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AI is for Humans · In The Business of Humans

• speaker-0: What do you get when you take a former manager and report combo who are now real life friends? One, a management coach and sudden viral internet star who shoots from the hip and the other a CX exec turned advisor who overthinks everything? This podcast. Welcome to the business of humans. I'm Joe, founder of CX Joe advisory and the overthinker. My partner in crime is Linda. She's the founder of leveled up leadership and the internet star. Join us as we talk about business, relationships, humanity. success and also failure through the lens of friendship, heaps of radical transparency and honesty and zero BS. Let's get started with today's episode. Hi Joe. Hello Linda, how are doing today? speaker-1: I'm well, how are you? speaker-0: Well, you know the answer to that question. I am incredibly fired up and excited. ⁓ As I always mentioned to our listeners, ⁓ podcast recording day is always an exciting day in my life. ⁓ And today more than ever, because I think today's episode is going to be pretty momentous. Do you agree with that? speaker-1: I do agree. And I'm so excited because number one, it's the end of season one. Yeah. You and I made it. Ten whole episodes. speaker-0: Yes, 1 finale. And we haven't even killed each other yet. speaker-1: Well, it's probably because we don't live in the same state. Right. speaker-0: Right, we're not in the same room, but not only because of that. speaker-1: Yeah, but we did it. We did the thing we committed to and we're already planning season two. So the world is not sick of us yet. I shared with you earlier in the week, we had some pretty cool wins. ⁓ We were, I was looking on a platform called ListenNotes and we're in the top 10 % of podcasts out of like three million, I want to say we were in the top 10%. So I was like, take it. know. speaker-0: Top 10 % and we have no idea what we're doing. So there's that. speaker-1: Imagine if we knew what we were doing, we'd conquering the world again. ⁓ So really excited about that. And I think that I really, what I think that it is, is really kind of, you know, not to get too businessy talk, but it really feels like proof of concept, right? I feel so strongly that there's such an appetite for talking about almost like the mundane. I mean, I like to think that I'm more interested in the mundane, but we are talking about like the inner workings of work. And we're talking about how we're navigating these things that work and how we're, we're expecting better and developing better teams. Right. And so I, again, I just think it's proof of concept that people want to talk about work because again, I say this so frequently, we don't talk about work in a meaningful way. We complain about work or we put on our corporate jargon. But we're not talking about work in a meaningful way. And again, I think that that's just proof of concept. So I was all about seeing that information this week. speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. It's it's true. There have been some great wins recently. And we like to joke on the podcast about the day that we'll have millions of listeners and, we'll see if that comes to be or not. But I think what's also happened the last week or two for me is getting personal notes from people and they range all across the US or is even a former colleague and skip report of mine in Europe, who's letting me know that she listens as soon as each episode comes out. It just means a lot to her and she enjoys our transparency and humanity. So that was very cool to hear, too. speaker-1: of that. And this episode is a little special, right? Aside from just being our season finale, and we have a special guest star that you're going to introduce very excited about. But this is also marking a first for our podcast. So do you want to tell the people about the first for our podcast? speaker-0: ⁓ I would love to Linda, you know it, I was kind of listening off what's special about today's episode. So we ticked off, know, season one finale. We have an amazing guest today named Aria Finger who will properly introduce very soon. It's also another first on the show that it's our first foray into AI on the show. We've talked about humanity in the workplace in so many different regards of, you know, management and workplace situations and networking and personal branding and so many other things. But we felt like we couldn't wrap up season one looking at humanity in the workplace and just all the sort of implications and dynamics of the modern workplace without talking about AI. So we want to really go from not focusing on a ton to dedicating today's episode on AI still in the lens of humanity. ⁓ So we'll get into all of that all episode. And another big first for the pod is this is actually our first sponsored episode. ⁓ Wow. that's Kind of crazy and cool in season one. speaker-1: That's so cool. I'm so excited. And I'm excited to talk about our sponsor because I think that it might strike somebody as controversial until they really understand it. Would you agree, Joe? speaker-0: Yeah, I would agree. And, you know, we like to give our listeners just a little sense of sort of the dynamics between us and kind of the build up to each episode and the whole season. So I remember earlier on, really, when we were planning out the podcast, talking more about technology and AI is something that we talked about potentially doing my life and my work outside the podcast as my CX Joe advisory actually delves very heavily into AI and helping businesses choose the right AI partners and so forth. But I am somebody who is very much, I think, crowded in humanity. I'm the over thinker. I'm the English major. So I have had to think about how to come to terms with all this quite a lot. But I remember early on, Linda mentioning to you like, hey, maybe eventually we do an AI episode. also mentioned to you, hey, maybe eventually we have a sponsor. And you really keep us honest. And I think your response and kind of the ground rules were as long as it makes sense, like it's got to actually make sense for the theme and the heart and the core of the podcast, is humanity. ⁓ So you know, like I mentioned before, AI is here, I don't think we could change that. My view is to lean in to become educated, figure out how to leverage and actually celebrate AI, but to make sure ⁓ to do that in a way that is not at the cost of humanity. So what does that actually mean? We'll delve into that all episode. ⁓ As far as the sponsor and how that actually fits in, and how Linda and I actually start to feel good about that, the sponsor of today's episode is Applied Labs AI. ⁓ Basically, I think they embody this kind of celebration and leverage of AI while leaning into humanity perfectly. So what do they do? They're basically the modern CX leaders, AI partner. They guarantee AI outcomes across the customer journey. They work with a lot of the most successful brands out there and many more joining every week. So they help companies leverage AI for things like customer support, sales conversion, retention, insights, and much more. But what I would say, and I do know these guys pretty well from Michael, who are the founder, Terry Lee is the founding head of Ops. What really drew me to them and kind of doing some work with them and Linda and I to embracing them as our first sponsor is they really do keep the humanity in their work. It's the quality of interactions they're driving with customers. It's having great humans on their team ⁓ and their strong focus on empowering other humans. And I think that's as evidenced by, you know, one, the way that they empower clients that they work with, but also as evidenced by their support of me and Linda as to, you know, people trying to do it on their own as solopreneurs, so to speak, former CX executives, and now aspiring podcast stars, you know, they're really jumping in early with us to support us. We appreciate it a ton. So you could learn more at appliedlabs.ai or you could reach out to me and Linda for an intro. I think if you speak to them in one conversation, you'll really feel the difference. Okay, back to it. I think it's speaker-1: Go ahead. speaker-0: I was going to say I'm really, really eager to welcome our guests, but now I'm really, really eager to know what else is on your mind. speaker-1: Yeah, I was going to say one other plug for applied. You know, I got on the phone with Terry lovely and I mean, lovely human. Yeah. And I think he and I probably could have talked management and leadership. I think he probably would have loved to have been on last week's episode where we talked about the difference between management leadership. Yes. But one thing and one thing that, you know, when you were when you and I were having this conversation about does it make sense? What does that look and feel like? Right. Like And then we're talking about humans and should we, should we talk about something that all of the humans are afraid of? Right. And I do think one thing that I talk a lot about is how we need to identify. We have to name something before we can work through something. We have to name it. Right. And so if it's the elephant in the room, we really should be talking about it. Right. But the one thing when I was like, ⁓ I don't know if we should do this thing. I met with Terry and I I spoke with you after and something that really struck me. As you said, Linda, you don't understand every single time that they onboard a partner or they're getting on the call with somebody. They're like, how can we service you? Right? How can we be there for you? How can we make your experience better? They're not opening with how can we be more efficient? How can we save you money? It's how can we service you? How can we help you? And I think that if we have that spirit that runs through AI. and understanding that spirit and understanding that it's only as good as the input anyway, right? Like if we are trying to eliminate so many things, then yes, we're losing the humanity. But the thing that struck me so much about this particular company was I could feel the humanity coming through, even though we, we, it's got an AI label on it. So that's why I'm excited about this partner. speaker-0: That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that, Linda. And I'm sure they will appreciate you share that as well. All right. So next up in our agenda for the episode is to welcome and hopefully start out by embarrassing our special guest a little bit only from the standpoint of celebrating some of her accolades. But for anyone who's going to be watching today's episode, Linda, maybe we could bring Aria Finger on and I'll let you work on that. There she is. Welcome, Aria. speaker-2: Thanks so much. So excited. speaker-0: We are so excited as well. And I think that you were loathe to ⁓ help out with some of your bio info, but me and Linda really insisted because, ⁓ you know, I've gotten to know Aria pretty well and now Linda, but we want to make sure our listeners know a little bit about you. So here goes Aria Finger, ⁓ current jobs are basically chief of staff for Reid Hoffman and the cohost of the possible podcast. More broadly for the past 15 years, Aria has worked right at this intersection of social impact, technology and the corporate worlds while developing a deep expertise in management, business strategy and purpose at scale. So like I mentioned, you Aria are currently chief of staff to the legendary entrepreneur, philanthropist and investor, Reid Hoffman, ⁓ working across his portfolio. I think a lot of people, and I only know about the breadth of everything that Reid and his office and you focus on through you. But working across his portfolio of investments, philanthropic pursuits, political engagements, content efforts and more, you are also the co-host of the Possible Podcast. So we hope to delve into that a little bit on our episode of In the Business of Humans Today, fellow podcast hosts. The Possible Podcast is a pretty big deal, so we'll talk about that. ⁓ And also very, very relevant to today's episode, ⁓ Ari is an active voice in the AI community. both on the investment side as well as in discussions of its impact on humanity. Look at that, Linda, how perfect is that? Aria is also board director at Emilio, a nonprofit focused on ending mass incarceration. This is around the part I'll start to just pick out some highlights, mainly because Aria will be furious with me if I keep reading in as much detail, but also worked her way up from entry level associate to CEO at dosomething.org, which is an amazing organization. It was then the largest global organization for youth and social change. Your signature Teens for Jeans campaign was insane and closed half of all homeless youth, which is again insane. And also launching Do Something's Voter Engagement Program, registering over 350,000 young voters leading up to the 2020 election. Fundraising expert have raised over $40 million through partnerships with Fortune 100 companies. Got the academics here. going executive education programs at Stanford, Harvard, and UVA's Frank L. Batten Public Policy School, which the last one being a racial equity executive educational program, super inspiring, adjunct professor at NYU. And something, Arya, that I felt a deep bond with you about is I saw also that you graduated magna cum laude in economics from Washington University. That's an incredible bond we have because I was waitlisted to Washington University. So, I mean, what are the odds of that? So we should talk about that. Without further ado, welcome to the podcast again. That's quite a resume. speaker-2: Joe, you are too much. I am lucky to have known Joe for decades now. And Linda, I've heard such amazing things from Joe. So I'm so delighted to be here. speaker-1: Yeah, well, I'm delighted. He has like talked about you, I think, since we started the podcast. He's like, okay, how can we my friend, Orion? How can we talk to her? And I was like, I don't know, Joe, you could ask her. And he did and it worked out. So I love this for us. speaker-0: This is great. This is great. ⁓ I promised Dario just do like light highlights on the resume. I might be hearing about that later, but again, you deserve it. It's really awesome to celebrate your incredible career. And, you know, we're going to go on a little bit of a journey today over the next 40, 45 minutes. We'll want to talk a little bit about life, career, humanity, kind of focusing on the humanity and humanity and AI part first, talk about the, you know, our fellow podcasts. and then really get into this, the main course of how to keep humanity in AI. Aria, I'd love to start out again, just with our listeners getting to know you as a human a little bit. Actually, the last part of your bio is she lives in Brooklyn with her husband and three rambunctious children. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about you as a human and kind of how you juggle it all. speaker-2: So, you know what? I'm going to be spicy right at the top. The way that men have gotten ahead for hundreds of years is that they had stay-at-home wives. And if you look at the Fortune 500, I'm going to get the stats a little wrong because this is from four or five years ago, but it was something like 90 % of the men who were Fortune 500 CEOs had stay-at-home wives. And 50 % of the women who are Fortune 500 CEOs didn't have kids at all. So it was, if you were a man, you could have a stay at home wife and help you. And that's how you could do everything. You could go to dinners, you could travel, you could do all the things. And I was at Do Something and I was CEO and we had two young kids. And then about four or five years ago, I was offered the chance to be Chief of Staff to read Hoffman. And I jumped at the chance, but I was really scared. I actually cried. I was so nervous. had just given birth to a three month old and I wanted this job, but he lived across the country and what we were going to do. And my wonderful husband, who Joe knows well, said, well, I'll stay home with the kids. Like, I love our kids. Why don't I stay home with them for a little bit while you focus on the career part? And we all have seasons in our careers when we're leaning in more or leaning out or doing some things we need to make a little more money or doing some things that feeds our soul. Hopefully you can get them all in one. ⁓ But that is one of the reasons I do it all. And so I feel very blessed that my husband does the amazing work of taking care of the kids. I call him the lead parent. And then it helps me travel when I need to travel and do what I need to do. speaker-0: That's me. speaker-1: You're so much nicer to your husband than I was when I lived internationally. When my family and I lived in Argentina, called my husband the house husband and he's fine. He's got thick skin. ⁓ But I was like, where's my glass of wine? I just walked in the door. Because when you're in Argentina, all you drink is wine. ⁓ speaker-2: Sure. speaker-1: And so was like, where's my glasses? So you're so much nicer. You call him the lead parent. I love that. ⁓ I'm so mean. He's got thick skin. speaker-0: But I the concept of chapters to, you know, in career and life, I think it's something we think about a lot in this podcast and talk a lot about as well. ⁓ My wife and I, we're both in a chapter right now of being more kind of solopreneurs. She's in the medical field, but we both are kind of out on our own. And so sometimes we question our sanity of like, what are the two chapters supposed to line up this way? But, you know, we all we all figure it out. We all figure it out. Aria arounds, you know, we had an episode ⁓ earlier this season around boundaries. And Linda and I were talking about like how we try to, you know, you're juggling work and life. I've never really found the expression work life balance really captures it. I had mentors earlier in my career who taught me like, you know what, I love what I do. And that's kind of the goal. And I love like catching up on emails at nine or meeting with my team or whatever it might be. ⁓ And you somehow always seem so calm, nonplussed about it all. Like, oh, yeah, how was that crazy day of travel or like, you had social plans ending at 11. We're on a flight four hours later. Like, yeah, just totally all good. Like, how do you pull it off from that standpoint? And like, do you actually do you actually think about boundaries? Or do you to approach it more organically? speaker-2: So I think one of the things for me is I actually don't need a lot of downtime and I don't need a lot of switching. Like I know a lot of people talk about how after work they need the 20 minute walk home or they need the subway ride, they need to sort of switch gears. ⁓ And I don't feel that way at all. ⁓ I feel like I can like go right into one or the other, which maybe makes me a little crazy. ⁓ But I think that in some ways, a lot of people love mixing it all. Like they say they like, you for instance, if they work from home, they say they like working from home because then they can chat with the kids and then they can do their laundry and then they can and I actually feel totally different. Until very recently, I had an office that I went to every day. And so even though I could have been home at three o'clock when the kids came home and gave him a hug, I would prefer to be at the office. I would prefer to say nine to 6pm. I am at the office for a few reasons. Like one is that I don't have to say to the kids all the time. ⁓ I'm up. You know, I would love to do that puzzle with you, but like, mommy's got to go jump on a work call. No, it's like out of sight, out of mind. Like mom's at the office. And so I don't know. I find that actually very helpful. Some people don't find that helpful at all. They sort of love the mixing and matching and mingling. ⁓ and I don't like it that way. I like actually having it fairly separate. That being said, I also love the flexibility of right. Last night I jumped on a call at 9 PM. Would I prefer not to? Sure. ⁓ But instead of like, you know, flying to Boston or running to the office, the fact that you can jump on a zoom call at 9pm right after I get the kids to bed, you know, I think that's a dream. So I think people do things differently and sort of in different facets of work and life. Sometimes I like to mix and sometimes I really prefer them separate. speaker-0: I think that's a great segue into my next little topic here. So, you know, we went over there your whole intro and being chief of staff to read Hoffman. What an aura around a job like that. You know, even when I had normal everyday jobs, I was like the director of CX or the VP of CX or this or that brand, like you talk to people and say, Oh, cool. I'm the head of public. Oh, great. You know, your job titles a lot of or is pretty cool. I think some of our listeners might be wondering. how does someone get to have ⁓ this job? And then also if I could keep on what is sort of the day to day or week to week look like in a job like this. speaker-2: Sure. So I think chief of staff in some ways is a lot like COO in that it can mean very different things depending on who the principal is. Often you're a COO sort of in relation to what the CEO is good at. I think you're a chief of staff sort of depending on who your principal is. And I was speaking at this funny chief of staff conference last summer and I bring it up because I asked the room, there was about 50 people. They were mostly chief of staffs to like series B and C technology companies from all over. the US, but a lot based in New York because the conference was in New York. I said, you know, raise your hand if you knew the principal, usually the CEO, ahead of time before you got the chief of staff job. And only half of people raised their hands, which really surprised me because back when I was the CEO of Do Something, I was looking for a chief of staff. And there was this amazing young woman who was on our BD team. And she had sort of grown out of the role and she was ready to leave. And I said, ⁓ no, don't leave. come be my chief of staff for two years, and after two years, I'll help you go get a great job somewhere else. And sort of that model worked really well that I knew her, she was awesome. It was a way to keep her in the organization. And so I think about half the time, people really do pull someone that they already know and trust because I think that trust is so critical, but half the time people just apply cold. And in this instance in particular, Reid had been on the board of Do Something. He had been a Do Something donor, so I had pitched him a few times. ⁓ But I didn't know him well. We had a lot of mutual friends. And so certainly we needed to build that trust. ⁓ And that makes you nervous. Are you going to get along? Is it going to work? And I feel incredibly lucky ⁓ that we just have a fantastic relationship. speaker-0: That's amazing. speaker-2: ⁓ that's about the day to day. Yeah. speaker-0: Well, I'm terrible. That's my special. I threw about two or three questions at you at once. As the episode goes on, it might turn into five or 10. speaker-2: All good. Just, just remind me and I totally forget. ⁓ So like you said, my day to day, the fun thing about it is it's so diverse. So I'm often sort of the first, you know, email for folks who are pitching tech startups or folks who want read to be an LP in their fund. And so I get to see a lot of very cool and sort of new ideas that are coming in. You know, I get to work with ⁓ speaker-0: I love that, I'm so jealous. speaker-2: incredible people like ⁓ Sean Mendy at Westbound Equity. They're really trying to invest in underserved entrepreneurs, black and brown entrepreneurs who maybe wouldn't get capital from other places. And so I get to talk to him and strategize and sort of do all that really exciting piece. ⁓ Reid is also very ⁓ invested in politics. And so I'm ⁓ a huge ⁓ news political junkie. And so I get to feel like I'm doing something good for the world because we are ⁓ focused on making the United States in particular a better place. And so I'm talking to candidates and talking to the politics team, which is exciting. ⁓ I also oversee his sort of comm structure. So that includes the possible podcasts that we get to do, which is super fun. He came out with a book last year called Super Agency. And so I sort of shepherded that with a team. Again, none of this is me. This is all with an amazing team around me. ⁓ to get sort of the word out about how, you know, it's called super agency, what could possibly go right with our AI future. So like, how do we shoot towards like, good stuff. And then I'm sure there's a million other things, but probably lastly, ⁓ Reed is also a big philanthropist. And so I get to support just incredible NGOs and you know, at do something, I was a fundraiser for 15 years. And so it's really fun to be on the other side to call people and say like, guess what, like we're in, we're so excited. And then probably even more important than the money, figure out how, like the network is so important. How do we introduce these entrepreneurs and NGOs to other people who can help them out, get them in the right rooms, introduce them to other funding. I think sort of that network piece is a huge part of my previous job and my current job and just sort of my belief on how the world works. speaker-0: Yeah, it's kind of a wild intersection of I know a lot of things that you're passionate about and amazing at and have focused on your life and career. So ⁓ pretty awesome. ⁓ Linda, before we talk about the possible podcast a little more, do you have any questions for Aria about life and being human beings? speaker-1: no, I mean, your story is just so, I think it's so inspiring and, know, sadly there aren't enough women in positions like yours. And I think it's so great. And I love it. I almost feel like as I listened to your story, and this is more of just a comment, not really a question as I listened to your story, I'm like, I don't think anybody other than a woman could do this. Just. with all the different hats and the different, like the switching gears and the way that it sounds like you have to prioritize your day and do those things. And I think that this is like for all of the female listeners who are out there, I think like you are the beacon for, you know, like you are that person to be like, yeah, and I can do it and the things are fine. And I know, you know, here are the things. when I was, I was getting anxiety just listening to like, speaker-2: I speaker-1: switching gears again. And I just think it's so great. So I'm just delighted, just delighted that you're here. Trust me, I'm going to come in with some hard questions when we dive in to AI, but this was just more of like, I'm kind of fangirling a little bit. That's all. speaker-0: I feel a little emotional. Anybody else? Okay. That'll be hard to respond to Aria. I will throw your lifeline by switching gears to pod a little bit. So Aria again is co-host with Reed of the Possible Podcast. Aria knows that I'm a very regular listener. Maybe I'll divulge in my next question or two. This was some of the times that I'll text Aria mid or just after listening. But let's start out just to put things in the context and intro the pod a little bit. I wanted to ask you this question, Ari, I don't think I've ever asked you this. Like when you think about the podcast, what do you think it's for? And, you know, so some podcasts are clearly a passion project for some, it's a part of their career, like wealth building scheme. And for others, it's actually to help humanity or maybe some combination of these or something different. What is the possible podcast for? speaker-2: So I'll answer that in two different ways, because I didn't quite, like we set out for this objective, but I didn't quite realize how much it would resonate. So much of the feedback I get from people is like, ⁓ my God, thank God, something positive out there, because the news is so heavy. The news of AI is so heavy. The news of politics is so heavy. The news about the, like, everyone's like, is there anything going right in our world right now? And you know, we don't want to cover up. that some things are going bad. You know what mean? This isn't about sort greenwashing or whitewashing or whatever, but it's about, there's actually some really incredible things going on and there's some really incredible leaders who are doing it. And we're never gonna get the future that we want if we just sort of steer away from the bad future. Like we have to imagine the possible future. And so I think sort of the optimism and positivity is so genuine from both Reed and I and our excitement about what's going on. And so we really seen our listeners that we have sort of a bifurcated camp. On one side, we have tech folks, have entrepreneurs, we hear from startup leaders, and we want to sort of inject a dose of humanity for those folks. Like, yes, it's okay to want to have a billion dollar IPO. Yes, it's okay to want to build this technology, but you can do it while being human. And you can do it while instilling those vibes in your company and your people. And on the other side, I mean, I literally got... Just a few weeks ago, ⁓ someone running for governor in the United States, I won't out him. And he was like, Hey, ⁓ we're designing our AI policy. Can you put me in touch with that guy you had on the podcast two weeks ago? Because I really want to hear it. Can you also put me in touch with Chris from the Brady campaign? Because I want to figure out our gun policy and I'd love to talk to her. And so the other half of our listenership is NGO leaders, government leaders, folks who aren't in the tech sector, ⁓ who want to learn more about technology and the other folks that we have on the pod. And maybe we can get them a little more interested, excited, and knowledgeable about those things that they wouldn't in an accessible way. think sometimes we go down some tech rabbit holes, but I do think for the most part, it's accessible to folks who aren't necessarily steeped technology. speaker-0: Mm hmm. Very cool. ⁓ Amazing. so not you know, not everyone listening and anyone who's listening to our pod and doesn't already follow possible I'm sure will do so right after this episode if they haven't already. If anyone needs any further enticement and ⁓ this will be the closest I come the rest of the episode to embarrassing you one more time aria slash this is going to be like the fan question or two for anyone who does listen to the pod. So go ready for this everyone if you didn't know ⁓ The guests on the possible podcast range everyone from Bill Gates to Sam Altman, the OpenAI founder and CEO, to Stephen Colbert and Trevor Noah, and the head coach Steve Kerr, the CEOs and founders of companies like Reddit, Replet, Microsoft AI, all the Rs, all the companies and believe it or not, that's like that's a morsel. That's that's a very small and probably reveal something about me the ones that I chose. But it's like a who's who and AI technology, business investment, just innovation, life. ⁓ It's incredible. What is the experience like interviewing these folks and what kind of prep goes into it? speaker-2: Yeah, so we have a wonderful sort of head of possible Sean Young who spearheads everything and is so, he's an artist. He wants to make everything so beautiful and so perfect. And so there's tons of research that goes into each episode. How can we both give our listeners like really the feel for the person, but also is there things that we can talk about with them that we don't talk about elsewhere? Can we talk to them about philosophy? Can we talk to them about you know, their childhood, can we talk to them about like what they want for the world? And you know, we always end every episode with like, if everything goes humanity's way, like, what do you think is possible? So we let them dare to dream. a ton of work goes into that. And I am so lucky that I have this fantastic team around me, ⁓ who makes that happen. ⁓ And I think, you know, we want to keep it, we want to keep it interesting. We want to, you know, we want to change it up. talk to different types of people from all walks of life, but always for us keeping sort of AI technology at the center for how we can improve the world. speaker-0: Do you get surprised often while you're recording the pod just in terms of how people answer questions and what perspectives they bring? speaker-2: Absolutely. I also like we try to do as many of them in person as we can. We've sort of just started upping, upping our ante on that. And it's not always possible. I'm always traveling. Reeves always traveling, et cetera. ⁓ But I love meeting people because you, you know, they have a public persona or they're, know, like X, Y, Z, but then you meet them in person and everyone is just a person. Like every single person had a mom and a dad and was born and you know, had a life. And so I do love sort of that. piece of the humanity, which is really exciting. ⁓ And I think the thing that always surprises me again is just the sort of the true like diversity and multiplicity of all people. Like sometimes I'll just be like, ⁓ obviously, you know, this is a tech leader. They're going to talk about technology, you know, for that's the most exciting part. And then, you know, we'll have the CTO of Microsoft and he'll talk about how he like churns butter in his backyard. And that's like one of the most exciting things that he does. And you're like, Wait, what? Like, Kevin, you are so cool. ⁓ And so that's always fun to really get to know the human element of people. speaker-0: I love that. speaker-1: We're basically the same because I also churn. I don't actually turn better. Well, OK, so I kind of do. I really do. So ⁓ true story, I made my own compound butter ⁓ like three weeks ago because I had. So I don't know if you know this. ⁓ Joe, did I tell you this? This is such a great activity. Something shocking kids, it is the best fun, most fun activity to do with your kids. Go get little jars. speaker-0: we've had this butter conversation. speaker-2: it speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: little jars that they can hold in their hands. I don't know how old are your kids six and three Joe? speaker-0: Who me? Seven and four. You really put me on the spot there. I think seven and four. speaker-1: them they could get old. Anyway, so go get like little jars that they can hold in your in their hands. You pour them halfway with heavy whipping cream, right? This is going to give you the best nap ever. And then they just shake it. They just shake it. And it's it's so much fun. I I learned I learned this in like some preschool class when I was five. And I had my my daughter had a project once for speaker-2: Shake it. I love it. I'm doing this today. speaker-1: fifth grade on like colonial times. And so she had to do some kind of recipe and she was going to make Johnny cakes. I'm like, that's boring. Let's teach them how to make butter. And it's, the best lesson they ever had, but seriously, you just shake it and you shake it until it becomes butter. And it's a delightful activity. And if you don't have your gym time in, it's a great workout. So it's like crossing the whole thing. So basically what I'm saying is I'm the CEO of Microsoft. speaker-2: Linda, I have very important question for you. What are Johnny cakes? speaker-1: What? speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: ⁓ they're awful. They're just, they're speaker-0: Is that a British thing? speaker-1: They're well probably means colonial times, but they're very bland. They're just like a baked good that are awful. speaker-2: This is not like a Salt Lake City delight that I don't know. speaker-1: No, no, no. All right. Great. But you know, homemade butter. speaker-2: Amazing. ⁓ no, no, we're gonna we're gonna make it today. We're gonna have one batch be honey butter. One batch will be like salted with something another batch will be maple. I am this is a weekend activity. Thank you. speaker-1: And you put it in the cream so that way you don't have to mix it afterwards. And you know, there's lots of YouTube videos on this. Like you're supposed to like rinse it and do whatever, but because you're pounding the hell out of it in a jar, you don't have to squeeze it because you beat the shit out of it. ⁓ That's incredible. it's just, and it's so fun. And it's something, you know, when the, when the zombie apocalypse happens, the skill that I'm bringing with me is I can make butter. speaker-0: All I was picturing that whole time is all of our kids like licking butter popsicles at the end and it's like a little distracting and horrifying. But so look at that. So Linda and this tech executive at Microsoft, both butter enthusiasts in different ways. And I've heard the opposite happen where you have a guest like Stephen Colbert ⁓ on or Steve Kurt and they actually do have a lot of thoughts on AI. It's not just about like, you know, so I think that's really interesting and Stephen Colbert, I think is one of the times that I texted Aria after and just wrote the words, I hate you, which again, is very telling because there's like the Sam Altman, the Bill Gates episode I was fine with. I was like, wow, this is cool. Good for Aria. And you know, I'm listening and then like, you know, Stephen Colbert, I'm just like, I want to be Aria right now. ⁓ Do you have any favorite episodes or is that like the old proverbial asking someone their favorite kids question? speaker-2: It is true, but I because I love every episode I do. Joe, think you might even know what I'm going to say. One of my favorite episodes is someone who is not a household name and not a famous person. And I'll give the background because he's just so amazing. So 20 years ago, speaker-1: true. speaker-2: when I was at Do Something, we gave out this thing called the Do Something Award. And this was for high school students and college students who did amazing things in their communities. And they got $10,000 to help their organization. And there was a young man at Georgetown, David Fagenbaum, who had lost his mother. And so he started an organization called ⁓ Ailing AMF, Students of Ailing Mother and Fathers. And it was all about creating chapters on college campuses to help college kids who have lost a parent. Because often, sort of like you think of them as like they're adults already and so don't maybe get the care and support they need ⁓ as a younger kid might. And he wanted college students across the country to help grieve for their lost parents, which is just so beautiful. And he was such a kind soul. And this was 20 years ago and we gave him $10,000 and I I loved him dearly. And ⁓ I followed him a little bit and ⁓ he had the most sort of harrowing experience. He had a rare deadly disease. and he was in the hospital. He was read his last rites. His family thought they were saying goodbye to him. They had, you know, a religious leader in, like, it was just crazy. And then they kept like, up, maybe this medicine will do it for three months. And then he was on his deathbed again, sort of transferred to hospice, up, maybe this medicine. And then he was a med student and he literally tried medicine on his own blood to try to find what medicine could cure him from this disease. And after many tries, he did it and he was cured. And he has been in remission for 10 years. And he said to himself, I got lucky. I was a med student, not everyone can do that. I want to figure out what medicines that are on the market right now ⁓ can be helpful to cure some of these rare diseases. Because we all know, of course, there's lots of money helping for heart disease and cancer. And we hope those are enormously successful. But there's a lot of rare diseases that right now sort of the quote unquote market. will not serve because it's not worth it to save 100 lives or 1000 lives as callous as that sounds. And so what his organization does is they actually use AI, which is one of the reasons I'm very bullish on AI, is they use AI to help match one of the currently approved medications that we have. We have over 4000 approved medicines by the FDA. That's one of them saved his life and match them with these rare diseases. So we don't have to go through billion dollars of clinical trials. We can actually find a medicine hiding in plain sight. that could be used to cure the life of someone. And they have helped save dozens and dozens, I think probably hundreds of this point of lives. And they are just shooting for the stars and AI is helping them along that journey, something that would have been impossible 10 years ago. So anyway, if you don't know David Fagenbaum, his story is just beautiful. And he turned his own tragedy into an amazing organization. speaker-0: that I didn't know you were going to say that, but it would have been my guess. And ⁓ it was really powerful even hearing you kind of retell or intro the story for those not aware, the episode's amazing. And there's a moment in the episode, by the way, where like I imagined maybe you helped to facilitate this, I don't know, but where Reed just basically committed support ⁓ to him and basically, ⁓ you know, it like, hey, would this help at all? And he's like, actually, that would help a ton. It's like, great. And I thought that was actually a great moment. And some would probably find it shocking who don't get too close to all the AI stuff they might envision like a Reid Hoffman, you know, giving a million dollars to an AI company and just absolutely assume that that would be around some, you know, for profit kind of investment and like, ⁓ great, this company's got an even bigger through that investment. This was not that at all. And I thought it was a really powerful moment. And it's probably a good example. to people how an investment in an AI company could look very different and serve a very different purpose than they might imagine. speaker-2: Joe, you're giving me too much credit. David Vagan was complaining about not complaining is the wrong word, wishing and hoping that he could have additional dollars for compute so that he could have more AI power to do this. And Reid just goes to me, hey, Aria, why don't you ask that question again? Ask me that question again. OK, got And I was like, OK. And Reid surprised us all by committing a million dollars to help them with compute right then and there. So it was super fun. speaker-0: So that's the backstory. And it's a little different than I pictured. And it's just as simple as that, huh? Kind of like an Oprah moment in the most powerful and altruistic and just amazing ways. speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-1: We've talked a lot today about keeping humanity in AI. Here's a stat that puts it in perspective. 81 % of customers would rather wait for a human than talk to AI. That's not an anti-AI stat. That's a quality stat. And that's exactly why Joe and I felt good about Applied Labs as our very first sponsor. If you've been shopping AI for customer support, you've heard everyone claims 60 % ticket resolution. Applied Labs guarantees it. Go live in 30 days, 60 % AI resolution in 90 90 % CSAT throughout no one else is putting that in writing speaker-0: That's right. They're guaranteeing results like nobody else is. And here's what else makes them different. You get a dedicated agent PM who owns outcomes alongside your CX team. And I've met these folks. They're fantastic. That's the humanity piece. And Applied Labs unifies AI agents, help desk, QA, and analytics all into one platform. It's easy. So the AI is going to handle some of the complex stuff like refunds, subscription saves, product recommendations. that frees your human agents up to do so much else, all the things that humans actually do best. So think of Applied Labs AI as a fast-growing AI CX partner for direct to consumer brands. It's trusted by FabFitFun, Sundays for Dogs, TruMed, and so many others. And look. I spent many years in subscription CX, where keeping customers is everything. You know, Linda, getting the customers is easier than actually keeping them. Applied lifted subscription saves 40 % for Sundays for Dogs. That's actually seven figure net new revenue annually. Boom. speaker-1: So if you're ready to transform CX from a cost center, and we've all heard that, to a growth driver and make AI actually work with your CX team, visit appliedlabs.ai. ⁓ That's appliedlabs.ai. ⁓ speaker-0: We want to, you know, use a lot of our remaining time to, if there's anyone listening, like, they said they're going to talk about AI. Well, we've started to, but as we continue to talk about AI for the rest of the episode, ⁓ I know from Linda, we always commit our listeners, we don't over prepare, that's for sure, but we do talk a little bit. And Linda actually let me know that she wanted to ask a question that sounds like a simple question, but is an amazing question about AI. And I think you know what I mean, right, Linda? speaker-1: Yes. Yes. Okay. Can you define AI? And the reason I asked, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a beat here. So I was at a conference a couple of years ago and each person I met, was like, Oh, and who are you with and what do you do? And they're like, I'm an AI. And I'm like, what does that mean? And they're like, I don't know. We do something and like fast forward to the Olympics. right? Because I'm an Olympics fiend. speaker-0: You loved watching the Olympics, Linda. I thought of you every time I watched. speaker-1: And I'm watching the half pipe event and they're like, we've got these AI generated images of showing you how they're landing in the, and I'm like, okay, no, those are lines. Like, so the thing is, is I, I feel very strongly that AI is a bit of a buzzword and is also a bit of an enigma. Like we're going, can we define AI? Right? Like I watched the movie. I think Will Smith was in it. Didn't love it. no, maybe it wasn't that one, but there was an AI movie, right? And like, got it, artificial intelligence, get it, got it, love it ish. But I think that it's become, it's become an enigma. Like, I don't, I don't know if we can define it. So I feel like you're a resident expert. speaker-0: You're really saying if anyone's up for the job, it's Aria. speaker-1: Here's your seat. But can you define AI for the people? speaker-2: will agree with you that it is enigma and partially it's because the definition keeps changing to your point. well, let me start by saying I think AI is a buzzword, a mystery and absolutely here and real and going to change our world in ways good and bad. So I think some people think it's sort of like a bubble. it's really like, I don't know if people outside of Silicon Valley, but four years ago, everyone was talking about like the multiverse and NFTs. speaker-0: Remember that ⁓ speaker-2: Exactly, Linda. And so I think some people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we did this four years ago with the multiverse and FTS and all that garbage. Say I was the same. I really think AI is different. And so one of the reasons why I think this sort of definition is confusing is that the whole goal of a lot of these labs was to reach artificial general intelligence. And back in the day, that sort of meant passing the Turing test. And the Turing test was a famous scientist and math mathematician. ⁓ said that you would pass the Turing test when you could talk to someone or something and not be able to detect man from machine. And so this was sort of what everyone was shooting for for decades. Can you talk to someone and not know that you're talking to AI as opposed to a human? But then what happened is that these labs moved so quickly that we blew past the Turing test a year ago, two years ago, three years ago when you're talking to Jat-Chat GPT. besides maybe for some annoying flattery or whatever, you could be talking to a person. They better grammar than I do. They have better diction, you know, the whole thing. And so we kept changing the definition of artificial general intelligence because we said, ⁓ no, we're not there yet because it can't do this. ⁓ no, we're not there yet because it can't do this. And the truth about AI right now is it's really spiky. So it's like really bad at some really basic things, but it's really incredible at things that humans could never do. And those are also constantly changing. And so you hear people saying, well, listen, if you tried Claude or you tried Gemini or you tried Chappachie PT three months ago, try it today because it's so different. So when we talk about AI definitionally, most people, what they mean is LLMs, large language models. And this is what Chatchie PT and Anthropic and Google put out there. But when open AI ⁓ was starting back in 2017, 2018, they were thinking about ways to reach AGI and they had a bunch of different sort of theses like, ⁓ how could we get there? Large language models was just one of them. And it happened that it was like really working. And so they're trying that way. But there's a bunch of other ways to sort of use artificial intelligence or to use this sort of scale compute that we have to get the outcomes that people want, whether that's world models ⁓ or something else entirely. So I am not answering your question about what AI is. It is absolutely this computer that can think and reason for itself. speaker-1: Okay, wonderful. Wonderful. So again, we're still going to slap AI on everything, right? speaker-2: Right. There's also the business side of things where like any company added AI and then like added an extra zero to how much money they were raising. Yes, that is right. speaker-1: Amazing. I just can't wait to see it in the serial aisle. Like that box of AI. Very excited about that. speaker-0: see an image of me eating those cocoa puffs. Life changing. speaker-1: But I I think that this is because it's, you know, all we hear, all we hear is AI is taking our jobs, right? AI is taking our jobs. Like what do we like AI is doing this and AI is doing this and the job market's terrible because AI has taken our jobs. Um, and I don't really, I don't subscribe to that level of chaos. I do believe similar to, you know, I was, Joe, you and I were talking. you know, similar to like factory line workers where, you know, we introduce machines to tighten up bolts and they were doing it more effectively and safely and lowering like risk. Right. So I do believe that there are going to be some functions of people's roles that are taken. But then I also think of I really love analogies and I love to like make things tangible. I think of the movie Hidden Figures, right. And there was this really critical moment when they're And I didn't know this. I learned this from the movie because don't we all learn everything we know from movies. Uh, but there's this moment where you find out that the people who were doing the tabulations are called computers. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, is that where that came from? And then suddenly there's a computer, you know, that takes up the whole room. And there's this moment where she says, yeah, but somebody's got to run it. Right. So maybe it's doing this level of our role. But somebody's got to be able to run it. Somebody's got to be able to give the input to these AIs. Would you agree with that? Like, yes, the job market is going to shift, right? It's going to shift. I think that that's the natural cycle of job markets, right? We develop new technology. have, you know, people used to pick crops and now we have machines that go out and glean the fields, right? So would you agree that that really it's about the shifting and how we're inputting into AI and how we are as humans improving it, right? Because it's only as good as its input. speaker-2: So I would, it's interesting, it's super interesting for me to hear from you what you are hearing about AI, because I think people in different bubbles in different places are hearing different things. I think people in Silicon Valley would say something different, people in New York, people in Hollywood would say something different, and so it's super interesting to me. And I would argue that if we're looking backwards, AI has taken almost no jobs. We have a terrible job market, but I would argue that it is not due to AI at all. It is due to a million other things, over hiring during COVID, political stuff, tariffs, whatever it might be, and actually not due to AI. But I also agree with you that we are going to see job shifts in the future due to AI. think anyone, we don't know what's going to happen. Anyone who thinks they know what's going to happen, they're out of their minds because we just don't know how quickly this is going to happen. So again, there's some jobs where you used to have ⁓ people who worked in spreadsheets. and you had to be an expert in it and only a few people use spreadsheets. But then Excel came along and instead of killing the spreadsheet job, everyone now has a spreadsheet job. How many people work in spreadsheets? I work in spreadsheets every day. And so right now we're actually seeing demand for ⁓ developers and engineers go up. And so some people posit that like with the advent of AI, actually, you don't mean that everyone can become a developer and a coder. And so that job is actually gonna increase, not decrease. Other very smart people say, you're out of your mind, that job is going out of business in the next five years, it's going to be like the elevator operator. So I think that the thing that we can know for certain is there's going to be job shifts. You know, whatever at the turn of the century, the US was, you know, maybe 70 80 % of the jobs were agrarian were farmers, and we're certainly happy that we had those job shifts. Yeah, in my mind, what is gonna sort of tell us how well we do this is two things. One is how quickly the shift goes. If the shift takes 25 years, that's a generation and we can absorb that. If the shift takes 2.5 years, we can't absorb that. And that's going to lead to mass unemployment. And we've never been that great at job retraining. We need to get better at it. And so I think that matters. And then second, it matters how society handles it and deals with it. You know, sometimes when you think of, ⁓ you know, folks coming back after the second world war, some people would argue that one of the things that helped sort of men get a leg up is they all got college tuition paid for, they all got the GI bill, and they all got help buying their home. And so are we going to sort of have a second GI bill for the AI age? I think it really matters how society handles it, and then also how quickly the technological transitions happen. But I couldn't agree more. The job transition is the name of the game. And sometimes that's good, and sometimes that's horrifying. speaker-0: And this, I mean, this gets at the whole humanity and AI theme of today's episode. And Ari, to your point of we're all kind of in our little corners and bubbles and everything. But, know, in my career, I started out on the front lines picking up customer service phone calls. Again, as that as that kid is that English major, like maybe I'll get into business. And I loved it. And I was, you know, I was good at it. I loved it. I love talking to people and helping people. Now it's like 20, 25 years later. And a common situation for me would be a company like a brand leader, CX leader, founder coming to me and saying, hey, like, there's a million options for AI partners for customer support and conversational AI, like, which one should I go with? So I always like pinching myself like, why are they asking me? I'm just a dumb kid, but I love this stuff. And maybe maybe they like getting my advice because I'm not too technical, but I kind of have a sense of what might work for them and their business. ⁓ So a real anecdote for my end is I was sitting at a lunch with a really senior leader who I love and admire and respect so much. And I said to her, well, it was probably Applied Labs AI, incidentally, but I said to her, hey, I really love this company because they really keep the humanity in AI and with their approach to business. And she literally just laughed like it was like one of those spit take moments. was like, stop it. That's ridiculous. I was like, no, I don't think it's ridiculous. know, but those are one of the real life or career moments where I do think of you, Aria, because that that's kind of how that skepticism and doubt manifests in my day to day. And then I think of you and again, like the premise of the possible podcast. So I'm going to ask you another big impossible question with that huge buildup, but like, what does keeping or driving humanity and AI mean to you? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: So I do it's funny I so sympathize empathize connect with the spit take of like, you're right, Joe. And in other ways, I think it's totally possible. I actually you know, Ethan Malik, this sort of AI evangelist from the University of Pennsylvania, he often says like, we're talking about developers, and that's great. But like, that's a tiny, tiny bit of the labor market. The huge bit of the labor market is managers. And you know what our people are horrible at? Managing. speaker-0: Hey Linda, that's your chance. speaker-2: ⁓ And I'm sure Linda could teach me a thing or 10 ⁓ about how to be a better manager. ⁓ But I think about sort of the best managers and colleagues and whatever that I've had. And one of the things they do is they remember things about you. They, how is that kid's birthday party this weekend? Or like, ⁓ weren't you going on that trip? And listen. speaker-1: You speaker-2: some people have better memories than others the way some people do it is they write it down in a spreadsheet the way other people do it is they just like keep it all in their head and they're wonderful and they're amazing at it speaker-0: people. I know! I'm the stretchy guy. speaker-2: Yeah. So if you could imagine that AI comes in and nudges you and says like, ⁓ it's your employee's birthday or like, ⁓ did you forget like it's six weeks past their leg broken. That's when they're probably going to have to go in for a doctor's appointment. did you think and there's still a human in the loop because if you just get an automatic email from Clippy that says like, how's your whatever, you're going to roll your eyes. But your manager has to decide then. to bring that up in the one-on-one, to devote five minutes of it, to say like, ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, you can take tomorrow off because I know you have that hard time. So I think, again, it's sort of the AI plus the humanity can, in some ways, sort of make us ⁓ better people, better managers, whatever. And in some ways, it's just ⁓ BS that I don't believe at all. So I think it's a little bit of both. speaker-0: Very interesting. do you think, you know, I almost want to ask you like what businesses are doing it right in terms of driving humanity and AI, which aren't, but I don't truly want to put you on the hot seat of like, have to name companies unless you want to. But I mean, a more general question would just be, what does that look like to you? And with all this experience of research, you do the interviews, like what could it look like? Or I guess like, are characteristics of a business who are doing it right and trying to drive humanity in the way that they build and deploy AI? speaker-2: Well, it's interesting. think in the medical field is a big one because when I last time I went to the doctor, I literally had to go to the emergency room at midnight and I get there and a doctor asks me some questions, write it down on a post-it note. And then I go to the next doctor and they ask me the same questions and write it down on the back of a sheet of paper. And then the nurse comes in and asks me the same question and like writes it on her arm. speaker-0: And then usually their computer systems down and then yeah, it's just speaker-2: People are like doing God's work at midnight in the emergency room. No hate to them. But you can imagine when it is disclosed, and I think that's very important, the disclosures, hey, I have an AI taking notes when I talk to you. And so actually, I'm going to say to you, ⁓ hey, you came in with a stress fracture. It looks like your arm's a little purple, and I'm seeing these three lines across it. And the whole reason is so the AI can capture that. So this doctor can actually talk to you, look you in the eye. not take a scrap of paper, the new nurse comes in instead of being like, what are you in for? Can be can say, hey, listen, is this right? This purple on your arm means x, y, z. So again, I think the disclosure and the things that like when people are trying to act like like computers, and Reed says this all the time, when you're doing a job when you're trying to be as much like a robot as possible, that's probably a good job for a robot. And so when you think of all the admin that doctors do, 40, 50, 60 % of their time is spent admin. And actually what truly improves outcomes ⁓ is bedside manner. Like that is a thing that actually people say improves results from surgeries. Like let's have them do the human stuff more. And so that's what I'm hoping for. There's so many human systems, computers down, no one likes change, blah, blah, blah, that's going to get in the way of that. speaker-0: out speaker-2: I think it's a future to shoot for. speaker-0: That's amazing. That actually I mean, one of the questions I hope to hit on was sort of applications outside of business and you did it for me. So thank you. And it really hits for me. ⁓ My oldest brother Hugh ⁓ is a pediatrician. My wife, Ena, is an OBGYN. My mother-in-law is a general physician. like in terms of the stories they tell from work, it really frustrates them. Linda, if you had them on the pod and asked what really frustrates them, it's exactly what you're speaking to, Arya, the other perspective on this. they have patients scheduled in 15 minute slots, is impossible to start with. And then they're pressured to spend half or more of that time asking the same questions, taking notes and billing. And so they have no choice but to get a head start on taking notes and starting billing practices while they're trying to take care of a human being, not because they want to approach work that way, but they have to, it's how they're managed and how their performance is measured. that hit for me. ⁓ Linda, ⁓ sorry, go ahead, Aria. speaker-2: No, I was just gonna, I'm happy to give a more business answer if that's also interesting. ⁓ speaker-0: It's all interesting. It's all it's it's it's it's it's all interesting. Linda, did you have a topic or two in terms of current events or things that were kind of bubbling up in your minds? Leading question because Linda and I text throughout the week. speaker-1: Yeah, so, you know, I have a number of questions because I regularly go off script, which is why we don't typically have a script. And I also want to be super mindful of our listeners time in your time, Aria. So, you know, I want to I'm just going to get a hot take, right? This is this is the hot take. So in the news recently, Microsoft announced that they were going to double down on investing in employees. to come in and work with AI, right? Now I feel like the way that they announced this was quite controversial because they said that they were going to invest in Gen Z to come in and help build and scale their AI. Now I love the theme. I love the idea of, yes, we need humans. Again, your output is only as good as your input. Like we have to gain knowledge. We have to get the basics from the humans in order to drive the thing forward. So love that they're doubling down on that. ⁓ But I have some opinions on, know, Gen Z and whatnot, but what's your hot take on, on Microsoft kind of doubling down? I hope this doesn't get you in trouble with the. speaker-2: No, not at all. Not at all. Full transparency, Reed is on the board of Microsoft. I have no insider knowledge. ⁓ You know, without knowing the whole story, here's what I would say. I have a good friend and he was telling me that he was building agents to help him in his sales shop and that it was enormously effective and it helped him prospect, it helped him talk to people, it helped him understand who they were. And I was like, man, you are awesome. Like, way to use AI. And he's like, well. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-2: the company came in and showed us how to do it and gave us the tools and so everyone's doing it. And I was like, ⁓ no, that's not bad, that's good. Like I do feel like in some of these situations, employees are at sea. It's just like, you better be using AI. And I get it, you gotta be curious and you gotta figure it out. But I also think companies can help them. So if Microsoft is genuinely... helping employees use AI so that they can transition from a job without AI to a job with AI, which is like what they will need so that someone else doesn't take their job. I love that. If this is just, young people can come in, they're cheaper than you, we're gonna jettison the old people and bring in the young people, I don't love that. And so I think it depends on the specifics. I think that's what's so hard with AI in general. Like there's so much nuance and so. It's like to be like, hate AI or I love AI. It's like, wait, what? No. I hate AI when there's ⁓ child porn on social networks. And I love AI when I'm able to do mass customization for all of my customers. And so I get to surprise and delight for them in a way that I never would have before. And so again, I think it's sort of a cop out. Really, we, like, we're humans and we get to decide how to use this and some people are deciding in a really shitty way and some people are deciding in a really magical way. speaker-1: Amazing. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, I've basically decided, you know, I've thought about this stuff. And I've thought, like, who knows where this all goes with AI and humanity, you know, hundreds or thousands of years in the future, but probably in the in the scope of my lifetime. ⁓ I do think that it's, it's a really interesting and kind of noble pursuit to just think about how to drive humanity in AI. And, you know, two of the really kind of general buckets I've put that into what that could look like is one, how it's deployed. what outcomes we're trying to achieve. And I think Aria, you've been speaking on that incredibly throughout the episode and you're kind of at the forefront. And also it's about just having great human beings who are working in AI and the way that they go about working with companies and deploying AI at companies and how they treat people along the way. And that's also how I keep humanity and AI. So a couple of words from the soapbox for me, I guess the final question I'd have for you Aria is for someone who's listening, like I... would imagine there might be one or more people listening who are thinking, gosh, like when I hear Aria talk about AI, it sounds great. Like I'm not intimidated anymore. But I think part of that command and the comfort, you know, comes with expertise and time and knowledge. for somebody listening who wants to dive in more and maybe kind of work their way towards a level of command and comfort, like any advice for them, I don't know if you ever gotten this question, but like how do people kind of get started to take away some of the anxiety and just become more comfortable and more of an expert. speaker-2: So one of the hard things is I do think you need to keep trying new things every few months. Because every few months, or sometimes even every few weeks, there's a new model. And the new model capabilities are often pretty stunning. So something that you thought was garbage a few months ago is great now. So I would just say try and try to use the latest and greatest models. And if you're on a free version, get the $20 a month. It is much better than the free version. It sucks to spend $20, but it's worth it. So get the $20 a month. Try it out. I would say one of the things that I do is I curate my media diet. you know, I subscribe to Ethan Molyneux podcast or I, ⁓ Ethan Molyneux newsletter, or I go on Twitter and I figure out who are the AI voices. So I can sort of be on top of what's next. ⁓ but also like AI can help you. So you can ask Claude and say, Hey, you know, I'm a marketing manager. This is what my day to day is. This is where like I struggle. This is where I have like, do you have thoughts on ways that I could use you? And so. have them be your thought partner in figuring out what to do. And in the beginning, you're gonna waste time with AI because it's gonna take longer. And that sucks, but you've gotta get through that. It takes longer to get to the part where it's actually saving you time. speaker-1: Yeah. And I really hope that Claude says, ⁓ you're having trouble at work. You should call Linda. I'm sure. So I don't know how I get that in to Claude. speaker-2: There you go. speaker-0: That's how to use AI for good is to make sure that Linda Harvey is speaker-1: coming. speaker-2: I'll say one other thing because I said, ⁓ and you can save time. Because I think that's helpful, and I think you can save time. But I actually think the most magical thing about AI is doing things that you wouldn't have done before. Like doing things you couldn't have done before. And so really pushing the AI that you're talking to. Actually, no. What's some surprise and delight that was just impossible because of the constraints that were in my universe before that now are possible? And that's even better. than the time saving. Better for everyone, better for creativity, innovation, better for your company, better for your job. So I would just push you to try to do that if you can. speaker-0: Love that. speaker-1: Amazing. Amazing. Well, I think, you know, we, we are at the top. We've done the things we've talked a lot. ⁓ so we think this is kind of where we start to wrap things up, but you know, Aria, one thing that I like to, ask at the end of each episode is, you know, something that's got you hot under the collar and it can be AI driven. can be, ⁓ maybe you didn't like your cereal this morning. Like what's got you. cause mine's going to take a serious left turn and that's our speaker-0: Too many texts from Joe before the podcast recording. speaker-1: So, so tell the people what's got you a little hot under the collar. speaker-2: Here's what has me hot under the collar. There was a recent study that said that 50 % of American parents wouldn't let their child go to a separate aisle in the grocery store because they were afraid they would be kidnapped. I don't want to hate on anyone's worry or concern, but one of my big hot under the collars is we need to let kids... get out there, explore, getting some scrapes, go to the grocery store, get you some milk. And all of this to me is part of just a bigger idea of like, it takes a village and like embracing community. having your neighbors over, even if you're not an expert host like Joe, you don't need to clean your house. You don't even have to, you know, just grab a bottle of wine and with some juice boxes and order a pizza. And like that can be enough to build community. And I think once you build community, wherever you are, whether it's in your apartment building or your neighbors next door, then you can start to be like, ⁓ yeah, my kid could walk to the grocery store because like there's people everywhere. Like, ⁓ yeah, I could send them over to the neighbor when I need help because I don't have childcare today. Like I just think this whole idea of community and if AI can help with it, God bless it. But we gotta turn it up. speaker-1: Amazing, amazing. was such a good answer. Joe, what's got you hot under the collar? speaker-0: Okay, Linda, you know, me hot under the collar is I hate how I still get anxious and nervous for so many things in life. But I love the way it feels to actually do them. And I love the way it feels after. So you know, I was thinking about that before today's pod episode, because sometimes I question myself or question what are you doing to yourself? Because I'm somebody who gets nervous, like I've been nervous my whole career to say to like speak up in a team meeting or I get nervous like, what am going to say next in a social social circle? And like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this to myself? But you know, here we have this amazing podcast with a great friend and partner Linda have Aria Finger on the podcast today. Amazing superstar guest star and great friends. ⁓ We're sponsored, we're gonna have some people listening to it and it feels great. So ⁓ I don't like the way I get so nervous. I don't like how that feels. ⁓ but I would relate to everybody to just keep trying new things, do things that challenge and push yourself. And it feels great during and after. So keep going for it, including all you fellow introverts out there. See, that's what happens on our podcast, Arya. Linda asked me a simple question. I make a speech and then I could go back to Linda. And there was another episode where I asked you what had you hot and bothered and you told me that wasn't the expression. So what has you hot under the collar? speaker-1: Love that. Love. Yeah, yeah. Hot and bothered. Very different. Very different. ⁓ So hot under the car. You know, when people veer right to turn left, that drives me. No, no, no, no, no. It's not how cars work. Right. So here's the thing. I understand parking lot, right? Like we're, it's a narrow channel, right? And we have to veer a little bit, right. To turn a little bit left because of the angle of the parking spot. Totally get it full support, right? speaker-0: I know. They're winding up. speaker-1: But you don't need to do it in a turning lane. You do not need to cross the line to turn left, pull into the intersection and turn left. don't, we don't need to veer. just don't need to veer. speaker-0: What if what if you veer ever so slightly you don't cross into the next lane, but you know you push the boundary Getting that perfect angle speaker-1: to turn left to turn into a nice wide lane. It doesn't need to happen. just does not need to happen. it. The hill, the hill I will die on. We don't need to be right to turn left. So, okay. And then give me heart palpitations because they think you're going to hit me and then I have to honk and curse. Not that I'm cursing or honking, but you know, still it feels very inconvenient for me in the vehicle. speaker-0: I feel like we could do something right now with the topic of driving and AI. That would be very ambitious. would be a whole other episode. modes are coming. speaker-2: Can't wait. It's one of the things I'm most excited about. Let's do it. speaker-0: There you go. We snuck in another AI topic at the end. So ⁓ on that note, well, first I want to thank again our first ever in the business of humans sponsor. I want to thank Applied Labs and again, really specializing in keeping that humanity in AI and great outcomes. Even more so, you know how I want to thank is our very special guest, Aria Finger. Thank you so much for being with us today, Aria. This has been incredible. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Such a delight. The two of you are a hoot. I love it. speaker-1: so much. speaker-0: Linda, should, you know, we still have to make a website for our podcast. have, know, listen on Apple and Spotify and YouTube and leave a review. But we still need to make our website and just write on the top. feel like in big bold, it should say they are a hoot or you are both a hoot and then it could attribute it to Aria. I love it. be seeking your permission for that attribution one day Aria. Sounds great. Linda, bring us home and thank you as always to you, Linda. speaker-2: Yeah, do it! speaker-1: Yes, thank you all so much. Arya, were a delight. Joe, always a pleasure and we'll see you next season.