Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Evan Cohen on the Divisional Round games of the NFL Playoffs, Controversial officiating, CFP National Championship tonight + more

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Evan Cohen on the Divisional Round games of the NFL Playoffs, Controversial officiating, CFP National Championship tonight + more · The Sean O'Connell Show

0:01
Speaker 1: It's a Sean O'Connell show.
0:07
Speaker 2: You were home of the best inside of your huts.
0:09
Speaker 3: Let's get back to WOC from the murderch Chevrolet Studio
0:13
Speaker 3: of ESPN seven hundred and ninety two to one a m.
0:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to our number two on the Sewan O'Connell show.
0:22
Speaker 2: Welcome in Evan Cohen, host.
0:24
Speaker 1: Of ESPN Radio's Unsportsmanlike. He's alongside Chris Canty and Michelle
0:30
Speaker 1: Smallman every morning. That's early early here in the Mountain
0:33
Speaker 1: time zone. Four am. He's he's on at six on
0:37
Speaker 1: the East Coach. Was still early enough for me. But
0:39
Speaker 1: he's a hard working man and he's kind enough to
0:42
Speaker 1: give us a few moments today on Salt Lake City Radio.
0:46
Speaker 2: Evan welcome, How are you, sir, Shawn?
0:49
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
0:51
Speaker 1: So we started the show today gushing about an incredible
0:55
Speaker 1: divisional weekend in the NFL playoffs and the controversy about
1:00
Speaker 1: a couple of catches that one was ruled an interception,
1:03
Speaker 1: one was ruled a catch and down by Devonte Adams,
1:07
Speaker 1: and everyone took to social media and did their screen
1:10
Speaker 1: grabs and did their dissections, and all of us become
1:13
Speaker 1: professional rules analysts in these moments, and I'm here for that,
1:18
Speaker 1: even I like the drama surrounding some of that. Where
1:21
Speaker 1: did you net out on the Broncos interception and the
1:25
Speaker 1: Rams completion in the fourth quarter where there are those
1:28
Speaker 1: the same play adjudicated differently? Are they different enough that
1:33
Speaker 1: you have to look at them differently? How did you
1:35
Speaker 1: handle those situations?
1:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the main one for us this morning was
1:40
Speaker 3: the Bills one and the Bill's Broncos one, simply because
1:44
Speaker 3: of the fact that we deemed that moment in those
1:47
Speaker 3: in that game to be the biggest story. And you know,
1:52
Speaker 3: sometimes we get it right, which is I guess say
1:54
Speaker 3: was one of those days we got it right because
1:56
Speaker 3: of the fact of the McDermott firing. I think the
1:59
Speaker 3: rest the right calls, and I know that may seem
2:02
Speaker 3: contradictory that I'm gonna say that, But the one that
2:04
Speaker 3: I'm focusing on specifically is that Buffalo Denver one because
2:09
Speaker 3: I do believe that that was an interception, and I
2:12
Speaker 3: also can't shunk get out of my head the whole
2:14
Speaker 3: idea that we are making such a big deal about
2:18
Speaker 3: those plays late, specifically in the Denver Buffalo game, and
2:21
Speaker 3: not as much about all of the other plays leading
2:24
Speaker 3: up to that. And I know that that is a
2:25
Speaker 3: cop out answer, and I understand that people look at
2:27
Speaker 3: those plays, both of them in the LA one in
2:30
Speaker 3: Chicago and the Denver Buffalo, say well, what's the difference
2:32
Speaker 3: between the two? The difference between the two is one
2:35
Speaker 3: team has this hall of fame quarterback who has never
2:39
Speaker 3: gotten it done in terms of winning at all. And
2:43
Speaker 3: that's the difference. And I understand that that's not an
2:45
Speaker 3: x's and o's referees type of answer. But when Brandoncu's
2:50
Speaker 3: going to the ground and Denver comes up with the
2:52
Speaker 3: ball and yet again it's another Josh Allen unfortunate mistake,
2:57
Speaker 3: that's where my mind goes. And yes, I think they
2:59
Speaker 3: got it right.
3:01
Speaker 1: Was the play call of mistake taking a shot there
3:04
Speaker 1: when you just need to march down the field and
3:06
Speaker 1: get a field goal? I mean, you've already gotten that
3:08
Speaker 1: first possession out of the way. If you can just
3:10
Speaker 1: methodically find a way to get down there and score kick.
3:14
Speaker 1: A field goal doesn't have to be sexy, doesn't have
3:16
Speaker 1: to be Josh Allen heroics.
3:18
Speaker 2: You just got a march. Was it the right call
3:21
Speaker 2: to time to take a bit of a shot.
3:23
Speaker 3: It's a great point by you because people are not
3:26
Speaker 3: playing the opposite part of this, like, for example, on
3:29
Speaker 3: the tradavious white pass interference that moment, let's just say
3:34
Speaker 3: they don't. I'll answer you a question in a second,
3:36
Speaker 3: but it goes to your question the tredimous white pass
3:38
Speaker 3: interference that was called for on Buffalo. People realize that
3:43
Speaker 3: if that's not called, it's still third and twelve from
3:47
Speaker 3: I believe the thirty eight yard line, which would be
3:50
Speaker 3: in field goal range, and if you run the ball,
3:53
Speaker 3: it's better version of field goal range. So in the
3:56
Speaker 3: scenario that you were referring to, I totally think that
4:00
Speaker 3: that's such an interesting part of this. It's the play
4:03
Speaker 3: before aspect of it. It's hitting singles, but you don't
4:06
Speaker 3: have to hit a home run. You know that part
4:08
Speaker 3: of this. So, yes, the play call could be argued.
4:12
Speaker 3: Now I must answer a question with a question, is
4:15
Speaker 3: there ever a bad play call with Josh Allen as
4:17
Speaker 3: your quarterback? And if you're answering yes, that's a bigger conversation.
4:21
Speaker 1: Well, well, I guess when he's had a rough day, Yeah,
4:25
Speaker 1: that you could have some bad play calls when he's
4:28
Speaker 1: your quarterback, right because I mean, he's so good at
4:32
Speaker 1: all of the things, you don't have to have him
4:35
Speaker 1: do a thing that maybe is not dialed in for
4:38
Speaker 1: that particular day. You can have him throw the high
4:41
Speaker 1: percentage ball. You could have him keep it in his
4:43
Speaker 1: hands and run. Although I don't know the injuries in
4:46
Speaker 1: this divisional round. What an insane thing that we'll get
4:49
Speaker 1: to here in a second. So, I mean, if we
4:52
Speaker 1: could just keep exchanging questions for questions, is it a
4:55
Speaker 1: bad play call when he's having a bad day? Or
4:57
Speaker 1: do you have to treat him like he's not having
4:58
Speaker 1: a bad day because you you expect him to just
5:01
Speaker 1: be able to compartmentalize every down.
5:05
Speaker 3: So I like this bit, Oh we're gonna do every
5:08
Speaker 3: let's let's be questions we can ask each other in
5:10
Speaker 3: a row. Here we go because all of this makes sense, Sean,
5:14
Speaker 3: what you and I are doing actually makes sense in
5:15
Speaker 3: my mind. Here we go. Ready, did did Tom Brady?
5:19
Speaker 3: Did Bill Belichick ever tell Tom Brady you're not allowed
5:22
Speaker 3: to do blank? I don't know what the blank is,
5:27
Speaker 3: but if there's anything that Bill Belichick told him he's
5:29
Speaker 3: not allowed to do? Was there anything that Andy Reid
5:32
Speaker 3: told Mahomes he was not allowed to do. And the
5:35
Speaker 3: reason I answer your question with a question off of
5:37
Speaker 3: my question with another question and a lot of questions,
5:39
Speaker 3: is because did we just actually pinpoint why Sean McDermott
5:43
Speaker 3: got fired? Like Sean in that spot, even though it's
5:48
Speaker 3: Josh Allen hit singles not triples in home runs. Tell
5:52
Speaker 3: Josh Allen we're playing for a field goal. Everything's safe.
5:56
Speaker 3: Every drive ends up with a kick. I don't care
5:59
Speaker 3: about a touchdown. I care about three before I care
6:01
Speaker 3: about six flash seven In that regard, is that actually
6:04
Speaker 3: why Sean McDermott just got fired? Did we pinpoint you?
6:08
Speaker 3: To your credit? Did you pinpoint why? Because Josh Allen
6:11
Speaker 3: has a green light at all times and even the
6:14
Speaker 3: greats need a yellow light at times.
6:18
Speaker 2: I agree wholeheartedly with that.
6:20
Speaker 1: And when you talk about a coach being fired as
6:24
Speaker 1: the result of a situation like this, here's another question.
6:27
Speaker 2: Obviously, do you ever find yourself?
6:30
Speaker 1: Do you ever find yourself as a coach hamstrung by
6:34
Speaker 1: the idea that your players can make you right, that well,
6:38
Speaker 1: this guy's so good. I don't have to have the
6:41
Speaker 1: best version of myself. I don't have to have the
6:43
Speaker 1: best play call. I don't have to have the best whatever,
6:46
Speaker 1: because I get to be a little bit lazy here.
6:49
Speaker 1: I get to be a little bit reckless here when
6:52
Speaker 1: people who don't have Josh Allen can't. Right, even if
6:56
Speaker 1: you only have Jordan Love, you probably have to be
6:59
Speaker 1: a little bit more care And is that why McDermott
7:02
Speaker 1: finds himself on the unemployment line, Although I think it'll
7:05
Speaker 1: be very briefly because he's he's making more reckless decisions
7:11
Speaker 1: because he's got that guy.
7:15
Speaker 3: I think it's a very very interesting question, right. In
7:19
Speaker 3: other words, don't act like Josh Allen is your quarterback
7:22
Speaker 3: in that spot, Act like his backup, Mitch Trubisky is
7:25
Speaker 3: the quarterback, because what would you do with Mitch Trubisky
7:28
Speaker 3: in that spot? What you would do is ensure yourself
7:31
Speaker 3: and guarantee yourself a field goal opportunity, because even if
7:35
Speaker 3: you think that play is a fifty to fifty scenario,
7:39
Speaker 3: on that interception, you still put yourself in a position
7:42
Speaker 3: where it may not be your ball, and in that case,
7:45
Speaker 3: it was not your ball, right, And I think there
7:47
Speaker 3: is something to that. What you are saying is even
7:50
Speaker 3: with Josh Allen at times you have to be conservative
7:54
Speaker 3: and that don't allow the greatness of the quarterback to
7:57
Speaker 3: allow you to take risks that you shouldn't be taking.
8:01
Speaker 1: Well, I'm now asking the question if he will ever
8:04
Speaker 1: win a super Bowl, if Josh Allen's ever going to
8:06
Speaker 1: win a Super Bowl?
8:07
Speaker 2: And I know that there are a lot.
8:08
Speaker 1: Of people who are just like, of course, look at
8:10
Speaker 1: look what he's got, look at what you know his
8:13
Speaker 1: individual talents can do, and the Bills will hire the
8:15
Speaker 1: right guy to maximize him. And if you know, if
8:19
Speaker 1: McDermott in this case was not the right guy, then
8:22
Speaker 1: they'll find the NFL equivalent of Steve Kerr, who just
8:25
Speaker 1: takes that next step with an already talented team. I'm
8:29
Speaker 1: not one to guarantee those things. I'm not one to
8:32
Speaker 1: think that that stuff is what you can take for granted.
8:35
Speaker 1: And it's not getting easier in today's NFL to extend
8:39
Speaker 1: your great run years and years and years. Is Josh
8:42
Speaker 1: Allen approaching a point in his career he's at He's
8:45
Speaker 1: at risk of just being a Matt Ryan, of being
8:48
Speaker 1: a Philip Rivers, of being a guy who's considered one
8:51
Speaker 1: of the greats of his era, but one that never
8:54
Speaker 1: ultimately gets it done.
8:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting question. And I'm thinking about this.
9:00
Speaker 3: I'm talking to you and thinking about the amazing stability
9:04
Speaker 3: that your state has had in terms of coaches, right,
9:08
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're thinking about I'm just thinking Jerry's phone,
9:11
Speaker 3: Quinn Snyder and obviously now Will Hardy's not going anywhere.
9:14
Speaker 3: The handoff from from Urban to Winningham. Maybe that's a
9:18
Speaker 3: touchy subject today.
9:19
Speaker 2: But you got the overall sure, I don't.
9:23
Speaker 3: And McDermott was there for nine years, right, that's a long, long,
9:26
Speaker 3: long period of time in the NFL. And I will
9:29
Speaker 3: tell you that the next hire to me should not
9:32
Speaker 3: be about longevity. It should just be about what you
9:35
Speaker 3: just said. Who gives Josh Allen the best chance of
9:39
Speaker 3: winning a Super Bowl yesterday? Like I think if you
9:43
Speaker 3: look around the league right now, Raiders, Cardinals, Brown's, Dolphins,
9:50
Speaker 3: just the name of Titans just to name a few, right,
9:53
Speaker 3: those teams have to find a coach that is going
9:56
Speaker 3: to be with them for five years like that, you
9:59
Speaker 3: have to find stability. I don't think the Bills have
10:02
Speaker 3: to find a coach that's going to be with them
10:03
Speaker 3: for five years. I think the Bills have to find
10:05
Speaker 3: a coach that, if the wins a super Bowl with
10:08
Speaker 3: Josh Allen, could retire the next day. And you don't
10:10
Speaker 3: care like that's how immediate this is and your focal
10:14
Speaker 3: point is dead on. This cannot be about forever. This
10:18
Speaker 3: has to be about Holy bleep. Could Josh Allen actually
10:22
Speaker 3: go his entire career without winning a Super Bowl? There
10:25
Speaker 3: are the two guys you mentioned. I understand that it's
10:27
Speaker 3: just a comparison Ryan and Rivers. I think Josh Allen
10:30
Speaker 3: is significantly better than both of them already in my mind,
10:33
Speaker 3: but the end result may get you to the same place.
10:37
Speaker 3: I just think they need to do everything in their
10:39
Speaker 3: power to ensure themselves as much of a guarantee as
10:44
Speaker 3: possible at that head coaching position.
10:46
Speaker 2: There's a lot of candidates out there.
10:48
Speaker 1: Is there one that comes to mind that can achieve
10:50
Speaker 1: that for the Buffalo Bills? If you're the GM, if
10:53
Speaker 1: you're the team president, if you're the owner, is there
10:56
Speaker 1: a phone call you're ready to make because you want
10:59
Speaker 1: to get Josh Allen set up for success yesterday?
11:03
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I know people are gonna laugh at me,
11:05
Speaker 3: but I think Belichick's the best coach of all time.
11:08
Speaker 3: I don't care about the last year or two in
11:09
Speaker 3: New England. I don't care about North Carolina. I don't
11:11
Speaker 3: think that has anything to do with what he could
11:13
Speaker 3: do upon arrival in Buffalo. I really don't like. I
11:16
Speaker 3: just think, give him that quarterback and give him cold
11:19
Speaker 3: weather and give him the anger towards New England. That's
11:22
Speaker 3: just me. I understand ninety nine point nine percent of
11:25
Speaker 3: the people listening in Utah right now, seven hundred they're
11:28
Speaker 3: probably saying this guy's an idiot. I get that. So
11:31
Speaker 3: then go to the next version of that. And to me,
11:33
Speaker 3: that's Mike Tomlin, who you would have to trade for.
11:37
Speaker 3: Does not look like he's going to coach this year
11:39
Speaker 3: and was college teammates with Sean McDermott, so maybe he
11:41
Speaker 3: doesn't want to do that. So keep going down that line.
11:45
Speaker 3: Mike McCarthy. I understand people are gonna say, well, aren't
11:49
Speaker 3: these guys known for falling short, like Tomlin and McCarthy. Well,
11:52
Speaker 3: they also are known for falling short because they won
11:55
Speaker 3: it all when they had Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Get
11:58
Speaker 3: a guy who knows what to do with the Hall
12:00
Speaker 3: of Fame quarterback and he's done something with the Hall
12:02
Speaker 3: of Fame quarterback. So those are just a couple of
12:04
Speaker 3: names that I would look at. I would be like
12:07
Speaker 3: Brian Dave all may end up being the head coach there,
12:09
Speaker 3: and maybe he'll be great second time coach, He's not guarantee,
12:13
Speaker 3: even though he has a relationship with Josh Allen from
12:15
Speaker 3: his time coaching him as the OC there. I just
12:17
Speaker 3: would be really nervous if it were me to hire
12:20
Speaker 3: a first time coach that was a complete unknown when
12:24
Speaker 3: it comes to coaching. Josh Allen.
12:26
Speaker 2: Evan Cohen is our guest here on the Sean O'Connell Show.
12:29
Speaker 1: You can hear him every morning on ESPN seven hundred
12:32
Speaker 1: at four am on ESPN Radios Unsportsmanlike with Michelle Smallman
12:37
Speaker 1: and Chris Canty. All Right, let's talk about another young quarterback.
12:41
Speaker 1: He's not nearly as established as Josh Allen. I think
12:44
Speaker 1: he's every bit as talented. We learned a lot about
12:48
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams when Utah was a member of the Pac
12:50
Speaker 1: twelve conference, and they had some great battles with him
12:53
Speaker 1: as the Trojans quarterback. And I think people, you know,
12:56
Speaker 1: nobody here loves the guy, but everyone acknowledges that, Oh
12:59
Speaker 1: my goodness, he does things that very few people can do.
13:02
Speaker 2: And you're old enough. You're you're around my age.
13:05
Speaker 1: You're old enough to have played super Techmobile or Tech
13:08
Speaker 1: Mobile where you take the snap with your quarterback and
13:10
Speaker 1: you run back straight thirty yards twenty five yards and
13:13
Speaker 1: then you vomit to your favorite wide receiver for a touchdown.
13:16
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna work in the NFL.
13:19
Speaker 1: I didn't think that real life football players were allowed
13:21
Speaker 1: to do things like that, and Caleb Williams proved me
13:24
Speaker 1: wrong in a divisional round with the game on the line,
13:27
Speaker 1: no less.
13:29
Speaker 3: In the irony of ironies, I literally played a video
13:33
Speaker 3: game of I played Madden with my son for about
13:37
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes before I had to take him somewhere about
13:40
Speaker 3: an hour ago, and I swear to you I had
13:42
Speaker 3: a play where I was I was running backwards like
13:46
Speaker 3: Caleb and couldn't even complete the passing video games. So
13:49
Speaker 3: that was unbelievable, and that, to me, will go down
13:53
Speaker 3: the past Kokman in the end zone will go down
13:55
Speaker 3: as one of the greatest plays that meant nothing ultimately
14:00
Speaker 3: in the history of sports. Seriously, I grew up in
14:03
Speaker 3: New York I'm a lifelong New York Mets fan. There
14:06
Speaker 3: was a play in the two thousand and six NLCS
14:09
Speaker 3: against the Saint Louis Cardinals where Ndy Javz e n
14:13
Speaker 3: d Y Chavez, an outfielder that no one right now
14:17
Speaker 3: listening knows who this is, but he had a catch.
14:19
Speaker 3: People could look it up two thousand and six Indie
14:21
Speaker 3: javas one of the greatest catches in a game you'll
14:24
Speaker 3: ever see in your life. And I thought, oh my god,
14:26
Speaker 3: the Mets are going to do this, They're gonna get
14:27
Speaker 3: back to the World Series finally. And you know what,
14:30
Speaker 3: they didn't even win that game, and so it ultimately
14:33
Speaker 3: mattered not at all. And Caleb's greatness. By the way,
14:37
Speaker 3: this probably moments if I said, boy, I'm talking to
14:40
Speaker 3: the right guy in the right fan base, how many
14:42
Speaker 3: moments from Bulls Jazz Finals do you probably look back
14:47
Speaker 3: upon and people in Utah look back upon and say,
14:49
Speaker 3: that was an unreal moment. But then Michael happened, So
14:52
Speaker 3: then who cares, like it doesn't really matter that that
14:54
Speaker 3: happened that way? Right. It's one of those kind of things.
14:56
Speaker 3: I mean, it was one of the great moments, one
14:58
Speaker 3: of the great throws you'll ever see in your life,
15:00
Speaker 3: but then obviously throws the interception in overtime and they
15:02
Speaker 3: lose the game. They're way ahead of schedule, And I
15:04
Speaker 3: think that entire argument about was could Caleb be a bust?
15:07
Speaker 3: Was he not the right pick? You know what the
15:09
Speaker 3: right pick was for that draft? The Bears were right
15:12
Speaker 3: with Caleb, The Commanders are right with Jayden Daniels, and
15:15
Speaker 3: the Patriots are right with Drake May. It's unbelievable. All
15:18
Speaker 3: three of them were right answers that year.
15:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, rare win when win. Now the interception, the ensuing
15:24
Speaker 1: interception after that unbelievable individual play, that was bad. And
15:29
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me to see how many people are
15:32
Speaker 1: ready to dump that on Dj Moore and say, look
15:34
Speaker 1: at the lack of effort here. And the people doing
15:37
Speaker 1: so are all NFL quarterbacks. You know a lot more
15:40
Speaker 1: about route concepts and how to defeat that particular looking
15:42
Speaker 1: coverage than I ever will. So if we say, all right,
15:46
Speaker 1: that's not Caleb's fault. He threw the ball twenty two
15:49
Speaker 1: yards on the hash where that ball is supposed to
15:51
Speaker 1: go because of the coverage, and we just take everyone
15:55
Speaker 1: at their word and we say, all right, that's the
15:57
Speaker 1: wide receiver's fault.
15:59
Speaker 2: How do you handle that wide receiver moving forward?
16:01
Speaker 1: Because if it were the quarterback equivalent of, well, this
16:05
Speaker 1: guy threw the game away with this bone headed decision,
16:09
Speaker 1: you got fifty million bucks a year dumped into the quarterback,
16:12
Speaker 1: So you're just gonna live with that pain. I don't
16:14
Speaker 1: know if you have to do the same thing with
16:16
Speaker 1: wide receivers, especially if it's an effort thing. So how
16:20
Speaker 1: do you handle a receiver or any player outside of
16:22
Speaker 1: the quarterback position who is responsible for a moment like that.
16:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question because on our show this
16:29
Speaker 3: morning and on Sports withlike Chris Canty will play defensive line,
16:33
Speaker 3: but is the smartest football guy you'll ever hear and
16:36
Speaker 3: talk to in your life. Did really take the task
16:38
Speaker 3: DJ Moore in that spot. And I think that what
16:41
Speaker 3: we've seen about from Ben Johnson, the head coach of
16:44
Speaker 3: the Bears, is clearly he's not afraid to go after guys.
16:47
Speaker 3: And I do think that the Bears specifically need more
16:51
Speaker 3: out of those wide receivers moving forward. Roma Dunda was
16:54
Speaker 3: kind of up and down the receiver from Washington this year,
16:56
Speaker 3: and Dj Moore I mean, I don't know, the Dj
16:58
Speaker 3: Moore look like a can't miss number one receiver like
17:01
Speaker 3: they're paying him to be. I think that the guy
17:03
Speaker 3: looked really good for them with Luther Burden, the second
17:06
Speaker 3: round pick out of Missouri. But I think I think
17:08
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff can't happen anymore if you're if
17:11
Speaker 3: you're the Bears, like and maybe DJ Moore becomes that guy.
17:16
Speaker 3: They're not gonna get rid of him because of it.
17:18
Speaker 3: But it's he potentially that guy where if they look
17:20
Speaker 3: at the other two would say, this is an expendable
17:22
Speaker 3: piece and we're gonna have moments like that where we're
17:25
Speaker 3: gonna wonder what's going on there, like how do how
17:27
Speaker 3: does that moment happen? You know? And so I think
17:30
Speaker 3: that they have to deal with it, and that's gonna
17:32
Speaker 3: be an interesting thing because Ben Johnson is gonna put
17:34
Speaker 3: a lot of the target on him because he is outspoken.
17:37
Speaker 3: As we know, he had a lot to say. I
17:40
Speaker 3: had a lot to say about the Green Bay Packers.
17:44
Speaker 3: But at some point if your team and it's gonna
17:46
Speaker 3: come back and bite him. It always does. But if
17:49
Speaker 3: you the only way it comes back to bite you
17:51
Speaker 3: is if you're relevant enough for us to remember some
17:54
Speaker 3: of your your different type moments, and they are obviously
17:58
Speaker 3: going to be relevant enough because of him. And I
18:01
Speaker 3: think that Dj Moore at what fifty plus catches this year,
18:03
Speaker 3: if that's seventeen games played for Chicago, that's not impressive.
18:07
Speaker 3: So yeah, I better hear from Ben Johnson on his own. Guys,
18:10
Speaker 3: if you're gonna have so much to say, I think
18:13
Speaker 3: you're right, Schron You've got to go after Dj Moore
18:14
Speaker 3: in that spot as well.
18:16
Speaker 1: Can the Broncos win without bow Knicks leading the charge?
18:21
Speaker 1: Can Jared Stidham win him an AFC Championship game?
18:25
Speaker 3: He can? But I also think by me saying that,
18:29
Speaker 3: it downplays how good bow Knicks has been. And I
18:32
Speaker 3: think one of the most untold stories. You and I
18:35
Speaker 3: just went through those top three guys in the draft,
18:37
Speaker 3: but twenty four draft with Caleb Jaden and Drake may
18:43
Speaker 3: and I did not bring up shame on me bow Knicks,
18:45
Speaker 3: who was in the same draft. He has played in
18:48
Speaker 3: every game, if I'm not mistaken, in the regular season,
18:51
Speaker 3: right close to it. If had all the games in
18:52
Speaker 3: the regular season over the last two years, he's been
18:54
Speaker 3: in the playoffs both years he took his team to
18:57
Speaker 3: the AFC Championship Game this year. He played arguably Josh
19:01
Speaker 3: Allen in terms of big moments, lack of turnovers, etc.
19:04
Speaker 3: Did have the one which Josh Allen did a terrible
19:06
Speaker 3: job throwing another one right back to them and got
19:09
Speaker 3: his team to the AFC Championship Game, only to get
19:12
Speaker 3: hurt the second last play in overtime, which nobody on
19:15
Speaker 3: field I think saw in the moments. I think Stidham
19:18
Speaker 3: could do it, just because I don't think you can
19:21
Speaker 3: right off this Denver Broncos team with how well they've played,
19:24
Speaker 3: specifically defensively, and how well coached they are. I will
19:28
Speaker 3: tell you one of the most interesting parts of this
19:30
Speaker 3: game this weekend is how well the PA how much
19:34
Speaker 3: the Patriots are familiar with Sidham. Remember he was a
19:38
Speaker 3: draft pick by them years ago, fourth round pick out
19:40
Speaker 3: of Auburn slash Baylor. His offensive coordinator when he got
19:43
Speaker 3: into the league was Josh McDaniels. He then goes after
19:47
Speaker 3: that ends up on the Raiders, where his head coach
19:51
Speaker 3: was Josh McDaniels. This offseason when he was a free
19:55
Speaker 3: agent and the Patriots traded Joe Milton to the Cowboys
19:58
Speaker 3: their backup quarterback. They look for a backup quarterback. It
20:01
Speaker 3: was down to two guys. The guy they have on
20:04
Speaker 3: their team, Josh Dobbs and Jarrett Stidham. Why Stidham? Who's
20:08
Speaker 3: the offensive coordinator of New England Josh McDaniels. So to
20:11
Speaker 3: say that New England knows him would be an understatement,
20:15
Speaker 3: But to be fair, he probably knows a little bit
20:18
Speaker 3: about New England as well. Different head coach obviously with Rabel,
20:21
Speaker 3: but I'm sure he's familiar a little bit with that style.
20:23
Speaker 3: But sure. I mean, I think that at this time
20:26
Speaker 3: of year, you can't rule out anything. Do I think
20:28
Speaker 3: the NFL and fans across the border in love with
20:31
Speaker 3: the idea of a Jarrett Stidham Sam Darnold Super Bowl?
20:35
Speaker 3: Maybe not, but we maybe look at that. Well.
20:38
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna ask you Rams or
20:40
Speaker 1: Seahawks who emerges after my San Francisco forty nine ers
20:43
Speaker 1: laid the most embarrassing of eggs in that game against Seattle.
20:48
Speaker 1: The Seahawks look great, the Rams found a way. Who
20:52
Speaker 1: wins the NFC?
20:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm probably gonna go with the Rams just because
20:59
Speaker 3: of the coach. Quarterback combo, been there, done that. That's
21:01
Speaker 3: a dumb reason, right that they've been in this moment before.
21:04
Speaker 3: But I've been saying all year my theme with the
21:06
Speaker 3: Rams because I'm with you. I love the Niners in
21:08
Speaker 3: terms of the way in which that they were operating
21:10
Speaker 3: this year, I thought they were just great that I
21:14
Speaker 3: look at that team, and I've been saying all year
21:17
Speaker 3: the Rams have been hiding in playing site. It's like
21:20
Speaker 3: we forget how good they've been in the last few years.
21:23
Speaker 3: We don't talk about them throughout the season as probably
21:25
Speaker 3: much as we should. Big market team, we know, but
21:28
Speaker 3: obviously in that market it's more Lakers and Dodgers centric
21:32
Speaker 3: USC But I think the Rams are hiding in playing site.
21:36
Speaker 3: So I mean, I think that's I'm gonna go with
21:37
Speaker 3: the Rams.
21:39
Speaker 1: All right. We're at college football market, so I can't
21:41
Speaker 1: let you get out of here before I ask you
21:42
Speaker 1: a national championship question or two.
21:46
Speaker 2: Indiana is right now, I ask you one question.
21:49
Speaker 3: At the end, though, I got to ask you a
21:50
Speaker 3: question at the end that's totally fult I had on
21:52
Speaker 3: college football. And then I have a question for you.
21:53
Speaker 1: Well, look, part of what we we love right when
21:56
Speaker 1: you're kind of like a mid market when you're a
21:59
Speaker 1: team that has been there but not all the way
22:01
Speaker 1: done it. Yet you see Indiana and you say, hey,
22:05
Speaker 1: if they could do it, why can't we. If they
22:07
Speaker 1: could do it, why can't Utah. They can do it,
22:09
Speaker 1: why can't BYU? If they can do it, why can't
22:11
Speaker 1: whoever fill in the blank. I don't know that that's
22:15
Speaker 1: really the right way to approach it, even though I
22:17
Speaker 1: find myself in that category sometimes because what's happening.
22:21
Speaker 3: Is not it's not it's not I'm gonna tell you why.
22:24
Speaker 3: It only kids the rupted. But this is the craziest
22:26
Speaker 3: part of the story tonight, great fans in Utah, you
22:30
Speaker 3: do realize how much better historically the UTSA are in
22:34
Speaker 3: Indiana football? Correct significantly. You do realize that all of
22:39
Speaker 3: the success that BYU has had, right, all of the
22:43
Speaker 3: unbelievable players that have come through there, significantly better than
22:47
Speaker 3: that of what we have seen from Indiana. But wait,
22:50
Speaker 3: there's more. You do realize Utah States has been better
22:54
Speaker 3: than Indiana. Like, this is the whole point here. This
22:58
Speaker 3: should not be if they can do it, why can't we?
23:01
Speaker 3: You've been doing it significantly better than this school for
23:06
Speaker 3: the last thirty to forty years. It's not then applicable
23:10
Speaker 3: to the great schools in Utah because you've been better
23:13
Speaker 3: than them.
23:16
Speaker 1: Then why are they so much better than everyone else
23:19
Speaker 1: right now? Is this a Kurt Signetti is the Answer
23:22
Speaker 1: kind of thing?
23:24
Speaker 3: Yes, And because Major League Baseball made a stupid decision
23:28
Speaker 3: to turn Mark Cuban down from owning the Pittsburgh Pirates,
23:31
Speaker 3: so instead he tried to own a college football team,
23:34
Speaker 3: the one he went to. So with Mark Cuban funding,
23:37
Speaker 3: the program is brilliant. And obviously there's big dollars and donors.
23:41
Speaker 3: I'm sure at Utah BYU and I'm not saying that
23:43
Speaker 3: there's not. And they've had great coaches there as we know,
23:47
Speaker 3: I mean we're talking, I mean by inches away from
23:50
Speaker 3: being the playoffs. Utah has had some of the best
23:52
Speaker 3: players and coaches to come out of it. So I think, yes,
23:56
Speaker 3: it is a Signetti thing, it is a funding thing,
24:00
Speaker 3: and it is a coach who took a team with
24:03
Speaker 3: him to the next stop. That's the other interesting thing.
24:07
Speaker 3: Like mel Kiper Jr. Is on with us every single
24:10
Speaker 3: Wednesday and at six thirty your time, every single Wednesday,
24:16
Speaker 3: and mel Kiper Jr. Every time he talks about Signetti,
24:20
Speaker 3: he talks about how interesting the future is going to
24:22
Speaker 3: be when he doesn't have the JMU guys with him
24:26
Speaker 3: and James Madison where he coached prior. For example, Correct
24:30
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong. Kyle Whittingham took a lot of
24:32
Speaker 3: his coaches to Michigan, not a lot of his players.
24:35
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah.
24:36
Speaker 1: He took his whole offensive staff and his best recruiter
24:40
Speaker 1: from the defensive staff, and then he took I think
24:43
Speaker 1: we decided today it was like six guys.
24:47
Speaker 3: Imagine if he took his best players too.
24:51
Speaker 2: Well. I think he believes he did.
24:54
Speaker 3: Well. You'll get what I'm saying if you have if
24:57
Speaker 3: you have ten to fifteen guys off the Utah roster
25:00
Speaker 3: that now you're bringing to Michigan, combining with the Michigan
25:04
Speaker 3: roster and helping you set the tone for what your
25:08
Speaker 3: program is going to be. That's part of the story
25:11
Speaker 3: here and oh, by the way that Mendoza and people
25:16
Speaker 3: will see it in here tonight, Mendoza was dying to
25:19
Speaker 3: go to Miami. His dad, he's from Miami. When a
25:23
Speaker 3: state championship in Miami, his dad played high school football
25:26
Speaker 3: with UM's coach Mario Cristobal. His mom was a tennis
25:29
Speaker 3: player at Miami and when he was coming out of
25:32
Speaker 3: high school, many Diez was then coach at Miami now
25:34
Speaker 3: at Duke. He wanted to go there. Many d has
25:37
Speaker 3: turned him down. He went to Cal as you know,
25:40
Speaker 3: covering the Pact twelve as much as you have. He
25:43
Speaker 3: went to Cal and he wanted to go to Miami potentially,
25:47
Speaker 3: and there wasn't the obvious spot for him, and he
25:49
Speaker 3: goes to Indiana. So I mean the fact that Signetti
25:53
Speaker 3: ended up with him, and he brought all the JMU
25:56
Speaker 3: staff with him, and he's got the Mark Cuban funding
25:58
Speaker 3: and as he said, he went google him. It's just
26:01
Speaker 3: a perfect storm.
26:04
Speaker 1: And look it's if he wins it tonight, and I
26:06
Speaker 1: think he will. He recaps, he caps off the Greatest
26:10
Speaker 1: Sports Store. I mean, you have to make it a
26:12
Speaker 1: movie at some point, because they went from worse to
26:15
Speaker 1: first literally in a three year span. Really incredible stuff.
26:20
Speaker 1: What does Miami have to do to keep this game close?
26:24
Speaker 3: I think they have to attack, attack, and attack more.
26:27
Speaker 3: I think they gotta get nasty and they gotta go
26:29
Speaker 3: after them. I'm not suggesting to hurt him. That's not
26:32
Speaker 3: my him being Mendoza. I'm saying to rough him up,
26:36
Speaker 3: almost like the Patriots did with CJ. Stroud yesterday, where
26:39
Speaker 3: it's like every time he drops back he's nervous something
26:42
Speaker 3: is going to go wrong. Miami has great defensive linemen.
26:45
Speaker 3: They are coach on that defensive line by Jason Taylor,
26:48
Speaker 3: Hall of Famer Miami Dolphin, and I think they have
26:51
Speaker 3: to make it extremely uncomfortable for Mendoza. And this is
26:54
Speaker 3: where and I'm rooting for Miami, but this is where
26:58
Speaker 3: it's a little tricky. I'm not the biggest Carson beck fit.
27:02
Speaker 3: I have turned in his favor because he has learned
27:04
Speaker 3: what I deem to be a compliment, not an insult,
27:07
Speaker 3: how to manage the game. The problem is everyone in
27:11
Speaker 3: the no tells me he can't just do that. He's
27:13
Speaker 3: got to try to win the game for them tonight.
27:15
Speaker 3: And that's where I get nervous.
27:17
Speaker 1: Devin, You've been incredibly gracious with your time and your expertise,
27:20
Speaker 1: so I will answer your question if you really have
27:22
Speaker 1: one for me.
27:23
Speaker 3: Okay, I swear to God, I do. I've been dying
27:26
Speaker 3: for to ask you this, all right. I am a
27:29
Speaker 3: I am a pathetic loser when it comes to the
27:32
Speaker 3: NBA trade machine. I'm obsessive over hypothetical trades, and I
27:37
Speaker 3: like your big picture. What the Jazz are going to
27:41
Speaker 3: do here? Is Lori Marketing going to be traded? Nurkic,
27:46
Speaker 3: Kyle Anderson, Kevin love all these guys on big contract Well,
27:51
Speaker 3: I love not. But all these guys on contracts? Are
27:53
Speaker 3: they going to go somewhere else? What are the Jazz
27:55
Speaker 3: going to do now over the next three weeks?
27:57
Speaker 1: I think that Lowry market stays in a jazz uniform.
28:01
Speaker 1: I think that this ownership group and the leadership here
28:05
Speaker 1: realize how difficult it is to get an all star
28:08
Speaker 1: caliber player in Salt Lake City that truly loves being
28:11
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City, and Lowry Marketing fits that mold.
28:14
Speaker 1: The timing night might not work out as well because
28:17
Speaker 1: of his age and the rising age and his trade value.
28:20
Speaker 1: If somebody else really wants him, so that could be
28:23
Speaker 1: the only thing that pulls him out of here.
28:24
Speaker 2: But I believe that this.
28:25
Speaker 1: Ownership group and the management knows that Lowry Markinin truly
28:29
Speaker 1: loves being a Utah jazz man, and that's not been
28:33
Speaker 1: the case with Gordon Hayward who was previously your best player.
28:36
Speaker 1: That was not the case with Donovan Mitchell, who was
28:39
Speaker 1: best player. It wasn't the case with Rudy Gobert at
28:42
Speaker 1: the end, and that's unfortunate. So when you have one
28:45
Speaker 1: of those guys, I think they fight. I mean, I
28:47
Speaker 1: know a lot of the fan base feels this way,
28:48
Speaker 1: But conversations I've had with people in the organization, I
28:52
Speaker 1: think they're starting to come around to the idea that,
28:54
Speaker 1: like Man, when you've got an all star who likes
28:56
Speaker 1: being here, you should probably let him stay here rather
29:00
Speaker 1: than banking on future draft capital, especially when the lottery
29:03
Speaker 1: is rigged against you.
29:04
Speaker 2: But that's a different conversation.
29:06
Speaker 1: George Nyang, you can probably find a way to get
29:09
Speaker 1: him out of here. Love has been a great locker
29:11
Speaker 1: room presence, but I don't think he's important to the
29:14
Speaker 1: future for the Utah Jazz. But the building blocks of
29:17
Speaker 1: like Keyonte, George and Walker Kessler and and Lowry market In,
29:21
Speaker 1: I think they stay put.
29:24
Speaker 3: And what gets it, what gets Austin Ainge In company
29:28
Speaker 3: to change their minds? Three first, two first.
29:32
Speaker 1: Probably three, I think three would be the right price.
29:36
Speaker 1: Do you think anyone would give that up for Lowry.
29:40
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I do. I do think so, and I
29:43
Speaker 3: think that I also think like they have three forward
29:47
Speaker 3: three not bigs, but I mean guys that theoretically play
29:50
Speaker 3: the forward slash wing position, right and Hendricks obviously, Ace Bailey,
29:56
Speaker 3: Cody Williams. These are all guys that theoretically play where
29:59
Speaker 3: he playing right now. And then you know, Philip housekan
30:02
Speaker 3: know is playing a bunch of Walker Kestlers, dined up
30:05
Speaker 3: and done. But like, these are guys that are going
30:07
Speaker 3: to have to play at some point. No and market,
30:10
Speaker 3: in a weird way, is standing in their way if
30:12
Speaker 3: you're not trying to win now, which I can't imagine
30:14
Speaker 3: they are.
30:14
Speaker 1: Well, they're not trying to win now, but I think
30:16
Speaker 1: they're finding that this group already is better than they
30:19
Speaker 1: thought they were going to be, and and they're having
30:22
Speaker 1: to like change the way that they've made their promises
30:25
Speaker 1: about deliberately tanking. And so I think the timeline is
30:29
Speaker 1: accelerated when they think they can start winning.
30:32
Speaker 2: I don't know how much.
30:33
Speaker 1: And I don't know if Lowry, I mean, the great
30:35
Speaker 1: debate with him has been for years now. Can he
30:38
Speaker 1: be your number one option on a playoff team? On
30:41
Speaker 1: like an actual respectable competitor.
30:44
Speaker 3: Of the team. But Charloff, they keep them, they're going
30:47
Speaker 3: to lose their first.
30:48
Speaker 2: Round pick as well.
30:50
Speaker 1: They could keep them but sit him down and still
30:53
Speaker 1: keep the first round pick. That's the only way they're
30:55
Speaker 1: gonna be able to do it.
30:55
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, well top eight protected.
30:58
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, tell you what if you want lowry markten,
31:03
Speaker 1: you gotta do the You gotta pull a page out
31:06
Speaker 1: of the Dallas Mavericks playbook. You say, all right, I'll
31:08
Speaker 1: trade this guy if you guarantee that I get aj
31:11
Speaker 1: Debonsa in this upcoming draft and let Adam Silver manipulate
31:15
Speaker 1: however he does.
31:17
Speaker 3: I think Ryan Smith's already on that, isn't he.
31:19
Speaker 2: I hope that'll I really, I really hope. So.
31:23
Speaker 3: I think he's been working on that. And I'm not
31:25
Speaker 3: saying anything illegal. He used to be YU with Mark
31:28
Speaker 3: cubanis to Indiana and there's nothing illegal.
31:31
Speaker 2: But very smart of him, correct, correct, Evan.
31:35
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time
31:37
Speaker 1: on the show today. Love what you do early early
31:41
Speaker 1: in the mornings. Tell Michelle and Chris to keep up
31:43
Speaker 1: the good work as well.
31:45
Speaker 3: Thank you, sir, Well dude, thank you so much for
31:48
Speaker 3: having me. I appreciate it. Ton.
31:51
Speaker 2: That's Evan Cohen.
31:52
Speaker 1: Unsportsmanlike is what starts your live programming day on ESPN
31:57
Speaker 1: Radio four Am right here on Utah's number one sports
32:01
Speaker 1: talk their six am on the East Coast.