Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Michael Thorn, APRN, C.N.P., M.S.N., M.H.A.

Transcript

Michael Thorn, APRN, C.N.P., M.S.N., M.H.A. · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

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This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's Healthcare
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Podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by
1:18
Michael Thorn, who is a nurse practitioner for
1:21
trauma, critical care, and general surgery as well
1:24
as the chair of the NP and PA
1:26
Innovation Committee at Mayo Clinic. Michael, it's a
1:28
pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
1:30
Thank you for having me. Now I'm really
1:32
looking forward to our discussion because I know
1:34
right now is such an interesting time in
1:36
health care, and certainly the NP and PA
1:38
roles are elevating and continue to evolve,
1:40
within the broader care team. So, you know,
1:42
I think this will be a great opportunity
1:44
to connect and learn more about what you're
1:46
doing at Mayo Clinic. But before we dive
1:48
into our discussion, can you tell me a
1:49
little bit more about yourself and your background?
1:52
Certainly. I I'm a Vermont,
1:54
native. I went to school in Bangor, Maine,
1:56
where I went to nursing school,
1:59
at Husson University. And then I had the
2:01
opportunity to go through
2:03
an internship at Mayo Clinic, where in 2010,
2:06
I was offered a job to work in
2:08
ENT and plastics to start my nursing career.
2:12
And then in 2014,
2:13
I then transitioned over into the advanced practice
2:16
roles, a nurse practitioner and where I'm at
2:18
right now in trauma critical care.
2:21
And I kinda wanna speak more to, like,
2:23
how my innovation journey started.
2:25
In 2016,
2:27
my colleague and I, Rob Hill,
2:29
we submitted an application to our Surgical Innovation
2:32
Accelerator program, and we added this idea to
2:35
develop this surgical drain stripping device.
2:39
And this is really where I started to
2:41
have this potential with pursuing more innovation
2:45
and seeing how clinicians can be more
2:48
active in the actual process of innovating.
2:50
And since that time,
2:52
we've been able to secure
2:54
patent protection for our device, but then go
2:56
through several pitch competitions where we've secured funding.
3:00
And, currently, we're in the process
3:02
of, going through clinical trials and working on
3:05
commercialization.
3:07
But like I said, this is the initial
3:09
process where I started to become
3:11
more and more innovative and being
3:13
more supportive for others to be innovative
3:16
within practice.
3:18
And since then, I've been more involved with
3:20
working with industry partners
3:22
through know how agreements,
3:24
but also helping other clinicians with industry involvement.
3:28
And throughout this journey, I've been able to
3:30
appreciate more and more that there's an immense
3:32
potential for health care professionals, such as advanced
3:34
practice providers,
3:35
to be innovative within practice.
3:39
That's really cool to hear and, you know,
3:41
inspiring to think about how you evolved from,
3:44
you know, kind of your practitioner
3:47
in the work that you were doing on
3:48
the ground level to thinking about innovation, how
3:51
you can make patient care even better than
3:53
actually putting that into action.
3:55
And I love the point you made too
3:56
about being able to support others and being
3:58
more innovative, because, certainly, it is,
4:02
not easy to do sometimes and and certainly
4:04
can be helped if you've got others who
4:06
are cheering you along the way. Now from
4:08
your perspective, I know innovation is important to
4:11
health care today, but it's not always easy.
4:13
So what roadblocks do NPs face to innovation?
4:17
That's an excellent question. So
4:19
as advanced practice providers, we've seen significant roadblocks,
4:23
and this is not just within one institution,
4:25
but across all institutions.
4:28
The first being that there's these un uncoordinated
4:31
efforts. So we all know that health care
4:34
innovation is very sporadic and siloed and very
4:36
slow.
4:37
And MPs might develop great ideas, but without
4:40
a coordinated system to help them capture, develop,
4:44
or implement these ideas,
4:46
they often just remain just that, just ideas.
4:49
So there needs to be a more streamlined
4:50
approach
4:51
from concept to implementation.
4:53
And secondly,
4:55
there's the knowledge gaps.
4:57
While MPs are experts in patient care and
4:59
they're at the frontline with patients, they often
5:02
lack a lot of the knowledge that
5:04
is crucial be to be innovative within practice,
5:07
such as design thinking,
5:09
understanding end user involvement and discovery,
5:12
and just learning the actual business process of
5:14
being innovative.
5:15
So there's definitely this knowledge gap that's difficult
5:18
for MPs and PAs to be innovative.
5:21
And thirdly, I would say there's a cultural
5:23
resistance.
5:24
MPs and PAs might
5:26
face skepticism or push back with their new
5:28
ideas because they're kinda challenging the status quo
5:31
as we know with all innovation.
5:33
And advanced practice providers are not typically seen
5:36
as innovators, but they're more and more just
5:38
seen as the end users of the innovative
5:40
output from others within health care.
5:44
Well, that's really fascinating to hear and definitely
5:46
appreciate how the their additional context,
5:49
you know, in some of those roadblocks because
5:51
I can imagine,
5:53
there are a lot of NPs and PAs
5:55
out there who, you know, have the ability
5:57
to be innovative and really make a difference
5:59
within the care team and care process. But,
6:01
you know, having some of those,
6:04
different cultural challenges as well as,
6:07
not having necessarily the right push in the
6:09
right direction,
6:10
you know, might leave a lot on the
6:12
table.
6:13
So I understand at Mayo, you've developed a
6:15
unique committee based approach to boost innovation and
6:17
engagement. Could you tell me about that? What
6:20
did you do initially, and what were the
6:21
results?
6:23
Certainly.
6:24
So
6:25
throughout my 1st few years being innovate being
6:27
in the innovation ecosystem, I started realizing that
6:30
why are there not more MPs and PAs
6:32
being innovative within practice. And
6:35
this actually kinda started out with
6:37
a clinical innovation questionnaire I put together called
6:40
the CIQ.
6:41
And
6:42
within this questionnaire, there was about 20 questions,
6:45
which I sent out to all the, nurse
6:47
practitioners and physician assistants
6:49
within the department of surgery.
6:52
And that CIQ,
6:53
that questionnaire,
6:54
was really eye opening. What we found was
6:57
that
6:58
80% were calling for more resources to be
7:00
supportive with potential efforts and innovation.
7:03
There's about 63%
7:05
did ex, express desire,
7:08
for being involved in education and training based
7:11
off of creativity and innovation,
7:14
topics.
7:15
But more more interestingly was that 70% of
7:18
the respondents on that survey showed that they're
7:21
willing to be participants in a committee specifically
7:24
for MPs and PAs.
7:25
So I went to the Department of Surgery
7:28
Leadership
7:29
who then gave us a 100% support to
7:31
move forward with our efforts to develop a
7:34
innovation committee.
7:35
And this leadership was really,
7:37
instrumental in our our success because it gave
7:39
us the road map and the institutional support
7:42
to move forward.
7:44
And as we established the MDPA
7:46
Innovation Committee,
7:48
we decided to you know, we wanted to
7:50
have a very diverse group of
7:52
MPs and PAs from different surgical subspecialties.
7:56
So this made up about 8,
7:58
individuals
7:59
going forward.
8:01
And what we did within this committee was
8:03
we had several key initiatives.
8:05
We wanted to provide ongoing monthly meetings with
8:07
educational sessions. So what that entailed was
8:11
within our 60 minute,
8:13
committee meeting on a monthly basis, we did
8:15
provide 30 minute educational sessions for
8:19
not just committee members, but we also included
8:21
those who were not on the committee to
8:23
come and listen at the endpoint of our
8:25
committee
8:25
meetings.
8:26
And this educational session on a monthly basis
8:29
would include
8:31
how to secure your intellectual property, how to
8:33
be involved with prototyping,
8:35
how to pitch your idea and, secure
8:39
stakeholder buy in going forward.
8:41
And then secondly, we also put together a
8:44
monthly newsletter, which allowed us to disseminate a
8:47
lot of the information that we wanted to
8:49
share with a lot of those within our
8:51
department.
8:51
And this included
8:53
updates on funding opportunities,
8:54
networking events, educational sessions, but also,
8:58
project achievements from what MPs and PAs were
9:00
working on. Then,
9:03
thirdly, I put together in, an internal website,
9:07
essentially a central hub,
9:08
for for all the resources that could help
9:10
guide MPs and PAs with innovation. This included
9:14
a wide array of different tools, guidelines,
9:16
podcasts,
9:17
educational resources,
9:19
but also a way to, submit
9:22
a request
9:24
for assistance with their innovative idea.
9:26
And then on my own time, I would,
9:28
on a monthly basis, provide ongoing open office
9:31
hours where
9:32
I would allocate 3 to 4 days a
9:35
month where I would allow MPs and PAs
9:37
to schedule a meeting with me, and I
9:39
would help them go through the process of
9:41
what they were working on with their idea
9:43
and get them to fruition and get them
9:45
to the next step steps in their process.
9:48
What we found was these results were quite
9:50
remarkable from the,
9:52
studies that we did.
9:54
Our primary measure of success with this committee,
9:57
was to
9:58
determine
9:59
how well it improved an MP or PA's
10:03
ability to,
10:04
engage in innovation. And this was measured by
10:06
our annual all staff survey.
10:09
In 2022,
10:11
we found that 66%
10:12
of MPs and PAs within our department
10:15
felt encouraged to innovate. And then after implementing
10:18
this committee with all the initiatives that we
10:20
had,
10:21
this number had jumped to 82%,
10:23
which was a significant increase over 15 points.
10:27
But the impact from this was not just
10:29
a statistical increase. It was we found that
10:31
there was a lot of tangible outcomes that
10:33
came from this committee. And this included
10:36
structuring of new know how agreements,
10:38
multiple people had,
10:40
developed, medical prototypes,
10:43
and, working with industry through other routes as
10:46
well too. So we found that, you know,
10:48
MPs and PAs were engaging more and more
10:49
in the innovation process based off of this
10:52
committee.
10:53
And going forward, we found that, also, is
10:56
that 80% of the
10:58
participants in our survey
11:00
found that, being involved
11:02
in innovation processes would actually positively
11:06
impact their job satisfaction,
11:08
but also their work life balance,
11:10
which is this finding is quite significant
11:13
because it because it suggests that innovation
11:16
efforts could potentially
11:18
improve staff retention, but also job satisfaction.
11:22
That's amazing to hear. You know? And and
11:24
certainly, what a great idea to have the
11:26
committee be put together and and be able
11:28
to support the different,
11:30
clinicians at different levels so that they can
11:32
really realize their visions and dreams and be
11:35
pushed into a space where they can be
11:36
more creative and innovative thinking. And you're right.
11:39
I mean, the results speak for themselves to
11:41
really see how,
11:43
you know, that engagement,
11:45
can make a big difference,
11:47
is just really cool. Now, you know, from
11:49
your perspective, I'm wondering if you could talk
11:52
a little bit about some of the lessons
11:54
that you've learned since establishing the committee.
11:57
Certainly.
11:58
So one was that we found that, you
12:00
know, NPs and PAs
12:02
really are an untapped potential for innovation within
12:04
health care.
12:06
Our professions, we can come to the table
12:08
with unique insights
12:10
just based off our daily patient interactions, but
12:12
also,
12:14
really understanding the boots on the ground, what
12:16
needs to work to make health care better.
12:19
We also found that there is a high
12:21
importance when it comes to education.
12:23
A lot of MPs and PAs
12:25
and as well as nurses do not receive
12:27
a lot of this
12:28
entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship,
12:30
innovation education. And what I found was there's
12:33
a lot of, medical programs that are starting
12:35
to integrate a lot of that education into
12:37
their actual medical training.
12:40
And it's kind of it it's a pitfall
12:41
when it comes to
12:43
advanced practice providers,
12:44
education base.
12:46
So with our ongoing monthly education sessions, we're
12:49
trying to, you know, fill that gap where
12:51
they don't actually get that education starting off
12:53
in their career.
12:54
But now we're gonna try to provide that
12:56
ongoing.
12:57
And then we also find that time and
12:59
resources are critical. And we know
13:02
all hospitals are short staffed, and we're kinda
13:04
running at higher acuity and census levels.
13:07
And we understand that we can't always get
13:09
allocated time and resources. But, you know, we've
13:12
learned that if we could have a little
13:13
bit of dedicated time and some resources, we
13:16
could have a lot more impactful outcomes from
13:19
our efforts within the innovation ecosystem.
13:21
Because a lot of this is all being
13:23
done just on everybody's time,
13:26
1 point o kinda FTE approach.
13:28
Everybody's doing it on their own time, and
13:30
we're being able to show that you can
13:32
still have a considerable amount of outcomes
13:36
without actually having dedicated time, but what could
13:38
it be if you actually gave everybody a
13:40
little bit more time?
13:42
And then also learning is that, you know,
13:44
leadership support is vital. You know, the support
13:46
from our department
13:48
has been crucial in our success, and
13:51
we we applaud and thank them, for providing
13:53
us with the ongoing support.
13:55
So as we know with all innovation processes,
13:58
we really need to have key stakeholders when
14:00
it comes to, you know, going through with
14:02
a project or an idea. And with this
14:03
committee, we've had that vital support.
14:07
And, lastly, I'd like to speak to, you
14:09
know, the innovation culture is
14:11
really self reinforcing. And perhaps more important importantly,
14:14
we just need to learn that once you
14:16
started to foster a culture of innovation, it
14:19
tends to snowball. And, you know, as MPs
14:21
and PAs,
14:22
we see our colleagues to see succeeding and,
14:25
you know, bringing ideas to life. So it
14:27
inspires them to do the same. So creating
14:30
this, you know, virtuous cycle of innovation is
14:32
really crucial going forward. We've seen that through
14:35
our efforts with this committee.
14:38
That's really helpful to understand and, you know,
14:40
really,
14:41
see the evolution of how you worked within
14:43
the committee
14:44
creating it and then, you know, learned, got
14:46
feedback, and continued to, I can imagine, iterate
14:49
and improve on the process.
14:51
Now before we wrap up here, I'm wondering,
14:53
how will you keep up momentum? What are
14:55
you going to do to make sure that
14:57
as time goes on, the energy and passion
14:59
doesn't wane from,
15:01
the innovation committee?
15:03
Certainly.
15:04
I think the first thing we need to
15:05
focus on to kinda keep momentum with this
15:08
is really continuing to provide ongoing education and
15:11
skill development
15:12
within the committee, but also disseminating that across
15:15
to others.
15:17
You know, we're we're committed to ongoing education
15:19
through our monthly sessions, and I'm finding more
15:21
and more topics to bring to the table.
15:24
And, you know, most recently, we've we've had
15:26
conversations with our office of engineering on how
15:29
to submit an idea for a prototype.
15:31
I've done a couple talks on how to
15:33
keep an idea notebook ongoing and just keeping
15:36
that at hand. So
15:38
providing those little educational sessions through, like, a
15:41
microlearning approach is very important.
15:44
Otherwise, on top of that, we would, you
15:46
know, look at expanding our reach. So we're
15:48
looking to expand our community's influence beyond just
15:51
our current scope and then the department of
15:53
surgery, and we're hoping to expand it to
15:55
a institutional level outside of our department.
15:59
And then thirdly is the the mentorship program
16:02
that we're trying to put together. We're in
16:04
the process of developing this mentorship program
16:07
to help connect experienced
16:09
innovators with those who are kinda newcomers to
16:12
the innovation ecosystem
16:14
to help kind of provide some nurturing,
16:16
and guidance through this process.
16:19
Fourthly is working on strengthening our industry partnerships.
16:22
You know, we're we're actively working on building
16:25
more and more stronger relationships
16:26
with industry
16:28
and, multiple different start ups. And this not
16:31
only includes, you know, potential pathways for commercialization,
16:34
but also providing ongoing strategic support for us
16:38
going forward.
16:39
And we really also need to continue
16:41
looking at leadership engagement.
16:43
We're maintaining strong connections within our department, but
16:46
now we're looking at more of our institutional
16:48
level as well too.
16:50
And, you know, the ongoing engagement and
16:53
conversations will really help us strengthen our committee
16:56
and hopefully expand it further.
16:59
And then lastly is, you know, I think
17:01
it's very important to keep a way to
17:03
keep the momentum going is really linking innovation
17:06
to career development. And this hasn't been something
17:08
that's been really talked about in the in
17:11
the past, and I'm hoping we can kinda
17:13
continue this forward, is that
17:15
looking at ways to more formally recognize that
17:18
innovation activities can be
17:20
a way of career development and advancing your
17:23
career with as a MP and PA.
17:25
And this will need to be more and
17:27
more incorporated into our professional development programs as
17:30
we go forward as, you know, leadership programs
17:32
and all are great, but really focusing on
17:34
innovation as a possible gateway to professional growth
17:38
going forward.
17:40
That's amazing to hear. Michael, thank you so
17:42
much for joining us on the podcast today.
17:43
This has been such an inspiring conversation, and
17:45
I look forward to connecting with you again
17:47
soon. Thank you. It was great. Thank you.