Latest / RoofersCoffeeShop / Training Contractors for Low-Slope Success
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- Adam Cabrera: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations, and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. Hello everyone and welcome back to Roofing Road Trips brought to you by RoofersCoffeeshop.com. I'm your host, Megan Ellsworth, and today I'm here to talk to the professionals at Mulehide Products to talk all things training contractors for low slope success. I'm here with Alicia and Chris from MuleHide for we're gonna talk about training you guys, growth, opportunity all in the low slope roofing market. So welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you both. Thanks for having us. This is great. Thank you. Absolutely. Okay, let's dive right in. And Alicia, could you please start us off and just tell us a little bit about you and your role at MuleHide? Sure, absolutely. ⁓ again, my name is Alicia Vobian, and I've been with MuleHide for a little over a year and a half. However, I've been part of the ABC supply family for eleven years this month, actually. ⁓ I come from a history of training. ⁓ in person and creating resources for training purposes for others to use. So my role here now at Mule Hyde is the national training manager. So I oversee all of our training resources and our training centers. Wow, very cool. Amazing. ⁓ Chris, what the heck do you do at MuleHide? Hi, my name's Chris Ronk. I am a territory manager for the state of Wisconsin. I also cover part of the UP. and ⁓ a little bit of Illinois. I am in my thirty sixth year on the roofs. So I started when I was fifteen years old and on a crew and spent spent a lot of time there. I spent sixteen years with A B C Supply and the last nine with Mulehide here. Very good. Amazing. Well again thank you both for being here and chatting with me today. okay, so Chris I'm gonna Direct this one to you first. What are some of the biggest training needs that you're seeing contractors are facing in the low slope roofing industry right now? There's truly a lack of knowledge in the in that regard. Back in 2006 to 2008, the construction industry took a large step backwards. As you remember, there was a great big recession and we lost a huge number of workers in the industry. And traditionally in the construction industry, we have older workers teaching younger workers. And when that gap or that recession happened, there it developed a gap. And what we ended up with is a lot of older guys that are aging out of the roofing industry. We have a gap there and then we have a lot of younger guys coming into it now. So the tradition of the older workers teaching the younger workers there's there's a space there and we're he we help fill that with our training classes. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Especially it's interesting you say the two thousand six, two thousand eight, I feel like that also happened with obviously twenty twenty. And so it's like they kinda piled on top of each other those two kind of incidences where we're losing some, you know, people that are really experienced and skilled. ⁓ And so Alicia, what are you seeing as the biggest need in terms of training for low slope contractors right now? Well, I would have to echo what Chris is saying. ⁓ I basically receive all my feedback after having conversations with the experts, the territory managers who are out there both on the ground working with these individuals. ⁓ so again, just you know, echoing what Chris said about the experienced people ⁓ retiring out. ⁓ and bringing in the next generation and basically getting them ready to, you know, enter into this industry. So with that our training needs to make sense for them. ⁓ starting with the basics, ⁓ giving them a great foundation so they can be successful and that's where our territory managers ⁓ take that training resource that we offer them and make that happen. Yeah, absolutely. How would you say manufacturers help steep slope contractors confidently transition into the low slope roofing market. Like what's kind of your beginner 101 steep slope to low slope process look like, Alicia? So our training right now offers ⁓ it's almost like an introduction to low slope roofing. Perfect. So it starts with the basics, it walks them through what is what a roof is made up of. It talks about all the different types of products and roofing systems out there. the accessories, ⁓ the equipment that's needed. So these guys really do a great job when they're hosting their training to really start with the basics and and obviously ⁓ expand their knowledge based on what some of the questions are. So these there's so many different people that come in with different backgrounds and and different knowledge about roofing. ⁓ our training is is there so we can start with the basics and then we can grow on some of the topics that might be more important to the specific contractors or ⁓ attendees that are actually in our training centers. Amazing. Amazing. So Chris, how does Mulehides Training Center that you worked talked about before, how does that network benefit contractors in the roofing industry, especially like we just talked about, those contractors that are wanting to go from steep slope to low slope? Often I get a a younger contractor or contractor looking to grow their business and they're they're gonna look outside of what they already know. And they may be turning down leads for commercial projects because they just don't feel qualified to do them. So at some point in time they'll reach out and they'll say, Could you help me learn this? I need to grow my business and I want to follow up on some of these leads I've passed up on in the past. And I look at it as an opportunity. And we look at it as an opportunity to help us grow also. So it's yeah it's beneficial for both of us. The network of training centers, we have four right now and we're looking at a fifth one. The awesome in the in the past, the training center when we only had one or two, there was limited amount of space. We could only teach so many contractors in a time period. So by having a network of them now, the contractor's traveling less distance, and as territory managers, we're traveling less distance. Everything is there that needs to be there in order to fully teach whatever class we need for that contractor. And then there's more space available because it's less territory managers tr sharing the same facility. Got it. Yeah. Exactly. And I know you just opened one in Denver within the last like couple of years. That's where I live, so shout out to Colorado. Yes. Alicia, what are where so you have Denver, where are all the locations again? So our locations excuse me, we have one in Avenel, New Jersey, ⁓ Orlando, Florida, Beloit, Wisconsin, which is our flagship training center. And of course the the training center in Colorado. It's right outside of Denver in Englewood, Colorado. Yes. ⁓ but you know, no matter what Mule High Training Center that any of these associates or contractors go to, they're going to get the same experience. We have the same classroom experience ⁓ with the territory managers training, there's the same hands on experience. So no matter where they are in the region, they're going to get the same experience from us. So that's the good thing about being able to grow these networks. ⁓ there's nothing ⁓ separate or nothing unique for each of the regions. It's it's the same information. Yeah. That's great. Do you guys do trainings outside of the those those facilities as well, like on the job? I know I'm sure your territory managers do a lot of probably spontaneous on-the-job training. Chris, can you speak to that? Yeah, it's quite common actually. And a lot of times we'll we do what was is called a walkthrough on a job. So when a new project starts, we'll Go out to that job on day one and I usually meet the project manager and the foreman and ⁓ oftentimes there's ⁓ there's other individuals that are there, ⁓ maybe a general contractor or such, and I'll walk the roof with them and we'll look at every single detail starting from the deck up and we'll talk about fastener patterns, we'll talk about base attachment, we'll talk about individual details. Sometimes there's generators on the roof. Sometimes there's specific HVAC equipment. A lot of different things that can be put on a rooftop today. And we'll go over the proper way to flash those ⁓ things in and make sure that roof is watertight for its intended lifespan. That's awesome. That's awesome. Cause it's so important, right, Alicia, to that like that manufacturer-led training can really help contractors improve their installation quality. Productivity, warranty compliance. How are you seeing these this more access to training help the contractors you work with? ⁓ man, I think it's been very successful. We've seen the numbers increase over the last couple of years. Awesome. ⁓ we've had training centers, as Chris said, along for a while around for a while. ⁓ but as we continue to grow, especially in the last year and a half that I've been here, I've seen a lot of s success and our numbers are are spiking. ⁓ I think the manufacturer led training is key because they're learning from the actual source. They're learning from subject matter experts. ⁓ for our contractors it's an opportunity for them to have that hands on experience. They're not just sitting in a classroom hearing about the product. They're actually able to get their hands on it. Install it. ⁓ our training centers have a mock group system and tables where details can be done. ⁓ our training centers are built out ⁓ they're they're They're built out to be able to host any type of training. And the hands on part is obviously the fun part. Everybody wants to get out you know, learn how to weld and ⁓ do some installation, right? So for them having that manufacturer led training is is perfect when it's coming from the territory managers of of the company that we work with. Yeah, that's so important to have like the combo between kind of the, you know, inside classroom style training and then taking everything you've learned and doing it hands on. And and to to your point, Chris, of, you know, doing the walkthroughs and and looking at every single layer and step of that roof ⁓ that roof laydown, what is most effective teaching style do you s what which one's more effective? The kind of classroom style, hands on or they kind of work in tandem with each other. They often work in tandem. ⁓ yeah. I'll give you an example. I had a prison job that came up and it was a very, very specific assembly that the architect required for this facility. And what we did is we ordered the exact materials that this roofer needed on that job. And we put the assembly together hands-on together with his workers. And in a prison, there are only certain hours of operation as far as what work can go on. So there's a check-in process in the morning, there's work during the day, and then there is ⁓ leave at the end of the day, ⁓ a checkout process. There's no phones allowed in prisons. So there's no phone calls in or out. So when we did the specific training, it was specific membrane, specific insulation, ⁓ specific fastening patterns to mimic that job exactly. And what it did is it allowed every one of the workers that's on that crew to go ahead and assemble that roof just like they're going to on the job site. And every detail was exactly the same so that when they went in there, they didn't have the questions. They didn't have to stop and make a phone call. They didn't have to download a video to remember how to do something. We w we went ahead and built a mock roof that matched exactly what that prison roof requirements were. Wow. That's aw that's brilliant. And what a great resource to have, you know, as a contractor. Alicia, can you talk to that a little bit of like I mean, that's really going above and beyond Chris. Wow. That really is. And honestly, I don't know if I've ever heard that story from you, Chris. I think that's fantastic. ⁓ I will say Chris has been quite a leader. ⁓ I've learned a lot from Chris in the last year and a half that I've been here. He offers so many opportunities having ⁓ the knowledge and expertise that he brought over from ABC supplies, being on the in the roofing business for so many years. ⁓ but it's that type of mentality that Chris has that's like All right, here's what we're faced with. How can we accomplish this and be successful? This is how we're gonna do it. So that just blows my mind that story you just I didn't know that story. So I think that's very awesome. But not a lot of people are built that way. Right. And and so I think it's just with with everything that you offer Chris and your experience, like that's that's so fantastic. The other thing that we use, ⁓ that Chris has brought to my attention and people before me, ⁓ filled out some some decks, some decks that can be portable. And simply can build those out using ⁓ pallets. ⁓ wooden pallets. You put ⁓ together and you know, Chris has put walls up so he can bring those different pallets to different contractor businesses, different A B C supplies. He lays them out and be ha brings the roof to them. Yeah. So those are unique ways that I think ⁓ you'll be able to help more contractors. you know, if they can't get off the roof and come to you, these guys definitely go to them and with those types of resources, that's how they're really gonna learn. So I think that's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it really speaks to my next question, which is like how can training programs be personalized to meet the real world and needs of different ⁓ types of workers, whether they're new or experienced or ⁓ you know, seasoned c installers, contractors. So that really I mean speaks to Mulehide going above and beyond in their training resources for their contractors. Is there another kind of example you have of how training programs can be personalized to meet the contractor besides, you know, the prison mock deck and then bringing deck mock decks to the contractor so they can practice there? What else do you guys do? Anything special? I What do you got up your sleeve, Chris? Because I'm sure you have something Yeah. So we actually did a a contractor's his own building. So we went ahead and, you know, evaluated the roof ⁓ ahead of time and he said, you know, what do you think? I said, I it could use a roof and he knew it. He says, Well, it's been leaking all over and I he had just bought the building and his intention was to fix it. So we came up with a plan and his guys he said, I've always wanted to learn this and teach my guys this. I said, Well, here's a perfect example and who you gonna yell at if it i if you get something wrong? So I'll spend the day with you and what I did is I we went out there and met ⁓ in the morning and you know, all the materials were delivered the afternoon before. And ⁓ we got started on ⁓ right away in the morning and by mid afternoon they were going ahead and ⁓ they were installing everything according to factory specification and we went ahead and roofed the contractor's own building ⁓ and used that as the learning platform for his his crew. Wow. That's awesome. That's very very innovative, apparently. ⁓ Yeah, some more of your tricks, Chris. ⁓ I love it. That's so great too, 'cause it's kind of I mean, it's not low stakes 'cause you want your roof above like your office building to be, you know, good. But it is kind of low stakes 'cause it's not like a customer. You're you can kinda have room to play and and learn and try some experimental things or what have you. So that's a great idea. so Chris, what role does the territory manager play in identifying training needs, if maybe a contractor doesn't see the needs that they have ⁓ in supporting contractor development? So the first thing I do with a contractor when he comes to me or she comes to me and says, you know, I I need to make sure we're doing this right. We need to we need to put a roof on this particular project and I it's it's gotta go well for me. So often I'll go to past projects they've done and take a look and see if the work is done to factory specifications. It may or may not be done to factory specifications. Then I'll have a conversation and say, you know, we may have some opportunities to improve. Or we may we may be okay. And ⁓ sometimes with those contractors where there's opportun opportunities to improve, we'll invite them to our training center and spend some time ⁓ offer them a day of training in order to bring them up to speed. ⁓ I often get a an old seasoned roofer that will tell me I've been doing this for twenty years or 25 years and and that's pretty common. And it's not that that Roofer was taught wrong or has been doing it wrong for 25 years. It's more likely that we've changed as a manufacturer. Often we will update our specification, we'll update our requirements, and we will change. And He learned it one way twenty-five years ago, but we changed and now we ask for it to be done differently. Yeah. We'll often change due to ⁓ code changes, maybe ⁓ wind ratings necessary. It could be a lot of different reasons. We'll change our assemblies and our codes codes and details. And he wasn't brought up to speed or up to date. And so when those those older seasoned contractors tell me I've been doing this for twenty five years, you can't teach me anything, that's that's fine. Maybe I can't. But ⁓ maybe maybe it can bring you up to speed. Yeah. I love that. I love just being able to have a relationship with, you know, someone like your your territory manager that's like, I wanna help you grow. You wanna help me grow. Let's help each other grow and be better. And and also It's it's it's tough recognizing when you have to grow or change a certain process. So having someone that's, you know, maybe a little light handed in telling you that, ⁓ is nice too, especially when, you know, old dogs can learn new tricks too every once in a while. So that's cool. I I look at a of these guys and I'm older than most of them now and I tell them that I look to learn something every day. And ⁓ that usually takes their defensive nature out of them and ⁓ just understand we're all human and we can all learn every day. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Ex and that's exactly what Chris has said to me in the past because I asked so many questions and I asked for his advice on things. And he said that and I said, You're absolutely right. There's so much I can learn. There's so much I need to learn. so if I'm not learning something every day, I'm not growing as a person. I'm not growing as a professional. So Chris is always ⁓ So helpful with that. I appreciate it very much. I love it. Okay, so my next question is can you give us some examples on how MuleHide training has impacted your customers? and I feel like we've already gotten so many, but if you have any more, please, ⁓ Chris or Alicia, ⁓ whoever wants to go first. I have one contractor that really comes to mind. Perfect. I met him five years ago. And he was doing very small, let's call it light commercial projects, mini malls, coffee shops, ⁓ small projects in relation to commercial sized buildings. ⁓ through the years he's come to the training center three times. And as his company grew and his workforce grew, he has some turnover from time to time like most people do. And he's also brought on new employees and retained those existing employees. And so in order to get everybody on the same page doing the same thing, he's repeated his trips to the training center. ⁓ he also asked for a more advanced class. And so what I did is I developed an advanced class for him Where we came through and we did a little tiny roof ⁓ in our training center, but it was extremely complicated. It is just like the mechanical section on a roof. ⁓ so we had four air conditioning units up there, we had we had portable pockets, and we had about 20 pipes up there and all sorts of very difficult details, along with tapered insulation and drains. So those things all combined on a little tiny roof make it very difficult to to work and it's very complicated to get it correct. But he asked for that specific training, the harder, more detailed training so that his guys were ready for a project that was coming up. And this summer they're completing that project. It's a four hundred unit multifamily facility in Wisconsin. That's awesome. That's awesome. They're really growing. Again, another great example of, you know, working with your manufacturer, helping them how you all helping your customers and having that two way communication of this is what I need. Can you provide that? And like, yeah, of course we can and we want to. And it's so cool to have a manufacturer that stands by you and hold ha y you know, has a hand on your back saying, We're gonna do this the hard way so that way when it comes to the real deal It feels like piece of cake. Yeah. And there were for the size project it was the number of phone calls was less than ten so far. Wow. And they are about ninety-five percent complete. So ⁓ it was successful in that regard where the questions were limited, they knew what they had to do going into the job. ⁓ there were some unique construction situations. on it and ⁓ those were those were the few questions I got. And ⁓ we worked through it one at a time. Awesome. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And if I could ⁓ continue on with that story a little bit. ⁓ Chris has has done one training like that and he's got a couple more coming up if I'm not mistaken, Chris. ⁓ but this is something that we talked about when I first started. How how do we go from the basic low slope ⁓ introduction to low slope? How do we go from the one on one, if you will, or what we have, to more of an advanced training? And, you know, just what Chris explained right here, that confirmed that there's a strong demand for us to have that advanced hands on training that simulates a real life ⁓ experience on a roof. You know, our roof decks are built flat, right? 'Cause we're low slope roofing. We've got a flat commercial roof. Right. ⁓ so putting together some opportunities for us to provide them with more challenging roofing and more realistic roofing systems, ⁓ Chris and his and his training team, they really validated that need for us. So that's okay. I'll be attending his next training and and learning a lot, but also ⁓ taking as much information back as I can to start building that content for our advanced training. So I again I learned from these guys, but it also allows me to then ⁓ build better training. I love it. I love it. That's so awesome. It's so cool to see the the you know the the need for that advanced training too, right? People want it and it it means, you know, the jobs are getting a little more complicated. They're selling bigger jobs or something, you know, it just kind of bodes well, right, for all your customers. So it's good to see. thank you both so much for chatting with me. This has been so fun and I hope everyone out there ⁓ goes to the MuleHide Directory on RoofersCoffeeshop dot com to learn more about all their amazing products. Where can people find out more about the training you do, all of your products, all that stuff? Mulehide dot com. And their territory managers are perfect resources. So if they don't know who their territory managers are, they can also find that information out from our website. ⁓ throw in your zip code and your territory manager will pop up for you. I love it. Awesome. Well, again, thank you both so much. Go to MuleHide dot com to learn more or the MuleHide directory on RoofersCoffeeshop dot com to listen to their other podcasts, read articles, all that jazz. And ⁓ thank you for letting me in on the MuleHide trainings, ⁓ secret sauce today. Thank you so much for having us. It was a great time. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. Everyone out there, please go to rooferscoffeeshop dot com to learn more and I'll see all of you next time on the next roofing road trip. If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next roofing road trip.