Latest / Pod Save America / “Fetterman vs The Phony Sociopath.”

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“Fetterman vs The Phony Sociopath.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, Jon Fetterman debates Dr.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Oz.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Democrats start to panic because what else is new? Nevada
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Senator Catherine Cortez Masto joins to talk about her race.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Oregon gubernatorial candidate Tina Kotek joins to talk about her race.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And then comedian Mike Birbiglia joins to talk about his
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: new Broadway show, The Old Man in the Pool, and
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: what it's like to star in a Taylor Swift video.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It's a great interview. It's a great interview. Just stick
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: around for the end for some fun. But first, check
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: out Crooked Media's newest podcast, Work Appropriate, hosted by author
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and journalist Anne Helen Peterson. If you've ever messaged a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: friend about a manager who won't stop texting after hours
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: or a co-worker who keeps posting weirdly suggestive Austin Powers
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: gifs in Slack, you're not alone. On this pod, Anne
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: sets out to find solutions to these oddly specific yet
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: completely universal listener-submitted questions. Whether you work in an office
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: chair or a sixth-grade classroom, the problems may be limitless,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: but so are the solutions. Listen to the first episode
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of Work Appropriate now, wherever you get your podcasts. Anne
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Helen Peterson is fantastic. It's a great podcast. Definitely go
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: check it out. Definitely go check it out. All right,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: let's get to the news. The only debate in one
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of the country's most important Senate races took place in
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania on Tuesday between John Fetterman, who's still recovering from
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: a stroke, and Dr. Oz, who will never recover from
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: being a pee-drinking, puppy-killing, quack TV doctor from New Jersey
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: with 10 houses. Fetterman has been open about a lingering
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: issue where he still has some trouble hearing and sometimes
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: expressing his thoughts clearly. And those challenges were plainly evident
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: during the debate, which caused a lot of pundits and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Democrats to freak the fuck out. As for Oz, he
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: lied a lot, repeatedly refused to say whether he supports
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: a national abortion ban, and instead said he wants the
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: decision made by, quote, women, doctors and local political leaders. Dan,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: let's start with Fetterman. So there were a lot of
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: people on Twitter and in the media predicting with great
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: certainty how his debate performance would impact the race. Spoiler,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: no one really thought it would help. What did you think?
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take a deep breath because I have
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Deep breath.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of thoughts on this.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: A lot.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And I will try to self-edit here since we have
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: three interviews on this podcast.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Are you asking me whether A man who suffered a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: stroke five months ago did not do as well in
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a debate as a practiced television pundit with 30 years
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: of honing his craft on TV. Yeah, that happened. Could
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: it hurt him in this race? Maybe. Maybe not. I
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: don't know. But one of the problems with how this
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: was covered is it was all about optics. It did
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: not state the most important thing, the thing we have
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to say, the thing the press should have said. which
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: is people who have strokes have a recovery process. During
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that recovery process, they often have challenges with auditory processing,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: as John Fetterman would say, hearing things, saying things, getting
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: your words out. There is no suggestion that he's not
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: going to get better, and there's absolutely no suggestion that
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: he is in any way impaired other than the words
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: coming out of his mouth, that there's any sort of
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: mental impairment, that he can't do the job. But no
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: one said that. That was not how it was covered.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Instead of taking that piece of information that a lot
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: of voters don't know. Most voters don't know about the
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: stroke recovery process. They don't understand how it works. They
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: don't know about auditory processing. So the people whose job
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: it is to inform the voters when covering this debate
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: did not do that. Instead, they decided to predict what
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: the people who didn't have the information would think if
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: they never gave them the information. That is an abdication
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: of duty. It was disgusting. It was offensive. It was
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: absolutely a disservice. The coverage was terrible.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty bad. It was pretty bad. And
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: when you say the coverage, I think the pundit reaction
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: on Twitter was particularly terrible. Digging in just to prepare
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: for this pod, as you got into some of the
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: articles about it, you know, it was better. Slate interviewed
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: a bunch of doctors about this. The New York Times
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: interviewed a couple doctors about this as well. And of course,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: as you just said, all of the doctors said, yeah,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with his cognitive ability, with his ability
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: to think, his mind is as sharp as ever. It
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: is purely an issue of hearing and getting the words out,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: which is very typical. And all these doctors said it
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: looks like he's recovering well. A lot of them thought
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: he actually did pretty good in the debate, considering how
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: long ago the stroke was and how long the recovery
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: process usually lasts. And yeah, It was, he's going to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: have trouble hearing and speaking, but like there's no, his
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: mind is as sharp as ever, which is something that
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: we both noticed when we interviewed him on this podcast.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he sat down with Kara Swisher, the toughest interviewer
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: in journalism. Right around the time he talked to us.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: There is no– this idea, the impression that was left
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: in this coverage. And there is a distinction between the
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: people who wrote thoughtful articles about it. There are people
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: who cover the race every day and a bunch of
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: fucking Yahoo sitting in their apartment in D.C. who have
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: not been to Pennsylvania, have not talked to John Fetterman,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: have no capacity to know what the voters of Pennsylvania
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: may or may not think about this. And that is true.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: But they left the impression that there's a possibility that
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: John Fetterman cannot do the job. And that is fucking insane.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: It is not true. There is no evidence of that.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: There is a mountain of evidence that he can. It
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: is absurd. It is absolutely absurd. And then some of it,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: they defend it. Like, well, how's he going to do
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: floor debates in the Senate while he recovers? Floor debates
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: in the Senate? What the fuck are you talking about?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Is he going to lose a cloture motion at Tommy Tuberville?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: A fucking piece of astroturf representing a Republican Senate seat? Like,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: what the fuck?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: It is so.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Stupid. It is the worst elements of political journalism manifested
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: themselves in this all the way. Think about it this way.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Try to explain this to people in ways that they
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: would understand. Let's hypothetically say someone breaks their leg. And
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: then a few months after breaking their leg, they have
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to run in a foot race against a trained runner.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And then they don't do well. Are they in the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: process of recovering from their broken leg?
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Are they going to be faster next week?
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Are they going to be completely better a year from now?
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: There is no worse format in the entire world for
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: someone dealing with the issues that John Fetterman is dealing with,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: like so many people who have suffered from strokes, than
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: a televised, soundbite-driven debate. Like, of course he did not
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: do great here. Of course he didn't. It's impossible to
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: do great there. Right.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: The issue, I think, goes even beyond the media, though
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it is, as you correctly point out, their responsibility and
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: obligation to actually– report what happened and not to predict, right?
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Are you about to turn to the voters for a
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: second here?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I am about to turn to the voters.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, can I say one more thing? Just one more thing?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: You know what would have been fucking useful for the
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: people covering it? To focus on what John Fetterman said,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: not how he said it, because we know that he's
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: going to be able to say it more clearly next
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: year in the Senate. What about that?
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: It's not a fucking figure skating contest.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: But this is what I'm getting at. It is a
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: figure skating contest, and we have talked about that so
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: many times before. Like we talk about optics. Debates are
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the fucking optics Olympics. We have hated them forever. Even
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: before our boss almost lost the 2012 reelect because of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: how poorly he did in his first debate against Mitt
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Romney during that campaign. He has never liked debates. We
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: never liked them during the primary in 2007. They are
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: a fucking joke. They're the worst way to fucking pick candidates.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And yet we have them and they're a thing. And
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: so we all have to deal with them. And like,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: let's be honest, of course it was difficult to watch
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman in that debate. But then you have to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: ask yourself, why? Why was it difficult? Well, the most
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: honest reaction, the first reaction, the reaction I hope most
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: people have had, the reaction I certainly had, was because
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it is difficult to watch another human being struggle to
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: communicate effectively when you know that they've had a medical
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: incident that causes it, right? That's just like a natural,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: hopefully human reaction that most people have. But then the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: second reaction was, that I think a lot of people had,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of Fetterman supporters had, is, oh no. And
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it wasn't, oh no, do I still think he should
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: be senator? It was, oh no, do a majority of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvanians still think he should be senator? Because we are
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: all pundits now. This is the problem.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, we literally are pundits.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: We literally are pundits, but I'm saying everyone listening is
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: acting like a pundit as well, because the New York
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Times went out and interviewed a bunch of voters about this,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: and There wasn't one Fetterman supporter or someone who was
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: on the fence who said, oh, you know what? I
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: was a Fetterman supporter and then I saw the debate
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and now I changed my mind. But there were plenty
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of Fetterman supporters who said, it was tough to watch
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and I'm just worried what other people will think. I'm
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: worried that this will hurt them. And people start doing
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: all their punditry. And like, I get that. But as
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: you said, we are all guessing. We are just all guessing.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: We don't know the answer. What we do know is
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that John Fetterman's doctor released a letter saying he has
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: no restrictions on on what he can do. He is
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: completely fit to be senator. All these other independent medical
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: experts said this is completely normal. We know that. And
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: we know that Dr. Oz is a phony asshole whose
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: campaign has like relentlessly mocked John Fetterman for several months
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: for having a stroke, which is completely on brand for Dr.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Oz because he is a fucking guy who's gotten rich
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: off other people's suffering. This is a guy who, like...
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: A bunch of colleagues, medical doctors at Columbia University tried
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to get him fired in 2015 from Columbia University because
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: they said that he has disdain for science and evidence-based medicine.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Because all he does is go on TV and promote
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: fucking quack remedies that don't actually work so he can
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: get rich and other people don't actually get healthy. That's
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: who Dr. Oz is and that's why he fucking mocked
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman. for having a stroke for the last couple months.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So it's like, do you want the guy who's gotten
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: rich off other people suffering, or do you want the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: guy who has been suffering because he had a stroke,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: which millions of Americans have had, but is otherwise completely
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: healthy and mentally alert and ready to do this job
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and actually fight for the people of Pennsylvania? And so
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: when you're worried about what it's going to mean for
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman, fucking pick up a phone, talk to some voters,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: knock on some doors in Pennsylvania, and just tell that
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: to people. Tell the people the real difference between the
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: two candidates.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm so worked up about this. I'm so mad about it.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, I'm mad at the media like
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you are, but you know what? All of these stories
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: had Democrats in Pennsylvania. There were some Democratic strategists who
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: put their name on the quote. There were many of them,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: of course, who were just fucking cowards who gave anonymous
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: quotes who were like, This is bad. I can't believe this.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: If you're a fucking Democrat and you were talking to
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: a reporter, your Democratic strategist, and you're talking to a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: reporter about why you are freaked out about John Fetterman's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: debate performance, what is that going to do? Is that
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: going to make any fucking difference? Is that going to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: help Democrats at all? Or is that just going to
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: make you feel fucking important because you talked to a
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: fucking reporter? There's an NBC News story. Every single fucking
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Democrat in that story should feel ashamed of themselves, a
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: fucking ashamed of themselves. Chris Cofinas, all of them. That
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was fucking ridiculous. Ed Rendell's out there again, of course.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, Ed Rendell had thoughts on something?
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, great. Now your relationship with the reporters are great.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: You saw your name in print. Congratulations. Fucking assholes.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: We've said it before.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Give me a new party.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I will say it again.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Clean them out.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: One of her party's greatest... over the last many years
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: is our inability to develop an inner monologue.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: You know what?
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: You're nervous about it? I'm nervous about it. You know
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: what I do? I text you.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Republicans don't do this shit. Unbelievable.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: It's like, I just don't.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Call up your reporter friends. You're going to see them
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: at fucking Cafe Milano later, so you got to be
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: tight with them. You know, I got to give them
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: an anonymous quote because then they'll call me and then
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I'll feel more important. Good for you. Good for you.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: You're really moving the ball forward. Some Democrats said that
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Fetterman just should have refused to debate. Do you think
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: that was a viable option? I do not.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't pretend to know John Fetterman particularly well,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: but what I do know about him suggests there's not
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: a chance he was going to do that. That's just not,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be in his DNA. And his campaign
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: has run what I think to date has been the
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: best campaign of the cycle. They have been ahead of
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the curve. They have been smart. Yes, this race is
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: close now, but the fact that it is close in
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a tough Democratic year with a candidate who missed months
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: on the trail, because they suffered a stroke on the
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: day they won the nomination, is pretty impressive. And so
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: they have a reason they chose us. And it's easy
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: to be one of these fucking Twitter strategists that you
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: just talked about, even though you mentioned actual real Democratic
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: strategists who talk too much. Let's talk about the people
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: who pretend to have All the fucking answers who had
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: never thought that maybe they should take that omniscient knowledge
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: about politics and apply it to actually working in the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: fucking business and saving the party instead of just tweeting
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: about it. Like, what about those people? It's like, I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: know everything that's going to happen in sports gambling, but
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I won't place a bet anywhere. Obviously, this very good
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: campaign had looked at this question. I bet they even
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: asked voters about it. Maybe they used data and they
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: made a decision. There's no good option here. I think
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: they chose the best of two bad options and did
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the best they absolutely could. And the question isn't what happened.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: It's what's going to happen next. How do they, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: don't even want to say like bounce back from this.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: That's not the right term. How do they close this
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: campaign out on offense, not on defense? Because of the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: way this played out, at least in the 24, 36
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: hours afterwards is they were on the defensive. And so
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: where do we go from here?
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of, why did his strategist
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: let him do this? Like you're right. John Fetterman is
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a pretty strong willed guy. Did anyone think of the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: fact that maybe just John Fetterman wanted to do this
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and that he wanted to do this because his entire
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: brand is been like sort of like the no nonsense,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: authentic candidate? Like, what would it have looked like if
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: he said, no, I don't want to debate? Right. It is, again,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: counterfactuals are easy now, but. I can very easily imagine
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: a complete freak out over John Fetterman saying, I do
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: not want to debate Dr. Oz because I am not
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: fully recovered from my stroke and I'm not going to
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: be able to effectively communicate. Like, you can just see
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that freak out now. You can hear it. So it's like,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it's just impossible to do the counterfactual at this point.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure they thought that maybe his recovery would
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: be further along than it is at this point when
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: they agreed to the debate. Like, you just don't know.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: You don't know. So let's talk about Dr. Oz's most
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: memorable moment. Here is a clip of that abortion answer.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I want women, doctors, local political leaders, letting the democracy
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: that's always allowed our nation to thrive, to put the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: best ideas forward so states can decide for themselves.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: So Democrats trying to make that Oz moment matter more
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: than Fetterman's debate performance. You think that's possible? And how
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: do they do it?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Let's just for one second, just dwell on what he said.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Essentially, what he's saying is you're on the phone with
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: your doctor making a very personal medical decision and you
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: have to conference in the county assessor. Like, what are
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: we doing? Like that, like that is like in a world,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: let's say that there was no questions about John Fetterman's
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: debate performance. That would be the biggest gaffe committed by
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: a candidate in a debate in years.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Years.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: The abortion is a central issue in the campaign.
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: Don't, Dr.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Oz has spent months trying to fuzz up his position,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to bounce back from these extreme positions he took in
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the primary, to try to make himself not seem like
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the extremist he is. And then he says on a
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: debate stage that he thinks local political officials, not local
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: health officials, not local government officials, which are all offensive
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and terrible, local political officials should be involved in the decision. You,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: your doctor, the alderman.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Like, what?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: It's just, like, that's a huge deal. Can they make
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: that matter more than debate performance? I don't know, maybe not.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: But you have to think about it as if there
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: is X amount of conversation about the debate. And if
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: the campaign can make it be 50-50 or 60-40 debate
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: performance as compared to Dr. Oz's abortion statement, then that's good.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Fuzz it up, get it out there, be aggressive about it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Every little bit of conversation about what he said about
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: abortion is going to help both maybe convince some voters
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: who are still deciding what they're going to do or
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: feel cross-pressured in a number of ways between just angry
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: at Democrats generally, not John Fetterman specifically, and concerns about
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Republican extremism or concerns about Republican extremism compared to concerns
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: as ill-founded as they think they are about John Fetterman's performance.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: That could matter. And so you got to do it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And I think it was smart they put an ad
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: out the morning after the debate to try to push
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: this issue.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Also, if you look at Pennsylvania state media and local media,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: they did cover, I think, Oz's abortion moment more than
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: they did Fetterman's debate performance because, you know, local and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: state media, they don't have a pundit brain as much
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: as like national media does.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Well, are you saying they talk to voters in the state?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, but also like they, they like report sort
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of straight news stories where they just talk about what
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: happened and they don't start talking about, they don't like
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: make pundit predictions in the middle of their copy, you know,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: as much. So, so that, that happened. Look, I think,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: this is the thing with Dr. Oz's answer there. Like, yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: this is the guy who said abortion is murder, right?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily surprising. What he was trying to
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: do is basically say like, yeah, he knows how unpopular
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: national ban is, but he's totally fine with state bans
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and local, right? He's totally fine with state politicians and
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: local politicians banning abortion. He just knows that for some
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: reason a national ban is unpopular. So he wants to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: dance around that and not give us an answer. The
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: guy is fucking like, Dr. Oz is such a phony.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: He is such a fraud. This is why the New
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Jersey thing, I'm sure after this race, everyone will be like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: should they have focused so much on New Jersey or
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Wegmans or the fucking houses and stuff like that? Dr.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Oz is a phony sociopath. He will do and say anything.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to win, to make money, to do whatever. He's a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Trump supporter. This guy is a Trump supporter, maybe was
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: pro-choice at some point, now is pro-life, says abortion's murder,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: says he wants local politicians to be able to ban
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: abortion wherever they want. I mean, the guy's all fucking
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: over the place. And I do think that if you
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: need a message about Dr. Oz in closing, you sort
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of need to get at the core of who he is, right?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: It's not just about one issue. It's about just, like,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: who this guy is. Can you trust him? And clearly, for, like,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: everything he's done, from killing puppies to his abortion answer,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think you can. I don't think you can.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Trump's super PAC just spent $ 800, 000 on this ad about Fetterman.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden and John Fetterman aren't up to these challenges.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Biden is stumbling around, and Fetterman just isn't right.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Our economy is coming south.
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: Bagels!
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Are so much better than eagles.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Biden and Fetterman. The same, the voice and the music,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: always the same.
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: What do you think about.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That line of attack and how should, how do you
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: think Fetterman should respond.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Both to that ad and just in general in these
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: final two weeks? What's his, what's his closing message?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that noted sophist and famed orator Donald
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Trump is here to police people speaking.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: I know, I know.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I think Fetterman should welcome this ad. He should welcome
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump in this race. It cannot hurt to remind
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: people that Dr. Oz is a Trump toady. He is
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: only running for this seat because Donald Trump asked him to.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: He only won the primary because Donald Trump endorsed him.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Just highlight that fact. That is good. That is important.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I think I'm going to give you a preview.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Trump's doing a rally in La Trobe November 5th on
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the final weekend. Next weekend, Trump's doing a rally. I'm
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: assuming Dr. Oz shows up, but who knows? Maybe it's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: just Mastriano.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Dr. Oz has to show up. If he doesn't, Trump
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: will tweet about him.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Sorry, truth about him.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know when Donald Trump's getting back on Twitter.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe it'll be by Friday. I don't know.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Could be right now. Yeah, but that's how they're going
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: to close out the campaign. Images of Donald Trump and Dr.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Oz together.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So from the perspective of the Fetterman campaign, I think
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it is a couple of things. First, I would highlight
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Trump's role in this. I think in this ad, in
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: this rally, I think that's great. Second is do everything
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: you can to draw attention to the abortion comment. I think,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: as I said, that sort of dilutes some of the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: negative energy that has come out of this and sort
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of the political conversation about it. And then third, and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: this is a decision only he could make and his
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: campaign can make because they know how he's doing the best.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: But I think the only way around is through. And
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: that is, as we know from when we talked to him,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: we talked to Kara Swisher, the debate is a particularly
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: bad format. So you want people to hear from all
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: the time. He had to do a rally the next
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: day in front of several thousand people. He sounded much
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: better in the rally. They did the debate. Do interviews
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: if they're the right format. Do rallies. Put in your
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: final ads. I think John Fetterman to camera speaking so
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: that people can hear that. Just show them, give them content,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: something else. People want to support John Fetterman. They like
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: John Fetterman. You know this from the wilderness. They do
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: not like Dr.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Oz.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Give them a permission to support the guy they want
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: to support. by showing them where he truly is, showing
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: them something different than this debate, explaining it to them.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And so I think that's ultimately the final sort of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: steps here for this campaign in the last moments of
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: this race.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: In fact, the voters that I spoke to in that
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh focus group said, you know, sometimes he doesn't say
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: everything correctly. Sometimes he doesn't, you know, but I still just,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I just trust him. I just believe him. And I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: think that you've got to show people that, right? That's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: why people fell in love with him in the first place. Okay,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: so Tuesday's debate was just the cherry on top of
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: a shit Sunday of polls and blind quotes and stories
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that have Democrats in a state of panic, which is
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the party's second favorite state after self-loathing. So there was
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a New York Times report this week that Democrats have
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: mostly given up on contesting Trump districts and are instead
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: focused on holding districts that Biden won. some that he
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: won by double digits. Sean McElwee, our friend who runs
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the progressive polling firm Data for Progress, said, quote, we
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: thought for a little bit that we could defy gravity,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: but the reality is setting in. And not to put
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: too fine of a point on it, but in the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: final weeks of this midterm, Joe Biden will be campaigning
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: in the battleground state of New York. Dan, what is
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: going on here? What is going on?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe the bottom is falling out, Sean. Maybe it's not.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe the polls show Democrats losing.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're wrong. The question I would have for everyone is,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: what is any of this going to do to change
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: your plan for the next 10 days? Are you going
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: to make fewer phone calls because Democrats are losing? Are
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: you going to make more? Are you going to give
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: less money? It doesn't matter. We are at this stage
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: in campaigns. You know what happens? The campaign manager goes
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: to the communications office. The people who make the ads
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and they say, give me your staff. They're going to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: go knock fucking doors. All that's left, all that's left
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: here is turning out and persuading voters. That's all there is.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what some guy named Nate says. It
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the polling average says. It doesn't matter
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the needle. None of that. That's all there is to it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And there's just this thing that we try to remind
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: people all the time on this podcast is, There is
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: a pro-truth, pro-democracy, anti-MAGA majority in this country and in
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: all the states that are going to decide the Senate
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and the key governance races. These are states Joe Biden won.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: If that coalition that defeated Trump in 18 and 20
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: turns out on November 8th, we're going to win. And
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: if they don't, we're going to lose. And nothing that
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: happens on Twitter or cable is going to affect that.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: That calculus remains the same.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And I will just offer some context here. about the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: larger political environment, because I do think if you're out
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: there thinking, like, what does it matter at this point?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: The bottom's falling out. These polls are horrible. What difference
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: can I make? You should know that. Look, I mean,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of 2020, there's a lot of political scientists,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: political strategists who looked at the fundamentals in that race
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and said, like, this is going to be close. And
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: then a million things happened that seemed to tilt the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: race towards Joe Biden. Donald Trump had fucking COVID. Like,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: a lot happened in 2020. And then there were these, like,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: polls at the end of that race with these huge
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Biden leads, and everyone was all getting all excited, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it ended up being a really close race, just as
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the fundamentals suggested, right? So, like, this time, the fundamentals
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: suggest a pretty tough environment for Democrats for two reasons. One,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: because the president's party almost always loses seats in the
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: first midterm. Almost always. Usually a significant number of seats.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: And.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: On top of that, inflation is really high. That said,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the reason it might not be a full wipeout, the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: reason it's still close in a lot of these races
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: right now is because of a couple things. One, polarization. Like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's just, there's Democrats vote for Democrats, Republicans vote for Republicans.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Independents usually lean one way or the other and have
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: similar voting patterns. Gerrymandering in the House is actually limited.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: It's bad for a million reasons, but the upside is
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: it's actually limited a lot of competitive seats. So there's
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like a lot of Democrats in safer seats because of
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the way that the map was drawn. There's also a
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: lot of Republicans in safer seats. So just the terrain
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: is smaller in the House. So the losses could be
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: stemmed that way. And of course, potentially because of DOPS
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and Republican extremism. That is different. So like all of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: those factors together, yeah, the fundamentals are just a very
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: shitty political environment for Democrats no matter what happened in 2022.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But there are a bunch of things working in our
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: favor that make this race close, that make all of
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: these races different. And I've now heard this a couple
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: times over the last few weeks from our team and
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: from some other people. These aren't margin of error races.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: They're margin of effort races. I kind of like that.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know where it came from, but it just
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: started popping up in a couple places. Everyone said it's
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: margin of effort, meaning these races will be decided based
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: on what you all do. What we all do.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I think that's an important point on the polls. It's
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: just They are not supposed to predict what's going to happen.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: That's not what they do. They were never supposed to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: do that. They were even in an era when they
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: were not possibly fundamentally broken. They were imprecise. And that
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: up to and down to is the same thing in
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: most polls. And so we just don't know.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: There are also usually snapshots of what was going on
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: two weeks earlier, not what's happening now or what's going
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to happen in the future, right? So you're always looking
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror when you're looking at a poll.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: So the polls that are coming out today, maybe they
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: tell you with relative accuracy what happened last week or so,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: but it's hard to tell what's happening now or what's
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: happening later. I'll still look at them.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes what you see in the mirror is the T-Rex
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: from Jurassic Park, and sometimes not.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: We don't know.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: All right, so here's something you can do. We've talked
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a lot on this show about the Senate. Everyone has
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: donated generously to the Senate Fund. It helped all these
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Democratic Senate candidates. I want to talk about the House.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: The Congressional Leadership Fund, which is the Kevin McCarthy super PAC,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: just dumped another $ 11 million into house races with less
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: than two weeks to go. So a lot of house
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: races could use more money. Some of them could use
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: your time to help mobilize voters who might otherwise sit
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: this one out. Again, all voters are a persuasion target
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: at this point, whether they're thinking about voting for Republicans
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: or thinking about not voting at all. You have to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: persuade people, right? So you go to votesaveamerica.com, sign up
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: to help knock on doors or make calls or send texts.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: But also we have updated our house fund to reflect
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the races where your donation can have the most impact
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: right now. So we have a list of house races where, again,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: we talked to all the people in these races, talked
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: to other strategists, sort of like ran the numbers. And
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: these are the races where you'll have the most bang
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: for your buck, where your dollars can go the furthest
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and actually really help some of these candidates. So go
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to votesaveamerica.com, donate to the house fund and sign up
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: for some volunteer shifts. Okay. When we come back, Dan
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: interviews Senator Catherine Cortez Masto about her close race in Nevada.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And after that, you'll hear an interview that Tommy did
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: with Oregon gubernatorial candidate Tina Kotek.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Joining us now is a Nevada senator up for reelection
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: in just a few weeks and the first Latina senator ever. elected,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Catherine Cortez Mesto. Welcome back to Pod Save America.
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: Oh, Dan, it's great to talk with you. It's always
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: great to join you on the pod.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: It's great to see you. We are just, you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: less than two weeks out, incredibly close race, control the Senate.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: It lies in the balance. How are you feeling right now?
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: You know, there's so much energy here. I feel on
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: the ground the same energy that I felt back in
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: 2016 when I ran for U.S. Senate for the first time.
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: I just, you know, I'm third generation of Aden. I
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: get around the state quite often. I show up in
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: the rural communities and in our urban areas everywhere. And
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of energy on the ground. People are
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: paying attention, number of issues that they talk to me about,
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: including the kitchen table issues. And they're coming out. I
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: You know, I just I have to say everywhere I
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: go and, you know, I spend a lot of time
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: traveling between Vegas and Reno. And to do that, you
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: have to fly because it's what over it's about a
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: seven hour drive. And everywhere I go, airports, on the planes,
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: in the grocery stores, at events, people will come up
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: to me and talk about the election and show their support.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: And so that's good to see. And I just I
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: feel that energy. And we just now it's just making
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: sure people vote. we've got, it's a really focus on
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: is getting and turning out our voters. It's a ground
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: game now. And that's why we're knocking on doors and
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: we're phone banking and we're making sure we're getting into
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: the communities and talking to voters here in Nevada about
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the importance now of exercising their right to vote.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Some very important questions here for you. First, how many
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: members of your family have endorsed Adam Laxalt?
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't think any that I am aware of.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: How many members of Adam Laxalt's family have endorsed you?
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: Well, I will say there was about 14 of them
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: because I just called every single one of them to
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: thank them. And I was honored to have their support.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's just notable for the people listening that the
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: people who know Adam Laxalt best are supporting you.
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: Well, listen, and let me just say this because not
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: only am I honored to have their support, of course,
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: but so many across the state, not just Democrats. Republicans
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: have stood with me publicly, nonpartisans. I have the support
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: of so many from our firefighters to law enforcement to
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: our really organized labor here and so many people. So
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: it really has been an honor to get that support
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: and see the various diversity of folks coming out that
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: are willing to recognize the work that we've done together
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: here in the state of Nevada and their support for
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: me to continue it.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: One of the big questions that I think will determine
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: what happens in your state and for Democrats across the
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: country is younger voters. It helped deliver the House in 2018,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: the White House and the Senate in 2020. In your
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: conversation with, you know, as you're going door to door
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and talking to folks, what are you hearing from young
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: voters and how you feel about their engagement in this election?
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: Well, and you're right. Young voters are so important. And
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: I will tell you, not as just knocking on doors
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: and talking to them. They're part of my campaign. And
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: we have volunteers that are young voters or juniors and
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: seniors in high school, some of them getting ready to vote,
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: but they're engaged. And they're concerned about their future and
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: whether it's environmental justice issues or the cost of education or,
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: you know, in a state right now where the main
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: hospitality industry here is the travel and tourism. And I'm
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: sure their families, particularly in Southern Nevada, work in that industry,
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: making sure it's strong and robust and we're creating jobs
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: and they have a future. And we're leaning in to
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: address the climate crisis. We're on the drought that we
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: deal with here and the wildfire. So it is a
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: combination of things. I will say, though, it really is
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: exciting for me not to just be able to talk
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: to them and show up and have these conversations because
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: I go to our high schools, I go to our
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: college campuses, and I talk to people. But they're volunteering.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: They're coming out to knock on doors on my behalf.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: They're volunteering. And they're talking to their peers. And they're
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: talking to other voters. about what matters to them. And
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: rightfully so, right? They should be holding us accountable for
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: their future and protecting that future. And that's why, for me,
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: it is important to be engaging with them all the time.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: And nationally, the conversation around all of these elections hits
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: on a bunch of issues, inflation and associated economic issues, crime, abortion,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: the future of democracy. But one issue that I know
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: is very important in your state It's important nationally, but
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: maybe even more so in your state is housing. Can
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: you just, for folks, let them know the difference for
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: people who are concerned about the high cost of housing
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: between having you in the Senate and your opponent in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the Senate or Democrats in charge of the Senate or
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Republicans in charge of the Senate? Just what are the
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: fundamental differences on the housing issue?
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So first of all, most folks don't know I
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: was born and raised here. I'm third generation. And for me,
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: it is making sure all of our families have the
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: same opportunities and that I had growing up that my
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: family had with support of our community members. And that's why,
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: let me just say, during the last downturn in our economy,
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: you know, every time there's a downturn in the economy,
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: something happens because our revenue base is hospitality and travel.
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: We take a hit. So the last subprime mortgage crisis
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: that we had, I was the attorney general. And too
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: many of our families and individuals and advance were losing
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: their homes. And so that's when I took on the
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: big banks. I remember I took on the big banks
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: and said, no, we're, We're going to fight for our
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: families to keep a roof over their head. We're going
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: to make sure they're treated fairly. And that's when I
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: really went after the banks and brought in about almost
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: a billion dollars to just support our families. So do
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: I know how important housing is in the state? Absolutely.
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: Housing to so many families is also health care. And
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: it's a comfort level for their families and their kids
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: and their future. And so that's why when I got
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: into the Senate, I wanted to be on the Senate
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: Committee of Housing and Banking. Because of the work that
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: I had done, I'd known the fight for our families,
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: and I wanted to continue that on the Senate Banking
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: Committee and have been able to really focus in our state,
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: building coalitions throughout the state of Nevada about how we
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: address housing at all levels. And in Nevada, when we
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: talk about affordable housing, it's not just for homelessness. It's
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: not just for low income. It's a first-time homebuyer. It's
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: for that working family. that wants that opportunity to own
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: a home. It is for senior housing. There's so many
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: things affiliated with it. So my focus has been bringing
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: our coalitions together to focus on all those areas and
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: creating this infrastructure so that when I fight for those
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: federal dollars, that they come into the state of Nevada
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: and help our families. And because of my work, I
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: brought in about $ 500 million in this state to keep
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: families in their homes and help them with rental assistance
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: during the pandemic. And another $ 600 million that also helps
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: families and help us build that affordable housing in the state.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: So yes, it is an important issue for so many
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: families here because I know these families. My family all
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: grew up here and worked in the hospitality industry, and
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: they still do, many of them. And it is important
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: for so many families to have a roof over their head.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: So that will always be my fight to make sure
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: they do.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: There are reports of election workers in your state quitting
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: because of harassment, fears about what could happen on the election.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: What is your level of confidence in the integrity in
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: this election that the votes will be counted and rightfully
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: attributed here?
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: Well, let me just say a couple of things. One,
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: I know as a former attorney general that our elections
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: here are safe and secure and there is no wholesale fraud.
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: I mean, I can tell you as eight years as
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: the attorney general who was part of a strike force
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: with the secretary of state and FBI every election year,
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: that I, and we would look for that fraud, whether
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: it was registration or voter fraud, I can count on
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: two hands how much there was. And we went after
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: it and prosecuted. And let me just say this because
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: my opponent, Adam, general after me should know that as well, right?
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: Because he would be part of that election task force.
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: And you can ask him how much wholesale fraud was
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: there when you were attorney general that you were prosecuted.
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: Cause I don't remember seeing or hearing a wholesale fraud
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: during the time that he was attorney general. However, it's
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: very convenient after he steps down and he loses a
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: race for governor in this state. He chairs now, co-chairs
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump's reelection. And when Donald Trump loses, goes around
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: the state claiming that there was election fraud and that
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: it was stolen from Donald Trump. Here's why this is
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: so scary, I think, nationally, but why it's so important
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: for people to understand in Nevada. He was the face
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: of that big lie in the state of Nevada, my opponent.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: And he went around claiming that the election was stolen
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: and he knows better. And he should know better as
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: the former attorney general that there was not wholesale fraud
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: because five litigations, right? They challenged it in court. He
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: led that challenge. And every single court said, no, in
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: the state of Nevada, there was no wholesale fraud. Our
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: Republican secretary of state at the time said, no, there
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: was no wholesale fraud. This election was not stolen. And,
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: and at the end of the day, he is still
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: peddling these lies. He has gone so far to say
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: that if he loses this election, to me, it's because
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: it's stolen and he's going to investigate. But here's the
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: scary part of all of this, and this is why
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: this is so important for people to really connect the dots.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: When you're fueling that big lie, that fuels the mob
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: that we saw on January 6th. That the mob that
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: literally overran the Capitol to under the guise, under the
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: misinformation and this big lie that it was somehow stolen.
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: And we know it wasn't. And let me just say,
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: people lost their lives that day. Law enforcement was attacked
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: that day. I was there. To this day, my opponents,
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: who fueled that mob, has not condemned what happened there,
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: has not stood up for those law enforcement officers who
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: stood guard, and he's still peddling those big lies. It
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: is dangerous for our democracy. It is dangerous for our future.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: And right now, the strongest thing that I know to
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: do to stand up against it is run against people
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: like this who want to undermine that democracy and call
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: them out because people need to know absolutely who is
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: going to peddle some big lying conspiracy for their own
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: political gain and their own power. And we do not
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: need those people, not just running in Nevada, but across
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: this country.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Senator Masto, that is a great place to end. But
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: before I let you go, please tell our listeners who
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: want to make sure that you win and this big
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: lie pushing Trumpist does not win. How can they help
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: your campaign in these final days here?
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: Dan, thank you. So please, if you want to help
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: us out, and this is a place to do it,
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: these races are always close. You can come in and
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: help us. This is our ground game now. You can
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: reach out to CatherineCortezMasto.com. You can come in. We'll put
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: you on canvassing and knocking on doors, or we'll put
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: you in phone banking, whatever it is. But this is
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: our moment. This is our strength. We've got to talk
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: to our voters, make sure they know that it is
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: time to get out and vote. Early voting is happening
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: right now. And that will go on until November 4th.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: So this is our moment to talk to our voters.
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: So if you want to come out and help, CatherineCortezMasto.com
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: and we'll put you to work.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Senator, thank you so much for joining us. Good luck
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: out there. And we hope to celebrate your victory in
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: just a.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Couple of weeks.
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: I look forward to it, Dan. Thank you.
• 41:35
  Speaker 8: My guest today is the former Oregon State House Speaker
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: and candidate for governor, Tina Kotek.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Tina, welcome to the pod.
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: Thank you for having me.
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: Thank you for doing this. Let's just start with sort
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: of some general background on the race. Your campaign, your
• 41:50
  Speaker 8: race is different than most others this year because there
• 41:54
  Speaker 8: is this third party candidate in the mix that's making
• 41:57
  Speaker 8: things kind of complicated. Can you give listeners a bit
• 42:00
  Speaker 8: of a lay of the land about who's running, what's
• 42:03
  Speaker 8: at stake? And I'm also interested in where some huge
• 42:06
  Speaker 8: sums of money are is coming from to some of
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: your opponents.
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: Oh, I would be happy to give you the lay
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: of the land. Thanks for the question. So we are unique.
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: We have a term limited governor. This is the biggest
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: governor's race we've had in a long time. And there
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: are three well-funded women running against each other's couple smaller
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: party candidates. But the three of us are former legislators.
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: I was a former speaker. There's a Republican who came
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: out in the primary who is her name is Christine Drazen.
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: And then there is an unaffiliated candidate. And I say
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: that specifically because in Oregon, there's actually an independent party
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: of Oregon.
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: She's unaffiliated.
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: Senator Betsy Johnson, she was a Republican, became a Democrat,
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: was in the legislature for 20 years. And then at
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: the end of last year said, I'm out. Don't want
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: to be in the party. I'm going to run as
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: an unaffiliated candidate. And she comes from money, but is
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: also getting a lot of money from large special interests,
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: including the founder of Nike, Phil Knight, who I believe
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: ended up giving her about $ 3 million. And we have
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: no contribution limits here. So you have experienced folks with
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: money running against each other. And so it doesn't fit
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: the national narrative. This is really a very unique race
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: because of a three-way. Oregon can be very purple. Our
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: governor's races are always interesting because they're off cycle. But
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: this is an incredibly unique race. And if I weren't
• 43:30
  Speaker 6: in it, I'm sure I'd love to study it. But
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: right now, I'm just trying to win.
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: Yes, we want you to win. What's wrong with the
• 43:39
  Speaker 8: Nike guy? What crawled up his ass and died.
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: For $ 4 million?
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, he's actually into this election cycle in
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: Oregon for about $ 7 million. He invested in the unaffiliated candidate,
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: Bessie Johnson, early on. along with all kinds of other
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: special interests like extraction industries, timber, concrete. They're all in
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: for Betsy. She was on TV since March. And then
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: he just switched to give a million dollars to the
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: Republican because he knows Betsy can't win. She's now in
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: spoiler category because she just dropped in the polls. So
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: he's now investing in the Republican. But he's also put
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: a whole bunch of money to try to keep the legislatures,
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: both the House and Senate here and our state legislature,
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: from staying in Democratic control. He's trying to flip the
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: whole state red. I don't know what his problem is.
• 44:27
  Speaker 6: He has said publicly he doesn't like me. I've never
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: met him. I don't, you know, whatever. But all I
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: can say is I stand up for working people. I
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: stand up for fairness. I want a fair tax system.
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: So maybe he just doesn't like us.
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: Man, got a real MyPillowGuy vibe going on there.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 44:44
  Speaker 8: Stepping back to some broader issues. I mean, I'm not
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: in Oregon. You know way better than I do. Some
• 44:50
  Speaker 8: of the articles I've read said that voters are concerned
• 44:53
  Speaker 8: about crime, especially in Portland, where there's been an increase
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: in the homicide rate, an increase in drug overdoses. Democrats
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: across the country, regardless of circumstances, are getting attacked as
• 45:04
  Speaker 8: soft on crime. I was curious how you're pushing back
• 45:08
  Speaker 8: And if there are any lessons that all Democrats can
• 45:10
  Speaker 8: or should learn.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: From your experience?
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: Well, I think it's important for Democrats to talk about
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: public safety and keeping our community safe. I'm pushing back
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: by saying, look, my record's been very clear. In the
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: state legislature, I supported whatever came into my world in
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: terms of funding and policy. So, for example, making sure
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: our state police have been funded, making sure our crime
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: lab has been funded, you know, really core things that
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: the state runs. You know, policing is mostly a local issue.
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: I believe that we need more law enforcement, particularly in Portland.
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: We're very short staffed. I've also supported crisis response. But
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: getting back to the bigger issue, I've never seen the
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: wrong track, right track numbers so bad in Oregon, right?
• 45:51
  Speaker 6: People are angry. They have reason to be angry.
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: We just went through two years of hell.
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: Crime is up. Livability feels bad. We got people living
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: everywhere on the streets here in our major cities. That
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: has to change. And what I've said to people is,
• 46:04
  Speaker 6: I'm with you.
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: I'm mad.
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: That's why I got in this race. We can fix
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: these problems. We don't have to go down some right
• 46:09
  Speaker 6: wing track that these other two conservative candidates are offering you.
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: That is the wrong direction. You want to fix things?
• 46:16
  Speaker 6: Let's keep our values and fix things. And that, I think,
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: is the crux of the race right now.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: One interesting thing I noticed was that in 2021, Oregon
• 46:25
  Speaker 8: decriminalized possession of small amounts of a number of drugs,
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: including some hard drugs, heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine. Now you basically
• 46:33
  Speaker 8: get fined instead of going to jail. Oregon also increased
• 46:36
  Speaker 8: access to addiction treatment and other health services associated with
• 46:39
  Speaker 8: that change. Just to like put my personal cards on
• 46:42
  Speaker 8: the table here, I think American drug laws are crazy.
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: They have a racist history. I think that treating addiction
• 46:49
  Speaker 8: like a criminal issue doesn't solve addiction and only leads
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: to mass incarceration. So I like fully support any creative
• 46:57
  Speaker 8: efforts to change our drug laws. But the challenge is
• 47:00
  Speaker 8: obviously that, um, Treatment services take a long time to
• 47:05
  Speaker 8: show an impact. Meanwhile, citizens might get frustrated when they see,
• 47:08
  Speaker 8: I don't know, open drug use in cities, or maybe
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: they just.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Don't feel safe.
• 47:12
  Speaker 8: I was wondering how you message those kinds of policy
• 47:15
  Speaker 8: changes to voters and convince them that there is potentially
• 47:18
  Speaker 8: a long-term benefit, even if they're dealing with acute short-term challenges.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: Very good question.
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: Well, our recent polling is showing that Oregonians support what
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: they did at the.
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: Ballot in 2020.
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: There was a ballot measure that said, instead of cycling
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: people through jail, let's get them into treatment and also
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: take a good chunk of marijuana revenue because we have
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: legal recreational use here, put it towards addiction treatment programs.
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: And they still support that. What they're frustrated with, which
• 47:45
  Speaker 6: I'm frustrated is, the implementation has been very bumpy.
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: Some people are getting more help.
• 47:51
  Speaker 6: There are more providers, but it's not where it needs
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: to be. I mean, the state took nine months to
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: get the contracts out. Governor Brown- Very absent on this topic.
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: We should be moving with more urgency. We have an
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: epidemic on our hands in Oregon and other states as well, right? Meth, fentanyl,
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: it's really bad right now. and we need to make
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: sure people don't get into recovery. So my job as
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: governor is to follow the promise that voters wanted when
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: they passed this measure back in 20, make it work.
• 48:19
  Speaker 6: My opponents just want to throw in the towel and
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: say like, we should send it back to the voters
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: or I'm like, they don't even have the guts to
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: say they want to fix it.
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: They just want to send it back.
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: To the voters. That's going to take years. And right
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: now people need help. So let's make what we have work.
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: And it does need to be, I think the connection
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: between law enforcement can be stronger where that handoff to
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: a treatment hotline is much more clear and getting people
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: into the services they need. And that is where we
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: should spend our time and energy. That's why I'm that's
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: what I'm saying. Voters said fix it. We're trying to
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: fix it. That's why I want to, you know, go
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: that direction.
• 48:53
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, look, I feel like at this point,
• 48:55
  Speaker 8: everybody knows someone who's had addiction issues or gone through treatment.
• 48:58
  Speaker 8: I mean, I think like, we can find some empathy
• 49:01
  Speaker 8: here for other human beings.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker 8: The other broader debate you're seeing in politics is how
• 49:05
  Speaker 8: much should Democrats be talking about the economy and inflation
• 49:09
  Speaker 8: versus the extremism of the Republican Party and specifically Republican
• 49:14
  Speaker 8: efforts to restrict abortion access? Just wondering what arguments resonate
• 49:19
  Speaker 8: when you're on the trail? when you're talking to voters,
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: like what did they come up to you and talk
• 49:22
  Speaker 8: about and what do they want to hear?
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: Well, I've just been out on the road on my
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: working families tour because I'm the only candidate that has
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: stood up for our working families for 20 plus years.
• 49:32
  Speaker 6: I got into this work saying, how do we help
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: people put food on the table? How do we reduce
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: their healthcare costs and their childcare costs and their housing costs?
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: So they can have economic stability and self-sufficiency. And my
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: opponents have, the Republican voted against the middle-class tax cut.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: She doesn't like any of the housing work to keep
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: people housed. Senator Johnson comes from money. So you see
• 49:54
  Speaker 6: folks that just aren't really in tune with what average
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: Oregonians are dealing with right now. And so I've been
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: talking a lot about that with folks, had some great
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: conversations about childcare costs. So very like digging into like,
• 50:06
  Speaker 6: I'm going to be on your side. I've worked on
• 50:08
  Speaker 6: these issues. We have to make sure people have what
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: they need. And to the extremism argument, this really does
• 50:14
  Speaker 6: go to where Christine Drazen is. The Republicans like, I
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: have a, I have a new vision or I'm going
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: to bring a new Oregon or new direction. That is
• 50:21
  Speaker 6: just right to the right. You know, it's like, I
• 50:24
  Speaker 6: want to undo environmental regulations. I want to ban abortion.
• 50:29
  Speaker 6: She's hanging out with folks who went to the January
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: 6th insurrection. She is extreme and wrong for Oregon. She's
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: OK with the QAnon candidate running against U.S. Senator Ron Wyden.
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: She's like, well, you know, she's a Republican. Well, she's
• 50:40
  Speaker 6: showing her cards. This is not Trump country. But that's
• 50:44
  Speaker 6: where she's coming from. So on the one hand, it's like,
• 50:47
  Speaker 6: who's going to be with you? And do you really
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: want that?
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: Really? Do you really want that?
• 50:51
  Speaker 6: So, I mean, those are the actual conversations I'm having
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: with people every day now between now and election day.
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: So for listeners who maybe haven't been paying attention to
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: this race. They just heard you describe your opponent. That
• 51:04
  Speaker 8: sounds a little scary. They're not necessarily cool with a
• 51:08
  Speaker 8: sneaker billionaire buying your election or any other. How can
• 51:11
  Speaker 8: they help out?
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Where should they go?
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: Love the question. Well, check out my website, Tina4Oregon. com. You
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: can volunteer. If you're in Oregon, we have plenty of
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: things for you to do. If you live outside of Oregon,
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: you can still phone bank. If you can send a
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: little money our way, we are still making sure we
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: can communicate with voters to make sure they understand the
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: importance of this race. And there is a lot at stake.
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: I'm hanging out tonight with some students at Oregon State University.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: I was just at University of Oregon today. They get it.
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: This is about, will there be a planet 50 years
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: from now? Will they still be able to control their
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: own bodies and their access to healthcare. These are core,
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: core issues for our younger voters. And they have been
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: very excited about my race. So I need people to
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: do what they can. Volunteer, sign up, give what you can,
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: tell all your friends. If you have any friends in Oregon,
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: oh my gosh, tell them not to vote for Betsy Johnson.
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: A vote for Betsy Johnson, the unaffiliated candidate, is a
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: vote for the Republican right now.
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: Please don't do that.
• 52:12
  Speaker 8: It's a good note.
• 52:13
  Speaker 7: Don't do that.
• 52:14
  Speaker 8: It's too important. Let's not mess around with third party candidates.
• 52:17
  Speaker 8: We've made that mistake a few times before. Tina Kotek,
• 52:19
  Speaker 8: thank you so much for doing the show. Best of
• 52:21
  Speaker 8: luck out there.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: I really appreciate it.
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: See you on the trail.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: Take care.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Before we go, we have one more very special guest
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: for you all. In the last couple of weeks, we've
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: talked to Barack Obama, AOC, and today in his first
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: sit-down interview since starring... in Taylor Swift's anti-hero video, which
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: has racked up 35 million views in six days. Comedian, actor,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: friend of the pod, Mike Birbiglia, his new Broadway show,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: The Old Man in the Pool, opens up tomorrow, I think, right? Tomorrow.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: It's tomorrow. Breaking news. Breaking news.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Mike, welcome back to the pod.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh. This is.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: It's all full circle, you know, because we were together
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: in D.C. when I was touring this show, Old Man
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: in the Pool... We did the pod there. Uh, and
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: then now it's on Broadway the same week that this, yeah.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: This mega video came out and my met. Okay.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: So here's what I wrote down. My message for, for
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: the listeners is, uh, the checklist is vote, bring your
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: friends to vote, plan.
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: A trip to New York to see the old man
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: in the pool. That's perfect. All right.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: So we are, uh, big fans of Taylor Swift at
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: pod save America. Uh, Emily Favreau and Hannah Vitor are
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: super fans, to put it mildly. You are now our
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: closest connection to Taylor Swift. I have one of her
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: biggest fans here right now.
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: Hi, Mike.
• 54:00
  Speaker 7: I'm very starstruck to be around you, honestly. I just
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: really need to understand exactly how this all went down.
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: Okay, first of all, I saw the tweet of your son.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Wearing the sweater that my character Preston wears in the video.
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: It's a lot to unpack.
• 54:18
  Speaker 7: It's a lot to unpack. John has never loved that sweater,
• 54:20
  Speaker 7: and frankly, I understand. It was sort of a bit
• 54:23
  Speaker 7: I was doing with myself, but it was an uncanny resemblance.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: My only goal is for Charlie not to become a Preston.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: But anyway.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder if it's an Emily John Easter egg.
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 54:35
  Speaker 7: And I don't even know.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: That would be very funny.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's funny because everything in her universe is mega.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: I've never experienced anything like it.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: And so everything that I say about her or the
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: video or whatever is so amplified that I have to
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: be very.
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: precise about what I say.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: So I'll repeat what she said on Fallon the other night. Smart.
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: Honestly, good tactic.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: Like I'm repeat, literally, and this is, this goes into
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: John's field of politics, which is like, sometimes do you
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: have to take cues from the people who are the
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: megas in the space and then go, well, if they
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: said it, I can say.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Right. That's basically what you have to do. You have
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: talking points that have been approved by Taylor Swift.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: But yeah, and it's only approved just by literally watching
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: it and going, oh, okay, I guess.
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: So what you're saying is you're not like on a
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: text chain with her where you're like, hey, I'm going
• 55:30
  Speaker 7: on Jon Favreau's podcast. And she's like, oh, I know Emily.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: That didn't happen.
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: Okay, okay.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: That definitely didn't.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: But so basically we were, you know, we know each other.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: We met socially a few times through Jack Antonoff, who's
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: like longtime friend, like I've known for.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: A million years. He did.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: He did the music for my podcast, Working It Out.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: He did the music for my last show, The New One,
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: which you guys saw. We saw that. Yeah, there's a
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Bleacher song in that at the end. And then our
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: minutiae old man in the pool has a Redhurst song,
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: which if you haven't heard his side project with Soundwave
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: and Sam Du, who also.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: Work on a lot of Taylor's stuff actually.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Redhurst album is astonishingly good. So Jack's an old friend
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: and he introduced me you know, through Jimmy and Margaret and,
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: you know, and we, yeah, we just hit it off.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: And then apparently I learned on Jimmy Fallon's show, that's
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: when she cast me.
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: For her video. I had no idea. That's so cool.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: So what was it like working with her? What is
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: she like? Give us, I mean, I don't know how
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: much you can say, but.
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: She is, no, no.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, she is, obviously in her music, she's
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: a visionary.
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: She's executing something.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: Entirely singular I feel like my experience with her as
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: a director is the same it's like she literally like
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: asked me over text like I got you know hey
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: it's Taylor and I don't even know if it is
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: like I don't have her number it's just like a
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: not whatever number I don't know someone's number hey it's
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: Taylor I'm like okay like I might be getting catfished
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: by Taylor so that's Or, you know, by who, you know,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: because she's texting like the script. I have this, I
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: wrote the script and I think that you could be
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: good in the thing. And so I'm like, it's either
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Taylor Swift texting me or I'm being catfished by an
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: excellent writer. Yeah.
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: And so either way, I'm going to take a swing
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: for it. And so I just go, I'm in.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: And then it was all just, I mean, what's funny
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: is like, yeah, everything's just in that universe.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: Everything's locked down. You know, it's just like. totally a
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: secret and like all this stuff. And, and, uh, it's fun.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: It's funny.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Cause I, yeah, at certain points, like I, as like
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: a gift when I shot it, like they, I, they
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: gave me some like sweatshirts and stuff. Like I had
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: like these like red, like the red tour, like sweatpants.
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: And I was wearing them. I have all the red
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: tour merch.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So like, I was like wearing them at like
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: an exercise.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: Class or whatever. And the instructor was like, so did
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: you go to the tour? And I was like, no.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: And she's like, why do you have the sweatpants? And
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: then I was like, Well, I don't know. I don't
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: know where these came from.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: You know, like literally like it was like keeping secrets
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: is not my forte.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I'll say that.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Emily, if Emily got a text from Taylor Swift, you might,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: you would pass out.
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: I honestly, I can't even have this conversation on the
• 58:34
  Speaker 7: pod because like I'm trying to play it cool in
• 58:37
  Speaker 7: case I ever do meet her. I don't want to
• 58:38
  Speaker 7: be like a super fan.
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: It is. That is very, very cool.
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: But the Mike.
• 58:44
  Speaker 7: Birbiglia, Taylor Swift universe for me and John is really
• 58:47
  Speaker 7: full circle.
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: You should tell that story.
• 58:49
  Speaker 7: I need to go watch Our Child, but I'm so
• 58:53
  Speaker 7: honored to be in your presence.
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: Can't wait to have a drink.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Not recorded.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: I can't wait for you to come to New York
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: and see the show, Emily.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: We have to.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: We have to.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: No, speaking of Our Child, it's funny because, and I've
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: told you this before, we watched the new one for
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: the first time the night that we found out Emily
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: was pregnant. which was a surprise, and I was terrified,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and then I watched your show, and it was hilarious,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: but terrified me even more.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the new one definitely does both things. It's on
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Netflix if people haven't seen it, but it's all about
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: how I never wanted to have a child, and then
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: how I had a child, and then I was right,
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: and then I was wrong. And so it shows all
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: sides of wanting to have a child versus not wanting
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: to have a child. And holy cow, but John, I
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: got to say, you got a lot of fun in
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: store with when... Una's age seven right now, it's the
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: greatest thing on earth.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, Charlie's age two and a couple months right now,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: and it's amazing. So, like, I'm now, the first six
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: months were rough. Now I'm totally in. But that, so
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: the night that Emily, we found out she was pregnant,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: we watched you, and then the night that Emily was
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: in labor with Charlie is when Folklore came out. It
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: was just announced as a surprise. And so Emily got
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: to listen to it when Charlie was born. So, like,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: really now, you and Taylor Swift are like the bookends.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: So sort of Charlie's, the pregnancy that gave us Charlie.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: Age seven is unbelievable.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: It's like the other day she goes, Dad, you.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: Have yellow teeth. And I go, well, I'm working on it.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: And then she picks up her cat puppet.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Meow, meow.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: Meow, meow goes, those are the yellowest teeth I've ever seen.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: And now I'm trying not to laugh because it's like
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: I love that Una's funny, but I don't want her
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: to be an insult comic and a ventriloquist.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: I love that. Well, everyone should go see The Old
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Man in the Pool because you are hilarious. You did
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: our DC PSA show live, and it was, I think,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: one of the all-time funniest segments on Pod Save America ever.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 7: Oh, my gosh.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks. Ever. It was so funny.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: The wrestling story I told in the episode, a longer version,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: is in the show, actually.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's perfect.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Well, everyone go see that show, and then put us
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: all on a text chain with Taylor, and we'll figure
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: it out from there.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: Wait a minute. What?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: Thanks, John. Thanks, Emily. This is so fun.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Mike. Take care. All right. That's our show for today.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Catherine Cortez Masto, Tina Kotek, and Mike Birbiglia
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: for joining.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: Bye, everyone.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: slash podsaveamerica.