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Surprising Differences in Research Between Men and Women with Kristen Holmes · The Body Pod

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, This is Haley and I'm Lara and welcome
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Speaker 1: to the body Pod. Today on the Body Pod, we
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Speaker 1: speak with Kristin Holmes, who is the global head of
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Speaker 1: Human Performance and principal Scientists at WHOOP. Kristin is a
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Speaker 1: physiologist whose research is focused on sleep, circadian rhythms, recovery
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Speaker 1: and training behaviors and how that impacts physiological and psychological resilience.
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Speaker 1: Join me as we discuss the newest research for midlife
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Speaker 1: women on topics such as sleep, recovery, GLP one agonists, alcohol,
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Speaker 1: and exercise, and how this affects women differently than men.
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Speaker 1: Let's get into the show.
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Speaker 2: Kristin Holmes, I'm so excited, Hailey.
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Speaker 3: I'm so pumped that I finally get to meet you
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Speaker 3: in person. That was like so epic.
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Speaker 4: I love me too.
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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not leaving this conference until i've
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Speaker 2: I don't care anybody else.
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Speaker 3: You're so sweet, Yeah, so funny, so fun Yes, I.
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Speaker 2: Loved meeting you. And of course I've just been following
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Speaker 2: you for a couple of years now, since we did
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Speaker 2: our first Instagram.
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Speaker 3: Live and I know, I know so much research.
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Speaker 2: Has come out and you have just like been at
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Speaker 2: the top of all of these amazing studies and everything
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Speaker 2: that's happening with whoops. So we're going to dive into
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Speaker 2: We're going to get right into it with circadian rhythm.
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Speaker 2: And you had this amazing Instagram post where you talked
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Speaker 2: about how in the health and wellness markets we're kind
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Speaker 2: of misusing I guess, the the the meaning of circadian rhythm,
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Speaker 2: and we're not maybe uh, you know, explaining its purpose correctly.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we kind of. I think what folks
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Speaker 3: don't maybe realize is that our circadian sleep and circadian rhythms,
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Speaker 3: I think are often kind of conflated, right, and there
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Speaker 3: are two separate things, Like sleep is basically an output
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Speaker 3: of the circadian clock, but doesn't itself have a circadian rhythm. Right,
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Speaker 3: So when we try I think when the health industry,
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Speaker 3: you know, very well meaning tries to you know, fix
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Speaker 3: sleep or help folks, you know, fix our sleep, they
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Speaker 3: generally focus around, you know, sleep hygiene, which is really important, right,
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Speaker 3: and the kind of the lead up to bed and
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Speaker 3: we'll talk about that, I'm sure, and that's critical, but
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Speaker 3: really the the what actually impacts our ability to get
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Speaker 3: restorative sleep and consistent sleep actually has to do with
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Speaker 3: our behaviors during the daytime, right, So I think we
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Speaker 3: just kind of miss for some reason, like that seems
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Speaker 3: to be not really emphasized when when we're talking about, Okay,
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Speaker 3: actually how to we improve our sleep, right, Like how
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Speaker 3: do we wake up feeling refreshed every day? And a
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Speaker 3: lot of that has to do with our behaviors during
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Speaker 3: the day. Specifically, one of the very first things that
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Speaker 3: we need to do is actually see morning light that
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Speaker 3: will tell our body that it's time to feel sleepy
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Speaker 3: in about fourteen hours, right. But when we don't get
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Speaker 3: that initial bullis to light upon wakening, our body is confused,
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Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't really know what it needs to
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Speaker 3: do with that at that time. So you know, I
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Speaker 3: think the big opportunity with this concept of circadian alignment
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Speaker 3: is really trying to match our behaviors. Okay, when we
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Speaker 3: want to feel alert with the natural light dark cycle.
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Speaker 3: When I want to feel sleepy, we match that with
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Speaker 3: the natural light dark cycle. So that means that when
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Speaker 3: we want to feel alert and we want to wake
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Speaker 3: up the clocks in our body, we actually need to
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Speaker 3: see light. Right, So within twenty minutes of waking, we
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Speaker 3: want to get our eyes in the sky, I say,
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Speaker 3: sky before screens, right, we want to get our eyes
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Speaker 3: you know, out into the skies, even if it's cloud covered. Right.
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Speaker 3: That's going to have a huge impact on our sleep
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Speaker 3: at night, you know, especially women who are entering into
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Speaker 3: perimenopause and perimenopause and menopause, Like this becomes even more
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Speaker 3: critical for us, right, Like we need to strengthen our
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Speaker 3: circadian rhythms, Like our life depends on it, right, And
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Speaker 3: one of the best things that you can do is
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Speaker 3: see light in the morning. And you know, similarly, once
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Speaker 3: the sun is setting, we also want to you know,
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Speaker 3: view light as as the sun is setting. You know
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Speaker 3: that contrast in the sky again is really a super
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Speaker 3: powerful signal to our circadian clocks that it's actually time
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Speaker 3: to wind down, it's time to deactivate. That gives important
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Speaker 3: information to our body clocks to start releasing melatonin, right,
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Speaker 3: which is is so critical for h for you know,
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Speaker 3: just kind of sleep, but also for you know, it
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Speaker 3: has lots of other purposes that we can talk about.
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Speaker 3: So really, you know, viewing getting those kind of primal
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Speaker 3: thresholds of nature, building that into our routines as often
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Speaker 3: as possible, is is really critical for our circadian health
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Speaker 3: and for our sleep.
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Speaker 2: So when you say go out in the morning, which
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Speaker 2: I feel like I always do this, but not with sunglasses.
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Speaker 3: On, correct, Right, we want to be able, you want
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Speaker 3: your eyes. So so basically we've got we we've got
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Speaker 3: these kind of cones and in our eyes, and and
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Speaker 3: we've got these cells, the intrinsically photosensitive retinal gangly cells,
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Speaker 3: and basically those need to be exposed to the frequency,
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Speaker 3: the spectrum of frequencies in the sky. Right, So if
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Speaker 3: we're wearing sunglasses, we actually block that, right. And and
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Speaker 3: basically those frequencies allow tell our brains so they go
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Speaker 3: into the cones and rods and then go directly to
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Speaker 3: the super chismatic nucleus, which is the control center of
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Speaker 3: our brain. And that basically tells all the cells, tissues
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Speaker 3: and organism organs in our body what they need to do.
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Speaker 3: So we need to basically allow for that like connection. Right,
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Speaker 3: So if we've got sunglasses on, we're basically blocking that connection. Right.
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Speaker 3: So so yeah, take the sunglasses off in the morning,
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Speaker 3: allow your you know, your eyes to you know, watch,
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Speaker 3: you know, see the sky, and of course safely like
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Speaker 3: you don't want to look directly at the sun necessarily,
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Speaker 3: but you want it kind of hitting your eyes so
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Speaker 3: then it can tell that control center in the brain
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Speaker 3: what needs to happen. Because I think the important thing
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Speaker 3: that hopefully will resonate with your your your users, your
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Speaker 3: your listeners is is when we deny our brain this cueue, right,
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Speaker 3: what happens is our body needs to try to figure
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Speaker 3: out on its own what it needs to do. And
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Speaker 3: we're decent at that, right, We com and stayed in
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Speaker 3: all sorts of ways, but that is not the most
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Speaker 3: adaptive path, right that, because what really ensues is confusion.
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Speaker 3: Sell your confusion at a cell your level, and we
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Speaker 3: have cell your confusion. That is the basis of aging
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Speaker 3: and disease. We want to remove the friction and a
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Speaker 3: lot of that friction is honestly, like is stuff that's free,
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Speaker 3: democratically available, right, and it starts with just literally getting
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Speaker 3: out in the natural light as often, really as often
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Speaker 3: as possible. But kind of the non negotiables are, you know,
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Speaker 3: the morning and the evening time.
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Speaker 4: I was just asking, is there a minimum amount of
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Speaker 4: time that you recommend somebody get that morning light and
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Speaker 4: evening light?
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Speaker 3: And also is there a difference when it's cloudy versus not. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: great question. Yeah, when it's when it's cloudy, in theory,
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Speaker 3: you need to kind of spend more time. You're trying
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Speaker 3: to get a total of one hundred lucks of kind
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Speaker 3: of photon energy. And if it's super bright out, you know,
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Speaker 3: lots of you know, the sun is visible, it will
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Speaker 3: probably take about five minutes to get that that light.
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Speaker 3: If it's cloud covered, it's going to take a little
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Speaker 3: bit longer. You know. I think, you know, any amount
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Speaker 3: of time is going to be beneficial. So even if
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Speaker 3: you can only get out there for three minutes, like,
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Speaker 3: just do it. But obviously the more time you're spending,
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Speaker 3: the more you're kind of the more information you know,
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Speaker 3: and the and the more information you're giving your your
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Speaker 3: your body and and the more you're paying down kind
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Speaker 3: of that confusion and or you know, increasing the communication
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Speaker 3: between the cells put it in a positive way. And
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Speaker 3: and yeah, so I think that that that's kind of
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Speaker 3: the protocol. Essentially.
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Speaker 2: It's it's hard to because this is the the easy stuff.
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Speaker 2: I find this with fitness too, that yeah, everyone wants
8:56
Speaker 2: to bypass because they're like, no, just tell me what
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Speaker 2: supplement to take, and like tell you know, all of
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Speaker 2: these other things instead of just like readily available to
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Speaker 2: everyone walk outside.
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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean it's like it's one of those
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Speaker 3: things where it's like anything you layer on top from
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Speaker 3: a supplement standpoint is going to be kind of inefficiency
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Speaker 3: on top of inefficiency if we're not doing this basic stuff.
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Speaker 3: Yeah right, And it's like it's like, I don't think
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Speaker 3: people recognize when you know, our body is having to
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Speaker 3: work so hard, like to do the basic stuff. I mean,
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Speaker 3: that's when we get sick, you know, and that's when
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Speaker 3: you know, we have low mood, and that's when we
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Speaker 3: have we struggle sleeping. That's when we're you know, more
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Speaker 3: insulin resistant. Like there's such a strong connection between you know,
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Speaker 3: all of these things that we talk about in the
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Speaker 3: world of kind of health and this concept of circadian alignment.
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Speaker 3: So you know, light behavior is just such a I
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Speaker 3: think it's really at the base of human health and functioning.
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Speaker 4: We talk a lot about the big rocks and the
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Speaker 4: little rocks when it comes to strength training and you know,
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Speaker 4: getting a body composition. So besides the morning light and
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Speaker 4: the evening light, what are some of the other big
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Speaker 4: rocks or routines that people should start thinking about incorporating.
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Speaker 3: And in order of importance.
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Speaker 4: So you know, it sounds like morning light evening light
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Speaker 4: are very high importance. But what are the other things
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Speaker 4: that in order of importance if you were starting to
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Speaker 4: build these habits over time.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, you know, just after you kind
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Speaker 3: of view the sun the sunset, I would say, restricting
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Speaker 3: artificial light is important. So you know, the blue rich
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Speaker 3: light is basically going to tell our brain when you
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Speaker 3: have blue light, blue rich light that's hitting your eyes
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Speaker 3: and white light that's going to basically tell your brain
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Speaker 3: that it's time to be alert and time to be awake.
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Speaker 3: And as a result, it's going to suppress melatonin. So
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Speaker 3: we just want to we want to allow that melatonin
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Speaker 3: to get release the en dodgens malton and so the
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Speaker 3: melatonin that we're producing, you know, in the in the brain,
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Speaker 3: we want that to get released naturally, and the only
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Speaker 3: way that it can get released is is through is
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Speaker 3: through darkness, So we have to limit the light exposure
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Speaker 3: at night. That would be the other really really big rock.
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Speaker 3: And then I would say, you know, I'm a really
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Speaker 3: big fan of time restricted eating. Uh, based on you know,
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Speaker 3: a lot of the literature and a lot of what
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Speaker 3: I see in our data in terms of late night
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Speaker 3: meals impacting our resting physiology and our sleep in very
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Speaker 3: profound ways. You know, it's right there behind alcohol. Actually
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Speaker 3: while sleeping at altitude is the big uh that changes
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Speaker 3: people's resting physiology the most. That's second on the list.
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Speaker 3: And I think late night meals when folks report eating
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Speaker 3: late night meals, I think that's fourth on the list.
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Speaker 3: So it's it's a it's a huge offender, right in
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Speaker 3: terms of our impact on our cardiovascular kind of overall
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Speaker 3: cardiovasculal health, as well as just our our ability to
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Speaker 3: to to drop into to deep sleep and to to
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Speaker 3: rem and and and get that restorative sleep. So I
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Speaker 3: would say time restricted eating, which of course is different
12:15
Speaker 3: than intermittent fasting. Right, They're just two completely different things.
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Speaker 3: So I just don't want your I know, we talk
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Speaker 3: about fasting not necessarily being productive for women. I'm in
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Speaker 3: that camp, But time restrict to eating is not intermnute fasting.
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Speaker 3: So I just want to make sure that interminute fasting
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Speaker 3: time re strected eating has a circuiting component one hundred
12:34
Speaker 3: percent of the time, right, it's literally just eating when
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Speaker 3: the sun prioritizing all of your calories, you know, when
12:40
Speaker 3: the when the when it's daylight, right when your body
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Speaker 3: is primed to utilize those nutrients. When you're going to
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Speaker 3: be most active, when you're going to be lifting and
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Speaker 3: running and doing you know, all of your really active things,
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Speaker 3: you're socializing, you need nutrients right to fuel your body.
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Speaker 3: And that's when your body is most you know, sensitive
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Speaker 3: to to be able to metabolize and utilize those nutrients.
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Speaker 3: And indeed, we know from from you know, a lot
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Speaker 3: of the literature that exists. We become more insulin resistant
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Speaker 3: the later as the day progresses, right, we're just not
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Speaker 3: as capable of using you know, uh, glucose in a
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Speaker 3: in a in a in a productive way. So that's
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Speaker 3: I think one of the big reasons why we see
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Speaker 3: such an impact on our resting physiology and sleep is
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Speaker 3: just this competition that exists and just the insulin resistance
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Speaker 3: that happens over the course as the days progressing.
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Speaker 2: Are we in trouble those of us that sleep at altitude?
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Speaker 3: No, I mean you just no, I know, I know,
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Speaker 3: I mean you're just adapt I think, but uh, yeah,
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Speaker 3: you know, I don't really know. I don't. I'm not
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Speaker 3: aware of the data. You know, if if those folks
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Speaker 3: are in some way you know, not as healthy or
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Speaker 3: I mean, I would think it would probably be the opposite,
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Speaker 3: you know. I I would think though that in the
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Speaker 3: extra stress altitude puts on your body, that perhaps when
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Speaker 3: you layer on you know, other knotty behaviors, it might
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Speaker 3: actually have a compounding effect. You know. I don't know
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Speaker 3: this for certain, but but we could. We have a
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Speaker 3: ton of members in Colorado. Be really interesting to do
14:21
Speaker 3: some sort of comparative analysis, So keep us posted. I definitely,
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Speaker 3: I definitely will. It would be really easy to kind
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Speaker 3: of run that sudes. Just look at when you know
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Speaker 3: folks are reporting drinking alcohol, you know, controlling for all
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Speaker 3: the things that we need to you know, in Colorado
14:39
Speaker 3: versus other you know, we could basically do kind of
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Speaker 3: a matched cohort.
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Speaker 4: People travel some like like my husband for example, he
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Speaker 4: uses the whoop and he travels. So when he's at
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Speaker 4: sea level, check what is what is sleep looks like?
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Speaker 3: Because do you have a geal location? We do, No,
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Speaker 3: I mean travel is I think you know, is right
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Speaker 3: there in the top five in terms of Yeah, So
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Speaker 3: I mean any sort of you know, time zone change
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Speaker 3: is going to have you know, an absolute you know
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Speaker 3: is going to be crushing to your resting and.
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Speaker 4: Being the sleep difference between sleeping at altitude versus sleeping
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Speaker 4: at sea level. I know both of us sleep way
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Speaker 4: better at sea level, and then when we get yes,
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Speaker 4: the higher mountains, we both.
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Speaker 3: Sleep like absolute crap. Yeah you know, no, we definitely,
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Speaker 3: like I said, we actually have those data. We just
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Speaker 3: did our year in review, so we looked and we
15:28
Speaker 3: looked at what has the biggest influence on recovery, and
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Speaker 3: sleeping at altitude is the second. So that's people who
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Speaker 3: reporting ore at sea level, who report sleeping at altitude
15:41
Speaker 3: have a real negative impact on restling physiology. So we
15:45
Speaker 3: do have those data, but it would be interesting to
15:47
Speaker 3: kind of do a deeper dive and look at and
15:49
Speaker 3: see what behaviors actually shift. You know, if people doing
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Speaker 3: these knotty behaviors at sea level, if it has less
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Speaker 3: of an impact than people who are at at an altitude, Yeah,
16:03
Speaker 3: I'm now I'm intrigued.
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Speaker 2: So for those of us, like in perimenopause menopause, our
16:10
Speaker 2: sleep already goes to crap. So I feel like this
16:13
Speaker 2: conversation is so important but it's really hard because I
16:17
Speaker 2: always have clients that like, yeah, Hayley, I get it,
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Speaker 2: Like I get it that sleeps super important, but you know,
16:23
Speaker 2: I'm not sleeping for X y Z obviously controlling what
16:26
Speaker 2: we can control. How terrible is it for those women
16:32
Speaker 2: because I get asked this all the time if they
16:34
Speaker 2: wake up in the middle of the night and they're,
16:36
Speaker 2: you know, awake from I don't know one to two,
16:39
Speaker 2: just kind of get out, go to the bathroom, and
16:41
Speaker 2: they just have a hard time falling back to sleep,
16:43
Speaker 2: and then they're like, well, I'm already awake, so I'm
16:45
Speaker 2: just gonna look at my phone and make sure that
16:49
Speaker 2: does that just ruin the whole sleep cycle.
16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean those ip rc RGCs I was talking about,
16:58
Speaker 3: those are really sensitive to blue light and are you know,
17:02
Speaker 3: play a really key role in suppressing melatonin. So you know,
17:06
Speaker 3: it's and you know, and again, melatonin is not just
17:12
Speaker 3: you know, to kind of make you feel sleepy, uh,
17:15
Speaker 3: it has so many other protective effects. It protects melatonin
17:18
Speaker 3: protects your brain. It you know, we know as well
17:23
Speaker 3: from the literature that it's the less circulating melatonin, the
17:29
Speaker 3: higher risk of cancer. So it has a you know,
17:33
Speaker 3: carcinogenesis is the initiation of cancer cells. Are you know
17:38
Speaker 3: are are you know we've seen this, you know, causalconocausal
17:41
Speaker 3: relationship between melatonin and carcinogenesis. So you know, light at
17:47
Speaker 3: night is just it is really damaging for your health.
17:52
Speaker 3: So you know, I I you know, I think strategies
17:57
Speaker 3: like you know, doing some breath work right when you're
18:00
Speaker 3: you're waking up. I mean I'll do I'll get you know,
18:03
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I know a lot of folks
18:05
Speaker 3: would do like a yoga, a Nidras script, So again
18:07
Speaker 3: that might you know, I try to figure out how
18:10
Speaker 3: to do that without like looking directly at your phone,
18:12
Speaker 3: you know, if you want to start a script. I
18:14
Speaker 3: know that could be hard when you have a partner,
18:15
Speaker 3: but I mean just literally, you know, kind of calming
18:18
Speaker 3: the nervous system. You know, there's one an army study
18:22
Speaker 3: they basically one of the most effective ways of getting
18:26
Speaker 3: folks to fall back asleep was picturing yourself in so
18:32
Speaker 3: two places, either under a tree where it was just
18:36
Speaker 3: kind of warm and you felt really at peace, and
18:39
Speaker 3: you're just kind of laying on a blanket, there's a
18:41
Speaker 3: warm breeze, you just kind of visualize that. And the
18:44
Speaker 3: other scene was you're in a in a canoe, a
18:48
Speaker 3: bottom of a canoe and you're just you know, very gently,
18:52
Speaker 3: you know, kind of wafting and it's it's warm, and
18:56
Speaker 3: you know, it's just a warm evening. There's a cool breeze,
18:59
Speaker 3: and you just kind of yourself in these kind of
19:01
Speaker 3: scenes right that where it's really pleasurable, it's really calming
19:04
Speaker 3: and relaxing. You kind of pair that with some you know,
19:08
Speaker 3: really slow pace breathing, and all of a sudden, you know,
19:11
Speaker 3: you start to kind of bring yourself back down because
19:14
Speaker 3: what's happening in these awakenings is it's just a spike
19:17
Speaker 3: and cortisol, right, And a lot of that has to
19:20
Speaker 3: do with again, our daytime behaviors. You know, are we
19:24
Speaker 3: seeing light at night?
19:26
Speaker 4: Right?
19:26
Speaker 3: If if the answer is yes, well that is going
19:28
Speaker 3: to increase the chances of awakening, right because again it's
19:31
Speaker 3: the melatonin, right, we want to have that circulating aboutone it.
19:35
Speaker 3: We want to protect that. Right. When we're not protecting that,
19:38
Speaker 3: it's going to impact our sleep. It doesn't matter what
19:40
Speaker 3: age you are, right, but we know perimenopause, menopause, you're
19:44
Speaker 3: going to be way more sensitive, right, And that's why
19:47
Speaker 3: you know, at the conference last week, I was like,
19:50
Speaker 3: you know, we need to we can't just wing it, right,
19:53
Speaker 3: we don't have that luxury in perimenopause and menopause. Like,
19:56
Speaker 3: we have to be way more strategic and we have
19:59
Speaker 3: to dial in I think to and to your point,
20:00
Speaker 3: like what are the big rocks, like you know, dialing
20:03
Speaker 3: in our light behavior. It's just like that is such
20:05
Speaker 3: a key, right if you want to have restorative sleep,
20:07
Speaker 3: you just got to get that right. So you know,
20:10
Speaker 3: using all of these other techniques that we know work
20:13
Speaker 3: is going to be the first line or defense, right.
20:17
Speaker 3: And then you know, I would say again, you know,
20:21
Speaker 3: making sure that we're not going into bed with you know,
20:24
Speaker 3: meals that are going to kind of spiker blood sugar. Obviously,
20:28
Speaker 3: alcohol before bed one hundred percent of the time is
20:31
Speaker 3: going to impact our resting physiology. You know, within two
20:34
Speaker 3: hours of bed. You know, we see women who are
20:37
Speaker 3: in perimenopause have two times the number of disturbances than
20:42
Speaker 3: men same age right when they're drinking alcohol within two
20:46
Speaker 3: hours of bed. So you know, there's we're just more
20:50
Speaker 3: sensitive right to this stuff, and it kind of stinks,
20:54
Speaker 3: but you know, we can't get mad at the guys.
20:55
Speaker 3: That's just the reality of the situation. We just we
20:58
Speaker 3: have to like take control of some of these things
21:01
Speaker 3: that we can control. And and certainly, you know that
21:03
Speaker 3: glass of wine, a couple of glasses of wine before bed,
21:06
Speaker 3: you think it's not impacting you, Well, that's probably contributing
21:09
Speaker 3: to the wake up during the night, right, and the
21:11
Speaker 3: lack of restorative sleep. And then you get in this
21:13
Speaker 3: like hideous cycle right where you're just always behind the
21:17
Speaker 3: eight pall right, and you're wondering why your hormones are
21:20
Speaker 3: all fucked up. Well, you know that's a huge contributor.
21:23
Speaker 3: And and I don't mean to be like so hardline
21:25
Speaker 3: about it, but again I go back to we don't
21:28
Speaker 3: have the luxury to drink before bed, right, ye, Like
21:33
Speaker 3: there's it's going to come at a cost, and we
21:35
Speaker 3: just have to be super aware of what that cost is.
21:37
Speaker 3: And then just you know, you make a decision. You know,
21:40
Speaker 3: if if you're if you're going to be drinking alcohol
21:42
Speaker 3: before night, like, don't complain about your shitty sleep. I'm sorry,
21:45
Speaker 3: Like that's that.
21:46
Speaker 2: The body composition too, I mean all comes into play.
21:49
Speaker 2: If you're if we are struggling to lose weight. It's
21:53
Speaker 2: how much of these controllable things do you have to
21:56
Speaker 2: just like negotiate with yourself, Like, Okay, maybe this, you know,
22:01
Speaker 2: maybe if I am going to not cut out alcohol together,
22:04
Speaker 2: maybe I have something in the afternoon a post tonight.
22:08
Speaker 3: I mean ideally, it's you know, no question, you know,
22:10
Speaker 3: it takes on average about four hours to clear your system.
22:14
Speaker 3: One drink to clear your system. And we see this
22:16
Speaker 3: on the platform, like if I have a perseco at
22:19
Speaker 3: you know noon, like it's going to be out of
22:22
Speaker 3: my system by five, right, And I can see this
22:24
Speaker 3: on the stress monitor data, which is looking at real
22:27
Speaker 3: time heart rate and HRV and basically I kind of
22:31
Speaker 3: get to baseline about four hours after I drink. So
22:34
Speaker 3: you know, if I'm going to go to bed at
22:35
Speaker 3: you know, nine point thirty, like back of it and
22:38
Speaker 3: just have my last drink four hours before that. But
22:41
Speaker 3: that's what I'm saying strategy, right, like, let's be smart
22:44
Speaker 3: and just understand like the things that are going to
22:46
Speaker 3: move around our ability to kind of show up and
22:49
Speaker 3: be the best version of ourselves. And we already know
22:52
Speaker 3: that estrogen is going to be suppressed right during estrogen
22:55
Speaker 3: is decreases, right, And there's a relationship between estrogen and
22:59
Speaker 3: sleep quality, so we need to protect our estrogen, right,
23:03
Speaker 3: And and melatonin and estrogen interact, right, so again we
23:07
Speaker 3: need to protect our melatonin to protect our hormones, right.
23:11
Speaker 3: And melotone isn't a hormone, but they they're interacting, right,
23:14
Speaker 3: So you know, there's they're all, you know, all of
23:17
Speaker 3: these behaviors are kind of related. But I think that's
23:20
Speaker 3: you know, white is just a big rock. Alcohol time
23:25
Speaker 3: restricted eating is another, I think, really big opportunity that
23:28
Speaker 3: that folks might not be leaning into. And in that
23:31
Speaker 3: window can be you know, a to whatever you're comfortable with.
23:35
Speaker 3: But you know, generally I try to stay within an
23:37
Speaker 3: hour left or right to sunrise sunset is kind of
23:42
Speaker 3: seems to be a pretty good, pretty good window. Obviously
23:46
Speaker 3: in the winter it's just a narrower time frame, but
23:48
Speaker 3: I just kind of roll with the seasons and and
23:51
Speaker 3: that seems to be pretty effective for me personally.
23:56
Speaker 2: So when you had this was on your Instagram as well,
24:00
Speaker 2: when you look at poor sleep over a year, and
24:02
Speaker 2: if we're awake between ten and four more than twenty
24:05
Speaker 2: five days in a calendar year, like it takes off
24:10
Speaker 2: how many years.
24:11
Speaker 3: Of yeah so yeah, So the stat is if you're
24:16
Speaker 3: awake for two hours between ten pm and four am,
24:22
Speaker 3: for two days per week for twenty five weeks of
24:28
Speaker 3: the year, you qualify as a card carrying shift worker.
24:32
Speaker 3: And we know that shift work reduces lifespan by about
24:36
Speaker 3: ten years. We did a study with acute care surgeons
24:42
Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy okay, a QTE care surgeons, and
24:45
Speaker 3: we looked at their data over the course of an
24:47
Speaker 3: entire year, and the mean age in that study is
24:51
Speaker 3: forty three years old. We are trying to pull kind
24:55
Speaker 3: of an age match cohort, but what we ended up
25:00
Speaker 3: doing just just kind of see how they compare to
25:02
Speaker 3: like our general members who are not shift workers on
25:06
Speaker 3: our platform, and basically their resting physiology looks like that
25:10
Speaker 3: of a sixty year old on our platform talking seventeen years. Right.
25:19
Speaker 2: That's tough.
25:21
Speaker 3: It's really tough. So we know shift work is. You know,
25:24
Speaker 3: it's the World Health Organization, whatever you think about that entity.
25:27
Speaker 3: I know people are really critical of them, but you
25:30
Speaker 3: know they've labeled shift work as a carcinogen, right, and
25:33
Speaker 3: we know that again, you know, light at night right,
25:36
Speaker 3: light at night is just the biggest defender. We are
25:39
Speaker 3: not biologically set up to have light at night to
25:44
Speaker 3: look at, to have light entering our eyes into our brain. Like,
25:48
Speaker 3: we're just not set up for that.
25:50
Speaker 2: So quick question before we move on. I have a
25:54
Speaker 2: client that has well, one of my good friends and
25:57
Speaker 2: a client that both have infants, like late forties, very
26:02
Speaker 2: early fifties, I mean, and you're just like, well, you're
26:06
Speaker 2: getting up with a baby regardless, I mean, any of
26:09
Speaker 2: course there.
26:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I know, you know, when I yeah,
26:14
Speaker 3: I mean, I know when I was nursing my kids,
26:16
Speaker 3: I mean I had my bassinet like right next to
26:18
Speaker 3: the bed, and you know, they you know, they cry,
26:21
Speaker 3: I just like pull them over, feed them, put them back.
26:25
Speaker 3: You know, like that's just how I rolled. And I
26:27
Speaker 3: you know, at the time I was, I was coaching,
26:29
Speaker 3: I was a vision I head coach. I was you know,
26:31
Speaker 3: head coach to the seventeen national team. I just you know,
26:33
Speaker 3: had a really busy, like crazy schedule and demanding like
26:38
Speaker 3: probably most of of the folks you work with, and
26:41
Speaker 3: I just try to make it as easy for myself
26:43
Speaker 3: as possible. And just that's that's how I did it.
26:46
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, so I wasn't getting up out of
26:48
Speaker 3: bed going into the nursery like I just that's just
26:51
Speaker 3: not how I did it. And it worked really well
26:54
Speaker 3: for me, Like I kind of was able to get
26:56
Speaker 3: back into a sleepy state and moved through that period
26:59
Speaker 3: pretty well. I mean I nurse both my kids for
27:02
Speaker 3: about a year, so yeah, that that worked decently well
27:06
Speaker 3: for me. And obviously they're not they're not eating during
27:08
Speaker 3: the night. You know, after about eight months, you know,
27:10
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a lot easier. But but yeah, I
27:13
Speaker 3: mean those first eight eight months or so are just
27:15
Speaker 3: they're hard, you know, And and that's I think where
27:17
Speaker 3: you have to be again strategic, especially as an older mom. Potentially,
27:22
Speaker 3: you know, you need to think about, you know, making
27:25
Speaker 3: sure you're not accumulating too much sleep debt. So getting
27:28
Speaker 3: you know, naps in when you can as long as
27:30
Speaker 3: you're you know not, uh, you want to protect and
27:34
Speaker 3: your your biological sleep, your nighttime sleep. So try to
27:38
Speaker 3: get that nap in, you know, earlier in the day.
27:41
Speaker 3: Really try to avoid falling asleep on the couch, like
27:44
Speaker 3: you know, you just that that stuff really starts to
27:47
Speaker 3: degrade your biological you know, the nighttime quality of your sleep.
27:53
Speaker 3: So just being really smart about you know, about how
27:57
Speaker 3: you're thinking about how you're managing your day and yeah,
28:00
Speaker 3: building and naps and stuff.
28:04
Speaker 4: So Christen, if we can improve our sleep, what benefits
28:07
Speaker 4: can we will we actually physically get from improving our sleep.
28:12
Speaker 3: Well, you'll live longer, right, I mean, there's you know,
28:14
Speaker 3: there's lots of really good data around the relationship. Yeah,
28:18
Speaker 3: the relationship between sleep wake consistency. So you know, sleep
28:24
Speaker 3: duration matters, but sleep consistency or sleep regularity is actually
28:29
Speaker 3: correlated with you know, with all cause mortality. So really
28:33
Speaker 3: trying to stabilize when you go to bed and when
28:35
Speaker 3: you wake up is super important. Again, the light behavior
28:38
Speaker 3: will get you there, right, but but that's that's really
28:42
Speaker 3: critical that you're kind of going to bed and waking
28:44
Speaker 3: up at a at a similar time. Sleep timing also matters,
28:49
Speaker 3: so you know, we know that if we were to
28:52
Speaker 3: put all the healthy adults on a mountain in Colorado
28:56
Speaker 3: is actually where this study was run, and and we
29:01
Speaker 3: basically eliminated all of the artificial light so they only
29:04
Speaker 3: had exposure to natural light, all of those folks would
29:08
Speaker 3: fall asleep about you know, three to three and a
29:11
Speaker 3: half to four hours after the sunsets within thirty minutes
29:15
Speaker 3: of one another. Okay, So this notion that we have
29:20
Speaker 3: these wildly you know, you know, wild variations in chronotype
29:24
Speaker 3: in terms of evenness and warningness, it just doesn't hold
29:27
Speaker 3: up in the literature. So, you know, we're all, you know, adults,
29:31
Speaker 3: healthy adults who do not have circadian or sleep disorders
29:34
Speaker 3: are all going to feel sleepy around nine, you know,
29:38
Speaker 3: somewhere between a thirty and ten. Right, And so when
29:42
Speaker 3: we bypass this natural pressure for sleep, the sleep timing,
29:46
Speaker 3: it comes at a big cost. Right, So it comes
29:49
Speaker 3: at you know, you're dying sooner, you you know, have
29:52
Speaker 3: you're more vulnerable to mood disorders, you're more vulnerable to
29:56
Speaker 3: psychiatric disorders. We know there's a strong correlation between and
30:00
Speaker 3: you know, basically when you look at kind of circadian
30:03
Speaker 3: rhythm disorders, like, there's not one mental health and in
30:08
Speaker 3: kind of psychiatric issue that isn't linked to circadian disruption. Right,
30:13
Speaker 3: So when when our circadian rhythms are disrupted, obviously that's
30:16
Speaker 3: going to impact our sleep, as we talked about, but uh,
30:20
Speaker 3: that's going to profoundly impact your your your your mental health, right,
30:24
Speaker 3: and obviously your your energy levels during the day are
30:27
Speaker 3: going to be compromised. So there's this really you know,
30:32
Speaker 3: it's it's you know, we look at cardiovaster disease and diabetes,
30:35
Speaker 3: and you know, when our sleep is not you know, optimized,
30:39
Speaker 3: we just become more vulnerable to to every disease. Right,
30:43
Speaker 3: So I think it's it's a huge opportunity right to
30:47
Speaker 3: you know, and if we're not figuring out how to
30:49
Speaker 3: leverage that, we're just we're just we're putting ourselves at
30:52
Speaker 3: a huge disadvantage, you know, from just a you know,
30:55
Speaker 3: just the ability to kind of move around the world
30:58
Speaker 3: and in a way that feels good, but just survival
31:00
Speaker 3: and disadvantage.
31:02
Speaker 2: Yes, how does exercise play in sleep deprivation? So if
31:08
Speaker 2: somebody started working as shift shift worker, I mean, bless
31:13
Speaker 2: bless them, all of the people at the hospital, we
31:16
Speaker 2: couldn't function with them.
31:18
Speaker 3: No, I know, unless we just did a whole rehaul
31:21
Speaker 3: of modern society where you just have to The problem
31:24
Speaker 3: is like we have all these you know, accidents at night,
31:28
Speaker 3: people are out and about that night, like just going
31:31
Speaker 3: everyone goes about at eight thirty. We don't need we
31:33
Speaker 3: don't need, we don't need all. Yeah, I mean just
31:38
Speaker 3: to deliver stay home. Yeah, but but that's a whole
31:42
Speaker 3: other topic. But but yeah, I mean I think there
31:47
Speaker 3: there's other leavers. I think that shift work can shift
31:50
Speaker 3: workers can think about certainly exercises is enormous, right, and
31:54
Speaker 3: we actually see so if we're in the process of
31:57
Speaker 3: really trying to define healthy sleep, because we as a
32:01
Speaker 3: science I say, sleep scientists, there's not real consensus on
32:05
Speaker 3: what healthy sleep looks like. But you know, we have
32:08
Speaker 3: obviously the enormous privilege of looking at millions and millions
32:10
Speaker 3: and millions and millions of sleeps, billions of sleeps, right,
32:14
Speaker 3: and what we're able to what we're able to see
32:18
Speaker 3: in the data so far is that you know, folks
32:20
Speaker 3: who are low fit, so folks who have a high
32:23
Speaker 3: BMI okay, as well as high resting heart rate, low
32:27
Speaker 3: heart variability for their age bracket.
32:30
Speaker 4: Okay.
32:30
Speaker 3: So these are low fit people versus high fit people
32:33
Speaker 3: have very different sleep architectures. One of the most salient
32:38
Speaker 3: differences is that low fit people drop into rem faster.
32:44
Speaker 3: They have decreased rem on set latency relative to high
32:49
Speaker 3: fit people. Decreased rem onset latency is a predictor of
32:53
Speaker 3: depression risk. Yeah, I know, this is this is a
32:59
Speaker 3: little bit of a you know where these are preliminary data.
33:01
Speaker 3: This is going to rock you know, the I think
33:03
Speaker 3: this is this is a this is a big one, right,
33:06
Speaker 3: and but we've been able to replicate it.
33:07
Speaker 4: It.
33:08
Speaker 3: We feel very rock solid that this is a reliable
33:11
Speaker 3: effect in a reliable finding. And we know that this
33:14
Speaker 3: decreased Ramond set latency has already been shown in external literature.
33:20
Speaker 3: So it's really interesting to see though that your cardiovascular
33:26
Speaker 3: and BMI profile actually predict this kind of decreased remont
33:32
Speaker 3: set latency, how fast you fall into rem and light
33:36
Speaker 3: sleep of a fit, high fit person versus low fit
33:39
Speaker 3: person totally different in terms of like the curves like
33:43
Speaker 3: it just it just looks their architecture is fundamentally different.
33:48
Speaker 3: So another reason like exercise, right, Like exercise and movement
33:52
Speaker 3: is just a huge piece of this puzzle. Yeah, So
33:57
Speaker 3: that was that's a really exciting Like we're excited about
34:01
Speaker 3: this research in particular because I think it's going to
34:03
Speaker 3: highlight again. You know, I think people know, yeah, I
34:06
Speaker 3: need to exercise, but gosh, yeah you need to exercise.
34:12
Speaker 4: Exercise being important like what time of day people do exercise.
34:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think this is so I've looked at
34:21
Speaker 3: all of the literature related to this, and I think
34:23
Speaker 3: what it comes down to is the light. Right when
34:26
Speaker 3: with folks are really sensitive to to to light, it's
34:32
Speaker 3: going to have a bigger impact on their ability to
34:34
Speaker 3: fall asleep, right if they're exercising close to bedtime, and
34:39
Speaker 3: if if they're not as sensitive to to to light,
34:43
Speaker 3: I think it's probably going to have less of an impact.
34:45
Speaker 3: It also depends on how much sleep depth they have. Right,
34:49
Speaker 3: if they're really really tired and exercising at night, they're
34:52
Speaker 3: going to collapse, right. But maybe if they if they're maintaining,
34:56
Speaker 3: you know, meeting their sleep need, generally might impact their
35:01
Speaker 3: their onset latency because they kind of get you know again,
35:03
Speaker 3: if they're exercising in the light, that's going to you know,
35:06
Speaker 3: send the alertness signals and I'm going to be you know,
35:09
Speaker 3: suppressing melatonin production, so I might just not feel as sleepy.
35:14
Speaker 3: So that might impair my ability to kind of fall
35:16
Speaker 3: asleep when I want to. But I think this is
35:19
Speaker 3: really individual and people kind of have to play around
35:21
Speaker 3: with it. I know some people who are time constrained,
35:24
Speaker 3: they just you know, they they that's the only time
35:28
Speaker 3: for them to work out, right, And and I do think,
35:31
Speaker 3: you know, back to shift work, I do think, you know,
35:34
Speaker 3: prioritizing exercise is a way to pay down a lot
35:38
Speaker 3: of the risks associated with, you know, being up during
35:44
Speaker 3: the biological night, right and engaging in shift work exercises
35:48
Speaker 3: is really a non negotiable for these folks, right, because
35:51
Speaker 3: you can improve your insult sensitivity, you can improve you know,
35:54
Speaker 3: you improve every marker of health right when you're when
35:58
Speaker 3: you're exercising. So I think that is absolutely critical for
36:02
Speaker 3: shift workers to to figure out a way to build
36:06
Speaker 3: you know, strength training and polarized training into into their
36:10
Speaker 3: into their routines.
36:12
Speaker 4: So my son is very into all of the light research.
36:18
Speaker 4: So he gets up in the morning, looks at the sunlight,
36:20
Speaker 4: he looks at the sunset every day. At night, he
36:22
Speaker 4: wears a headlamp that's got a red light on it.
36:25
Speaker 4: And I didn't really understand why he was doing that,
36:28
Speaker 4: but I'm understanding it now. If he goes and works
36:31
Speaker 4: out a gym in our home gym at night, he
36:33
Speaker 4: just wears his little red lamp and doesn't turn any
36:35
Speaker 4: of the lights on.
36:35
Speaker 3: So is that what people should be doing. Yes, I
36:38
Speaker 3: mean I think that's a that is an awesome, awesome hack.
36:41
Speaker 3: I mean even just getting you know, if you have
36:43
Speaker 3: the luxury and the privilege of having a home gym, Yeah,
36:47
Speaker 3: setting it up with you know, uh, it's called I
36:50
Speaker 3: think it's blue zero. Maybe it's basically lights that do
36:54
Speaker 3: not have any blue blue wavelengths. But but yeah, I
36:58
Speaker 3: mean what's great about red light light is that, you know,
37:01
Speaker 3: it's it just it that it's basically has a longer
37:06
Speaker 3: wavelength and lower energy than blue light. So it's gonna
37:09
Speaker 3: it's gonna have a it's not going to impact melatonin production. Yeah.
37:14
Speaker 4: Great.
37:17
Speaker 3: So all right, let's move on to.
37:20
Speaker 2: Hrv okay and and what that means, because you kind
37:24
Speaker 2: of just brought that up between you know, a low
37:28
Speaker 2: heart rate varied variability, high heart rate variability, and how fitness,
37:34
Speaker 2: you know, how you are kind of plays into that.
37:36
Speaker 2: But what are we looking at when we are looking
37:39
Speaker 2: at our hrv okay?
37:43
Speaker 3: So heart variability is most simply the time interval between beats,
37:48
Speaker 3: and the higher the variability between those heart beats, generally,
37:53
Speaker 3: the healthier your cardiovascular profile is. So the more able
37:59
Speaker 3: you are to adapt and respond to, you know, all
38:03
Speaker 3: of the external stress in the environment. When your hearty
38:06
Speaker 3: variability is suppressed, that is, there isn't a lot of
38:09
Speaker 3: variability between those heart beats. Generally speaking, you're going to
38:12
Speaker 3: be less effective at adapting to external stressors. So, you know, Harry,
38:18
Speaker 3: variability is just a it's a wonderful proxy for your
38:23
Speaker 3: overall resilience profile, and not just your physiological resilience, but
38:28
Speaker 3: your psychological resilience as well. And we see that, you know,
38:31
Speaker 3: there's a really strong relationship between your you know, your
38:36
Speaker 3: mental health and your hearty variability. I posted I got
38:39
Speaker 3: this great and this is just a post from one
38:42
Speaker 3: of our members, but or a share from one of
38:45
Speaker 3: our members. But basically he was getting treated for depression
38:48
Speaker 3: and really trying to get himself on a better path,
38:50
Speaker 3: and it basically shows he's like, you know, what what depression,
38:55
Speaker 3: what beating depression looks like in your HRV, And it's
39:00
Speaker 3: basically just this amazing like increase. I mean, he went
39:03
Speaker 3: from basically a baseline of like thirty to like a
39:06
Speaker 3: baseline of like one hundred and ten, and it was
39:09
Speaker 3: just like it's those moments where I'm just like, oh,
39:12
Speaker 3: you know, it just like just makes my heart so
39:15
Speaker 3: full to kind of see you know, your to be
39:18
Speaker 3: able to see that manifest in your physiology in that
39:21
Speaker 3: way is really inspiring that I can you know, by
39:24
Speaker 3: improving my mental health, I can actually improve my ability
39:28
Speaker 3: to show up in the world, you know, with the
39:30
Speaker 3: kind of capacity that allows me to live my values
39:34
Speaker 3: with more joy and more energy. You know, just to
39:36
Speaker 3: see this kind of psychophysiological relationship is is just I
39:41
Speaker 3: just I love it so so HRV is just this
39:45
Speaker 3: wonderful proxy. You know, as you get fitter, you know,
39:48
Speaker 3: as you do more resistance training, and as you you know,
39:51
Speaker 3: do more intentional kind of polarized training, you are going
39:54
Speaker 3: to see increases in your hearty variability, right, and that's
39:57
Speaker 3: going to you know, you'll see improved in your sleep,
40:01
Speaker 3: You'll see improvements in just you know, your your your mood,
40:05
Speaker 3: you'll see in your patience levels, like you know, things
40:09
Speaker 3: get better when your horty variability gets better. And and
40:12
Speaker 3: that's because it's you know, it's really uh it's it's
40:16
Speaker 3: a function of the heart, of course, but it is
40:18
Speaker 3: it originates in the autonomic nervous system, right, and basically
40:22
Speaker 3: your autonomic nervous system is kind of competing to send
40:25
Speaker 3: signals to the heart. And you know, you've got the
40:27
Speaker 3: sympathetic branch, which is the fight or flight, and the
40:30
Speaker 3: parasympathetic which is the rest and digest. And when your
40:33
Speaker 3: heart is healthy, your heart is going to be responsive
40:36
Speaker 3: to the demands of of of both the sympathetic and
40:39
Speaker 3: parasynthetic branches the nervous system. And and that responsiveness is
40:44
Speaker 3: basically is what is going to allow us to kind
40:48
Speaker 3: of show up in the world in a way that
40:49
Speaker 3: feels really good.
40:51
Speaker 2: So when you talk about polarized training, we're talking about
40:55
Speaker 2: like different cardiovascular systems.
40:58
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so you know zone I kind of and
41:02
Speaker 3: this is and I have a lot of data on
41:04
Speaker 3: the platform and actually, Helly, I looked at these data
41:08
Speaker 3: specifically for you a while ago when we talked about
41:10
Speaker 3: doing this podcast, so I've been sitting on this for
41:12
Speaker 3: a really long time. I just basically looked at women
41:15
Speaker 3: forty plus and women forty less than forty years old
41:20
Speaker 3: who are engaging in in this polarized training and I
41:23
Speaker 3: and I wanted to get a sense of their BMI,
41:26
Speaker 3: their heart rate and their heart and their resting, their
41:28
Speaker 3: heart rate variability and their resting heart rate. But but yeah,
41:31
Speaker 3: polarized training is essentially just a you know, where you're
41:35
Speaker 3: you're basically, over the course of the week, you're getting
41:38
Speaker 3: into zone five, which is kind of your maximum heart rate,
41:42
Speaker 3: you know, for short periods of time, and then zone
41:45
Speaker 3: two is basically you're operating at forty to sixty percent
41:48
Speaker 3: of your maximum heart rate for a period of time.
41:51
Speaker 3: And you know, I kind of went into it, you know,
41:53
Speaker 3: I wasn't really sure what I'd find in the data,
41:55
Speaker 3: but women plus forty will move there bm I by
42:00
Speaker 3: three points more if they include both zone two and
42:04
Speaker 3: zone five. Okay, I know three points. I was like,
42:11
Speaker 3: holy shit, we're going to publish these data. We literally
42:14
Speaker 3: we you know, we I've been so excited about it
42:16
Speaker 3: because and this is what has precipitated a lot of
42:19
Speaker 3: my you know, my energy around zone two because you know,
42:23
Speaker 3: it's it's not just about you know, zone two isn't
42:26
Speaker 3: about just BMI, right, even though we see that that
42:29
Speaker 3: is in fact one of the ways to really move,
42:32
Speaker 3: you know, move your BMI is actually incorporating both of
42:36
Speaker 3: these types of training. And obviously, if you want to
42:39
Speaker 3: like really throw gas on the fire like resistance train,
42:42
Speaker 3: you'll be bulletproof, right. So this does not take into
42:46
Speaker 3: account resistance training. This is purely looking at the time
42:48
Speaker 3: spent in zone five and zone two over the course
42:50
Speaker 3: of a week. But you know, we're looking at really
42:55
Speaker 3: huge amounts of data, right, not just a week time, right,
42:58
Speaker 3: We're looking at it and yeah, and you know we're
43:00
Speaker 3: looking at three months of data. I think oftentimes we
43:03
Speaker 3: think about zone two as as as just this like
43:05
Speaker 3: be a my mover, right or you know, lean body
43:07
Speaker 3: mass mover, when yes, it's that, But more importantly, I
43:11
Speaker 3: don't know that there's any modality that's more effective at
43:14
Speaker 3: that at improving your mitochondrial health, right. And you know,
43:18
Speaker 3: and and I think like we need to you know,
43:22
Speaker 3: when you think about the impact of mitochondrial health on
43:26
Speaker 3: your hormones, right, and being able to kind of transition
43:29
Speaker 3: into these periods you know, with with you know, less
43:34
Speaker 3: abrasive symptoms. Right. I see that zone too is a
43:38
Speaker 3: really big part of this conversation that I think we
43:41
Speaker 3: might be glossing over. And you know, we're I really
43:45
Speaker 3: want to dig into this question a bit more because
43:48
Speaker 3: you know, I obviously I want to be able to
43:50
Speaker 3: give women the best possible advice, you know. I mean,
43:52
Speaker 3: we're really trying to improve our coaching, you know, on
43:55
Speaker 3: the platform, and you know this is that's my place
43:58
Speaker 3: to try to scale this stuff right and to try
44:00
Speaker 3: to scale the right kind of prescriptions and talking to
44:04
Speaker 3: two women like you who are like on the front
44:06
Speaker 3: lines right trying to deliver these insights and coach women
44:09
Speaker 3: who are in these transition periods. But you know, I
44:12
Speaker 3: think Zone two has a role, and I think an
44:15
Speaker 3: important role. And we see that really really clearly in
44:18
Speaker 3: the data with regard to BMI. We also see it
44:21
Speaker 3: really really clearly investing heart rate. The only changes investing
44:25
Speaker 3: heart rate come if you're including zone two.
44:30
Speaker 2: Okay, Mike Drop, I feel like we can, I know
44:35
Speaker 2: right there, because that's the part of the conversation, like
44:38
Speaker 2: you said that it's getting missed. So these programs that
44:41
Speaker 2: I run with thousands and thousands of women, and these
44:44
Speaker 2: you know, all of the different programs that I have.
44:47
Speaker 2: All the time, I get asked, well, this has you know,
44:51
Speaker 2: zone two, and it can I just swap it out,
44:53
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you can do whatever you want. It's
44:55
Speaker 2: your program, but let me tell you why it's important.
44:59
Speaker 3: To keep it in.
45:00
Speaker 2: There's a reason why, like you said, the polarizing and
45:04
Speaker 2: and there's so many reasons for both for recovery. For
45:07
Speaker 2: you know, someone that's on limited like a limited calorie budget.
45:13
Speaker 2: You can't go high and hard all the time. They
45:17
Speaker 2: do different things.
45:19
Speaker 3: They really do. They have a fundamentally different purpose. And
45:24
Speaker 3: and I will say that, you know, we see when
45:27
Speaker 3: people engage in Zone two they have higher HRV like that,
45:32
Speaker 3: we see this relationship between Zone two and HRV. So
45:37
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's and I do I mean, I
45:39
Speaker 3: know for my own day and if I need to,
45:40
Speaker 3: like if i feel like I'm just like not really recovering,
45:42
Speaker 3: I just have a Zone two day and I'm literally
45:45
Speaker 3: in the green the next day, like almost like clockwork,
45:48
Speaker 3: you know, like there's something you know, there's something really
45:50
Speaker 3: restorative about Zone two. And I think too, like if
45:53
Speaker 3: you can pair it with you know, I for me,
45:55
Speaker 3: like if I put on a rucksack and I go
45:57
Speaker 3: for a hike in the woods and I go with
46:00
Speaker 3: of like a you know, one of my pals, I mean,
46:03
Speaker 3: holy cow, that's like golden right. I'm in nature. I'm
46:07
Speaker 3: in Zone two with a friend, you know, like it's
46:11
Speaker 3: just like it's just like the ultimate stack. So I
46:14
Speaker 3: understand people are time poor, and I think if you
46:17
Speaker 3: are time poor, yeah, I mean I think resistance training
46:20
Speaker 3: is just absolutely critically that's that's that's at the top.
46:24
Speaker 3: I really really believe that. But I think we need
46:26
Speaker 3: to find time for for both both getting out of
46:30
Speaker 3: breath a couple of times a week, you know, so
46:32
Speaker 3: some version of tabata, some version of sit sprending over
46:36
Speaker 3: training and then and then zone too. It's it's like
46:39
Speaker 3: it all kind of matters, to be honest, you know,
46:42
Speaker 3: when we're talking about this really holistic approach to health.
46:47
Speaker 3: So that's kind of my take based literally just based
46:50
Speaker 3: on the data. You know, I have no skin in
46:52
Speaker 3: the game. I'm I'm in the same boat. I'm just
46:54
Speaker 3: trying to I always want to know how to apply
46:56
Speaker 3: my effort, right like I just I just don't want
46:58
Speaker 3: to guess, right and so and I have seen, you know,
47:02
Speaker 3: in my own daya. You know, I've really been religious about,
47:05
Speaker 3: you know, balancing my my strength training with zone five
47:08
Speaker 3: and zone zone zone two. And you know, I have
47:11
Speaker 3: a cardiovascro profile of a of a twenty five elite male, right,
47:16
Speaker 3: like I mean in terms of like, so like, so
47:20
Speaker 3: I think I'm doing something right, but but you know,
47:22
Speaker 3: it's but I lived almost every day right like I'm
47:25
Speaker 3: not you know so as well. So it's just I
47:28
Speaker 3: think there's huge potential for us out there if we
47:31
Speaker 3: if we're just we figure out how to like build
47:34
Speaker 3: these into our life in a consistent manner.
47:37
Speaker 2: Thank you, kristin that right there. I've been waiting months
47:40
Speaker 2: for that specific question. I have to answer it because
47:45
Speaker 2: of all of the data that you see and and
47:47
Speaker 2: that you're around every day. It really like we have
47:50
Speaker 2: to interweave everything that we've been given and and really
47:54
Speaker 2: not leave anything out. There's there's a benefit to all
47:58
Speaker 2: of it, and a well rounded programs should include everything.
48:03
Speaker 3: I know it will. Yeah, it's it's kind of the
48:06
Speaker 3: just the bottom line unfortunately, but but I think like
48:10
Speaker 3: that's that there's you know, our physical health is tied
48:14
Speaker 3: to our mental health. It's tied to emotional health, like
48:16
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's like if we're not taking care
48:20
Speaker 3: of that, you know, what are we kind of doing?
48:21
Speaker 3: You know?
48:23
Speaker 2: All right, Christ, we are going to wrap this up
48:26
Speaker 2: and see you for round two.
48:30
Speaker 3: Love it, Thanks suit, Thanks for listening.
48:34
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please consider giving us a
48:37
Speaker 2: five star review and sharing the body Pod with your friends.
48:42
Speaker 1: Until next time,