Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5E5 The Menendez Brothers- A Family’s Darkest Secrets Revealed

Transcript

S5E5 The Menendez Brothers- A Family’s Darkest Secrets Revealed · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmm, Hey, what's you know what the topic tonight?
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta put on a button down.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I gotta put on my wife's medium sized sweater because
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I don't have one right now. That's past Dell unfortunately.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: And then, uh, you.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Know kinda eighties tennis player.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Hot like I don't belong. It doesn't look anything. Well.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I have to say I would have considered going on
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: a date with you.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: You know what I will take considered.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because if you
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: would have asked me to play tennis, I would have
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: been like, yes, screw you, and then it would have
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: been over.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I don't play tennis.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Devils just trying to get me to play pickleball, and
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I'm not so sure that's me.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I had a roommate, Chris, He's I absolutely love him.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I get to see him on Monday and he played
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: tennis and he played tennis for the university I want
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: to and he tried to teach me. And I don't
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: know how he doesn't look like Gumby because he's just
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: as lanky as I am. But I look ridiculous. There
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: are limbs going in all different directions. That just should not.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Some people are made for it in some art. I mean,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: just like swimming.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Now, yes, I have.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: To say, lovely, are you all settled back in from
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: the VAK on the cruise back to reality?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate it. I hate it so much.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I did I did get I did get myself a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: hairs cut. So the it's gone, the ponytail's gone, it's
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: all gone. So it's still kind of an undercutish type thing.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: But it's yeah, there's nothing back here at all. It
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: was about time, so but yeah, so I hate being back.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I hate being back so much that we've gone ahead
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: and booked another cruise in a year, which is too
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: long till then. But you got a plan and this
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: time we're going to take the kids.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: But oh, I was like, am I invited? You know what?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely yourself?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: That would be a bad idea. Can you imagine missus
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: brew crime and double h having to put up with
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the two of us together.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, they just drink, they drink, we'd drink then be fine.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I just make sure if my kids can't unlock the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: door to get out of our room after one, it's fine,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I am going to hijack the show for a minute.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hijack away.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I was having a rough week and then I found
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: out that life can get better even though someone screws up.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Did I screw up?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: No?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: You sent me the Peak Paris Hilton heart shaped block
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: with the knives are gold and the handles are glittery,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and they are sharp as yet, I mean they are
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: sharp and they are.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Hu they are gold and sparkly.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And the only reason I said screw up is because
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: you sent it as a gift. Walmart sent me a
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: text with gift card on what you said, and then
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a product description of what the product was before it
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: even got so.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: PSA for everybody. If you choose gift option from Walmart,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: it shouldn't surprise nobody. And by the way, I didn't
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: buy these during the blackout day. But if if you
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: choose the gift option and you put in a little note,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: they don't just send a note, they will also send
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: what Terry said, which was a full description of what
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the gift is, so don't do that.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: In the box, there was no gift note. The only
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: gift note I got was the text. So if you
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: hadn't given them my phone number, I wouldn't have got
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: a note. But guys, I have to tell you, these
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: scissors are so sharp. I took them to try it
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: against something I didn't even have to squeeze, and it
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: cut fabric. They are that sharp. So I'm going to
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: be going around a laer.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I wanted you to look at it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So thank you. I love them, and I asked doubleh.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, can I put these in the kitchen? And
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: he was like, of course you can't.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: So am I to say no.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I love them. But my next thing, I
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: have a small rant. I don't know how many of
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: our viewers are on TikTok. I share this on Discord
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: in our executive chat. I love Discord. I mean I
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: love Discord. I love TikTok the people I follow. Guess
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: who is now on TikTok as herself and is proclaiming
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: to be an advocate for her and her daughter. Now,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: before you answer, I'm going to just go on the
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: record right now and say she guilty. She should not
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: be advocating.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: No, and I can think of a judge that we've
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: spoken to who would agree. Yeah, so that you give
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you a.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I was shocked to see that be on TikTok and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a lady that I followed, Bennette Peach, who is amazing.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: She did a post today and she was like, I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: blocked this girl and so many of my followers were
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: following her. I blocked all of them. She's like, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: don't care if I lose every follower, And so I
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: sent her a message and I was like, how can
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: me or somebody on the team follow her just so
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: we can see her craziness and talk shit about her
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and you not block us?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And I mean you guys, if you haven't had
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a chance to listen to the Judge Blevin's interview, please
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: please please go back and and check it out. We
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: will make sure that we have a link. We'll see
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: if we can get a link in the chat. We're
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: not gonna mention well we had to say. Was more
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: than I thought he would say, So, uh, give them
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: give it a listen. It's a it's a great it's
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a great interview.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: It is. But because we're covering such a well known
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: case tonight and a very important case, I really needed
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: to say that because there are some people who make
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: mistakes or circumstances cause actions and they're regretted her actions
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: were not that, and she has never taken ownership, and
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: to me, it is so disrespectful to come out and
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: say that you're a professional advocate for her and her daughter,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: because no, you're off drinking bitch, and you still haven't
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: even owned it. Okay, that's it. There's my brant, because
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: that's fair.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I mean I will go.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: On a very short well yeah, yeah, I mean I'll
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: go on a very short rate and say everybody should
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: like subscribe and hit that notification bell and whatever else
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you need to do. We are also a podcast as well.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: We will take these turn them into podcasts. So if
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you're audio, that's great, but we still love the fact
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that you're here listening. And then we are working on
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: another option too, and we will have more about that
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: coming soon. So there's gonna be another We're trying to
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: hit all the learning styles, all the listenings. We're trying
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to hit a little bit of everything for everyone. So
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: just be ready. If you're somebody who likes to kind
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of get down a rabbit hole or learn more about
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: a specific thing and you don't get everything on the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: live show, where there's gonna be an option for you,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: So yay. We'll leave it up with that for now.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Now, I just saw that we have somebody in the
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: chat that I earlier. I'm going to do a shameless
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: plug for Midday Missing, but we might have to lose
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: our producer because she finds the most amazing families for
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: me to talk to. And I am shocked that she
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: gets these families willing who come on and talk to me.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: She does her job so well. It makes me look
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: really bad because I can't even remember to show up
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: for a broadcast sometimes and she can find amazing families.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: But I will say, if you haven't come to join
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: us on Midday Missing, and if you can't come at lunchtime,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: watch it on replay and on Monday. We have a
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: sister who literally within the first five minutes I had
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: not running down my nose because I was ugly crying.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: You need a mustache to catch it, and you'll be
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: all right?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Oh will that help? I can get one, maybe I
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: can stop.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, shame. I'll lend you mine.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, we have royalty in the house.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, Hi, mister Laggey, how you doing?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Okay? That is it's so funny. Is on my to
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: do list, it says call Craig tomorrow. Okay, Craig, that is,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: are you like living in my brain? Because that's scary.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's that's a very you don't in my brain?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: All right, So before we hop into this case, we
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: do want to just do just a couple of shameless
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: plugs just to let you know. We have a live
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: show happening at Hamilton Pool Vineyard Farms, May third, twenty
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: twenty five. This will be our first live show. We're very,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: very excited about it. From three pm to five pm Central.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Tickets are on sale, so please please, please, thank you,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: please please please go take a look. If you are
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in the general area, we would love love to see
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: you out there. We've already sold some tickets, we're looking
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to sell more, and we can't wait. You got anything
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: else on that one?
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I would know? Well. I am talking tomorrow with the
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: people in Marion, Ohio to confirm that date. It looks
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: like it's going to be July nineteenth, so hopefully they
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: will have that up soon. I also put some calls
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: into a couple of places in Houston to do a show.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Since Craig's on, I might as well just tell him
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: why I was calling him tomorrow, I want to, as
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I mentioned you guys, I want to do a show
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: in the Houston area where we recap Chase's case and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: bring it all out from beginning to open and do
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it somewhe in the area. I even reached out to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: some place called Outlaw Brothers Bar that's in where I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: grew up in north Shore, and my nephew told me, yeah,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: you don't need to go there, Terry, that is not
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: a place you need to be. So trying to find
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: someplace a little safer for us to go.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Are you saying there is this too much?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure I would show up like this well,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: because he said it's gotten rough, and I don't know
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: what rough means, but I don't want to find out
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: because I don't do well when.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Like to turn her rough, like when she says it's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: gonna get.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: It's going to get rough. I don't know, I don't know.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: It scared me when he said yeah and there had
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: been a shooting. I was like, yeah, no, I I no, I've.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Good well And as if you if you haven't heard,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and Terry, I don't know if you've said anything throughout
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the week, but we are there were There was something
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: suggested to us by our producer and she said, hey,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: U cults, we should talk about something like this, and
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: she was like, you need to you need to talk
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: about the Zizian cult. And then she started talking about
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: it and I went blank. My brain went blank. It
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: shut down for a second, like it was filled ai.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And but we are we they everybody's been working real hard,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: specifically producer Tara, producer Amy. Who else is working on it?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Is it Lady and Gray working on it? Maybe? I
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: don't know. There's a Terry j.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Basically it's a lot of village.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Yes. And so this is going to be every Sunday
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: until we stop. And it's going to be starting this
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Sunday on the ninth at nine pm Eastern, and we
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: are going to be doing a special investigation series because
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: although this is a buck Wild case, there are very
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: few people talking about it, and so the amount of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: hard work that the crew has put into this, I'm
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: very excited for you to hear about it. Obviously it's crazy,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: but that's kind we like a little bit of crazy.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: So here we are.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I will say, I am so glad that producer Tara
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: is agreed to come on with this because just the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: amount of research they've done in reading this story, I
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: don't know if the peroxide whatever they use to make
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: my hair blonde instead of gray, is going to my brain.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I can't wrap my head around it. It is so much.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they'll just said has been rough for a while.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Bell Northshore was rough when I was there, but we
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: had showdowns in Palomino and you were safe there. Okay,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: apparently this place is where showdowns used to be for
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: those people who know where that is. But anyway, the
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Zizzy and cult, I am going to just say it
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: will probably be the craziest, most mind warped thing we
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: have ever covered.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: It's like if you thought an episode six plot twist
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: was crazy, there is like a plot twist every single episode.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It's insane. It's I'm talking it up, but that's a read.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: There's a reason for that. One it's good business, but
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: two it's insane.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But it's also a good way for us to indoctrine
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: our cult that we're gonna build that where everybody has
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: to wear pink and drink wine.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I'm getting there slowly, and and believe me, if you
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: don't have pink, Terry will send you some.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, just ask producer Tara. She's gonna be dumped in
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: that glitter I center. She hasn't said anything about the glitter,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: so I must have done really well because I kept
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: it very simple.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Or she just hasn't opened it yet. You know what
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: we should talk about our wine pairing? Shouldn't we just say?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I think this is what they call avoidance because this
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: is a topic.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Girl. So here is here's the deal about this case.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: It's a little longer because it's a little more in
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: detailed and we're covering a lot of stuff tonight, so
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: you know, just know it's gonna be a little longer
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: than ourn't typical. See how it goes. But we've got
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of visuals thanks to producer Terra and Amy
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: and stuff, and so I'm very excited to be able
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: to do that for you. Also, Amy just gifted five memberships,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: so thank you Amy.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: There she goes again, just being amazing, right.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: All right, so drinks? I do you want to go first?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: You want me to?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I will go first. I don't have it in here
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: because I threw it away, but I am doing the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: black Box Rose and the box says it has enticing
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: notes of strawberries and raspberries and it's light refreshing and
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: fruit forward, and guys, I have to tell you it
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: tastes even better than they say. But I will tell
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you I've had one glass and I'm already kind of
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: feeling it. So it might be one of those that
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: gets you drunk curly fast because it is so easy
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: to drink. But it's what do you yell me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: That sounds good? It sounds good. I've had Black Box
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: wine before. It's pretty good.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I've never had their roses I.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Have pulled. I had to look for it, but it's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: by California Dream Wines. It's their Pino Grigio. I think
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: it's a really pretty it's a really pretty pretty label.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: But uh I picked that because you know, the sun,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the surf, the palm trees, not a care in the world.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That's the California Dream That's what it says on the label,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: so it must be true. But uh yeah, that's uh
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: seemingly where you know what the the actions of the
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: men Anda's brothers wanted so and apparently I have good
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: taste because producer Tara also almost had that tonight. It
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: was on the Lovely Bottom Shelf a lovely five seventy five.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I was very appreciative of the price. IM not yep.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Where the heck do you find that for five dollars
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and seventy five?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Sense Kroger the grocery store.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we don't have that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, it's uh, it's reasonable, is what
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: it is. It's really not bottom shelf. It's kind of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: like second from the bottom shelf. So you know, I'm
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: a fancy I fancy. I mean I think my bottle instead,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: My box because it was a box wine. I think
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: it said there was four bottles in the box and
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it was sixteen ninety finish. No, Lady in Gray, we
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: do not have a Kroger, but we have H G. B. Sprouts,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Trader Joe's Central Market, and I think we might have
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: a Tom Thumb on the other side of town, but
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: we do not have a Kroger.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: What the hell is a tom Thumb.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It's an actually store. Okay. That is where Jeff when
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: he was little and I took him there for Thanksgiving
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and Tom Thumb had Tom the turkey dressed up and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: we were buying a turkey to cook, and he was like,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: we can't eat Tom.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I'm glad it was a turkey and not like just
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a gigantic thumb. Yeah, but somebody thumb dressed up.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So y'all don't have Tom Thumb.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, we have the story.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: It's either Kroger's or Tom Thumb's. That's part of Vaughn's.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: But I don't have. You know what, it's a dark night.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: We're just gonna have to find it is the lighthearted
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: stuff wherever we can.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Agreed. If you saw the thumbnail, you know what we're
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: talking about. Uh, there's there's some about the Menendaz brother's
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: case that kind of makes it impossible to ignore. Maybe
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: it's the sheer theatricality of it all too rich kids
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: killed their parents, then they went on a spending spree
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: like they won the lottery. And maybe it's kind of
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: how they were dressed for court, coordinated pastel sweaters like
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: they were posing for Ralph Lauren ad or joining the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Easter egg hunt at the White House one of the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: two instead of standing trial for paraside. It checks every
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: true crime box, privileged family dysfunction, courtroom drama, just enough
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: absurdity to make you wonder if it was written by
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: the same dude who wrote the Jersey Shore Beyond the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Spectacle though, and it was a spectacle. It's a case
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that still divides people today. Were they traumatized kids seeking
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: escape or entitled brats who thought they could get away
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: with murder? Is it possible they were both that gray
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: area where morality, psychology, legal maneuvering collide. It's exactly why
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: this case still does attention. And I mean, let's be honest,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: no one ever forgets a trial that involves fifteen thousand
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: dollars worth of Rolex watches and a spontaneous trip to
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the Bahamas after a crime. But last, but certainly not least,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in terms of how the verdict fit in with,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you know, all of the other stuff that was going
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: on in California, and wondering if if today, if the
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: same thing were to happen with the same defense, if
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't have ended up differently. And so that's something
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: that I'm interested in talking about tonight. And you won't
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: see Terry and I battling back and forth. I think
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: we have pretty much the same thoughts on this trial,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: same conclusions for the most part. So sorry, you're not
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: going to get a debate, but we are interested in
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: reading what you have to say, so please please participate
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: in the chat as we're going through it, and I'm
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: going to hand it off to Terry.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Well and please I'm going to just say, bless your heart.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You said fifteen thousand dollars worth of Rolex watches. You
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: realize that's one watch, right, is it?
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know. They only Rolexes as resale. They only
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: sell use Rolexes now. They rarely make new ones though
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: they still do.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: But you they're like really expensive. I'm I can't afford one,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: but and it's not on my bucket list to have one.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: But I just always think it's cute because it's something
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I said to somebody one time. I was like, oh,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I can't wait until I can afford a Rolex. I'll
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: try to save up like five grand and they laughed
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: at me.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: That is the cost of a Raymond watch.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I was like, not a roller. So just gonna tell
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you guys up front, this case is very emotional for me.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It hits a little too close to home, but I
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: think it's a very important case because as a survivor
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: of abuse, I understand why Colin Eric wanted to kill
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the parents. You know the trauma and the pain that
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: they endured. If you've never lived it, you can't imagine it,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and their actions I think stemmed from years of suffering. Now,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: with that being said, I do not think or excuse
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: what they did to their parents. You know, I empathize
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: with their experiences after someone who's lived it, I do
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: not condone vigilanty or killing your parents. But on the
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: other hand, I have empathy and some understanding because murder
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: is never the answer, and we all know their choices
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: led to devastating onces. And the case fascinates me because
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I think it raises complex questions about justice, abuse and
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: our legal system and the way we handle it and
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: long term trauma. So I think that is why it
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: is so much still a case that needs to be
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: talked about today, because we need to do better as
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: a society and how we take things into consideration.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I'd like to think we've advanced a
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: little further than when this was tried the first and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: second time. I don't know. I think in some areas
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we have I think in other areas we've probably regressed.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I would hope to think that this was handled a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: little bit differently though, But I'm interested in getting into this,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: so I'm interested in hearing. You know, let's let's get
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: started with you know, your your spot on their owner.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Well, let's get started. I do want to give a
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: trigger warning. I'm sure you've heard about Kyle and Eric
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Menindez and the Menindaz brothers case, but there is a
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: lot of disturbing information. We are not going to get
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: into the details, but I do want everyone to know
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: if sexual assault, emotional abuse, child abuse, I mean, any
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: of that triggers you, come back and ze us next week.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: This is not the time for us. I can't even
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: tell you when to come back because unfortunately this case
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: is filled with it.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Lyle was born on January tenth in New York in
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight. I was just a gleam in my
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: parent's eye. But and Eric was born on November twenty seventh,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy in New Jersey. Now I was four months
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: old then, so you know who knows, but their parents
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: are say anything. Jose and Kitty Mania.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I gave you that knife block said I should shut up.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: That's what that is.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Look at that photo.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: It's adorable. It is so cute. I am sure that
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I have photos like that holding my brother.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's right, you're the oldest.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I am the oldest, yes, probably because I act like
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: it minus the daredevil. But for the most part, you know,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty responsible, although you know, being a single military dad,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: my brother's pretty damn responsible, so you know, and he's.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Kind of attractive. But we're going to move on. Jose
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: was a self made Cuban immigrant who worked very hard
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and became very successful. And I'm going to be honest
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: and think because he was an immigrant and he worked
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: so hard for that American dream, it led to him
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: having very high expectations for a while. Eric, I also
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: want to say Kitty, because we don't talk a lot
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: But.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: There is so many things I read that make me
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: think that she also suffered abuse controlling, and she was,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: but I can't excuse her because she did a lot
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of bad things too. So but their dad was a
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: strict disciplinarian and guys, he demanded total perfection, and I
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: am just going to say, there is nothing that can
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: be done perfect. I'm sorry. We are humans. We are
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: not meant to be perfect. I don't care how hard
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: we try, but Jose expected them to be perfect in
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: school and athletics.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: It's it's a total nightmare. I mean, you know, I
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: just did a little bit of research kind of seeing
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: kind of how this was playing out in terms of
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: his role with them, and that kind of parenting has
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the complete opposite effect, And you know, I was looking
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: at it, and the NIH says that basically demanding perfection
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: from a child can lead to significant negative effects, including anxiety,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: low self esteem, fear of failure, tendency to self criticize,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and a reluctance to take risks. And as children internalize
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that message that they're only valued when they're flawless, this
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: hinders their overall development and well being. You know, I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times, working towards becoming an adult
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: is about what Miss Frizzle says, which is taking chances,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: getting messy, you know what I mean, Like, you got
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to take chances, you got to make mistakes in order
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: to learn from them. And if you're always supposed to
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: be perfect, I mean, no, it's not going to happen.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: But I mean I already have enough on my plate
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: with imposter syndrome and recovering Catholicism, A thank you, so
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I do not need any more.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You got that Catholic guilt. I got the same.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I mean it is perpetual.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Company that one of our things in our employee hook says,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: to be successful, you have to fail sometimes, and we
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: want you to fail because you will not be successful
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: and be the best you if you don't fail. Right,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: and considering it is Lent, I can say with the Catholicism,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: when I told my mom back in two thousand and seven,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I think that I was giving up the Catholic religion
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: for Lent, she did not laugh. And I will say
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: I have continued that through to today.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: You're very committed towards Lent so much. You made it
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five, all right.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I you know, but I still got
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Catholic guilt now. Lyle was known to be the more
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: rebellious and a bit of a troublemaker, while Eric shrink
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: and his brother shadow but guys. Eric was the dynamic
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and very talented tennis player. But I think all of
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: us that are younger siblings, unlike JT. There's that dynamic,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: you know, there's the older sibling. I mean your brother.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: You think highly of him, but he probably wanted to
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: be like you, So he probably shrinked just a little
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: bit because I think that's the natural thing that we do.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: JT's not buying it.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: No, I I you know there, I am very self
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: aware in terms of like wherever I went, he was
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: going to follow, specifically in terms not not like literally,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: but like in terms of school, right like when high school.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: When I had high school, he was still two grades back.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And eventually he made it in and he had the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: same teachers I did, and they were like, oh, you're
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: he was always JT's little brother, and so he had
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to kind of he very much did kind of do
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: his own thing. And it wasn't until like junior or
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: senior year where he kind of decided to not bring
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: so much into a wallflower but to comp out there.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It just happened to be in silver tights on a stage,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: which was like my spot, but you know, that was
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: the thing. That's what he decided to do, and eventually
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: he came into his own. But I can totally one
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: hundred percent see how being a second kid is, or
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: a third or a fourth is really really difficult.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and they were raised in a wealthy
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: home in New Jersey, guys. And then they moved to Calabasas,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: California in nineteen eighty seven. We all know what Calabasas,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: California is. I mean, we all know who the Kardashians are,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: even if you don't follow them, because I don't. But
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the family then later moved to Beverly Hills. I do know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: nine oh two one ol. But the reason they moved
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: to Beverly Hills from Calabasas is because Loll and Eric
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: were caught breaking into houses in the neighborhood. Guys, I'm
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: going to just tell you, with what was going on
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: in their home, that was a cry for help. You
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: can all disagree with me, but that was a cry
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: for help. Now, I just want to say this next
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: thing is not a shame. I find it very enduring
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and I too can say I had some of this.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Lyle had a very large collection of stuffed animals and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: he was very attached to them, and he still played
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: with them into his late teens. Guys, he was teased
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: by others when they found out. And in high school
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: he had his first girlfriend and he wrote her a
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: letter saying that he loved her, and so did all
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: of his stuffed animals. Guys, that is sweet. That that
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: is a huge red flag because that is who he
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: felt safe with. It was those stuffed animals.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna come up again. I want two things.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I want to say this one thing and then I
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: want to I'll give it an admission, which is gonna make
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: everybody fall on the flour laughing. So this this thing
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: with the stuff animals is gonna come up when we
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: talk about the trial. And I'm sure lyle was like
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: ssuched to have this disgust in court. Probably not at
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that point, but you know, hopefully the prison wasn't watching.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: So I get it. Like sometimes, like in high school,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a girlfriend. I had a girl I
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: was interested in, and you know, it was Valentine's Day
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and I listen, I love I love Papa Bruce Crime
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: so much. But this time he did me dirty and
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: he said, you know what you should do. You should
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: write a letter and get her a Yanni CD. That
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: was a terrible idea. Nobody knew. Listen, y'all, if you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: could see the faces or face then I just got
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I would have.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Loved it if you would have done it. She was
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the wrong female. If she did not appreciate it. She
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: just wasn't the best.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Now she was, obviously, and and and because I was
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a freshman, I was a little pisant freshman. But but
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: it was like one step down from John Tesh like that.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: That even just good this there's nothing.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Wrong with him. I'm just captain said it. Captain. Captain
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: said it best. She said, was this girl a middle
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: aged woman? No, no, listen, do you see what I'm
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: dressed in right listen? I didn't know that that was
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: confusion at that point, but I was just confused forever.
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: There are chapters in my life. I will let you continue.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: So sorry, I know.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to just tell mister Daddy brew crime.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You know what, I can't wait swam drinks. But Eric,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, was said to be soft hearted
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: and guys, he left everything living and he even hated
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: to break a tree branch because he knew it would
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: hurt the tree. So you call it whatever you want.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: But he was said to be very empathetic and he
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: even wrote poetry. And after they broke got caught breaking
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: into those houses, he started doing charity work and started
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: going to a therapist.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I mean like overall, I just like, I
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: want to know who said these things, Like it's it's
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: quite a dramatic sence. The media. The media said these
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: things because they basically turned Eric into a Disney princess,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: singing to birds and weeping over a twig that was
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: broken and helping Nemo find his dad. So you got
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: stuffed animals and then the Disney and like I just right.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Now, but I'm saying those are red flags. But Jose,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: as we can all imagine, hated the soft side of
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Eric and constantly belittled him. He wanted his son to
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: be this awesome tennis player and did not want him.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: He basically wanted him to grow up to be a dick.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Sorry excuse my language, but that's what he wanted. He
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: wanted him to be self absorbed and not care about anything,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: and that's just not the way it was. Now. Kitty
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: was known to have a history of drinking and pil addiction,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and she never stood up for Lyle or Eric against
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: their dad as they were growing up. So I said,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I am going to just say I believe she was
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: a victim of abuse and something happened along the way
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: before the kids come along. But we don't know. Now,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: these boys may have had all of the objects of
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: wealth and everything that money could buy, but guys, let's
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: be honest, they did not have a great childhood. They
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: did not have that loving and accepting childhood. In my opinion, Yeah,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Just don't agree with all of that. Yeah, no, I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: agree with all that. I think. I think the trouble
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: overall is kind of the information who we get it
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: from and who's still trying to keep up that facad.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I mean this, these these are troubled people, and and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and people assume kind of folks with money live this
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: charmed life. But it's a third Eyeblind informed us that
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: it's a semi charmed life, and I agree with that.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Not everything is perfect and so.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just like all the little girls
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: that want to grow up and live in a prince
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and a castle. Do you really want to live in
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: a castle because a castle is nothing but a fishball.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I have one thing to say to those girls, let
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: it go. Let it go.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't go okay, okay, I could sing it all,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: but look at that family photo. And this may be
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: taky of me, but I think in the dictionary if
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: you look at a functional family, they should put that photo.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we don't want to listen, let's not
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: talk J C. Pennies down too much. They had they
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: did some decent portraits.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not talking about the photo. I'm talking about
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: the people in the photo.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: In the photo, yeah, probably.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: But Lady and Gray just brought up what I was
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: getting ready to say. They are not touching. They are
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: standing away from each other. That is like a business
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: photo op that you do as board members and you
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: don't really know each other, so you don't touch. That
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: is not a lie having family photo.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, Alma said they had that seers money. It's just
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: like it. It is very much a there There is
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: no there is no non there's no contact, right, there's
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: none of that physical contact. There's In fact, I would
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: say they're probably four to six inches away from each
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: other for the most part and not touching anybody. And
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you know, it really speaks a lot more more than
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: just them trying to like put on an act, you
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. So yep, all right, So let's
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: kind of talk about the crime. The crime scene. So
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a few days before the murders, there was an ultimatum
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: to Eric, and Jose had told Eric that he was
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: going to be required to spend several nights a week
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: at home while he was attending UCLA. Not great for
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Eric because he was looking forward to meanway, Eric testified
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: that that news shattered his dream of going away and
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: escaping his dad. And five days before the murders, Eric
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: disclosed to Lyle that their father had been sexually abusing
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: him for years. And we're going to talk a little
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: more about what that ended, that timeline looked like in
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: terms of when he said it and things like that later.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just want us to all stop and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: think and imagine how hard that conversation was. Okay, because
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to just be honest. Is someone who's had
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: to have a conversation like that with family members, I'm
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: going to tell you it's gout wrenching and brutal for
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Eric to have to look at his brother and say,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: our dad has been doing this to me, and he's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a male. The stigma of family abuse, you know, essay abuse,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: it's hard for women. I think when you add that
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: male component to it, it is even harder for males
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: to admit that because most people look at them and say, oh,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you're an athlete, you should have been strong enough to
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: stop it, and that adds even more trauma.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely, It's immediately a blame game. And then
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: if you don't think the victim is already blaming themselves,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you're just you're kidding yourself.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: So people stop it, don't do that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So August fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine, Lyle confronted
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Jose about the abuse while Eric was out of the house,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and he told Lyle to go back to Princeton, forget
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: the conversation and not ruin his life over it now.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: When Lyle insisted that the abuse would stop, Jose ominously responded, quote,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: You've made your decision, and Eric's made his, and now
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I have to make mine. After the confrontation, Jose left
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: for a business trip. Now, upon returning, he went to
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Eric's room and furiously screamed at him, and he said,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: I warned you never to tell Lyle. I told you
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: never to tell Lyle. It's all your fault. Now Lyle's
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: going to tell everyone, and I'm not going to let
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: that happen. I can't believe you did this.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Eric testified that this, along with years of threats led
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: him to believe that his parents were going to kill him.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, JT, let's be honest. I think Eric is
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: right to fear that because now that we've been doing
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: true crime for so many years, how many cases have
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: we covered where users take the life of someone because
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: they want to keep their dirty secret. So I am
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: not shaming Eric because I think he was justified. If
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: this would have gone on another couple of weeks, we
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: could be covering a different Menendez case.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think so. I agree with you. Now.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: August eighteenth, nineteen eighty nine, which was just three days later,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: two days before the murders, Lyle's twenty one Eric eighteen
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: attempted to buy firearms. Now. They tried purchasing the guns
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: at multiple stores in LA, but they were told handguns
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: could not be purchased immediately.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm okay with that, guys. I'm a gun owner,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I'm a Texas girl. I think there should be a
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: five day waiting period for all gun sales because if
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: there's somebody who's upset and angry, that's a pretty good
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: cooling off period, and it also keeps you from that
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: impulsive buying.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, did you feel all of the collective digital eyeballs
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: turning towards the Texan Then, is that for you? They
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: were like waiting for permission.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, I was born and raised in Texas, and
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: do not shame me for that.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: There's no shame, right, everybody else does that? Enough from Texas.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: They shame themselves.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: It's fine you at least I'm pink Sparkly and I
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: spread glitter everywhere.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: We love it, Sparkle Puss. So they drove to San Diego. Well,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I mean you said it. I thought I would. They
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: drove to San Diego where a store requested identification. They
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: left that store to avoid suspicion and instead went to
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: a third store. It's like they asked and the person
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: asked for the identification. They went, oood, I didn't know
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: that was a part of it. Then they purchased. So
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: they went to that third store. They purchased two shotguns
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: using false identification and fake addresses. Eric lied to the
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: clerk about a mismatched address, claiming he had recently moved,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: which I mean that's quick thinking on his part. Now,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: after the purchase, they drove back to la and they
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: attempted to practice shooting fire range actually turned them away
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: for trying to use shotguns. They were told that their
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: bird shot ammunition was ineffective for stopping a person fascinating,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: so they decided to purchase buckshot ammunition, which was designed
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: for maximum lethality. Now, the next day, the day before
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: the murders, the family went on a planned fishing trip. Now,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: despite allegedly fearing their parents, Eric and Lyle left their
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: new shotguns at home as they were too large to conceal.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: As you know, that is the brothers had little interaction
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: with their parents during the trip that night. Correct, unless
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: they're a person with bird bones, absolutely, they're also really
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: hard to hit because you just have to as they're
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: flying by, you got to kind of lead them. And
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: then there's always that dog that's getting in the way
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: going So for those of you who enjoy a little okay,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So they left him at home. They had very little
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: interaction with their parents during the trip, which is really
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: awkward on a boat. I'm sure that night actually Jose
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: pounded on Eric's bedroom door. Eric refused to open it
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: because he feared his father. Now, on August twentieth, the
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: day of the murders, in the morning, Lyle called his
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: friend Perry Berman and made plans to meet at the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Taste of La Food festival, which sounds yummy. I'm obviously hungry.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Lyle told Berman that they would see Batman first and
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: then meet up, but they never went to the movie
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: or the festival, which is sad because I'm pretty sure
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that that was Michael Keaton's Batman with Jack Nicholson as
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: the Joker, and I'm pretty sure that's one of the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: best of all time. That's not the point.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: So the fact that you know that is making me
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: question so many things right now.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Listen, I told you, like the tiebreaker for the quiz
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: for My Ship on a Stick, which still sits here,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: was the one of the first breakthrough movies of DreamWorks,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: and I knew the year.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: So.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I can't remember when we're recording, but I can remember that.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I can't remember that either.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: So so in terms of the evening confrontation, Lyle argued
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: with jose and Kitty about their plans to go out.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Jose told Eric to go to his room, which Eric
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: interpreted as a precursor to abuse. And I'm gonna be
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: honest with you, and I didn't write this down, but
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that that's what he thought, because how
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: many times must that have happened, you know, over you know,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Eric's lifetime. Eric hesitated, and then he overheard Lyle say,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: you're not going to touch Eric. You're not going to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: touch my little brother. You're never going to touch him again.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Jose and Kitty then went into the den closed all
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the doors.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: So so was Kitty standing there when Lyle told his dad,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: You're never going to touch my little brother again. Because
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: when we say they went into the den and closed
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: the door, was she standing there and heard that and
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: didn't protect her kids?
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Or do we know? I don't remember. It's not a
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: matter of whether we know or not. I don't. I
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: don't remember. I could see it happening in two ways.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: You know, that whole confrontation happens, and then she walks
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: in and he decides to remove her from that situation,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: so they go into the den and close the doors.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: But I also can see that totally happening to where
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: she was there, and I'll learn a little bit later
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: on that that might not have made a difference to her.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: So in terms of the final decision that night, Eric
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: told Lyle, I'm not going to my room tonight. I
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: can't let him come into my room. I can't let
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: this happen. And Lyle, who was pale and shaking, told Eric,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: it's happening now. They were waiting for me to get home,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: and it's happening now. They were. Eric retrieved his shotgun
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: from his bedroom closet. He went to the car. He
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: removed the ineffective bird shot and he loaded it with buckshot.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Lyle joined Eric at the car and also loaded his shotgun. Now,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: around ten PM, Jose and Kitty were unarmed in the den.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: They were watching television and eating. Eric and Lyle burst
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: into the den and fired between thirteen teen shotgun blasts. Now,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: we're gonna show you some photos. I promise you that
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: there are no This is not overtly. We are not
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: sensationalizing this in any way, shape or form. If there
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: is anything else in addition to the scene, it's blurred,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: and we'll probably we'll probably put up that. We'll do
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: a warning about that a little later too. But Eric
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: testified that he immediately started shooting upon entering, without stopping
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: to assess the scene. Now, after the initial round of gunfire,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the brothers left the house. They went to the car
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and Lyle reloaded. The final shot, which was apparently fired
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: while Kitty was still alive, was done while the muzzle
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: of the shotgun was in contact with her left cheek.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Jose also suffered a contact gunshot wound to the head.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Jose in total suffered four gunshot wounds, while Kitty was
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: shot nine times. Jose's legs sustained gunshot wounds inflicted post mortem.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Both parents die, as you can imagine, died at the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: scene for multiple gunshot wounds. Detective Dan Stewart, which I
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: do want to say, Detective Dan is just it's the
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: it's in a great name for a detective. But Detective
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Dan Stewart a retired huh.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I said, it is a great name for a detective.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: It's very close to Lieutenant Dan ice Cream. That's what
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I think of, all right. So he Dan was a
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: retired Beverly Hills police detective. And you can see the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: quote here. I've seen a lot of homicides, but nothing
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: quite that brutal. Blood flesh, skulls. It would be hard
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: to describe, especially Jose, as resembling a human that you
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: would recognize. That's how bad it was. And this was
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: not a it's not a huge I mean it's it's
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: it's a big area. But but people tend to no
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: people and people knew Jose and I'm sure that that
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: was quite a shock to see him that way. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Now, the crime scene was horrific and it was brutal,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: But I have to say, back when it happened and
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: they released the photos, all I can remember thinking was
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: how angry and hurt those boys had to have been
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to do that, so all of that built up in
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: them and feeling that that was the only way they
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: could survive was to kill their parents.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I I you know, obviously I'm going to show
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: my non age, but that's not to make anybody feel bad.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: But the thing is is like if I was twenty
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: years older than I was at the time, I just wonder,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: like I wonder how I would have felt about it
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: if I was like twenty two, you know, at that
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: point in the eight in the late eighties. There's a
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: lot of things that I think about with this case,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and that is you know, one of those things is
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: what the hell would I have thought about all of this?
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you think about it, we watch TV shows,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: of course those are drama where a girl has been kidnapped,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: chained up and abused and she breaks free and we
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: all are rooting for her to beat the hell out
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: of the person who took her captive and did that
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: to her. We are cheering her on to release all
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: of that. You just need to stop and think. This
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: is kind of the same thing. They released all of
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: that on it. And I think, once you start, how
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: do you stop? Just like when you're in an argument
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: with somebody and you start screaming, it's kind of hard
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: to stop and roll yourself back, or at least it
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: is for me.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: And and I know, I know, we'll talk about this later,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: But they weren't. They weren't stupid. They were smart kids.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: They were smart kids. Whether whether they did well in
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: school or not, there's two there's multiple types of smarts.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: They were smart kids. And I truly, I truly think
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: that you know, if if if you said none of
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: the abuse happened, and you said they just wanted the money,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I think that they're way smarter than that, right than
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: to do that for that purpose, right, it certainly good
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: reason when they know eventually or somehow they could get it.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: I believe it would have been quick, down and dirty
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: and easy, one shot out of there if you wanted
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: the money. Let's just be honest.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been mean. Yes, I mean the
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: one shot thing would have been the perfect mafia situation
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: in shot out much. I mean the overkill was very personal.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, on that evening of August eighteenth, Lyle called
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: nine one one and reported that someone killed us parents.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: And we do have the phone call to listen to.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: But I want to advise everyone. It is being played
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: over video footage of the crime scene, but the bodies
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: are blurred out.
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: What's the problem. So what's the problem.
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: What's the problem?
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: As I got.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: The people.
• 55:58
  Speaker 7: When they shot still not when they shot that, if.
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: They were shocked, I'm gonna I want whatever that I
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: was a person I was trying to get further editing
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: at the science. If the persons still there, what happened?
• 56:29
  Speaker 6: We have you dal what happened? Shot? Boo? Wait, look
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: at you he came home and from grew shot. Yeah,
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: you know, if they're still in the half the people
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: that did the shooting. Yeah, okay, let me talk to Eric.
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: Let me let me pose the person that he was
• 56:55
  Speaker 6: shot my rather mom and dad. Okay, hold on a checkond, Okay,
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: we're on the ambulance.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: It is brutal every time I listen to it, And
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I'm going to just say, I've heard so many people
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: say that they were acting. Yes, they were to some degree,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: but I also think a lot of them true emotions
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: came out.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Ye can I say? I just I'm thinking about it,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know if they so much
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: were acting as people misinterpreted what they had intended. Like
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I think I quite honestly, And I've listened to that
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: a couple of times. Obviously we all have, but there's
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: a piece of me that's like that almost sounds like
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: emotional relief, like that's over. They probably also weren't aware
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: of the amount of damage that a shotgun could do
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: as well, if they'd never shot one or never really
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: had any reason to. But for the most part, and
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: my main point is, it sounds almost like an emotional
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: release from relief that something was over. And I think
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that as people who are listening to that saying that
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: they're acting, I think it's them misinterpreting that emotion. I
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: think that's a true and warranted emotion. I just think
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: it's being misattributed to.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: I agree, that's the crazy to say it. I also
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: think it was true emotions, but I also think they
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: felt a lot of guilt because they did love their parents.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's complicated. People don't like complicated.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: No, we don't.
• 58:49
  Speaker 8: Now.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: The police at that time had several theories and potential suspects,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: because let's just be honest, there was a lot of
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: people who did not like jose Menindetz. Okay, he was
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: not known to be a very nice person. So that
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: leads you to have a very a very large suspect
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: pull right now. Detective Zolar mentioned to his partner, he goes,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I wonder if the brothers killed their parents, And his
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: partner said what, and he goes, they almost seem too polite, right,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: So I find that interesting because that's very intuitive, you know.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's sorry. There are certain things like
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about as we're talking about this, and I'm like,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: there's also this era of they've been putting on a
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: face and a mask for so long that it just
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: hasn't dawned that they don't have to do that, right,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: and so that role that they're playing, they're still playing,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: and it's like a method actor who can't get out
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: of a role like Keith Ledger and the Joker, you know, yeah,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: and he didn't. Yeah, we can talk about that another time,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: but but yeah, I mean I think that that is
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: seriously some of this stuff that confuses people is because
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: they don't understand. Irving Goffman has an entire theory of
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: in front stage and backstage and the masks we wear
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and the roles we play and things like that, and
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: it's very interesting to me as a communications person. But
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: they were always front stage, and when they were backstage
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: they were abused or mistreated. So they didn't have a backstage,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: so they were always front of stage and it is
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: impossible to remove a mask when it is just stitched in.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Now, the police thought maybe the mob was involved, Okay,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: so Lyle and Eric moved to a hotel and hired bodyguards,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm an just say they probably felt safe having
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: those bodyguards even though they knew the mob wasn't coming
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: after them, let's be honest. Now, it took months before
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: the police started looking at the brothers, and it has
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: been said by a lot of people in the media
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: that due to police failures, the brothers were not looked
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: into earlier. I mean, I think we are always too
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: quick with twenty twenty to come back and give opinions,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: you know, on that. But when Erica Miles started spending
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: excessive amounts of money, the police started truly suspecting the
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: brothers were involved. Okay, I mean three days after the murders,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: the boys spent fifteen thousand dollars on three Rolex watches.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Those had to have been used. Ll Ale bought a
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: sixty four thousand dollars gun metal gray Push nine eleven
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: career and Eric was more sensible and bought a brand
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: new Jeep Wrangler. Shows you the opposite ends of the spectrum.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Right, I don't know, I don't know if that's sensible,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: but all right, i'd.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Be compared to a Porsche Current. Yeah, But anyway, so
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Lyle bought a restaurant named Chucks in Princeton, Princeton, New Jersey,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: for five hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Sadly, he was
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: not a great businessman and he ran it into the ground.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: But I don't say, but I mean, my first thought
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: is at least he spent money on something he thought
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: would bring in money and was an investment. Okay, I'm
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: just gonna say that. Now, Eric spent sixty thousand dollars
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: on a personal trainer to help him become a pro
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: tennis player. And guys, I'm going to just say that's
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: pretty check cheap. I mean, I guess I'm thinking about
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: in today's time. I saw a thing recently about a
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: tennis player and they said it was like one hundred
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and fifty thousand a year.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: So well, that's that's the equivalent to one hundred and
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: fifty two thousand this year.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Now. Lyle loved shopping and died it often. On one occasion,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: he picked up twenty four thousand dollars in stereo equipment.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, guys, seriously, it's a stereo. Just get a
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: moon box. But anyway, another time, you know what, And
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: I was like another time, Nope, forty thousand dollars in
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: close that one I could understand a little bit more,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: but not really.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: By the end of it all, Nope.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: He had racked up ninety thousand dollars on his father's
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: American Express card. My question there is why wasn't the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: card closed automatically upon death.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Here's well, I don't know, but I don't like did
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: the pants walk for him?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Because I know that's what I was like, that's a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: lot of money. Unless you're buying address to go to
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: a gala that you're gonna wear once and then resell it.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money for clothes. That's just a
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: lot of money.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Also, and I know that this is this is your
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: kind of air. You did a lot of work on
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: this one, but like nineteen eighty nine, they're still like
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: charge it. Nothing was digital, right, so nothing could be
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: stopped right away. Yeah, and the.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Boys also went on several expensive vacations and managed to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: rack up thousands of dollars in bills, partying with friends,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: ordering room service and guys, that's nineteen eighty nine. And
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: we're gonna say, I do not do gas math. But
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: like JT just said, one hundred and fifty that, yeah,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: that's a lot of flipping money.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: That that is a throwback, ma'am. And I appreciate it.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: But I listen, I had a hard enough time upgrading
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: missus Bruce Crime's ring on the cruise after ten years
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: of marriage. That's insane. But I did, I did. I did,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: That's the important part.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: I did, Okay, But I don't want to defend the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: boys shopping spree because they were manic and shopping, but
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: I wanted to share that retail therapy is truly a thing.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: It is recognized in the mental health world. I mean,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: let's just be honest. What female me has it gone
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: shopping and participated in retail therapy when they're upset with
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: the other half? Yes, in previous marriages, Yes, I did, Yes,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I did. I mean retail therapy it's a mood booster.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: It may be temporary, but it provides a sense of control. Okay,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: but that'll kill you, and it's illegal. It also provides
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: a sense of control, like I said, and it gives
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: you a distraction and it lets you feel accomplished. Now,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist. I do not play one on TV.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: But I have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: in therapy, and I can say that retail therapy does
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: help because I mean, it's like a glass of wine.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: It's just a short term solution, though, I mean, because
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: you get you can get addicted to that feeling.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: I guess it's a glass of wine is a short
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: term solution unless you just keep the party going.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: But I'm too old that one glass leads to another
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: another another. Okay, this is so random, but Belle again
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: said she just bought Clinique Black Cunning lipstick yesterday. I
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: just got mine in last week and I love it.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. Ken I you tell that we are
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: looking for anything to distract us for just a quick break.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Guys, let's just go. So police finally did find a
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: link between the guns used and the brothers. Police discovered
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: that Lyle used his roommate stolen ID card to purchase
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: the guns. And please find out that Lyle hired a
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: computer guide to delete all of Kitty's files on her computer. Guys,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: that was so that the older version of the Will
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: or Jose would be gone, or know that the older
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: one would be there and be the only Will, the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: new one would not be there.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: One did Lyle's roommate look the same as Lyle? I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: don't think he did, so somebody didn't look at a picture.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: And two is it possible? And I don't know if
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: we've actually I don't know if we talked about this,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: But is it possible because I didn't read anything about
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: it that the computer guy they hired to get rid
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: of all of her files in order to have that
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: will Is it possible they also deleted a bunch of
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: stuff off a kiddies's computer. They could have gone to
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: proving what they.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: Were probably probably And when you talk about the idea.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know how. We're talking megabytes not gigs.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: But you know, I'm going to admit this because I'm
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: going to guess the statche of limitations is out. So
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty seven, one of my friends was
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: twenty one. She was fIF two, blonde hair and blue eyes.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: I went down to the DMV and said I lost
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: my license. They took my picture and gave me a
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: new license, but I had given them her name.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: This was This was nineteen eighty seven.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. So I'm going to just say I know
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that we don't you be putting that in there. Don't
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: you be putting that in there? But I did it
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: because I needed to be able to take drinks into
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: the Stomp and to be able to go to Club
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: sixty four hundred. Okay, let's just move on. Because I
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: did it. Now come at me because maybe a night
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: in jail wouldn't be so bad. I am sure somebody
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: on this podcast would help get me out of jail.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Hopefully I don't know you inspired her because she was
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: too good at her job.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: So well double h wouldn't be he'd be like, yeah, girl,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: don't be calling me to get you out of jail.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: So now for you, my friend Eric called his therapist
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to just call him Mozelle. And he
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: started seeing this therapist after breaking into the houses. So
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Azelle was helping him. But he asked to go for
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: a walk, which I think was smart because after walking
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: for a bit, Eric blurted out, we did it, okay.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: And the reason I think he wanted to go for
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: a walk is because he was worried about somebody listening.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: But that could just be me living in my true
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: crime brain. But Eric then went on to tell Azelle
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: how they planned the murder and that they felt it
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: was necessary to escape their parents. Now Lyle showed up
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: and joined in, and the pair did confess okay. Ozelle
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: set it up to tape the brothers in the future sessions,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: and he held onto those tapes to protect himself, or
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: so he said. Anyway, and I think we have some
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: of that audio.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: Other than my mother or were the two people that
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: a lot of And that's that doesn't matter what they
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: were all with the actually where were the defensive? Well,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: I I be able to the time in my mind
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: before this rather side where I had no choice or
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: taken the uh, because I look back on it and
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: we had when people were working. I'm not regretted, not
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: at that point. Whatever. Good Now it was love, yeah,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: almost no choice to do what they do and hacking
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: myself to do it, forging about people will do it
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: when they Saturday of the life could have been and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: what you know, it was something that you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: eventually we had to happen.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I just hopped back in a night court mode.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Judged totally sleeping.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: So guys, I mean I'm going to just Zell. I mean,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: he didn't do it to protect himself. But Azelle was
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: having an affair, okay in his little mistress name was
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: Judelon's smythe and I say this often. There is nothing
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: like a scorned woman. Okay. So after he dumped her
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: like a hot potato, she went to police and told
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: them that her ex Ozelle, was Eric's therapist, and that
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Eric had confessed during a session. Why are you laughing
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: at me?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 9: Now?
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing. I'm listen. With
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: a name like Judelon, you have like two career options.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: You could be a mysterious fortune teller or you could
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: be someone who has to be involved in a high
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: profile true crime case. It's either that or playing the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: role of an eccentric aunt who insists her cat is
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: her legal heir. It's one of those three. There is
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: no four, no two. It is three three, sir, So
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: just luck, I guess, just luck.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just wonder what her parents were thinking.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know, But anyway, I'm sorry. Men, keep having
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: affairs and telling your mistresses all of your dirty secrets,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: because when you dump them, guess what, they are gonna
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: share the deats And I'm here for it. Except in
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: this case, Yeah, you know. I mean she.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: She does not have the face of a woman who
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: puts up with shit. I'm just gonna throw that out there.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: She has the bangs, she has the short shoulder, She
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: ain't messing a fuck around.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna say that doctor Ozell can go f himself,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: and that's my opinion on him, and I shared someone
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: else's thoughts, but I totally concur Okay, now.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: He should have fed himself and he wouldn't be in
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: this fucking position.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: I mean he shouldn't. I mean, I'm going to just say,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: for somebody who spent a lot of time in therapy,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: if I ever found out my therapist went home and
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: used my name and told their significant oh my god,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: I just saw putting the hip. Second comment, I.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Appreciate jokes, and I also appreciate that you spelled hippocorrectly.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: I yeah, but I'm sorry. That is against the rules.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: And that's why we go to therapy for a safe space. Now,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you go home and you say, hey,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: I had a patient they were talking about a rough
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: time they went through with their parents and they regret it,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I'd be okay with that, But given out the deets
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: is just wrong. And I think someone asked if he
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: lost his license. He did lose his license to practice
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: in California. Now he works with women to help improve
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: their sex life. And if you want his website, let
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: me know and I will be happy to send it
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 9: What but what.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: Does he say you need to get thicker glasses, hi
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: your hairline or a scornier face. Because I think he
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: confused somebody by saying you have a face of scorn,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: and he heard you have the face for porn, and
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: it just.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're doing that because we're getting into the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: heavy stuff. March eighth, nineteen ninety, Lyle was arrested while
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: out driving to lunch with some friends. Now Eric was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: playing in a tennis turn in Israel and apparently he
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: was doing very well, but he was arrested on March eleventh,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety upon his return to la Both were taken
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: into custody without incident. They did not act like fools,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: They didn't try to do anything stupid. They went willingly.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know this is this is the
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: point in which we're going to flop into the trial
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: and some of the strategies in the trial and kind
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: of what goes on in the trial, and I'm going
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: to try and make it interesting. I know sometimes trials
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: for some folks can be snoozefest, but this was not one,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: and so hopefully this summary is not either. Before the
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: game will dismute you the first time. Fair, that's fair.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: I'll let you do it, for sure. I'd want to
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: stop hearing myself too produce.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: A terror might slap me, but hey, go ahead.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, before the gavel. Uh, everybody was saying no.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: The brothers spent three years in the Los Angeles County
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Men's Jail waiting for their trials to begin. They were
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: segregated from other prisoners and housed in separate cells in
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: the jail seven thousand sections. Now I look this up
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: and it might have been different then, but it looks
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: like it's the medical section. However, the section also housed
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: high profile inmates like Richard Ramirez and oj Simpson.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 10: Ramirez is one of the IP lists. Yes, exactly, yeah, sorry,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 10: what you know?
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: What's really funny looking at that picture of Richard Ramirez,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: it looks like he's got like the devil and an
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: angel on either shoulder. I just don't know which ones which,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: so's tossing that out there in his case, probably both devils. Anyway,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: they ate meals in their cell, and they had an
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: exercise period for one hour, three times a week, which
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: is literally nothing. So for Eric. The first buse of
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: his confinement, Eric was suicidal, not surprising. He received xanax
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: for that. He was visited by his former girlfriend Janis,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: who thought Eric was growing up and becoming a model prisoner.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Jannas said, though that Lyle was considered a problem inmate.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: He was stealing food from another inmate on a special diet.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: He monopolized the phone on his cell block. A priest
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: actually visited Eric during his hut.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: What I'm sorry. I know I shouldn't interrupt, but okay,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: can you imagine the food in prison, and if there
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: is somebody on a special diet that maybe got a
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: true banana instead of gruel, I am gonna just step
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: up and say I would probably have stolen the banana too.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not risking whole time for a banana, That's all
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: I thought, I mean, I just wanted to get that outfit.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean like ten points for creative, because if
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: you're segregated from everybody else, I don't know how the
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: hell you're getting somebody else's food.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: So I mean I thought that too, but I just
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: went with it.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, a priest did visit Eric. During this time,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: Eric began to reveal for the first time publicly, or
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: just somebody else outside the family other than Yeah, the
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: supposed traumas that he suffered during his childhood. Now, from
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: those conversations, the foundation of was laid for the brother's defense,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: so that was Eric before the gavill Ile spent a
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: lot of time on the phone. Early on, he spoke
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: to the manager of mister Buffalo's often, which caused the
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: other prisoner to complain about the number and length of
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: his calls. Sheriff's deputies found Lyle's ankle chains almost cut through,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: so they conducted a search of the brother cells. Sheriff's
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: deputies found Lyle sorry. They found a seventeen page letter
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: from Lyle to Eric, along with some notes in Eric's cell.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: In the letter, Lyle wrote, only you and I know
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: the truth. Only you and I know the secrets of
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: our famili's past. I do not look forward to broadcasting
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: them around the country. I pray that it never has
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: to happen. If it were not for you, I doubt
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I would even try for manslaughter. I would rather try
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: to escape or die. I struggle with my belief that
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: men take responsibility for their actions. Pleading abuse is not
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: taking responsibility. So Lyle tells Eric in his letter that
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: he would ever testify against him. He gives Eric advice
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: that Lyle believes Jose would have given him, which is interesting.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Lyle wrote quote. I am not an ordinary person. I
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: do not see things in terms of manslaughter and life terms.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: I see only win, lose, honor, and dishonor Dad is
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: watching and I will not disappoint him a second time,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: or Mom by giving up and having their deaths be
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: in vain now. The notes described plans to travel to
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: South America and then to the Middle East, and there
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: was a drawing of a building with stairwells and doors.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Deputies could not match it though to courthouses that Lyle
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: had been in, so there was no connection there. I
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: can't imagine being that person who has to be like, oh,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: look at this, now you need to go connect it
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: with what starewell is this?
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: But they didn't have Google Image back then, so you
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: couldn't take a picture of it and just do her
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: first Google search.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: No, he hopped on his bicycle. I'll a wicked witch
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: and no, no, no, no no no no no no
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: no no, and had to figure it out all right.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: So December eighth, nineteen ninety two, there was the indictment.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles County Grand Jury indicted the brothers on murder charges.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: There were two special circumstances that were attached, making them
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: eligible for the death penalty, and those were a multimal
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: murder had occurred as the brothers were lying in wait,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: and a third special circumstance, sorry, it was a multiple
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: murder had occurred the brothers were lying in wait. There
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: was a third. There's a third. There's a third special circumstance,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: murder for financial gain that was thrown out by the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: grand jury, which is interesting because it was utilized a
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: lot by the prosecution. So here we are pre trial.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: From arrest until right before the trial started, Leslie Abramson
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: and Jill Lansing didn't reveal what their defense strategy would be.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: It's a good move, the prosecution thought. The defense, you know,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: it's such a good move, knowing that la was so
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: hungry for a guilty verdict. It was so smart of
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: them not to just it was. It was a good move.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: The prosecution thought the defense would gamble that they didn't
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: have enough evidence to prove they committed the murders. But
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: it turns out on June ninth, nineteen ninety three, in
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: a pre trial hearing, Abramson said that they were going
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: to admit that the brothers murdered their parents, to which
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: the prosecution said, oh, we don't have anything else. No,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: but they so they were gonna they were gonna prove
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: that it was jose and Kitty, not Lyle and Eric
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: who should be accountable for why the murders were committed.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Which that's that's a hard thing to swing. That's that's
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: a dangerous way to swing that. But there was a
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: reason they would argue that Eric and Lyle were instilled
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: with fear over a lengthy period of time, like going
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: back years and Abramson, Abramson and Lancing were going to
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: take the spoiled kids and portray them as victims of
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: child abuse. Eric was considering becoming a professional tennis player,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: so tall order and and and by that, I want
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: I just want to clarify what I mean by that
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: is their image and their image in the media was
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: spoiled brats. They murdered their parents, they like, spend a
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: bunch of money, Yeah, Rolex's Porsche, et cetera. They were
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: going to take that, flip it on its head. And
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: while they utilized the real stuff like uh, they utilized
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: what was happening. So so this there were there weren't
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: people that the brothers complained two about this, This wasn't
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: very public, and I had initially written that there weren't
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: any photos, but as you know, yours truly can be incorrect.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: I have a slew of people to let me know
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: just in case the reality is there were photos. There
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: were definitely inappropriate pictures of them, and I did not
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: know this. There were definitely inappropriate pictures of them in
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: all kinds of situations, clothed, unclothed, more Now, while they
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: were this was all while they were under ten years old.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: There was also a time that Eric was taken to
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: a doctor at a very young age and there was
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: oral bruising consistent with activities of that nature. So let's
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: take a quick look at this video from the trial.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: You don't see anything inappropriate, but it does explain that
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just jose as Kitty was complicit and complacent
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: in the whole situation. So we'll take a listen to
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: this video.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 11: These photographs were found in this envelope. This envelope has
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 11: the handwriting of his mother, Mary Louise Menendez, and she
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 11: had a beautiful handwriting. She was a school teacher and
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 11: she wrote Eric's birthday November nineteen seventy six, and inside.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: This envelope were the original small Prince.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 12: Now, I think almost as amazing as the fact that
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 12: these pictures were taken, is that these pictures were saved.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 12: You will see the envelope that they came in, and
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 12: you will see the negatives, and you will see the
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 12: original small photos, and you will see Kitty Menendez's handwriting
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 12: that was on the envelope these photos were in, which
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 12: says Eric's birthday November nineteen seventy six.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: She saw these photographs and she kept them. Now, I
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: am that type of person just so people want to
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: know what. They want to know what the photographs are of,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: because I did look it is that they're going to
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: tell you area focused in on in their heads are
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: cut off. And I'm going to say, as a mom
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: of two boys, I cannot tell you a reason that
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: you would have back unless they got bit by a spider,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: a snake, a dog.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: There's not a reason, a reaction, something medical, There's.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: No you don't put their birthday. I mean it just
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: I'm say that dis horrifies.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 13: That's weird.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: It's like another It's it's not just being complicit, it's
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: a whole other level of evil to me. So they
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: were going to have to reconstruct specific incidents of abuse
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: that involved the two brothers, and the prosecution was going
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: to have to prove it to be blowney or malarkey
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: if you like that. Instead, Abramson and Lansing did consult
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: with Paul Moan. Is it Monez? Probably know it's Mones, Mones. Wow,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: that is a that's a fancy fellow right there. Look
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: at that dang, Look at that jaw line. He was
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: a lawyer and a children's rights advocate. He did write
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: when a Child Kills Abused Children who kill their parents
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: had on the nose, but it provided legal defense strategies
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: for children accused of killing their parents. His research suggested
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: that children who kill their parents one are typically peaceful individuals.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: They have secretive, controlling parents, They suffer prolonged abuse before
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: reacting violently. They exhibit overkill, which is excessive violence in
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: the crime. And he blamed the parents for their own murders.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: So I agree with everything he said up until he
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: said the parents are to blame for their own murders.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, do I mean there are a lot of
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: shitty parents and kids. We can't go around killing our parents,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: But you don't blame them. They deserved something, maybe life
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: in prison or something, but they didn't deserve to be
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: murdered in that way. I think as a society we
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: need to find a way to set up a better
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: system for protecting our kids, and the public needs to
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: stop being judgmental in saying, oh, you were an athlete,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: you would have been strong enough. Why didn't you defend yourself?
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you leave You were twenty one, you were nineteen,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: You could have just left home. They don't understand the
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: psychological abuse and the psychological prison you're in. So yeah,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: don't buy that last one.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: Sorry, that's fair, I mean.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 9: So.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: In terms of the prosecution stance on the death penalty,
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Pam Bosnich Will was ambivalent about seeking the death penalty,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: but Lester Curiama saw the brothers as cold blooded killers
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: and he supported it. Abramson never pursued a poleague bargain.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Now hopping in after all that, now we're going to
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: hop into trial one. The trial was held at the
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: La County Superior Court in Van Nuys. Judge Stanley Weisberg
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: presided over the trial. Judge Weisberg, if you know kind
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: of some of legal history and trials and things like that,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: Judge Weisberg, I need to fix that. Let's fix that. Okay,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: there we go. Yes, Judge Weisberg actually presided over the
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: Rodney King trial in suburban Semi Valley in nineteen ninety two,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: and that trial resulted in the deadly LA riots. So
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: that's definitely something to you know, he's got that under
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: his belt. I can't say I'd be too enthusiastic about
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: having that judge on the bench in front of me.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: But here we are. Well.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: Got to remember the jury chooses the verdict, not the judge.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: No, okay, correct, But not everybody can be Judge Levin's
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: where they don't have much of an impact in a case.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Some people like to have an impact in cases. Also,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: he was one hundred percent falling asleep in that other
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: radioways saw, So I have about as much patience as
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: he has hair. The judge ruled that the cases of
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Lyle and Eric Menendez would be tried together merely because
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: of time, cost and convenience, which eh, and I say eh,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: because while he said that, he also said that they
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: were gonna have two separate juries. He said that if
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: they didn't, there was gonna be a duplication of witnesses
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: and arguments, and why hear the same thing all over again,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: But they're going to have two separate juries. Not sure
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: exactly what the point is there, but it meant that
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: if there was evidence that pertained only to Lyle, Eric's
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: jury was going to be excluded and vice versa, which
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: seems a lot more complicated than having two trials.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: I'm on the fence with that one, just so we
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: all know, because part of me is like, they each
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: deserved their own trial, but they did commit it together,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: they planned together, they were brothers. So but I have
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: to say, I've always wondered if this trial being held
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: so close to Rodney King and the burning down of
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: the city, if that had anything to do with it.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: But the verdict, I mean, we don't know.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: It's and then their final kind of wonder because they
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: their first trial was after Rodney King. Their second trial
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: went on at the same time as OJ, but they
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: were actually found guilty after OJ was found innocent. There
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: was such an uproar about OJ being innocent. Did that
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: play into them being found guilty that time? But the
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: first time was a mistrial, I mean, and I could
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: be howd up on my dates, But I just think
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: there was so much going on in LA that there
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: was just a lot.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: And you also have to think, like it who was
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: on the jury, what was the jury makeup? And where
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: they're trying to f the judge over? You know what
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean? Like for that Rodney King's that you eat
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: like you just and it doesn't matter you know what
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: race they are, what age they were, whether they were
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: male or female, whatever, it doesn't matter if they didn't
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: agree with the judge and you found a jury with
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: the ball didn't agree with the judge. For Rodney King,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: are they trying to have him over in this trial
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: even though he's not really a central part, do you
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: know what I mean?
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And I will say that I was just corrected
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: by our producer that OJ's trial was well over.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: Before then, So you know what, we are only as
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: good as.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: THEA oh wait, the Menendez trial was over before OJ.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: I've got it backwards. It's been a long day and
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: I need more wine. But I just think Rodney King
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: everything going in LA, just because OJ's trial hadn't happened yet,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: everybody in America was watching everything that went on with
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: that I just think there was so much stuff going on.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and and so this first trial, Judge Weisberg
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: actually allowed Court TV to televise the trial due to
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: the high public interest, which is still available to watch
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: on Court TV's website. So go free. It is long,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: very long. Uh the defense strategy. In terms of the
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: defense strategy, they the lawyers dressed Eric and Lyle in
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: youthful attire. It's not helping me out any really, to
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: be honest with you, it's got to be that perfectly
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: quaffed hair.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, last, I'm not quite suane the defense attorneys because
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: look at Jody Ari's she was dressed like a schoolmarm.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Oh oh Arius that listen. Half of Arius is actually
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: like ninety percent of Areas's defense was directed by her.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying you always try to. I think that
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: is in defense attorneys school one oh one, make your
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: defendants look sweet and innocent. Uh. Oh, I just got
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: in trouble by Captain for bringing up chi ire.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: You've drawn the ire of listen. It was a long time.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: It was another life ago. We spent a very long
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: time on Jodi Hare.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: We did, but I learned gas math and I am
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: proud that I learned gas math. Gas went at forty
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: nine sets here in Austin in overnight, So I know gas.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: That's about the only good thing we got out of
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: that whole situation, all right. So they dressed them up
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: to make them appear like children, not adults. They appeared
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: less arrogant, more mature.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: Eric.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: Eric actually looked kind of unhealthy, a little pale, gaunt.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: Lyle continued to wear Okay, so this will surprise everybody,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: or everybody already knows this. I think everybody already knows this.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: But Lyle continued to wear a hair piece during the trial.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Now a hair piece, you say, what's the story with that?
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: I did? Well, you know, since so much has come
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: out about the Menendez brothers, especially recently, it's very hard
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: to find the true story of all of this stuff
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: because they connect it with the movie. And so after Lyle,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Lyle and Kitty had a fight at one point, and
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: Lyle ran off because Kitty actually ripped off the hair
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: piece he had on. This was not this was a
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: fight into that. Now, the hair piece, just to give
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: you an idea, required him to shave where the piece
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: covered it, shaved his head, and they used a high
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: strength glue to put it on so that it did
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: not come off. That makes sense, But there were multiple
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: sources that pretty much called it a scalping. And and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: so that's that's not much that that hurt, like you
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: really had to get there. And also like that's you
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: think about it.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: You have to use a special glue for those people
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: who don't know, like people who lose their hair when
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: they go through chemo treatments, you use a glue to
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: put it on because it's so windy and humid. If
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: somebody rips that off of you, it will pull that
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: skin off. So don't do that, oh Barry, Yeah.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: So like this is the thing. This is what that
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: tells me. That tells me one one, that's what you
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: have to do. But two, that is how badly they
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to keep this a secret.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: Uh now, I'm going to just stop you there. It's
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: not necessarily a secret. I think that if we stop
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: and think about society, especially back then and still today,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: you do business and talk to people who look a
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: certain way. Bald heads were not in style back then.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: Now we see a beautiful bald head and we think
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: it's pretty, But back then I'm not as much. I
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: can't imagine Jose wanting his twenty one year old son
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: running around bald.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Well. Here's the thing, he was nineteen, that he was
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: twenty one, nineteen, that general vicinity of age, and I
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: totally agree with you, right, there is a certain look
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: you that you need to have or you need to
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: put forward at that time. However, the reason why I
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: said they wanted to keep it so close knit and
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: tight is because not even not even Eric knew about this.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: And so afterwards Eric found him and said, I'm sad
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: we're not a family. I never knew about your hair.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: We have so many secrets. And at that point that
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: was the lynchpin for Eric to open up about being molested,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: and Lyle in return, yeah, offered to have Eric live
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: with him at Princeton, but Lyle was suspended before that
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: could happen.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: So that was a catalyst that just kind of broke
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: down some barrier walls for them.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, that was a big thing by Kitty doing that.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: It's it's you know how I said earlier with Goffman
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: and masks, it's really hard to remove a mask that
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: is like stitched on, that was stitched on and by
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: ripping that off. Psychologically it almost was like, all right, well,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: I've got nothing else to hide, so let me go.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and just put it all out there.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: And so at that point it really was like the
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: lynchpin agreed. No, you know, all of this stuff kind
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: of comes out in court. It's Abernson the whole time
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: acted as a protective figure to Eric. The defense used.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: So the defense used the E. Sue Blooms thirty four
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: item checklist for incest survivors. Now, this is a checklist
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: that is not necessarily legally accepted, but it is accepted
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: in certain certain you know, for proving certain things. Eric
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: matched the items related to childhood trauma, like fear of
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: sleeping alone, blocking memories, carrying a secret and stealing and
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: lyle matched items like dissociation, rigid thought control, and pressure
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: to achieve. Now that's all we're going to talk about
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: the thirty four item checklist. I had mentioned in the
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: beginning of the show that eventually we're going to start
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: something else and we'll talk about it that will go
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: in depth on certain things. This is one of those
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: things that as we're building content, when we make the announcement,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: you will be able to find. So if you want
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: to know more about that checklist, you'll be able to
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: read about it. So the grandmother and aunts, Maria Menendez,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: Marta Kano, Terry Berralt, they all supported them. The Anderson family,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: Kitty's relatives, they were notably absent. There were a few
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: members of Kitty's family that supported the brothers, like her
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: sister and her niece. Her sister Joan still supports them,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: her brother has not. The rest of the family did not.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting to have, you know, your family members
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: go through all of this, this trauma but still support
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: the kids.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: But I think we have to also stop and say,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: if you look at it, it's Jose's family who mostly supports.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: That tells you they knew deep down what type of
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: person Jose was, or they suspected were Kitty's family. It
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: was much harder for them to wrap their mind around
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: their fact that their beloved Kitty would have done those things.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: So denial is a big thing.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it it is for sure. Now. On July twenty
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: to nineteen ninety three, Bosnich Bozenich, her opening statement to
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: Lyle's jury was, you know, she described the brutality of
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: the murder, six wounds. J Jose tend to Kitty claimed
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: brothers killed while the parents were dozing, and later hired Bodyguardgards.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: It's a false cover up, highlighted their extravagant spending spreeze
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: post murder, suggested a fabricated child abuse allegations to avoid
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: death sentences, and then Lester Kurayama's opening to Eric's jury
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: because they had to do two separate interests. Oh, thank you,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the compliment on the air god. It was
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: a ponytail and it is gone. But Lester Kuriama's opening
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: to Eric's jury claimed Eric wanted to execute his parents
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: and not get caught, brought up Eric's confession to a psychiatrist,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: suggested financial motives, Jose's control over them, inherentance concerns, So
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: that was all prosecution. The defense Jill Lancing, she admitted
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: that the brothers killed their parents, but focused on why.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: She claimed it was, you know, she looks a lot
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: like a lane from the Johnny depp is. It's something
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: about the haircut. What is with the haircut? And defense
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: it was Adam Montgomery too right, his defense attorney also
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: had that. And then also the defense or the attorney
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: for Amber Hurd also had that haircut. They look exactly
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: the same. I didn't realize it until just this moment. Okay, anyways,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: Jill Lansing admitted the brothers killed their parents, but focused
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: on why. Claimed it was out of fear, not greed.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: They described parent the the parents as I'm sorry, that's funny,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: deceptic cod things that wins that one the internet tonight. Okay,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: all right, so they described the parents. She described the
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: parents as brutal, manipulative, and sexually abusive. They built toward
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: a defense that the murders were to protect themselves after
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: a lifetime of abuse. Now, the key catalyst was Eric's
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: revelation to Lyle that Jose had abused him for twelve years.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: Lyle confronted Jose, who said he quote would do whatever
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: he wanted to his son brothers believe their parents planned
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: to kill them. So I just I.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: No parent as a mom, I still do not have
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: the right to do whatever I want to my sons.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Just gonna say that, especially not when they are freaking
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: legal adults. That right there tells you what kind of
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: man he was. He saw these children as possessions.
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there there is a level. There's a social construct
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: and I think we've all heard of it that is
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: called machismo. You know what I'm talking about when I
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: say that. But it's like values, attitudes, behaviors, it all.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: It deals with like being that provider of the family.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: But there's also negative aspects, which our aggression and sexism
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: and sexual prowess, and there's that whole thing. And it
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: does come in certain cultures. And I believe I could
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: be wrong, and people are more than welcome to correct
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: me if I am wrong, but I believe that him
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: being Cuban, I think machismo does come into it. I
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: think also the time period too, So I'm probably talking
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: about my butt.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: But hey, it smells all right.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: So the prosecution.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: What I said, it smells heavenly, Oh thank you.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: Poopree's helpful prosecution focused on the nine to one to
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: one call recording, Lyle stage distress, the testimonies from bodyguards,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: store clerks, and computer experts. That's true, Harry is fab
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: It always is. It's always I'm just trying to keep
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: up with her the whole time. That's That's what I'm doing.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: There was the boat captain's testimony from their fishing trip.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: The Brodels brothers huddled together on the fishing trip before
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: the murders. They were acting strangely. Then you had less
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: Zeller's observation, which were that the brothers returned to the
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: crime scene at five thirty am to get tennis rackets,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: Lyle and Eric's inconsistencies, for instance, claiming fear but actively
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: participating in lavish spending. So they were really hitting the
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: They really went along with what the media was pushing.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: To be honest with you, it was almost like they
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: could be like the court of public opinion, which we
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: all know is powerful, but like, if we can get
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: that on our side, it's good. Doctor Ozelle the therapist,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: he's you know what, he is a man who looks
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: like he walks straight out of a nineteen eighties radio
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: Shack catalog. He's seeing here either explaining why VHS is
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: actually going to make a comeback, or he's your mom's
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: friend who insists on fixing your computer but somehow makes
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: it worse and now the mouse button stick. And that's
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: who that guy is.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: Do you want to know how many people are watching
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: us that are going what is radio shack?
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: You know what? The people who count know what I'm
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: talking about.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: Everybody counts. Everybody counts.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: Listen, is right, you do.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: He's very.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: He looks is.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, just you know, a lot of people do
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: not know what radio shack is.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: But I get the demographics just like you do. I
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: know what our demographics are, and the majority of our
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: listeners definitely know what radio shack is. For sure.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: I barely know what radio shock.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 5: You know what radio shack is, right barely? Oh God,
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 5: have I got a guy to tell you about radio shack.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 5: He is right there. He can tell you all about
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 5: radio shack, I promise. Okay, well, I didn't tell me
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: something anyways.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: I like how we focus on radio shack and none
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: on the fact that he made your mouse computer button sticky, Eric,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: because he now.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: Does sex training for women. So no, I don't like
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: that he worries about your mouse button sticking.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair uh, Eric confessed because Jose was controlling, belittling
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: and impossible to please. Kitty was killed because she couldn't
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: This one was quite a stretch. But for the brothers,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: Kitty was killed because she couldn't emotionally survive without Jose. Now, now,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: if we're talking, if Kitty also, and we didn't talk
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: about this, and I could again, please feel free to
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: digitally slap me. But if Kitty was under some level
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: of abuse, it would communicate she would communicate, or her nonverbals,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: her her actions would communicate that she couldn't survive without
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: Jose because that's what Jose wanted out of her. And
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: so whether that was true or not, that's how they
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: is that wrong. I mean, I'm if they don't know
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: what's actually going on. Yeah, no, Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm making things up as they go.
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: But but considering she took pictures of them and that
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: came out later, I think it's probably harder. And this
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: is just me speculating to admit that your mom did
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: that to you and not just your dad, because your
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: mom is I mean that I'm a blame mom.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's what you're saying.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: You weren't buying what they were saying, Yes.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: Not buying what they were saying.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: Ok So, so the defense attacked his credibility and said
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: that he they accused him of unethical relationships with patients
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: they they talked about that he was facing the California
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: Board of Psychology complaints and y'all need to know that. Eventually,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to record a screen so you can see
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: the notes that get thrown into the script as we're
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: going through. This is behind the curtain, and I just
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: want to let you know that I've been informed. It
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: has come to my attention. I just got news the
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: defense attacked his credibility also because he's a fuck face.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: Now the defense, Hey, we've got to love the comments
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: on the back end. I mean, come on, we're not
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: the only ones drinking. And look at Amy saying it's
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: not me. Look at this Amy, it ain't me.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 9: Not me?
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: Are like an acceptable tramp stamp in this case, You're welcome, everybody,
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: You're welcome.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: I don't have one, but I have something that it
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: just hit me. Maybe when we do the live show
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: in Austin, we should get a tramp stamp. This is
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: TP or PT for producer Terry Wright.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: On our I'm gonna need you to know the initials
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: before we get the tramp stamp.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: PT, not TP. Well you know my husband's name.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: I know, but I was thinking an arrow beneath the TP,
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: just to let people know where it goes.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: So we could do PET and then I'll never forget
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: because I am.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: Perfectly fine with us getting together and getting tattoos, even
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: matching ones. I would love that one hundred. I don't
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: think it's gonna be PET. I apologize, Producer Tera. It's
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: not because you don't mean a lot of things. But
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like I should we keep a shirt
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: and people go, I need TP for my bunghole. Okay,
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: I just don't think if.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: We're gonna do a tramp stamp, we're not lifting our shirt. Honey,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: you're pulling your pants down.
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: Remember we are thinking about doing a drag show too,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: So I don't know what's gonna be showing. Is sure
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: ain't gonna be a tramp stamp. That's for damn shook.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: I can also tell you this, this is gonna be
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: snipped and used as a short.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. This case just makes me crazy that I'm
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: trying to just I'm trying to find anything I can't to.
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, this is what we're gonna do. It's
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: gonna be skippity Terra s T. And when people ask
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: me why it's I'm gonna say because I like the Saints.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: St I like the Saints. I like streets.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: Why do you like the Saints?
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: No, no, Saints isn't like Saint Christopher and Saint.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: The Saints.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, no, no, no, get a roof that stays
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: all right. So fifty witnesses testified over three months, including
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: Lyle and Eric taking the stand. That's a long time.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: That's like a Jody Arius long time. Okay. The the
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: focused on history of abuse for the Defense Imminent Danger
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: defense key testimonies, including An Tyler, a psychologist who diagnosed
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: learned helplessness. John Conti she she she looks like one
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: of the puppets from mister Rogers neighborhood. John Conti was
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: a psychologist who found Lyle's emotional reactions consistent with abuse victims.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: I find his beard poorly trimmed. And then doctor Carrie English,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: who was a medical expert who found a nineteen seventy
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: seven throat injury which we talked about earlier in Eric's
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: medical records, which was possibly from oral sex. Yeah see
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: see lady, listen, lady, and Gray knows exactly who I'm
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: talking about too. Was it Sister Tuesday or something Friday
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, little Lily Tomlin looking, you're correct,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: so looking the agreed. Agreed. Also took me way too
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: long to learn that Lily Tomlin was the voice of
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: Miss Frizzle. Once I found that out, I was awesome.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: Blessure correct, it took me too long? Yeah, bless my,
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: you know what? I know what that meant? All right? Listen?
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: Cross examination and prosecution's rebuttal. The prosecution's strongest moment was
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: that Eric was caught in a lie. Uh. He claimed
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: he saw handguns in a Big five store, but the
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: store stopped selling them in nineteen eighty six. There's your
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: big lie. Okay.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: But I made a comment a year ago that Walmart
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: did not sell guns, and do you know what Walmart
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: sells guns? I had never noticed that they sold guns.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: And I went into an argument with somebody. I said,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: Wally World doesn't sell guns. You're thinking of academy And
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: I was ready to die on that horse.
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: And guess what do you?
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: I was wrong? So I say, if he thought the
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: Big Five souled guns, I thought Walmart didn't. Just listen,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know from Texas. I don't go to Walmart
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: lesson half new I have my teeth.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: There's a reason why there's a murder isle. I do
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: want to say that this entire you know, family members
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: like Kitty's brother, the housekeeper, former secretary, they all disputed
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: the abuse claims, all of them.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now I'm gonna stop you right there. I am sorry,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: they're pardon my language. If we get censored, I'm sorry.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: There is no fucking way that Kitty's brother, housekeeper, and
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: the former secretary can say one that they weren't abused.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: If you're not living in that house twenty four hours
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: a day, three hundred sixty five days a year, and
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: you're not sleeping in their bedroom, you don't f and
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: know what goes on when people go to bed. People
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: come into your room when you are sleeping, and shit happens,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: and nobody else in the fucking house knows.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: So that is.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: Bullshit and should have been kicked out of court.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: Agreed, wholeheartedly. Agreed. No, it's okay, it's all right. The
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: defense for closing arguments the murders were out of panic,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: they weren't premeditated. The brothers were traumatized, not killers. The
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: prosecution called them spoiled, vicious brats, and they highlighted those
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: financial motives and deception, even though that wasn't an extenuating factor. Well,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: on January nineteen ninety four, both juries deadlocked after weeks
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: of deliberation and only three jury on Lyle's jury voted
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: for first degree murder. They ended up being the mistrial
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: was declared and Garcetti, the district attorney, announced a retrial
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: that that would happen. Now, the thing about this, this trial,
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: the case was never it was never about guilt. They
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: admitted to the killings. That's that's honestly, that was probably
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: one of the better decisions that they made. Like we
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: did this, the prosecution failed to counter the abuse narrative effectively. Uh,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to counter something like that when
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: your your your counter is no. It's like the legal
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: equivalent of your mom. It just it doesn't work. And
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: then the mistrial was seen as a failure of the
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: justice system by some people. But again we got to
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: remember that the whole attitude towards the legal system was
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: crazy at the moment. There was a lot going on
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: in LA and around the area. Now, before we hop
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: into trial too, we're going to play some of the
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: juror interviews from that trial. It's a little bit, you know,
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: it's longer, but I think I think you'll get a
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: lot from it. And so go ahead and take a
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: look at this.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 7: Kill out of fear. It automatically reduces the crime to manslaughter.
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 7: If you think that they had malice a forethought, and
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 7: had premeditated the killings, then it's first degree murdering. They
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 7: always had money, so when they go, you know, buy things,
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 7: they're going to spend more money than you or I,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 7: And I think there was a lot of resentment in
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 7: the room towards a couple of rich kids. You know
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 7: that they perceived them as being spoiled, not as abused.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: He was a weasel.
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 7: He weaseled out of questions left and right. And I
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 7: figured someone who couldn't give a straight answer about what
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 7: his notes said, or what his motives were, or what
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 7: actually had happened. You know, it made me suspect him.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 7: He defense had like five expert witnesses and gave us
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 7: what added to a seminar on the psychology of abuse,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 7: and the prosecution didn't have one contradictory expert witness. One
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 7: of the most popular notions is that the women on
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 7: Eric Sturiy were more sympathetic and more gullible and less
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 7: interested in justice than the men were. Well, in my opinion,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 7: it was the men who got more emotional. I think
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 7: they were more invested in their in their opinions, and
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 7: more concerned about what the public would think about them
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 7: if they didn't return a first degree murder verdict. This
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 7: has got to be one of the least cred least
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 7: honest people I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 7: If you don't buy the sexual abuse, I can see
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 7: how it would be really hard to understand the rest
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 7: of it. I thought that the expert witnesses were very credible,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 7: and I think that it was a big mistake on
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 7: the part of the prosecution to not have any counter
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 7: expert witnesses. You have to think about what are Ozill's
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 7: motives for making this tape and for asking these questions,
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 7: and what are their motives? What are they still trying
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 7: to hide? How much of this can you take at
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 7: face value? Abuse helps explain how they might have reached
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 7: the conclusion that their lives were in danger. But it
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 7: wasn't just we've been abused all our lives. Our parents
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 7: deserved it. So much evidence of this oppressive childhood that
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 7: they had that it was hard to ignore, especially when
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 7: the family members testified. Family members were testifying against Jose
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 7: and Kitty, they were not testifying against Eric and Lyle.
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 7: He was emotional and the audience was emotional. I could
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 7: feel the emotion, but I didn't cry like so many
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 7: others did, because it was very, very important for me
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 7: to be analyzing everything he said. Every minute, I was thinking, Okay,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 7: is he telling the truth? Is he not telling the truth?
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 7: But he was so convincing that I figure he's either
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 7: telling the truth or he's the best actor I've ever
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 7: seen in my life. End of each child. The judge
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 7: admonished the jurors to avoid news of the trial. It
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 7: was almost impossible. And one of my clues that the
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 7: media was prosecution biased is that whenever I did talk
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 7: to friends, even if we didn't talk specifically about the trial,
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 7: they sometimes couldn't help themselves by asking me, did you
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 7: hang him yet? In Eric's testimony, when it came time
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 7: to talk about the abuse, he was so reluctant to
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 7: say the words out loud. It was a horrible moment.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 7: And in the jury box, the man I was sitting
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 7: next to wrote in his notebook, Allege's father abused him period,
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 7: and then he closed his notebook, put it down on
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 7: the ground, and crossed his arms. And it was little
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 7: things like that that told me we were going to
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 7: have a problem in the jury room. During deliberations, the
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 7: women on Eric's jury had reason to believe that some
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 7: of the men either were watching the news or had
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 7: a source of information that I believe put pressure on
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 7: them to convict rather than to be seen as gullible
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 7: in the eyes of the public. We spent the next
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 7: month arguing the women on Eric's jury. We were all
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 7: about the evidence and the men. They were all about
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 7: justifying their opinion that this couldn't have happened in the
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 7: way that the Menanda's brothers said it was all about
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 7: their doubt that a man could ever abuse their sons.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 7: They had a split jury down gender lines because half
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 7: the jury, which was all of the men, wanted to
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 7: vote for murder and all of the women wanted to
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 7: vote for manslaughter.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 3: I realized that it was a con job. To me,
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 3: it was anyway. I sat in that jury box for
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 3: five months looking for the corroboration of all of his testimony,
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 3: and nothing was there.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: I wanted it to be, and there just wasn't.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 3: And Lyle says, well, I wanted Eric to sleep on
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 3: it for a few days before we decided to kill mother.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 3: If that isn't premeditation to murder, I don't know what
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 3: it is. There were jurors that wanted to let the
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 3: guys walk, literally walk, and one of them was our foreman,
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 3: by the way, and that was one of his first
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: few statements, was that if he had his way, he
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 3: would sign the not guilty verdict and let the brothers go.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 3: And that's when I blew up. I mean, I got
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 3: so angry and so heated that we had to take
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 3: a break, otherwise there would have been some physical confrontation
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 3: going on. It was impossible for me to understand how
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 3: any of the jurors could think or buy into the
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 3: fear element that they were in fear of their lives
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 3: that the moment or a few moments before they killed
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 3: their parents, because the parents were in a closed room,
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 3: the doors were closed, they had no weapons, The brothers
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 3: knew they had no weapons.
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 14: I think that it's as possible that they bought those
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 14: shotguns for defense, that they were afraid of their parents
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 14: as it is that they were planning to kill their parents.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 14: We realized that we just basically did not agree on
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 14: what those basic facts meant. We agreed what the facts were,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 14: we could not agree on their interpretation. Whether or not
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 14: somebody abuses you, you do not have the right to
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 14: kill them or to hurt them, and you should be
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 14: held accountable for that. And I think that every juror
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 14: on both juries feels the same way that in fact,
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 14: they should be held accountable. And we just couldn't decide
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 14: how accountable murder second degree, first degree or manslaughter.
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 8: When you go out next day by Rolex watches, when
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 8: you start spending money on sports cars like kind of
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 8: Lyell always wanted, and it was testified earlier that that's
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 8: what he wanted. He went out and got it. It
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 8: just didn't seem like they were grieving. Or we would
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 8: pick a foreman and then we would take a vote,
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 8: and I felt like it would be unanimous guilty the
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 8: first degree murder, But to my surprise, it came out
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 8: sixty six when we took our first rope.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't appreciate you saying that the nerd
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: looked like me, although you didn't really say that I'm projecting.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: I's I I just want to say, there are so
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: many things I find problematic with that jury. Is they
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: absolutely were watching news they weren't supposed to, and I
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: I think it was the time. I don't think normal
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: men could wrap their heads around the fact that a
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: father would do that to their own Yeah, I think,
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: And I think that You're first thought is, oh my god,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: they would never. And that's like I used to tell
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: people as a mom, I learned the hard way, don't
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: ever say my kid would never, because guess what, your
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: kid's gonna be the first one to do it. So
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: I think that. So I don't want to shame them
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: because I think that's just the way it was back then.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: But damn yeah, I will say this. I'll say this.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: The the observation, the line, the the fact that it
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: was split down gender identified gender roles or whatever that's
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: from the not Surprised files.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just I can't blame them. It's the
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: way we were raised back then. Just like if a
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: girl got pregnant in high school, it was her fault
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: for enticing the football player or the boy. He had
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: no accountability in it. If she wouldn't you know, enticed him.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: So it's just this same thing.
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: That's two weeks in a row. You made me spit
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: out my drinking surprise. Yeah, yeah, that whole like you
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: shouldn't address so provocatively, et cetera. You know, or men
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 1: should be held to a higher standard.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: I think we should all. I think we should all
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: be held to a higher standard. And I think we
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: need to stop and think and question the norm thinking
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: just because that's the way we've always done it, that's
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: the way we were raised, you should still question it
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: because guess what, maybe there's one anomaly. Oh like maybe
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: Tara's up bunny instead of a lama.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: Ah blasphemy, You're fired.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: Could be let's get the trial too, because trial to
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: is a sh show. I'm going to just say it.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: It is a shit show. I don't know if I
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: get so much into the sensationalism and the shit show,
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: but I do get into exactly what happened, which I
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: I do want to say that I've moved on from
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: wine to fake apples, fake hard sighter Bellini. That's where
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: I've gone. I've already finished, So we're moving on, all right.
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: You drank a whole bottle of wine, and I'm only
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: on glass too. Damn I'm raising.
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: Right, meaning DCWT, I am glad.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: It's only taken you how many years to get here?
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 2: But okay, you're here. It's okay. Some men are a
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 2: little bit slower than others, but you finally get that.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 1: As the kids say, started from the bottom. Now I'm here.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: Nobody says that. Nobody says that. Noah person says that.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: All right, so listen, let's get because, yeah, we have
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: the mistrial. The first trial, there are one hundred one witnesses.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: It was televised. It was a high media spectacle. The
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: retrial there were sixty four witnesses. It was more traditional
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: and a serious murder trial than the spectacle. The prosecution
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: of the defense team a little bit different. We had
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: David Kahn, who was the veteran assistant District Attarney. Also,
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: he looks like Dwight Shrewd. Looks like he should be,
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: you know, pulling beats. To be honest with you, when
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: the band said we got the beat, they didn't mean Dwight,
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: but he sure as hell did. And Carol Najera replaced
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: Pam Bosanich and Lester Kiriama Leslie Abramson continued to represent
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: Eric funded by taxpayers as the Menendaz estate had actually
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: run out of money. Barry Levin assisted Abramson and then
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: which Barry Barry Levin looks like Barry Bostwick.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: Question, did the Menindez thing run out of money or
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: did the family stop paying it because they were being charged?
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: That just hit me. I'm like, there's no way they
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: ran out of money.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: From what I found, it was the estate ran out
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: of money.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: That'll be a state said you ain't getting no more money.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, produce a terra saying that that is the case.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I would think, because I mean, you
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: can't use your family's money if you kill the family.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: Like if I killed double H, I can't use his
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: money to do my defense.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: I mean you can. You just got to be good
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: at it. I've seen money used for weird.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: I would never kill him.
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: I gave you really shiny, sparkly knives.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 5: Guys.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 2: These knives are beautiful. They're gold. Okay, y'all want to
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: see how sharp they are? Let me get a piece
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: of paper.
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: Oh geez, all right, so listen, here's the thing. Paris
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: Hilton makes knives sharper than she is. I mean they
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 1: like slice, You're like, I can't remember what his name is,
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: but that that late night television that commercial host I
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: might use those on. Okay, let's go, all right, So
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: here's the deal. Lyle was declared indigent and he was
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: represented by a public defender, Charles Gessler, who is a
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: well known penalty attorney, very well known, not for his hair.
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: And then there was Terry Towery who was who assisted
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: Gessler as well. And there's that haircut again, just with
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: less bang and more part. In terms of the prosecution strategy,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: Kahn studied the mistakes of Bozenich and Curiama and ensure
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: that he directly addressed the abuse allegations. He said, you
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: know what, they didn't do that good. They didn't do
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: a good job with that. Let's go. He hired forensic
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: psychiatrist doctor Park Elliott. Deets scene here yelling at a
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: small child for skipping down his driveway to counter the
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: counter the I didn't make that observation earlier, but boy,
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: oh boy, he looks angry to counter the battered person
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: syndrome defense. Successfully, they they deats despite how interesting he
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: looks here successfully helped them throw out the battered person's
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: syndrome defense. Now, Judge Weisberg, October eleventh, nineteen ninety five,
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: I'm still seen here with less hair than usual. The
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: retrial began. Weisberg ruled that the brothers were would be
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: tried retried together with a single jury, stating that a
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: single single jury the single trial's advantages outweighed any potential prejudice.
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 5: So wow, he wouldn't admit. He wouldn't admit that he
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 5: made a mistake here, he made a mistake.
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: It's man.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a man. Let's just be honest.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 1: That's fair. Oh, I don't know what does that make
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: me then, because there's a lot of times I come
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: into our little group chat and I'm just like, I
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: fucked up.
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, how about you're a smart man.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not there.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: My wife has raised too well.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: There you go. That works better. That works, I mean
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: that for the most part, works better for the most part.
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: In Forrest, come though, when he says I'm not a
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: smart man, that's that's me.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 2: That's okay, producer terror and I'm just pop a gummy
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: and deal with you.
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: It's not the first time somebody said they needed to
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: do a substance in order to deal with me. All right,
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: so let's just go, oh god, okay, so where were
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: we there? We are, thank you. There were no cameras
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: allowed this time, and much of the sexual abuse evidence
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: and testimony was actually deemed inadmissible, so they wouldn't even
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: allow that.
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 4: To come in.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 2: Do you know why? Because they did not want another
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 2: mistrial because that is seen as a failure. And if
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: you take out the sexual abuse evidence, the chance and
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: says if you getting a conviction are higher, And that's
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: why they did it, and that's why we're in the
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: situation we are in now waiting on a re sentencing,
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: caring and I won't get on my soap. I will
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: just sit on my knives.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, don't do that. Good God, uh
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: produce a teric. Can you just confirm that the second
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 1: trial was post OJ? Right? No, it was before. I
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: don't know my timeline. Don't worry about it. We got it.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 1: It started a week after it started a week after
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: OJ right, right, right, right, So so so here's here's
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: my justification. Here is that it started a week after
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: they really needed a conviction. They had been looked, they
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: had been made to look silly because if it don't fit,
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: it don't equit, And so they were going to toss
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: things out in order to get a conviction versus doing
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: a full defense. That's my argument. But nah, so Weisberg's
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: rulings against the defense. He limited the number of defense
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: mental health experts. He excluded this guy. I've got words, okay,
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: but we know why.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: And we haven't shared it. But he admitted that he
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: deleted notes from his sessions and didn't provide them to
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 2: the prosecution, which is misconduct. But what I have to
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: say about that, if you are a psychologist, why should
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 2: you have to give the notes about your patient to
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: the prosecution. But I get it because the court's paying
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 2: and all that ship, But there is still.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know. All I have
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: to say is that if you have a mustache that
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: in the middle is black and at the sides is gray,
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: you still shouldn't have a mustache because that very much
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: looks like you're happy with somebody else.
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 2: He looks like one of the little chaplain guys that
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 2: were the little black hats and did that stuff. I
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 2: forget what his name was. Charlie Chaplin Charlie Chaplin, doesn't
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 2: he take off his squam.
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: He he looks like, yeah, okay, yes he does. You're right,
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: Charlie Chaplin, hippa did not exist yet.
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: Yes it did at all. It did, just not in court.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: There was a rod right, just not in court. But
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: there's always there's not always, but for many, many years
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: there's been a version if you can't tell.
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: Shit, but right, but like as it's known today, wasn't
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: in effect.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: No, not the way it is in today?
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: Correct, right?
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 9: Right?
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: Right? All right? So he so basically he did allow
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 1: for the heat of passion defense for Jose's killing, but
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: not for kiddies. Also, he ruled that there was no
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: evidence of imminent danger when the murders occurred, which rejected
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: self defense jury instruction. In other words, he cut their
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: legs out from under them.
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: But I have a question, because you're more of a
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: trial why than I am. Why would you give the
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: heat of passion for one but not the others?
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: Well, it was the judge that did it, right, No,
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 1: But why would.
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 2: The judge say, oh, you can do one but not
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 2: the other. They were killed at the same time. The
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: So I just don't get it, like you said he
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 2: cut his that cut their legs off.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: But whyy So the way that they talked about this
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 1: is that Jose was a heat of passion. In other words,
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: they did this due to what was the arguments and
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: things that happened, kitties. Was not because it was more
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: of a sympathy kill. Because the brothers said it was
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: a sympathy kill.
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't want to admit. Okay, makes sense.
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: So the prosecutions CON's key points in his opening argument
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: the Menanda's brothers were motivated by greed when they killed
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: their parents. Claim brothers carried their dead parents is safe
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: to probate Attorney's home within twenty four hours of the murders.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: He looks like he's about to sell me a broom. Sorry,
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: that's just what he looks like. The defense response, Abramson
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: are also, we got to take them out of me. Abrason,
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: it's very hard to say after a Bottle argued they
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: were killed due to mind numbing, adrenaline pumping fear, and
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: Gessler argued that the brothers believed their parents had supernatural
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: powers and knew their every move, which I can only
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: imagine Abramson sitting there going we did not discuss this.
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 1: It just seems too far fetched for Abramson. She seems
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: very down to earth with her arguments in terms of
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: the key prosecution evidence and witnesses. There were three key
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: tapes played. The police interview, which was one month after
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 1: the murders. The brothers said they had no issues with
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: their parents, so.
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: Well as an Avid, Olivia Benson lover and fangirl. I
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 2: know that victims often do not tell the truth the
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 2: first one or two times are talking with police, so duh,
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: they're ashamed, they're traumatized, and they think no one believed them,
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: or say why didn't do you leave? So we just
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: all need to listen to Olivia Benson.
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, doctor o'zell didn't come back to testify.
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: They did play the confession tapes admitting to the killings,
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: so we didn't have to see radio shack man. We
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 1: just had to listen to his bad choices. Then there
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: was Lyle's nine one one call con highlighted that their
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: web of lies to avoid con highlighted their quote web
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 1: of lies to avoid suspicion, and our producers giving us
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 1: a note that it was bullshit. He should have had
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 1: to testify that he recorded it to make it authentic.
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: You're correct, he should have. They should have authentic icated that,
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: and they did not, And yeah, that's not good. So
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: you had the corner's findings and the new crime scene reconstruction.
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 1: So doctor Irwin Golden, who.
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 9: Was what what?
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here talking on mute and I'm like, oh
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 2: my god, he's ignoring me again. So didn't the fact
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 2: that that wasn't authenticated? Wasn't that listed in their appeal
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 2: later on? Because just like you can't have hearsay witnesses,
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 2: if you cannot question that witness, you can't play their tape.
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 2: So I think it was. We don't have to look
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, but I think it was. But we'll
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: find out when they eventually go for their recent and
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 2: sing trial.
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 1: Right and for everybody, this is why we're doing this
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: is because the men and his brothers are set to
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: be re sentenced. We thought it was gonna be the
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 1: twenty of twenty first, but they've postponed it. So but
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 1: we will have great things coming. So, doctor Irwin Golden,
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 1: the original corner was not called due to criticism over
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 1: errors in the O. J. Simpson case. Probably a good
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: idea that's a fascinating fella. What is with everybody in
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: like the nineties with their receding hairline, who are probably
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: thirty two? He's probably thirty two. Everybody in the nineties
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 1: had a receding hairline, and they were like in their
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: early thirties. He is not.
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: What is the He is not in his early thirties.
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 1: Correct, he does look a lot like the muppet who
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 1: does science. You are right, he does.
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna say he is forty five.
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sure he is a nice gentleman.
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 2: Because he helped invent hymns, which helps grow hair. So yeah,
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 2: it looked like the top of.
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 1: His head lived a much harder life than the rest
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: of him.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: Well, why you talk. I don't go google it. Since
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 2: I can no longer say give it a goog, I'm
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 2: gonna go find out.
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so listen they doctor Roger McCarthy. I
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 1: almost said that word for where Doctor Roger McCarthy reconstructed
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: the murders To prove premeditation. He used a computer generated
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 1: recreation of the shooting was probably gray men. He concluded
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: that Jose and Kitty were executed in a deliberate manner. Now,
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 1: The private pathologist Robert Lawrence, testified and said he demonstrated
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: the shooting angles. He used mannikins, and he argued that
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: Jose was shot after death to make the killings look
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: like a mafia hit. Kitty's wound suggested that she was
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: cover cowering on the floor when she was shot. I'm
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: not sure that that actually argues mafia hit because I
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 1: feel like the mafia would be would be way more
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: proud of a one shot and out versus the whole,
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: like unless they were trying to send a message. I
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: Agreed, and just see, you know, according to the Google search,
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 2: he was forty three.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I don't All I'm
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: saying is that I watched PBA tours and I see
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 1: the dudes from the nineties and they always look like
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: they're fifty five and they're actually twenty four. It's weird, incorrect.
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 1: The mafia would not use shotguns. They are much too loud.
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 1: There's much too much that could go wrong, all right,
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: So the defense's response to the reconstruction, The defense called
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 1: multiple experts to refute McCarthy's findings. They it would testify
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 1: that McCarthy's reconstruction was not scientific, and that Kitty and
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 1: Jose were standing up one shot. Truly, that reconstruction looks
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: like a freshman in high school's three D studio Max
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: try that is that Picasso would go, it's a bit much.
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, those reenactments. I'm not a fan of them because
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 2: we all know that you can manipulate them and that
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that doesn't even look like a person. That
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 2: looks like a Plato doll.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: I mean observations, correct. I know reconstruction is very different
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: than it was today. However, I will say the staircase
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 1: recreation was just like this. It was just as silly looking.
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: This looks like a crash test.
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: If you haven't seen the staircase watch it also that
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: that image implicates, or imply is that Kitty was right
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 1: next to Jose during this time, but wasn't Kitty on
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 1: the other couch, like in front of the other couch.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: So she was found on the floor because she got
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: up and tried to flee, but they were sitting next
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: to each other when she was shot, but then she
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: fell on the floor after.
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are we basing that off of the recreation or
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 1: do we know that for a fact.
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: No, that's from the actual crime scene photos that you
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 2: can file the fine on the dark web.
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 1: Which I don't have access to nineteen ninety five graphics.
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there were multiple people to refute. And yes,
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 1: those videos can be edited and messed up and made
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 1: to look like anybody. But here's the thing. In the nineties,
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 1: if you could do something like that, whether it was
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 1: fixed or not, it looked impressive. And they were like, yes,
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 1: it's impressive. Yeah, I've had enough of looking at the
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 1: lamp from Pixar. Let's watch this, all right. So Eric's testimony.
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 1: Lyle chose not to testify this time, but Eric testified
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 1: for fifteen days. That's right, fifteen days. You thought Jody
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 1: Arius was enough. No, no, no, Eric testified for fifteen days.
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: Judge Weisberg limited his testimony on childhood abuse, deeming some
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 1: claims irrelevant. I can't imagine as a judge sitting up
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 1: there saying I'm sorry, your experiences irrelevant, But here we are.
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm not a judge. He does under cross examination, Yeah,
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 1: con portrayed Eric as a liar, highlighting his past deceptions.
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 1: Question why Eric didn't leave home or join the army
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: if he feared his father, that's quite a leap, quite
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 1: a leap. Eric admitted no living witnesses could verify verify
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 1: the abuse in terms of psychological testimonies and defense. Uh
• 2:32:03
  Speaker 1: doctor deets. The prosecution psychiatrist found no evidence of PTSD
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 1: and Eric, Wow, there he is arguing that some kid
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 1: is on his lawn and humpty dumpty does not want
• 2:32:14
  Speaker 1: to fall over again. That's what he looks like. His
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: tie looks like it goes to his knees. What a
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 1: fella woolf jesus.
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 2: I mean the fact that the psychiatrists that he had
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 2: no PTSD. He would have even had PTSD from killing
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 2: his parents. So this guy was paid very well to
• 2:32:43
  Speaker 2: say what the prosecution wanted.
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 4: You.
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 1: No, you're you're right. And I think, honestly, even if
• 2:32:55
  Speaker 1: somebody would have said PTSD for sure, just like a
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 1: guest on Spruck, it's I don't know, yeah, so he
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 1: would he diagnosed Eric with generalized anxiety disorder. Instead, he
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 1: said he doesn't have PTSD, he has general anxiety disorder.
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: There is nothing general about that. Also, you're an ass hat, argued,
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 1: Eric's weapon purchases showed assertiveness, not helplessness. No, it looks
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 1: like a last ditch effort to get out of something, sir,
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 1: makes me angry. Doctor John Wilson, the defense psychologist, diagnosed
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 1: Eric with PTSD, which we agree with. There was a
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 1: major shift in Lyle's defense Guestsler abandoned the self defense
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 1: argument while it was thrown out used in the first trial. Instead,
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 1: he argued that Lyle acted in a quote heat of passion. Change.
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 1: The change was due to new evidence of Lyle coaching witnesses,
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 1: which I mean.
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 2: Not saying it was right, because it's absolutely wrong, just
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 2: like you shouldn't coach a candidate for an interview, and
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 2: that's a big thing in the HR in the recruiting world.
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 2: But in their case, sorry, y'all, I cut my finger.
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 2: What young adult isn't gonna do anything they possibly can
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 2: to save their life. That is natural human response. I'm
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 2: not saying it's right, but I don't think we can say, oh,
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't have done that, because guess what, it's probably
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 2: scared shitless in willing to try anything. And the judges said,
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: you can't say you were abused, You can't speak your
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 2: truth because we don't believe you. So if they don't
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 2: believe that shouldn't you do something?
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 1: Here, here's my thought, and and and and it might
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 1: not apply to everything. But if you say, if the
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 1: conversation goes like this, I wouldn't have done that, and
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 1: the person says, have you ever been in that situation?
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: And you say, well, no, the next thing out of
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 1: the other person now should be, then shut the fuck up,
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 1: because if you've never been in that situation, you sure
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 1: as hell shouldn't be, shouldn't be, could not be making
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 1: that comment. You have no place to make that comment
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: if you've never experienced that at all.
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 2: And that's the problem I have. And that's why we
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 2: try so hard, all of us when we are talking
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 2: about cases and things. We always say we think we
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 2: would react this way, we think we would do that,
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 2: But guess what, until we are actually in that, we
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and and that's why that's why, like for
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 1: this case, and I think I'm so proud, like I'm happy,
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: let's just tuck ourselves up. But like, it's very easy
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 1: to jump to conclusions. You know, it's very easy to
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 1: be like they pulled the trigger, they're guilty, put them
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 1: in jail. Again, you have to consider the entire context.
• 2:36:27
  Speaker 1: You have to consider everything, and you have to consider,
• 2:36:30
  Speaker 1: like my argument here is what benefit, what benefit? What
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 1: do they get out of? And yes, of course by
• 2:36:37
  Speaker 1: all means you can say, well, they would have been
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 1: found innocent, but what benefit.
• 2:36:44
  Speaker 2: It's not easy, Okay, I don't.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 1: Think you would.
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, But we're also not trying to say they were innocent.
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 2: They admitted they didn't. So there's a difference between innocent.
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 1: What we we're arguing for mitigating factors, I think is
• 2:37:06
  Speaker 1: what we're arguing there were legitimate mitigating factors, all right.
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 1: So to finish this up, to wrap this up, this
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 1: this second trial, the prosecution and closing arguments ridiculed the
• 2:37:19
  Speaker 1: abuse claims as a fabricated excuse, which makes you kind
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 1: of a dick urged jury to convict on first degree
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 1: murder not manslaughter. Now, the defense Abramson, accused Khan of
• 2:37:31
  Speaker 1: using fraudulent witnesses for political gain, interesting attacked the prosecution's
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: claim that the brothers made it look like a mafia hit,
• 2:37:39
  Speaker 1: and Gessler compared the case to a Greek tragedy, blaming
• 2:37:44
  Speaker 1: Jose and Kitty for their own demise. It's really interesting
• 2:37:51
  Speaker 1: to me and I didn't make this observation. But his
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 1: name is Khan, and and that's fascinating.
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 4: But like.
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 1: God, yeah, I find though, Yes, his wrath, the wrath
• 2:38:09
  Speaker 1: of Khan is wrong. I've got three people at the
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 1: same time in the background.
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying not to suck my finger on the
• 2:38:19
  Speaker 2: camera anymore so that I don't get in trouble because
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 2: this is not my only fans age.
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 1: I know this is not my only fans I we
• 2:38:32
  Speaker 1: can talk about that later. Here's the thing, like, accusing
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 1: Con of using fraudulent witnesses for political gain is quite
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 1: the leap. As as as true as that probably was,
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think the jury would like to hear that,
• 2:38:49
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's almost a personal attack.
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 1: The jury's like, I'm over it anyways, all right, con
• 2:38:55
  Speaker 1: spot a final statement, Con accused the brothers of blaming
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 1: the victims and creating an elaborate abuse excuse, and asserted
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: that they told countless lies to justify their crimes. Just
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 1: so much so, I'm going to go ahead. I've been
• 2:39:12
  Speaker 1: talking long enough. I am going to let you go
• 2:39:14
  Speaker 1: ahead and get into conviction and sentencing.
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I am going to agree with Chakkahn one thing
• 2:39:24
  Speaker 2: or con sorry not sha Ka Khan. But they did
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 2: tell countless lies. I don't think they were to justify
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 2: the crimes they were trying to explain. I think there's
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 2: a difference. But that's my two cents. But we're going
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 2: to get into it.
• 2:39:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're right, there's a difference. There is a distinct difference.
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 2: Not everybody agrees with me. But first trial both juries
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 2: for Erica Mile were deadlock and as we know, the
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 2: first trial ended in a mistrial. The second trial, both
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 2: While and Eric were found guilty a first degree murder
• 2:39:59
  Speaker 2: and conspare to commit murder in March of nineteen ninety six. Now,
• 2:40:04
  Speaker 2: the sentencing portion took three weeks, okay, and the defense
• 2:40:10
  Speaker 2: called eighteen witnesses to testify on behalf of the brothers. Now,
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 2: since the sentencing phase is different from the trial, other
• 2:40:21
  Speaker 2: evidence is allowed to be used, such as the age
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 2: of the brothers, their emotional distress, the stuff that happened
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 2: to them, the trauma in their life. So basically then
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 2: they were able to kind of somewhat get that into
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 2: evidence and to get some sympathy from the jury for
• 2:40:44
  Speaker 2: what happened to the brothers. Okay. Now, so it is
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 2: during the sentencing phase that it was discovered and proved
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 2: that the psychiatrist Vickory had falsified his records. So they
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 2: didn't allow him to testify in the second one because
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 2: they were investigating it. But they he finally admitted it
• 2:41:16
  Speaker 2: and proved it was true.
• 2:41:17
  Speaker 1: What this guy, this guy looks like he not only
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 1: falsified that, but that he falsifies his tender and his
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 1: bumble and possibly a couple other accounts as well. This smella.
• 2:41:34
  Speaker 1: He I cannot, I can, I cannot decide where I
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 1: want to start with this guy. I just can't. You
• 2:41:45
  Speaker 1: know what we mentioned earlier, bird Bones, this is the dude.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 1: This is bird Bones. I am calling him bird Bones
• 2:41:53
  Speaker 1: from here on out. That's his nickname. He receives the
• 2:41:57
  Speaker 1: bird Bones. I feel like.
• 2:42:03
  Speaker 2: The psychiatrist bird Bones admitted that he deleted information. Now, guys, yes,
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 2: this could have resulted in a mistrial, but the judge
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 2: allowed Abradson to stay on his eric's attorney because psychiatrists
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 2: bird Bones said that Leslie asked him to delete those
• 2:42:34
  Speaker 2: You guys are having way too much fun.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 1: It looks like.
• 2:42:45
  Speaker 8: Looks like.
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, I'm not gonna say what's in my
• 2:42:51
  Speaker 2: head because I will tell you guys later. So I'm
• 2:42:58
  Speaker 2: going to just type it into the private chat.
• 2:43:03
  Speaker 1: Just okay, I can't stay for this, fella.
• 2:43:14
  Speaker 2: No no, no, no, wait, no one wants to ride
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 2: that mustache. So now, the judge did instruct the jury
• 2:43:25
  Speaker 2: that they could not consider Abramson's alleged misconduct when deciding
• 2:43:31
  Speaker 2: between death and a life sentence, and the judge also
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 2: limited questions that could be asked of the psychiatrists bird
• 2:43:41
  Speaker 2: bones or bones, bird whatever, regarding his notes. Now, the
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 2: prosecution was seeking the death penalty due to the horrifying
• 2:43:50
  Speaker 2: and brutal way that jose and Kitty were killed. Okay,
• 2:43:55
  Speaker 2: in a lot of cases, I would maybe understand that.
• 2:44:00
  Speaker 2: But he also said that the defense was desperate and
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 2: that is why they made allegations of abuse. Okay, the
• 2:44:12
  Speaker 2: defense was seeking life in prison. Yes, do you need to.
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 1: Because I'm mourning for all the people we just killed.
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 2: Does this say box far Fort.
• 2:44:29
  Speaker 1: Fort box Fort, It's a it's a it's old school reference. God,
• 2:44:34
  Speaker 1: it's sad.
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 2: But Lyle and Eric were sentenced to life in prison
• 2:44:42
  Speaker 2: without the possibility of parole. Now we do have a
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 2: quick juror speaking out after this audio.
• 2:44:54
  Speaker 9: I wish Lyle would have testified. And he sat there
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 9: throughout the trial very unemotional, just very stoic, and you
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 9: never quite could get a clue as to what he
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 9: was all about. The whole thing with the fear, I
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 9: just couldn't buy a complete as it was the whole story.
• 2:45:15
  Speaker 9: I think they did fear their parents because their parents
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 9: were so controlling. I believe that, but I don't believe
• 2:45:21
  Speaker 9: that they feared that their parents were going to kill
• 2:45:24
  Speaker 9: them at the time they killed their parents.
• 2:45:28
  Speaker 12: We did think there was psychological abuse to some extent
• 2:45:32
  Speaker 12: sexual abuse.
• 2:45:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think we will ever know if that's true
• 2:45:37
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 13: Age being fairly young, their prior criminal record being that
• 2:45:45
  Speaker 13: they didn't have violence, and that they had been very
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 13: cooperative in school and with their coaches. These kind of
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 13: things told us that these were not lives just to
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 13: be thrown into great.
• 2:46:04
  Speaker 1: Can. I yes, the O zone called, and it wants
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 1: its hole back because the amount of hairspray that is
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 1: in that woman's hair is ungodly.
• 2:46:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, you just insulted me, because I believe every woman
• 2:46:24
  Speaker 2: back in that time will use an entire can of
• 2:46:27
  Speaker 2: Aquinet to go anywhere, so you can just kiss my grits.
• 2:46:32
  Speaker 1: The answer, No, the brand is Aqua. Oh no you didn't,
• 2:46:35
  Speaker 1: that is what the brand is called.
• 2:46:37
  Speaker 2: And that Aquinet. Oh yes I did. And I had
• 2:46:40
  Speaker 2: most fabulous hair back then, So.
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 15: Okay, listen, you don't have fabulous hair, that's fine, yeah,
• 2:46:48
  Speaker 15: I I just so many problems for the second trial.
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 1: So you said that they were sentenced to life in
• 2:46:58
  Speaker 1: prison without the possibility of I think I think my
• 2:47:02
  Speaker 1: concerns with all of this, especially the second trial, is
• 2:47:06
  Speaker 1: that they expected the jurors to not have heard about
• 2:47:11
  Speaker 1: this for the past uneteenth the number of years, and
• 2:47:14
  Speaker 1: and I just can't even come close to believing that,
• 2:47:18
  Speaker 1: and actually considering that, even with the totality of the
• 2:47:22
  Speaker 1: evidence given in the first case first, what they didn't
• 2:47:24
  Speaker 1: hear in the second trial. I guess we should kind
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 1: of be okay with them for making the decision they did,
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 1: or proud of them. I don't know. I mean, I'm
• 2:47:33
  Speaker 1: about as conflicted as a vegetarian at a BBQ joint
• 2:47:36
  Speaker 1: that also has a really good mac and cheese. That
• 2:47:40
  Speaker 1: felt really forced. I should rethink my lines that I write.
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 1: But here we are well I'm.
• 2:47:46
  Speaker 2: Gonna just say I'm not sure we should be proud
• 2:47:49
  Speaker 2: of them, because in some ways, I think they did
• 2:47:56
  Speaker 2: what they could because the judge held back so much
• 2:48:00
  Speaker 2: of the defensive strategy and they didn't listen or pay
• 2:48:05
  Speaker 2: attention to what they learned previously. They actually sentenced them
• 2:48:13
  Speaker 2: and convicted them based on what they were allowed to know.
• 2:48:17
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to say I'm proud of them
• 2:48:19
  Speaker 2: because I almost wish somebody would have grown some balls
• 2:48:24
  Speaker 2: and said, yeah, that's not what happened in the first
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 2: time around, and why didn't we get to hear all that?
• 2:48:28
  Speaker 2: Why are you keeping ship from me? But they didn't.
• 2:48:31
  Speaker 2: They did their job based on the information they were
• 2:48:35
  Speaker 2: allowed to use.
• 2:48:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and I.
• 2:48:40
  Speaker 2: Could have given them death.
• 2:48:42
  Speaker 4: But.
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 1: We haven't.
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 2: They haven't put anyone to death in I mean, they
• 2:48:47
  Speaker 2: haven't put anyone to death in California. Death in California
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 2: means life without pearl. Yes, so, but I will say
• 2:48:59
  Speaker 2: as of today, okay, Lyl and Eric are serving their
• 2:49:04
  Speaker 2: sentence together at the Richard J. Donovan Correctional Facility in
• 2:49:10
  Speaker 2: San Diego, which I still find shocking because normally they
• 2:49:17
  Speaker 2: keep people apart who commit a crime together so I
• 2:49:20
  Speaker 2: do find that kind of interesting that they have them together,
• 2:49:24
  Speaker 2: but both are described as model prisoners guys. They I
• 2:49:29
  Speaker 2: mean took some time to settle in and shock, which
• 2:49:33
  Speaker 2: I can understand, but they've worked to help improve the
• 2:49:36
  Speaker 2: prison environment. They actively work with other victims of sexual abuse.
• 2:49:42
  Speaker 2: Lyle served as the president of the Inmate Government for
• 2:49:46
  Speaker 2: the past twenty years. So a lot of people go
• 2:49:50
  Speaker 2: to prison if they're life without parole, they just give up,
• 2:49:55
  Speaker 2: They become thuggish, they do drug I mean, they don't conform. Well,
• 2:50:00
  Speaker 2: We've got to say these two seem to have done
• 2:50:04
  Speaker 2: a decent job of maybe growing up and becoming good people,
• 2:50:10
  Speaker 2: you know now, Lyle, Yeah.
• 2:50:15
  Speaker 1: No, I was just saying, like, for a lot of people,
• 2:50:20
  Speaker 1: you know, they're like, yeah, criminals, some criminals just need
• 2:50:23
  Speaker 1: some structure and it's something that that that's what they
• 2:50:26
  Speaker 1: need and they do well in prison because of that.
• 2:50:28
  Speaker 1: And honestly, I think that their life was such hell
• 2:50:32
  Speaker 1: that this has actually allowed them to grow because they've
• 2:50:35
  Speaker 1: had time to grow, they've had time to reach out,
• 2:50:38
  Speaker 1: which is really honestly, I think that communicates more than
• 2:50:42
  Speaker 1: anything that this is what has allowed them to reach out.
• 2:50:46
  Speaker 1: They've had more of an opportunity.
• 2:50:48
  Speaker 2: So and they So my understanding and I could be wrong,
• 2:50:54
  Speaker 2: but my understanding from thinking about psychology, they probably felt
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 2: safe and they weren't worried about their predator coming in
• 2:51:04
  Speaker 2: every night in jail first time for the first time,
• 2:51:09
  Speaker 2: so it kind of was like that. So Lyle married
• 2:51:13
  Speaker 2: Rebecca in two thousand and three. Now the couple has
• 2:51:16
  Speaker 2: split up but remained very close. Rebecca still runs Lyle's
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 2: Facebook page. So Lyelman Indez has a Facebook page that
• 2:51:27
  Speaker 2: it is great. She talks to him and she posts
• 2:51:30
  Speaker 2: for him.
• 2:51:31
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 2:51:32
  Speaker 2: Eric married Tammy in nineteen ninety nine. They are still
• 2:51:37
  Speaker 2: together and married and reading stories from her. She said,
• 2:51:44
  Speaker 2: everything about the marriage is great. She has a child
• 2:51:49
  Speaker 2: and before him, her child calls him earth Dad, which
• 2:51:55
  Speaker 2: I find because his dad's up in heaven. His dad
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 2: had died or whatever, so he called Eric his earth dad.
• 2:52:02
  Speaker 2: And she said the hardest part is living without sex
• 2:52:07
  Speaker 2: because they are not allowed conjugal visits.
• 2:52:12
  Speaker 1: Well, first, which fuck them for not allowing that, but
• 2:52:15
  Speaker 1: second off, I get it.
• 2:52:18
  Speaker 2: Apparently, if you are in California, if you are life
• 2:52:23
  Speaker 2: without parole, you're not allowed conjugal visits. If you have
• 2:52:26
  Speaker 2: the option for parole or the opportunity, then you're allowed
• 2:52:30
  Speaker 2: to get some. If not, you're not.
• 2:52:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's the exact opposite of what you
• 2:52:35
  Speaker 1: that's what.
• 2:52:38
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 2: But the brothers have a pending court hearing that was
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 2: scheduled for March twentieth and twenty first, but it has
• 2:52:48
  Speaker 2: been put on hold thanks to Gavin Newsom because Gavin
• 2:52:55
  Speaker 2: Newsom's orders, he's asking the State Parole Board to investigate
• 2:53:01
  Speaker 2: whether the brothers would pose a risk to the public
• 2:53:04
  Speaker 2: if they are released. Now what that means and the
• 2:53:08
  Speaker 2: only reason I've dug into this, So for those of
• 2:53:12
  Speaker 2: you that didn't know, we had scheduled to come on
• 2:53:15
  Speaker 2: Live the twentieth and twenty first with this special guest
• 2:53:19
  Speaker 2: who's going to be in the courtroom those days in
• 2:53:22
  Speaker 2: reporting Live for us. But they put this on the
• 2:53:26
  Speaker 2: hold because Newsom could decide to release them.
• 2:53:34
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 2:53:35
  Speaker 2: So if he decides that, there's no reason to have
• 2:53:39
  Speaker 2: that resentencing hearing and can Yeah, I just.
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention one. It's interesting to me.
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 1: I almost feel like that does them a disservice. There
• 2:53:53
  Speaker 1: are four far more people, a greater population of people
• 2:53:56
  Speaker 1: that will be shut up if they go through the
• 2:53:59
  Speaker 1: process and they're released, versus if somebody who is politically
• 2:54:05
  Speaker 1: involved or motivated says let them go, they are I
• 2:54:09
  Speaker 1: feel like they're done more of a justice if they're
• 2:54:13
  Speaker 1: told by the justice system you can go. I wouldn't.
• 2:54:18
  Speaker 1: I don't see a benefit to this.
• 2:54:20
  Speaker 2: I would agree, except the new DA coming in because
• 2:54:24
  Speaker 2: his predecessor put this in action and he thinks they
• 2:54:28
  Speaker 2: should have been released. He is hands down for political
• 2:54:33
  Speaker 2: reasons saying no, you should let the jury's decision stand.
• 2:54:38
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit what new evidence has come up.
• 2:54:41
  Speaker 9: So he.
• 2:54:43
  Speaker 2: Is politically So that's the only because normally I would
• 2:54:47
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent agree with you. But if this is
• 2:54:50
  Speaker 2: their only chance, they've served thirty years for what they did.
• 2:54:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, context is everything now now I get it.
• 2:55:00
  Speaker 2: So so, but the media has a lot of other
• 2:55:04
  Speaker 2: things to say.
• 2:55:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of the public perception,
• 2:55:09
  Speaker 1: there were the early media was framing the Meninda's brothers,
• 2:55:14
  Speaker 1: and they painted them as cold blooded, spoiled killers who
• 2:55:17
  Speaker 1: murdered their parents for financial gain. They didn't understand the context.
• 2:55:21
  Speaker 1: It led to widespread, widespread public condemnation. Now the brothers
• 2:55:27
  Speaker 1: were they claimed years of sexual abuse. The public became divided.
• 2:55:31
  Speaker 1: Some still viewed them as greedy and that they were lying.
• 2:55:35
  Speaker 1: Others believed to see them as victims who were speaking
• 2:55:38
  Speaker 1: an escape. Media driven so the coverage overall of their
• 2:55:44
  Speaker 1: emotional breakdown in court, it swayed, swayed some public opinion,
• 2:55:50
  Speaker 1: but many still still doubted their claims due to lack
• 2:55:54
  Speaker 1: of concrete evidence. They kind of thought the whole like
• 2:55:57
  Speaker 1: somebody's cutton onions. Now, the removal in the second trial,
• 2:56:03
  Speaker 1: the removal of the cameras from the courtroom, it led
• 2:56:07
  Speaker 1: to a loss of public engagement and the media interests
• 2:56:10
  Speaker 1: shifted from it, just shifted because they could no longer
• 2:56:17
  Speaker 1: be involved in it. And if you can't be involved
• 2:56:18
  Speaker 1: in it every single day, well why are we a
• 2:56:21
  Speaker 1: part of this. We'll wait for the decision at the end. But,
• 2:56:25
  Speaker 1: like the public perception of the Menendez Brothers trials changed
• 2:56:29
  Speaker 1: over time, and there's so many reasons for this. There's
• 2:56:32
  Speaker 1: new evidence, there's updated cultural attitudes, there's evolving views on
• 2:56:36
  Speaker 1: male sexual abuse, in how society responds to trauma. There's
• 2:56:39
  Speaker 1: an acceptance of the above. You know, I mean, maybe
• 2:56:43
  Speaker 1: they're right, maybe things have changed, Maybe the punishment they
• 2:56:47
  Speaker 1: received didn't consider the mitigating factors, and honestly, I don't
• 2:56:51
  Speaker 1: know if the mitigating factors were even remotely close to
• 2:56:54
  Speaker 1: being considered in this entire trial in either of them,
• 2:56:58
  Speaker 1: to be honest. I mean the first one, sure there
• 2:57:01
  Speaker 1: was a mistrial, but I don't think people were considering
• 2:57:04
  Speaker 1: any of this stuff.
• 2:57:06
  Speaker 2: Well. I think as a society we've grown a little
• 2:57:11
  Speaker 2: bit in that aspect. But what lessons learned I think
• 2:57:16
  Speaker 2: came out of this is that this trial highlighted the
• 2:57:21
  Speaker 2: potential for hidden abuse within families that we don't see
• 2:57:27
  Speaker 2: we all, especially now with Instagram, TikTok, and social media.
• 2:57:32
  Speaker 2: We look at this and think people are living these
• 2:57:35
  Speaker 2: perfect lives because guess what, not everybody posts their bruce
• 2:57:40
  Speaker 2: foot or their self on social media without makeup. They
• 2:57:45
  Speaker 2: want to look like they're living this perfect life. So
• 2:57:48
  Speaker 2: I think that case is a reminder to us not
• 2:57:52
  Speaker 2: everything is what it seems right, And it also showed
• 2:57:56
  Speaker 2: how media coverage can influence the public opinions, because I
• 2:58:04
  Speaker 2: think that was a big deal. I also think the
• 2:58:08
  Speaker 2: roles of psychologists, and they're experts in explaining what trauma
• 2:58:14
  Speaker 2: is and what and how it affects people has become
• 2:58:19
  Speaker 2: more prevalent since then, not saying I don't think you
• 2:58:24
  Speaker 2: still can't go subject matter expert shopping to find one
• 2:58:30
  Speaker 2: that you want that says what you want them to say,
• 2:58:33
  Speaker 2: you know. But I also think this was one of
• 2:58:36
  Speaker 2: those very complex legal trials with two juries, two sets
• 2:58:43
  Speaker 2: of attorneys, but all in court together, two sets of
• 2:58:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I want to sit on a jury. I
• 2:58:50
  Speaker 2: am so thankful it was not this jury. Okay, I'm
• 2:58:54
  Speaker 2: going to just say thankful it wasn't that. I also
• 2:58:58
  Speaker 2: think this trial raises childhood trauma and how it can
• 2:59:04
  Speaker 2: affect your behavior, because if you were raised your entire life,
• 2:59:10
  Speaker 2: I mean it's not like they had this trauma for
• 2:59:12
  Speaker 2: two years. This was their entire life. And I think
• 2:59:18
  Speaker 2: we learned a little bit more of how that can be.
• 2:59:24
  Speaker 2: So now I think we learned a lot from this trial,
• 2:59:33
  Speaker 2: but I also think we still have a lot more
• 2:59:37
  Speaker 2: to learn. Yeah, so what did you think about? What
• 2:59:45
  Speaker 2: are your overall thoughts about this case?
• 2:59:50
  Speaker 1: So I think that I don't know. I think that
• 2:59:54
  Speaker 1: this case, I think it exists in kind of this
• 2:59:57
  Speaker 1: murky gray space between justice and tragedy. I mean, guilt
• 3:00:02
  Speaker 1: is I mean, that's undeniable, but the full weight of
• 3:00:05
  Speaker 1: the story is it's kind of unsettled. I think there's
• 3:00:09
  Speaker 1: no question that they committed a brutal, calculated act. I
• 3:00:13
  Speaker 1: think we've said that it was one that should not
• 3:00:16
  Speaker 1: have gone unpunished, for sure. But I mean to look
• 3:00:20
  Speaker 1: at their actions and isolation as though they were I
• 3:00:24
  Speaker 1: don't know, as long as though they were merely greedy
• 3:00:27
  Speaker 1: killers eager to cash in on an inheritance. Well, that's
• 3:00:32
  Speaker 1: to ignore the deeply complex and painful reality of their upbringing,
• 3:00:38
  Speaker 1: the abuse.
• 3:00:39
  Speaker 5: They endured, and the fear that they lived with every
• 3:00:43
  Speaker 5: single day. I mean that causes scars that you can't
• 3:00:48
  Speaker 5: see on the outside.
• 3:00:51
  Speaker 1: And recognizing you know that those scars would help you
• 3:00:55
  Speaker 1: recognize that something's wrong, but you can't see them. And
• 3:00:57
  Speaker 1: those scars weren't simply con venient defense strategies, but they
• 3:01:03
  Speaker 1: were lived experiences, and they were ones that would be handled.
• 3:01:07
  Speaker 1: I think they would be handled differently if this case
• 3:01:10
  Speaker 1: were tried today. Justice for me is not just about
• 3:01:14
  Speaker 1: punishing wrongdoing. It's about understanding the full context in which
• 3:01:19
  Speaker 1: the wrongdoing occurred. The menendas brothers should have been held accountable,
• 3:01:25
  Speaker 1: but I can't help, but feel that the system at
• 3:01:28
  Speaker 1: the time was unequipped to reckon with what led the
• 3:01:33
  Speaker 1: brothers to that faithful night Again, had their trial taken
• 3:01:38
  Speaker 1: place in a time more willing to well, willing to
• 3:01:42
  Speaker 1: acknowledge the lasting impact of abuse, drama, and course of control,
• 3:01:47
  Speaker 1: their sentence might have reflected something closer to justice, not
• 3:01:51
  Speaker 1: just for their parents, but for the broken children that
• 3:01:54
  Speaker 1: they had been before they ever picked up a shotgun.
• 3:01:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I don't know. Overall, I feel like
• 3:02:03
  Speaker 1: this trial wasn't really about justice or truth. I feel
• 3:02:07
  Speaker 1: like it was all about performance. The attorneys were well,
• 3:02:10
  Speaker 1: they're certainly committed to the bit. The media ate it
• 3:02:13
  Speaker 1: up because well, apparently nothing sells quite like rich kids.
• 3:02:18
  Speaker 2: So you know, something just occurred to me. I can't
• 3:02:24
  Speaker 2: help but wonder if keeping the secret was even more
• 3:02:30
  Speaker 2: desired because they were wealthy talking about the kids because
• 3:02:37
  Speaker 2: their parents would cut them off, quit paying for college tennis,
• 3:02:42
  Speaker 2: And I mean that just dawned on me. So I'm
• 3:02:45
  Speaker 2: sure there was a financial piece. And I want to
• 3:02:49
  Speaker 2: first say so that people don't come at me, but
• 3:02:52
  Speaker 2: if you want to have a conversation, we share my
• 3:02:54
  Speaker 2: email all the time because I'm not making excuses or
• 3:02:58
  Speaker 2: trying to justify what Lyle and Eric did. But I
• 3:03:03
  Speaker 2: want to say I think the abuse they suffered growing
• 3:03:06
  Speaker 2: up should have been front and center in the trial.
• 3:03:11
  Speaker 2: And I think the amount of trauma that they received
• 3:03:15
  Speaker 2: in their own home by their own parents should have
• 3:03:20
  Speaker 2: been taken into consideration. It's not an excuse, but it
• 3:03:25
  Speaker 2: should be taken into consideration. I mean, let's stop and
• 3:03:28
  Speaker 2: look at Gypsy Rose. Totally two different types of cases.
• 3:03:35
  Speaker 2: But the concept of being abused and trapped by the
• 3:03:39
  Speaker 2: people who are supposed to love you and keep you safe,
• 3:03:44
  Speaker 2: I mean should say a lot. And also by your mother. Yes,
• 3:03:49
  Speaker 2: I know fathers are important. I'm not saying they're not.
• 3:03:52
  Speaker 2: But the person who gave birth and brought you into
• 3:03:55
  Speaker 2: this world and gave you true life should have tucted
• 3:04:00
  Speaker 2: you in taking care of you. I mean that's just
• 3:04:05
  Speaker 2: my thoughts. Okay, So I think that should have been
• 3:04:10
  Speaker 2: taken into consideration. Now, I do think they should should
• 3:04:16
  Speaker 2: have been held accountable for the actions, Okay. I don't
• 3:04:20
  Speaker 2: think they deserve life in prison without parole. I don't, Okay.
• 3:04:25
  Speaker 2: I think we also need to look at very seldom
• 3:04:30
  Speaker 2: do we hear about people who did good things while
• 3:04:33
  Speaker 2: in prison. I mean, it's very seldom that you hear
• 3:04:39
  Speaker 2: they didn't have all of this stuff against them. They
• 3:04:42
  Speaker 2: weren't bucking the rules, they weren't put into solitary confinement.
• 3:04:47
  Speaker 2: I think we should look at that. And I said earlier,
• 3:04:52
  Speaker 2: I can't help but wonder how much peace they finally
• 3:04:57
  Speaker 2: found in prison behind me bars, knowing that their parents
• 3:05:02
  Speaker 2: could no longer hurt them. And that right there tells
• 3:05:07
  Speaker 2: you that, in my opinion, they've done their time. And I, yeah,
• 3:05:14
  Speaker 2: there's no other parents out there. They're not going to
• 3:05:17
  Speaker 2: hurt anyone else.
• 3:05:19
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no. I I agree with you wholeheartedly.
• 3:05:24
  Speaker 1: I think it'll be interesting to see what what happened.
• 3:05:29
  Speaker 2: Oh right, I forgot Susan Smith did get a parole hearing.
• 3:05:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, and she murdered her. Oh yeah, that one's yeah,
• 3:05:39
  Speaker 2: she should have got life without pearole.
• 3:05:41
  Speaker 1: That was quite a parole hearing, by the way, I
• 3:05:43
  Speaker 1: know what.
• 3:05:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. She should have not even had the
• 3:05:46
  Speaker 2: option for parole.
• 3:05:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a Those are always way of
• 3:05:51
  Speaker 1: like roller coasters of emotions. You're like pissed when they talk,
• 3:05:54
  Speaker 1: and then the victims start talking again, and you're just like,
• 3:05:58
  Speaker 1: which makes sense, It's appropriate.
• 3:06:00
  Speaker 2: Now I did so oh sorry, I did do an
• 3:06:05
  Speaker 2: episode about Susan Smith on Dearest Mother's Darkest Secrets that
• 3:06:09
  Speaker 2: they can go and watch that we talk about that case.
• 3:06:12
  Speaker 2: That case or that show is on hiatus right now.
• 3:06:16
  Speaker 2: That Susan Smith was one that I covered.
• 3:06:20
  Speaker 1: Awesome, So yeah, definitely can pick out Next week.
• 3:06:25
  Speaker 2: Jeez, yes, next week we have James aut Guilt will
• 3:06:32
  Speaker 2: be on our show as a guest to be interviewed.
• 3:06:35
  Speaker 2: He is retired Police of Chief Naval Police. I mean,
• 3:06:40
  Speaker 2: he got so much law enforcement stuff. I'm just gonna
• 3:06:43
  Speaker 2: say law enforcement, and he will share his insight, and
• 3:06:46
  Speaker 2: so far it doesn't seem like anything is off the table.
• 3:06:50
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna talk about stuff he did in his career. Also,
• 3:06:55
  Speaker 2: his thoughts about defunding police. Good cops, cops bad apples because,
• 3:07:02
  Speaker 2: as they say all of the time, you can have
• 3:07:04
  Speaker 2: good people and bad people in any type of job. Okay,
• 3:07:09
  Speaker 2: let's just be honest, any type of job.
• 3:07:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't look at the basket, though.
• 3:07:16
  Speaker 2: You do, you do the basket, but but you can't
• 3:07:19
  Speaker 2: say the whole police department's bad. You can say oh
• 3:07:23
  Speaker 2: this spread to everybody.
• 3:07:27
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I don't know. We'll see what happens.
• 3:07:30
  Speaker 2: General statement and say every law enforcement police department needs
• 3:07:34
  Speaker 2: to be defunded. That would be like saying all podcasters
• 3:07:38
  Speaker 2: need to be shut down just because of the two
• 3:07:40
  Speaker 2: of us.
• 3:07:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think you know what. I'd like to make
• 3:07:46
  Speaker 1: a boulder ripple in a pond, but I yeah, okay,
• 3:07:51
  Speaker 1: Well listen, hey, listen, Uh, thank you. This has been
• 3:07:54
  Speaker 1: a marathon. I just want to remind you guys that
• 3:07:57
  Speaker 1: we're doing the Zizzy and callt episode one this Sunday
• 3:08:00
  Speaker 1: at nine Eastern. If you have any suggestions for cases
• 3:08:05
  Speaker 1: beyond Zizion or Menendez, et cetera. If you have something
• 3:08:09
  Speaker 1: you want you want talked about, please send case suggestions
• 3:08:12
  Speaker 1: to producer Tara Tara at TCWT media dot com. And
• 3:08:17
  Speaker 1: please please please like subscribe, hit the notification bell because
• 3:08:22
  Speaker 1: that's a big deal. And and become a member because
• 3:08:24
  Speaker 1: we do a lot of things for our members. Yeah,
• 3:08:28
  Speaker 1: go ahead.
• 3:08:28
  Speaker 2: We have a member special coming up either the twenty
• 3:08:31
  Speaker 2: other or twenty first, I forget the date, but we
• 3:08:34
  Speaker 2: have a special coming up on the twenty first at night,
• 3:08:39
  Speaker 2: excuse me, nine pm Eastern for our members only. You
• 3:08:43
  Speaker 2: thought this one off the rails. That's really going to
• 3:08:46
  Speaker 2: go off the rails because it is just all of
• 3:08:49
  Speaker 2: us sitting and chatting. You get to decide what we
• 3:08:52
  Speaker 2: talk about.
• 3:08:54
  Speaker 1: Yep. Also follow us on all social media and well
• 3:08:59
  Speaker 1: you know what We're just Tarah wants to say good
• 3:09:03
  Speaker 1: night because he goes and watches the new Severance episodes.
• 3:09:06
  Speaker 1: So she's ready to go, and so are we. So Terry,
• 3:09:10
  Speaker 1: I'll let you close out and then I'll close out.
• 3:09:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, I just want to say, guys, please stay safe,
• 3:09:16
  Speaker 2: speak up if you see something. Something I'm learning with
• 3:09:20
  Speaker 2: Midday Missing, we need to be better about speaking up
• 3:09:24
  Speaker 2: if we see something. And most importantly, enjoy your wine
• 3:09:28
  Speaker 2: time and my beautiful pink knives that I'm not gonna
• 3:09:31
  Speaker 2: touch since I cut my finger.
• 3:09:34
  Speaker 1: Oh jeez, all right, thanks for tuning in. Everybody, please
• 3:09:37
  Speaker 1: take care of yourselves, your friends, your family and community.
• 3:09:39
  Speaker 1: Don't let anybody do all your sparkle and shine on
• 3:09:42
  Speaker 1: you crazy diamonds, shine on. We'll see you. Sunday, nine
• 3:09:45
  Speaker 1: pm Eastern, eight pm CenTra