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Talking With Red-Pill Aware Trad Con Lasta About What We Might Have Wrong | Fireside Chat 242 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Hello everyone, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian and
• 0:05
  I am here with Alison and this is the fireside Chat. I am joined
• 0:11
  by Well, I don't I should have asked you how to pronounce it lasta?
• 0:16
  Is it lasta losta? Yep? Okay loasta, yes, and let
• 0:22
  me just make sure, let me know if the sound is okay, guys,
• 0:25
  I think we're good. I did check it before I started, so
• 0:30
  losta. Welcome to the fireside Chat. How are you doing? Oh great,
• 0:35
  thank you all for having me. No problem, Yeah, not a
• 0:39
  problem. So I guess I wanted to talk a little bit about well,
• 0:46
  I guess you and Alison had a little bit of a back and forth on
• 0:49
  Twitter, and that's why I brought her on here because so, well,
• 0:53
  I don't know everything else and gets to up to on Twitter because I'm doing
• 0:57
  my own thing, so and I don't really look at what she posts.
• 1:02
  And plus, even though we're all on the same team, we don't always
• 1:07
  share the same perspectives. So yeah, I know it's crazy, right,
• 1:12
  It's like it's wild about that. Can't you control what other people think or
• 1:18
  something? Well, you know, the the problem is the distance you know,
• 1:23
  my arm just doesn't reach far enough to strike. Yeah. So anyway,
• 1:34
  so you, I guess you are. You describe yourself as a kind
• 1:38
  of red pillarware trad con right, and I wanted to ask before we get
• 1:44
  into the meat of this thing, what does that mean to you? M
• 1:49
  Yeah, sure, I mean, well, I mean it means I'm a
• 1:53
  Christian, and I'm I'm a husband, and I've got Emily, a bunch
• 2:00
  of a bunch of boys, and yeah, and I'm committed to my committed
• 2:06
  to my wife, and committed to my faith. So that that makes me
• 2:09
  a pretty traditional conservative. I guess at this point I'm not. And then,
• 2:16
  uh, as far as being red pillarware, gosh, how do I
• 2:21
  sorry? I need to figure out how to start this story. I I
• 2:24
  mean, the biggest thing that happened with me about gosh, I want to
• 2:30
  say seven years ago now, it kind of hit it a bit of a
• 2:34
  marital rock bottom. And in getting out of that, I I got some
• 2:40
  coaching from a man online named Mark Kueppett. And at the time it was
• 2:46
  around quitting porn and I did that and then but it was through a very
• 2:52
  like really sort of a masculine toolkit being used to do that and it sort
• 2:58
  of opened a whole a door for me. And I really like at this
• 3:02
  point it's almost like before and after that, it's like it's like just has
• 3:07
  had a huge change in my life. And so it was that process of
• 3:14
  quitting porn, of getting of kind of becoming a man as far as owning
• 3:19
  my life, owning sexuality in my marriage, owning you know, the way
• 3:23
  I show up in every aspect of life that you know. I started interacting
• 3:30
  with a lot of the red Pill stuff. My coach was sort of conversant
• 3:32
  with it and found that a lot of the ways that you know, I
• 3:38
  had, I had been raised kind of in the church, even though they
• 3:42
  gave like lip service as conservatives to you know, male leadership in the home
• 3:46
  or something. Uh, they really didn't teach you how to do it at
• 3:51
  all. They just you know said, don't abuse it, right, like
• 3:54
  you're in charge, don't abuse it? Uh, And what that even meant?
• 3:59
  And when you kind of probed about it, they say, well,
• 4:00
  be really nice and so yeah, no, it doesn't seem to And then
• 4:12
  like the sort of transition that I had, you know, getting my marriage
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  to a point, I mean it wasn't was it technically a dead bedroom.
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  It was. It was dead as far as you know, passion and real
• 4:24
  attraction and getting that to a point where it's just absolutely thriving. I'm pretty
• 4:30
  evangelical about all that. I'm as far as like the changes, the changes
• 4:35
  that a man can do if he's in a certain mode and he really takes
• 4:40
  ownership. So you know, I've lived that. I've started. The guy
• 4:45
  who coached me Mark, I've been for several years now coaching other guys,
• 4:50
  had a lot of success, and then I created this course called Reforged Marriage
• 4:54
  because his stuff was on witting born but and then just sort of general masculine
• 4:59
  development. And then I was applying that to Okay, how do you if
• 5:02
  you if you have a dead bedroom, what do you do about it?
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  And it's been very gratifying seeing a lot of guys, a lot of men,
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  turn things around when it looked like there was no hope. So the
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  sort of thing people who coach people online say, I suppose, but it's
• 5:20
  it's amazing to live it. It's amazing to see the stories and you know,
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  hear people talk about their horrible situations and then you almost get giddy.
• 5:29
  Because you can see the path of transformation that's going to happen. So that's
• 5:34
  kind of what I've been doing. And yes, pretty amazing the sort of
• 5:41
  social media landscape we have today that just anyone can can reach other people with
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  what they've learned, and people can find each other. So you know,
• 5:50
  that's the positive of it. Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it.
• 5:55
  Yeah, might as well look at the on the bright side of things.
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  Go ahead, Brian, if you had anything, tell me a little
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  bit more about this masculinity toolkit. Hmm, sure, sure, I mean
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  I think, gosh, how to summarize it all? I think you know,
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  I had gone to like counselors in the past, I had, I
• 6:21
  had, and really none of it really resonated with me. I mean that's
• 6:28
  maybe that's maybe that's overly harsh, but you know, if I if I
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  were to say, there was a lot of a lot of questions and a
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  lot of listening and very very careful, you know, oblique suggestions, and
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  then when I met with Mark, it was just this no nonsense problem solving.
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  It was just like okay, uh, what do you want? What
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  are you what are you going for? And you know, what do you,
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  what do you want to have happen? Okay, what's in the way?
• 6:57
  Okay, what sort of mindset are you having around this? You know,
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  what would be a more powerful mindset for you to have that kind of
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  thing where it's just a problem solving but kind of you know, also unlocking
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  a lot of your primal passions. That's a lot of the guys who are
• 7:14
  trying to quit porn, you've got a lot of that bottled up and siphoned
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  off on that. Whereas you know, you've basically got a lot of masculine
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  vitality, a lot of go get them energy just in you there for the
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  taking that you're squandered. And so to be able to actually start listening to
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  those desires and passions and redirect them around all aspects of your life gives you
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  some real fire. And so you know, it's that's a really powerful thing
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  to get guys to do, because I mean, one of an example I'll
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  give you, like when when a guy is trying to quit porn, he'll
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  he'll say, you know, especially if he's had a relapse, he'll say
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  something like, oh man, I relapse And I was like, all right,
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  well tell me, can you resurrect your mindset at that moment and give
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  me the strongest proporn argument why this was the best thing for you to do,
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  and do it with passion. In fact, make me lose my five
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  year streak just listening to you because it's just so compelling and powerful, and
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  they're shocked. It's like, wait a second, this is the opposite direction.
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  You shouldn't be arguing this way. You should be arguing the other way.
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  But the idea is you want to actually capture that fire. You don't
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  want to fight it. You want to hear this thing that you've been stuffing
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  down, repressing, let it out, and then direct it in a new
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  way. And I think that's that's in a microcosm, that's a lot of
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  what masculinity is. It's being able to take our you know, our powerful
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  drives and passions and point them, give them somewhere to go. Uh Okay,
• 8:56
  So you were talking a lot about porn addiction, and I think that
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  is a real issue that people face, but it is kind of like just
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  one small thing, like a small facet of I think a broader problem.
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  I guess it depends on whether or not it's a chicken or egg thing.
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  But I would ask, then next, what is it that you think that
• 9:24
  we do, or at least what Alison does? Since you're responding to her,
• 9:28
  that is that you what is it that you think she's doing? And
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  what you think is like, you know, could use some work or or
• 9:37
  it is wrong or whatever. Well, I was mostly joking about that.
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  I don't I don't know y'all well enough to to presume to critique anything y'all
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  do. I was I was just operating from the knowing that you guys came
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  from like a men's rights perspective, and just saying, you know, that's
• 9:58
  probably not my foot focus. Certainly, the place where I put all of
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  my faith is more on individuals, you know, taking charge and ownership of
• 10:09
  their lives, rather than me having any illusions about any public policy is changing
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  anytime soon. So that's that's just where I'm coming from. But that's not
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  to say that I'm like I want to like stop anybody from changing public policy
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  more, you know, more power to you. Okay, Okay, all
• 10:33
  right, go ahead, Alison, say what you're gonna say. I figured
• 10:35
  as much like I honestly I don't know if I don't know if we can
• 10:41
  well you know, maybe that we'll find some conflict, but I don't see
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  how it's necessarily that it has to be either or Honestly, I mean,
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  obviously your focus is on improving men's already existing relationships. If I'm not misunderstanding
• 10:56
  where you're coming from, please tell me if I am. And our focus
• 11:00
  is on getting men the tools, like the personal tools to overcome the ubiquitous
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  feminist narrative, and also helping organizations who are focused on changing aspects either legally
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  or the social services, so changing the legal situation for men and social services
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  for men who find themselves in difficulties. So, for example, we have
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  brought attention to initiatives to try to bring about shared customy in Canada and the
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  US. We often talk with a man in Canada. His name is Justin
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  Trattier. He runs a nonprofit or actually I think it's a charity now it
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  was called the Canadian Association for Equality but now it's called the Canadian Men and
• 11:54
  Families Canadian Center for Men and Families. And he's very very successful in creating
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  services for men across Canada, and he's actually established need for the things that
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  he does. Now his approach is to help men when they're dealing with family
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  breakdown, when they're dealing with situations of abuse, when they're dealing with homelessness.
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  Although he has also has outreach for youth, male youth who are at
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  risk of becoming criminal, so I'm sure that he has some of this kind
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  of focus on encouraging healthy masculinity or positive masculinity as well. So we talk
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  to people like that, we try to encourage people to support those individuals,
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  And I mean, he has really done an amazing job in just persevering,
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  persevering an incredibly hostile climate. We did a podcast recently where he described how
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  he he's literally being closed out of government kind of revenue because of the feminist
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  gatekeepers who even though he he's proven need and he's proven that his interventions work,
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  he's being frozen out. But what he's done, and I think we're
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  part of that as well, is he's gotten together a large group of men
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  and also women who want to support this, who are interested in helping other
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  men overcome the issues that they face in this situation. So this isn't something
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  like men are asking for handouts. They're literally coming together and helping each other
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  in these circumstances like that. That's what we've seen, and it's great to
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  see, and that's the kind of stuff that we do. We're trying to
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  get men to realize that it's important to help each other, it's important to
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  help yourself, and it's important to put yourself first, because if you are
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  going to be the center of your family or are going to be one carrying
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  things, then you need to take care of yourself. And another focus that
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  we've had is to just combat this kind of toxic attitude that our society has
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  around masculinity. Now, I'm not Christian and I don't have any prison descriptive
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  attitude to how people should structure their relationships. So if you know men want
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  you know, if you want to have a relationship where men in charge,
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  I don't. I don't say how you should structure your relationship, but I
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  will observe this Christian sorry, feminism one hundred percent delegitimates and renders immoral male
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  authority in the family and in the community. Like that is their central argument
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  is that male authority equals female oppression. And I mean we've argued consistently.
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  You've probably seen that from my Twitter that you know this is not the case,
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  like male authority does not necessarily equal female oppression. And in fact,
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  you can't say that that if if X, then y, you can't say
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  that. You have to prove that right. And the way that you prove
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  it is you have to look at the situation of men under male authority,
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  and you have to look at the situation for women under male authority. And
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  throughout history we see that despite men being in charge or even in charge of
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  women, the situation for men is worse. They're the ones taking the you
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  know, doing the violence sacrifices. They're the ones starving or dying and infrastructure
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  projects to feed their families. You know, they're the ones who are most
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  likely to not survive and least likely to reproduce. So it's like this,
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  it doesn't follow. And that's one of the primary arguments that we make,
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  and it's an essential argument to start bringing back the idea that male authority is
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  not a terrible thing. And again, I'm not prescriptive. I don't I'm
• 15:37
  not tending to tell people how they should arrange their relationships. I'm merely about
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  logic and rationality and what we can honestly say. And I think that's that's
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  a that would be I think something we could definitely engage in unpack, because
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  I mean that's sort of where our conversations started, and it's been a fascinating
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  part of I guess my my journey on the the X platform. Whereas I've
• 16:03
  been surprised in talking about just what you're saying about male like leadership in the
• 16:10
  home and kind of my I think very positive vision of that. And I've
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  been surprised at how receptive a lot of women have been, which which is
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  not what I expected, not what I'm used to. I've gotten a little
• 16:27
  better at communicating it, but I've been surprised at I generally considered, you
• 16:33
  know, before, I think feminism to be like my my sort of polar
• 16:37
  opposite arche nemesis whatever with what I was doing. And now I found that,
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  like a lot of feminists, if you if you sidestep the immediate rhetoric
• 16:49
  where you're just at loggerheads and dig into okay, why do you think this
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  way? What are you? What are you reacting to? There's some pretty
• 16:59
  hair growing stories that people have, and yeah, I've just been found I
• 17:04
  found it really interesting how people I would have assumed are not reachable, were
• 17:11
  more reachable than I thought. So, M well, in my case,
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  I'm not necessarily focused on the feminists so much as the young men and you
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  know, the men who are who were dealing with the emotional fallout of these
• 17:29
  attitudes towards men, right, And so that's the most harm I think,
• 17:36
  yeah, just to I mean, because like one of the things we're not
• 17:40
  just dealing with like masculine authority and the condemnation of it, but also like
• 17:45
  this is internalizing, Like young men are internalizing this stuff and they are encouraged
• 17:52
  to be at war with their masculinity and to see it as a source of
• 17:59
  the negative part of themselves. I guess, you know. And I mean
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  that's another thing that we talk about and we try to deal with is just
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  to say, no, this, this, this entire construct is not it's
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  not it's not actually supported. First of all, it's not scientifically supported.
• 18:15
  So honestly, feminism shouldn't have ever been presented as something that was a legitimate
• 18:21
  reflection of reality because there's nothing scientific about it, and so you don't it's
• 18:27
  it's just not it's not accurate. It's not accurate to men's nature. In
• 18:30
  fact, the best way to look at feminism, in my opinion, is
• 18:33
  to look at it as a means to manipulate men. So a lot of
• 18:38
  the time, I don't even think that the women who espouse this feminist stuff
• 18:44
  even really believe it, because if they did, they wouldn't immediately be appealing
• 18:49
  to men to try to save them from the thing that they say that men
• 18:53
  are doing to them. You know, right now, it just wouldn't make
• 18:59
  sense. It's like you're you're saying that men don't care about you, and
• 19:02
  then the next breath you're you're telling men they need to prove that they care
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  about you, And that makes more sense as a tool of emotional manipulation of
• 19:08
  men as than a logical reflection of reality. So that, I mean,
• 19:15
  that's sort of where we're coming from. We're trying to work with with young
• 19:18
  men who have these difficult relationships with mostly themselves and help them overcome this anger
• 19:26
  towards well, you know, or this this condemnation of an important part of
• 19:32
  themselves. Well that's something I guess. I mean, most of what you're
• 19:36
  saying I can just get completely behind, Like there's there's nothing I don't want
• 19:41
  any young man out there to think that like that that fire he has in
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  him, the sorts of the drives, the the strength and everything is something
• 19:52
  he needs to squelch, is something toxic, is something other than what the
• 19:57
  world desperately needs from him. So, you know, and I think it's
• 20:07
  just been very interesting for me to see that a lot of I mean,
• 20:12
  feminism can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. Right,
• 20:15
  there's different waves and then there're just things where people would call it feminists,
• 20:21
  but people who espouse of you wouldn't necessarily call themselves feminists. But the
• 20:29
  one of the equips that I that I like to say is that feminism is
• 20:34
  a ship test that men need to pass rather than an enemy they need to
• 20:38
  destroy. And I and I think that really holds true when you're in converse,
• 20:45
  when the men are in conversations with women that rather than feel like they
• 20:51
  have to beat down this viewpoint that they're being faced with, but they need
• 20:56
  to they need to be relaxed and not threatened by it, and to keep
• 21:00
  good humor with the other person and see, Okay, what's going on beneath,
• 21:04
  what are you really reacting to? What are you really driving at?
• 21:08
  I think one of the things that really opened my eyes to this was a
• 21:12
  tweet by a lady named Laura Robinson, and she's just talking about it in
• 21:19
  terms of like the Christian gender debates, but she basically was explaining why women
• 21:27
  in these debates a lot of times will just deny the most basic sexual differences.
• 21:33
  They'll just no, there's no difference, there's no difference, like basically
• 21:36
  say there's no difference between men and women, which is crazy, but they'll
• 21:40
  but they'll kind of say it. And I'm just wondering why I'm being gasolt
• 21:44
  this bad in this debate, And she says that basically, they're worried that
• 21:51
  the logic chain is eventually going to get to them being screwed. So there's
• 21:56
  a defensive posture in the whole debate, and they're trying to like, you
• 21:59
  know, headed off at the past. We're not going to give an inch,
• 22:03
  so we're not and why if you don't mind me asking why the defensive
• 22:07
  posture from the get go. In her case, it was a lot of
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  these Well, so in the context of the church, there's a lot of
• 22:19
  these ideas of Okay, we're not being allowed to be pastors, we're not
• 22:22
  being allowed to be this and we feel like, you know, we're not
• 22:27
  being able to use our gifts in this context, and and you know there's
• 22:33
  some there's some reasons for that why the church is. Do you think that
• 22:37
  it's legitimate that that that women should be pastors and there's something unfair or wrong
• 22:45
  with the fact that in the church pastors were always men, Like there's some
• 22:52
  kind of like kudos or something that comes out of it instead of like what
• 22:55
  it really is, which is essentially a sacrifice. Yeah, I think I
• 23:02
  think it probably depends. I mean, I think there are probably cases where
• 23:08
  you here's what I'll say, as I've looked into this, I think there
• 23:14
  are a lot of cases in churches, like more fundamentalist churches, where over
• 23:19
  time post sexual revolution, the masculine leadership has gotten more and more insipid,
• 23:26
  and they're leaning on just kind of the gatekeeping to be yeah, to be
• 23:33
  a shield for a bunch of really weak, kind of worthless men who shouldn't
• 23:37
  be in leadership anyway. And in that context, I can totally understand why
• 23:42
  these women are like, this is really bad and we're not being heard and
• 23:48
  what if you don't mind me asking what denomination, are you. I'm an
• 23:52
  Anglican, okay, and in my in my my diocese, there isn't women's
• 24:02
  ordination to the priesthood, though in parts of the Anglican Communion there is.
• 24:06
  Yeah, Anglican is pretty it's close to Catholicism, and and yeah, sort
• 24:14
  of half sort of a halfway point between Protestantism and Catholicism. So I want
• 24:19
  to say the best of both worlds, but that's up for debate. Yeah,
• 24:22
  sure, sure, sure, well, I asked, because you know,
• 24:26
  it sounds I'm sure that there are men that are in like maybe you
• 24:30
  know, like in positions of pastor that maybe don't deserve to be there.
• 24:33
  But I think that at the end of the day, it has to be
• 24:37
  a meritocracy. And I think that what I what I'm hearing because this is
• 24:41
  happening in my church. So in case you guys don't know, I have
• 24:45
  converted to Eastern Orthodoxy in January sixth I was charismated. I was attending for
• 24:53
  about a year beforehand, and there was talk about, you know, female
• 24:59
  deacons like in in Eastern Orthodox which is probably one of the most hardcore like
• 25:06
  churches like ever, you know, there are there are no women in the
• 25:10
  priesthood, like you know, the nuns or and they they they are special
• 25:14
  positions, but they're not you know, up there doing like the bit the
• 25:18
  I'm sorry the bishops and the archbishops and and all that, right, but
• 25:22
  like, no one's bothered by this. No one thinks that, you know,
• 25:26
  somehow women are losing out. It just seems like the I think that
• 25:30
  to some degree the concern, and I don't I'm not going to speak for
• 25:36
  your your experience there, because maybe you're right, maybe those guys you know,
• 25:40
  are are not like the kind of metal that should be in the priesthood.
• 25:45
  But it still comes back to meritocracy. It's like, you know,
• 25:51
  when let's like put it in a different context, so people have like a
• 25:53
  better idea. Uh, in the military, you have, you know,
• 25:57
  there's this big debate about whether or not women should be drafted, and it's
• 26:02
  this big conversation, right, And of course there are people that are even
• 26:06
  a part of the you know, on our side, like the red pill
• 26:08
  side, that will say, yeah, sure, you know, it's equality,
• 26:11
  and then there are people like me that are like, well, no,
• 26:15
  that there should be something else because you know, women in a military
• 26:22
  unit will change the dynamic of the of the unit period. But on top
• 26:26
  of that, like, we shouldn't just be giving them positions if they don't
• 26:30
  qualify in the same way that we don't give to men. If there are
• 26:33
  men who can't pass the physical then they don't get into the military, right,
• 26:37
  I mean, so we're not we should be just treating it like that,
• 26:41
  like you know, full stop. But at the same time, there
• 26:45
  shouldn't be, I guess, like a political struggle about whether whether or not
• 26:52
  women are seen in like prominent positions of high status, because that seems to
• 26:56
  be what it always comes back to. It has nothing to do with,
• 27:00
  you know, what the responsibilities are of that position, or what the expectations
• 27:06
  are or the obligations or the sacrifices. But rather it's just like, oh,
• 27:10
  look at me. I work at Google and I make six figures.
• 27:14
  You know, I have a high status job in a cubicle, working for
• 27:18
  you know, a widget factory or something. And it's not really like about
• 27:22
  what I'm doing, you know, like that that that whether or not it
• 27:25
  matters, you know, and that and that's why And I don't even like
• 27:29
  to say feminists because I think when I say feminists, people get they think
• 27:33
  I'm talking about something very specific. I think that what we're looking at is
• 27:37
  not simply a group of academics that like red bell hooks and the glorious dynam
• 27:41
  and shit. I think, and I apologie for the language. It's it's
• 27:47
  the the There is a set of presupposed assumptions about reality that almost everyone holds,
• 27:55
  and they come from that place that kind of us say secular, hue
• 28:00
  humanist, postmodern worldview, and feminism is a part of that. But it
• 28:06
  is like from that, does that make sense? Yeah? No, absolutely,
• 28:11
  Yeah, So I guess I don't know if I like said what I
• 28:17
  meant to say about this, But my I'm i'm as far as like as
• 28:21
  far as like giving men tools, like I'm all for it, like no
• 28:23
  problem. You know, I'm I'm married and I love my wife to death.
• 28:29
  You know, I think she saved my life last year, and I'm
• 28:33
  and I hope that men find that. And I think, honestly, when
• 28:36
  it comes to your experience, when you were telling me about how you are
• 28:38
  a husband and you have kids and all that, this is not a I
• 28:41
  don't think this is a conservative thing. I know people say that, but
• 28:45
  I think most men, like probably the overwhelming majority of men want that.
• 28:49
  They just they grow up and they just want to meet a girl, fall
• 28:53
  in love, get married, have kids, and like support their family.
• 28:56
  They're they're not looking to be billionaires. They're not looking to be Elon Musk.
• 29:00
  They're not looking for you know, all the like. They're not.
• 29:03
  They're just they just want to live normal lives. And then what happens is
• 29:07
  some of them run into problems. Some of these problems come from you know,
• 29:12
  what you were saying, like maybe they don't have the appropriate tools to
• 29:15
  like, you know, make the most of what they are. I think
• 29:18
  that a lot of it is downstream from other problems, like the fatherlessness.
• 29:23
  You know, we have a lot more kids born without fathers, and I
• 29:27
  think that that means that they don't know it's not just that you don't have
• 29:30
  your father, it's that you don't have your you don't know where you come
• 29:34
  from, you have no line, you're just you know, it used to
• 29:38
  be like a terrible tragedy to learn that someone was a bastard because they didn't
• 29:44
  know who their father was, and by extension, they didn't know their father's
• 29:48
  father, and so on right. So you have a lot of boys and
• 29:52
  girls growing up without fathers, and it's not because the men are not stepping
• 29:56
  up in every case. I think a lot of times women are incentivized to
• 30:02
  exclude men or they benefit from it, like in some other way, either
• 30:07
  through child support or the government, the welfare state, et cetera. And
• 30:11
  so you have kids growing up, they're handicapped, they don't know who their
• 30:14
  dad is. The girls are more likely to get pregnant earlier and repeat the
• 30:18
  cycle all over again. The boys are more likely to you know, get
• 30:22
  addicted to drugs, get involved with crime, join gangs and all this.
• 30:26
  And then we look at this mess and no one is saying what has to
• 30:30
  be said. They want to say everything else. And this is why I
• 30:33
  think that on the one hand, boys do need they need tools, They
• 30:37
  need mentorship from other men. They need to be able to form you know,
• 30:40
  communities with men. They need to form brotherhoods with men. I've talked
• 30:42
  about this on my Twitter as well. And it needs to transcend all of
• 30:48
  these other like group sort of groupings that people put out there, you know,
• 30:52
  being black or Latino or whatever, like, all that has to go.
• 30:56
  It's got to be. You know, when I was a kid,
• 30:57
  Puerto Rican kid growing up in michicant I was in a boys club and all
• 31:02
  the boys were different. No nobody even thought about it. We just did
• 31:06
  shit together. Again, sorry for the language, I apologize. I'm still
• 31:10
  like, okay, okay, as long as it doesn't bother you too much.
• 31:15
  But I think that on the on the micro level, all of those
• 31:21
  things are useful, but there are obstacles. But on the macro level,
• 31:23
  there has to be some legal changes. I mean, the government actively works
• 31:29
  against men like in in in all, and that's the thing that we ultimately
• 31:33
  would like to see addressed, because I don't know that any degree of like
• 31:40
  manning up or you know, or whatever, is going to stop a man
• 31:44
  from losing half of his stuff and his kids. Like I mean, even
• 31:48
  if he's really good at picking out a good woman, I want to give
• 31:51
  them every chance in the world to do that at their at the bottom level.
• 31:55
  But that has to be changed. Like that's the main reason why I'm
• 31:57
  doing this show because I care about fathers. I think that they're very They're
• 32:01
  absolutely crucial. I'm glad that you're involved with your kids, and I think
• 32:06
  most men who end up like becoming MRAs are involved with the red pill.
• 32:09
  They started off like you and then they got screwed over and now they're like,
• 32:14
  this has to change. And sometimes they're doing it for their own kids,
• 32:17
  you know, because they don't want their sons to go through what they
• 32:20
  went through or whatever. So this is why we do what we do.
• 32:22
  And I think that it is it is more than like, you know,
• 32:29
  than just like what can the man do on at the bottom level, if
• 32:31
  that makes sense. Yeah, I know that, and I appreciate that.
• 32:37
  I I don't I don't want to like say I'm I'm opposed to that at
• 32:40
  all. I just I have I have very little well I have. I
• 32:47
  have less cynicism about what I'm seeing happen in individual lives than I do about
• 32:53
  general cultural trends, particularly political. I don't see. I don't see the
• 33:00
  political direction things are going as a source of a lot of hope right now.
• 33:06
  And I not to say it's not worth fighting, you know, but
• 33:10
  I also I want to folks, I'm more energized at focusing my energy where
• 33:16
  I'm seeing real ground gained, I guess, but but that's not Yeah,
• 33:22
  I mean, we all have our different callings. Yeah, Well, what
• 33:24
  I would say is that, I mean we're in a position where we are
• 33:31
  presenting something like, okay, our society is failing along a particular access and
• 33:40
  more and more people are recognizing the fact that this can't continue, and the
• 33:46
  solution is to blame men. And I don't mean give men the tools to
• 33:51
  make their lives better. I mean blame them, right, we're not stepping
• 33:57
  up. And there's a big difference because when you give, when you say,
• 34:00
  okay, this isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility because you
• 34:06
  know I do this sometimes. You know, you know your parents, what
• 34:07
  your parents did to you not your fault, but now it's your responsibility,
• 34:13
  right, And you just can't get around that. That's different than it's you
• 34:17
  are to blame. And then that's just how we forget about the problem.
• 34:22
  It's like somehow we think, oh, this is how men are to blame
• 34:25
  for that, and then we don't have to deal with it, and it
• 34:28
  did. The problem just disappears, and it doesn't You're just you're just escape
• 34:31
  for the hate. Yeah no, and that doesn't do any That doesn't do
• 34:36
  a single person any good, doesn't do the hated or the hater any good
• 34:38
  just it's just bad. Yeah, And that's the dynamic I think our culture
• 34:45
  has gotten into and eventually that won't work anymore. I think that we're getting
• 34:50
  to the point where that's not working anymore. We're starting to see more of
• 34:52
  our infrastructure failing. We're starting to see our productivity failing, like economic.
• 35:00
  Our population is collapsing. Yeah, we're starting to see that. And I
• 35:04
  think you said population is collapsing. Yeah, yeah, the population is not.
• 35:09
  And it's not just in America, it's like all over the world.
• 35:13
  Yeahs like there's some technological like it seems like a response to technology, like
• 35:21
  almost a negative aspect of the way our prosperity is worked somehow. Yeah,
• 35:27
  I mean, it really is like a we've managed to make ourselves miserable in
• 35:31
  paradise, honestly. And my overall point is that this this this coping strategy
• 35:40
  that we have of blaming men and ignoring our problems by thinking that by blaming
• 35:45
  men we've solved them, which has worked in the past. You know,
• 35:47
  men would come together and fix the problem. Now it's not working because we've
• 35:52
  broken down the process of men coming together and fixing the problem. Itself.
• 35:58
  So we just keep doing this and doing this, and at some point that's
• 36:00
  going to break the system and somebody has to be there to say there's another
• 36:07
  way. Yeah, I think you know, and that's what I want to
• 36:10
  do. You know, as far as equipping men is like, yeah,
• 36:15
  if if you're given the actual tools to do something, there's blame can be
• 36:20
  okay, as long as you know you're you've got the tools to do something
• 36:24
  about it. There's you blame someone that you implicitly think at some level is
• 36:30
  or should be in charge. Right, there's there's a backhanded compliment to blame.
• 36:37
  But but that's the problem is and I see like a lot of one
• 36:43
  of the things I do say to a lot of men who are in like
• 36:45
  dead bedroom situations is that the ball is more in your court than you realize,
• 36:51
  probably almost overwhelmingly. And there's a lot of resistance to that at first
• 36:57
  because it's like, oh, you're just trying to put the blame on men,
• 36:59
  and like, no, man, I'm I'm not every It is not
• 37:02
  on you as far as you didn't know any better, you weren't taught.
• 37:07
  But what you should see this as good news because there's power in your hands
• 37:12
  that you didn't know. You're not a victim here. You can actually do
• 37:15
  something to change your situation and it can be great. And there's it's a
• 37:20
  it's a hopeful message. You may be getting a lot of blame from your
• 37:24
  wife, but if you choose in yourself to interpret it more as a backhanded
• 37:30
  compliment where she's kind of implicit in the blame, she's sort of rooting for
• 37:34
  you to change it, even though it's coming out negative. You translate that
• 37:38
  message in your head as positive and you you take you seize it with both
• 37:44
  hands. And I'm I mean, that's that's the thing, like I made.
• 37:50
  I made this course Reforged Marriage, about guys trying to turn their their
• 37:53
  bedrooms and by extension, their whole marriage is around because I didn't see anything
• 37:59
  good enough. I didn't see anything that I could just recommend that walked people
• 38:05
  through the journey I had. So I'm really keen. I'm giving giving men
• 38:09
  these tools and I and I'm pretty optimistic, like if we could scale this,
• 38:15
  if we could scale this so that men just had these tools and what
• 38:17
  they used to get kind of implicitly through dads in the community. Since we
• 38:23
  know we can't rely on that anymore. Let's use the power of you know,
• 38:29
  the modern world to get it in people's hands. And and I think
• 38:34
  we might be surprised at how much how much change we could have if if
• 38:39
  we really had men come alive. M Yeah, well, like we said,
• 38:45
  I think in the beginning, there's different approaches to how to deal with
• 38:49
  this and for us, like like I said, for me, what I
• 38:53
  want to do is give men and women, because this is this hasn't a
• 39:00
  fact on women too, the tools to deconstruct this stuff. And the men
• 39:06
  and women who tend to be more interested in what we have to say,
• 39:08
  tend to be more on the more on the thinking side I want. I
• 39:15
  don't want to use the word intellectual because it's got some baggage, but they
• 39:19
  like to think about things. So when you give them the ability to take
• 39:25
  something that's an emotional dynamic and break it down into elements that they can attached
• 39:32
  to on a logical level, then they can start to be able to approach
• 39:38
  these situations which had made no sense to them before, in a way that
• 39:44
  allows them to not personalize it and also get an outcome that's more positive for
• 39:50
  themselves, but also deconstructed even if they can't necessarily fight back, deconstructed in
• 39:54
  their minds, so they don't internalize it. So, for example, like
• 39:58
  something that I've done is the Threat Narrative series, where I just broke down
• 40:02
  how women develop narratives of threat around people, events, whatever, what have
• 40:09
  you, and how they they sort of they develop this and then they target
• 40:15
  people with them, and how to just break it down, even if you're
• 40:17
  not directly confronting the person, break it down in your own mind so it
• 40:22
  doesn't sway you, and you start to you start to be able to look
• 40:25
  at this situation in a more rational way. And when you're dealing with a
• 40:29
  woman who's behaving in this way, you can break it down rationally and then
• 40:34
  have a way to move forward with the behavior and you're not internalizing it and
• 40:38
  potentially either neutralize it or you know, turn it to your benefit, I
• 40:44
  suppose if you're really machiavellian. But you know, that's the kind of thing
• 40:47
  that I like, just taking these kind of social dynamics that may be obtuse
• 40:52
  to people and breaking them down intellectually so that they have the tools to overcome
• 41:00
  the situations that they find themselves in. And I think that maybe somewhat like
• 41:05
  what you're doing, except I think that you approach it more in uh maybe
• 41:09
  in a like on a a level of like interpersonal resonance. Maybe maybe I'm
• 41:19
  using too many Well, the interesting thing, I mean, the interesting thing
• 41:22
  about turning up, you know, so focusing on dead bedrooms, you know,
• 41:25
  I first started talking about porn, and I remember Brian initially responded as
• 41:30
  like, well, that's that's a small issue. I mean meaning small meaning
• 41:35
  there are many many other aspects of things. Well, I think that men
• 41:37
  are going to porn because I don't think it's where they go first. I
• 41:42
  think it's because they're not They don't have the tools to talk to women,
• 41:49
  and so there they find porn is a much easier It's like an easy it's
• 41:53
  easy access and it never says no, you know, so, or they
• 41:58
  don't feel rejected by it. I think that they wouldn't. Like a lot
• 42:01
  of people think that it's a good substitute for real flesh and blood human being.
• 42:06
  But I think that most guys know that that's not true, and that
• 42:09
  it is it is something that they are indeed to some degree ashamed of.
• 42:14
  Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it alone in the dark. But I don't.
• 42:19
  What I'm saying is I think it's a symptom, a symptom of a kind
• 42:23
  of self loathing that comes from your disconnection from other people. So I think
• 42:30
  that just telling them to stop it, it's I don't think that's going to
• 42:34
  work. No, it does. But because I don't think that's the issue,
• 42:37
  and that was that was a fascinating thing with me, you know,
• 42:39
  because I was I had a porn addiction for twenty five years, so pretty
• 42:45
  pretty long time, and I was in the church throughout. And yet just
• 42:49
  stop it or pray hard, or you know, read the Bible, or
• 42:52
  you know, get realize you're forgiven, whatever, realize you can be better.
• 42:57
  All those sorts of things didn't ultimately work. And what I needed was
• 43:04
  to realize that, like and to be given the tools that the solution to
• 43:09
  this problem wasn't the absence of porn, but the presence of like mature manhood
• 43:15
  and you basically how to integrate and direct your own sexual power through in like
• 43:23
  yes, like in what lived life and just like going after things. No
• 43:29
  I understand, Yeah, I get that. So it becomes kind of a
• 43:32
  right of passage in so far as porn addiction or porn use is ubiquitous young
• 43:39
  of young men. One of the things that me and my coach Mark say
• 43:43
  is that quitting porn is the right of passage of the modern man. That's
• 43:47
  like the tools you need to It's almost a perfect like thread about what you
• 43:52
  need to develop. The tools that you need to quit porn in this society
• 43:58
  where you have it in your pocket at all times is the tools that it
• 44:01
  takes to like fully mature internally as a man. And so it's there's an
• 44:08
  opportunity there. And what I was what I was saying to Alison was that,
• 44:15
  like what you find in sexuality and marriage is like ninety five percent of
• 44:20
  the battle is actually an internal one with the man like presenting himself and developing
• 44:27
  himself into someone that she wants to feel close to because he's because he's strong,
• 44:32
  because he's solid, because he he doesn't emotionally react, but he can
• 44:37
  actually he can actually take her emotionality and not be flustered by it and all
• 44:43
  of that stuff. It's self development, but it ends up being relationally transformative.
• 44:51
  So that's what it's like. Men are. I really do think men
• 44:54
  are the leaders, whether we say so or not, whether the society says
• 44:59
  so or not. We're just we're wired that way. And so when he
• 45:01
  get he truly gets his act together. Not not because oh he should have
• 45:07
  known. He probably shouldn't have known. He had no way of knowing.
• 45:09
  But if we can actually equip them in mass at scale, uh to get
• 45:14
  their act together, it does have ripple effects. It's not. It doesn't
• 45:17
  just affect the men positively. It affects their wives, their families, their
• 45:22
  communities, everyone around them. HM. So that's not and that's not an
• 45:29
  argument. Again, it was tongue in cheek that I came in here.
• 45:32
  Oh yeah, well we'll tell you how you guys are getting anything wrong.
• 45:36
  I'm not saying any of that. Well, I know, I mean all
• 45:40
  that sounds fine. I think we've talked about that. I you know,
• 45:43
  I have a call in show. I'm all pro, completely pro masculinity,
• 45:49
  one hundred percent. So, and I do like to see positive masculinity.
• 45:52
  And I do think that we still have it. Obviously, I don't think
• 45:57
  that we honor it much. I don't and maybe that's not important. I
• 46:01
  don't think guys are necessarily looking for kudos because they keep the lights on and
• 46:06
  they keep the water running. But gratitude, yeah, well I think that
• 46:10
  it's good. It's not just good to get it, it's good to give
• 46:14
  it. But I will say that there are a couple of things that I
• 46:16
  think maybe we should see, like what we're up against. So number one,
• 46:24
  we talked about the replacement rates. So I want men to form to
• 46:30
  like meet women, fall in love, get married, and have kids,
• 46:31
  because that's what all these men want. That's what most men want. That's
• 46:35
  what they've always wanted, and I think I would like to believe that that's
• 46:38
  what women want too. But there are studies that show that women I think
• 46:46
  there was a study that I can't remember the exact numbers, but I'm just
• 46:50
  going to give you the broad strokes. Essentially that women who end up not
• 46:54
  having children most of it. And it's think it's like eighty percent of women
• 46:59
  that don't have children were actually hoping to but chose to wait too long because
• 47:04
  they were waiting like essentially they wanted to build a career and they were on
• 47:08
  the pill, and the pill changed their hormones and they were basically unable to
• 47:14
  have kids. Like they didn't they didn't meet anyone, or they just didn't
• 47:17
  it just didn't happen for them. And so this is what I think that
• 47:21
  it's this kind of idea that women can have at all, that they grew
• 47:27
  up with that is actually what is harming them. It's like they're and and
• 47:31
  so that's one thing is that women who are not having kids in most cases
• 47:36
  is not a choice. It's theming like delaying, you know, delaying for
• 47:40
  too long, and and they it's either too late for them because their bodies
• 47:45
  are you know, not able to produce children as or like they're out of
• 47:51
  eggs as the meme goes, or it's there, you know, there's some
• 47:55
  other complication where they're infertile, or they're not not meeting anyone because they waited
• 48:00
  too long, and the men that they're after are so out of their league
• 48:05
  that those men are dating women half their age, you know, half this
• 48:07
  woman's age, or at least much younger than her. That's one thing that's
• 48:12
  affecting women. And of course nobody can tell them this because that would be
• 48:15
  sexist or something. The other thing is is that I think with that one
• 48:19
  though, I mean the argument that I want to be able to make against
• 48:22
  that. And this is where I do have to put some onus on on
• 48:27
  our side as the men. Like I do think there are a lot of
• 48:30
  women. I mean, at least what I see in church or whatnot,
• 48:35
  is a lot of women who would love to get married, who would who
• 48:38
  would love to have children. Maybe they have some of the feminist narrative,
• 48:43
  but what they're really looking for is a good guy, and there are no
• 48:47
  good men not There does seem to be a supply side problem. Okay,
• 48:54
  And and I'd like to you know, I'd like to do all I can
• 49:00
  that again. Yeah, but again this comes back to the followlessness thing.
• 49:04
  So maybe the reason why there are men who are subpar is because they are
• 49:08
  not, Like they don't know their father or there's some other thing that's preventing
• 49:14
  them from realizing their potentials. So it's almost like the problem perpetuates itself.
• 49:21
  And these women a lot of times they don't want to settle, so they're
• 49:25
  looking for something that is in very short supply as and you basically said that
• 49:30
  it is, and they're not willing to settle or work with people. What
• 49:35
  Alison, why'd you leave? She's had enough? No? No, she
• 49:39
  says she had a thought. She just told me and then she dropped out
• 49:43
  of the call. Let me just let me try to get her to come
• 49:45
  back. I can stay a little past eight if you'd like. Yeah,
• 49:51
  it's oh no, I mean I got we got ten minutes. I mean
• 49:52
  she should Oh yeah, she's coming back. I don't know what's going on.
• 49:57
  Just wait till she gets back in. It's it's messing with my screen
• 50:00
  layout. Okay, so let me just move back there. Okay, we're
• 50:07
  back, all right. So what was I saying? Yeah, that women
• 50:14
  are are being the well, the feminism is causing women to delay when they're
• 50:19
  starting families, and yeah, I mean I would say more again, Like
• 50:22
  I said, this kind of this kind of egalitarian, you know, secular
• 50:30
  humanist thing that has feminism packed into it is affecting their choices and they're not
• 50:37
  really like listening to men in many cases. But then we have all The
• 50:42
  other thing I was going to get to is there was also a study about
• 50:45
  Generation Z, which are basically the young adults of today that are coming up,
• 50:50
  and they were studying the differences in sort of like you know, beliefs
• 50:55
  about like political opinions, right and I know it seems like, you know,
• 51:00
  your political views are it would seem that it's not important, but it
• 51:07
  is because ultimately it comes down to your values. That's what they're measuring.
• 51:12
  So they call it politics, but it's really like your values and men and
• 51:15
  women in Generation Z have never been further apart. So the men are moving
• 51:22
  further towards the right, which is basically more libertarian more you know, like
• 51:27
  like basically they want to be more free from statism, and the women are
• 51:30
  becoming more status but more than that, the men are like only it's only
• 51:35
  a slight shift. Women are going really far. So what it suggests to
• 51:40
  me is that this idea that if men lead, women will follow, it
• 51:45
  doesn't seem to be projecting that way. I mean, it would be nice
• 51:50
  if it happened, but I feel like women are very very very propagandized,
• 51:53
  and they're being affected, especially the younger generation, by you know, other
• 52:00
  women on social media, our entertainment industry and everything else, and we aren't.
• 52:06
  We aren't even like we're still saying that men have to do more.
• 52:13
  And I'd like to know is there at any point, like, is there
• 52:16
  something that women should be doing? Because I do see that there are women
• 52:20
  that are saying, you know, we have to write the ship ladies.
• 52:22
  But it's not like it's having a massive impact, you know what I mean.
• 52:28
  Yeah, I'm I'm not see I'm the way, and I may I
• 52:32
  may be too far here, you know, but I I'm just not at
• 52:38
  the point where I have a lot to ask of a woman that I don't
• 52:44
  have a man to present her with. I do see this statism thing to
• 52:49
  be in a sense as men, it's a direct competition to us. Well,
• 52:54
  it would be, except that the state is like it's the most hyper
• 53:00
  a miss goal. Like women like the state. Men can't compete with the
• 53:02
  state. Well, and the great thing is is that they don't. The
• 53:07
  state doesn't need to compete with them, because if the whole thing is for
• 53:09
  men to be protectors and providers, there is no greater production and provider than
• 53:14
  the state. And it does so at the expense of men. Sure,
• 53:17
  sure, I mean it's a it's a tall order. I won't deny it.
• 53:22
  Like you're you're in direct competition with a pretty pretty you know, eight
• 53:27
  hundred pound gorilla or whatether for the heart of women, you know, that's
• 53:31
  that is, that is where we are. I don't but I just I
• 53:37
  kind of I don't know, Like it's just all those all those Sons of
• 53:42
  Scotland speeches are just like resonating in my in my head that like, am
• 53:49
  I really going to say as a man that what I'm dealing with in twenty
• 53:52
  twenty four is worse, you know than I don't know than the Knights of
• 53:58
  Saint John had to deal with on the island of Malta when the Turks invaded
• 54:02
  and outnumbered them fifteen to one. You know, like it's like, what
• 54:07
  is my battle that's worth fighting, that's worth you know, holding myself up
• 54:10
  and given my all? And what I am seeing, at least on the
• 54:15
  level of individual relationships, that women who look impossible, they do respond to
• 54:23
  changes in their men. I've but I've seen it happen. We're already talking
• 54:30
  about women in relationships with men, right sure, Because what I wanted to
• 54:34
  point out is that, you know, this is well and good, but
• 54:39
  up to this point, men have had on a society that has been incentivized
• 54:45
  to produce. Not even up to this point, I would say it was
• 54:49
  really starting to deteriorate, probably you know, in my generation, but up
• 54:58
  to the point where this kind of this kind of secular rot started to take
• 55:04
  over. We had communities and we had a society that was invested in getting
• 55:09
  people paired up and promoting the idea of marriage is a good thing for women,
• 55:15
  Right, So, I mean, let's look at this in terms of
• 55:19
  that. Men don't have that anymore. They don't have a community that's invested
• 55:23
  in their success romantically. They often don't even have family that really tells them
• 55:29
  how to pursue that success, which is where I see your initiative coming in
• 55:31
  to try to mentor men to be able to manage their relationships better. They
• 55:37
  don't have like a media that's supporting them. In fact, they have the
• 55:40
  exact opposite. If you think about the average woman and the amount of stuff
• 55:46
  she's exposed to about how men make poor lovers, men make poor husbands,
• 55:52
  they make poor fathers, They're a bad investment. They will turn you into
• 55:57
  a domestic slave, will be your own person in a relationship that's on and
• 56:02
  on and on. It's endless, and we deal with it a lot on
• 56:06
  you know, with what we respond to here. Yeah, so the society
• 56:10
  itself isn't just indifferent to forming relationships. It's actively harming the process because it's
• 56:20
  constantly telling women the worst thing you can do for your health, worse than
• 56:24
  smoking, worse than injecting heroine, worse than drinking to blackout every day.
• 56:30
  The worst thing you could do for yourself is get a man. That's the
• 56:36
  message. So they go to and right now, the big place where men
• 56:40
  and women meet up. A woman who has had that message drilled into her
• 56:45
  brain almost every day of her life goes to Tinder and then she puts in
• 56:52
  all of the criteria that she says will be sufficient to justify her getting in
• 57:00
  a relationship with something that's worse than getting you know, not even heroin,
• 57:04
  getting addicted to fentanyl, right, worse for her than that, right,
• 57:07
  and this show she says, Okay, well you got to compensate that.
• 57:10
  So you got to have the six figures. You gotta be over six foot,
• 57:15
  you gotta you know, be six inches down there at least, and
• 57:17
  all of that. I have to have a six pack. Then you will
• 57:21
  compensate the detriment to my life that I've been told since I was you know,
• 57:25
  thirteen, that you will be. And then men go to there,
• 57:29
  and this is the primary way that people are getting together now because again society
• 57:34
  has just given up. We used to have dances. I mean this is
• 57:37
  something they did in like ancient Rome dances. Men and women would meet up,
• 57:42
  they'd be paired off, that kind of thing. We don't do that
• 57:44
  anymore. You know, they would need the process of finding a partner would
• 57:49
  be something that your family would help with so that you had some betting so
• 57:52
  that the man didn't come like and this is the other thing. Men just
• 57:55
  pop out like products, completely divorced any contexts. This is completely new.
• 58:01
  Used to be you know, you're he was the the blacksmiths son. You
• 58:06
  knew the blacksmith did all you know, was good for all of his contracts,
• 58:08
  always delivered on time, made good product. His son is probably going
• 58:13
  to be raised in a similar way. Good guy he'll be, he'll be
• 58:15
  good for you, he'll have he'll be a good provider, he'll raise good
• 58:20
  children. That kind of thing. That's all divorced, no social proof.
• 58:22
  So men are just products popped out in front of women. How do men
• 58:29
  even get in the position to talking to a woman when all of that is
• 58:35
  stacked in their in their way like in that that's where I'm getting at like
• 58:39
  at one I agree men should improve their situation with their current wives, but
• 58:47
  I don't think our society can handle putting up more obstacles between men and women
• 58:52
  without well, I we got to stop this. You're completely right, I
• 58:58
  mean in the in the sense of like, it's just fascinating to me.
• 59:02
  I think. I said. Another thing I said on Twitter at one point
• 59:05
  was just like you're I wonder how many of our entrenched political battles would be
• 59:12
  solved by teaching men and women how to love each other again, all of
• 59:15
  them, all of them, like all of them. No, I'm serious,
• 59:19
  all of them. It's yeah. The purpose of dividing men and women
• 59:22
  is so that it's so that people can control everybody like you. Once you
• 59:28
  do that, and you weaken the men and you terrify the women. And
• 59:31
  that's what we've done, well, not we, but they they have done.
• 59:36
  See. But the thing is if you stack, if I look at
• 59:39
  it and I say, okay, I have this whole doom and gloom situation
• 59:43
  where ever so much is so much brainwashing is put in place to, like,
• 59:50
  I don't know, keep women from loving men, And then I stack
• 59:55
  against that a you know, the ability to use all of the power of
• 1:00:00
  modern technology to train men more effectively, uh and than we've ever been able
• 1:00:07
  to train them before. And I have the power, the biological imperative inside
• 1:00:14
  men and women to love each other. I don't know, I'm still feeling
• 1:00:19
  a little bullish, like I'm going to think we're gonna go quietly into that
• 1:00:22
  good night. Of course not and I'm not and I don't. I don't
• 1:00:27
  want to spread doom and gloom either. I mean, I'm not, I'm
• 1:00:30
  not about that, but I think we have to face what is really you
• 1:00:32
  know, we have to know what we're up against. And that's what I'm
• 1:00:37
  all about. Well, here's the thing. Yeah, this can all change
• 1:00:40
  overnight if women choose to have it, to choose to push these influences out
• 1:00:49
  of their life. If women, and honestly, at this point, I
• 1:00:52
  can't see how men can break this down. It's got to be women,
• 1:00:59
  and at least on that level. Because Okay, so in a conjunction with
• 1:01:04
  all of this doom and gloom, I remember reading this very almost really funny
• 1:01:10
  tweet by a woman and she essentially said that she went on tinder, uh,
• 1:01:19
  and she had a bunch of friends who said, oh, Tinder's horrible,
• 1:01:22
  It's awful, and she was confused because she had had a great experience
• 1:01:28
  on Tinder. And what she did is she would started to observe how her
• 1:01:32
  girlfriends interacted with Tinder, and she realized that they're gonna have to correct me.
• 1:01:38
  Right, so they swiped right I think it is they swiped right on
• 1:01:42
  men she would have never swiped right on, like guys that she knew were
• 1:01:46
  bad news. But of course they had all of the superficial check marks that
• 1:01:52
  they that they thought they were looking for. And she said, well,
• 1:01:58
  what I did is I went on Tinder and I look for men. I
• 1:02:02
  didn't swipe right on the men that my my girlfriends were swiping right on.
• 1:02:06
  I look for men that would make good companions, a good match, a
• 1:02:12
  good husband. Yep, Allison, your your microphone is wrong. Sorry,
• 1:02:19
  and that's what and she basically said, and that's what I found. And
• 1:02:22
  I'm like, so essentially a woman has learned that when she goes to the
• 1:02:25
  vending machine and inputs what she wants, she gets it. Well, yeah,
• 1:02:31
  I mean it's that's where I get into my stuff. Though, Allison,
• 1:02:36
  like, if you there, there is something to the discuss what I
• 1:02:43
  would say the discovery of the red pill that I do think is a valid
• 1:02:46
  rebuke to, like say, the way men were taught in the Evangelical church
• 1:02:54
  that I grew up in. Like, I've learned new stuff that I want
• 1:02:58
  to impart to my sons. You know, I had a long talk with
• 1:03:00
  one of my sons about one of his relationships recently, and I was able.
• 1:03:06
  I felt like I was able to impart some real wisdom and that like
• 1:03:10
  there is you have the same experience you're talking about. I think a lot
• 1:03:15
  of men had it in high school right where they were. They were kind
• 1:03:19
  of the nerdy, geeky, shrimpy guy and all the and they're perfectly nice,
• 1:03:24
  and all these girls are just going after the bad boys, and why
• 1:03:29
  are they doing that? Why that doesn't make any sense to us. But
• 1:03:34
  there was there was something to it there. Even though the bad boy was
• 1:03:37
  the bad boy, there was he did have confidence, He did go at
• 1:03:42
  his goals. He like, there were lots of things where we genuinely didn't
• 1:03:46
  know we needed to get better in those areas, and it wasn't on our
• 1:03:51
  radar. We thought it was just a matter of being nice and stable and
• 1:03:53
  everything else. And I do think that sort of just being more aware that
• 1:04:00
  there's there's more to masculinity. There's more to being a good man than just
• 1:04:03
  being kind of stable and you know, doing the right things. Uh.
• 1:04:09
  I think that's a fantastic corrective that the red pill has, except they combine
• 1:04:15
  it with a lot of degeneracy. But like excise from the degeneracy, we
• 1:04:19
  we have the possibility of equipping men a lot better than they've been in the
• 1:04:26
  past. And I don't want to, like, I see what you're saying.
• 1:04:30
  I I don't have Like women do have a lot of gut around you
• 1:04:36
  know what men are attractive, and there's a lot of men that like look
• 1:04:40
  good on paper and then they get with them and they don't feel right about
• 1:04:43
  it. And I don't know that we can completely tell them to disregard that
• 1:04:46
  gut. Well, it's not really what necessarily what I'm what I'm pointing out
• 1:04:53
  if men are stuck in the filter, like if they're if they aren't checking
• 1:04:58
  the boxes that the women have as a result of our society going out of
• 1:05:03
  its way to make men out to be the worst investment a woman could get.
• 1:05:09
  Yeah, if they're if they can't get into her radar, you know,
• 1:05:13
  and if they if she has a date with him, but it's just
• 1:05:15
  a footie call, like it. We somehow we need to make that connection
• 1:05:21
  again, and they need to get into a position where they can start demonstrating
• 1:05:28
  that kind of masculinity. And I think that they're being filtered out for things
• 1:05:31
  that are that they can't change. Like somebody is five foot nine, Well
• 1:05:35
  he's not going to be able to change that, and that means he goes
• 1:05:39
  on tender and ninety percent of the women aren't going to be interested in him,
• 1:05:43
  you know. Yeah, And that's one thing too that I do equipped
• 1:05:47
  that I've said, I think it's right that the male form, the male
• 1:05:51
  body is attractive in action. Like there's all this conversation about how women,
• 1:05:57
  you know, look at tender profiles and they think most men are ugly,
• 1:06:01
  and and my theory, my theory there is that like a man can be
• 1:06:06
  like sitting around and he'll look ugly, but if he's rock climbing, if
• 1:06:11
  he's like cutting down a tree, if he's doing something physical and awesome,
• 1:06:15
  he's he's gonna look, there's gonna be more to him. And I wonder
• 1:06:19
  how much of that, uh even maybe even as much as these negative messages,
• 1:06:29
  just getting away from some physical rootiness is messing with our attractions well guaranteed,
• 1:06:34
  like yo, get get exercise, lose weight, that kind of thing.
• 1:06:39
  But again, like if a woman basically says no one under six foot,
• 1:06:45
  you know, a guy under six foot's never gonna even have the opportunity
• 1:06:48
  to be there, to be masculine with, you know, to be the
• 1:06:51
  masculine presence in the relationship. And I don't mean to say this to be
• 1:06:55
  like a downer. I'm just saying that it's definitely the perceve I do.
• 1:07:00
  I do have a theory that that's just girl math stuff. Okay, I
• 1:07:04
  have a theory and I thought about it where you know, women will say
• 1:07:06
  they because they're told over and over six feet six, you know, they
• 1:07:12
  have to be six feet tall. But like if the man is if she's
• 1:07:14
  like, you know, four eleven or something like, she like everybody's six
• 1:07:18
  foot tall to her right, Like, I think there is a girl math
• 1:07:23
  thing that that happens sometimes, but I don't. But I will say though,
• 1:07:28
  just as another example of how I think things have changed. I think
• 1:07:30
  the what I'm getting at is that I think that the dynamic the landscape is
• 1:07:34
  changed in what you mentioned some nights or something that you know that fought in
• 1:07:44
  against the Turks, right, well, what I don't know much about that,
• 1:07:48
  but it made me think about World War two and uh well maybe even
• 1:07:54
  World War One as well, but World War two specifically. Those men fought
• 1:08:00
  in that war. They they charged the beach, they you know, flew
• 1:08:02
  the bombers and all that. And what the thing that was pushing them to
• 1:08:11
  like carry on was the girl back home. Was the support they got from
• 1:08:15
  women, you know. And whether it's like legitimate or propaganda, doesn't matter,
• 1:08:20
  but there was an entire support network of women of wives waiting for their
• 1:08:26
  for their men to come home from the war. And that's how we got
• 1:08:29
  the baby boom. Right Like, when the war was over, the men
• 1:08:31
  came home and you know, they had a lot of kids because that was
• 1:08:36
  what they were fighting for. They were fighting for their families. Is what
• 1:08:41
  men When men are motivated by women to protect their country and their family and
• 1:08:45
  their and their wives not necessarily in that order, they they'll do they'll do
• 1:08:51
  anything right. Absolutely well, if we look at what's but if you look
• 1:08:56
  at what's happening in Ukraine right now, for example, there there are a
• 1:09:00
  lot of women who have just left. The men are forced to stay.
• 1:09:03
  They've been conscripted. I think they extended the age to like forty forty five
• 1:09:09
  or something like that, and the women can just leave. And those women
• 1:09:14
  are you can find advertisements all over the internet for Ukrainian wives like they're going
• 1:09:19
  to Germany and they're marrying other dudes. So, like the support, the
• 1:09:23
  support network that would normally incentivize men to like, you know, reach deep
• 1:09:30
  down and like find like that, like the inner strength to like to basically
• 1:09:35
  fight and win a war and come home to their wife is the support is
• 1:09:41
  not there. It's not the same at least, I don't think so.
• 1:09:44
  I think that if there was a war here in the States, you would
• 1:09:47
  I mean I hope there isn't, you know, but considering everything that's going
• 1:09:50
  on that might happen, like they've they've tabled conscription again, I don't think
• 1:09:55
  we're going to get the same kind of support that got you know that the
• 1:10:00
  greatest generation had. Yeah, no, I think you're I think you're right
• 1:10:04
  about that. I think that if men have what would I say, like
• 1:10:13
  you, when you have when you have the men feeling like they have something
• 1:10:21
  to fight for, it unlocks a tremendous amount of power. There's yeah,
• 1:10:27
  there's just it does. It does, which is why our societies. By
• 1:10:30
  the way, by the way, I know we're going over, but by
• 1:10:33
  the way, I also want to mention that it's women's. Women are the
• 1:10:39
  reason why our borders are wide open, because they're the ones that want men
• 1:10:43
  from other countries coming in because they see the men of this country is so
• 1:10:47
  weak. They're looking for reproductive opportunities through foreign men. I think I think
• 1:10:55
  it is. I think it is like the party of single women, like
• 1:10:57
  you bring up, like they're the they're the ones that vote for this stuff.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah, no, he's in terms of voting patterns, He's right,
• 1:11:04
  Like women are more likely to support on unfettered immigration, and they're more likely
• 1:11:12
  to support that, the more likely if they're single. Remember, I got
• 1:11:15
  into conversation an argument with a feminist, several feminists, and it's it's you
• 1:11:20
  know, I use I do what I what I try to do in these
• 1:11:24
  conversations and try to find okay, what's what's behind this? And there I
• 1:11:30
  was asked, you know, what do I have against feminism? And my
• 1:11:33
  reply was like, the biggest thing I object to about feminism is the narrative
• 1:11:39
  that, like the fundamental historic relationship like posture between men and women throughout history
• 1:11:46
  has been antagonistic, has been animosity, and said, I just I do
• 1:11:53
  not believe that's true. And this this lady asked me. She said,
• 1:11:57
  well, well, what do you what do you think the posture was that
• 1:12:01
  it's like love, Yeah, you should ask her like what did your what
• 1:12:05
  did your did your grandfather hate your grandmother? It was like like this like
• 1:12:10
  a shot, like just like have you not heard of this thing that the
• 1:12:15
  poet Saul sang about? You know? And and she's like, what what
• 1:12:18
  evidence would you give me? What evidence would you give me that that was
• 1:12:21
  the posture and not just oppression. And I was like and I just I
• 1:12:27
  just like pulled it out of thin air. But I was like, I
• 1:12:29
  don't know, go read some civil war letters, you know, we can
• 1:12:31
  really just like I I mean, I don't know, I haven't done the
• 1:12:35
  analysis of how many of our antagonistic versus you know, Lord, please bring
• 1:12:41
  you back to me safely, And like like I just poetic, just all
• 1:12:46
  everything you're doing. I'm so proud of you. But I but I love
• 1:12:49
  you so much and I want you home say for you know, I'm trying
• 1:12:54
  to be brave because I know you and the girls you know would want me
• 1:12:58
  to be brave, and like that's that's normal, that's normal humanity. And
• 1:13:03
  and I'm just you know, I'm an advocate for love and I did he
• 1:13:09
  did she? I'm just curious, did she say it? Come back with
• 1:13:11
  anything? Oh? It's just I mean, it's just like, oh,
• 1:13:14
  well that was a special situation or there's there's special cleaning. And at a
• 1:13:17
  certain point you're like, okay, what what what happened? You know,
• 1:13:21
  what happened to you? Perfect, like tell me about it. It sounds
• 1:13:27
  like it was really bad, right, and and it's it's that kind of
• 1:13:31
  it really is that kind And it really was that it really was that you
• 1:13:34
  don't know what my father did to me and and to me and it wasn't
• 1:13:39
  like, well, that's no reason to condemn all of us. It's like,
• 1:13:42
  no, that's you tell me about what your father did. I'm so
• 1:13:45
  sorry, you know. That's I get the ones that have apps, they're
• 1:13:48
  like, oh my father was wonderful, and I was supported by my father
• 1:13:54
  and my brothers and all the things I wanted to do. And men just
• 1:13:57
  want to oppress women. They just hates us. And I'm like, Okay,
• 1:14:01
  there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise if the evidence before your
• 1:14:06
  eyes and your relationships with the men in your life have been universally positive.
• 1:14:12
  And I'm like, okay, well a certain point. But as a certain
• 1:14:16
  point, there's some of that red pill skill set that I do think is
• 1:14:20
  helpful. Yeah, no, no, I agree, Like you're trying to
• 1:14:23
  find like I had an exchange, you know, similar to the one where
• 1:14:29
  you know, we were kind of play acting earlier. Earlier today there was
• 1:14:34
  there was a lady that was going after me and what did she she She
• 1:14:40
  just like started laying into me for not a not a real good reason're looking
• 1:14:47
  for this and yeah, hang on, so what's going on? I think
• 1:15:00
  I got a super I got I gotta read a couple of super childs.
• 1:15:02
  And then I think we go ahead, we gotta we gotta wrap bucks.
• 1:15:05
  We've gone all over, We've gone over. So thank you for the conversation,
• 1:15:11
  though, So I got three Richard Bierre gives us all three of them.
• 1:15:15
  So he gives us five bucks and says, how many churches that have
• 1:15:18
  fully embraced the rainbow alphabet mafia agenda just happened to have a female clergy by
• 1:15:24
  any chance? Well, it depends on the dominant denomination, I will say,
• 1:15:28
  because Protestantism is so like fractured and splintered. Uh. And also universal
• 1:15:34
  Unitarians or whatever, those are not Christians, absolutely not. They're just woke
• 1:15:41
  like activists that happen to live in a church that looks like a church,
• 1:15:45
  but it's not. So I don't know. I know that there is a
• 1:15:48
  lot of progressivism in Protestantism, though I will say that I don't know.
• 1:15:53
  I won't speak for last. Sure there is, there is. Yeah.
• 1:15:58
  Richard Bier then gives another five bucks, and let me see if I can
• 1:16:00
  put that one on the screen. No, it's not there, it's gone.
• 1:16:06
  Just read it. Career women freezes eggs for a decade, probably spends
• 1:16:11
  the equivalent of a mortgage keeping them frozen, gets desperate in her forties.
• 1:16:15
  Eight don't survive the thaw, one doesn't become a viable embryo, last one
• 1:16:19
  implanted, and then miscarried after a few days. Gender roles are very much
• 1:16:24
  linked to survival mode practices. With the absence of needing to struggle to survive,
• 1:16:29
  generals become redundant to the point of becoming accepting of degeneracy. If the
• 1:16:33
  level one and two on the Maslow hierarchy of needs were more difficult to maintain,
• 1:16:38
  then there will be less abandonment of gender roles. Well, yeah,
• 1:16:41
  I mean people in like, poorer countries have more kids and they stay together.
• 1:16:45
  So I'm not saying we should be a poor country, but I think
• 1:16:49
  we should like we should certainly. So we're up against We're having to figure
• 1:16:54
  out how to create explicitly the things that we got implicitly from scarcity. We
• 1:17:01
  actually build that and learn how to give ourselves the limitations we need to make
• 1:17:06
  us better so we thrive. It's like learning learning how that you have to
• 1:17:11
  go to the gym and work out. We didn't used to have to do
• 1:17:13
  that, And we have to do that around our intersexual relationships now yeah,
• 1:17:18
  yeah, uh, okay, from I'm not saying that, you know,
• 1:17:26
  okay, actually finish the last super child. Yeah, I got one more
• 1:17:29
  super chowd. So get through Richard again gives us five bucks and says it
• 1:17:31
  would be easier to convince a redneck to pass up a bass boat with a
• 1:17:35
  glitter finish on it then it would be to convince a woman to reject in
• 1:17:39
  a detrimental influence. Thank you for those that that's a bit of an obscure
• 1:17:45
  reference for me. But I live in Virginia. But I mean I'm still
• 1:17:47
  a Chicago and at heart. Okay, so I want to just say something
• 1:17:53
  to that, and Okay, what I want to say is, yes,
• 1:17:56
  I know it's very difficult, and maybe this is where my my Pollyanna comes
• 1:18:00
  out. I think it's worth finding the women who are willing to do that,
• 1:18:04
  and you know, I want to equip them with the ability to fight
• 1:18:11
  back against the ones who want to turn them into hollow, bitter shells or
• 1:18:15
  think that they are trying to proselytize this lifestyle. I mean, I've had
• 1:18:19
  women on Twitter who've messaged me, I mean, I'm outside of Twitter too,
• 1:18:25
  and have said, you know, questioning this stuff, using the things
• 1:18:29
  that you talk about has made me feel better in my life because you can
• 1:18:33
  jettison all kinds of baggage when you realize that the relationship between men and women
• 1:18:39
  is predominantly defined by love and cooperation and not oppression. Like it's there's all
• 1:18:46
  kinds of psychological, like painful psychological baggage that you have to carry to believe
• 1:18:55
  that, and when you let it go, it feels so much lighter good,
• 1:19:00
  you know. And I've had women who've said that to me that this
• 1:19:04
  has been very freeing, and it's been an experience that's made them enjoy their
• 1:19:11
  life more and appreciate their partner more, you know, and open themselves up
• 1:19:15
  to love more. And may not be like all women are, even a
• 1:19:21
  majority of women, but I'm gonna stave, you know, like the the
• 1:19:25
  boy throwing the starfish's back in the ocean and there's a whole beach full of
• 1:19:29
  them, Well, you know, it makes a difference for that starfish.
• 1:19:32
  So if I can make a difference, and you know, there's other things
• 1:19:36
  that keep me going. For example, there was a woman in a couple
• 1:19:42
  of men's rights conferences back you know, Elizabeth, remember Brian, Yeah,
• 1:19:48
  we she was someone who was dealing with some really serious damage she had.
• 1:19:54
  Actually she was a product of rape, specifically her mother raping her father and
• 1:20:00
  her mother had sexually abused her. And I remember the first conference, men's
• 1:20:05
  men's issues conference that she came to, and they tried the guy at the
• 1:20:11
  door. The security guy came up to me. He like pulls me aside
• 1:20:14
  and he's like, I think, I think a lesbian feminist is coming to
• 1:20:17
  crash the event. And I said, Okay, well let's see, because
• 1:20:23
  I don't think they'd be that interesting. We've had that happen before, to
• 1:20:26
  be fair to us, so there was cause for concern. In fact,
• 1:20:30
  there was. There were some journalists journalists I didn't that were there benefit of
• 1:20:34
  the doubt. So I took her Yeah, sure, but I'm just saying,
• 1:20:38
  like the just to in defense of the guy who gave you that message,
• 1:20:42
  you know, just we know where it's coming. We're we're not just
• 1:20:45
  like by default antagonistic people. But yeah, So I took her aside to
• 1:20:49
  talk to her, and I realized that her interest in these issues is very
• 1:20:55
  genuine, and so she came, and she was able to talk in a
• 1:21:00
  in a community where it wasn't verboten to talk about female sexual abuse and other
• 1:21:05
  people would be willing and able to accept that experience. And also her experience
• 1:21:11
  of having been rejected by her father because she looked like her mother, and
• 1:21:15
  all of the other stuff that she had dealt with, which is completely outside
• 1:21:18
  what feminists are willing to acknowledge. And you know, and then I learned,
• 1:21:25
  and we had a long conversation and we did an interview of her,
• 1:21:29
  and then I learned the next year, or the year I think it was.
• 1:21:32
  The next year was twenty sixteen, no, twenty eighteen, that she
• 1:21:36
  had actually taken her life prior to the convention. And I think one aspect
• 1:21:44
  of that was because the convention was such a relief to her that she was
• 1:21:48
  having problems with the idea that she had to go back to her regular life
• 1:21:54
  and live a world that would not accept the pain that she had been through
• 1:21:59
  and would not support for her and would not acknowledge the issues that she was
• 1:22:03
  very passionate for about. And that really struck me, because, you know,
• 1:22:09
  there but the grace of God, go, I. There but the
• 1:22:12
  community that I'm a part of, go I you know, because I have
• 1:22:15
  some stuff in my past as well that that's similar, and and I do
• 1:22:21
  that I do, you know, I do this for her, and I
• 1:22:24
  do it for all the other women who are ignored, marginalized, and made
• 1:22:29
  lesser by feminism. So no matter what, you know, even if I'm
• 1:22:34
  only picking up one starfish and throwing them into the ocean, I'm going to
• 1:22:38
  still keep doing it. So and you know, and I appreciate that that
• 1:22:43
  you are doing that as well for men, Yeah, you know, well
• 1:22:46
  and for when Yeah, I mean and indirectly for women. I still think.
• 1:22:53
  I still think deeply, strong, generous, capable men are a fantastic
• 1:22:59
  counter argument to these feminist narratives about men like actually experiencing them in life.
• 1:23:04
  Yeah. The more the more we can women can have experience of men like
• 1:23:10
  that, that's that has an impact. Yeah, And we just need to
• 1:23:17
  get men realizing that that's something that they all that in many cases they already
• 1:23:21
  are and they just have to not listen to all the crap. Yeah,
• 1:23:29
  okay, all right, Well we should wrap it up here just because we've
• 1:23:33
  gone over, But if you ever want to come back on, we can
• 1:23:35
  talk about some other things. One of the things that I am a massive
• 1:23:40
  advocate of is men creating like social fraternity with each other. I think that
• 1:23:46
  it's it's absolutely crucial, and I think that in almost every case where men
• 1:23:51
  try to form up fraternity, there's like, you know, some somebody wagging
• 1:23:58
  their finger at them, worry that they're doing doing something nefarious. So I
• 1:24:01
  think that, you know what I mean, like there's like a I mean,
• 1:24:04
  I've started, I've started a men's group at my church. Yeah,
• 1:24:09
  some of these just like trying to build masculinity and stuff. And we we
• 1:24:13
  initially had some opposition of that of that nature. But yeah, yeah,
• 1:24:17
  so our church just told him to leave us alone. So well that's good,
• 1:24:21
  that's good. Yeah, we need we need more of that. I
• 1:24:25
  think that that that's something that you know, is absolutely crucial because men,
• 1:24:29
  especially if they don't know their father, they need something to model themselves after.
• 1:24:33
  Right, So anyway, something positive by the way. Anyway, So
• 1:24:40
  with that said, we're gonna wrap up the show there. Thanks so much
• 1:24:43
  for coming on the show. Last appreciate you having having the you know,
• 1:24:47
  making the time to come on and talk to us. Thank you for having
• 1:24:50
  me. Appreciate it. Yeah, and you can find his contact his his
• 1:24:55
  twitter is all I have is in the description. I don't know if you
• 1:24:58
  have like a website, but I think everything is on your twitter anyways,
• 1:25:01
  So you can just go reach out on Twitter. Yeah yeah, open,
• 1:25:05
  yeah, there you go, and yeah, let us know what you guys
• 1:25:09
  think. So we're gonna wrap up the show there. If you guys liked
• 1:25:12
  this video, please hit like subscribe. If you're not already subscribed, hit
• 1:25:15
  the BELF notifications, leave us a comment, let us know what you guys
• 1:25:17
  think about what we discussed on the show today, and please please please share
• 1:25:23
  this video because sharing is caring. Thank you guys so much for coming on
• 1:25:26
  today's episode of The Fireside Chat, and we'll talk to you all in the
• 1:25:29
  next video.