44:46
  reasons, you know, so we just like I said, man, iron shop and
• 44:48
  iron. And so I probably don't say
• 44:50
  enough as far as credible. There's been no situation for
• 44:52
  being around coaches of the faith or who had that monster
• 44:56
  too has definitely helped me too, man, because as we know,
• 44:58
  man, we need each other to to kind of feed off man because you
• 45:01
  can understand how tough it can get just in these moments.
• 45:03
  Yeah, yeah. And I love it, man.
• 45:06
  This has been an awesome conversation, man.
• 45:07
  I'd love to get to talk with you and just kind of where this is
• 45:10
  gone. It's been really, really cool.
• 45:12
  So man, I'm grateful that you came on and did this.
• 45:15
  And I appreciate you having me, man.
• 45:17
  I appreciate it, man. I love what you doing with the
• 45:18
  podcast, man. Keep it up.
• 45:20
  Thank you, hope you get some some great rest is, you know,
• 45:23
  last little bit of the All Star break for you.
• 45:25
  All right, man. Sounds good, man.
• 45:26
  You do the same. Instead of fam, I say hello.
• 45:29
  If you enjoyed this conversation and want to go deeper, check out
• 45:32
  my book Strength in Numbers, Insight from Top Coaches, and
• 45:35
  How to Build your Career, Handle failure, and Achieve long term
• 45:39
  Coaching Success. It brings together insights and
• 45:42
  wisdom from over 100 coaches across all levels in sports.
• 45:46
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• 45:50
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• 45:53
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• 45:55
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