Latest / Pittsburgh Sports Memories / REWIND: The Tommy Maddox Season

Transcript

REWIND: The Tommy Maddox Season · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Tim Hannon.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with my co-host, Steve Wirt.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Steve and I are two lifelong Pittsburgh Sports fans who, like many of you, live and die with our team.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And on this podcast, we will attempt to deep dive into the many memories that make up the rich history of Pittsburgh Sports.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're going to talk about the wild and crazy 2002 Steeler season, a lot of frankly weird games that happened that year, and a very um unexpected starter, a quarterback in Tommy Maddox.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: So let's let's get into that topic.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And really the the 2002 season, uh if you really want to go back to where it started, it really started with the end of the 2001 season, which was a loss in the ASC championship game to the New England Patriots at home.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Eventual Super Bowl champion in the New England Patriots.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: The the upstart Patriots, who at the time nobody really knew uh what they were about to become.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so at the time that was a pretty disappointing loss, right, Steve?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, you know what though we should have probably saw it coming.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um Cincinnati, if you remember week it was a the last game of the season against Cincinnati, they gave up uh thirty-some points to John Kitna in Cincinnati.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean they were definitely the defense of secondary was exposed.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think uh Lee Flowers, Brent Alexander, uh Chad Scott and Dwayne Washington.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um if you you know fast forward that th n none of those guys were on the Super Bowl team of two thousand the four Super Bowl forty.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: N I don't think any of them, yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean you can see that there was definitely some roster churn and um probably the biggest thing I remember about that game was there was uh not the biggest, but one of the things I remember is they said um the Patriots they they do their little interviews with the you know NFL guys that are doing the game and they said they were gonna throw the ball fifty times that day.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so I guess they had uh they had figured it out from the Cincinnati game, at least Charlie Weiss and Belichick had, that they were gonna just pass the ball and they were on their way to doing that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: They had thrown the ball.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: By the time Brady got Brady got hurt in that game, Lee Flowers hurt his ankle.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: They had probably thrown the ball twenty times already.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: And now it kind of changed their game plan, not having Bledsoe in there, and I don't think they did they passed as much.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: They just tried to kind of, you know, salt away the win as best they could.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: But and I gotta say personally, that's the game I lost Faye.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: I knew Cordell was never going to be a Super Bowl winning quarterback in that game because remember at the end there were receivers wide open and he overthrew them because Cordell could you know Cordell was the you know strong arm quarterback that wasn't accurate or could read a defense.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it was kind of the end of at least for me.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I guess the team hadn't completely decided to move on from Cordell, but at least me as a fan, I could see the handwriting on the wall in in that situation.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: So which leads us to the 2002 season where Cordell's still the starter and they went back to Foxborough and uh completely got blown out.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, that was in Oakland too, the next week, and that was uh O-2.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So so as you mentioned, the the defense, and that was really the the the running theme for the two thousand two season.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the two thousand one they had the number one defense in the NFL.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and you had all these really good players, you had Kendra O'Bell was the defensive rookie of the year, you had um Casen Gildan and and Joey Porter was becoming a star.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh they the only guy they lost over the offseason was Earl Holmes, but they replaced him with James Ferrier.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that really was better.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was an upgrade, quite honestly.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: You w you wonder why the NF that like it took teams so long to figure that out, that maybe they just didn't have the personnel that you know maybe the Patriots or the Raiders had, you know, Rich Rich Gannon and Tom Brady, you know, I guess.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Although John Kitna, like I said, John Kitna is pretty mediocre.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like you said, that's really where it started, was the very end of the 2001 season.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: They were they were 13-3 that season, but one of the games they lost was at Cincinnati to a team coached by Dick Lebau, actually.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and they just shredded the defense that day, and you thought it was a kind of just a one-off thing.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like you said, the Patriots obviously Belichick's a smart coach.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: He saw what was happening there that the defense could be passed on.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was kind of the era where you know the NFL kind of seesaws between like uh, you know, running's really popular, passing's really popular, and if I remember correctly, I mean that era you had the NFL MVPs were people like Terrell Davis and Barry Sanders and Marshall Falk.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well who was the um the running back from Baltimore that was it was it Lou was that Lewis, Jamal Lewis?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was either Lewis or Priest Holmes.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean you had a lot of you had a lot of solid running back.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So Because that was the week before they beat Baltimore in that you know big rivalry playoff game.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's very true.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so and ball and who was it Dover?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was Dover the guy?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was uh Elvis Gerback.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so Baltimore was not a passing team with Elvis Gerbeck.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So again, they rolled right through Baltimore in the playoffs.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said, in the championship game, New England wanted to pass.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Brady got hurt, and then the special teams really handed New England the game.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: They special teams gave up two touchdowns in that championship game.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So heading into the 2002 season, you had a defense that was number one but had a had a weakness that was about to be exposed, like you said, in the first two games.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: You had an offense where Cordell Stewart was returning as the quarterback, and and you know, people don't remember he was actually a an MVP candidate in 2001, 3,000 yards passing, made the Pro Bowl.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's hard to believe he had 3,000 yards passing.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: He had a great season that year.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, to your point, um, you know, you thought that Patriots game you you were kind of you had lost faith in him.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I was at that point.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, okay, he had a bad game, but he's you know, he's really cemented himself as a long-term starter, and of course, um, you know, that didn't last very long.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: Lasted halfway through the next season, too.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a lot of reason for hope heading into that 2002 season because, again, number one defense, solid franchise quarterback, and then even the special teams, which had been the Achilles heel in 2001, you know, they made some changes there.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: They got a new kicker.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Chris Brown had a disastrous opening season in Heinz Field, so they replaced him with a veteran Todd Peterson.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: They fired the special teams coach, uh, replaced him with somebody new.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you really thought heading into that new season that things were going to be uh, you know, g up.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um the one thing heading into that season that nobody really thought much of was the the backup quarterback, who was who was a guy named Tommy Maddox.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they they had signed Maddox in 2001.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but he hadn't played much in 2001.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: He had uh nine nine he took through nine passes in two thousand one as a backup.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so um you just expected him to be the backup in Cordo to be the starter.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So so Steve, tell us who Tommy Maddox was and and his sort of rocky history before that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they definitely didn't sign him to uh because they needed some car insurance, um which is what he was doing before he came back into the into the league.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: He was um he so he was a starter at UCLA, and then uh he came out early and was drafted by um Dan Reeves to replace John Elway.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it never really panned out.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now Reeves was always a big, I think a big believer in Maddox, and so you know, Reeves kind of like uh put in a good word for him, and then they he got he got out of football, fouled a favor, went to the arena league, and then had his most success in the um the first uh iteration of the XFL, their one season, he was their MVP.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh actually won the uh I think yes, he was on the the LA team that won the um championship that year.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: The XFL bowl, whatever they call it that.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: The million dollar I think they got a million dollars.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Million dollar bowl.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're gonna be a big one.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: They got a million dollar game.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: So Tommy got a million dollars.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm impressed that you remembered the name of it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they each player I think got a the winning team got a million dollars.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the name.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: Vince McMahon's Burrian idea.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was after the XFL folded that the Steelers said, hey, we'll take a chance on this guy.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: But again, no one expected him to to really do anything other than be the backup in case Cordell got hurt, which Cordell really, for all his flaws, Cordell rarely got injured.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the only times that Cordell lost his job were usually to poor play and not not to injury.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the way he was going in 2001, um, you know, again, you never expected Maddox to even see the field.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was um definitely um like I I I couldn't say.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I said I definitely saw it coming, like I definitely lost faith in Cordell before that season started.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think the the week one at New England and the week two kind of confirmed my suspicions that he was not a starting quarterback, and he actually went on to play for Chicago after it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean I don't think he ever started after that, did he?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: I he play he played for Chicago, but I mean he free agent.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: You think of the guys that you know he still got another free agent deal after that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean i and and you know, he was he was definitely a dynamic quarterback.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: He it was a really interesting career because he had he had sort of flashed onto the scene in that 97 season where they made the championship game and lost to Denver and did not play well in that championship game either.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then he lost his job to Mike Tomzak the next couple seasons and Kent Graham.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then he sort of re-emerged in 2001, and then 2002, like you said, it started falling apart right from the beginning.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: But really, I think those first two games, like you mentioned earlier, um, the the big story was the defense.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the first game of the season, they're at New England.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: New England is opening their new stadium.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's on Monday Night Football, they're the defending champions, and I think a lot of Steeler fans kind of thought, okay, that was they were a Cinderella team, and and you know, now the Steelers are gonna enact their revenge.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And no and and Brady, I mean, Brady was not Brady at the time.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I there were some people even questioning whether or not Bledsoe should get the job back in 2002.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and and so they go up to New England and Brady just destroys the defense.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, okay, first game of the season, Cower always had these slow starts, and and the second game of the season was the home opener with Oakland, and that was I think the game where you really realized that there was a problem.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, at least for them.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the defense, definitely.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: 400 yards.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean Terry Kirby returned to kickoff in that game.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Jeez.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was like 101 years old at the time.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: But see I it now New England got back.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think New England made the playoffs that year.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: They did not.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: They finished nine and seven, and it was the only season where Brady was a starter that they didn't make the playoffs.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like New England was anything really special that year.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: They really didn't hit their stride to the year after that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because Oakland was the Super Bowl team from the AFC that year.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, and Rich Gannon was the eventual league MVP.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So certainly, and they had Jerry Rice at the time who was still doing pretty well.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So certainly Oakland had a good offense.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But Gannon literally came within two passes of setting the NFL record for completions in a single game because they just they ran a spread offense and they threw on almost every down, and the Steelers were just completely helpless against it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, the offense, uh, like you said, with Cordell is doing nothing.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: They were leading the league in turnovers after those first two weeks.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so th those were the first two weeks.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Week three was a bye week.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, always always fun to have your bye week in week three, but that's where we were in 2002.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, at this point, both games, the defense had given up thirty points.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you if you compare that against the previous year, the 2001 defense never gave up more than twenty-six points the whole season.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the first two games they've already given up more than thirty in both.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's pretty ugly.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Who was the uh was it was Lebau back that year?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: He might have still been in Cincinnati.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: He he was still in Cincinnati.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: The Mike Brown hadn't fired him yet.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the defense definitely is is a mess.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then week four, they're home against Cleveland, who um you know who I who who we'll get to later actually, Cleveland ends up having a good season.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, you're thinking, okay, it's the Browns, they stink.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the defense actually played okay in this game, um, but they were still down 13-6 late in the game.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um they were driving, they were in the red zone.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Cordell throws a pass into the end zone, it's intercepted.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a just a terrible interception in the end zone that's gonna put them at 0-3 and sort of ruin their season.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so then they have one more chance to mount a drive, and surprise, Cordell's on the bench, and in comes Tommy Maddox.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: Touchdown Tommy.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Touchdown Tommy leads him to the game time touchdown.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Game goes into overtime.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maddox again drives him down the field inside the ten.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they they opt this is so this is the first of many weird and and kind of wild games that season.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So in overtime.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in overtime against Cleveland, they're inside the 10.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: They opt to kick the game-winning field goal on third down, uh, you know, and and that was that's sort of a strategy you see sometimes.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, let's kick on third down in case something weird happens, so we have another chance.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they kick the field goal, it gets blocked.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it gets blocked backwards, and and it it comes right back to the kicker, Todd Peterson.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: He gets tackled right away, but because the kick went backwards, it it's still the Steelers' possession.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't change possession.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's actually still the Steelers' ball, now it's fourth down, but they have a chance to kick the field goal again from a few yards further back, and this time they make it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a really crazy finish.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember Todd Peterson like running really like it looked really funny him him running.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was it was like somebody should not like wasn't the most athletic uh looking thing ever.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, typically typically kickers do not look very good running the ball.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Which was yeah, it was pretty funny.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and uh I mean Todd Peterson got I mean he had a he had a decent career up to that point.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh but I I I don't think the year before he was all that great in Kansas City either.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean they just kind of went with a veteran, I think.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: They they yeah, they you know, so so that was that was a really interesting um thing that happened early.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So so remember, this is the second year of Heinz Field, and Chris Brown in in the first year had just had an awful season.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: He missed these um all these kicks.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: The Baltimore game that year, I think he missed four or five field goals against Baltimore.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so everybody said, Oh, there's something with Heinz Field.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's the open end of the stadium, it's the wind from the river, there's all these factors, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was there was all this uh stuff made of the conditions of Heinz Field.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So they bring in, like you said, a veteran who maybe can handle it better, and uh he did not handle it better.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: He was pretty bad.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Peterson.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the swirling.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: There is something to that, though, the swirling wind down, come down in the um because the way the wind blows, it comes over the closed end and then kind of swirls in the open end.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And plus the uh turf was way worse than it is now.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's much greatly improved.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the footing was pretty pretty rough.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot about the turf.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there were some games later on, some really memorable games, the Monday night game in 2007, I believe, against Miami, where the the ball actually stuck in the turf on a punt.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was yeah, they they finally I think after that they finally kind of got serious about the turf and it hasn't been as bad since.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: And they've added some improvements to the field, like extra box seats that have kind of eliminated some of the swirling.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's not as, I would say, difficult to kick there as it used to be.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's never something that they cite anymore as an issue, and you never see guys really miss a lot of field goals.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but back then it was it was just this almost supernatural thing where no one could kick at Heinz Field.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: But but I thought it was interesting.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you look at um one of Peterson's worst games came on the weekend of November 10th at Heinz Field of that year.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: He missed two field goals and he missed an extra point.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's when the extra points were a lot closer.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, at the two yard line.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: He had the two-yard line.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that was November 10th.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: The day before that, Temple is playing at the same stadium, Temple versus Pitt, at Heinz Field, and they had a kicker named Cap Poklemba, who nobody would ever have heard of, and I'm sure didn't play football after college.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he made five field goals in a game against Pitt that same weekend.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the same weather, the same field, the same conditions.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: He makes five field goals.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Todd Peterson misses field goals and extra points.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So who knows if it just got inside people's head?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows if it just depended on the day?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Who who's to say?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: We we do know that Todd Peterson did not make it through the season.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was replaced uh about midway through the season by Jeff Freed, who kept the job for uh the next uh eight years.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Eight years, yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so so it worked out pretty good for Jeff Reed and and whatever Heinzfield kicking was there, it never seemed to affect him all that much.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, nobody made a fifty yarder for a long time there, or it was very rare.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember Pat McAfee when he played for West Virginia made a 52 yarder.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: But that was like kind of on one of those weird November days when it was fifty degrees out.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it I mean, you know, when it gets cold and starts blowing snow down there, I mean it definitely is I think I will definitely subscribe to Hinesfield being a difficult place to kick, especially if you're a mediocre kicker.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think like you said, it can get in your head for sure.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, just trying to play the wind down there is probably uh a little bit a little bit over some guy's skill level.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So so after the Cleveland game, uh the Steelers uh decide to go with Maddox as the starting quarterback.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: They they have Cordell on the bench and the offense starts to get on a roll.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the next four or five games they do pretty well.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: They start piling up some wins.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um the defense is still flimsy, but the offense is gaining a lot of yards, scoring a lot of points.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It also really helps that the division was not very good that year.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So so this is the year that they realigned the divisions.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers were in the AFC Central um the year before that, with I believe it was six teams at the time.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then they realigned to the four-team division.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was the Steelers with the Ravens, the Bengals, and the Browns, and those three teams were not very good.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So at one point the Steelers were two and three, and they were actually in first place because the division just wasn't very good.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that that certainly helped them rebound.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: But Maddox came in and kind of rejuvenated the offense.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time uh that week ten hits, they're actually five and three.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're still in first place, and now they're starting to make some headway in the conference, and Tommy Maddox's fever has kind of taken hold at this point.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so week ten, it's a home game against the Atlanta Falcons, which which is another just crazy, crazy game.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's a probably an instant classic there, even though it's a tie.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, the game the game ended in a tie, which was unusual.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: You you've seen a few ties since then.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, back then it was really because of the rules.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: That was before the Brett Favre, before everybody you know got depressed that Brett Favre didn't go to the Super Bowl and they changed all the rules.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Which is a whole nother podcast which I could complain about.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: But they they they yeah, years later they changed the rule where everybody got one possession.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing how all those years when I remember the Steelers lost in overtime and never got to touch the ball or anything like that, nobody cared.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh, nobody cares that uh Tommy Maddox and that team didn't go to the Super Bowl, but uh Brett Favre got to change all the rules.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler alert, the seas this season actually ends in that exact scenario.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get to that later.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: But but nobody cared about that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it was okay.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh stick it to Tommy Maddox, but you know, Brett Favre.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: In the 2009 NFC Championship game, the Saints drove down the field, kicked a game-winning field goal, and Brett Favre and the Vikings never got the ball, and the NFL said, well, we can't have that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they they did, they changed the role where you you if you kick the field goal, the other team still got a possession.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they also shortened the overtime for 15 minutes to 10 minutes.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So now there's been several games where I mean you drive down the field for five minutes, you kick a field goal, the other team drives for five minutes and kicks a field goal, and the game ends in a tie.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um back then, like you said, it was sudden death 15 minutes.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the really weird thing about that game was um it was a high scoring game.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually 34 to 34.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they couldn't stop.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: They couldn't stop Vic.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: They they like I although I remember they were up, they were up by a lot, and Atlanta mounted a fairly large cover.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: They did.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: The defense the defense flew it, which was typical of that year.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and like you said, Michael Vick was in his prime, and I was never a big Michael Vick fan and and I know you weren't either we're pitch fans and we never liked him at Virginia Tech.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't you can't take away from the fact that you know in those years he was he was just unstoppable.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you'd had to account for him running.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Then if you were worried about him running he'd he'd beat you with the pass.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: He was very, very good.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um but Maddox on the other side of the ball uh was was lighting it up as well.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and so there were two records, two team records set in this game.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: One was Maddox set the team record for passing yards in a game.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was a at the time a 44-year-old record that Bobby Lane had held.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: He had 473 yards passing and then Plexico Burris set the record for receiving yards for the team with 253 and those two guys connected on three really long touchdown passes.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So just an offensive explosion and it goes in overtime and no one can score points.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well that was that was funny is they they complete a Hail Mary on the final play of overtime but Burris in true plexico fashion is one yard short.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it was literally unbelievable when I when he caught it I thought oh they won the game and then it's like you watch it it's like nope nope nope they got it right he was he was one yard short yes the hail mary he caught a hail mary at the one yard line and the game ends in a tie.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and it was the the the Steelers that was their first tie game since 1974.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people myself included had never seen the Steelers play a tie.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was just an odd thing to witness and certainly with that Hail Mary falling short at the one yard line again just a a crazy insane and like you said very classic game.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Well I think we could call this the high water mark of Tommy Maddox's career here.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's it was probably his best performance as a pro and you know his best moment you know I I I later in this we'll talk about the playoff game, but he really didn't play as well in the playoff game as I think he did in this game.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah agreed so so the next week uh they're home to Tennessee and now they're five three and one but they're still in pretty good shape.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Tennessee comes in um Tennessee had been in the division now they were they had now they were in the new South division but they were still on the Steelers schedule and Steve McNair was the quarterback for the Titans at this time and Steve McNair just completely owned the Steelers during this era.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean completely owned even after he left Tennessee and went to Baltimore he still owned the Steelers um and so he comes in and he just kills the Steelers like he always did.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then the other thing that happened this game that was significant was uh Maddox got hit and it was a really scary situation.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was laying on the field he wasn't moving they actually brought an ambulance onto the field and loaded up in an ambulance so now you're thinking well you know like you said the previous week was the high watermark at the time you're thinking that's the watermark because he might never play again.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: It looked almost like the what happened with Ryan Chase era a couple years ago.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And he he was never I mean I don't think he was ever I I may he wasn't quite the same after that.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I he still had some good games down the stretch and like I said he you know deserves some credit for that but just not quite I don't know.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean maybe just he had three games in him and that was it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe 'cause definitely there definitely is decline after that that Texan there the well the Texans game is next.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that game.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah so so that was that was even worse.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So so so Maddox shockingly he's not that injured.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's not he's he gets the feeling back in his extremities and I remember spinal concussion was the the term they used to yes okay which I guess I somehow you're you lose feeling but it comes back.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and so he was he was actually okay he did miss two games.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So back comes Cordell Stewart uh and uh he wins both games uh to his credit he comes in he he keeps the offense going and he wins both of those games which are critical because the Steelers are fighting for playoff position at this point.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: It ends up being his final two starts as a Steeler because after that season he was gone uh and and like you said went to Chicago and and played out the rest of his career uh not as a Steeler but he did win those last two games.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then Maddox came back uh for a home game against the Houston Texans which is another just insane game because the Texans that year are an expansion team with one of the worst offensive lines in in league history.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: David Carr was their quarterback and I don't have the number here but he got sacked a lot of times.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and their defense wasn't as bad.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were kind of because they had Dom Caper so they kind of built on defense not offense.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the that's how they won was just Tommy Maddox just threw a bunch of interceptions.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah Tommy Maddox turns the ball over a bunch of times and uh the Texans win in a blowout with forty seven yards of total offense.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the Texans only manage forty seven yards of offense maybe that's like a perfect example of like the between the good quarterbacks and the great quarterbacks because we've all seen great quarterbacks like Ben or Brady or you know they'll have a bad game and turn the ball over but they'll still find a way at the end to kind of just figure it out and you know maybe they don't you know maybe they three interceptions but they found three touchdowns.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so maybe that's where Tommy Mags kind of hit a ceiling was if he just you know he was good but he wasn't great.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a probably that game is probably a perfect example of of that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well and I think the turnover um problem that he had really started to come out in this game.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean i if you have a guy that throws for a bunch of yards and is a gunslinger then you're you you're just gonna expect there to be some turnovers and Ben's certainly thrown his share of interceptions in his career.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Maddox there were games where he could just be a complete turnover machine.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and unforced errors too like just dropping the ball for no reason you know from center, you know, just just weird stuff.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was pretty amazing to lose a game not only lose but get blown out when you only gave up 47 yards of offense to the other team.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the one game where the defense actually comes through they they lose 24 to six figures.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: They did rebound from that and they won their last three games of the season one of those games was a Monday night football game at Tampa Bay and Steve what do you remember about that game?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think that was the uh paper champions quote by Lee Flower.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: So so Lee Flowers who would never win a championship himself yeah so explain explain what that was.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well I think it was Warren Sapp right was saying the Steelers were done or you know some of the in Dungey was done Dungey no Dungey was not the coach.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: So the uh the uh Bucks were kind of talking some trash there and uh they hadn't won anything ever I mean they had been pretty uh you know franchise that one of those that just kind of lost in the wilderness and they decided that you know they were going to take a shot at the Steelers and uh they had fired uh Lee Flowers up and I guess the rest of the team and they went in the and that was in Tampa.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was in Tampa.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: And they went and they they uh beat them pretty handedly so and that led to the uh the Lee Flowers called them paper champions.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't won anything except for on paper and of course although the end of that season they they would win a real champion.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I was going to say that that quote backfired on Lee a couple weeks later about seven or eight weeks later when they I think Tampa Bay won the Super Bowl that year.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: In a blowout yeah in a blowout but but it sounded good at the time would Tampa have won against any other team beside the Raiders I mean they knew every play they were going to be that definitely helped playing against Gruden's old team that year.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: But but they they had that really good defense that year and um yeah so so but the Steelers beat them on a nationally televised Monday night football game.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was a it was an important game it was a late season game and the Steelers uh finished the season with a win at home over Baltimore um and they finished the year as the division champions they win the AFC North the last game of the season against Baltimore the only thing notable about that game was um that I think the Steelers had already locked their playoff position and were playing some of their practice squad guys.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: One of the guys that played in that game was James Harrison.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first time he it was his first NFL game and uh he actually wasn't even on the roster the next season.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: He was on the Baltimore roster the next season then came back to the Steelers in 2004 and then of course the rest is history with James Harrison.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But he actually played in that last game of the 2002 season.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it is amazing how they restocked their team that that following year.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah that was that was the Ben pick obviously that year af the year after that.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah they totally like I said a lot of roster turn like I mean they the four starters in the secondary totally were gone and replaced by within two two seasons, three seasons.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well and and I mean the secondary was was the the biggest problem in the season.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so they they win the division the division's pretty weak.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know they they their playoff position is they're the third seed um so they don't get a bye week or anything like that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know they're heading into the playoffs with this very leaky pass defense.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so you you were fortunate you know you you weren't playing Rich Cannon and Tom Brady every week like you were the first two weeks of the season but whenever they were they were up against good teams they still struggled.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and so the first round of the playoffs that's exactly yeah that's exactly what happened.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: Kelly Holcomb I mean isn't exactly the MVP candidate here.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah the the first the but he's a competent NFL quarterback at least that season yeah the first playoff game is against the Cleveland Browns which was pretty shocking Cleveland had just kind of squeaked into the playoffs as the last wild card.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were they were a little bit of a Cinderella story that year.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was the only time Cleveland's made the playoffs since the Belichick era in Cleveland so so really the last what 25 years that's the only time they're that's their only playoff game?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah since 94 that was the only time they made the playoffs and I almost feel bad for them.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so they squeak in and and and at this point Kelly Holcomb like you said Kelly Holcomb is their starting quarterback Tim Kalch had been the quarterback most of the season but I believe he was hurt and so they had Kelly Holcomb coming to Hinesfield it was snowing and bam the Browns go up huge.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: 24-7 they're leading in the third quarter Kelly Holcomb.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was another ta Tommy Max had some turnovers and that he threw some bad interceptions in that he did but but I mean the the Cleveland just did whatever they want on offense.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well the defense too yeah they they were passing left and right and um they had a lead I mean at least at least two touchdowns.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was 24-7 in the third quarter that was that was their biggest lead well the big turn was a punt I remember punt return by Randwell helped cut the cut the lead and then um they finally started to click on offense and stop turning it over.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right and then and then the game kind of turns into a shootout uh and the Steelers start slowly just kind of chipping their way back into the game and um you know the the there was a lot of controversy after this game with the Cleveland coaching staff right Steve?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well uh the story goes is them there the coach was Butch Davis from Miami and uh now in the pros with Cleveland and uh there his defensive coordinator was a was a coach named Foge Fasio.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Foge had been around for 30 years.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: He had coached at Pitt and then he had uh coached with Minnesota and he had been a lifelong uh defensive coordinator not not the greatest head coach in the world but a very good defensive coordinator and he the Foge passed away a couple years ago.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um but Foge was a very interesting guy you were in an interview very personality and a good guy in Foge tells it that he he wanted to keep blitzing and and and uh Butch Davis decided to play prevent.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: And if you do watch rewatch that game you can see that they start to only rush three people and that kind of gets Maddox going is where and when they were blitzing Maddox was turning it over throwing incompletions and when they stopped it seems that Maddox was able to find his rhythm.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think that was another thing was Tommy Maddox was a rhythm more in more in a rhythm.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like when he could find his rhythm in his receivers on time he was much better than when you would if you would make him stand back there and hold the ball that's when he would throw the interceptions or just be you know inefficient with the football.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that was that was kind of a mistake on Butch's Butch Davis's part and that and drafting Kellen Winslow a couple years later was probably another big mistake on Butch Davis's part.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of a lot of big mistakes in the Cleveland Browns yeah I mean some other there was some other guy available named Rothsberger he that was from Ohio that you might have wanted to take instead of him but yeah Butch Davis did not have much success in Cleveland although that season again he got them to the playoffs.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well he's the most successful outside of Belichick there.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that's well I think Cornell had a 10 and 6 season that they didn't make the playoffs.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes but I mean you're right Butch Davis is the only one since Belichick that could get them to the postseason so I guess painful to lose to the Steelers in in that fashion.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well and to to have that big of a lead and and to your point about Fog Fasio do you remember the who the offensive coordinator for Cleveland was?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Bruce Arians I do believe it was Bruce Arians who later became the offensive coordinator of the Steelers of course and the head coach of the Cardinals and Buccaneers.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Arians to your point about Fasio wanted the blitz um Arians said Butch Davis essentially fired him at halftime of that game because he just threw out the defensive game plan and he just implemented his own.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and I believe Foge I don't think he was fired.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think he he quote unquote retired after that game but but he he basically quit.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: He basically quit because he felt that the the head coach just totally overrolled his game plan and blew the game.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well I would have to agree with Foge on that one.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Although although Bru I I always say this about Bruce Arians and I think he's an excellent coordinator.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: He does get pass happy at times and there you know and maybe maybe running the ball would have helped your defense out a little bit give them some rest and you know take some time off the clock.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know you don't even if you don't score if you take four minutes off the clock, you know it's something but the Browns the Browns did keep throwing and they they scored some more points.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: They actually had a chance with to salt the game away they had a third down with about two minutes left and they threw a pass to a receiver named Dennis Northcutt who I don't know if anybody remembers Dennis Northcut.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: I remember him because on that play he was wide open because the Steelers defense again just couldn't cover anybody that was Hank Petit was covering them in the in the real I mean well I guess we'll say covering in the most relative sort of as that he was on the field at the same time.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean but now Northcut dropped the ball right and that was they were still up at that point.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: They were winning and that would have been touched as that pass.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I don't know if the Steelers had any timeouts.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the exact situation was but it it basically would have been the game.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it would have been desperation time for the Steelers instead of, you know, what they ended up doing was they drove the field.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: And once again I think once Maddox found his rhythm and was able to kind of settle in that that hurt Cleveland and when they tried to blitz again he was already in his rhythm and they couldn't they couldn't get it back.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's you can't turn it on and off on defense and you have to you have to stay they stayed they stayed aggressive but passing the ball not not blitzing.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and and like to your point about Arians maybe passing too much if Northcott catches that pass then he's a genius.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh he went for the win there.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: What a what he didn't just play it safe.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: He went for the win and and got it but plus the strength of the Steelers defense that year was stopping the run.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean between Hampton and you know all the other defensive linemen they still have Gilden they Gilden back then and yeah all those guys they had a pretty good defensive line.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean passing the ball was the weakness of the Steelers defense.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we said that formula was set in week one and two.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Actually the criticism of Arians there is a but you could see what his theory you could see what he was thinking.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was the weakness of the Steelers defense why not attack right so the Steelers come back they drive down the field they run uh from the three yard line with about thirty seconds left they run a draw play to Chris Fuomatuma a follow up well done his one his one big moment as a Steeler they they run a draw play he runs straight up the middle into the end zone.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the biggest Steelers comeback ever still to this day and um they they beat the Cleveland Browns eliminated them from the playoffs and uh just a a great memorable amazing game that you thought was over.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was at that game and I remember sitting there just thinking should I leave early?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Should I like this is this is you know disappointing.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna lose to Cleveland in a playoff game.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it didn't happen.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: The other interesting footnote about that game was that when the Steelers were were starting to come back in the third quarter and they they were had a timeout between when they scored and when they kicked off to Cleveland on the scoreboard they played this song it was Renegade from six and they they they played it over a montage of Steelers hits and things like that and the crowd got really fired up and that became sort of the anthem for the defense for the next really two decades and counting but that that really started in that game the the Renegade the playing of Renegade really started in that game.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And oddly enough it didn't really do anything magical in that game the defense really never made a big stop and Northcut dropping the pass was probably the biggest quote unquote stop that they made in the whole game.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I would say it was more on Northcut than anything the Steelers did instead.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you Dennis Northcut for creating Randall I mean in yeah I and once again glad's the Cleveland's misery I guess but yeah it was it was just a a terrible loss for the Browns but what else is new?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers move on and in the divisional round they uh head to Tennessee uh Tennessee Oakland was the number one seed that year Tennessee was the number two seed and so they head to Tennessee for a playoff game and as we said earlier Tennessee and McNair just own them at this time uh Titans instantly go up 14-0 in the first half and you just think okay well this is as far as we're gonna get you know good season good try but they're not gonna win at Tennessee but then uh Eddie George their running back has an uncharacteristic fumble the Steelers start to come back and then again like so many games that season this turns into a shootout and and it's I think the Eddie George fumble he was unconscious if I remember correctly.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's excuse Casey Hampton literally hit him in the head and knocked him out.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm not gonna I mean I'm no Eddie George fan but I'm gonna cut him a little bit of slack when you've lost conscience.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: So so so it's a play that would totally be illegal now.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's true rightfully so that's true that wouldn't have been the game I mean how many years of Eddie George's life did he go through this because of that fair point.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So so it turns into yeah but it turns into another shootout and Maddox gets going again.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Amos Zaraway was the starting running back for the Steelers in this game.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: So so one name that we haven't mentioned all s all all through going through this season is Jerome Bettis uh and and the reason why is because Bettis wasn't very good that season um it was it was actually his first season since joining the Steelers where he didn't gain a thousand yards.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: He was sort of hurt off and on and and like we said like we've been saying this whole time you know the offense was really centered around the pass anyway.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so Zaraway was kind of a a guy for the moment.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Zaraway was a um how would you describe him as Zaraway Steve?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: He was a small like slasher back.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: He would probably be like a third down back I think more than in every down back.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: I th I think the end of bet I remember there was a safety from the Vikings and I don't know if it's the year before but he hit Bettis.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I remember after that hit because it hit Bettis and he hurt his hip and Bettis was never quite the same running back after that.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: He was still effective and especially in short yardage exercise and he decided he wanted to fumble but he was very effective in his short yardage in spot duty after he really went from you know a starter in a Hall of Famer to probably just more just an afterthought not an after but like a sub a sub running back.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it really was you really could like when he hurt when he when his hip got hurt and I think it was the year before it was yeah he he he just was never that that hit that safety I can't remember the name of the safety he's memory but he he just absolutely creamed Bettison that was that was really the end of Bettison Like top level career.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And he he was more of just a role player after that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Amos Airway was good.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he he was definitely more of a slasher, but they were able to kind of, like you said, with the passing, and once you get a defense backed off, you're able to, you know, take advantage of more of a slashing type run game instead of the downhill running of Bettis where that's your key and you're trying to get the safety to draw up and then you hit them with a deep pass, whereas they were doing the opposite.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: They were passing and making the defense play back and now running the ball when the defense wasn't expecting it as much.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely that year there was definitely a shift in philosophy from the year before.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean due to injury and due to the defense not being the being as good as it was the year before.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, the Tennessee.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course, you know, the ending to that game still it's just a good thing.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so let's talk let's talk about the ending.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: Frustrating endings.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean so as typical of that season, another crazy finish to the game.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's 31-31 going into overtime.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Again, another another game where both teams scored 30 plus points.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: That the Atlanta game went in overtime is 34-34.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: The Cleveland playoff game the week before was 36-33.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is 31 all heading into overtime.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tennessee wins the coin toss, as we said previously, back then it was sudden death.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever scores first wins the game, whether it's a field goal, safety, touchdown, whatever.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Tennessee marches right down the field to get in the field goal range because the defense was the defense.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: You were probably lucky to hold him to a field goal.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they line up for the game winning field goal.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: The kicker's name is Joe Nedney.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Nedney.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what so they line up for the game winning field goal?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: What happened, Steve?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what happened was uh Cowler called a timeout.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it happened, it was like that they don't do it as much now, but you would time it and you would actually snap the ball and the guy would kick the ball.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: So he did it so Cower timed it so well that they snapped the ball, kicked the ball, but it didn't count because the timeout had already been called, and the genius in Nashville set off the fireworks because they thought they won the game.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so like you couldn't have picked a better way to ice Joe Nedney than that.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: So like Joe Nedney is completely iced, the fireworks have gone off, and you know, he's they're totally in his head at this point.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: So now they have to kick it for real.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: And the NFL on like college has a rule, you can't call two timeouts in a row.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas like college will just call three timeouts in a row, which is idiotic.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: I like the NFL rule better there.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: So this time when he kicks it, he misses it, but Dwayne Washington and all his aggressiveness decides that he is going to jump within six inches of Joe Nedney.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you watch the replay, Nedney definitely runs into him.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and maybe this is just because I'm a Steelers fan and I'm biased, but I still think to this day Nedney ran into him.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: Don't jump within six inches of Joe Nedney and give him the opportunity to take a dive.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you weren't going to block that anyway.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And the you're not supposed to get that close to the guy.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're supposed to be jumping more forward instead of at the kicker.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so when Washington lands, they run into each other, or Washington runs into Nedney, and Nedney falls down and they call roughing the kicker.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: So the Titans get a third chance to kick the field goal, and they didn't miss that one.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: That was the end of the season.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it was the most ridiculous way to end the game I've seen in a long time.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: Just the fact that, like, why would you uh why would you even give a and he definitely flopped.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: Joe Ned definitely threw himself on the ground, but I I why if you aren't there, he doesn't have the opportunity to do that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess the ultimate responsibility is on Dwayne Washington.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I agree with you 100%.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Nedney Akilee said something about he should have won an Oscar.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: There was some quote about winning an Oscar.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he he he basically admitted that he embellished.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, d of all people to speed your way around the edge and dive in front of a kick, Dwayne Washington wasn't going to be that guy.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we watched Dwayne Washington here for a lot of years, and he was not he was not the guy that was just gonna make the heroic play.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so to your point, fine, try to block it, but get in front of it.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even come anywhere, don't come within six feet of the kicker.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and of course he did, and they called roughing, and and you know, you you could argue that they couldn't have called it, but I mean he did run into the guy and he fell down.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, well he landed right if you he lands in front of them and they kinda you know, but that's where Nedney was stepping.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now so just don't be there.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's it there like you said, there's no the risk reward, there's no there's no reward.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: You all you're gonna do is get roughing the kicker.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas if you're a foot out, maybe you block the ball.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just but that's Dwayne for you.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah wherever Dwayne Washington is, I agree feels great shame about it, but or not.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: You just at that point, let him kick the the ball, he either makes it or misses it, and you you deal with it.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and like you said, the worst part about it was he missed.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you said, the fireworks go off.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: You couldn't have you couldn't have iced them any better.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because he made the first one.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: He made the first one, the fireworks go off.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, and that never works.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: It never works.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's like, oh my gosh, this is the one time it's gonna work.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna work and then Dwayne Washington bails them out.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: So just a a terrible way to end the season.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Typical, though.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh that's the first one.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're gonna beat the Raiders the next year in Oakland.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they would have they would have they would have had to go to Oakland for the AFC championship game.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, who knows what would have happened.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not good things given the way that Oakland beat them at home earlier in the season.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it would have been fun to have the chance.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was oddly, that was the second year in a row that the Steelers and Raiders barely missed each other in the championship game because the year before.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: The snow game, yeah.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, was the Tucker game.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which which would have brought Oakland to Pittsburgh for the championship game.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: So really one play on each end where they missed each other.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, so the season ends, and you know, typical that it ended that way because every game was kind of on the edge of your seat.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Every game was non-conventional.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um this was not the you know, the Steelers for decades had won games on solid defense, running the football, uh quarterback, not making mistakes, that kind of football.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for them to just be a wildly flinging passing team, you know, going into overtime with both teams over 30 points, it was definitely not their MO.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it got them, you know, within one Dwayne Washington penalty of the AFC championship game.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty, pretty fun season.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um definitely one of the more unique seasons that they've had in their you know history of being in the league.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's just it's hard to believe that they made it to the playoffs after being so bad the first two weeks of the season, which is probably a credit to Cower and his coaching staff adjusting to the talent they had.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, maybe that's why the Steelers have had more successful years than other franchises in the league, is you know, they've been able to adjust and you know, between the personnel.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what a stroke of you know, who signs an XFL guy except for the Steelers.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and they seem to they seem to find these people more than other teams.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it's it's a credit to the organization that they made it that far with the talent they had.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good point.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: They really didn't have a champion like a championship team at that point.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: They had pieces of it, but they didn't have they were probably like I said, a quarterback and a secondary short of having having the the pieces necessary.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that and that really came to fruition the following season, you know.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so so Tommy Maddox is the starter now, you know, Cordell's gone.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the next season they go six and ten.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a terrible season.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And to your point, you know, it really wasn't a c really the problem started at the end of that 2001 season, and then 2002 they just kind of kept it going with that electric offense.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and Tommy Maddox was such a great story, and everybody talked about working at the insurance company and how he was a a first-round bust and he had turned everything around.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: He you know, a lot of people wanted to sort of put him in the same tier as Kurt Warner, who um who by that point had won two league MVPs and won a Super Bowl.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't quite Kurt Warner.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, he was not Kurt Warner by any means.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and so the next season Maddox sort of comes back to earth.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers stink.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's their 2003 was actually their only losing season of the century thus far.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um and then in 2004, uh the second game of the season, uh Maddox gets hurt in Baltimore, and the rookie Ben Rothesperger comes into the game and then bec becomes the starter for the next sixteen plus seasons.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well Maddox still hung on for for a while.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I think the really what did him in was there was a game against Jacksonville, the the 2005 when when they won the Super Bowl, and he just was a mess.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: He he I remember fumbling the ball and I think people jumped trash on his yard.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was the yes.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: So 2005.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that that's not I mean everybody, you know, if he had a bad day, I can't imagine having a bad day at work just randomly and like coming home and there's like garbage all over your lawn because you know that would be a rough way to go.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tommy sort of had it.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so he goes from being this great story, everybody loves him, you know, to being replaced by Rothisberger, but he's still the backup.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so in 2005, Ben gets hurt in in a game in San Diego.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: They play at home against Jacksonville, and the game goes into overtime.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maddox fumbles, um, but they they they get the ball back, and then Maddox throws a pick six, which obviously ends the game right then and there.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that was that was that was pretty much the end of his NFL.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't think he didn't play for another team at the end.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: He retired.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: He retired.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it was his last uh that was his last season.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: He got a Super Bowl ring at the end of it, so that was nice.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you still read articles.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: I've read I read some articles researching this podcast.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: He's still very appreciative.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: I I found it nice that like you thought maybe a guy would be a little bitter after the way it ended, and he didn't get to maybe bring a championship in the way he wanted to.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: But he was very appreciative of his time in Pittsburgh and with the Steelers and with the organization in general.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I think that's kudos to him for um being so um you know classy and gracious about it.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you how do you think the fans remember him?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think they remember the 2002 lots of passing records, or do you think they remember the the pick six in overtime, or you think maybe it's a mixed bag?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's a that's a good question.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I I don't know if I can you know, I I think Steeler fans remember the bad more than the good sometimes, or maybe that's just people in general.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_03: They they look at the half empty as like especially because he never won a Super Bowl here.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you win a Super Bowl in Pittsburgh, you become like this legend and everybody forgets about, you know, all the interceptions or you know, failures you've had.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean Bill Cower was, you know, widely criticized for you know, he talks about getting his gas in the middle of the night, you know, after he lost the game, you know.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it there's a lot of guys that went through that.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just I think I think most people probably reflect on him negatively, I think, uh Steeler fans, which is a shame because he had such a great year that they we wouldn't have made the playoffs.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know who the other quarterback, T.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: Martin, was T.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: Martin or quarterback.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: They had signed Charlie Beck in in that um offseason.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: So Charlie Batch was actually the third stringer.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you remember, Charlie Batch wasn't the Wiley veteran at the time, he was the guy that had flamed out in Detroit.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: So they didn't have T Martin.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, they drafted T.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: Martin over Brady.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they drafted T.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Martin the in 2000 over Tom Brady famously.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant pick there.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um and then when they signed Batch, they actually that's when they cut T Martin.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so they I mean, do you think I mean maybe Charlie Charlie Batch maybe.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I I don't think they're I don't think he would have caught on fire.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Charlie Batch was the Charlie Batch was good at coming in and holding down the fort when somebody was hurt.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was his kind of specialty.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he would have done well as a as a 14-game starter.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: He's a they call him check down Charlie for a reason, yeah.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, it wasn't like Cordell got hurt, it was that Cordell got benched.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if if Cordell gets benched in that Cleveland game and Batch comes in, or even if Maddox comes in and doesn't do anything, Cordell's the starter the rest of the season.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was only because Maddox came into that Cleveland game, drove them down the field to tie the game, and then drove them down the field to win the game in overtime.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: If he doesn't do any of that, then then Cordell probably starts the rest of the season, and the Steelers probably don't make the playoffs.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they certainly don't have all these memorable games that they had.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, they don't have the Cleveland uh comeback in the playoffs, they don't have the the the Tennessee playoff game with the overtime, they don't have the the Michael Vick tie game, they don't have the the Houston 47 yards of offense game.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean definitely a a a fun, crazy, entertaining season, thanks, like you said, in large part to Tommy Maddox being the quarterback.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I hope people remember him fondly.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: I I I always I mean he's not like he never came off as like a jerk or anything.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: He always came off as like a very classy person and you know he handled it well.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, every quarterback goes through getting benched in adversity, and um you know you gotta give him credit for handling it well.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the legend of Tommy Maddox and the 2002 Steelers.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Any any la final thoughts, Steve, as we wrap up?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hope Tommy Maddox's happy whatever whatever he's doing right now.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's listening to this.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I think I think I think he's in uh I think I read he's a high school coach somewhere in Texas.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think a high school football coach somewhere.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure he's having fun doing that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean and if you think about it, I mean he he his legacy was gonna be just a first round bust who who went and sold insurance.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean he that was gonna be the his story.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's nice that he at least had a lot of people.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think he is from Texas I originally before, even though he went to UCLA.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think he is from the city.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he always talked with a little bit of that twin.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, it was it was a nice story, like you said.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think I hope people remember him fondly too, because that season, even though it ended, you know, without any kind of a championship or anything like that, was definitely a memorable season.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right, folks, thank you so much for listening to our podcast.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh please follow us on social media on Facebook or Twitter.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Please uh leave a comment uh or a uh review on the podcast, uh preferably a positive one.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: That uh that helps other people find the podcast.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, uh, if you feel so inclined, please tell people about our little show.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way also to uh to get the word out.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everybody, and we will catch you next time.