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- Gregory Wilnau: Melissa, how are you doing today? Melissa Yano: Hi. I'm good. Thanks. Gregory Wilnau: Thanks for coming on the podcast. I've been looking forward to chatting with you. We Melissa Yano: Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: we tried a couple times, had some technical difficulties, but this time we made it. So we're Melissa Yano: Here we are. Gregory Wilnau: we're here we are, we're all good. to get started, why don't you just take a moment and tell us a little bit about your your practice and what you specialize in. Melissa Yano: Sure. So I am a small solo shop. I own the firm and it's myself as the advisor and admin. And we really specialize in planning for small business owners. And so I'm a C F P and I'm also a C E X P and so I am certified in exit planning. So helping business owners plan while they're working in the business, their exit of the business, and then after that too. Gregory Wilnau: So you really specialize in business owners? Melissa Yano: Mm-hmm. Gregory Wilnau: Okay. maybe you could take a moment to tell us a little bit more about kind of what inspired you to do this. Why did you choose working with business owners in particular? What led you to that path? Melissa Yano: it was accidental, honestly. So Gregory Wilnau: The best things the best things happen by accident sometimes. Melissa Yano: Life leads you on a path, and there you are. Gregory Wilnau: That's right. Melissa Yano: I I am now in California, but I'm originally from the Midwest. And when I got out of school, I worked for a couple of firms there doing something very different. initially working with retirees, and then I worked at a very high net worth family office, working with multi-generational wealth. And then I moved out here and thought Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: I would again work in a family office, and there really weren't Any that I could find in the Sacramento area. They're mostly in the Bay area. And so I got a job at a small firm that worked with business owners and did all of the things, financial Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: planning, group benefits, 401k, and other retirement plans, insurance, exit planning, all of those things. And so I have been here Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Melissa Yano: 15 years. And so I've I've done this particular path for 15 years. Gregory Wilnau: I I love it. Wow, from the Midwest to California, that's quite a that's quite a jot there. that Melissa Yano: Mm. Gregory Wilnau: must have been a big change for you when you first arrived, not just for what you did, but also, you know, lifestyle and environment. I wanna take a step back and and ask you more about what you were doing before, what you're doing now and kind of some of the differences. So you said you were working with family offices that were dealing with multi generational wealth, which is Melissa Yano: Mm-hmm. Two hundred and fifty million plus. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Obviously very complex, nuanced, yeah, lot, lots. and now you're working mainly with business owners. So what what's the this might seem like a silly question, but what are some of the key differences that you find most interesting or enjoyable in working with business owners as compared with maybe where you came from before? Not that one's Melissa Yano: Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: better than the other, but there are differences, and I'm curious about Melissa Yano: Definitely defenseless. Gregory Wilnau: I'm not I'm curious about that. Melissa Yano: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I initially got into financial planning because I needed to learn it for myself. I had no idea what I was doing, and my parents didn't teach me because they didn't know and we didn't have any money. I grew up in poverty. And so that's how I got on the path in the beginning. And I was interested in knowing it because I didn't know it. And then I realized how many people don't know it because they're not taught. So now I find planning for business owners very interesting because I own a business and I run a business. And I know how many people have a business but don't do it intentionally because they were never taught how Gregory Wilnau: Many things. Melissa Yano: to run a business. They were doing something. They were an attorney, they worked in construction, they were a salesperson, they were a financial advisor, and then they owned a business. And and it's a whole different job. And there's much more complexity. There's also many more opportunities for tax planning and things like that when you're a business owner. So If you're in a high net worth family office situation, there's a lot more work with preserving wealth for maybe the next three or four generations in perpetuity, if you can. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: So there's a lot more work around estate planning, a lot of work around tax planning and very creative ways to do that, which I don't I don't see as much out here on the West Coast. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: and I don't see as much in the space that I work in now. Gregory Wilnau: And I did have a question for you. Melissa Yano: Yes. Gregory Wilnau: don't mo isn't most generational wealth created through business in some way? I know there's three asset classes. There's really three ways to do it, right? Like real estate, paper assets and and business. But Don't most business owners many isn't most generation multi generation wealth created through through business? Do you notice any patterns there? Melissa Yano: That's a good that's a good question. And I would say yes. I would also say the size of business, hmm, it depends. There were certainly clients that I had there in the family office where the the wealth was created in, you know, CEOs or CFOs of Fortune 500 companies with significant stock options. and so wealth was created that Gregory Wilnau: Okay. Yeah. Melissa Yano: way. But yes, Oftentimes the business though is is bigger than what I work with now. So I work with small business owners that are really only probably up to about fifteen million dollars in revenue annually. So I'm not working with Fortune five hundred, Fortune one hundred companies now. Gregory Wilnau: Okay, okay, okay. Melissa Yano: and then oftentimes those were second or third generation, either business owners or it was future generations that had gotten the benefit of like a prior business that a parent, grandparent, maybe a couple of generations back had started and maybe sold. So I think it just depends on the situation. Gregory Wilnau: Okay. All right. Let's let's let's talk about that a little bit more. Let's talk a little bit more about your the people you serve and and and what makes for a good fit. Maybe you could dis to take a moment to describe the kind of person who comes to you. I know it's business owners, but what are some of the questions that they typically ask when they meet with you for the first time? What's kinda keeping them up at night? Melissa Yano: Yeah. So I generally get business owner clients. Either I meet them out in the the area or at you know, because I'm going to functions too with business owners. or they're referred to me by a CPA or a bookkeeper or an attorney or someone an insurance broker, someone like that. So oftentimes they have a question about their business or they're starting to talk about an exit of the business, or they often Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: have the business is stable, they're doing well, they've got good cash flow, and maybe they're accumulating cash and they're not sure what to do with it. So they the business is going, the business is running, but they're they're thinking what's next for me? How do I optimize this? So those are the questions I get oftentimes. or maybe they there's been something where they've had a colleague or a a parent or a friend who has exited a business or been talking about it and that's made them d realize they have not even thought about Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. What makes what's the difference between working with you and say a CPA as a business owner? What do would they do they would a business owner get by working with you that they couldn't work with just working with a CPA? Melissa Yano: Yeah, that's a good question. And I often get asked if I do tax returns, which I do not. I'm not a CPA. So CPAs, generally speaking, are backwards looking. So you Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: give them everything you've done through the year and they inter they put it on the tax return and they tell you what you owe and perhaps what you're going to pay in estimated taxes, et cetera. If they're proactive, they may say, you know, maybe you should do more on a profit sharing. Your 401k this year that will bring your taxes down, or maybe you should open a solo 401k, or they might have some strategies there. We are forward looking, and so I'm looking Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: at the whole big picture of the business owner, their business, how it supports their personal life and finances, and looking at all of the proactive things we can do throughout the year to save on taxes, to defer taxes, Maybe we're tax lost harvesting in the in the investment accounts, how we're structuring the investment accounts, how we're you know, putting different things in those. And so we're much more proactive. I'm also looking at how that fits in with their insurance and and how that supports the overall picture and their estate plan and and what are we setting up, you know, looking forward for that, and how are we structuring the business and cash flow and all of those things for an eventual exit? Like is the business itself healthy. So I think I'd take a a Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Melissa Yano: an overall approach. Gregory Wilnau: Pretty comprehensive. Yeah. Yeah, I that makes a lot of sense. let's let's get specific here. I want to be able to visualize maybe a situation that a typical prospective client will find themselves in that prompts them to reach out to you. What's that like? Could you take us through maybe a typical situation? Melissa Yano: Sure. So my typical client is going to be either a solo owner or I often work with husband wife owners, or perhaps it's just, you know, two or three partners that own a business, a small closely held business, often an S Corp. and so I most recently had a client come to me that I had known through other advisors and through groups. Yeah, in this particular case said, I have an advisor. I haven't talked to them in a long time. they set up an account for me and then we've done nothing else. And my situation's changed pretty significantly since then. and this person had a lot of cash and was like, What am I what should I be doing now? And so we really I met with the business owner. The the spouse is not in the business, but we met all together because I always want to meet with the spouse if somebody is married or partnered, Gregory Wilnau: Yes, yeah. Melissa Yano: to discuss what what the goal was. I mean, what is what do they want to do? Because that informs what the planning should look like. And oftentimes they they don't Gregory Wilnau: Absolutely. Absolutely. Melissa Yano: know their whole picture. They thought they really didn't have very much money and they have a pretty significant net worth. So that's sometimes a surprise, right? Gregory Wilnau: Well that would be a nice, nice surprise, right? That'd be a real nice surprise. Yeah, I love that. When is it a good time for a business owner or business owner couples to to reach out? How will a business owner know it's it's time? What what what should they be looking for? Melissa Yano: I think if usually it's going to be a business owner that's that's at least established three to five years in a business. So they have an idea of their seasons of business. They have, you know, enough cash flow to kind of cover the business. They know the rhythms of the business. They've done it long enough that they understand the generalities, but oftentimes they're going have questions that they can't get someone to answer. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: and oftentimes they know that there there should be something else they're doing, but they're not sure what the next step is. So, like I said, sometimes it's just okay, we've got a cash, we're paying ourselves. Should we pay be paying ourselves more? we've got a 401k, but we don't really know anything about it. we've got we we want to do investments, but we don't know how to. We're not sure Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: how. Somebody exits a business and how we would ever retire and what that looks like. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: or everything in the business depends on me and you know what happened if I got hit by a bus. You know, we talk about risk management like that too quite a bit. And so often it's one of those things. It's either a question that hasn't been answered that's on their mind, or something has spurred them like a pain point. Sometimes it's that they choked when they got their last tax return and saw how much they had to pay. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Ouch. Let's okay. Yeah, that's the kind of thing we're like, man, I wish I talked to you last year, you know? But expensive mistake. That's okay. Yeah, Melissa Yano: Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Then you plan forward. Gregory Wilnau: you know, you know, it's exactly, exactly. That's okay. I wanna talk a little bit about your style. Okay. your clients do choose you for a reason. and every advisor is is different. So what would you say your style of working or communication with your clients is and what is it about that that they like that you could answer this question purely based off your own guesstimation, but have your clients ever share with you what it is about you that they like and why they choose to to work with you? Is does that question make sense? Melissa Yano: Yes and yes. I think a couple of reasons. One, and you know this, you've worked with me before. I'm a very direct person. So Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Melissa Yano: I try to be as transparent as possible and as clear as possible. Even if sometimes it's I don't think this is the right fit. Like you and I are not the right fit, and you'd be better served, you know, by another advisor, and maybe I make that introduction. I have I am happy to do that always. I also think I try to be once again coming from a background where there was not a lot of money, there was not a lot of financial literacy. I try to make sure that everybody understands. So I spend a fair amount of time with the partner andor spouse that's not in the business or the one that's not the money person. Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: To make sure that their voice is heard, that they understand what's happening, that they Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: are able to ask all the questions they want to without feeling like intimidated or it's a stupid question. so I try yes, yeah, Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. So you keep you keep in the loop. You make sure that they're in the loop. Yeah. Melissa Yano: yeah, and I try to I I mean I I certainly don't believe money is a learned skill. I don't believe that because Gregory Wilnau: Absolutely. Melissa Yano: I'm a CFP, I am better than than someone else, or they should just take what I say as The answer, it's a conversation. And so I try to really keep an open dialogue that way. Gregory Wilnau: What's the value of being direct as in and straightforward in a business environment? As Melissa Yano: I mean, I will say to someone and it my husband cringes every time I do this. Sometimes I say, if you die, there is nothing left here. There would be nothing Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: left here. You would be leaving your whole family and your business and all of your employees on lurch. Or Gregory Wilnau: Mm. Melissa Yano: I might say, You need to plan to pass away by 72. Otherwise there will not be assets left. Gregory Wilnau: Anything. Melissa Yano: which sounds most people do not like to talk about death or insurance or you know, things like that. But the reality is, is that it's gonna happen to all of us. We're all gonna pass away at some point, we're all gonna die. Yeah. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: That's the ultimate question to answer, it seems like to me. Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Yano: And the accidents and the things that take you by surprise are the things that you didn't plan for that you don't expect. And so that's why we talk about things like insurance or you know, who else can manage the business if you're gone. I don't shy away from those topics. Gregory Wilnau: That's good. I think that a business owner, at least for me, because I own a business as well, like beating around the bush to me just feels like such a waste of time. And I just I'll be honest, Melissa Yano: Right. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: dude, I just start to zone out. Just just tell me. Just like what are you trying to tell me? Melissa Yano: We don't need it. Gregory Wilnau: You know, I don't I don't need it. I just so I think there's a lot of value in that. and getting right to the heart of of the matter as quickly as possible. There there's a lot of value there. What I'd like to do for a second is I'd like to understand a little bit more about your process before we close out here. 'cause Melissa Yano: Okay. Gregory Wilnau: it's I think it's important for people to understand like how you work with them. I think business o you know, owning a business is all about trying to create order or in the beginning, you know, it's co it's it's complete chaos, right? And you try to create or some order out of that. So you try to create some process. so what is the process of working with you look like. Maybe you could take a second to think about or or describe when somebody becomes a client today, what does what does onboarding look like? What happens the first couple of weeks? Can you walk us through that? Melissa Yano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think initially what I'm trying to do, like you said, business and some financial pictures can be chaotic or there are a lot of pieces that no one has ever put together. And so what I'm trying to do initially is gather all of the pieces of their puzzle, put them together so that I can see that full picture and then I can also see where we are missing pieces or we have holes. And then like I said, oftentimes they'll come with a specific pain point taxes where I've got cash, I'm not sure how to invest. And so we will put that kind of first on the list to address. But I'm initially trying Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: to get a full financial picture and help them understand what they have. Yeah. And then Gregory Wilnau: And prioritize, yeah. Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: I help them understand cash flow, which is big. where is money coming into your household? And how is it going back out? How is it coming from the business to you personally? Is there any rhyme or reason to that? On how you pay yourself a W-2 wage, on how you distribute funds? I look at the tax return to get a picture of you know where money has gone throughout the past couple of years and what that looks like. And I try to get an understanding of how they've been doing all of the financial things up to now. How do they make decisions? What's important to them? How do they talk about those things? Do they talk about those things? So those are the first. Gregory Wilnau: Mm. How did they think about those things too? It's a big one. Yeah. Melissa Yano: How they think about these things? are they more interested in in tune with their taxes, but not with, you know, insurance or or where are those areas that they they want to talk about first? but I kind of walk through step by step cash flow, taxes, investments, risk management, including all insurance, and then retirement planning. Because we have to have some idea Gregory Wilnau: Nice. Melissa Yano: of where we're trying to go. Gregory Wilnau: Get off the treadmill. Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Yano: before we can yeah. Before we can figure out what to to So Gregory Wilnau: Have you ever have you ever dealt with somebody I'm sure you have it throughout your your experience working with business owners, somebody who's transitioned from selling their business to technically being retired and then like all of a sudden they feel like they've lost themselves, you know? Melissa Yano: Yes, yes. Gregory Wilnau: You say yes very confidently. So it sounds like that might be a a common thing that that comes up. How do you address how do you address that with them? How do you help them prepare for that? 'Cause that's a thing. Melissa Yano: That's a big thing. And most people don't realize it because we talk in our side about, I can't wait till I retire. I'm not gonna have to deal with any of this. I'm not gonna have to get up at six. I don't have to, you know, whatever. Commute, I can do whatever I want to do. The reality is that selling a business is a lengthier process and transaction Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: than most people think it is, even when you're like to the point your business is ready to be sold. You're ready to sell it, everything's lined out. It can take months, a couple of years to actually do that. And the just retiring even from a regular job is a significant transition. And so we talk a lot about that. What are you moving to? There has to be something that you're doing or other things that you really want to do. Otherwise you are going to be bored and Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Be miserable. Be Melissa Yano: Might you might start another business, you might, you know, do Gregory Wilnau: misbly miserable, yeah. Yeah. Melissa Yano: something else or you're gonna drive your spouse or your family nuts. yeah. Yeah, so we talk about that a lot. Is it? Yes. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my father in law right now. He retired recently. He he's driving he's driving my mother in law crazy. But no, I I can relate to that because I'm I'm technically I I'm I'm not retired yet. But my f I my first business, I hired out a a a team to replace me and it this was a couple year process and I I literally I got so burnt out on that business that I I didn't work in the business for nearly a year because I was so burnt out I just couldn't do it. I I had just hired a team, I just put them in place and I was like, you know, either this thing burns down or it works without me because I just can't do it anymore. And it ended up being okay. Like the business was fine, and I came back after about a year, but I technically retired for a year while my business more than covered my expenses. And that was really, really cool. but it was also incredibly boring. It w it got bo really Melissa Yano: Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: boring really fast. I think that especially an entrepreneurial person needs something to work on, right? We need to feel useful. We need to Melissa Yano: Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: wake waking up every day and going to the beach and eating bonbons is fine for the first week or two, but after that it gets kind of boring. So having your sights set on something else, I think, is is really important. any thoughts on that? Melissa Yano: I mean, I think like you said, for most people, it's a big part of your identity. Like you said, you're you have a purpose, you have things you're constantly working toward and thinking about when you own a business. But for a lot of people it helps if they can transition out a little s more slowly. So I mean kudos to you for being able to run a business with an outside team and not having to be involved and it's still running like clockwork. But a lot of people will start to back out, and and lower what their role is, like they'll They'll let go of some things Gregory Wilnau: Mm-hmm. Melissa Yano: that they've been responsible for. Maybe they won't be there as often and they'll start doing Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Yano: it a little more gradually so that they're used to it. They've figured out kind of how to fill their days and what they're doing. The business itself is used to it. And if they're actually selling the business to an outside party, I mean it makes it easier too to to transition out so that the business is not dependent on you. If they're selling internally, then your management team has already been doing these things. And so then you can have a more gradual transition. And maybe only work on the things right before you leave, you're only working on the things you really like to do, only working on the clients that you really like to. Yeah. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah, the w what you want to do. Yeah. I think that's a bet much better way to go about it than what I did. I definitely don't recommend my method. Yours is much better. It was it is real. It was real. Melissa Yano: Burnout is real. Burnout is real. So it's tough. Gregory Wilnau: Yeah. All right, Melissa. Well, thank you so much for coming on and shares and sharing with us a little bit about your process, how you think and what you do. I really enjoyed it. for someone listening who's interested in getting in touch with you, what should they do next? Where where should they go? Melissa Yano: if you go to our website, which is capitalwealthplanner dot com, there's a link there and you can just see a little bit more about what we do, the kind of things that we do for business owners, and click the link to just schedule time for an initial chat, and I'm happy to have a chat with anybody. Gregory Wilnau: Awesome. Well thank you so much for less Melissa. Really appreciated you coming on. Melissa Yano: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks, great.