Latest / IB Unplugged / Celebrating 1 year of IB Unplugged!

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Celebrating 1 year of IB Unplugged! · IB Unplugged

• 0:00
  Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators,
• 0:05
  that tackles your submitted challenges and questions by connecting you with
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  experts and peers who share their ideas and stories from real classrooms.
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  Whether you're a seasoned educator or new to the IB world, each bi weekly episode
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  and guest aims to equip you with practical tips and positive inspiration,
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  helping you teach with more confidence, creativity, and joy.
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  So whether you're walking your dog or commuting to school, hit play and join
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  a community of educators ready to learn, laugh, and thrive in your IB journey.
• 0:35
  Hi everybody and welcome to IB Unplugged.
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  Believe it or not, it has been a full year since our first published episode,
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  and we thought we would take a moment to reflect on the last year.
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  You noticed
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  we don't have anybody in the hotseat right now, just the both of us.
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  And we kind of had this idea from a couple of questions that came in,
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  not just from our listeners, but also people in the team.
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  And we just thought, oh, this be kind of a fun way to,
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  talk about the year gone by, reflect on things that we've learned,
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  interview each other a little bit, and give you a chance to know us more than
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  just kind of asking questions and facilitating interviews.
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  Yeah. So this is going to be a fun episode.
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  We've got,
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  questions in the bowl from our producer, and we are gonna see how it goes.
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  We’ll pick a question. Good luck.
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  Yeah. Hopefully this will be fun.
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  I'm sure it'll be fun.
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  Yeah.
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  Hopefully it'll be informative.
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  Yeah.
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  Hopefully it's not a waste of your time listening to this one as well, but, yeah,
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  we thought it'd be a great way to kind of just reflect on the year gone by.
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  So, yeah.
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  Let's dive in.
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  Ladies first, you get to you get to pick out
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  whatever question you like from the bowl. Yes.
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  All right.
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  Who is your dream guest on the show?
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  Oh, wow.
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  Starting right there. Yeah.
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  There's no warmup question here.
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  It's got it's got to be Carol Dweck.
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  Yeah, that's a good one. Growth mindset. Yeah.
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  That sort of thing.
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  I mean, to realize that, you know, that research
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  and the publication of that book is, you know, over a decade, you know, ago.
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  But was it that long ago?
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  Yeah. But it's it's still super powerful.
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  And I know there have been some really important,
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  pieces of work that have come out since then,
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  but yeah, it's just super relevant.
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  I would love to chat with her.
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  I would love to kind of
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  give your brain a little bit more than, than what's been out there.
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  Yeah. For sure.
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  I mean, I think it's
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  influence how I think about my job, how I think about how I want to raise a child.
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  No, that's a good one.
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  Yeah. Let's stick with that. All right.
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  Here you go. I was going to mix them.
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  You can't pick them for me.
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  The point of the game is I pick one.
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  Okay, you pick one.
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  All right.
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  Let's see, what are some themes
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  that kept resurfacing in the last year?
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  Sometimes people talk about AI.
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  I don't know everyone, so I felt like you were talking
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  about artificial intelligence.
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  Yeah. Yeah, that that's come up.
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  The doctor chat.
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  Yeah, AI for sure.
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  Yeah. It's just constantly a recurring theme, and you can see why.
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  I mean, everybody's really quite concerned.
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  I think it's, you know, gen AI has made almost all of our assessments vulnerable.
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  Almost all the ways we assess and understand students.
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  That's come up a lot, too.
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  Yeah.
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  So I think it's only natural that we look at, okay, where the ethics of it,
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  how are we using it.
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  We know our students are using it. Should teachers be using it?
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  What are the ethical ways we can be using it?
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  Like yeah it's a it's a broad topic actually more than you would have thought.
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  Right.
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  I think every one of our warm up, when we did warm up questions
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  that were like, what do you think is going to come up in the future?
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  What's the future of eduaction. We used to do those questions.
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  There was no way of not thinking about AI.
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  That's why we stopped doing that as warmup
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  question was like, this isn't telling us more about this person.
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  It's just telling us more about the state of play in education right now.
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  Yeah.
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  What was one of the most funny
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  or fun things about hosting an episode?
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, it's a lot of fun.
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  It's a lot of fun hosting with you.
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  I'm not just saying that because, you know, we're on camera.
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  Like, it really is.
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  And, Yeah, I appreciate
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  that you will laugh at some of my terrible jokes just because, like,
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  why wouldn't you?
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  And that that, I think that's a lot of fun, but also just
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  recognizing that I think education is a fun.
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  Yeah. Like it's also a fun thing.
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  Yeah.
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  So, I mean, that was what we said in our in our disco, discovery process.
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  I learned some business speak and disco means discovery, and that's the thing.
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  Yeah. John's very corporate now. No.
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  Yeah, it was like,
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  I don't want to do this if I'm not having a good time.
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  Yeah, and teachers don't want to listen to a podcast if they're not.
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  Also, the.
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  It's so precious the time that teachers do have to consume any additional content.
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  Yeah. Yeah. So that's fun.
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  I also think doing the episodes in person is really fun.
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  That's one great.
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  I mean, we can't I don't think we can talk about this without reflecting
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  on, during Lance's episode because Lance was in New Zealand. Yes.
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  And we of course, we're over here in Austria.
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  And so we were we were up at like 11:00 at night.
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  Yeah. And Lance had just woken up. Yeah.
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  So whirlwind night.
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  We've had dinner already.
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  That's like sitting around a school at 11:00 at night,
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  waiting for Lance to wake up and have his coffee.
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  Yeah. Do some juggling for us.
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  Tell us about ATL’s. Yeah. No, that was good.
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  On the back of this
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  one morning recording or late night recording?
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  Late night. I am not a morning person. Morning.
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  Obviously, I prefer the morning more often than not.
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  I've been up for a few hours
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  before we even, like, start thinking about the day, so.
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  Yeah.
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  And, like, when we have a 9:00 Am recording, I'm, like,
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  scrambling into the office, like, chugging coffee.
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  And John's been there for five hours, and I'm like, let's go.
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  Still part of it. Yeah. Yeah.
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  And yet we're able to communicate well enough on on a podcast.
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  Yeah.
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  Miracles do happen.
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  Who checks the mic levels and who forgets?
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  I forget, obviously, and I check the mic levels. Yes.
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  It is very clear for everyone when Katilina,
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  our producer, is in the room or not.
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  Yes. Seriously. Everything is better when Katie is there.
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  We start an episode
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  and I kind of looking like, oh, where's Katie this week?
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  That should be around here. Yeah. Okay.
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  One thing
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  podcasting has made you better at? Listening.
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  Yeah. Listening.
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  I mean, having an hour or 45 minutes,
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  whatever it is, of just being fully focused on what somebody else is saying.
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  It's always really interesting.
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  But it does take work, especially these days
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  when you're so used to getting distracted by something.
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  Yeah.
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  The active listening is something I feel like I've gotten better at.
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  Yeah. I absolutely agree.
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  There's so many times when I get into it and we're talking with somebody
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  who I, you know, I'm learning new things about them as well.
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  And just trying to think, okay, what have I
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  actually totally understood this and really kind of putting myself
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  in that position of just like I'm totally a learner right now.
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  And let me reflect this back. Like, did I get this right? Yeah.
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  You know,
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  that's become something that I not only use in podcasting
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  and then I use it my professional life to talk with different teachers
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  when they express a problem or something that's going on.
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  I love when they say, no, you're like, so let me get this straight.
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  If I understand correctly
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  and you said like a sentence, try to summarize what they're like.
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  No, John.
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  I know right.
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  Yeah.
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  That's a that's a pretty, exposing moment.
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  Yeah. Okay, I think I understand this.
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  You said this, this, and there's like, no wrong.
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  Not like that.
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  But that's actually that's helped me out a ton to just working with people
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  here at the school and like, okay, are you telling me this?
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  Is this what you were telling me?
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  And yeah.
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  Then they say, no John you need to get better at listening.
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  And I say I am working on it. Yeah.
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  What would surprise listeners most about you as an educator?
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  That not all of my students get sevens all the time.
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  Is that what you think people think about you?
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  Obviously. Obviously.
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  Everybody is like, oh, yeah, he must have, you know, perfect scores.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, maybe not, maybe not.
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  But I would,
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  I would assume that might be a little bit surprising as to be like, yeah, no,
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  I get,
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  you know, kids who are pulling in sort of twos and threes
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  and I struggle with it too.
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  And I,
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  you know, I play through all of these different
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  things that we've talked about with different hosts.
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  And I try these different approaches.
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  And sometimes it just like doesn't land. Yeah.
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  So maybe, maybe that's something that would be surprising.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Or not or not like.
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  Yeah. Yeah. No I knew that. Yeah.
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  Best advice you've received from a guest?
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  I know we already talked about Lance, but I'm going to have to bring it up
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  one more time of especially in the in my work setting,
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  I really think about the failing well
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  and making space for that and celebrating
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  good failing.
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  When you might not have done what you thought you were going to achieve.
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  But what did you learn from that?
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  And those learnings are a win.
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  And really getting comfortable and vulnerable
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  in that space of like perfection is not the only success.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  I think what's really been present for me now is I reflect on the conversation
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  I have with people here in the show, and then I go back to my own practice
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  in my own teaching is just
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  more and more
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  relinquish my own control of the pacing of the class.
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  Okay.
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  I gotta,
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  you know, I've I've learned these things and I, you know, I constantly think about
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  I talk about it in a lot of workshops and that sort of thing.
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  And then it's just like, reflect on your own practice
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  and recognize how frequently I am trying to control the pacing.
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  Or I am like, right, we're going to learn this thing and I will teach it.
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  There have been multiple times we're just talking with people
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  over the last year where I recognize you don't have to be in control of the pacing.
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  You don't have to be in control of the, like,
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  a lot of the stuff that you think you do.
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  And that's been a really good piece of advice,
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  not necessarily from any one person, but it's kind of been a recurring theme.
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  I think that was useful for me.
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  The episode that surprised you the most after recording?
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  The episode that surprised me the most after recording was Jen Olmsted.
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  Yeah.
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  When we first I love Jen, and I was like, I don't even care what she talks about.
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  I want her on the podcast.
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  And so we talked to her and she's like, oh, I want to write about Euros.
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  And I was like, I don't know what to talk about.
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  No, EUR’s.
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  And I was like, okay, I still don't know what you're talking about.
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  Like, Enquiry Upon Results. And I'm like, John, what are
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  what is this topic? Speak in English to me.
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  And then you described it and I was like, okay, I'm going to be just this, like,
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  I'll ask the questions that we prepare beforehand
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  and I don't think I'll have any thing.
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  But actually it was a really, really interesting conversation around
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  not just the inquiry result process,
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  but really this idea of how teachers can lean into working
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  with feedback and learn, like learning from their mistakes.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  I mean, the very obvious thing of like, you should do what
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  you ask your students to do and to reflect on the assessment
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  and the feedback that came from it and try to get better at it.
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  That was yeah, very good.
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  How has your own
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  thinking or teaching philosophy shifted in this past year?
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  I so often I come away from our episodes and I'm inspired and I want to do what
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  we've just spoken about, and I'm like, yeah, I should implement that.
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  I should bring that in. And,
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  and sometimes
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  I get a little bit knocked about, like I kind of,
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  I would try that.
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  Let me try this. Let me try that.
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  And so there's a certain extent to which I feel like
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  maybe I've lost a little bit of just like, do the thing and go for it.
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  But at the same time, I'm so inspired by what we can do differently.
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  And I want to try those things.
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  But I think I'd have to come back to
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  what was mentioning before of just like, I don't have to necessarily be in control.
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  And some of the best ways that that's come up is like,
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  I think back to Damian's episode where we talked about blended learning.
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  Yeah.
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  And, I made a real conscious choice this year
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  to, like, I'm going to integrate studio time.
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  Like, I can't do that for the whole school,
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  but I can do it in my own lessons.
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  And so, like, I shifted my lessons from, okay, we're going to have a seminar,
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  which is kind of me like as, as Damian was describing, like me lecturing,
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  if you will.
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  And then I'm going to have studio time
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  and I'm going to have lab time because, you know, within biology.
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  And it was interesting because my, my DP year
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  two students who had been with me for a year and a bit, they didn't like it.
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  I think they kind of got
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  used to me, you know, lecturing and that sort of stuff, or lecturing,
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  leading the learning. Yeah.
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  Whereas my DP year one students like, they love it.
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  They love the idea of like studio time and kind of working on their own.
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  And so, yeah, just that constant reflection of I don't have to
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  run all this sort of stuff.
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  I need to let the students kind of choose their entry point.
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  I guess from that, you know, a recent episode we were looking at,
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  UDL, Universal Design for Learning and the idea that, like,
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  I can use differentiation way better than I am.
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  And, and a lot of that comes down from, yes, just release the reins, man.
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  But I'm kind of go a bit and it'll be all right.
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  Nice.
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  Oh. All right, I be learner profile trait question which is your strongest
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  IB learner profile trait and which do you wish was stronger?
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  You try to remember all ten.
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  I, I'm going to pick the,
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  communicator.
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  Communicator.
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  However you want to communicate that to me?
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  Yes. Yeah. Communication.
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  Communication.
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  That was my third guess.
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  Communication.
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  I think I would put as my strength.
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  Not as in, like, I'm so good at talking, but the the listening part.
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  I think that was one of the reasons why
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  I really wanted to be able to do the podcast,
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  because I really do love listening to people,
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  but also not just hearing them, but listening and really being able
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  to move a conversation, not just to like to make sure
• 14:06
  everybody's part of the conversation and make sure that people can be
• 14:10
  uplifted into bringing their perspectives and all of these kind of pieces.
• 14:14
  I feel like it's something that's important to me, that I do.
• 14:17
  I mean, even to have the idea of let's have a podcast,
• 14:20
  you know, because there's a, there's a space here
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  that we feel is a way that we could communicate better
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  and we can communicate different things to IB
• 14:26
  educators that can be meaningful and impactful in their in their practice.
• 14:29
  Like, I really respect to you for.
• 14:31
  Yeah, for coming up with this idea.
• 14:33
  Like, this is a space that we need to have,
• 14:35
  and it kind of goes beyond the webinar and workshop and other resources.
• 14:40
  It fits a really nice medium that I think.
• 14:42
  Yeah, it communicates a need for people.
• 14:44
  It's been really cool going to conferences and that sort of stuff
• 14:46
  and talking with people who are like, I listen to the show.
• 14:48
  Yeah, you know, and it's like, it's not just my mom.
• 14:54
  Yeah.
• 14:55
  All right.
• 14:55
  Which which other profiles do you wish was stronger?
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  That's the second part of the question. Yes.
• 15:02
  The balanced balanced balancer.
• 15:07
  Yeah.
• 15:07
  Actually, as soon as I kind of made a joke
• 15:08
  about using communicator, I think it is communicator.
• 15:11
  Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.
• 15:13
  Balancer, I don't think that's.. Balanced is the one, I do know
• 15:17
  it's balanced.
• 15:18
  I would pick balanced.
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  Not in the, like, work life balance thing, but the
• 15:23
  the idea of being able to be
• 15:27
  do I show up in a balanced way?
• 15:31
  I think I am an emotional person,
• 15:35
  and I'm somebody who leads with emotion.
• 15:38
  And I'm really proud of that because I think
• 15:40
  that I can create a vulnerable space for people where I can,
• 15:45
  express how I feel about things,
• 15:47
  and that makes other people feel like they can also express themselves.
• 15:51
  And it creates a really safe place.
• 15:53
  But I think that there is an element of that that needs to be balanced.
• 15:58
  And when you're when you're leading to be able
• 16:01
  to steer the ship and be the
• 16:06
  the captain of the ship is like,
• 16:10
  I like, you know, I woke up this morning
• 16:12
  and I just have a pounding headache and I don't know where I'm going.
• 16:16
  And guys, I just got that scene from airplane
• 16:19
  where the, you know, the pilot just sweating buckets
• 16:22
  everywhere, trying to figure out how to do piloting.
• 16:24
  Yeah.
• 16:25
  And so I just, I think I want to make sure
• 16:28
  that I can really make
• 16:31
  that balance of authenticity and,
• 16:37
  supportive, strong leadership of making
• 16:40
  sure that it feels like a smooth ride for everybody
• 16:44
  that's hopping on board,
• 16:46
  while also not feeling like I have to repress anything either.
• 16:50
  Yeah, and I think that's already something you've shown in strong ways,
• 16:54
  but I respect what you're saying in terms of like,
• 16:57
  so it's a practice.
• 16:57
  Got to work on that a lot.
• 16:59
  Yeah, yeah.
• 16:59
  I mean it's like something you want to keep working on.
• 17:02
  Yeah. I'm going to answer this one too.
• 17:04
  Yeah. Do it, do it.
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  I've, I hope that my strongest learner profile attribute is open mindedness.
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  I hope that,
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  like, I want to work on that all the time.
• 17:13
  And I hope that that's a strong thing.
• 17:15
  Like, I like to think I don't go in like, this is what's going to happen.
• 17:18
  I want to hear this other person's opinion.
• 17:20
  I want to learn from this.
• 17:21
  And I think there's ways that I can grow from that and different cultures.
• 17:24
  And yeah, there's different perspectives that I think are worth taking on.
• 17:27
  Yeah.
• 17:28
  But I do think that you show that, a lot in the episodes of also, like,
• 17:32
  I can literally see your brain working sometimes have like,
• 17:37
  I never thought about this thing.
• 17:38
  How am I going to do this differently?
• 17:39
  And like, you really have you've been teaching for you.
• 17:44
  You know, this is not like, oh, we don't have to say how long.
• 17:46
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:49
  You're not a first year teacher.
• 17:51
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  Experienced.
• 17:54
  We're going to go with experienced right now, but you're still so
• 17:58
  willing and open to say,
• 18:01
  maybe my way is not the best way of doing this.
• 18:04
  So appreciate that. No, that comes there.
• 18:06
  No, thanks.
• 18:07
  I, I would I would love to be more knowledgeable.
• 18:11
  There are way too many times that I'm like,
• 18:13
  I don't know, kids ask me questions about.
• 18:16
  And like, in biology, I think when I'm teaching biology,
• 18:19
  a lot of kids think I'm a doctor and like, you're basically a doctor.
• 18:22
  I have this pain in my side, like, yeah, I don't know.
• 18:25
  I don't know what that's about.
• 18:27
  Yeah. Don't ask me.
• 18:30
  What is your, not for you,
• 18:32
  but in general, what's your favorite IB learner profile trait
• 18:36
  and your least favorite?
• 18:38
  I think the, the,
• 18:40
  the best IB learner profile trait has got to be caring, right?
• 18:44
  I think not
• 18:44
  just not just care about other people.
• 18:46
  Like, I really hope our students care about other people
• 18:48
  and that they're aware of that sort of thing.
• 18:49
  But I also think we just like, care about what you're doing.
• 18:52
  Yeah. Like there's care about it.
• 18:55
  Like so often
• 18:56
  we've spoken about this idea of like, yes, you could, for example, use
• 18:59
  gen AI or something to like skip the hard part of assignment or something
• 19:03
  like this, but care about what's going to happen
• 19:06
  when you do that versus if you do it on your own.
• 19:09
  And I just think, yeah, if you
• 19:12
  if you care about it than it then is better.
• 19:14
  Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
• 19:16
  Least favorite is risk taker.
• 19:21
  It is I'm sorry. It is.
• 19:22
  Like I agree with the sentiment.
• 19:24
  I agree that like, let's be courageous.
• 19:27
  Like, you know, take calculated risks, that sort of thing.
• 19:30
  What bothers me is that when I mentioned learner profile to anybody,
• 19:34
  whether it's students or teachers or anybody who works in the
• 19:38
  IB, the first thing that comes to mind is risk taker.
• 19:40
  Yeah. And it's like the only thing they associate
• 19:42
  with the IB learner profile, right. Like yeah. Risk taker.
• 19:44
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:44
  Somebody like hey recall what are all the ten IB learning profile attributes.
• 19:48
  So be like well there's risk taker.
• 19:50
  There's the first thing that comes up.
• 19:52
  Yeah.
• 19:52
  So I guess I just don't like it because I feel like it's
• 19:56
  it's not overused but it's maybe misinterpreted and overused.
• 20:01
  It's not overused.
• 20:02
  It's overused.
• 20:03
  Thank you for my Ted talk.
• 20:05
  Definitely overused. Yeah. Got it.
• 20:09
  Yeah.
• 20:09
  What about you?
• 20:10
  Would you answer that the same way?
• 20:12
  I think I also like the caring one, but I think
• 20:15
  I'm going to make it about people because we have, at Kognity,
• 20:20
  one of our core values for the company is we care about ourselves and each other.
• 20:24
  And I think that it's really important to not think of that as, like, the nice
• 20:29
  one, like, oh, yeah, if you're somebody who embodies that, you're just really nice
• 20:34
  because that doesn't actually,
• 20:38
  it's a completely different thing.
• 20:40
  It's kind of limited in its response to being caring.
• 20:42
  And being nice isn't always being caring, just like being polite
• 20:46
  is also not always being caring.
• 20:49
  And I think that that's
• 20:49
  a really important thing for students to understand that difference
• 20:53
  as they go through school of what does it mean to be genuinely caring?
• 20:59
  Not just being nice.
• 21:02
  Yeah.
• 21:04
  Yeah I agree with that.
• 21:07
  I'm going to the bottom of this bowl of questions.
• 21:10
  I don't aggressively hate any of the learner profile.
• 21:13
  I aggressively hate some of those IB learning profiles. Yes.
• 21:18
  Who is the funnier one?
• 21:20
  Of us?
• 21:21
  Yeah.
• 21:22
  Obviously it's you know, you're funny.
• 21:24
  I'm not a joke teller.
• 21:26
  I mean..
• 21:29
  I'm not either.
• 21:29
  I'm saying serious things all the time.
• 21:33
  We'll leave it to you to decide. Yeah.
• 21:35
  Now we rely on the guest. (Mom)
• 21:39
  Are you an IB educator wanting
• 21:41
  to improve your practice and needing a just a bit more support getting there?
• 21:45
  Have you ever wanted to learn more about a specific aspect of the DP program, or
• 21:49
  ask a question to an educational theorist about a specific IB aspect?
• 21:53
  IB Unplugged is the place for you.
• 21:55
  Simply visit kognity.com/ibunplugged to submit your question to us,
• 22:00
  and have your question explored in more detail in an upcoming episode.
• 22:04
  And now, back to the show
• 22:07
  The IB buzzword
• 22:08
  you're ready to retire?
• 22:13
  Sometimes,
• 22:16
  balance really like, pushes into well-being and hear me out.
• 22:19
  I'm not saying like, let's not take care of well-being.
• 22:23
  But I just feel that sometimes it's kind of misinterpreted,
• 22:26
  like well-being doesn't mean don't do anything, in my opinion.
• 22:29
  It doesn't mean like, I have to just stop doing all the work.
• 22:32
  And I think sometimes it really
• 22:34
  kind of goes that direction. Yeah.
• 22:36
  You know, often with students are kind of
• 22:38
  they've got center, a hard thing that kind of comes their way.
• 22:40
  Often we respond with like, okay, we'll stop that and go for a walk.
• 22:43
  Some like this and like, yes, that can be a good I agree, I do.
• 22:48
  Don't hate me.
• 22:48
  I do agree that that can be a really useful thing in that particular moment.
• 22:52
  But I think that there's a there's an underlying message there
• 22:55
  that says when you have a hard thing, run away from it.
• 23:00
  Yeah.
• 23:00
  And I don't think that's well-being and I think so.
• 23:03
  It's not really, I guess, an Ivy buzzword, but there's an element of just
• 23:06
  this is kind of get knocked around education a lot.
• 23:08
  And I think sometimes the way we talk about how to take care of yourself
• 23:12
  is we're a little bit
• 23:15
  less cautious with that, or less mindful of it than I think we should be.
• 23:18
  Yeah. No, I really agree.
• 23:20
  And I think just the fact that both of us are sitting here hesitating like,
• 23:23
  do I say this?
• 23:24
  But I'm going to say this, we're gonna be divided here.
• 23:27
  Right? Exactly.
• 23:28
  Controversy.
• 23:29
  Exactly.
• 23:30
  No, I think that I have a few thoughts.
• 23:33
  I have one, that stress has become a bad thing.
• 23:37
  Right.
• 23:37
  And I think stress is a really good thing when it's in healthy dosages.
• 23:43
  And I'm not alone in this.
• 23:44
  This isn't profound, but I think it's something that's harder to communicate.
• 23:48
  of if you feel
• 23:51
  no stress, it's impossible for you to grow.
• 23:54
  Yeah. Like it has to be part of it.
• 23:57
  I think you need to make sure that students
• 23:58
  are equipped with the tools to handle it when it comes up,
• 24:02
  and they need to be having stress in healthy moderations.
• 24:07
  And when there's too much stress, there's no growth.
• 24:09
  It's just over.
• 24:10
  You've passed the point of learning and growth.
• 24:13
  It's just stress.
• 24:14
  That's the part that's bad.
• 24:16
  But there's also,
• 24:19
  resilience is one of the most important things
• 24:22
  about the IB or about education in
• 24:25
  general is building student resilience.
• 24:29
  And if you don't
• 24:32
  work on overcoming stress,
• 24:37
  then you're not building resilience.
• 24:39
  And so like you said, it's like if it's just like, I'm
• 24:42
  having these negative emotions that I don't know how to work with.
• 24:45
  And so I'm just going to go to bad.
• 24:47
  Sometimes you do need to just go bad. Yeah.
• 24:50
  I'm not like, I'm not
• 24:51
  hopping on moment like this moment intervention for sure.
• 24:55
  But yeah, I mean, I, I talk a lot about self-efficacy and I think that's
• 24:59
  a really important way to be able to handle, you know, demanding things.
• 25:04
  And yeah, whether that's somebody going from the MYP to the DP,
• 25:07
  oh, this is a more demanding thing.
• 25:09
  And I'm kind of worried about it.
• 25:10
  I talk a lot about the way that we talk
• 25:11
  about the two programs and framing a narrative around the two.
• 25:15
  You talk with anybody about the MYP and it's like inquiry and it's fun,
• 25:18
  it's conceptual based learning.
• 25:19
  And you're like, talk to me about the DP.
• 25:21
  And it's like, this is hell and torturous and is the worst thing
• 25:23
  you're going to have to do.
• 25:25
  And I think a lot of that comes down to self-efficacy.
• 25:27
  And that's this like belief that I can do this hard thing.
• 25:31
  Yeah.
• 25:31
  And too often I think when we start talking about wellbeing,
• 25:35
  we equate that with go away from the problem.
• 25:39
  You know like and I just feel that's a real space
• 25:42
  that we need to lean into and recognize like giving people the chance
• 25:45
  to do a hard thing and recognize it.
• 25:47
  Like they learn something from themselves in it and they get through
• 25:49
  it is one of the best things we can do for them
• 25:52
  and for their overall wellbeing down the line.
• 25:53
  Definitely, definitely that long term wellbeing
• 25:57
  needs to be considered not just in that one moment.
• 26:00
  How do I make somebody feel safe again or comfortable?
• 26:04
  Maybe comfortable is the right word.
• 26:05
  Yeah, yeah yeah.
• 26:07
  All right.
• 26:07
  I welcome the hating comments.
• 26:09
  Yeah. I'm so sorry everybody.
• 26:12
  Funniest
• 26:13
  podcast bloopers or off mic moments?
• 26:17
  I think often, often we kind of struggle with the introductions.
• 26:21
  Yeah.
• 26:23
  We go through like, oh I got to redo that one.
• 26:25
  I got to redo that one.
• 26:27
  So often I think introductions, we tend to mess up.
• 26:30
  I guess you'd have to ask Zveki, our producer.
• 26:32
  Yeah, I'm sure he has plenty.
• 26:34
  Yeah, he's, like going to cut that thing out.
• 26:36
  Yeah.
• 26:37
  I also think my eyes were
• 26:40
  watering with Jen's episode.
• 26:44
  Oh my God.
• 26:46
  Trying to set up Jen's episode and her computer wasn't working.
• 26:49
  The screaming cat.
• 26:51
  It was a cat in the background just losing their mind.
• 26:54
  The cat was so mad. She was upside down
• 26:57
  at one point. Like, the phone she had turn the phone
• 27:00
  and instead of it like autocorrect and she was just upside down.
• 27:03
  She's upside down. The cat is screaming
• 27:07
  and we're like, carrying on.
• 27:08
  Like guys like professional here. Yeah.
• 27:09
  Like so Jen why education?
• 27:14
  Yeah, that was good.
• 27:17
  Biggest thing you underprepared for?
• 27:20
  In life?
• 27:21
  No no no no, with the podcast.
• 27:24
  Yeah.
• 27:24
  Not like being a mom..
• 27:29
  Like the Swedish winter.
• 27:31
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  Darkness. Darkness.
• 27:35
  With the show.
• 27:36
  Biggest thing we underprepared for? Do you have one?
• 27:42
  Well, okay.
• 27:43
  So we just try to do what we did live episode, live recording at,
• 27:47
  in Vienna for the IB days.
• 27:51
  And we, like, we didn't really know what the venue
• 27:54
  was going to present itself in terms of tech.
• 27:56
  I was like, I think this is it.
• 27:57
  I've been in touch with the person who's organizing it.
• 28:00
  They didn't know exactly what was there.
• 28:02
  And so I brought all sorts of stuff.
• 28:04
  But then when I went into the room,
• 28:05
  I had a quick look at the board and I was like,
• 28:07
  oh yeah, we can easily the sound board will be able
• 28:09
  to get our sound working just fine on this, so be no problem.
• 28:11
  And I said, okay, okay.
• 28:13
  And we had 15 minutes to like transition from the last session to our session.
• 28:18
  And I was like, I can do this in 15 minutes.
• 28:19
  Just plug this thing and put that over there.
• 28:21
  And then it didn't work.
• 28:22
  No. And I realize I should have prepared way better.
• 28:26
  And so many things went wrong.
• 28:28
  Everything went wrong.
• 28:29
  Except for the actual conversation
• 28:31
  Dženana, incredible. Conversation was awesome.
• 28:34
  Bless her heart.
• 28:34
  I think we put five microphones on her in 15 minutes.
• 28:37
  Yeah.
• 28:38
  And she was just like, okay, I'll do that
• 28:40
  and I'll talk about some really super smart stuff
• 28:43
  you guys don't totally understand. Yeah.
• 28:46
  Yeah.
• 28:46
  So I definitely did not
• 28:48
  prepare well enough to be like, yes, we can do this live recording.
• 28:52
  Yeah, I was cocky about it. Yeah.
• 28:54
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:55
  You don't have to say that so definitively.
• 28:57
  Well I was useless about it.
• 28:59
  So is it better to be cocky or useless?
• 29:01
  I don't know.
• 29:02
  Oh what is something that your co-host does that always makes you laugh?
• 29:06
  Oh that always makes me laugh?
• 29:09
  I think you, you do
• 29:12
  you know, when to play.
• 29:14
  You know, when we're kind of playing on something.
• 29:16
  And I think that's that's always fun, I appreciate that.
• 29:19
  Good.
• 29:23
  Yeah, I appreciate that you're not answering that one.
• 29:25
  Okay.
• 29:26
  IB buzzword that you secretly love?
• 29:29
  I don't think I can think of one, but I secretly love that
• 29:32
  I now know most of the acronyms. Except EUR’s
• 29:36
  before that episode, but it's like, I'm part of this secret club
• 29:40
  with all these secret acronyms, and it's like, yeah, I know what those are.
• 29:44
  And then people are like,
• 29:45
  she knows the IB. She knows the IB, she knows all the acronyms.
• 29:48
  Exactly. So, I don't know.
• 29:51
  I don't know how to answer in a
• 29:53
  deeper way, but I love knowing the acronyms.
• 29:57
  Yeah, it's got to be the, I secretly love the mission statement.
• 30:02
  You do reference the mission statement a lot
• 30:06
  more than the average.
• 30:07
  Okay, so, not so secretly loving,
• 30:11
  like, you want to tell everyone the mission statement?
• 30:14
  Yes. Yeah.
• 30:16
  Develop inquiring, knowledgeable, and caring young people committed
• 30:19
  to creating a better and more peaceful world through intercultural and no,
• 30:22
  through education that encourages intercultural understanding and respect.
• 30:27
  There we go.
• 30:28
  Beautiful. Right.
• 30:30
  I came up with that. Yeah.
• 30:32
  What is one word that listeners would use to describe your co-host?
• 30:39
  Handsome.
• 30:42
  Is what you were going to say.
• 30:43
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:45
  Charming.
• 30:48
  I go back to your learning your learner profile.
• 30:50
  One of caring.
• 30:51
  I think that you everybody like the the surface
• 30:56
  level thing is everyone makes a comment of like, how do you do 700 jobs?
• 31:01
  So whatever word that is, is probably what comes to mind first.
• 31:04
  But then the deeper part of that is like, why do you do this many jobs?
• 31:10
  You don't have to do as many things that you do,
• 31:13
  and you don't have to do all of those things as well as you do them.
• 31:17
  And all of that comes down to how much you care about
• 31:21
  all of the different avenues that you pour your life into.
• 31:27
  I’m tearing up now, that's really sweet of you to say.
• 31:31
  But I mean, if somebody shows up to one of your workshops,
• 31:33
  you're always going to show up and be like, I am not going to waste
• 31:36
  these people's time because I care about the people who are here.
• 31:39
  So I'm going to do my job, whatever that means.
• 31:43
  If it means waking up at four in the morning,
• 31:47
  but you're going to come in because you want to do everything
• 31:50
  that you do with dignity and with compassion and care.
• 31:54
  So that's all.
• 31:55
  Thank you. Thank you so much. That's super sweet.
• 31:58
  If you need a college, reference letter, just let me know.
• 32:00
  Actually, yeah, I would like to apply,
• 32:02
  you could be a reference for me.
• 32:04
  You want to do another PhD?
• 32:06
  Yeah.
• 32:08
  I would put, I would say,
• 32:11
  one word knowledgeable is one that comes to mind a lot.
• 32:14
  I think I really respect your experience and your knowledge, things,
• 32:18
  you know, like you have such a breadth of knowledge too,
• 32:21
  that I think just expresses across all these different areas.
• 32:24
  You'll take care of people.
• 32:25
  You take care of the difficult situations, like the stuff that is really complex
• 32:30
  and conflicting and hard, like you navigate that so well and can like,
• 32:36
  understand, you can empathize, empathy, you can empathize with people really well.
• 32:40
  Empathy is the word.
• 32:43
  Who is more likely to go off script?
• 32:48
  That would be John.
• 32:52
  John, we wrote all these questions down and they've agreed to them.
• 32:55
  And why are you going completely off that question?
• 32:57
  Yeah, I love when we're in a different room.
• 33:00
  And then I'll be like,
• 33:02
  where are we if you ever see me, like,
• 33:04
  flipping back and forth on the brief, it's like,
• 33:07
  where are you?
• 33:11
  I got excited.
• 33:11
  Yeah, I talk about.
• 33:13
  No, but that's what's fun about it.
• 33:15
  How would you describe the difference between our first episode and now?
• 33:20
  Inspiring
• 33:22
  for me, it's been I hope, I hope it's been inspiring
• 33:25
  for our listeners and I hope, you know, for the people who
• 33:27
  watch and follow the show, I hope it's been inspiring for you.
• 33:29
  But I know for me, like it's been super inspiring to go from the first episode
• 33:35
  through this last year talking with the different people.
• 33:38
  I think obviously I think we are working better together enough not to say that
• 33:43
  there was every bad, but I just feel like we understand each other better.
• 33:46
  And yeah, even if we're, you know, off site and just kind of
• 33:49
  looking through the camera, it's like there's a, I can understand.
• 33:52
  I see the sparkle in your eye.
• 33:55
  Oh crap. He's going off tangent again. Yeah.
• 33:57
  Yeah. He's got an idea. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:00
  But you know I think there is that element of I think we work better together
• 34:03
  even though there's definitely moments where I'm
• 34:05
  definitely stepping all over your feet for all of your toes like, but
• 34:10
  no, I'd say, inspired over the last year.
• 34:13
  It's really inspired me. It's inspired my teaching.
• 34:15
  It's inspired the way I work with colleagues, inspired.
• 34:18
  Yeah.
• 34:19
  I think from then until now,
• 34:22
  I feel like I'm a better professional
• 34:28
  or maybe even better person because of it.
• 34:31
  Probably not that second part. I'm trying.
• 34:36
  I'll answer this one too.
• 34:39
  When I started the podcast with Katilina, we were so excited
• 34:44
  and we had so much,
• 34:48
  conviction that
• 34:50
  this was a good thing, but it was all semi unfounded.
• 34:53
  It was like we did the research, we did the work, but it was like,
• 34:57
  I don't know, maybe it'll work, maybe not.
• 35:00
  So it was like we were just excited and I would say maybe what it feels
• 35:04
  like now, a year later is,
• 35:07
  motivated,
• 35:10
  where the difference is like in, understanding
• 35:13
  the expected outcome of it, where now it's like we have a year of it
• 35:17
  under our belt where I've been able to talk to so many people
• 35:21
  know that it isn't just my mom listening to it.
• 35:24
  There are real people that are actually saying that.
• 35:27
  Like, they have tried some of these different,
• 35:30
  tips and kind of brought a lot of these things back to their classroom
• 35:34
  and that I'm like, it's doing what I wanted to do.
• 35:37
  And so that makes me even more motivated to be like, we're on to something.
• 35:41
  Yeah.
• 35:42
  And we're actually helping people.
• 35:45
  Yeah.
• 35:46
  Not just trying to.
• 35:48
  And that feels really good. Yeah.
• 35:50
  I mean, it should and I know I mentioned it before, but really,
• 35:54
  I really, really appreciate that you that you saw this medium,
• 35:57
  you saw this sort of space and recognize like, here's an area,
• 36:01
  a niche that we can kind of get into that's going to help a lot of people.
• 36:03
  And but, you know, it's not just helping educators,
• 36:05
  by extension, it's helping all of our kids.
• 36:06
  And each of those students are getting better because of this stuff, too.
• 36:09
  So I, I have a lot of respect for that.
• 36:12
  Thank you.
• 36:13
  Favorite guest quotes?
• 36:15
  This is the last question.
• 36:17
  Oh. Wow.
• 36:18
  The bowl is empty.
• 36:19
  We got through them all. Yeah.
• 36:21
  Favorite guest quotes or aha moments?
• 36:24
  Are there any that are immediately sticking out?
• 36:25
  Yeah, I definitely have one. Okay. You go first.
• 36:29
  You know, in our in our second episode with David Spooner,
• 36:32
  he, he brought up the,
• 36:36
  the weights in the, in the weight room analogy with AI.
• 36:39
  Right. You know, so okay.
• 36:40
  When basically,
• 36:42
  using AI in the classroom is kind of like going into the gym
• 36:45
  and using a forklift to move the weights,
• 36:46
  the weights themselves don't need to be moved.
• 36:48
  It's what happens in you when you do that.
• 36:50
  And that
• 36:51
  that sort of moment has stuck with me so frequently.
• 36:56
  Yeah.
• 36:57
  And it's actually, I would say it really has kind of a it's shifted
• 37:00
  a lot of the ways
• 37:01
  that I approach my teaching and learning, and I've used that exact analogy
• 37:04
  with students, and I've seen it change them too.
• 37:06
  They recognize, like I'm kind of missing out on a good learning opportunity
• 37:10
  when I outsource this to AI, like that's not the point.
• 37:15
  I'm not generating new knowledge for the world.
• 37:17
  Yeah,
• 37:18
  and I'm not just trying to jump through
• 37:19
  hoops to get a grade, even though there's a lot to be said about that. But,
• 37:23
  I think they just
• 37:24
  sort of recognize like there the point isn't
• 37:29
  this product.
• 37:29
  The point is what's going to go on to me when I do that thing.
• 37:33
  No, I think that's a really good one.
• 37:35
  I also that one, I've referenced it in work, a lot of like this
• 37:41
  is something we need to be thinking about with the products and stuff like that.
• 37:44
  I think something else that
• 37:46
  stands out to me is
• 37:50
  maybe this isn't uplifting enough to end, so we'll have to think of something
• 37:53
  a bit more uplifting.
• 37:54
  It's like how much there is this feeling of like,
• 37:58
  none of us like the way that students are being assessed,
• 38:02
  like we are all deeply unhappy
• 38:05
  with the existing way
• 38:09
  of like we got to get these kids into these universities.
• 38:13
  This is what the universities want.
• 38:15
  This is our current way of evaluating students.
• 38:19
  But none of us feel good about any of this.
• 38:22
  Yeah, and that's come up more than I was maybe expecting it to.
• 38:27
  And I think that we're on to a lot of great things like,
• 38:31
  the learner passport with Conrad Hughes, with the,
• 38:34
  deep learning seminars with Matt, Matthew Granville, you know,
• 38:38
  obviously approaches to e-assessment and kind of move in that direction.
• 38:41
  Like, I'm I was super inspired talking with Matt and we,
• 38:44
  we got to chat with him twice and yeah, you know yes I'm, I'm
• 38:48
  find issues with some of the ways we're assessing things.
• 38:51
  But at the same time when I speak with Matthew and I understand
• 38:54
  like what the aims are and what we're trying to do within the IB
• 38:56
  in the assessment, like I really agree with a lot of that.
• 38:58
  So when I say like this is powerful,
• 39:00
  it can move us forward in a, in a really good way. Yeah.
• 39:02
  So I like the intense of it.
• 39:04
  But I think yeah, my issue now is more along the lines
• 39:07
  of admissions recognition and also just what's meaningful for kids.
• 39:13
  Yeah, I think too often the kids, associate
• 39:16
  meaning with that grade and that number they're going to get.
• 39:19
  Yeah.
• 39:20
  But you know, anybody who's been in any workshops of mine
• 39:23
  or has to suffer me as their DP coordinator at school,
• 39:26
  like I'll talk about the diploma program
• 39:28
  as being a meaningful, achievable and enjoyable thing.
• 39:31
  It's not torture. It's not hell.
• 39:33
  It's like it's a meaningful, enjoyable and achievable thing.
• 39:37
  And, I think too often kind of that stress of assessment
• 39:41
  or the things that kind of make it feel like
• 39:42
  I just have to memorize this content, pull us away from that. Yeah.
• 39:46
  And so many conversations we've had have really focused in
• 39:48
  on the skills development,
• 39:50
  concepts development, the IB profile development.
• 39:52
  And I think that's the stuff that we recognize
• 39:54
  you can't, as Matthew said, you know, I never want to assess caring.
• 39:58
  Yeah I never should.
• 40:00
  But at the same time, you recognize
• 40:02
  when we put that at the forefront and then since grow in a lot better ways,
• 40:06
  I think that's a, that's a really positive thing.
• 40:08
  Yeah.
• 40:10
  You know, it's I think for both of us
• 40:12
  now a year on into the show,
• 40:15
  we would be remiss not to thank our,
• 40:18
  our listeners, you know, the people who are kind of coming in
• 40:21
  and tuning into the show, listening to this stuff,
• 40:23
  giving us feedback, you know, checking out the things afterward,
• 40:26
  you know, sending us guests recommendations
• 40:28
  and ideas of who to talk to and that sort of thing.
• 40:31
  You know, just a big thank you to each of you
• 40:33
  who tuned in and listened to the show and kind of put up with my terrible jokes
• 40:37
  and all that stuff, or, taking us off piece or whatever it is.
• 40:41
  You know, we we're really, really glad that that you're listening to the show
• 40:45
  and you find it useful and hopefully it's inspiring your practice, as well.
• 40:49
  Yeah, definitely.
• 40:50
  I'm so grateful to be part of the space.
• 40:53
  Be able to,
• 40:54
  yeah,
• 40:55
  introduce you to people that maybe you've wanted to hear from for a long time
• 40:59
  or you didn't know existed, and now you're so glad that they existed
• 41:02
  because they have fundamentally changed the way that you're teaching.
• 41:06
  So for all of you, definitely,
• 41:08
  thank you.
• 41:09
  Big thank you to Katie and Zveki.
• 41:12
  Yeah.
• 41:12
  Katie, our producer, who kind of sorts out all sorts of stuff for us from,
• 41:16
  you know, who's going to be our guest, when can we meet with them
• 41:19
  and that sort of stuff and does so much work behind the scenes.
• 41:22
  And Zveki, who makes me sound coherent, at least.
• 41:26
  Angel.
• 41:28
  So, big thank you to all of you.
• 41:30
  One year In is pretty amazing,
• 41:31
  and we're looking forward to a lot of more episodes coming up.
• 41:34
  Really exciting guests coming down the line.
• 41:36
  And, we hope you enjoy IB Unplugged
• 41:38
  and you stick around to hear
• 41:39
  all the other different episodes that are coming your way.
• 41:42
  IB Unplugged is a Kognity podcast hosted by John Patton
• 41:45
  and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
• 41:48
  Be sure to subscribe or follow and share with your fellow IB educators.
• 41:52
  If you'd like to submit a topic, request, or question, please do so
• 41:55
  on kognity.com/ibunplugged.
• 41:58
  Let's keep the conversation going
• 41:59
  and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity, and joy.
• 42:03
  See you next time.