Latest / (re)Visitation Rights / RVR Artist Spotlight 02: Jeff Clark Jr | Creativity Doesn’t Like Staying in One Lane.

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RVR Artist Spotlight 02: Jeff Clark Jr | Creativity Doesn’t Like Staying in One Lane. · (re)Visitation Rights

• Revisitation Rightspod: Dollars for a kale shot over here in Williamsburg. ⁓ my god, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well well gonna be that's why I juice myself now. ⁓ god damn. Eight eight dollars for anything on a fuck eight dollars for a shot is just crazy. One of the dudes in the deli tried to charge me five. I was like, I saw I saw $3.99, stop playing, and he changed it. Damn. Yeah. Anyway, welcome to the Revisitation Rights Podcast. I'm Pat. I'm Brandon. I'm Justin. And today we have a special guest in the building. Mr. ⁓ no, sorry. Sir. Jeffrey Clark Jr. Jeff, introduce yourself to everybody. Hi, I'm Jeffrey Clark Jr. Sir. So Jeffrey. Good to be here, guys. Tell everybody what you do. Do a little bit of everything, you know? A Renaissance man. A painter, artist, teacher. I'm a dad, a husband, and a Christian. So a little bit of this and a little bit of that. You know? Little little sprinkle of ⁓ sprinkle of everything on there? Yeah. All right. So, you know, most people Shut off fucking podcast five minutes into it. So tell everybody what you have going on so they don't so you get to ⁓ promote yourself before they shut it off. What I have going on. Yeah, what do you got going on right now? What are you working on? I'm nobody, bro. I'm just I'm just walk I'm just walking the path that God puts in front of me, you know? Like just just going, man. Using my God given abilities and you know, creating art and whoever loves it they consume it. If they don't, all good. Where can people see your art? well you can see it on my website. I sell paintings on eBay. as you can see behind me, do a lot of that, a lot of painting every day. Try to spit out like five paintings a day. ⁓ Damn eBay. Dang. And ⁓ yeah. Yeah, I I write my own films, I st I ⁓ I act in films, I'm a sag after actor. been on a bunch of cool stuff, you know, very blessed to be on like stuff like Law and Order and Law and Order Organized Crime and Godfather Harlem. Been in a bunch of different films, including Mr. Pat Bradley's is how we know each other. ⁓ and yeah, I'm just I'm just grateful, man. Just grateful just to be alive today. You know. I'm able to use the gifts that God gave me, man. That's it. Like that's that's all I want to do. I just want to be cre I want to be creative. I do a little bit of this, a little bit that, and I don't try to pigeonhole myself too much. I just say that I'm an artist, you know, I'm a creator. So Yeah. I've been like that since I was a kid. Since I was like four or five years old. I just knew that I want to be an artist. And I just been doing it ever since. Yeah. That's great. Literally. I remember ⁓ I don't know if you have time, but I got a little story. So like my family's my family's military. ⁓ and so my mom was a military brat, my dad's a military brat. And ⁓ When I was younger, my mom's father was air in the Air Force, and so we used to go to the DOD. And the DOD is the Department of Defense, but we called it it was like where you go shopping and stuff. It was it was a military base in South Jersey. And we used to go there and my that's where mom went grocery shopping because she would get discounts and everything, you know. And ⁓ they had like a coloring contest and I was probably about five six or seven, maybe. And I entered a coloring contest and I won. And I just feel like That's like the earliest remember earliest memory I remember of like knowing like, ⁓ this is fun. I want to do this. I want to like just use colors and I just wanna draw and I've always been like that since I was little. So yeah. So how'd you transition into from drawing into painting? Because painting requires more coloring, a little more color science behind it. From straight drawing to painting, how'd you get into the I don't think I started painting until ⁓ Till recently, like really painting. Like I played around with, you know, like paintbrush and stuff, like little cheesy kits and stuff you get when you're a kid. You know what I mean? Yeah. But up until ⁓ I found this guy on YouTube. His name is Korbelek. He's a really cool artist. And ⁓ I started following him and learning from him as far as like painting, because I could always draw really well. I was like, how can I make these drawings paintings? And so, ⁓ you just literally draw it and you paint it. That's that's all you can that's all you do, it's really easy. And like the color theory, I've always you know, since college I've I've trained in color theory and typography and all these different art forms. So ⁓ that's how I how I know how to do it. But 'cause that I would s but yeah, dude, I would say November of last year, twenty twenty five is when started really getting into painting. And ⁓ yeah. Been doing it ever since. I know talking to a lot of like independent filmmakers, a lot of their early films are black and white because of coloring issues that people have. You know, it's first of all, it's it's hard to color a film, right? But then you have to start color you have to start thinking of why is this actor, you know, why is this character wearing blue? Why is he you can't just pick an outfit and be like, hey, yeah, wear this shirt. You know, that that shirt has subconscious meaning to people. So that's why a lot of independent artists they start drawing, you know, that's why I Wanted to get into like the color drawing, which is usually black and white, shading, you know, things like that, straight into color where, you know, now you have to make sure the colors complement each other. They have a purpose. Like you see Ben Franklin back there. He's a little green in him. It looks like there's a little yellow, red. I'm Yeah. Even you, even your even your video setup right now, your skin tones are more red. Your entire you've got a lot of copinary colors going on and just and your setup right here. I fucked up. I forgot to change the background from aliens, so I left it. I like I like to switch it every episode, but I I fucked up. No, is that a xenomorph? That is a xenomorph. Complimentary colors right now. But yeah, like I I I mean in my films I love messing with different colors and Yeah, you know I I really like to, you know, dress actors and actresses in certain colors. Doesn't matter what the wardrobe is, I just like certain colors and 'Cause subconsciously color means everything. They're very powerful. I tea I I teach right now at a local college and I teach ⁓ you know the colors and what they mean and how powerful some colors can be. And how Sir Isaac Newton developed the first color wheel and how he found out that ⁓ you know, if you if you shoot a light through a a prism, you get all the a white prism, you know, that white light is the presence of all colors of the rainbow. And so I teach them about all that stuff, like color theory. So I'm very, you know. Educated in all that. That's good. Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of I mean, especially in film, a lot of people don't really take color that serious. No, color's powerful. For sure. So I I like I know you I knew you could draw. Like I I've seen you have some drawings years ago. But I I didn't know you could paint, which is it's just pretty cool. I know painting is very hard. Yeah. I mean it's just like drawing. So ⁓ every artist kind of has like crutch they they they either draw it out first or they'll use a projector or they'll ⁓ there's also like Andy Warhol did the same thing. Like all these all these main artists that you know, they all use a crutch because you can't you can't paint everything and know everything. Do you know what I'm saying? Like all the different figures. So like I I have like things that help me along, you know, like sometimes I draw it, sometimes I use a projector. Sometimes ⁓ I'll have my own characters that I make. ⁓ so it just it just depends, you know. Every artist has their thing to help them out. Actually, a lot of artists nowadays, they have assistants creating the the artwork for them. They'll create the original and then an assistant will paint everything else for them. A lot of them do. Yeah. What do th what do you think of that? ⁓ I think when it once once it becomes a business, you kind of have to do that. Because there's no way you're gonna make a living. it's it's more about like quantity over quality. So you're talking mass producing the same painting kind of thing. Okay. Like like prints. You can I mean prints, you know, you can that's you know, I get it. You know, you want to print the same thing. But as far as ⁓ you know, I can't think of an artist that right now I could probably look one up, but ⁓ damn, I I knew one. So anyway, they they ha they hire like assistants and they paint in their style. They train them in their style and they help them. And then when they die, that that assistant kind of You know, keeps going. Next man up. Yeah, yeah. And then they develop their own style from that artist. That's crazy. I think Picasso said, ⁓ good artists copy, great artists steal. So, you know, everything is a remix, man. Everything. There's no origin there's nothing original under the sun. That we everything's been done before. It's just injecting your personality in something that's already been done. ⁓ so and I think that's a healthy way to accept and and think about art, you know. And we're inspired by other artists around us. So yeah. Especially during this time after it's 2026. Everything has been done at this point. Yeah. So I feel like that's a great attitude. Absolutely everything, but like you know there's only what, seven stories? You can only tell a story. I mean, you gotta find your way to tell that one of the seven stories. But technically, there I think there was only like seven or eight like original stories that you have that everything is kind of based off of. Absolutely. And then what makes what makes the art art is w is you. You you put your personality and your twist on it. But everything's been done. Do you think there's a limit to that? Like someone like Tarantino who takes from literally Every scene there's I mean, he might call it a homage to something else. Yep. But every single one of his scenes has something from another film. Yeah. So I mean he's he's he's like a a master thief. He's like a unicorn about with that though, because he's such he's such a film fan and and he he worked in a movie ⁓ what is it, like a movie rental place? Like a Yeah, like block like a blockbuster. But Yeah, yeah. I mean that's what he You know, that's where he got that from. He's seen so many mov more movies than probably we've ever seen. You know, it's like combined. So it's like, yeah, that's his thing. And that's yeah. I remember one the the whistle, remember the whistle from Kill Bill? I saw like the place where he took that was like old British film. ⁓ so yeah, I it's just what he does. I I don't have any problem with that. It works. What about you guys? You guys think there's a limit to how much an artist should take? No? ⁓ Depends. Because if they're if they're taking so much to the point where you're not really able to fit your own style in there then yeah, you're you're going too far. I think it's impossible to like if you're an actual artist and you you do it and you're a director or whatever, anything. ⁓ it's you're gonna you're gonna put yourself into it. It's it's you know. ⁓ a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. This is how you are. That's how God built you. You know, you we're all creators. It's funny because like a lot of people say, ⁓ I can never do that. I'm not I'm like, Yes, you can. We're we we're all creators. If you put enough time and effort into it, you could do it. It'll just be your your version of it. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So I feel like I feel like everyone can paint. Everybody. I agree with I agree with Jeff. So you've I agree with Jeff. You've you've worked on my films. ⁓ have you ever seen my storyboards? That's a different that's a specific style though, right? That could be a specific style of painting. No, no, you don't understand. Yeah, but you're missing what I'm saying. You don't do that every day all the time. If you did it every day and you trained I mean you and you traced on some you traced someone else's storyboards and you develop a certain style and that's what you do, you're gonna get good at it's a skill. I'm I'm on film twenty-two. Okay. So the film that we're all gonna be doing together would be technically f film twenty-two. Okay. So I've done twenty-one storyboards. Not enough. Not enough to be good. So Kendrick said it's not enough. Right? Ten ten thousand hours, right? No, it's not ten thousand. It's not job's not finished. Job's not finished. But you know you know what I'm saying, though, right? What you are doing. I understand. I'm just trying to writing and filming. Right? So that's that's your that's your thing, man. So you every time you do a new film, you're learning something new and you're getting better and better and better and better. ⁓ allegedly allegedly better. Yeah. You are. You are, trust me. We're doing another one. Doesn't mean it's getting better. It's it's like it's human evolution. It's it's gonna happen. Now there are ⁓ specific like artistries like singing. ⁓ you some people think they can sing really well. Well guess what? 'Cause other people some pe some and they can and other people they can't. So it that's another thing with artists of objective, right? So gotta throw that into the in the mix. See I My take on art is is objectively subjective. Okay. You can see something and say that's bad. Not Anyone anyone can, right? you can there's a lot of people that hated Picasso in his work. That's what I'm saying. But Picasso was a classically trained artist before he started drawing like a kid. Mm-hmm. He could do both. But I'm I'm just saying, like you could you can objectively look at something and be like, Yeah, that's pretty bad. Like pretty much across the board. Like what? Yeah. Like ⁓ succession, right? The way it was shot, that's objectively terrible across the board. Jeez. But yet but but yet, but yet, but yeah, for some people, if you go on where I think it's like IMDB, it's rated higher than the Sopranos. Higher. I I said shot. Okay. I said it was objectively shot bad. Well, you took a shot at my show, I took a shot at your show. Well, tech I mean, if we're being honest, the wire is my show. I I I think I would take the wire above the Sopranos. Another slow show and then it gets better. But they're like one A, one they're one A, one B. So it it depends what kind of mood I'm in. But to me, to me, those are one A, one B. But so now aside from aside from painting, you said you ⁓ you're a SAG actor and you recently ⁓ produced your own film. How did you attack producing and directing your own film as opposed to taking on a large role? in someone else's film. How did you attack those specific jobs differently? Well luckily I I kind of went to college for all that art school. I went to I went to art school for ⁓ media arts and animation. That was my degree. So I wanted when I was in high school I wanted develop my own cartoon series that I could draw. And I I love filmmaking, so I wanted to do that. And that's actually where I really fell in love with acting. When I was like animating the characters and I was like, I want to do this. Like I don't want Too much freaking drawing, all these cells, like all these you know pages I gotta flip and freaking take a picture of. Like how much I just want to act this out. And you actually have to act out your characters. ⁓ so I learned the the art of filmmaking through animation. ⁓ so when I went to go create my own film, after I've done all this acting, right, and other people's films, I was I want to do something. I feel like I can do this and maybe do it my way, make it better. so that's why I I decided to just make my own film, and it's It's actually ⁓ once you once you understand acting and the art of acting and living truthfully under imaginary circumstances, it's I feel like it's easier to make a film. Because you can you can really coach actors much better. ⁓ you can get to the you can when you're writing the film, you can get you're like acting it out as you're writing it. I don't know if you do that, Pat. Do you kinda like act it out a little bit? Like do you or do you just imagine your characters? So my I used to do like voices. Mm-hmm. So like each character would have a voice. So I would be sitting wherever I'm working with the dialogue out loud in different voices, different, you know, mannerisms. And like I would act out the scene verbally, but see it in my head kind of thing to make sure that it flowed. That's very similar animation. Nowadays, you plug it into every single screenwriting program has A readback. So you set like, all right, this is a female character, this is male character, and then you just adjust their voices differently and it reads it back to you. And then you work like that. It's not the same, but it's similar. It's similar. Yeah. Yeah. So ⁓ that's how I was like, okay. That's where that's where I kinda got the confidence to to produce my own film, make and write my own script and actually wrote a script in in art school. Because I was starting to really fall in love with acting and want to know more about it. And I actually like my senior year, I like, I'm I know I'm going to acting school. And I I had no clue what like method is. I didn't know any anything about the ⁓ you know, the Meister Technique and all that. And I would walk around I went to college in Philly, I would walk around Philly because I wrote a script called Philly Mobster. I know. Very generic. But I wrote a script called Philly Mobster. And I would I would walk around ⁓ the streets of Philly in like a tracksuit and just like try to get into character, just like Standing on the corner looking people. Like this is like animators do the same thing, like as actors do, for the most part. ⁓ a lot more mirrors, because we're trying to get the facial expressions down of the characters. But we try to get into the characters, you know, mind. It's the same thing with like if you saw Planet of the Apes, right? You saw you see all the all the actors walking around like apes. They're t taught to walk like apes. Well we're taught in the draw apes and how they walk in walk cycles. It's pretty similar. ⁓ it's motion capture, yeah. ⁓ shit. Like the Mark Wahlberg Planet of the Apes, there was no motion capture, it was just people in suit, right? I I will play it. I I love the Planet of the Apes movie, that is easily the worst one. Yeah, yeah. People walk around like apes is wild. Yeah. I but I'm using it as like an example. ⁓ So anyway, it helped me with this film as far as writing it, producing it, working with actors. And I was at the time I was also working for MLB, Major League Baseball, and I was an art director there. So I had a lot of like onset experience with baseball players and you know helping direct them for scripts and shoots and stuff. So I was starting to like get the itch to write and direct. Now, how'd you like it? I'd rather act I'd rather act. Just because I love acting more. I'd rather be an actor. But I I liked the I like the part where I could control the story and I can make decisions on like shot changes and collaborate with the with the actors to change things up. Whereas if you're an actor on set, ⁓ it's not your story and you're you're basically listening to the director. You can bring your own, you know, personality to and your own ideas, but you can't change things. And I I'd liked I liked finding new new paths on set as a director and seeing Where the actors could change and think, ⁓ he could do this instead, it would be way better. And I would change it. And you know what I mean? Like I like that part of it. I like the ability to kind of change things around and ⁓ try to try new things, you know. So I did I really like that. Yeah. That's actually my favorite part too. Yeah. I like I like to work kinda on the fly. Improvisation and you know. Yeah. And then just completely switch something up if it's not like sometimes you see something's not working or You could be sitting there at lunch and be ⁓ shit, I got a better idea. And then, hey, we're gonna switch it. This is what we're gonna do. So I I like that aspect of it. You know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but Yeah. You can I felt like I was like an actor's director because I'm an actor. And I really loved how they would like cont contribute. I know a lot of directors, not you, Pat, because you're very open, but some directors they they're kinda like, This is what I want done, this is how I want you to do it. You know what I mean? And ⁓ I I'd like to have the ability to like, why don't you try this? Or got any ideas for here? What do you want to try here? You know, like and then we just spitball. Yeah, I've actually even if I work like camera with a lot of directors, a lot of ⁓ are very like, Well, no, I wanted an over the shoulder here. I was like, All right, but you got a big ass fucking mirror right there. What do you what do you want to do? You know, we we gotta switch it here. We gotta no no no no. Let's get a black. You know, we'll get something to cover the mirror and When you could have just adjusted it, you know, when I was like, hey, if we move it five feet to the right, you're not gonna get it over the shoulder, but you could cheat it. Just move this guy. ⁓ no, that threw his whole plan off. And it was like, No, no, I can't do that. It has to be here. Fix it in the post. So they spent an hour and ten minutes trying to move the mirror, cover the mirror, instead of just moving five feet. And cheating, like you could have just moved five feet and then moved this guy's chair this way. Just just moved everybody this way. Nah. That's not how he envisioned it. He refused to change. Yeah. It's unfortunate. And at that point it's not it's not a collaborative film anymore. It's hey, I'm I'm paying. This is what I want. That's it. You know a little too militant. Yeah. I mean, where Yeah. Does that happen often where people are just there unwilling to change from like what their vision is? I mean Jeff would know Jeff worked on way more as an actor than I did as a cinematographer, so Yeah. Yeah. It it happens it's common. It's definitely common. Especially if ⁓ Especially if that's part of the story, it's like a and they don't know how to adapt that to come to their outcome. ⁓ Yeah, it it's it's hard. It's hard, man. And then you don't wanna piss anybody off, so you're like, okay, you just listen and then you know it's gonna turn out not good. Do you know what I mean? You know you it's gonna be a mistake. But you don't wanna you know, you don't wanna step on anyone's toes because you know, you definitely wanna keep working and it's it's weird being an actor. ⁓ Yeah, sometimes I question why I do it. Sometimes I question myself, but I I love I love the art of acting. It's just when you collaborate with the wrong people, it makes it not very pleasing. So now what what means more to you? A better project or a better time on set? Better project. Like a project that comes out well versus a project that comes out okay. But the project that comes out okay wasn't really an enjoyable time. And the project that came out okay was a really fun time. ⁓ I I am not selfish. I would say I'd rather have a better product. ⁓ if the experience if I had to sacrifice during the experience and it it's a little bit of painful and there's some problems and you you know, as long as you get through it and it gets done, if it turns out awesome, I'm happy. You know, 'cause there's then people can enjoy it, you know? Like people can actually enjoy it and not all this you know, whatever whatever it is, like that's cinematography. Terrible lighting, terrible audio. I'd I'd rather that all that be great or all that ⁓ yeah, be great at the end. ⁓ than me just have a good time and like make some friends and you know, like think that I sunk my teeth in this character or whatever, and then it turns out bad. No, no, no. I want a I want a great product at the end. I want it to look great, I want it to feel great, I want I want it to make people feel something, you know. Because I'm willing to sacrifice a good time on set and have to suffer a little bit, you know. You know, I've I've been coming across it a lot lately on different sets that ⁓ people would rather have a good like ⁓ an enjoyable time on set than a better project. And it's been a lot in better projects. It's been lonely. You said that yourself, Pat. People are lonely. Yeah, people are lonely. But I'm not I'm not talking like that. It's like ⁓ I I You know, this guy he's a little mean to me. Sometimes that's good. And I'm like, What do sometimes the director's doing on purpose? I was like, You're coming to me, you know, you're st you're telling me what would he do. And then you're like, Well, he said this. I was like, Well, did you do that? Well, yeah, but I was like, Well, okay, you did it, right? So Yeah. You know, and this this is on more more of a crew standpoint than an actor standpoint. Because, you know, crew usually gets treated like shit. So I hate that. I hate that bro. Yeah. I I when I'm on set, I mean unless it's something like I I think like during my earlier times on set I I was kinda like didn't know what was going on. I was still trying to figure it out. I may have been selfish and asked, Hey, how much longer are we gonna be here? 'Cause it's like three o'clock in the morning. You know what I mean? Like I may have said that. But now when I look back, it's not about me. It's not about me. They everyone else is still working, they have a job to do, so suck it up, buttercup, you know, like deal with it. Like we're trying to get this everyone's trying to get the same thing done. And I've definitely learned my lessons from that. And I'm not like that anymore, like I won't make those mistakes again. ⁓ Yeah, you you gotta sacrifice for it's not about you. It's not about you. It's a it's a team effort and you gotta freaking do what you gotta do, you know? So that's how I feel. ⁓ I I'm with you with that. It's just what I've been coming across lately has been the complete opposite. Yeah. My thing is though, like if if there's a big budget involved and you know you need that product to be great. And some you know, sometimes it doesn't it it'll take a less enjoyable time because people might not be on the same page or something in order for that great product to be made. You know? And that's typically how it goes too. Like ⁓ majority of my experiences that were like the most difficult shoots to do, ⁓ I look back at those projects now, I'm like, damn, I was worth it. You know, because I learned a few things. I learned ⁓ how to resolve a certain type of conflict I never ran into before. ⁓ or some type of camera issue I've never run into before. You know, production was set back an hour, but you know, everyone pulled through, everyone had their lunch, everyone ate. Everyone had water, everyone was in good spirits at the end of the day, 'cause knowing, you know, once I get credits from this job, you know, that can really help me and every you know, this project is just great. So it it that great project I feel will benefit more. You know, you gotta go through those rough times sometimes. Yeah, like even with my pro I I just that's just my motto. Like it's not about you. And I'm I'm saying that to myself internally. It's not about you. Even like the the my film that shot, it's called Your Filthy Animal, right? Or I didn't shoot it but I wrote and directed. ⁓ Pat shot it. Pat helped me out on that one. Yeah, yeah. But it's it's not about me. I just felt like the message was was bigger than that. And you know, sometimes the films do well, sometimes they don't. I thought it turned out really well. ⁓ but I just feel like, you know, you you can't be selfish, man. Like this shit this shit is not about you. God gave you these gifts and you gotta just stick with it, you know, and suck it up, baby. Yeah, suck it up. Suck it up. Yeah, I think there's a way to to kind of ⁓ like I try to balance it where, you know, the sets are kind of lighthearted for the most part. Even on deeper, you know, if somebody needs a, you know, for us to tone it down. Like, you know, I try to keep it light, but I'm also very direct. So when it's time When it's time to go, or if there's something I'm not feeling, I'm gonna let you know. Yeah. That's why that's why I like working with you though. A lot a lot of artists don't like that. A lot of artists are of soft. That's the thing. Like I'm just let it fly. I'm like, I'm like, I want you to tell me. Be direct with me and just tell me if something's not working and tell me what to do if I'm not saying it. You know? But like but you know, we we go through it. I'll tell everybody in the beginning, listen, it's nothing, there's nothing personal. Yeah. You know, it's whatever about the project. We're all gonna I keep it light, right? Right. I've been worked on like five films now with Brandon. Everything's pretty light. Right? I crack jokes on everybody. I mean I let everybody crack jokes on me. Me and you together is they they say that we're a bad combination together. Like how often is a director gonna let you crack jokes on him? Never. Everybody, the PA. Excuse me? I had the PA laugh, like we were we were making bald the ball PA was making bald jokes. Yeah. So like you you owe me five minutes outside. Outside, no. But then it's like she fucks something up. And it's like, hey, you gotta fix that. But I no, fix it. And then, you know, they get a little mad or whatever, but they fix it. Like I I fired people in the middle of a film. Chips. So you know, it's You gotta th there's a way to to kinda do both. Like make sure everybody's you know, has that it's not even like a not even like an enjoyable time, just they have that freedom to dive into the character, to play it any way they want, just to to be free enough to try something where it's not so stuffy but we also are strict at the same time. Yeah. ⁓ Disciplined. I like the word discipline. I I don't like that. I like that better in strict. like strict. Yeah. Discipl discipline. Discipline is just more fitting. Because strict is kind of like in that. Yeah. I mean, and it's just a better way to to explain it. But we're all we're all adults, so I would hope that we all take ourselves accountable, like when we're on set, to know that we know like what we're doing. If not, we can ask questions. If we need help, we can reach out to someone else because like you said, Jeff, it's not about us individually, it's about like the entire team. So if I need help or if I'm lacking in something, I might need to ask someone to help me so that the overall end goal of the project turns out the way that we are all envisioning it. Yeah. That takes a lot of people, right? Trust. Trust too, I think. Yeah, and it's it's takes It takes a while to find like you the people you mesh with too, you know. Yeah. Yeah, being on the same page is tough. Yeah, especially especially on a film because you got dozens of people you gotta get on the same page with. You know. Those pages are gonna be crimpled. But every everybody's in a different everybody's in a different role here. So, you know, Justin does modeling and this and that, and you're an actor, Brandon's a director, cinematographer. So everybody has like different things that they do more. Where do you see your specific side? So your main what you do mainly. So Jeff is mainly an actor. Brandon's mainly a cinema. You know, everybody has their main thing. Where do you see that part of the industry headed in the next few years? Because we're rapidly changing. Yeah. It's it look it looks bleak, I ain't gonna lie. It looks bleak. I think acting would probably be the roughest of what we all do here. It's yeah. And it's it already is. I mean acting has always been s extremely difficult to like break into. There's so many gatekeepers and so many egos involved just to get past and a lot of other things, as we know, have been coming out about the acting world. ⁓ Yeah. So I find you know, the twenty twenty five has been a r a really slow year for me. ⁓ I had a really some really good bookings as far as like T V networks. And then it got really slow and AI started like exploding. ⁓ It's it's looking bleak, man. I'm not gonna lie. I love acting. I love the art of it. I l I I love being on stage. I love I love theater as well. I love both film and theater. And it seems like theater's gonna be a little more lucrative as AI explodes because of that human experience. ⁓ I just feel like people don't trust Hollywood anymore and actors and they're not looking at them like they were like 20 years ago, not even 10 years ago, where they kind of look up to them and they like not idolize them, but they respect them. Now it's like it's it's ⁓ they don't it's almost like they don't even respect the art form anymore because they can just do it themselves with AI. It's it's getting a little weird. It's it's really in the weird, which has me questioning like, d do I want to throw myself into this if it's just gonna collapse? Is it worth it? You know? Should I just do should I just stick to stage and be broke the rest of my life? I don't know. You know what I mean? So it's really it's really a problem, dude. I'm not gonna lie. So the film industry and hookers are the only thing to ever really make it through the depression. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, prostitution. Confects and and film industry are the only sex workers. Prostitution and see what do you have now? Right? You got some kind of visual. And you got OnlyFans, right? OnlyFans is the new prostitution. And then you got ⁓ like YouTube, vertical shit, all that is the new type of for this generation. All right. So it it's pretty much a fad, but this is what the new generation is. And it's not dying, it's just evolv not ev I wouldn't even call it evolving. It's just changing. Yeah, it's just adapting to its time. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately that's the way it's going and you know even even for Justin, like it's you know, they're passing him by and he's only in his early twenties. You know, so it's un unless you're with those vertical series and you know, you got AI vertical series now. Yeah, SAG's trying to get SAG is trying to produce ⁓ no, Netflix trying to produce their own vertical series now, right? Ever everybody wants to get in it now because And so SAG wants a piece of that. Like SAG wants to set contracts for that probably. And at least I've heard rumors. I don't have to try yeah, they have it ⁓ I think it's on their next ⁓ so I think they agreed on a contract for it. And I think on their next contract it's gonna go actually go live, but I do believe it was already agreed upon. So yeah, but even that, dude, even that is I don't see it sustaining. If AI is gonna keep growing, which it is, every day it gets better and better. I don't see a way out, man, for actors to like unless you're making your own stuff and people are interested in it. I don't I don't know how it's gonna work with ⁓ people just less interested in Hollywood, man. Like people don't go to the movies anymore. They just don't. You know, like it's everything is is streaming and then everything is like quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. So it's gonna be interesting to see how it all pans out in the next decade. ⁓ movies are actually expensive. I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer over here, ⁓ No, no, no. Listen. That's what I think. It's expensive. It's expensive to take to take a family of four to a movie now. So now here here's something I'm gonna throw in there. So it is expensive, very expensive to take a family of four. It's easy like a hundred bucks. And you're paying for food at the concession stay. You're not like Pat where you're sneaking and you're stealing money from the the the movie theaters by taking your own ⁓ and ⁓ M's. But I'm respectable to everybody else. I'm taking in my own MMs, but I'm not eating a fucking greasy chicken wing sitting next to someone. I did that shit last night too, and it was fucking good. You're a prick. You're a fucking prick for doing it. I'll occasionally order pretzel bites myself, I will say. But that's a pretzel bite, right? That doesn't have an odor to it. D this guy's eating a Chipotle bowl next to somebody. Yeah. I mean there's theaters like that, yeah, where you s there's like tables and you sit down at a table and watch a movie Yeah, that's where I was. That's where I was. No, no, it shouldn't. No, no, no. Chipotle will sound scary. You might as well go see 4D and just get hit, go get hit with fucking smells, too. Fuck that. It's changing, bro. It's changing. But anyway, like with the vertical. So everybody's hopping on the vertical train, right? I want to do this vertical series. I to do this vertical series, vertical series, whatever. About a month ago, they started doing AI vertical series. Yeah. About two weeks ago. The most popular vertical series on earth is a vertical series with cats. AI cats. Times is changing, brother. Who doesn't like cats? Times is changing. But I'm saying now everybody that wanted to jump into that vertical lane, guess what? AI just took over that lane. Yeah, it's it's it's like I said, it's very bleak. And and like dude, I have so many. Awesome memories and they're fond memories. And I'll keep in my heart of like the first time I went to the movies, I think I saw The Rocketeer. And the second time I went to the movies, I saw Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. And like these theaters are packed. I remember like it was just packed, bro. And people just eat popcorn and like everyone it was like a it was like a whole experience. I remember like people laughing and like gasping and ⁓ now you go into movie theaters, like freaking ten people in there. ⁓ it it gets crowded. It depends on what movie to. I go every week. Not in the AMC near me. I go I go every week and last ⁓ last week we went to see for some. I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear solo meal with Kevin James, the King of Queens. It was good, right? Yes, yes. So it was literally the last day it was in theaters. So we went on a Sunday. This is the last day it was in theaters. It's been out for like months now. We figured nobody will be in there. It was fucking packed. I'm I'm happy to hear that actually. Packed. On its last day. And we went on Sunday. Monday I saw it on Amazon Prime the Rent. Mm-hmm. So it's like that was packed. We w Scream Seven was packed, obviously. Yeah, that was definitely packed. ⁓ and I go to ⁓ every time it's available, like Mystery Movie Monday, where you don't know what you're gonna see. So you go there and it's sometimes it's a movie that comes out that Friday, sometimes it's a movie that comes out two, three weeks later. Whatever the you don't know what you're gonna see. And it's fucking packed every single time. I'm talking like front row only packed. That's which is kinda crazy. How long do you think that's it? How long do you think it'll stay like that with Eye? I don't know, but the movies are good. It's not everything because ⁓ actually we just went on Saturday, we saw ⁓ Reminders of Him. It was like a r like a romantic movie. Mm-hmm. And ⁓ it was cra it was packed too. But like ⁓ The week before ⁓ two weeks before that we went to something else and it was there was like five people in there. Yeah. So I feel like it also depends on the movie. True. Well, how would you think about how is Solo Mio be packed because the marketing was not there, right? Well, no, he had that online thing where he played that he played that art teacher and ⁓ I think I did see that. So, you know, the that's another thing. You gotta find different ways to market films now. You can't just do it your typical way. Yeah, it doesn't work anymore. So it's kinda like it's been desensitized. 'Cause your algorithm, you know, your algorithm might not show that movie that you might be interested in. So it's like, how does that getting out to the target audience, the demographic? See, and that's also other problem also, because people listen to their algorithm, right? So you're gonna see only what your algorithm shows you. So you don't know that the other side because you don't look at the other side, you don't, you know, v check out the other side anytime. So you're never getting those met videos or those posters, whatever, push to you. You're getting whatever you normally look at pushed to you. Whatever they think you'll like, they're getting pushed to you. Yeah. So it it's tough. You know, especially especially with movies. Obviously it's even worse with, you know, politics and all that, because you know, you can never get an informed opinion because you're only getting shoved your what you look for. So it's a little tough. But movies especially because, you know, if they know you like horror movies, But you know, you also like comedies. But you're usually, you know, let's say it's October. What are you getting pushed? Everybody knows what you're getting pushed. You're getting pushed all horror shit. When October, there's a lot of great movies that come out that get overlooked. And that's why those movies don't do anything because shit's getting pushed there. And then you take them out after two weeks. Yeah. So it's ⁓ everything is that fucking algorithm and it's it's doing more harm than good. That's confirmed. That's that's confirmed. They they've confirmed that they don't do that for the the greater benefit. No, they do it for money. Ads. And eyes and data and all that shit. So how would you let's say you run a studio, how would you kind of think your studio could save Hollywood? So what things would you implement or how would you change things to kind not Hollywood but the film industry? Instead of changing to how it's going, it kind of I think everybody has that feeling it's kind of on life support at the moment. Yeah. How would you get it off life support? I'm not gonna pretend not to know the answer to that. I don't know. In your opinion, like what do you think would help? What do I think will help? If we all went to bed, woke up the next morning and it was nineteen eighty one again. That's how that's how it'll be better. It's it's not gonna I I don't think it's gonna ch I think it's gonna change. I I don't think anything's gonna make it better. I don't know. Well, I'll be alive. I don't know about you guys, but I'll I'll be here. That was Ronald Reagan, right? No, I'm good on that one. He's like I'm too I mean like unl unless we go back to when, you know, it it was how it was before, but that's not gonna happen. Like things have changed and it's gonna keep changing. I don't think it's gonna go backwards. What about Lowering budgets. Not gonna happen. People are too greedy. Studios are too greedy. Corporation is too greedy. Here's your thing you lower budgets, you lower ticket prices, make it more accessible. Will it happen? No. But that's an easy step one to start. And you what? It starts a handy level. I they're gonna need a wake up hole at some point. Yeah. And ⁓ You know what it is? It's even worse on the indie level. No, because they're gonna they're gonna blame the consumers when it does collapse, like they always do. Well, that's That sucks for you then. Because there's there's plenty of movies getting made outside of Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So so there's a market there, whether it's streaming, whether it's whatever. So you make your movie for a couple hundred thousand, you turn around, you sell it for a little bit of a profit, then you make an X one, you sell it for a little bit of a profit. That seems to be where the market is heading just because and it's even worse now because you can't it's hard to get a film off the ground as an indie because you need that viral marketing like Kevin James it's hard but it's easier now than ever. Because you could just shoot I mean people could just shoot shit on their phones. Like anyone can make a movie now. But is anybody gonna see it? So saturated that's the thing it's oversaturated. And AI in the mix of that Like now people who don't people who don't even ⁓ know how to film and like they they just prop something on the computer and they make a movie. So now w how do you stand out? Yeah. Like it had the ⁓ the guy from ⁓ shit, what was that movie with Ben Stiller and Robert Downey Jr.? ⁓ Tropic Thunder. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Brandon Jackson just posted a vertical series, half AI, half human. So it was like they had some real actors, some AI actors, some real location, some AI location. Like it was a mix and it was vertical. Didn't didn't Darren ⁓ Aronowski just do like a complete AI film film? See, now that now that's someone that's kind of he makes great movies. ⁓ Allegedly. Sometimes. So but you know what? His movies are all Very technically well done. They're written very well. They're acted very well. You know, the story might not hit you, but they're very well done. Now, for someone like him to go straight to AI, it's a little crazy. It's a little concerning. Like I understand James Cameron and Steven Spielberg going AI because a lot of their work is They probably already have. You know. Well, I think Cameron already opened an AI studio, either him or Spielberg. One of them is already like in the works of opening an AI studio. ⁓ we're cooked. We're cooked. But like you would expect them to do that. You had to do it because you love it. Someone that it's so saturated, man. It's just Yeah. You gotta do it because you love it. It's an art form. ⁓ Je ⁓ Jeff, I'm not sure if you saw I I believe it was in Vanity Fair, but I saw this, it popped up on my feed, this article about it was talking about actors. ⁓ in particular in like the New York metropolitan area, how work has been getting so difficult that they have been actually taking up jobs in like hospitality in the hospitals to make ends meet while I guess like it starts to like really dry up. So I was saying that. I think I sent that to you, Pat. And then I just said we're cooked. What what are they doing in the hospitals? Like what are they doing to make I think it's I think it's something to do with like nursing, I guess like getting like patients ready. I didn't read it fully, but I saw it like pop up. But it was ⁓ I sent it to Pat and I was like, ⁓ we're we're cooked. So it's basically telling an actor you have to get a day job. Yeah. Which is always kind of kind of been a thing, right? Until you finally until you make it. Personally, I don't think you should be quit your day job unless you know you can make a living full time off acting. Of course. Yeah. It's always been like that though. But you know, people will tell you you gotta go all or nothing. You gotta go all or nothing. And I don't see it that way. Yeah. Well, especially if you start, you know, you got kids and stuff. It's it's it's different. It's a whole different, yeah. It's a whole different 'cause then you gotta 'cause then it's not about you. Like it's about the your kids, you know, your kids are I'm assuming would be like the primary thing. Yeah. Yeah. But now it's it's just it's just getting more and more difficult. I noticed. ⁓ there's always been gatekeepers, but I just feel like the the f the funnel is getting th the hole in the funnel is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. ⁓ to get in to really, you know, make it as a as a working actor. Because it's almost like there's more opportunities, but now with AI there's gonna be less opportunities. Because the more opportunities come from streaming. But now even that's becoming more like AI is gonna be s taken out over soon anyway. ⁓ and I hate to think like that 'cause I love it so much. But you know, you gotta face reality. It's just technology is just so powerful, man. It really is. ⁓ so You know, we just gotta keep making films that we like and because we love it. I you know, I I do think the audience plays a big role in this too. Like if they kind of don't show the support for the AI, less of it'll be made. There's there's there's starting to be a lot of pushback. There's been there's the pushback is coming. Yeah. Yeah, but it's that it's that loud minority. So so I so you know, like I'm very against AI and ⁓ I don't think in the totality of how they're trying to do it, I don't think it's sustainable just be just off of just environmental concerns. I think what will end up happening probably is is we'll have like a kind of like I guess like the dot com bubble burst thing where some of the some of the companies that are sprouting up, they will no longer exist and they'll have just a couple of companies who are still sustainable over time. Which can help bring it in. Environmental as far as like the data centers they're building for AI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right, because they're they're blacking out cities with that. A couple of a couple of cities have went black with the electricity because of that, right? Well some of these data some of these data centers are taking up more power than it does to light up New York City. Yes. That's crazy. I haven't heard that it's happening now, but I heard that it's it's gonna be that's what it's gonna be. Yeah. Yeah. And That's what it's going to be like in the future. Yeah. And then also we're headed to Ready Player One. That's what I feel like. Terminator two as well. Okay, yeah, that too. Yeah. Skynet. Exactly. Yeah, no, well, well I've seen those, ⁓ I've seen those ⁓ commercials. I I don't know the company ⁓ top of my head, but there's like a company where they have I guess right now they have ⁓ a group of people in like India who are tuning in to this robot who can pretty much like fold your bed, ⁓ do your dishes and it's subscription based. So I'm always thinking, you know, we were I was kinda joking with some I'm like, what happens if you miss the payment? 'Cause it's subscription based monthly. What happens if you don't miss the payment? The robot's gonna look at you You wake up and the robot where's my money? The pillow. So data centers. You see this thing here? Paddington. So this is a CF Express type B card. I bought this card let's say in October. It's a two terabyte. Card. It cost me 299 plus tax, right? So $325. I went to get another one last week because it's $600, $700. We're doing the, you know, we're doing the feature film, and I wanted to have a little more than four terabytes just in case. Yeah. So I was like, let me get another two terabyte. And I sent Brandon the link for it about two weeks ago, three weeks ago? ⁓ it was a month ago, but I just ripped the band. I I bought it. Okay, so it was about a month ago. And it went up to like three nine, was it three, three seventy nine, three sixty nine, something like that? It was like three eighty five with tax. Okay. So was that three forty nine then? Basically. Yeah. Yeah. So I assumed, like an idiot, it was gonna be the same price. So I was like, all right, fuck it. Nope. You know, whatever. I'll just buy it's an extra hundred dollars. I'll just bite the bullet. I sent them a link to show them the proof. It was ten ninety nine. Yeah. Yeah, this guy. $1,000 in a matter of two weeks. Three weeks was it two weeks ago? Yeah. Yeah. We're cooked. They skyrocketed. Invest in NVIDIA, NVIDIA stock. ⁓ I better start changing shit over. Yeah. Yeah, believe it. That's crazy. That was that was so fucking like deflating. Yeah. They're trying to mine you know in Africa and all that mining all the minerals. It's just like it's so sad seeing the that footage. I think it was I think I was watching Joe Rogan and they the guy brought the footage that he shot over there and he snuck. Back to the States. Of all the like the ⁓ the slave labor over there for mining like you know, all the different minerals for a battery and shit. It's insane, dude. Like that's between the AI and the electric cars, there's gonna be nothing left for people. Yeah. No. So then you kinda think about that. Those little things that we I guess we buy for storage memory cards as indie filmmakers, like That more so I feel like it directly impacts the indie industry because if you're talking about large corporations, Warner Brothers, Paramount, Netflix, you know, they can buy that up in bulk and it's a write off for them at some point. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, just shoot on your phone and let it upload the Dropbox as you're shooting. Even that, they're gonna start they're gonna start raising the price on like Dropbox, Google Drive. Like the subscription prices, you mean? But even that, remember it, ⁓ the cloud is also not guaranteed to keep all yourself. And they've some of the like ⁓ when I went into the Google store they said, you know, you should also probably have it backed up on something else like a device. Because think it if if someone hacks that that cloud, they can wipe out everything. True. Yeah, very true. But for the time being, if you can't afford a chip. Nobody can afford a chip. A memory card. Makes no sense. I can't afford a big Well the bag of chips is like half empty now when you open it, right? There's like a lot there's a lot of air in there. I feel like we're complaining a lot this episode this episode. We're realists. We're realists. We're being realists. See, that's the thing. People call it complaining. You listen. Your opinion can't always be positive. That positivity shit doesn't always fly. Well, the positive part is, you know, do it for the love of the art. I'll end it on that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I do I do love it. I really do love it. Creating with you guys and other you know, other artists and directors and writers and I really do enjoy it. ⁓ just gotta figure out a way to pay the bills with it, you know? Pretty much. That's the ⁓ the age old question. So last question before ⁓ we'll stay on AI because I had a question I was gonna ask in the middle, but ⁓ so everybody here has written a script, right? And submitted it to wherever, like a festival or something like that. ⁓ so I do a lot of script editing for other writers. And I have someone that I've been editing his scripts for maybe 15 years now. So everyone he writes, he sends to me, he pays me. I need this touched up. I need this, this, this. I'm having a problem with the ending. Fix it, whatever. So he came to me, he's like, Listen, you know, I'm a little short on cash, whatever. I was No, you know, don't worry about it. He's like, I didn't want to bother you with it. So I submitted to a festival thinking I would get notes. I was like, yeah, yeah. Normally you get like it depends you pay for, right? You know, they rip you off. So those you submit your script to a festival or screenwriting competition. And you can pay for one page, two page, three page, four page, five page, whate whatever you want to pay for in notes. And you get notes from the reader, the feedback, you know, what they would do to improve, shit like that. So He sends it to me. He's like, something doesn't sound right with it. He's like, Can you read the feedback and let me know? Within three lines, it was AI feedback. So I told him I was like, listen, call the you know, call them, write them an email, whatever it is, tell them that you received AI feedback, give your money back. Yeah. You know, get your money back or whatever. So now, how many writers are submitting to these festivals? Thousands of writers across the world. These festivals are charging hundred, hundred and fifty dollars for feedback sometimes, competitions, whatever. So their script is getting uploaded into these AIs. Yeah. For the feedback. So now the AIs are learning off this script. Now their script is going to be portions of their script is going to be recommended to other writers who aren't real writers or who are using AI to help their story or whatever it is. So let's say you have a so now they're getting training methods, they're getting their ideas funneled into this AI system and it's being spit towards others. Shit. Yeah. They do that with resumes now too, corporations do that resumes. You submit a res resume to get a job, they br they run it through AI. All the every every business has been using AI for the past two years already. So no people are not looking at the resume and saying, okay, he can do this. ⁓ that means he could probably do this too. We're gonna give him a shot. Now AI is saying he can do this, but he can't do that. He can't we're not hiring him. And he throws throw the resume away. Yeah. ⁓ the only reason I know that is because ⁓ I s I had a ⁓ I had a ⁓ what do call ⁓ it's a company that looks at your resume. What's that? No, not header. It's a it's like ⁓ a company that looks at your resume, they they assign like someone to you to edit your resume with you and to talk about your background and like strengthen your resume so you can get a job to help you. Mm-hmm. And he was saying that ⁓ you can't write your resume with any graphics on it. Like you know how you put like a little block around your name, or you have to put a little line. So you can't do that because they're feeding this to AI, and AI sees any of that and they can't read it, and it shoots out a bunch of gibberish type and it it gets rid of it. AI AI like automatically like ⁓ what do you what do you call it they just get rid of it ⁓ deny it they deny it deny your resume because ⁓ there's graphics on it so they can't read the graphics so you're saying that has to be just like straight script like from like word like no graphics you can't design it and for like the past twenty years all artists like myself like all designers and artists we design our resume we don't just like write it in word we like Design it would make it look cool so the creative directors see it and they're like, ⁓ that's cool. He he designed his resume too, whatever. So now AI is they're now AI is reading everything. So it's hard to even get like a regular job unless you just keep it super basic. So so I'm not surprised about that at all, Pat. Really not. So he's saying he's so he made a post on ⁓ a website and he's saying he got hundreds of replies. saying they felt that they submitted to festivals and ⁓ competitions and everything and they're all getting AI feedback. And these are top tier competitions, top tier festivals. It's not like, you know, this local festival trying to make a buck. So AI's learning through them, and I know for a fact that one person on my last film couldn't understand some of the writing for it. So I had a bunch of big monologues in in ⁓ my last film. Okay. And they didn't understand the point of view. So instead of asking me, they specifically told me that they put my they uploaded my script into The AI to get an overview of what it meant. Sad. That's wild. That's wild. So now my script is now in the AI sphere. Open domain. And now people can take lines of my dialogue, take you know. Well, ⁓ yeah, I don't know if they can take it. Well, it'll be not take, but it'll be pushed to them. So now somebody puts in a prompt that's very similar, they might get half my fucking story. True. Yeah. They might. So that's fucking L A I, man. I don't know, man. This shit it's not looking good. Especially for writers and actors too. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Because I mean think about it. Yeah, brother. You know, I mean, obviously a writer's not writing It's the reality, you know, of everything right now. Yeah, yeah. You know, a write a writer's not gonna write fucking you know, I mean AI's not gonna write something like Shawshank. No, you know. But they're gonna put Hallmark out of business. They're gonna put Yeah, you know, Hallmark Monday night, whatever movie Hallmark have. They're gonna put those Christmas writers out of business. Not lifetime movie network. Yeah. What? Not lifetime movie network. Lifetime Lifetime. Well, at least right now Yo no, I I I love I love L MN movies and those movies are written and directed and acted very well. Well, that says a lot, and on that note, we definitely gonna have to cut because this shit's gonna go on for another forty five minutes if you said that again. So Jeff, tell everybody where they could watch your film, Your Filthy Animal. ⁓ it's on YouTube. Just go to Metamorphic Creative on YouTube and you can see some of my work, including Your Filthy Animal. And on eBay, if you're interested in looking at my artwork and my paintings, ⁓ Metamorphic Creative on eBay. Yeah, on Instagram, it's just my name at Jeff Clark Jr. On Instagram if you want to. Why not Jeffrey? Sir Jeffrey McClark. Watch a fucking mouth. Sir Jeff. Well we'll throw links to to Jeff's movies and his art in the description. So if you want to check that out, you can go click it. Appreciate it. Yes, sir. ⁓ this is the see. Could this be considered the revisitation? Because we'll call we'll call this the Jeff's Visitation Rights Podcast. Okay. You have visitation rights for me. I appreciate it. You have visitation rights. So when you come back, then it'll be the revisitation. But for now, we'll just call it the visitation. Thanks, guys. Pleasure having you. Come back anytime.