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Tigers Trick Or Treat · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:11
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory podcast network.
0:14
Speaker 2: Hey Detroit Tiger's podcast.
0:15
Speaker 1: I am Kieren Seckley with me is always a man
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Speaker 1: who is always down to do the time warp again.
0:21
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How you doing?
0:23
Speaker 3: Hey, doing good, Karen?
0:25
Speaker 2: Uh?
0:26
Speaker 3: Baseball season's about to be over, if not tonight as
0:28
Speaker 3: we're recording this, then here in another day or two
0:31
Speaker 3: for sure, which is kind of a strange feeling, but
0:34
Speaker 3: it also means that we're going to have some more
0:36
Speaker 3: tangible things to talk about, because once your team's out
0:38
Speaker 3: of the playoffs, as you guys know, it can it
0:40
Speaker 3: can feel like such a dead month topic.
0:44
Speaker 2: Wise, it can. Trust me as we try to come.
0:48
Speaker 3: Up, but there's not gonna be a dead episode. We're
0:50
Speaker 3: coming with some good stuff today. That wasn't I wasn't
0:52
Speaker 3: telling you guys to turn this off. Sorry.
0:54
Speaker 1: Honestly, this is an episode that it's kind of a
0:57
Speaker 1: sugar rush episode to be honest, Like we're gonna we're
0:59
Speaker 1: gonna be We're gonna have a lot of energy here today.
1:02
Speaker 1: We ASDA said, we're recording this before Game five of
1:05
Speaker 1: the Yankees Dodger series. I do just have one quick
1:09
Speaker 1: little thing to say about what transpired yesterday. Look, man
1:16
Speaker 1: Otani is in a sling running out for pregame introductions. Okay,
1:23
Speaker 1: he is not going to be able to swing the
1:25
Speaker 1: bat at the level that we understand Otani to do it, right.
1:28
Speaker 1: I think we can all understand that we could have
1:30
Speaker 1: anticipated that going. Actually this was before game three, whatever
1:36
Speaker 1: it does matter. Game three, then why are is Schmidt
1:41
Speaker 1: like walking basically unintentionally intentionally walking show hey a Tani
1:45
Speaker 1: to set up the Freddie Freeman home running Game three
1:48
Speaker 1: that took the air out of the building, the first
1:50
Speaker 1: Bronx World Series game in fifteen years or whatever.
1:53
Speaker 2: I was like, why don't you go after.
1:55
Speaker 1: Otani, a guy who you know cannot adequately swing a bat.
1:58
Speaker 1: I don't know, sorry, just kind of that kind of
2:01
Speaker 1: irked me at the time, And I'm still like reliving
2:03
Speaker 1: it a little bit other than that for four and
2:07
Speaker 1: you know, about to be five game World Series potentially
2:09
Speaker 1: more pretty entertaining. You know, even though we were looking
2:13
Speaker 1: out a sweep. You have the fred Fred Freeman stuff,
2:15
Speaker 1: you have fame fan interference stuff that this time doesn't
2:18
Speaker 1: go the Yankees. Way, you have the local kid Volpy,
2:22
Speaker 1: I mean, the judge saga still looms Stanton getting thrown.
2:28
Speaker 2: Out at home, a little.
2:31
Speaker 1: You know, a little Alex Korra taste for the Yankee
2:34
Speaker 1: fans that should they ever he ever be in their
2:37
Speaker 1: employ that play was way closer than I thought it
2:40
Speaker 1: would be happening as FYI. But anyway, so a lot
2:43
Speaker 1: of stuff happening for what has been technically a lopsided series.
2:47
Speaker 1: And we get to see Jack Flaherty again tonight, Cody,
2:50
Speaker 1: so any any any World Series thoughts the top off here.
2:54
Speaker 3: Just a couple of little things to go off here,
2:56
Speaker 3: like walking Otani point. I mean, Clark Schmidt got behind
2:59
Speaker 3: to ten of the fifth teen batters et face. So
3:01
Speaker 3: I was just hearing like aj Hinch and Chris Fetter
3:03
Speaker 3: in my head the whole game, like the value of
3:05
Speaker 3: first pitch strikes, which I think is still one of
3:07
Speaker 3: the great unsolved mysteries. Like I've said multiple times, every
3:11
Speaker 3: pitching coach in the history of baseball has been like,
3:14
Speaker 3: got to get ahead. You know. For some reason, the
3:17
Speaker 3: Tigers have become really good at it and are helping
3:19
Speaker 3: guys who haven't always been good at it improve at
3:23
Speaker 3: the simplest thing, like throwing the ball over the over
3:26
Speaker 3: the plate in an O count, and so to the
3:29
Speaker 3: point now where I'm watching other guys not do it,
3:31
Speaker 3: It's like, come on, you know what, what are you doing?
3:34
Speaker 3: Tigers pitchers are always ahead. Don't know how, don't know why,
3:37
Speaker 3: but they are, you know. And the other point with
3:39
Speaker 3: the fan interference stuff too, weird instances of that in
3:42
Speaker 3: this series, But I'm sick of it being compared to
3:46
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Mayer. Like I get it because it's the Yankees,
3:48
Speaker 3: but like, neither of these instances have altered the outcome
3:52
Speaker 3: of the play. There's been no like the game has
3:56
Speaker 3: not changed because of them. So it's really like not
3:58
Speaker 3: that relevant of a comparison.
4:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean it just like I said, it
4:05
Speaker 1: lends itself. I mean, we haven't seen another Bartman type
4:08
Speaker 1: situation a regular feel. I can only imagine what a
4:11
Speaker 1: Twitter reaction would be should that happen.
4:14
Speaker 3: I got I had a good thought. My colleague Andy
4:16
Speaker 3: McColo said this today. If the Bartman thing happened now,
4:19
Speaker 3: the guy would have his own like multimillion dollar podcast
4:22
Speaker 3: within a week.
4:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we were expecting these guys to be sponsored
4:28
Speaker 1: by DraftKings here in the next week.
4:31
Speaker 3: Going into exile. Bartman would be like a media star
4:35
Speaker 3: and he'd be very wealthy.
4:37
Speaker 1: I hope he's doing all right wherever he is, because, yeah,
4:40
Speaker 1: in all seriousness, is a shame this guy had to
4:42
Speaker 1: go into exile or something like that. And these dudes
4:45
Speaker 1: are being celebrated as heroes. But anyway, you know, that's
4:47
Speaker 1: a that's a soap opera.
4:48
Speaker 3: They're not heroes, they're idiots. All right, we'll move on.
4:51
Speaker 1: We can talk some tigers, talk some tigers, but also
4:54
Speaker 1: still with the world serious connection. As I said, Jack
4:57
Speaker 1: Flaherty's on the mound. By the time you guys are
4:58
Speaker 1: listening to this, you will know the result of his
5:01
Speaker 1: outing in Game five. But somewhat randomly, Cody, we you know,
5:07
Speaker 1: it's funny, I joked a couple weeks ago, like yeh
5:10
Speaker 1: we ever, didn't really know the return for Flarity, and
5:14
Speaker 1: well we now we know at least reported one of
5:18
Speaker 1: the potential pieces that had the Yankees pulled the trigger
5:22
Speaker 1: on a Flarity deal. It seems that one of the
5:25
Speaker 1: names involved in scoring the John Haymon over the New
5:28
Speaker 1: York Post would have been right handed pitcher Will Warren.
5:33
Speaker 1: So obviously, if you don't follow the Yankees, you probably
5:35
Speaker 1: don't know that much about Will Warren. But he is
5:39
Speaker 1: on the back half of his twenties. He was an
5:42
Speaker 1: eighth round pick in twenty twenty one with the Southeastern Louisiana.
5:46
Speaker 1: Ironically enough, he actually did become a major leaguer post
5:50
Speaker 1: tread deadline with the Yankees.
5:52
Speaker 2: The results not great, Bob.
5:57
Speaker 1: He pitched twenty two point two innings and and had
6:00
Speaker 1: a ten point three two ERA and that's with five
6:04
Speaker 1: starts and six appearances. So, like, you know, whwever you
6:08
Speaker 1: want to find that sample size, it was a sample size.
6:11
Speaker 1: And when I when I saw that report, the first
6:15
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to do, and it's hard to do,
6:17
Speaker 1: but the first thing I wanted to do was kind
6:19
Speaker 1: of go back to like my mindset at trade deadline time,
6:23
Speaker 1: and like what I thought about the return from the
6:26
Speaker 1: Dodgers with Tyrone and Sweeney. And I was like what
6:32
Speaker 1: I say at the time, it's like you got two hitters.
6:34
Speaker 1: You know, it feels pretty adequate, you know, like the
6:37
Speaker 1: profile of Tyrone, and then you know, Sweeney seems like
6:40
Speaker 1: a guy who might be able to help you out.
6:42
Speaker 1: That's what we thought at the time. Funny how things
6:44
Speaker 1: work out. I would imagine, without doing any deep dives
6:49
Speaker 1: on Will Warren or anything, I probably would have kind
6:52
Speaker 1: of been like okay, like and you know some at
6:56
Speaker 1: the time, someone who had never made it to the
6:58
Speaker 1: major leagues and is you know, born in the year
7:01
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, and.
7:05
Speaker 2: Like I s don't know if I would have been
7:07
Speaker 2: all that impressed.
7:08
Speaker 1: Now, there would have surely been other pieces, but we
7:12
Speaker 1: can only talk about what we know for sure. I'm
7:14
Speaker 1: not sure I would have had the same kind of
7:16
Speaker 1: okay feeling that I did with Loronzo and Sweeney. So
7:23
Speaker 1: you obviously are well connected. You hear names all the time.
7:28
Speaker 1: What was your reaction to Hayman putting this out there
7:30
Speaker 1: and then just kind of hashing out like the what
7:33
Speaker 1: if of this?
7:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think when we talked about this
7:36
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, I was like, yeah, we'll
7:37
Speaker 3: probably never know because generally people don't just like leak
7:40
Speaker 3: that stuff, or at least but like I also said, yeah,
7:45
Speaker 3: I'd heard a name. I wasn't going to report it
7:46
Speaker 3: because I never had it one thousand percent pinned down,
7:49
Speaker 3: But the name I had heard was none other than
7:51
Speaker 3: Will Warren, So I, especially if Hayman's putting it out there,
7:55
Speaker 3: I believe this to be true that Warren was the
7:57
Speaker 3: headliner of that deal. I don't know the rest of
7:59
Speaker 3: the pack that you never heard other names, So a
8:02
Speaker 3: little bit hard to judge if you don't know the
8:03
Speaker 3: whole trade. But yeah, you see it on paper and
8:05
Speaker 3: it doesn't really wow you warn't. I'm sure he's a
8:09
Speaker 3: good pitching prospect. If the Tigers like a pitcher, there's
8:11
Speaker 3: got to be something to him. But he's a little
8:13
Speaker 3: bit older. Five nine to one e R A and
8:15
Speaker 3: triple A. I guess we also know that triple A
8:18
Speaker 3: ras don't matter. Based on the second half of Detroit season. Uh.
8:22
Speaker 3: But yeah, like I'm not wowed or floored or saying, oh,
8:26
Speaker 3: you know, you wish the Tigers had that guy. Based
8:29
Speaker 3: on what Loronzo is doing right now, it almost looks
8:32
Speaker 3: like maybe the Dodgers are return is gonna end up
8:34
Speaker 3: being better.
8:36
Speaker 1: Theronzo some nice Uh you're seeing all the hitting highlights,
8:39
Speaker 1: but we you know, saw some backstoff stuff too that
8:43
Speaker 1: looked h he looks.
8:44
Speaker 2: Spry back there.
8:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, for for a big guy. You know,
8:47
Speaker 1: he's kind of like assume but like, yeah, you look,
8:49
Speaker 1: you look, you look pretty sprised, So we'll see, we'll
8:51
Speaker 1: see uh on that. But yeah, I mean the I
8:57
Speaker 1: guess the way, like I would try to again think
9:01
Speaker 1: back to my mind back then, is that like, did
9:05
Speaker 1: you get somebody of high upside? That's one of the
9:07
Speaker 1: things that we talked about. Did you get somebody with
9:10
Speaker 1: some upside? And obviously the runs of then was a
9:12
Speaker 1: parent and we know even more about that now. I
9:17
Speaker 1: would have been struggling to use the U word there
9:20
Speaker 1: in regards to Will Warren, And like I said, maybe
9:23
Speaker 1: there's somebody else in there too. Maybe they were thinking,
9:26
Speaker 1: here's a guy who instead of Sweeney, who could potentially
9:29
Speaker 1: help this year on the field, They're thinking, here's a
9:32
Speaker 1: guy who could help our pitching staff this season or whatever,
9:36
Speaker 1: given that they're trading starting pitcher and the injuries were
9:38
Speaker 1: already obviously mounting at that time, so you know, there's
9:41
Speaker 1: a lot that goes into it. I think everybody is
9:43
Speaker 1: gonna end up happier with this deal, and then you know,
9:47
Speaker 1: Flaherty closes out, Dodgers are gonna have no regrets either, right,
9:50
Speaker 1: so so they probably don't already because you know, we
9:54
Speaker 1: help them get to a World Series.
9:55
Speaker 3: No, there's one party that should maybe regret this, and
9:58
Speaker 3: it's the Yankees.
10:00
Speaker 1: Which begs the question, I'm curious why this was put
10:02
Speaker 1: out there. As I say, all the time, things get
10:05
Speaker 1: put out there for a reason, but I kind of
10:07
Speaker 1: struggle to figure out what the angle is on that.
10:10
Speaker 1: But regardless, I think I'm a big information guy. So
10:13
Speaker 1: we got some more information about that kind of hectic day.
10:18
Speaker 1: So I appreciate John putting that out there and his
10:21
Speaker 1: source for trust and John to do that, So kudos
10:24
Speaker 1: to everybody all around. Some other Tigers news, we had
10:30
Speaker 1: like an announcement another front office addition, and that would
10:35
Speaker 1: be Shane Barrell who comes from the Toronto Blue Jays.
10:41
Speaker 1: He was the director, he was the scouting director there
10:44
Speaker 1: and he will now be the director of player development
10:47
Speaker 1: for the Tigers. Significant in the sense that he also
10:54
Speaker 1: comes from Cubbs lineage, so Harris.
10:58
Speaker 2: Is familiar with them. Greenberg's familiar of them.
11:00
Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, I got a little couple of
11:02
Speaker 1: theo's in the uh in the Tigers front office right now?
11:06
Speaker 1: Uh So, sure, I'm sure THEO is real proud about that.
11:09
Speaker 1: And another connection, Cody. We joke about this all the
11:12
Speaker 1: time from the State of Oklahoma to the Tigers because
11:17
Speaker 1: Farrell's dad, John was a played for the Oklahoma State
11:23
Speaker 1: Cowboys in the eighties, part of some really legendary teams
11:27
Speaker 1: under Gary Ward sou So the connection runs even deeper.
11:32
Speaker 1: H Yeah, don't have really a lot of analysis on
11:35
Speaker 1: this one, but it seems like Harris keeps finding like
11:38
Speaker 1: minded people, like experienced people to uh to come into
11:42
Speaker 1: the front office.
11:42
Speaker 2: And I mean that in a good way. I don't
11:44
Speaker 2: mean that in a group thinks sense.
11:45
Speaker 3: So yeah, I overall like I've never met Shane Ferrell,
11:50
Speaker 3: but I know a lot of people who know him,
11:52
Speaker 3: and I've only heard good things about him. Seems to
11:54
Speaker 3: be a really sharp, like well guy has obviously worked,
11:57
Speaker 3: you know, in several different different organization so he has
12:01
Speaker 3: a range of experience. He's pretty high up in the
12:03
Speaker 3: Blue Jay system. Coming here to work under Ryan Garko,
12:07
Speaker 3: you know, seems like a positive addition to me. The
12:10
Speaker 3: group think thing is interesting when you're you know, you
12:14
Speaker 3: already hired Jeff Greenberg off the Cubs tree. Now you're
12:17
Speaker 3: hiring someone else off that tree, you know, maybe something
12:22
Speaker 3: that generally just concerns me a little about overall. I mean,
12:25
Speaker 3: I think the Tiger's front office has become really strong
12:29
Speaker 3: over the past couple of years, and I'll be interested
12:31
Speaker 3: to hopefully get to know Shane Ferrell a little bit more.
12:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we can get him on the pod. We'll
12:36
Speaker 1: see him, Shane coming in time, make him a friend
12:39
Speaker 1: of the podcast. So also you can go find his
12:42
Speaker 1: player profile page. When he pitched at Marshall, I believe
12:45
Speaker 1: it was a pitcher and he was a business.
12:48
Speaker 2: Management major at Marshall. So there you go. Well there's
12:52
Speaker 2: your back.
12:52
Speaker 3: Don't get that information everywhere.
12:54
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, there's there's your background. The latest addition to
12:58
Speaker 1: the front office. But you know, this is going to be,
13:02
Speaker 1: as we've talked about a million times, it's going to
13:04
Speaker 1: be a interesting, impactful and kind of tone setting off
13:09
Speaker 1: season that the front office dictates, you know, coming into
13:12
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five season. And it's no secret that
13:16
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of pitchers, he is a pitcher, right,
13:18
Speaker 1: you know, the Tigers are going to have to add
13:19
Speaker 1: to the pitching staff. So, uh, I know you texted me,
13:24
Speaker 1: you said, like, hey, I got a name that I
13:26
Speaker 1: kind of want to talk about or whatever. I don't
13:28
Speaker 1: even know who it is, so so I was just
13:31
Speaker 1: kind of leave the floor to you. Is there somebody
13:33
Speaker 1: that kind of you had the Yondi Diez thing from
13:35
Speaker 1: the hitting side, you know, last week? So now on
13:38
Speaker 1: the pitching side, you got a name that kind of
13:40
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense for the Tigers.
13:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. You know, I've talked about going to
13:45
Speaker 3: try to approach this offseason thinking a little bit less
13:48
Speaker 3: like what would I do or what what should the
13:51
Speaker 3: Tigers do? And more like what will the Tigers do?
13:54
Speaker 3: Given what we know about this front office and about
13:57
Speaker 3: this coaching staff, who are they actually going to target?
14:00
Speaker 3: What are the things they are looking for? And you
14:03
Speaker 3: look at the list of free agent pictures, it's pretty
14:05
Speaker 3: easy to throw out Walker Buehler, Luis Severino, guys like that.
14:11
Speaker 3: But I think I've landed on a name, and I
14:13
Speaker 3: can't take full credit. I had had some help in
14:15
Speaker 3: a conversation with this, but a name that I believe
14:18
Speaker 3: the Tigers might just like a ton No other than
14:21
Speaker 3: Nick Pavetta from the Boston Red Sox. He's going to
14:24
Speaker 3: be a free agent this winner. And you might hear
14:26
Speaker 3: that name, and you might think, Okay, it wasn't he
14:30
Speaker 3: was kind of supposed to be good in like twenty
14:32
Speaker 3: eighteen or something. Right, you look at it, just a
14:35
Speaker 3: surface numbers four point one four era this year, four
14:39
Speaker 3: point seven to six, career era two point zero war
14:43
Speaker 3: doesn't really sound good. Doesn't really get amped, does it.
14:47
Speaker 3: I don't know that Michael Lorenzen got anyone am to
14:49
Speaker 3: Jack Flaherty definitely did not get people amped when the
14:52
Speaker 3: Tigers signed him. So that's why I think Paveta could
14:54
Speaker 3: be the Tigers' latest project. Let's take a deeper look,
14:59
Speaker 3: all right, he the strike zone six point one percent
15:02
Speaker 3: walk rate, that's really good, strikes out a lot of guys,
15:05
Speaker 3: twenty eight point nine percent strikeout rate more than ten
15:08
Speaker 3: k's per nine, His walks have decreased, his strikeouts have
15:13
Speaker 3: increased or stayed steady over the years. And then what
15:17
Speaker 3: really gets me stuff plus For those who don't know,
15:19
Speaker 3: this is basically pitch modeling. This is pretty advanced stuff,
15:24
Speaker 3: the type of things front offices look at. It's putting
15:26
Speaker 3: pitches on a plot, taking context and the random results
15:30
Speaker 3: of baseball out of it, and just saying, how good
15:33
Speaker 3: are these guys? Pitches, like, how nasty is this guy?
15:36
Speaker 3: Among all major league starters last year who threw at
15:39
Speaker 3: least twenty innings, so pretty much any starter that was relevant,
15:42
Speaker 3: Nick Pavetta had the best stuff plus of all of them.
15:48
Speaker 3: He added a sweeper two years ago, began throwing it
15:51
Speaker 3: a lot more this year, gets swinging miss at a
15:55
Speaker 3: thirty five percent clip. Expected batting average against that sweeper
15:58
Speaker 3: was one ninety six. And you think when the Tigers
16:02
Speaker 3: like a guy, they usually already have a thing in mind.
16:04
Speaker 3: If we do this or this, we can get this
16:06
Speaker 3: guy to be even better. So I have no idea
16:08
Speaker 3: what they might see in his mechanics, but just looking
16:11
Speaker 3: at his pitch mix, he's pretty heavy fastball, sweeper, curveball.
16:15
Speaker 3: He has a cutter, he hasn't had a ton of
16:17
Speaker 3: success with it, especially not this past year, and still
16:20
Speaker 3: throws a little bit of a traditional slider. So just
16:24
Speaker 3: to me from Afar, seems right. Maybe if you can
16:26
Speaker 3: help this guy improve that cutter a little bit to
16:29
Speaker 3: work between the fastball and the sweeper, that could be
16:32
Speaker 3: an obvious addition. He's a little susceptible to the home
16:36
Speaker 3: run ball, and he gives up a lot of flyballs
16:39
Speaker 3: CA America Park going to be a lot better than
16:41
Speaker 3: Finway Park for that home run rate. And maybe not
16:45
Speaker 3: the best example, but Kintamaeida was a pretty heavy flyball
16:48
Speaker 3: pitcher and the Tigers seemed to like him. Remember the
16:51
Speaker 3: Tiger's rank add or near the top of converting flyballs
16:55
Speaker 3: into outs in the outfield. So when I put all
16:58
Speaker 3: that on paper, and the fact that Paveta, although I
17:01
Speaker 3: think every front off is looking at stuff. Plus so
17:04
Speaker 3: he might have some other suitors. He should be relatively affordable. Man,
17:09
Speaker 3: this seems like a guy the Tigers just might love.
17:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I like how you kind of brought up
17:17
Speaker 1: the Mayeta thing, because there's gonna be a couple parallels
17:21
Speaker 1: that you could draw, their age probably being one of them.
17:25
Speaker 1: Obviously is not Mayeta old, but he is going to
17:27
Speaker 1: be in his age thirty two season. So but that
17:31
Speaker 1: also in theory means you're probably not doing I mean,
17:36
Speaker 1: maybe that could be compally wrong. You might not do
17:39
Speaker 1: like the one year proven deal with him, you know
17:42
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like, so it might be a Mayeta
17:45
Speaker 1: closer relevant contract than like a Flairty one for fourteen
17:50
Speaker 1: to you know, at the time, develop him and make
17:54
Speaker 1: him the asset or whatever, which again, you really shouldn't
17:58
Speaker 1: be signing anybody this offseason with the idea of trading
18:03
Speaker 1: them at the deadline, like you want to you want
18:05
Speaker 1: to make yourself flexible, you know, and all that stuff.
18:08
Speaker 1: You gotta anticipate things that could happen. I understand that,
18:10
Speaker 1: but like you know what I mean, So we we've
18:12
Speaker 1: talked about that. Uh, he's a CIA guy. Tigers have
18:18
Speaker 1: you know it seemingly have had good relationships with bringing
18:21
Speaker 1: in CEA guys Flairty one of them, correct uh and
18:26
Speaker 1: and so so, like you know, all these things play
18:29
Speaker 1: a factor. That's why I bring them up. But just
18:31
Speaker 1: look at the service level stats. The thing that I
18:34
Speaker 1: like is that more or less since he got to Boston,
18:40
Speaker 1: you know, a respected organization. Of course, his numbers are
18:45
Speaker 1: pretty consistent. Like there's like if if you're the Harris
18:50
Speaker 1: administration and you're trying to bring in like as much
18:55
Speaker 1: data as you can in order to make like a
18:57
Speaker 1: profile that you think this guy can do this and
18:59
Speaker 1: we can improve that and blah blah blah, Like I
19:02
Speaker 1: feel like you have they have a lot of data
19:03
Speaker 1: points with as much constants as you could possibly get
19:07
Speaker 1: and which again like his era has kind of fluctuated
19:10
Speaker 1: to the mid flores and down since he's been in
19:13
Speaker 1: the Boston, And he is pretty durable if you just
19:17
Speaker 1: look at it. He made thirty three starts two years
19:20
Speaker 1: ago sixteen, I guess you know, three seasons ago, sixteen,
19:25
Speaker 1: two seasons ago, but he appeared in thirty something games,
19:28
Speaker 1: and then this past year he made as reference keeps
19:31
Speaker 1: double freezing on me, he made twenty six starts. So
19:35
Speaker 1: like a pretty pretty durable guy. And remark and I
19:39
Speaker 1: would say kind of remarkably consistent. Two things that if
19:43
Speaker 1: you're frustrated with the Casey mises of the world, if
19:47
Speaker 1: you were you know, if you were left longing by
19:52
Speaker 1: Rese Olsen once he came back from injury, if you
19:55
Speaker 1: remember the Spencal turn Bowl era, Like consistency is an
20:01
Speaker 1: enlightening feature for me as I look at possible tigers.
20:05
Speaker 3: That's that's something worth keeping in mind too, especially when
20:07
Speaker 3: we're talking about someone who's going to be penciled in
20:10
Speaker 3: and kind of probably more the back end of your
20:12
Speaker 3: rotation where you gonna you are gonna have some other
20:15
Speaker 3: like will they won't they type pictures? It might be
20:18
Speaker 3: nice to have a in theory, more stable presence who
20:21
Speaker 3: can just eat some innings. And then obviously you you know,
20:25
Speaker 3: I think if the Tigers are going to go after
20:27
Speaker 3: this guy, uh, it would be because they think he
20:29
Speaker 3: has serious upside as well.
20:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be here, I'll be here. I'll be curious
20:35
Speaker 1: how nosterdamis you are about this one, because just like
20:38
Speaker 1: the Yondie, it's a lot of things. You know, these
20:40
Speaker 1: are not perfect like players, situation bring in but you're
20:45
Speaker 1: just trying to check as many boxes as you can
20:47
Speaker 1: within the confines of keeping your ethos as an organization.
20:52
Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking about the entire.
20:53
Speaker 3: I think, you know, Like I said, yeah, can you
20:56
Speaker 3: keep thinking. I think they're probably gonna be a couple
20:57
Speaker 3: other names that fit this bill. And just because they're
21:00
Speaker 3: interested in the guy doesn't mean they're gonna get them.
21:03
Speaker 3: I mean, they were interested in Severino last season it
21:05
Speaker 3: didn't happen, you know what. They double back and go
21:07
Speaker 3: after him now that he did have a pretty good
21:10
Speaker 3: year and they think they can untap even more. I'm
21:12
Speaker 3: not sure, but this is a name that makes a
21:14
Speaker 3: lot of sense. I think the Tigers are gonna like
21:16
Speaker 3: them and there are probably probably some more names we
21:19
Speaker 3: will talk about in the days ahead as well, but
21:21
Speaker 3: I'm not sure any check almost every box the way
21:24
Speaker 3: this guy does. Yeah, like I.
21:28
Speaker 2: Said, look forward to scene if you are right, Okay.
21:35
Speaker 1: Let's kind of do this this this this episode is
21:40
Speaker 1: being released on Halloween. I hope everybody is gonna have
21:43
Speaker 1: a fun, safe Halloween, whether that's you know, with your kids,
21:46
Speaker 1: whether you're going to a local local watering hole, got
21:50
Speaker 1: you know, watching some you know, some sports, some games,
21:54
Speaker 1: some people you know in your life, whatever you're doing,
21:56
Speaker 1: I hope you're having a nice, safe time. If your
21:59
Speaker 1: trick or tree, here's some trick or treats for you
22:01
Speaker 1: before before it gets dark. All right, So the way
22:05
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to frame this was trick or treat?
22:09
Speaker 2: Right is it a trick what we saw last season
22:13
Speaker 2: or is it a treat? Basically?
22:14
Speaker 1: Like, is it for real? So you know, the figure
22:17
Speaker 1: is pretty easy to follow along. The first one's not
22:20
Speaker 1: easy though, So I ask you, Cody, trick or treat.
22:25
Speaker 1: The turtle sin that we saw post called down, you know,
22:31
Speaker 1: when he got called back up, is closer to the
22:34
Speaker 1: specer turtle sin that we can anticipate the development from
22:39
Speaker 1: there on out in twenty twenty five, and I'll remind
22:42
Speaker 1: the listeners. In fifty four games to start the year,
22:46
Speaker 1: he hit two oh one. He had four home runs,
22:48
Speaker 1: five ninety seven ops, sixteen walks.
22:51
Speaker 2: Bring this up a lot.
22:53
Speaker 1: Thirty eight games is noncluding postseason thirty eight games after
22:56
Speaker 1: being called up to forty eight six home runs, seven
23:00
Speaker 1: eighty one ops, and he had seventeen wucks. Again, fifty games,
23:06
Speaker 1: fifty four games at thirty eight games. We only got
23:08
Speaker 1: a not that many games at Special Tortolsen this past year.
23:11
Speaker 1: So trick or tree Special Torrelsen has to coined a
23:14
Speaker 1: phrase we used to say a lot. He's gotten closer
23:17
Speaker 1: to turning the corner.
23:22
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm a broken record here. He has
23:24
Speaker 3: fourteen hundred played appearances. So is there still a corner
23:28
Speaker 3: left to turn? I think when I see his numbers
23:31
Speaker 3: after his call up seven eighty one ops, I don't
23:34
Speaker 3: necessarily think that's a trick. So I'll give the guy
23:36
Speaker 3: a treat. What I worry is that is is that
23:39
Speaker 3: his ceiling Again? Two years ago he hit thirty homers
23:43
Speaker 3: even when he was really good. The total package offensively
23:47
Speaker 3: was just slightly above average. It wasn't phenomenal. He wasn't
23:52
Speaker 3: an elite hitter. He was a guy who hit for
23:54
Speaker 3: some power. And so you look at this, I mean
23:57
Speaker 3: that drought. He had a pretty lengthy draft in the
24:00
Speaker 3: middle of that. But he also you know, six homers,
24:03
Speaker 3: but he struck out forty nine times. Don't love that?
24:06
Speaker 3: Like the average to forty eight, you can feel pretty
24:09
Speaker 3: good about that. Three P thirty eight obp. Like, if
24:12
Speaker 3: he could do that over the course of full season
24:15
Speaker 3: and play improved defense like he did after his call up,
24:18
Speaker 3: he could be a serviceable first baseman without a doubt.
24:22
Speaker 3: So and I think he's capable of that. But the
24:25
Speaker 3: more and more we see this guy, I guess the
24:28
Speaker 3: question becomes, Okay, we know what the downside is. That's
24:31
Speaker 3: why we're having this conversation right now. Is there still
24:34
Speaker 3: an upside? And it's hard for me to think yes
24:37
Speaker 3: at this point.
24:39
Speaker 1: The reason I had to start off that way is
24:41
Speaker 1: because if you, like, if you're the Tigers front obvious
24:45
Speaker 1: and you think this is a trick and you kind
24:47
Speaker 1: of have to like, that's gonna be the serving motivation
24:51
Speaker 1: for making a serious move at first base. So U
24:55
Speaker 1: if you're a special total syn optimist, then you kind
24:59
Speaker 1: of looking at it, it's like, all right, well, he
25:01
Speaker 1: there's only so much you can fix in season focused
25:04
Speaker 1: on this. You saw improvement here whole off season. Hope
25:08
Speaker 1: to implement more changes. That would be the optimistic look
25:11
Speaker 1: at Spencer Turklesen. Only the Tigers brass and Turklesen. No
25:15
Speaker 1: for sure what the deal is there, but obviously a
25:19
Speaker 1: huge offseason for him. All right, another trick or treat
25:25
Speaker 1: Trek Scooble perennial Cy Young guy now not Cy Young winner.
25:34
Speaker 1: But to mention the other picture, that's pitching tonight, Garret Cole,
25:39
Speaker 1: Gary Cole, basically since he's since he was traded to
25:42
Speaker 1: the Astros, was a top five finisher in the Cy
25:45
Speaker 1: Young There's a there's a year in there, I believe
25:47
Speaker 1: where he was just outside the top five more or
25:51
Speaker 1: less though he is a top five CY Young guy.
25:54
Speaker 1: And that started at age twenty seven. What is Trek
25:56
Speaker 1: Schouoble twenty seven?
25:58
Speaker 2: Right? So?
25:59
Speaker 1: Uh so is our trick or treat Trek Schouoble Perennial
26:03
Speaker 1: Cy Young candidate.
26:04
Speaker 3: Here move forward? Yeah, I tend to think that's definitely
26:08
Speaker 3: a treat he has, as we've heard multiple times, like
26:12
Speaker 3: he's kind of become the total package. He has a
26:14
Speaker 3: power fastball, he has one of the best changeups in
26:17
Speaker 3: the game. He has a nasty slider, so he has
26:20
Speaker 3: at least three legit, legit pitches. He's got a big frame.
26:25
Speaker 3: He's at least this past year was extremely durable. You know,
26:30
Speaker 3: can can improve as a game goes on, can pump
26:33
Speaker 3: up his vel late in the game, shows up for
26:37
Speaker 3: the big moments like diligent worker, focus driven. Can't think
26:43
Speaker 3: of what more you would want. So the only thing
26:44
Speaker 3: that should keep Trek Scooble from pitching at this level
26:48
Speaker 3: year and a year out for a long time to
26:50
Speaker 3: come is obviously injury risk, which is up in the
26:53
Speaker 3: air with any pitcher in baseball a little bit. If
26:55
Speaker 3: he stays healthy. I see no reason that we cannot
26:58
Speaker 3: see this level of performance from Schooble for almost a
27:02
Speaker 3: Garrett Cole type run.
27:05
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes a lot billion organization a lot
27:08
Speaker 1: easier if you can get that out of them. Next
27:10
Speaker 1: one up, speaking of injury, you know, concerns slightly and
27:15
Speaker 1: call up. So combining the previous two trigger treats, Parker Meadows.
27:19
Speaker 1: Parker Meadows, you realize he had three hundred after he
27:22
Speaker 1: got called up, and then yes, was crazy, right, yeah,
27:27
Speaker 1: and that's I don't have the ops in front of me,
27:29
Speaker 1: but I did. I did note that he uh, looking
27:33
Speaker 1: at my notes here before he got called down, he
27:37
Speaker 1: only had four extra base hits and that was I
27:41
Speaker 1: believe in May. And then when he got called back up,
27:44
Speaker 1: he had twenty three. So so yeah, he could he
27:48
Speaker 1: was hitting the ball a lot better. And that's not
27:51
Speaker 1: to mention like defense and all that stuff. And yeah,
27:54
Speaker 1: so he was a three hundred hitter, three hundred hitter
27:57
Speaker 1: post call up. So trigor treat Parker Meadows is the
28:03
Speaker 1: bat for real?
28:05
Speaker 3: Eight forty ops after his call up and that was
28:08
Speaker 3: in forty seven games, so not a tiny sample size.
28:11
Speaker 2: Uh.
28:13
Speaker 3: I still think maybe I love Parker Meadows. I think,
28:16
Speaker 3: you know, he should be the Tiger centerfielder for as
28:19
Speaker 3: long as his bat will allow. But I think it's
28:21
Speaker 3: probably a little bit of a trick, right, Like again,
28:24
Speaker 3: we know what the downside is. There's a guy whose
28:27
Speaker 3: performance has kind of fluctuated or he's been prone to
28:30
Speaker 3: slumps throughout his minor league career. He can he can
28:35
Speaker 3: still struggle against spin, lowing in like there's a little
28:39
Speaker 3: bit of a hole in the swing there. I think
28:41
Speaker 3: he's a really good talent, really talented player, a ton
28:44
Speaker 3: of upside. I mean, I don't think he's going to
28:47
Speaker 3: have an eight forty ops next season, you know, I
28:49
Speaker 3: think that can you have a seven to fifty ops hell?
28:53
Speaker 3: That would be great. You would take that in a heartbeat.
28:56
Speaker 3: You're still hoping for league average, a league average bat
29:00
Speaker 3: for Meadows, and he's done enough to make you wonder,
29:03
Speaker 3: could there be a little bit more in there? I
29:05
Speaker 3: think over the course of one sixty two, uh, he's
29:08
Speaker 3: not going to perform at quite that level.
29:11
Speaker 2: I will say that.
29:14
Speaker 1: Friend of the podcast, Keith Law, kind of hit the
29:17
Speaker 1: nail on the head because he was like, you know, Parker,
29:19
Speaker 1: pretty sure it was Keith. It was either Keith or Jim.
29:22
Speaker 1: That was like, you know, if he hits two forty
29:24
Speaker 1: you know, that was like his expectation. And I think
29:27
Speaker 1: he ended up technically being two forty eight something like that. So,
29:30
Speaker 1: uh so, yeahy four forty four to forty four. So
29:34
Speaker 1: shout out, shout outs to Keith and or Jim. All right,
29:39
Speaker 1: here's one that I think is self explanatory, but I
29:41
Speaker 1: also want to give him a little bit of credit
29:44
Speaker 1: trick or treat. Justin Henry Malloy's eight hits in eleven
29:48
Speaker 1: played appearances in the postseason, we'd probably still be talking
29:53
Speaker 1: about him had they at least made the ALCS, because
29:56
Speaker 1: he would have done something, you know, at Yankee Stadium.
29:58
Speaker 2: Presumably you know what I mean, So.
30:00
Speaker 1: Shout out, shout out Jahan, but trick or tree Jay
30:03
Speaker 1: Hen's postseason tear a sign of things to come in
30:09
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.
30:10
Speaker 3: Man, I struggle with Jahn, Like, I just don't quite
30:14
Speaker 3: know what to make of him. I think he had
30:15
Speaker 3: some really impressive at bats, even down the stretch in
30:18
Speaker 3: the regular season. He does some things at the plate
30:21
Speaker 3: that is just really hard not to like. But there's
30:25
Speaker 3: still I mean, it all comes down to, like what
30:28
Speaker 3: can he do in the field. Then you also zoom
30:30
Speaker 3: out and he struck out eighty five times in two
30:34
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty plate appearances, Like he can be pretty
30:37
Speaker 3: strikeout prone. And how much of a factor is that
30:41
Speaker 3: going to be, especially as the league learns him better
30:44
Speaker 3: and pitchers begin attacking him in different ways. I don't
30:47
Speaker 3: know if this one is a trick or treat. This
30:49
Speaker 3: is that candy that you're like handing over to mom
30:52
Speaker 3: and you're like, can you look at this? Can you
30:54
Speaker 3: check this out? Or that more likely like an overly
30:58
Speaker 3: concerned parent is like, no, what is that? That's a
31:01
Speaker 3: little different. Let me look at this, and like is
31:04
Speaker 3: he I don't know he was? What do you say?
31:07
Speaker 3: Eight hits and eleven postseason plate appearances. That's amazing. Is
31:10
Speaker 3: he even on your opening day roster next year? I
31:12
Speaker 3: have no idea, because if you can't trust him to
31:14
Speaker 3: play the field, and if you're not gonna let the
31:17
Speaker 3: man try on a first baseman's glove, then then it's
31:20
Speaker 3: uh gonna be hard to carry him on the roster.
31:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean short, it's kind of shallow thinking here.
31:31
Speaker 1: If he could play a decent right field, I don't
31:33
Speaker 1: you know, get a good enough arm. You feel pretty
31:37
Speaker 1: good about a right field platoon of Carrie and Jahn,
31:40
Speaker 1: Like that's uh that that that that war at the
31:44
Speaker 1: plate for the right field position would be pretty nice.
31:47
Speaker 1: That'd be pretty pretty dangnice. All right, lastly, wrap up
31:51
Speaker 1: trick or treat? Gonna combine these two guys. Tyler Holten
31:57
Speaker 1: Matt Vererling Three War Players trick or treat.
32:01
Speaker 2: For the reliever, the reliever of the year.
32:06
Speaker 1: For the team, and the utility man, both kind of
32:10
Speaker 1: utility guys actually the pitching and fielding utility players for
32:14
Speaker 1: the team.
32:15
Speaker 2: Three War Players.
32:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:17
Speaker 3: You know, another thing that amazes me a little bit
32:19
Speaker 3: is Tyler Holton. Like, he has been so good over
32:22
Speaker 3: the past two years. And I am not going to
32:24
Speaker 3: discount that one bit because he's just been steady, he's
32:27
Speaker 3: been reliable. At the same time, he has sustained an
32:31
Speaker 3: unusually low batting average and balls in play for the
32:34
Speaker 3: better course of two years. He's like not supposed to
32:37
Speaker 3: be able to do that, but he has so Logic
32:41
Speaker 3: statistics would tell me, like he's probably not going to
32:44
Speaker 3: be a three War player. He's also pitched a ton
32:48
Speaker 3: and he's for the most part like held up and
32:51
Speaker 3: been durable and his stuff hasn't really dipped much, been
32:54
Speaker 3: very consistent. Can he continue doing that moving forward? I
32:58
Speaker 3: think that's a question. But I don't know. He's also
33:03
Speaker 3: just been so good, So it's hard for me to
33:04
Speaker 3: like land on one verdict or the other. I mean,
33:07
Speaker 3: if I had to choose, I think Holton's going to
33:09
Speaker 3: remain a good reliever for years to come. He's probably
33:12
Speaker 3: not gonna be a three war reliever, because, let's face it,
33:15
Speaker 3: that's hard for anyone to do out of the bullpen.
33:18
Speaker 3: Vierling's an interesting one too. Obviously, did some good things
33:21
Speaker 3: this year, did get the ball in the air a
33:23
Speaker 3: little bit more, did tap into his pull side power.
33:25
Speaker 3: But I think what impresses me the most about Vierling
33:28
Speaker 3: is just all the little things. He always seemed to
33:30
Speaker 3: be doing. Quality at bats when you need one, sackflies,
33:33
Speaker 3: runs the base as well, plays the outfield well, not
33:37
Speaker 3: great at third, but can hold his own over there. Like,
33:41
Speaker 3: just seemed to do so many little winning things on
33:44
Speaker 3: the baseball field, especially in the final two months of
33:46
Speaker 3: the season. Does that equate to another three war year?
33:50
Speaker 3: A little bit hard to say, Like is there still
33:52
Speaker 3: more he can tap into at the plate? I don't know,
33:55
Speaker 3: or could he be prone to go back into that
33:57
Speaker 3: kind of ground ball mode given that that's his history,
34:00
Speaker 3: That's what I would worry about, and I'd worry that
34:04
Speaker 3: maybe there's not a ton more there in the tank.
34:06
Speaker 3: Maybe he could be a big regression candidate next year.
34:10
Speaker 3: I do hold that fear a little bit while simultaneously
34:14
Speaker 3: like really respecting the way Matvereling plays the game.
34:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, both guys, to me are.
34:25
Speaker 1: It's not perfect analogy, but sort of like that that
34:28
Speaker 1: six man in basketball or that slot receiver in football
34:32
Speaker 1: that it's like, you keep the roles correct and we've
34:36
Speaker 1: a lot of effectiveness for you. You start asking to do
34:40
Speaker 1: things that isn't necessarily a strength, be on the outside,
34:45
Speaker 1: play more minutes type deal. I think you can start
34:47
Speaker 1: to see the inadequacies a little bit more. If the
34:50
Speaker 1: Tigers are in the postseason next year, I would heavily
34:53
Speaker 1: prefer maverely not be the three hole hitter.
34:56
Speaker 3: Is you would hope the lineup is somehow I proved
35:00
Speaker 3: to where that's not the case.
35:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, that was fun.
35:04
Speaker 1: I told you all was going to be a sugar
35:06
Speaker 1: Rush podcast.
35:07
Speaker 3: I think that was pretty good. I think that was
35:08
Speaker 3: pretty good stuff for Halloween.
35:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, so again, hope everybody's having We'll have a safe
35:14
Speaker 1: and happy Halloween.
35:18
Speaker 2: Cody.
35:18
Speaker 1: I hope you find yourself something to do. I know
35:20
Speaker 1: you've reverenced that last time, so uh, hope you have
35:23
Speaker 1: a fun Thursday night. I want to thank everybody for listening.
35:25
Speaker 1: Thank you for subscribing wherever you get your podcast and
35:28
Speaker 1: subscribe to YouTube. We are growing the YouTube. Make sure
35:32
Speaker 1: you are on YouTube so you can see our pretty
35:35
Speaker 1: faces and be like, oh, yeah, that's what they look like.
35:37
Speaker 1: That's that. This is what we look like, but we
35:40
Speaker 1: reserve the right to change whenever we want. And also
35:43
Speaker 1: follow us on the socials. Cody's at Cody stapan Hagen.
35:46
Speaker 1: I am at kieraniscore s Decley pop page at tur
35:49
Speaker 1: At Tiger Territory.
35:51
Speaker 2: Almost of the tongue there.
35:53
Speaker 1: This is Tiger Territory, formerly known as Turning the Corner
35:56
Speaker 1: and so forth. Cody stave in Hagen. I'm Kieren Steckley.
36:00
Speaker 2: Everybody have a great holiday.