Latest / Kitco MINING / O’Brien Gold Project Growing as 140,000m Drilling Advances | Matt Manson

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O’Brien Gold Project Growing as 140,000m Drilling Advances | Matt Manson · Kitco MINING

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Kitco Mining.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Niels Christensen.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Gold prizes have once again touched$4,500 now.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing a shift in in sentiment at PDAC.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely a lot of optimism in the world's biggest mining conference here today.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And to talk about the mining sector and his project is Matt Manson, CEO of Radisson Mining.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for joining us today.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Niels.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you are CEO of uh Radisson uh Resources Mining.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're in the uh historic Abitibi region.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe just let's start with your project a little bit.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what's been going on?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: You actually released uh new results today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I put out a new resource update.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Project's getting bigger.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, we can talk about that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: The the uh it's a very historic location.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're right on what's called the Cadillac Lard Lake Break outside the town of Cadillac itself.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're three kilometers from Agniko's La Ronde mine.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's over the back fence.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's mines east and west.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Abitibi.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the Abitibi.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So tens of millions of ounces produced over the years.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: O'Brien itself was a former mine between the 20s and 50s and produced about half a million ounces back in the day.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: The company's been drilling this deposit for the last number of years.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Today we put out an update which really tells the market.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interim report.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing step-by-step resource updates here as we do this big 140,000 meter drill program.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we've got about 1.7 million ounces in in furred resources, they're up 82% on the previous estimate, which was just a year old.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're up about 8% in indicator resources.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Overall, it's about, if you combine everything, uh, it's about 2.3 million ounces.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been guiding the market recently.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We think the ultimate target here is something that's in the three to four million ounce range.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the old mine produced half a million ounces.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're already a multiple, four times the size of the historic mine, and we think it's getting bigger still.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: How far are you into the Joe program then?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're only about 25% into this 140,000 meters.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we expect to do another 72.5,000 this year, 32,500 first half of 27.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and none of those numbers are actually in the resource update we put out this morning.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's all still to come.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so obviously um you did financing last year to pay for this.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um oversubscribed.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just, you know, we're at PDAC here.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to get your thoughts on sentiment in the marketplace.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's it what was it like raising the money?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was efficient, it was positive.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: The we went out with a$20 million financing.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh the book was 40 million, it was twice oversubscribed.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: This was back in October, and the market's only, I think, gotten gotten better since then.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was actually just really the start of the rally in the junior resource sector.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so, and and it was very institutional as well.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've been in this game a number of years, and I I've seen much weaker markets than we have now.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I think what what you're seeing right now, you're seeing all the institutional investors are have done very well.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you're running a gold fund, um, you know, you've you've been through a number of lean years, that industry has shaken out quite a lot, and the patience has paid off.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: The last 12 months have been terrific.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're seeing a big return of retail investors to this space, and you're also now seeing uh a real return of generalists.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would I so that's one of the things I wanted to ask as well, because like so um some of the sentence that I'm hearing at the conference here is that generalists are still kind of shy to jump in.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're they're worried that you know, maybe this price, you know, environment doesn't last, or you know, they're afraid that you know they missed the boat.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the mining sector, you know, had a sharp bounce off the bottom.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh 160% gains in the GDX, um, even more in the GDX J in the last like 12 months.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess, but you're not seeing that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, look, I I think there are some fundamental factors at play here.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is that the the investment world is still seriously underinvested in gold, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you've only recently had some of the big Wall Street names, the the CNBC kind of Wall Street names, the Morgan Stanley's, you know, I know the JP Morgan's that you know, they're coming out now with with guidance that you should have a certain proportion of gold in your portfolio, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's new, right?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those guys were kind of very, very, you know, the gold bugs, you know, we're not in that game.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now people are actually being told, right, with their 401ks in the US, they should be owning gold directly as part of a diversified portfolio.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually, amazing as it sounds, relatively recent, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And still, when you look at the numbers, that community of investors is still relatively underinvested in gold.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you look around the world, unfortunately, gold goes with troubled times, right?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in troubled times, unfortunately.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no central banker anywhere in the world right now waking up and deciding to sell some other gold reserves, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's just not a that's just not a factor.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're certainly going to have volatility here, right?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a major correction about three weeks ago when gold, last time gold got up to 5400, did correct down to about what was it, 4,600, 4700?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 44, yeah.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was an opportunity for the bears to kind of come in there and do some damage.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, three weeks later, we're back up again because the fundamentals are the same, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't changed.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does that mean for the junior sector then?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the junior sector is still seriously undervalued, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of juniors out there with$50,$100,$150 valuations um uh per ounce.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: That metric, which is a common metric that the retail investor will use, what is my market cap per ounce of gold?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, for example, Radisson has has had a good 12 months as well.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: But yesterday we were valued at about$160 an ounce with the resource that we had yesterday.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: With the resource we had this morning, we're at$100 an ounce, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Valuation, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's your investment thesis for Radisson.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um that those are those are nonsense numbers when you consider gold at$5,000 per ounce.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: The ability to actually explore for these types of deposits are at discovery cost is$21 Canadian per ounce, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Build a business with that kind of valuation, raise the capital to pursue the development of the project or build the project.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um you put all that money in with gold at$5,000, the margin which is there is has never been better, never been better.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, the junior sector is still systemically undervalued.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the big gains are going to be in the next 12 months, I think.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, our our job, my job as a proprietor of a of a junior resource company with a good asset and a fantastic location is to drill and drill because there are ounces there and we want to show the show the market that's what we have.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I what do you think it takes to get over that last, you know, that that wall of worry, I guess, or or you know, that to to get the junior sector um to catch up?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see, you know, producers, like it's a fantastic environment for producers.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as you said, margins nowadays are I mean, every headline is pretty much record level margins, record record level free cash flow.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um does that need to flow down to the juniors?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do we need to start seeing aggressive uh buying and MA activity?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: It always goes in terms of in terms of a bull market in resource stocks, it always goes the same way, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: The money flows into the bigger names first, the keynote names in gold as Newman and Barrick and Nico Ego, and then it goes down to the producers that are able to show tangible quarterly financial results because of high gold prices, and then it flows into the juniors, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a waterfall of investment.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're gonna see in 26, Niels, is you're gonna see MA, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: That is a that you'll probably pick that up here.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it happens?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think a lot of people were expecting it in in 2025.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you what what is it just this year is I think it I think it started in 2025.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think he did see TOS in 25, and I think it's gonna accelerate in 26.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I and I think uh there's a lot of there's a lot of capital being raised, but the the the the the the senior players in the in the the precious meadows world right now have never had better balance sheets.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: They've never had better financial results.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh we've just had we've just had a round of quarterly reporting in the last couple of weeks.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody is paying a dividend, it seems.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's doing share buybacks.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is there is money on the on the balance sheets of these companies like never before.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is going to manifest itself in M ⁇ E, I think, likely towards the junior market.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's going to be a trend in 26.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So how does Radisson stand out then?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like how or how do you how do you make the company stand out?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just, is it, is it the drill results, is is that enough?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what's the problem?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think well I think I think that's the the type what we've done this morning is we're we've got this big drill program, 140,000 meters, and it's gonna go all the way through this year into next year.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so rather than wait until the end of that program to tell you what tangible results this drilling has given, we've done an interim resource update now.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's us about that's us making sure that everybody understands what we have.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a quality project and it's getting bigger, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's number one, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's the best way we can deliver value right now in our company in this in this environment.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And also, too, um your economics is a little bit different because uh just expla I guess explain how like the the the production would be when you're in production, because you're not gonna actually have a mill, you're gonna be sourcing it out to um you're gonna be sourcing out the supply.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you visited the site, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh a number of years ago.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And a while ago, a while ago.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and it's it's been incredi it's been incredible to see the growth in in Radisson and to see that how that deposit has evolved.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you would have turns nicely off the highway, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's literally just off the highway, and as you drive down highway 117, you're passing other mines the whole way.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've got you've got Westwood to wine with I am gold, you've got La Ronde with the Nicoego, you've got Malartic with the Nicoego, you've got Casaberoti, uh not Casaberoti, I'm sorry, it's further north, you got Sigma Lamac, right, with El Dorado, you've got the old Lapa mine, which closed in 2018 also in Nicoego.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: You see, you're seeing the signposting of mines the whole way down the highway, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there's an observation tower in Lag Pre Sac, just north of us.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You climb the observation tower, you probably didn't do that, but but you climb the observation tower, you can see the headframes the whole way left and right, right?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is that part of the world, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's almost a nonsense to imagine that you would want to build another mill and another tailings facility for this cyber deposit.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the heritage of gold mining in the Abertibee is that the mills tend to exist for decades, right?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: They you know they they go for long mine life, the tailings facilities run for long mine life, and successive ore bodies are developed and put through these mills, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so we presented a preliminary economic assessment last year that was based upon that thesis that our ore would go to another mill, and and we had a at the time we had an MOU with IM Gold, that we were working on a milling assessment for our going to that particular mill at the Dwayne, the Dwayne mill, but it could be any mill.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Our dance card is open and free at this stage.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and we we show what the economics of that is, and it's a very compelling economic picture because you're not building the mill, you're not doing the earthworks of a major tailings facility.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've built mines before.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've got three in my in my resume, and and those are the costly and the difficult things to do.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're just focusing on the mine and the ore is going somewhere else, you've got a very, very lucrative and high-value project.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Does that how does that uh impact sort of the the um permitting process?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like he would that quickly would that speed up the permitting process, the fact that there's no tailings and stuff?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it you know, um no mining CEO should ever promise about sped up permitting processes, but uh, you know, they all they're all bureaucracy.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've and I have gone through permitting processes successfully.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So but um uh it makes it simpler for sure, yeah, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're not having as big an impact on on your footprint is smaller.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and and permitting is very much about the quantity of things.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: How much oe am I gonna process, how many, how much, how many tailings am I going to produce, how much water am I going to consume?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so it does make it simpler for sure.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but and just to point out though, like I think the one mill, when I was there, I think it was like 15 minutes away.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was literally there's literally one three kilometers over the back fence, yeah.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and listen, uh our job in the situation is to keep an open dance card, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: How does our org get into one of these other mills?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's to be determined, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've established the technical criteria and the value proposition of that situation happening, but how it's to be achieved is is a is a TBD.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to be still and so we we drill and we make the thing bigger and and we go forward.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um just sort of more on the on the permitting process.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh obviously you guys are are based in northern Quebec.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how how is the jurisdiction?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, you know, sort of the politically wise, um you know, is it is it straightforward?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is the is you know, will the bureaucracy be straightforward yet?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, so I I've I've permitted mines in two of the best jurisdictions in the world for mining.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I permitted the Renard Diamond mine in the James Bay area of of Quebec.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was in 2011, 2012, 2013.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing the permitting for that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I permitted the Valentine mine in uh Newfoundland, Labrador, that was marathon, acquired by Caliber and now put into production by Equinox.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Two of the best jurisdictions in the world.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that they're the best jurisdictions in the world is because the bureaucracy, the people staffing the relevant ministries, are competent and familiar with the mining business, and and and you have a stable permitting environment, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and in Quebec in particular, you've got a very, very knowledgeable population.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You've got all of the services, you've got all of the people you require.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's um uh and you've got generally a supportive civil society that that understand the benefits of resource extraction done in a responsible and modern way, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is the most important bedrock to actually then move forward with a successful mind permitting and mind development process.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done it before in Quebec, and um and and you know, uh looking forward to seeing O'Brien uh you know become another producer.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess what's next?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, you know, continuing with your Jill program, you still have you know 80% of that to do.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what what do you see?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's the future of Radison?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, let's see.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh it's a public company, so ultimately it's all about shareholder value, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: We know O'Brien um is going to be a mine.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um our board again, uh you know, on our board, we've got Michael Gentili as an important uh uh cornerstone investor, and he's on our board, a major shareholder.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we've got Pierre Baudouin, who built Canada's biggest gold mine, Detour.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've got three mines in my resume.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Peter McPhail, former chief operating officer of Alamos, he's got three mines in this resume.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have nine mine builds on this board.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very capable as a team of taking this all the way through the production, right?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and what all of us need to see coming to this, we're not here to drill this deposit for the next 10, 20 years, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're not there for the expiration, even though the expiration is going really well, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't couldn't be happier with that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: But we're here because there's a mine here.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: For us, we have to see the mine.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so our job is under what conditions and what form that does become a mine, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So as we drill and we make it bigger, it's becoming a better mine, but it's a mine, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think watch the space to see how it actually develops over the next year.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's really interesting.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is how sentiment has changed in that um not a lot of CEOs sort of talk about actual building a mine.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I mean, what what would it take for you to, you know, sort of move forward with with Radisson?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's it's value, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um there are always forks in the roads, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately it has to be what is the best value outcome.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, I've I've taken it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: But do you I well I guess do you think a mine could be built?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, given given you know the the financing, um, you know, all of like the the the costs around it, do you think it would be possible to get the financing to build the mine?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if I had asked you that, like, you know, maybe a year and a half ago, I think that would be a very different answer.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I would have said yes then as well.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: But but you know, but it it it is it is um look, good projects attract financing, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the basic rule, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh this is a good project, and this also has a very particularly efficient capital profile, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if you're not building your own mill and tailings facility, if it's going as a satellite deposit to somebody else's existing infrastructure.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: We had a, in the PEA we put out last year, which was based just on$25.50 gold price, uh, and a snapshot of the resource that we presented today, we had a three times ratio, it's a useful metric, between NPV at 5% and the capital cost of$175 million, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Three to three to one ratio, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is a really, for investors, that's a really important metric of any project study, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is the ratio between the value and the cost?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's ultimately telling an investor, you know, is providing the project financing, uh, what the rate of return of this is going to be and and what the risk profile is going to be, and how ultimately available the capital is going to be for you, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So O'Brien has a fantastic profile in capital efficiency on that basis.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that was a snapshot study of something that, as we've demonstrated this morning, is growing quite considerably.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the biggest hurdle then?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it just is it making yourself like because it's it's a fairly big space.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's a lot of juniors out there sort of, you know, vying for attention and stuff like that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is is that the biggest hurdle?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the biggest hurdle, do you think?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the biggest hurdle, um, it is uh are we look, I I wouldn't say we've worked hard over the last I'd say 18 months improving the profile of the company, improving liquidity of how the stock trades, the mechanics of a public company seeking in seeking investment and seeking valuation, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um so um I I I I I would and now if you're a junior resource company, it's easier than before to get that attention because there's a lot of people looking for good resource projects right now to invest in.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's it's certainly true under the hood of our business, you know, we are short people in our industry.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're short geologists, we're short drillers, we're short drill rigs.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, we've got very good relationships in Quebec and we've got eight rigs secured with our GLL, our drill contractor.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole industry is is straining at the seams a little bit because so much money's being raised, so much opportunity exists, and we don't have the people and the and the resources to actually fully maximize the business.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an under-the-hood type thing, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Which doesn't really necessarily impact the investment thesis.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um but look, this is I was at a an event last night and somebody said this is the best market for investments in resource stocks that they can remember.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been there's been a lot of good markets and bad markets, and for someone to say this is the best ever, that's something.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and I and I think that's probably true.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and well, and you mentioned it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the healthiest balance sheets for senior producers in recent history, in it maybe even history, like it's just you know, nobody's nobody's chasing uh to buy back hedges, nobody's you know, overbidding project, like it's just everybody's I think everybody's sitting on a big stockpile of money wondering how they're going to utilize it.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: We think we have a terrific project that's multi-millions of ounces and it's getting bigger, and there are gold producers out there that are making our market cap in cash flow every two to three weeks.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's how to think about this.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Matt, thank you very much for joining us today.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic conversation.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I wish you guys luck in your uh in your drill program.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Niels.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent, thank you very much.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for watching Kiko Mining.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in for more content from PDAC,