Latest / The Layback Podcast / Carter Hohn, Owner/Founder of Full Send Performance (Ep. 46)

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Carter Hohn, Owner/Founder of Full Send Performance (Ep. 46) · The Layback Podcast

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Lay Back podcast.
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Joining us today is the Chaplain at the Chapel of Cheddar, Carter
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Hahn. Carter Hahn is the owner,
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operator, founder of Full Send Performance, but the cute little
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title we gave him of Chaplain of the Chapel of Cheddar fits his
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facility perfectly. His facility is located about an
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hour away from Pittsburgh and is housed inside an old church.
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So if you want to throw hard and pray to the baseball gods, I
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guess that's the place to be. Carters had quite the
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background. He really specializes in return
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to throw and performance training, so we're really
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excited to get in those topics today.
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But I'm going to kick it over to Carter so he can take us through
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a bit more of his background. Thanks again for joining us.
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Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.
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A little bit about myself, I'm not 30 yet, but I'm getting
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there. Just finishing up my my master's
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degree in Strength and conditioning from Logan
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University. I decided to take that for a
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little bit of fun after doing some certification courses and
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whatnot. But as far as like my own
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playing career, I'll be the first to admit it, I sucked.
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But I basically used my body as like a human experiment per SE.
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So I went to a junior college for two years, took a gap year,
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trained up in driveline in Seattle for a while, did one
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year at an NAI, and then finished up my senior year at a
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separate NAIA. Throughout that time frame.
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Freshman year of college, tore my labrum in my shoulder, had to
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deal with all that fun stuff. Kind of drove me down the rabbit
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hole of throwing rehab as that one is definitely not one many
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can say that they've come out the other side of on the right
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side of things. And then junior college, I
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actually had an older nerve transposition.
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So that's where I started to dabble in figuring out what's
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going on in the elbow a little bit.
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And as my playing career finish just kind of transitioned into
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coaching pretty quickly, I found out that I was a lot better at
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that than I wasn't playing. And when there's only one team
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interested in you when COVID starts, the odds for you aren't
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very good. So just kind of started to make
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that transition and then started full sun performance about my
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gosh, we're almost exactly at two years now.
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Opened up the Chapel of Cheddar here in Pennsylvania about a
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year and a half ago. And yeah, now we're here.
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It's it's been a blast getting to this point.
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I think maybe the first point to even dive in on is the little
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thing you said about you had this amazing discovery that you
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were way better at helping people get better at baseball
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than getting better at baseball yourself.
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Yeah, my my career was really interesting going into college.
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I did not throw hard. I was in 7882 guy.
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I got up to 84. Let's be real, if I was
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graduating high school right now, I probably wouldn't get to
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play any college baseball because of how much things have
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changed. And it's only been 10 years.
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But, you know, using that time frame as experimenting with
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myself and we were figuring out the weighted balls, we were
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figuring out velocity development.
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Obviously now we know that we can train velocity incredibly
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efficiently, but I had like no emphasis on the ability to
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command the baseball whatsoever. So I sucked at commanding the
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baseball. Just to put it simply, I could I
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could spin it really well when I decided to throw strikes.
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It was a really fun outcome. But other than that, the the
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outcomes typically weren't all that great.
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Then my junior year of college actually took over a 16 year
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travel ball team and really started to see what the magic of
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my knowledge was at that point in time.
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Because then it, it was no longer about just the
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performance side of things. We actually had to win baseball
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games and stuff like that. And I think when I took over the
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team, we had initial velocity testing day.
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I had guys pulling down like 65. And I think rolling into that
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summer I probably put them through the most rigorous
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practice schedule they'd ever been through.
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We were like 3 * a week for almost six months leading up to
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their high school season. I mean, they basically didn't
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get an offseason. Obviously throwing changed quite
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a bit during that time. But I think by the time the
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season started, we had I think we had like 5 or 6 guys on the
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mound that are sitting like 8083.
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We had one kid getting up to like 86 as a 16 year old.
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And at that point in time like we thought we were pretty good
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and at that and just very quickly.
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Realized like hey. I I enjoy this just as much as I
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enjoy playing, but I'm way better at it.
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Like we're having success like our our first tournament, we
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went down to a tournament at Fort Scott Community College in
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Kansas. At that point in time the
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showcase was a pretty big deal and I remember we played a a
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perfect game, top 25 ranks team and.
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I was like wow. We just won.
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I didn't think we were going to make it past the third inning.
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Like this is really cool. And then I just kind of stemmed
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in from from there on, I just really put more emphasis into
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coaching then then I ever did my own playing career, which you
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know, I don't. I don't really have any regrets
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about that. You could you could find the the
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old Casey Weathers video if you know, you don't know what you're
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capable of until you empty the gas tank and whatnot.
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I didn't even want to empty the gas tank.
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Like I I found that I was better at the coaching side of things.
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As you've probably noticed through our our conversations.
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I'm a weird dude. I'm not great at talking to
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people, but for some reason you get me around high school and
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college kids trying to get better at baseball and like I'm
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just in my element. It is a lot of fun to me and
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I've I've truly enjoyed getting to watch all of the different
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types of success that I've I've been able to help guys with,
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whether that be getting a college scholarship, getting
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promoted from AA to triple AI. Haven't had any guys make a
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debut that have come up with me throughout the entire time yet.
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Hopefully we see one this year. I hope so.
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But yeah, it's just kind of I've really, really enjoyed that.
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I mean, there's even been points in times where I've enjoyed
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doing the classes with little 12 year olds, right?
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Like you get a different enjoyment out of each level of
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guy that you're trying to work with.
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I've just really fallen in love with that.
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And then at that point, I don't even really watch baseball
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anymore. I just love coaching it.
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I'm sure as as you've noticed, you work your entire life around
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baseball. Sometimes when you go home, the
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last thing you want to turn on is more baseball.
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So lately I've transitioned to watching quite a bit more golf.
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It's a bit more relaxing watching the green rolling hills
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and not envying them. Just it's simple to be a couch
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armchair golfer. I feel really good about being
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an armchair golfer because yeah, of course I never would have
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made that shot. I would have.
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I would have trained it. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
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I'm I'm right there with you. Yes.
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But one of the things that I do find innovative that you might
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not even think of it as such based on your training
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background as a player when you took over the 16 you team your
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junior year of college. So I don't know the exact
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timeline. What is that, 2018?
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Yeah, probably late 2018 going into 2019.
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OK, so even having a group of 16 year olds do a velocity day
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testing, that's still kind of new in that time frame.
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So you you expose these kids to a type of training that they
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probably hadn't done before. I remember my senior year of
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college, grad year of college, so 2016 and 2017, and we had to
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beg to get the radar gun out. We had one as a staff and
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knowing what you threw, you had to like kind of backdoor your
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way into finding out how hard you were throwing by asking who
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was working the radar gun that day.
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But you had to be on their good side to find out because if the
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coach found out that you were sharing how hard people were
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throwing, you'd get in trouble. Yet all that weird stuff.
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So then actually putting that information in front of 16 year
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olds, it's crazy how much training can change when they
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know where they're at and they know where they want to be and
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you just start measuring it. I'm sure a lot of the gains that
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you guys had early on, especially with that younger
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adult group in a sense where they're so malleable, they can
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make adjustments pretty quickly, they can get better pretty fast
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is just as simple as guys, this is where you are, this isn't
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good enough, this is where we need to be.
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Oh, 100% that's that is that probably had more to do with it
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than the training protocols. I think any good coach has time
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goes on, you try and get better year by year.
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And every year you look back at what you were doing the year
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before and you were like, man, I was an absolute idiot.
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And that's exactly how I felt about the entire situation.
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But I had to remind myself eventually, like at the end,
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like all the guys that wanted to play college baseball ended up
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getting college scholarships. We had multiple dudes on that
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team end up throwing 90 plus. So yeah, it was, it was one of
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those things like I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew if
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I measured things and we talked about the results, then they
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were going to push themselves regardless.
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If this is in the middle of nowhere, Kansas, I mean, the the
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town that this travel ball Academy was in was like 1000
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people on a good day. So straight up middle of
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nowhere. So we would do like all kinds of
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fun bets and stuff like that. When it came to like velocity
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testing, I had a core group of guys, about eight of them that
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would come in and do like an actual velocity of element class
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on top of playing for the team. And there would be days where it
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was like, all right, well, the bed of the day is this kid
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versus this kid who can PR by the most on their pull down.
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And at that point in time, most of them just did 5 oz.
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I didn't let any of them do 6:00 and 4:00 and 3:00 and all that
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kind of stuff. They just weren't ready for
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that. But I mean, we had bets of, hey,
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you got to take a paintball to the bareback from 10 feet.
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I mean, we had all kinds of, like, the craziest things.
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And I'm just sitting there, like pumping these kids up.
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I'm like, yeah, you don't want to get hit with that paintball.
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Like, let's get after it. And it's wild how much it works,
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especially like with kids that age, like they don't care about
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what they're actually doing. Like they're just trying to win.
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They're trying not to get hit by a paintball.
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They're out there having fun. And I think that was a huge
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testament to like what what we tried to do with that team that
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year. We tried to push guys and we
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tried to do the little things right.
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I think we made 11 errors in like 39 games that that year
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with 16 year olds. So I was thoroughly impressed.
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It made me stop getting questions from the parents on
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why we took three hours worth of mass fungos per week.
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But like just just fun stuff like that.
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And it, it was really fun to see the transition working with
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those kids and trying to take all of the knowledge that I've
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learned about performance training and just trying to
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integrate it into like, hey, this is how we can use it for
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working in, in game scenarios. I mean, before, before they did
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hitting every practice, like we had like 15 to 20 minutes of Med
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ball work and they were just getting better at rotation.
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Next thing you know, we had guys on that team.
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I don't think, I think only one kid on that team had ever hit a
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home run. And by the end of that year we
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had like 9 that hit home runs. Just random stuff with
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performance training. But they were so malleable, like
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you said, like, it really did make things a lot of fun.
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So even sticking on this team for now, what was your appetite
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at that time for throwing on ramps or acute to chronic
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workload? I I don't know if you knew those
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phrases at the time, but maybe you were just intuitively
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working those systems into the process.
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Because you talk about pulling down and doing this velocity
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training. I'm sure there's some kids out
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there that think, then all I need to do is just go RIP
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baseballs as hard as I can five days a week, and I'll throw
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harder. Yeah, you'll probably throw
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harder, but you're also likely setting yourself up for failure
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in some capacity. So what did that look like even
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back then? First and foremost, don't just
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go RIP pull downs. Please do it.
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Do as I say, not as I do. But yeah, it was.
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It was interesting. At that point in time I had
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taken myself through two of my own rehab processes, so I
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understood the ramp up process pretty well, or I thought I did.
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At that point in time, I had only done one other return to
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throw and it was for my college roommate who had gone through
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TJ. He came back from his doctor's
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appointment after TJ and handed me the the lovely sheet of paper
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that we've seen 1000 times and with his return to throw
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program. And I just laughed and I was
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like, yeah, we're not doing this like this.
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I can't allow this to happen for someone that's living in the
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same house as me. But yeah, I think big thing at
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that point in time was I had guys getting introduced to
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throwing plyos. So we did probably about an 8
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week ramp up before they actually had their first Max
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intensity day. Obviously I wasn't tracking
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workload or anything like that. We didn't have sensors, but the
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one thing that I was tracking was number of throws, the weight
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of the throws that they were doing and just slowly trying to
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increase it. I think over the course of that
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eight weeks we started with about 60 throws and I tried to
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increase by about 15 throws per session per week, right.
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So maybe week one we had three sessions of 60 to 80 throws.
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Week two it was 80 to 100 throws.
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Week three it was 100 to 120, so on and so forth.
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And just kind of kept building it in that direction.
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You know, that was also really the time in which I was starting
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to understand because that was also the first year that I put
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on a modus sensor at that point in time, now called Pulse,
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obviously. But I think I went through, I
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went through a start that year where I threw like 95 pitches or
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so. And then I look back at my pulse
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data and I was like, yeah. I, I made 347 throws today.
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What are we talking about? And we're trying to tell kids
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like, yeah, your 20 minute throwing session is totally
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going to get you ready for that first start.
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And I'm just sitting here like, no, no, no, we need to throw for
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like an hour like, and that might get us prepared for our
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first start. So really trying to ramp up like
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number of throws because most people have will completely
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underestimate the number of throws that they're making it in
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a given day. And I found that it's even worse
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with pitchers. Like we're thinking about
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numbers of pitches. And number one thing that I've
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seen lately within the last like 2 years when guys like ramping
15:11
up into a season is they might get to it and they're like,
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well, I've done, I've done three sets of 15.
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So I'm ready for three innings and I'm just sitting there
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laughing. I'm like, you might be ready for
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one. Like you forgot to include the
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fact that you have to throw a pregame bullpen.
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You forgot to include the fact that you have another 88 pitches
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of warmups. All the sudden we're at the same
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pitch count with a pregame bullpen and one inning.
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So obviously you're not as prepared as as you really want
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to. So I've kind of transitioned
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into this goal of like pre season.
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I want to build guys up to the point to where we're doing 5
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sets of 15 pitches and I'm like, yeah, you can walk out there.
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You're good for three innings. We've done.
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We've tried to expose ourselves to twice as many throws.
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I know that the stress level is going to be lower.
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So once we increase that stress, we're going to pull back the
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number of throws and we should be at least somewhere close, a
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lot more prepared than what you would have been if you said, and
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I've done three sets of 15. I can go out there and throw 3
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innings now. Like you're going to be
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absolutely fried after that. I think that was one of the big
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things that I kind of learned through that transition is.
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You have to. Think about over preparing guys
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and if you over prepare them, they might be prepared.
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So that was kind of like the the big learning moment for me going
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through that. You bring up kind of an aha
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moment when it came to you looking at your modus sleeve and
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understanding how many throws are actually occurring on a game
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day. What other maybe discovery type
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moments did you have that started shaping the way that you
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were thinking as you transition to more program building, not
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just experimentation? We can manipulate the everliving
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crap out of a throwing workload. That was the biggest thing that
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I've kind of really come to terms with.
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I think back on it, I went through, there's two main like
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research articles that came out from Driveline that kind of
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shaped this. Number one was being flat ground
17:10
versus mound throwing and comparative stresses, which was
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fun because I was actually a part of that at the time and had
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no idea. I think I'm, I'm still the like
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banner picture for that, which is really cool.
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But I've had guys transition to the mound a lot earlier and more
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often because we found out it's actually less stressful than
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throwing on flat ground. Not by a lot, but like there,
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there is a small amount of stress decrease by throwing on
17:33
the mound. You just have better leverage.
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So I think that is one thing that really transpired through
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that process is having guys on the mound more often and being
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OK with it. We don't have to throw flat
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ground short boxes. We can just throw real short
17:45
boxes, stuff like that, but then we can also manipulate the crap
17:50
out of a throwing workload given the weight of the ball that we
17:53
are throwing. I think there was that article
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that driveline came out with comparing the stresses of all of
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the different Plio weights and whatnot.
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And I have found if I do a rocker drill with a red ball one
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day it might correlate to a point to workload on a pulse or
18:10
I can do. 8. Split stance throws with a blue
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plyo ball for a .2 workload. So how do I want to manipulate
18:18
this? Like if I'm I may have my
18:20
workload goal, but how can I get in the most amount of throws and
18:24
really really try and hone in that craft?
18:26
So I I spend a lot more time working on arm action specific
18:29
drills, heavier balls than most people would.
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I know that's becoming increasingly uncommon, but I
18:35
also know that it's the easiest way to manipulate the workload
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and get in more throws. So there's a drawback to it, you
18:41
know, early on in a return to throw, we're, we're definitely
18:43
going to take that route because I want guys to become more
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comfortable, get the arm to relax and so on and so forth and
18:50
just get reps in, right? Versus later on, like I might
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not care about getting those extra throws in within that
18:57
workload because our workload limit might be high enough to
19:00
where it doesn't, it doesn't really matter, right?
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Like those extra 30-40 throws throughout the day aren't going
19:05
to matter as much. But if we can push intensity a
19:08
little bit sooner that day, then we kind of take that trade off.
19:12
That's a really good point. It's insightful.
19:15
I haven't thought a ton about that and it's I'm glad you
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brought it up regarding not all throws are created equal.
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So I like the way that you broke down how we can manipulate
19:28
workload and the way we can manipulate it.
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If we stick to this kind of pulse modus structure or the
19:35
acute to chronic workload theory, there are weights to a
19:39
give and throw at a given intensity or given velocity at
19:42
your size. And it adds up to what we're
19:46
chasing down as a total acute workload for the day and then
19:49
stacking that to build our chronic workload, right.
19:53
So what you said or what you were leading on to is early on
19:58
when we're working with an individual, we can treat our
20:02
goal for the day as that acute workload value, not as much the
20:07
throw count and with that kind of added variability in the mix.
20:12
We can spend more time on constraint based drills or
20:16
different throwing techniques that can help the athlete
20:21
advance in their process from a skill based perspective, not
20:28
just from etching away at a throw count that would magically
20:33
get them better. Yeah, right.
20:35
Like kind of like going down that thought process I figured
20:37
out I've probably done here. Here's a good example.
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Here's an OG modus sleeve. It still says modus on it.
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I have probably thrown 100 + 100 + 1000 throws with a with a pull
20:52
slash modus sensor on, right. So I've, I've learned a lot
20:56
about like what kind of goes into it, my own self
21:00
experimentation. But like we have the weight of
21:02
the ball, which is going to directly impact arm speed.
21:08
OK, We know higher arm speed, lower arm speed is going to
21:11
regulate stress and workload. And then we can also talk about
21:15
like whether it's a Plio ball or a weighted baseball, those
21:19
things are going to change as well.
21:20
The weighted baseballs are typically going to have a little
21:22
bit more stress from my experience than the Plio ball
21:25
will. And then we're also going to
21:27
talk about like, what drill are we using, right?
21:30
Like are we doing a normal split stance throw, We're just going
21:34
through a regular arm motion? Or are we doing it with a little
21:38
bit more momentum where we're going through a Figure 8 and
21:41
trying to get a little bit more flowy?
21:43
Well, that's probably going to relate to a little bit more arm
21:46
speed. So even even just small
21:49
adjustments to drills will change how much the workload is
21:53
actually happening per throw. So really just trying to find
21:57
what works for each case. I know it's been really popular
22:00
to say like, hey, no, no return to throw should look the same
22:04
and whatnot. But I think I have a process
22:07
that I like per SE, but every single one of them still ends up
22:12
looking different. And I think that's the part that
22:14
actually matters is, you know, we have to be able to change as
22:18
things are happening and figure out the right route for that
22:22
specific athlete, right? Like I have one guy right now
22:25
who I'm working with who hates plyo balls with bashing.
22:29
OK, well that's going to change things.
22:32
How do we manipulate this now? So then having him do leather
22:37
weighted baseball drills to create lower arm speeds rather
22:40
than plyos. OK, well, this is already
22:43
immediately more stressful. So our row counts at the very
22:47
beginning ended up looking a lot lower than what I was expecting
22:50
because most of the time when I'm starting guys off, I start
22:53
them off with plyo balls, which there's there's a lot of
22:56
arguments on that right now as well of whether or not we should
22:59
be throwing plyo balls first, whether we should be throwing
23:01
under load first, a traditional baseball overload first.
23:05
Obviously, based off what I've said so far, you can probably
23:08
interpret that I go with overload first.
23:10
But then I think another major aspect that that a lot of people
23:15
don't take into account or don't think of or understand is the
23:18
fact that for guys who've torn their UCL, I haven't met anyone
23:24
who's torn their UCL throwing a pliable, but almost all of them
23:29
have happened in a game throwing a baseball.
23:33
OK, well, the brain knows that the baseball is what hurt them
23:36
The second you touch those seams, and we can go down this
23:41
rabbit hole a little bit later, we're talking about the nervous
23:43
system. You're going into protective
23:45
tension. The second you touch those
23:47
seams, your body's going to go into protective tension until
23:50
you've taught it that that's no longer going to trigger you,
23:53
it's no longer going to hurt you.
23:55
So why would I put a baseball in someone's hands if their brain
23:58
knows that it's what hurt them? And they're not going to be able
24:00
to relax into lay back. They're not going to be able to
24:02
have a flowy. Arm swing and they're probably
24:05
going to get a little bit pushy with it, which we know is more
24:07
stressful to begin with. It just seems like a really bad
24:10
idea to me to put a baseball in someone's hands for their first
24:14
throw after TJ because their brain is going to have so many
24:17
issues with it, whether they understand it or know it or not.
24:22
It's just not going to be the same.
24:24
So I've kind of transitioned to like getting guys started off
24:26
with, we're going to start with a red plyo ball and we're just
24:30
going to do 20 throws on day one and see how your body reacts and
24:34
see if you can fall into lay back or not.
24:36
And then we're just going to build from there.
24:38
I at the very beginning I might write out one or two weeks of
24:44
throwing return to throw at a time until we get to like.
24:47
That 6810 week mark where someone's progressing and then I
24:52
can start to do it a month by month time as we're starting to
24:56
transition into it, no longer looking like a return to throw
24:59
program, but looking more like performance training.
25:02
I both hate and love that you tease that nervous system piece
25:05
already because I really like want to chomp at that and get
25:08
into it. But I had other questions in the
25:11
process before we get there. One of which being, do you have
25:15
any idea why the weighted leather baseball is a more
25:20
stressful throw than the plyo ball?
25:22
I'll take a hypothesis if you have one.
25:24
I'll take fact if you have it. I just find that incredibly
25:28
interesting. I don't have fact, I just have
25:31
personal experience. And I think the biggest aspect
25:33
of it is you're not throwing it to a wall.
25:37
You're going to relax a little bit more and you're going to
25:40
throw it harder. I think that just is, I think
25:44
that's kind of like my little bit of hypothesis to it.
25:46
But then the the other thing, like if I'm trying to think
25:49
about the psychology aspect of it is when you hold a Plio ball,
25:53
it doesn't feel threatening like it is soft.
25:57
It doesn't feel like it can hurt you even if someone threw it at
26:00
you as hard as they can. Like there's there's nothing
26:03
about it that screams like this is going to be painful.
26:07
But if you've ever picked up an 11 oz.
26:10
Leather weighted baseball. It feels like a shot put, like
26:15
it is. Dense.
26:16
It's a brick that feels like it can hurt you.
26:20
So I think that might happen to have a layer of possibilities as
26:23
that being a factor as well. I have no idea.
26:26
I don't know why it's it's higher stress.
26:29
It's it's not a massive amount by any means.
26:32
If I were to think to myself, if I did a like a Figure 8 pivot
26:36
pick off with a blue plyo ball, typically I'm at like 8 to 12
26:42
Newton meters of bogus stress on a pole sensor, which is
26:46
incredibly low to begin with. But then whenever I would do it
26:50
with an 11 oz ball I would be at like 16-18 maybe even 20.
26:55
So why why that was happening I have I have no idea.
26:59
But it was something I noticed early on.
27:01
But then if? We take that step a little bit
27:04
farther. I actually utilize that into the
27:07
return to throw. I was like, we know we can.
27:10
We can find a way to manipulate this as well.
27:13
So what I've had guys do now is, you know, once we get to them to
27:16
the point where they can get through a full plyo set of
27:19
however many drills with whatever weights are needed for
27:22
that specific person. Some guys I'll have to three arm
27:25
action drills and like 3 moving drills.
27:27
Some ends up being like 4 arm action drills, 6 actual movement
27:31
base drills. Like whatever it may be, I'll
27:34
actually like when they're finished with that, I'll have
27:36
them go back to the heavier weighted leather balls, go back
27:41
a couple drills and then repeat them.
27:43
Going through the leather weighted balls and going down
27:47
and weight working into a normal baseball.
27:49
Not only for the proprioceptive factor of like feeling the
27:53
weight and going through the exact same drills, but then for
27:56
the psychological aspect as well is we feel the weight like the
28:00
Plio ball. So we're going to be able to
28:02
relax a little bit more, but now we're adding in the factor that
28:04
we can feel seams. So kind of helping them with
28:08
that transition of moving into a normal baseball, which for some
28:12
reason most guys struggle to go into layback and actually relax
28:16
with. But if we go through this
28:17
process, all of a sudden it seems like they don't have that
28:19
issue because they're already confident in their ability to
28:22
throw by the time they actually throw a normal baseball.
28:25
So I know that that's not something that is common and I
28:28
know that it's not necessarily something that is used quite a
28:32
bit within within return to throw, but it's something that I
28:34
found to be incredibly. Effective.
28:37
What drove you into this psychology esque while thinking
28:42
about these topics, trying to figure out how they apply to the
28:45
individual that I believe had to happen from somewhere.
28:50
Just natural inquisition. What was?
28:54
That. Drove you here so first.
28:56
And. Foremost just I can't remember
28:59
if it was an article that I read or a video that I saw, but just
29:04
someone I think it was. A random speech, I might have
29:07
even seen it in like an undergrad class, just like
29:09
talking about injury in the psychological factor that
29:12
happens with injury. That was definitely something
29:14
that sparked my interest to think about it differently.
29:18
But I think the bigger aspect is like going back to that, the
29:21
first rehab that I did for someone else.
29:24
This is an individual who pre TJ was incredibly pushy, hyper
29:29
mobile, but didn't ever reach layback.
29:32
So I was really confused with this individual.
29:35
If I crank them in the ER manually, they can probably get
29:39
to significantly past parallel with the ground.
29:43
And I was like there's no reason this person should have a pushy
29:46
arm action. So we just started with plyo
29:50
balls instead. And I was like what just
29:53
happened? Like I think I think his first
29:56
day of throwing and. Just terrible.
30:00
On his first day of throwing, I gave him green pivot.
30:02
Pickoffs. That was TJ Heavy.
30:05
For anybody that isn't familiar with ball weights, what's a?
30:09
2.2 lbs. Yeah, I was about to say 1K.
30:13
An absolute. Boulder.
30:16
But immediately it was the cleanest his arm action had
30:19
looked in like 2 years. And I was like, well, there's
30:21
something to this. And then we just kind of kept
30:23
playing around with it. Week 2, I had him get into the
30:27
point where we did our first like couple baseball throws and
30:29
it was immediately back to like a super pushy arm action.
30:32
I was like, yeah, no, we're not throwing a baseball again for
30:35
like another six weeks. Like I don't even want to touch
30:37
him. We're just going to work on
30:38
throwing and feeling that again. And then kind of went through
30:41
that transition. We got back to a baseball and it
30:43
was still a little bit pushy. That was kind of ingrained in
30:47
him for well more than a decade at that point, but it was the
30:49
best his arm action had ever ever looked as far as pushy
30:53
aspect actually starting to get laid back.
30:56
I think his his first Max effort bullpen.
30:58
You know, we were hitting all time PRS on on velocity.
31:01
So at that point in time I was just like, well, we're we're
31:05
going to keep experimenting with this.
31:06
We're just going to see what happens.
31:08
And I think that's one aspect of like how I do return to throws a
31:13
little bit different. Like, yes, we try and use as
31:17
much data as possible, but at the same time, I still view it
31:21
as an art, not a science. I mean, there's there's I think
31:24
there is a lot of art that goes into it because you do have to
31:28
have some feel that I can't tell us everything.
31:31
Group score doesn't measure dog. We can't we can't go on that.
31:35
We got to find like a happy medium to utilizing tech, but
31:38
then also not becoming inundated to that data and making it
31:43
right. Like we still know that we have
31:45
to push things. We still know that sometimes we
31:48
might want to push things, but we can't.
31:50
So just kind of like having that feel and art form aspects being
31:53
added back into. It which is funny that we say.
31:55
This as I'm starting a series covering all of the tech that
31:58
we're using for myself. It's a given and take, but yeah,
32:02
also I I think that goes to the individuality of programming.
32:06
You look at an individual, the art form is the implement you
32:10
might be using or the drills that you prescribed to an
32:15
individual. I think that's where you'll
32:18
still see the art in your return to throw is You want to do
32:22
correctives or constraint based throwing that enables you to
32:26
achieve the movements that you are chasing.
32:29
But you're going to use data along the way to ensure that you
32:34
are making the strides that you need to make to be healthy.
32:38
It's both sides of the coin. How do you, how do you
32:41
individualize to feel healthy and then how can you check to
32:46
ensure that the measures that you're taking on the art side
32:50
are backed by a science based approach?
32:53
Yes, I think, I think that's the perfect way to say it.
32:56
Yeah. I don't even really have
32:57
anything else on that. That was pretty much.
33:00
Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much.
33:02
I appreciate that. I, I do feel I've gained a bit
33:06
of a better understanding of how you're incorporating the art in
33:08
the process. I like the idea of getting away
33:12
from the throw count in a sense and more focusing on what work
33:17
is an individual prepared to do on that day and figuring out a
33:21
way to value that work. So that's that's where we get
33:25
the individualization. It's not so much that it has to
33:28
be everybody does something entirely different because this
33:33
mover does a drill, it means it's bad for somebody else.
33:36
No, that's not necessarily the case.
33:39
You can get into the implements that you use where you can
33:44
differ from guy to guy. You can get into the volume
33:47
where it differs from guy to guy.
33:49
I it looks like you're chomping at the bit to get back in here,
33:52
so I'm just going to shut up and and let you go.
33:54
I don't know where you're going, but I'm just going to shut up
33:56
and let you go. So one of the fun aspects of how
34:00
I do return to throw is like, yes, we're going to pick the
34:03
right drill. Yes, we're going to try and pick
34:05
the right weight. But a couple months ago I
34:07
actually had two guys there on the same college team reach out
34:09
to me. I'm doing both of their return
34:11
to throws. I have a really good
34:12
relationship with this school. I reach out to me and like, hey,
34:17
why are we doing the same return to throw program?
34:19
You said it was individualized and I said pay more attention.
34:22
They couldn't figure it out. The one thing I said was compare
34:26
your arm speeds. So when I write out their
34:29
programs, yes, I'm picking the drill, yes, I'm picking the
34:32
right weight of ball that we're going to be using with it.
34:34
But the other thing that I'm programming is a maximum arm
34:37
speed or an arm speed range for that drill.
34:40
Now we know that the pulse isn't perfectly accurate when it comes
34:44
to arm speed. It has an error of up to 75 RPM
34:49
in either direction, but at least we can get close.
34:52
I have had a big leader who can hit 98 at 900 RPM, but then I
34:59
also have an 18 year old who tops 86 at 1500 RPM.
35:06
We can't treat that process the exact same way.
35:10
The dude who? Throws 98 at 900 RPM.
35:12
His arm speed goals should be significantly lower than the kid
35:16
who can reach 1500 RPM. We know arm speed is a large
35:21
correlation with velocity. But then there's again, it's
35:24
it's not rocket science like there's some art form to it.
35:26
We have guys who can throw incredibly hard with low arm
35:30
speeds do the same way we have guys who have high strikeout
35:33
rates with low spin rates. We have to own the fact that
35:39
everyone is different. We can have goals and we can
35:41
have expectations or guidelines on what we want guys to be able
35:44
to achieve. We have an understanding of
35:46
where we want spin rates to be. Preferably we have an idea that
35:52
this was going to be the average arm speed of someone who throws
35:54
this velocity. And it's it's great to know
35:57
those things, but if you don't have prior knowledge of the
36:00
athlete, I think you're just kind of shooting blanks.
36:02
Like you're shooting, you're throwing stuff at a wall and
36:05
hoping something sticks if you're trying to program arm
36:07
speeds. But if you have someone who has
36:09
thrown on a pulse. Pre TJ, if you have videos of
36:13
them pre TJ, and then even better, if you have videos of
36:16
them throwing as a kid to where you can look at like what their
36:19
most authentic movement patterns are going to be.
36:23
I think that can really give you some better guidelines on how to
36:26
treat that specific individual rather than treating it as a
36:30
regular case of like, hey, this is just the guy who walked in.
36:33
This is our protocol. Think back in and make some
36:36
really big changes for you. I mean, I made that mistake a
36:38
couple months ago. College coach said like, hey,
36:40
he's a really, really high arm speed guy.
36:42
And I was like, yeah. Sure.
36:45
I was like, I don't, I don't see he might be high, but like he's
36:48
not insane. Like I, I personally got up to
36:52
like 1400 in college. Like I, my arm moved very fast.
36:56
I didn't think that this kid would be peaking at 1300 at 70.
37:00
Percent. I was expecting like.
37:04
Seven 5800, maybe 900. And day one I got 1300 back and
37:09
I was like, OK, everything I wrote like we're just going to
37:11
erase all of it and we're just going to start over because like
37:14
this is not going to work. Because like the first thing
37:16
that he said was tried to hit my arm speed for this drill.
37:20
It was supposed to be at 600, but I looked like a robot and I
37:24
couldn't get into lay back. So I went up to seven 5800 for a
37:29
couple of reps and all of a sudden everything got smooth
37:31
again. And I was like, OK, so then you
37:34
just start to kind of figure out where the, you know, another art
37:37
form of it. Like we may want a specific arm
37:40
speed for a specific workload, but if it's going to be really
37:43
robotic and they're not going to be able to relax, then it
37:45
doesn't matter anyways. We have to try and move along
37:48
what's going to be athletic and smooth, even though the arm
37:51
speed might be higher than we and we want it to be, but if
37:55
it's smooth and it's relaxed, odds are it's probably going to
37:57
be less stressful than if we're trying to hit the arm speed
38:00
anyways. There's give and take on so many
38:03
different aspects when it comes to the return to throw that I
38:06
don't think you truly can have a blanket process for anyone.
38:10
You can have blanket ideals and guidelines and I think that's
38:13
about it. Like everything else, like it's
38:16
just so different person to person.
38:18
You just kind of have to have be able to work through it with
38:21
them. And if and if you're doing a
38:22
remote return to throw if, if they can't communicate very
38:25
well, you're just kind of screwed to begin with.
38:27
Like communication has to be a one.
38:30
I'm sure you deal with that often since 90% of your business
38:34
is remote anyways, but I I wanted to take a quick step back
38:39
again asking you for fact, hypothesis, personal experience,
38:44
anything when you bring up a guy can throw harder with a lower
38:49
arm speed. Although we know arm speed has
38:52
some sort of correlation to velocity, that's been shown time
38:55
and time again. Guys who can throw hard with
38:58
lower arm speeds, are they just generating the force from
39:02
somewhere else in their sequence in their system?
39:07
I think that's a really good question.
39:08
I think it can be different person to person on like what
39:11
that aspect might be on why they can throw harder at a lower arm
39:14
speed. Some of it might be strength
39:16
related. But then I think a larger
39:18
portion of it is going to be the mechanical sequencing side,
39:21
right? Like the more efficient they
39:23
sequence, they don't have to move quite as fast.
39:26
And I think the other thing that I've noticed is guys with longer
39:29
levers tend to have lower arm speeds to begin with because
39:34
they don't have to move violently, right?
39:36
Like in college, my mechanics looked a lot like Tim, let's
39:39
come for a reason. You've met me.
39:41
I am 5/8. In college, I was 160 lbs and I
39:45
had to find a way to sit 90 plus that wasn't going to happen by
39:49
just moving traditionally. So I really experimented with
39:53
all all those kinds of things. But then, yeah, like for some
39:56
reason, a name that that comes to mind that's been able to do
40:00
high velocities at low arm speeds is Ben Heller, right?
40:04
He's a Milwaukee guy and he's from Milwaukee.
40:06
He just signed with the Cubs. He's been up and down injury
40:09
plagued for the last. 6-7 years whatever it may be, works with
40:14
Tread Athletics and then Kinetic Sports medicine performance
40:17
which I know we both have a relationship with as well but.
40:21
That dude can. Sit upper 90s with sub 1000 RPM
40:26
arm speed. Meanwhile we have little Jimmy
40:29
who's 14 right next to him top in 74 at 1300 RPM.
40:33
I'm starting to get to the point where I view arm speed similar
40:36
to spin rate. We can control some, we can't
40:38
control all of it. And it's part of it is just
40:40
like, hey, this is what you're gifted with.
40:43
I would guess maybe on that I'm just fit balling here, but maybe
40:47
the intrapersonal relationship with arm speed matters
40:51
significantly more than the interpersonal relationship with
40:54
arm speed. I would think so.
40:56
There's only been one return to throw guy where I like made arm
40:59
speed and emphasis and that's because the kid was hitting 90
41:02
miles an hour at 800 RPM and I was like this is wild.
41:05
This is not right. Like your arm is moving like
41:07
molasses and you're hitting 90 miles an hour with that kid.
41:10
We actually had a big under load emphasis to where he can create
41:14
more arm speed and have have good feel for what that is.
41:16
Think after he finished his TJ rehab.
41:19
Throughout this last fall, he's been able to take average arm
41:23
speed on Max effort days up like 75 to 100 RPM.
41:28
Doesn't really sound like a lot, but it for him it was massive
41:33
because the things that have come along with that is, you
41:36
know, not necessarily a lot more VLO.
41:38
I think VLO's only gone up another one or two, but spin
41:42
rate has also gone up. And to me like that's a probably
41:46
a pretty good trade off for that kid as he wasn't a very high
41:49
spin rate guy to begin with. I think it can, it can go a lot
41:53
of different ways, but typically I'm not just sitting here saying
41:57
like hey, let's train for arm speed.
41:59
If we can move efficiently, if we can sequence well and the V
42:02
LO is popping up, then like I don't care what the arm speed
42:04
is. If the V LO is not popping up
42:06
and it looks like we're moving pretty well, even better.
42:09
If we can get some biomechanical data that says like, hey, we are
42:11
moving really well, but arm speed is just really low.
42:14
Like then maybe I'll, I'll think that as the main prerogative of
42:18
training, but it's it's pretty rare that I, I view it as like,
42:22
hey, let's just do arm speed work.
42:25
Makes sense to me, and without a better transition available, I
42:31
just want to jump into the neural stuff.
42:33
You teach it earlier and I I think I'm ready.
42:37
I'm mentally prepared unless, unless there's other stuff in
42:40
the return to throw that you feel like we haven't covered
42:43
that you want to hit on. The neural stuff I found very
42:46
interesting just from our private conversations.
42:49
I think you can educate the audience here.
42:52
So if you want to start bird's eye view and just slowly just
42:58
scoop down towards the earth and give us the nitty gritty at the
43:01
end that that would be great. All right, so I'll.
43:04
I'll try and cover the things that I can legally talk on.
43:08
Basically, I train the nervous system using a system called
43:12
Square One, created by Sean Sherman, his main offices in
43:16
Chicago. Then the guys who actually got
43:18
me into it are Jared Slater, former Tread employees, just
43:22
starting his own facility in Charleston, SC in the next
43:25
couple months. And then Rob Blanc, which most
43:29
people in the industry are going to know who that is about me
43:31
saying anything about him, kind of got into this.
43:35
And the the main thing that was being told to me is like, hey,
43:38
you know, we're not allowed to really teach you what this is.
43:41
But all we can say is it's going to change everything.
43:45
And I'm just like, yeah, totally, like the biggest
43:49
skeptic in the world. And I was like, as educated as I
43:53
am, as many courses I've taken, like the knowledge that I've
43:56
tried to obtain, like, there's nothing that's going to just
43:59
tell me like, hey, everything I know is wrong, I need to
44:02
transition. I was wrong.
44:05
Everything I know is wrong, and I needed to transition.
44:08
The interpretation of it is square 1 is a way to interview
44:13
the nervous system. We're trying to figure out if
44:17
specific joint actions, muscle actions, really any, anything
44:22
going through any type of sense, right smell, taste, sounds, you
44:27
name it, whether or not that is triggering your nervous system
44:31
into a protective tension state. And then we're trying to
44:34
reorganize the nervous system to no longer view that item as a
44:38
threat. That's kind of how it works in
44:41
an overview type way. But if you're trying to
44:47
understand what occurs, I kind of take the black box theory
44:51
with it is here's what goes in, here's what comes out.
44:55
There's a bunch of stuff that happens in this big black box in
44:58
the middle that none of it matters as long as I know what
45:01
happens over here. So with square 1, you never know
45:06
what the outcome of your work is going to be.
45:10
Getting into it a little bit more like there's ways that we
45:11
can predict, there's ways that we can try and work on more
45:14
specific things, but with the general consensus of level 1 is
45:17
you don't know what the outcome is going to be.
45:20
Now I deal behind it and like the way that I've I've explained
45:23
it to where people can understand it a little better is
45:25
the nervous system controls everything in your body.
45:29
It's electrical currents going from one place to another.
45:32
Making sure communications are happening makes so that
45:35
processes can be started, whether that be chemical or
45:39
mechanical like it, it doesn't really matter, right?
45:41
Like everything starts with an electric communication of some
45:45
sort through the nervous system. So I view the nervous system.
45:49
As a really, really, really big angle of speaker wires, right?
45:56
And within all of these speaker wires, there's thousands of
45:59
little connections and all of those connections have frayed
46:03
endings to where within that speaker wire we may have 100
46:06
copper wires. Well, maybe only five of them
46:08
are still touching. As we try and clear the neural
46:14
issues or dysfunction and cleaning up the inputs, we're
46:17
trying to reconnect all of those wires and make sure that we have
46:21
a more solid conduction of of those currents.
46:25
And by doing so, the output of whatever we're trying to achieve
46:31
typically gets more efficient. Now we can think about this in
46:36
the simple terms of like the main way people are using square
46:40
1 and nervous system training is to get people out of protective
46:42
tension so they're no longer in pain, right?
46:44
Like we deal with a lot of guys, people with back pain.
46:47
Do the normal stuff, but if you have a little.
46:51
Bit more of an open viewpoint on square 1 and nervous system
46:56
training. You can utilize it in any way
47:00
that you really want to. So I've also utilized it in
47:04
terms of motor learning. I've used it in terms of power
47:10
output. For instance, a split squat,
47:12
right? Like what if just going into a
47:15
split squat and doing it with no weight is triggering your
47:17
nervous system to where your output is low?
47:20
OK, well if we clear the movement pattern, we clear the
47:23
load loading mechanism where maybe holding the weight is no
47:27
longer triggering our nervous system either.
47:30
What if you find out that you can produce like 40% more power
47:33
output than you thought and you've never been able to do it
47:36
before and all of a sudden you can do it in 5 minutes and it
47:39
doesn't go away? To me, that seems like
47:44
everything that we know about the human body is probably not
47:47
quite that accurate, right? Like if we can make these large
47:50
amount of changes incredibly quickly, that can change
47:55
everything. You know, one way that we can
47:57
kind of put it into like return to throw or something along
48:00
those lines is I know we're both pretty familiar with the TJ
48:04
surgery itself and what happens. But at the end, before they sew
48:08
you back up, what do they do with your arm?
48:11
I slam it all over and make sure that it moves and it's going to
48:14
stay stable. Well, then why can't we move it
48:17
an hour later? Like, why?
48:20
Like why is it in a brace and why can't we move it even if we
48:23
try to? That doesn't make any sense.
48:26
Then we get to this point, like, oh, main thing is let's regain
48:29
all of our range of motion and our elbow extension and so on
48:32
and so forth. And maybe that takes four to six
48:35
weeks. What if we can do it in 10
48:37
minutes? That speeds up the process quite
48:39
a bit right now, maybe not the ligament maturation process of
48:43
like it becoming an actual ligament, but if we can get to
48:46
the point to where we're training the musculature that
48:49
much faster because we don't have to deal with trying to
48:51
regain ranges of motion. We're just getting rid of the
48:53
protective tension that comes along with the surgery.
48:56
Then my thought process is we can, we can make everything
48:59
happen quite a bit faster. So square 1 and nervous system
49:03
training, like there's, there's only so much that I can say
49:06
about it because you know, it is, it is a business.
49:08
Like there is things that I'm not allowed to talk about when
49:11
it comes to it because we want other people to take the courses
49:14
and get educated on it as well. But it can, it can truly make
49:19
some absolutely massive changes. For instance, Jared Slater's
49:24
made a couple posts about me what was going on during the
49:27
course that I took because he was actually present for it.
49:30
But I actually took that course three weeks after partially
49:36
tearing my UCL topic for a different time.
49:38
I was being an idiot when I did that.
49:40
I took it three weeks after I had.
49:42
I tore my UCL. I didn't know how torn it was at
49:44
this point. Now we know that it's about 25%,
49:47
but I was, I was still in a significant amount of pain and.
49:51
After going through. I don't know, 5 to 10 minutes
49:54
worth of work. He just tossed me a tennis ball
49:56
and said, hey, throw this. And I was like, dude, I just
49:58
tore my UCL. He's like, yeah, I know throw
50:00
this. And I threw it and I had no
50:02
pain. And I was like last night in
50:03
bed, I could literally just lay my arm back and like I was going
50:06
to feel like there was a knife in my elbow.
50:08
So then then you kind of I kind of got to the point where it's
50:11
like, OK, well, our injury is really that big of a deal.
50:14
Or is our body just telling us they're a bigger deal than they
50:16
actually are? Like if we can rehab a partially
50:22
torn UCL and half the time which we're about to experiment with
50:26
ourselves, then like what's actually going on here?
50:29
So trying, trying to interview the nervous system, figuring out
50:32
like it could be a multitude of different things that are
50:34
triggering you. And I found that for people with
50:37
less robust nervous systems who haven't gone through a lot of
50:39
neural training, pretty much anything and everything is going
50:42
to trigger your nervous system into a protective state.
50:44
Like I can sit here and wave my hand over your hand and your
50:49
little hairs on the top of your hand are going to feel it.
50:51
That's probably going to trigger your nervous system.
50:54
Like it really is. Is that simple?
50:56
Like the smallest things can trigger you into a protective
50:59
state. And so I've kind of gotten to
51:00
this point where my thought process is by the time that
51:03
you're 30, if you're not doing nervous system training, odds
51:06
are you're only functioning at like 50% capacity on anything,
51:10
whether that be cognitive, mechanical, whatever, like pain
51:16
levels, you name it. Like you're operating at a very
51:19
low potential and you could be operating at a much higher
51:22
potential. I mean, I've had guys with ADHD
51:25
come back to me after the first couple sessions and like, hey, I
51:28
quit taking my ADHD medication. I'm like, why would you do that?
51:31
Like you're a space cadet. And they're like, I don't need
51:34
it. I can literally just be present.
51:36
Can have a better understanding of what's going on around me and
51:40
so on and so forth to the point where like they don't have to
51:42
take their Adderall or their vivance, whatever ADHD
51:45
medication they're on anymore. Bad guys where it's like a
51:48
pitching coach that I was with it at ABCA that that you met.
51:51
He has a torn labor man and shoulder and it's been torn for
51:54
10-11 years. Yeah, I messed with his eyes for
51:57
about 3 minutes and he hasn't had shoulder pain since.
51:59
So there's no good way to explain it other than like going
52:05
through it and having someone take you through it.
52:06
But it is the wildest thing ever because we can go into like the
52:11
weirdness of like, hey, constraint throwing drills.
52:14
Like they're focusing on this. Well, if the nervous systems in
52:16
protective tension, they're not working on anything.
52:18
But if the nervous system is not in protective tension, you might
52:21
not even need that constrained drill because they might just
52:24
move more efficiently and move more authentically without you
52:27
having to doing anything. I've had guys mechanics change
52:29
after just going through a 30 minute square one session, not
52:33
talking about their mechanics and not working on throwing at
52:35
all. Like we might just do a square
52:38
one session where we're working on triggers that are purely
52:41
visual and the next thing you know their mechanics change and
52:44
V lows up like 3 or 4 miles an hour and you're just sitting
52:47
here like all we had to do was get.
52:48
The body out of. Protective tension, like I think
52:52
that really can't open up a lot of doors because then the
52:54
second, like your body is no longer viewing the things that
52:57
you're doing on a regular basis as triggering every aspect of
53:02
the human body can become more efficient.
53:04
And if we've had that understanding that everything is
53:08
happening through an electrical current, and then that process
53:11
is becoming started or whatever it may be, whether it's protein
53:14
synthesis, whatever, if every single aspect of it is becoming
53:19
more efficient, that sounds pretty good to me, right?
53:22
Like if our muscles can recover 25% faster just because our
53:26
nervous system is working better, that means we can train
53:28
harder. That means we can train more
53:30
often if we can learn a new movement pattern faster.
53:32
Sweet be that. Ten week time frame in which we
53:35
were going to be working on mechanical stuff before we go
53:37
into a Velo phase. Maybe now that's only three or
53:40
four weeks and now we have more time to go through a below
53:42
phase, which means we can have the potential for adding more
53:45
VLO. There's hundreds of different
53:48
ways that you can use it, hundreds of different ways to
53:50
think about it, but the big overarching emphasis is we're
53:54
just trying to clean up what the body is interpreting.
53:57
That way the output of whatever it interprets is more efficient
54:01
and more robust. One good thing that I, I like to
54:04
look at is the overhead squat, right?
54:07
Like you can see minor changes in an overhead squat pretty
54:11
easily. You can see the spine angle, you
54:13
can see whether or not the hips dump under, you can see the
54:18
center of mass shift based off shin angle.
54:20
You can see a lot of different things.
54:22
And I have someone do an overhead squat first time.
54:25
Chin angle is going to be a little bit more vertical.
54:28
Hips are going to be dumped under just a little bit, and
54:31
when they get to the top, they can't quite get their arms in
54:34
line with their spine. They're going to be a little bit
54:36
further forward and hunched over a little bit.
54:39
Next thing you know, you go through 15 minutes of square one
54:42
work and we've doubled the shin angle so the center mass is
54:47
shifted more, more efficiently. The hips don't dump under
54:51
anymore because now we've opened up range of motion or we'll call
54:54
it mobility because we can actually utilize that range of
54:57
motion now at the hips. And then we have better core and
55:01
spine control. Next thing you know that the
55:03
spine is in a straight line. Like all of these things
55:06
changing and we didn't work on the overhead squad at all.
55:09
So you're just starting to clean up the process is going going on
55:12
within the body to where it can do almost anything more
55:15
efficiently. That's my current understanding
55:17
of it, right? And and I think it is going to
55:19
continue to evolve over time. I've definitely started to
55:23
experiment it with it on some some other sides of things that
55:27
I'm not willing to talk about quite yet that we can
55:30
potentially have some fun with on on later on.
55:33
But the results of it have been absolutely mind boggling to a
55:38
point where I had a kid that soon returned to throw.
55:42
He had internal brace and he's at 18 months and he was stuck at
55:48
84 miles an hour. And this is a kid who's been up
55:51
to 90 pre TJ and would normally sit 8688.
55:55
Not really any issues like just for some reason like just
55:58
wouldn't come out. Elbow would get stiff after
56:01
throwing. Not really painful, just like
56:03
stiff, whatever. We go through a first square one
56:06
session and all of a sudden like elbow stiffness isn't happening
56:11
after we're throwing anymore. I'm like, OK, cool.
56:13
Well, we're in the middle of AD load.
56:15
I just fried your nervous system by training it.
56:17
We're going to extend this D load a little bit more and see
56:19
what happens in the next V load day that he had.
56:22
We're hitting PRS and you know, just last week I got a video of
56:26
him and his most recent bullpen where he sat 87 O to 88.9 the
56:33
entire time. Now PR isn't matching what we
56:37
hit pre TJ, but the average is already higher than what we were
56:40
at pre TJ. Now I'm going to be wrong.
56:43
It's been a really, really long process for him.
56:45
We've had quite a few random setbacks of like how could we
56:49
have seen this coming type stuff, but next thing you know
56:52
like we have no issues after we've involved square one.
56:56
Have another kid very similar. He's a couple months further
56:59
behind in his process. Another internal brace guy that
57:03
was having issues trying to get back to previous levels.
57:06
I just got a video from him two or three nights ago and he just
57:10
popped his first 90 since TJ. He was stuck at that like 8688
57:15
range for like 4 months and we could not blow through it.
57:18
And I'm like, I'm sitting here, I've thrown everything at it and
57:21
we've gone to like time frames where we just like quit lifting.
57:26
We're doing all power and output work, like all sprints and
57:29
plyometrics, all that kind of stuff.
57:30
He'll still wouldn't budget. And I'm just in here like I've
57:32
thrown everything at this kid. I take this course, I go see him
57:36
in person. We go through a little bit of a
57:37
session. I go through a couple more
57:39
sessions over Zoom with him and the next thing you know, like
57:44
hitting 90 and like it was funny seeing the the video of him
57:47
because he's a kid who's been up to mid 90s before it's 90.
57:51
Doesn't even react, just turns around.
57:55
It's like a sigh of relief. House back on the mountain just
57:58
keeps going. But like it's it's been nuts
58:00
because like the guys who are dealing with barriers that we
58:03
can't figure out will go through a square one session.
58:06
All the sudden the barriers are gone, especially on a rehab
58:08
process. Whether it's TJ, shoulder, ATL,
58:13
like it doesn't matter. I think if you're not utilizing
58:16
a type of neural training then you're already 5 steps behind.
58:22
You can make that process significantly faster.
58:25
That's my general overview. Well, I appreciate that.
58:29
I fear asking any questions of turning this into an 8 hour long
58:34
podcast because I I maybe, maybe I should have just left it alone
58:39
because now I have more questions than I have from when
58:42
I started. So this, this is probably a good
58:45
time for you to share any contact info or ways people can
58:50
get in touch with you because I'm guessing they're going to
58:53
feel similarly to me. Yeah.
58:56
OK, so something I'm actually going to be starting up this
59:00
month is normally I don't take on any clients unless they're a
59:03
full time client. So you can find me on Instagram
59:07
at full send performance training Linktree is on there
59:10
for you to be able to find Twitter, my website,
59:12
applications, everything like that.
59:14
But then I'm also going to add something to my application
59:16
process here in the next 24 hours or so as I've talked to a
59:20
couple other people. But I'm going to add an option
59:22
for just getting on like a one hour call and either like if
59:26
you're having pain issues, as long as it's not like physical
59:30
damage, right? Like nervous system training
59:33
can't fix physical damage. Like if you have a broken bone
59:37
or something like that, Like we're not just going to fix it,
59:39
but whether you know you're having pain issues like that,
59:42
you can actually go ahead and apply.
59:44
And we can set up a call to go through a remote square one
59:48
session. And on top of that, if you want
59:52
to use half of that session for to go over a mechanical analysis
59:56
or whatever that may be, we can kind of leave those options up
59:59
to it. But I'm going to start open
1:00:00
myself up for some more, just like one off calls with people.
1:00:04
And then for the people who do want to actually train with me
1:00:07
full time or need someone to help guide them through a return
1:00:11
to throw process, that's where the the full time training
1:00:13
really, really comes into effect.
1:00:16
I think we've done some very different things, and most guys
1:00:19
do with the remote training. Obviously we have an app,
1:00:21
software, all that kind of fun stuff.
1:00:23
But then we've got a group Slack account with all of all of our
1:00:26
athletes where they can communicate.
1:00:28
I can communicate to the group, whatever it may be.
1:00:30
There's all kinds of fun things that I want to do within within
1:00:34
that community. And then another fun aspect is
1:00:36
we're actually taking on another coach sometime this summer, not
1:00:41
white ready to make that full announcement yet, but the team
1:00:44
is growing and so will our product offering with that.
1:00:48
One thing that's that's been really evident within the remote
1:00:53
training structure is once guys are in college, depending on the
1:00:58
college, like we might not be able to do a lot for you.
1:01:00
So I think we're actually going to start to get into a little
1:01:02
bit more of, you know, actually looking at pitch usage analytics
1:01:07
and scouting reports for guys that are in the on the college
1:01:10
realm as well to really help them dial in that aspect.
1:01:15
I have this big weird audacious goal that in like 10 years, I'm
1:01:18
also going to have agents on my payroll as well.
1:01:21
So the goal is kind of beat out one stop shop, whether you're
1:01:23
the from the time that you're 1314 years old, you can come in
1:01:27
and you know, we'll cover all the rehab, we'll cover all the
1:01:29
training. We have the agency and
1:01:31
advisement part and effect that makes recruitment and all that
1:01:35
kind of fun stuff really easy. Transition of pro ball.
1:01:38
We can be your one stop shop. That's I mean that's kind of
1:01:40
like the overarching goal. But yeah, that's kind of all the
1:01:42
things that you can kind of see coming out in the future.
1:01:45
Reach for the stars, so if you fall, you land on a cloud.
1:01:47
I love it, love the approach. Good for you.
1:01:50
It sounds like we can close the book on this chapter of the
1:01:54
Chaplain at the Chapel of Cheddar's Journey.
1:01:58
Thank you for hopping on with us.
1:02:00
It was great to talk to you and we appreciate all the
1:02:03
information. To all the listeners out there,
1:02:06
thanks for laying back with us.