Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Revealed Racy Love Letters to Killer Dad Chris Watts

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Revealed Racy Love Letters to Killer Dad Chris Watts · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Love ladders, Love ladders to
0:19
Speaker 1: Killer Dad Chris Watts. Yes, love letters. How do these
0:27
Speaker 1: women they want to marry Chris Watts. He's behind bars
0:32
Speaker 1: for life for murdering his two baby girls, his unboard son,
0:37
Speaker 1: and his beautiful wife who was pregnant at the time.
0:41
Speaker 1: Who wants to send him a love letter? Much? Let's
0:43
Speaker 1: send sexy photos of yourself to him. Crime Stories with
0:55
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. It's not just love letters. They are spawning
1:07
Speaker 1: a whole series of conspiracies as to who really murdered Shennan,
1:16
Speaker 1: Bella and Cecie the real and baby Nico the real killer.
1:24
Speaker 1: For those of you that don't remember, who could forget all?
1:28
Speaker 1: You illegal legals know the case as well as we do.
1:31
Speaker 1: Chris Watts, Killer Dad. Listen to my longtime friend Jim Murray.
1:36
Speaker 1: At Inside Edition, the DA revealed gruesome new details about
1:40
Speaker 1: the murders. Thirty three year old Watts strangled his wife.
1:44
Speaker 1: It would have taken up to four minutes to end
1:46
Speaker 1: her life. Then he smothered his two daughters. Four year
1:49
Speaker 1: old Bella fought back as her dad was killing her.
1:52
Speaker 1: Even more shocking, just hours after burying his wife and
1:56
Speaker 1: dumping his daughter's bodies and oil tanks. He was back
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Speaker 1: with his coworkers, acting as if nothing had happened. What
2:04
Speaker 1: kind of a sick freak is that? Of course those
2:07
Speaker 1: are technical legal terms. I've got doctor Bethany Marshall on
2:11
Speaker 1: with me, psychoanalysts to the stars, joining me out of
2:14
Speaker 1: la and starving new hit series on Netflix, Bleeding Empire.
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Speaker 1: I doubt sick freak is in your DSM diagnostic What
2:23
Speaker 1: is DS again? Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder.
2:29
Speaker 1: I hope that's your dog and not one of your patients.
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Speaker 1: That's not that's somebody else's. Okay, Yeah, right, it's your
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Speaker 1: imaginary dog. Okay, doctor Bethy Marshall. Aye to just kick
2:40
Speaker 1: it off with you right there. But I can't believe
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Speaker 1: people are actually writing Chris Watt's love letters now, Joe
2:47
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, let me introduce everybody. Wendy Patteck with me,
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Speaker 1: former California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. She's a star
2:55
Speaker 1: of Today with doctor Wendy k C b Q San Diego,
2:58
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, PhD dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, who I've
3:02
Speaker 1: already attacked Cheryl McCullum, Founder, Director of the Cold Case
3:05
Speaker 1: Research Institute, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
3:11
Speaker 1: Author Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a
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Speaker 1: brand new series, The Piketon Massacre on iHeart It goes
3:18
Speaker 1: on and on. Sheila Eisenberg joining me, the author of
3:23
Speaker 1: Women Who Love Men Who Kill? Volume two. Yes, let
3:30
Speaker 1: it sink in there that many women chasing convicted killers. Okay,
3:38
Speaker 1: you can find that on Amazon or Sheila Isisenberg dot com. Okay,
3:44
Speaker 1: where was I I was going? Oh, Joe Scott Morgan,
3:46
Speaker 1: That's where I was. Joe Scott, could you just give
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Speaker 1: us all a little refresher on how these two little girls,
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Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste or quote D sleeved You know, these
4:07
Speaker 1: two little babies, I welcome to the program. These two
4:12
Speaker 1: little babies were taken and slid through what's referred to
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Speaker 1: as listen to this as a thief hatch, which is
4:21
Speaker 1: a small opening on the top of this gigantic there's
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Speaker 1: two of them, gigantic all retention tanks out in the
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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere in Colorado. After they had been smothered, suffocated,
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Speaker 1: there were stuffed down in there and Nancy, let me
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Speaker 1: tell you that the d sleeving didn't just start with
4:41
Speaker 1: a chemical compound in the bottom of this tank. It
4:45
Speaker 1: started when their dad, I say that it makes me
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Speaker 1: sick to my back teeth, pushed their bodies through this
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Speaker 1: tiny little hole and it actually scraped their bodies. It
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Speaker 1: scraped them. It took off that top layer of skin
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Speaker 1: and the was finished when they nestled down into the
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Speaker 1: substance in the bottom. And this is caustic, Nancy, this
5:08
Speaker 1: is the stuff that they make household cleaners with, and
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Speaker 1: it began to peel the skin off. They're already decommed
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Speaker 1: a dark DARKO. Wasn't that the name? Yeah, that's the
5:19
Speaker 1: name of the oil company where he worked. This is
5:22
Speaker 1: where he worked, right, Yeah it is. And of course
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Speaker 1: this guy has access to it, access an opportunity, right.
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Speaker 1: So let me understand, Let me get this in my mind,
5:33
Speaker 1: and you can only imagine what I would go through
5:35
Speaker 1: trying to get everything in my mind for a jury trial.
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Speaker 1: But I'm trying to imagine Chris Watts after he's already
5:40
Speaker 1: murdered his pregnant wife, Shannan Oh by the way, he
5:43
Speaker 1: had sex with her, then murdered her. Then one daughter
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Speaker 1: comes in and says, what's wrong with mommy? Well she
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Speaker 1: gets killed, but no, I think they were both alive.
5:55
Speaker 1: As he was driving out to an a dark and
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Speaker 1: a darko oil field. And it's my mind, Joe Scott.
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Speaker 1: They're huge cylindrical containers. Why do I think that? Because
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Speaker 1: the opening I think is round and the opening is
6:14
Speaker 1: only like ten inches twelve inches or so. And he
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Speaker 1: goes out there. He's got the dead body of his
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Speaker 1: wife in the car. The two little girls are alive.
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Speaker 1: He smothers one dead with a blanket, and the other
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Speaker 1: one says, are you gonna do to me what you
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Speaker 1: did to my sister? Don't, daddy, don't. He then smothers
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Speaker 1: the other child, Barry Channan in a shallow grape. She
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Speaker 1: has coughin birth, which means she gives birth to baby
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Speaker 1: Nico dead into her underwear. Then he crams one at
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Speaker 1: a time each little girl, Bella and Celeste cec down
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Speaker 1: into the container. But their shoulders are wider than the
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Speaker 1: top to the containers. They cram them down in. Now
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Speaker 1: you pick up. Yeah. Once they're in there, they're nestled
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Speaker 1: down into this caustic substance that's floating in the bottom
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Speaker 1: of the tank. You know, shenanis like you said, she's
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Speaker 1: buried in a shallow grave. But he took the time
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Speaker 1: to get on top of these things, and you have
7:25
Speaker 1: to get on top of them to access this climb
7:28
Speaker 1: the ladder with the bodies. You're thinking about this, or
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Speaker 1: he's forgive me, he's thinking about this. He has to
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Speaker 1: be as he's going up there. He's going there with
7:36
Speaker 1: the purpose carrying the dead, bring his children, his babies,
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Speaker 1: his daughter, and he is depositing them down into this tank. Nancy.
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Speaker 1: It is absolutely beyond the pale of anything in this
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Speaker 1: case has probably affected me more than anything I've ever
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Speaker 1: covered with you, because we talked about it for so long.
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Speaker 1: But the longer we went, the more I see in
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Speaker 1: this because I cannot fathom I can't plumb the depths
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Speaker 1: of this kind of evening those openings. Jackie is telling me,
8:09
Speaker 1: we're only eight inches wide, so he had to force
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Speaker 1: them down. And while they're down in that crude oil tanker,
8:19
Speaker 1: the skin on their arms actually comes off. That's what
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Speaker 1: d sleeving means. Now, that's all. I don't want to
8:29
Speaker 1: go into more of the gruesome facts surrounding their murders.
8:33
Speaker 1: My point is, who are these nuts that are in
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Speaker 1: love with him? Take a listen to our friends at
8:40
Speaker 1: ABC seven. Convicted wife killer Chris Watts receiving love letters
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Speaker 1: from women in prison. Prosecutors releasing dozens of letters sent
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Speaker 1: to the thirty three year old, one woman writing in
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Speaker 1: my heart, I know you are a great guy. Another
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Speaker 1: woman sent Wats a photo of herself in a bikini.
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Speaker 1: Wat's admitted to killing his pregnant wife and their two
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Speaker 1: little girls. He's serving three life sentences. Earlier this month,
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Speaker 1: Watts was moved from a prison in Colorado to one
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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin for safety reasons. Wendy Patcheck, California prosecutor author
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Speaker 1: red Flags, moved for safety reasons for his own safety.
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Speaker 1: Even the other inmates want to kill him. When we
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Speaker 1: see notorious killers like this, Nancy, it is true that
9:24
Speaker 1: safety reasons can in fact include their own safety, and
9:28
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that state agrees to how somebody,
9:31
Speaker 1: they also agree to protect them. Although we often don't
9:34
Speaker 1: know all of what goes on behind the scenes that
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Speaker 1: leads somebody to be moved for safety reasons, we do
9:39
Speaker 1: know that it happened here with this inmates. Yeah, Chris
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Speaker 1: Watts had to be moved out of state to another penitentiary,
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Speaker 1: another CI correctional institution because his life was in danger.
9:51
Speaker 1: Even the other inmates want to kill him. But these
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Speaker 1: women are in love with him and quote, no, deep
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Speaker 1: down in my heart, you are a good No, he's
10:01
Speaker 1: not a good guy. Take a listen to our friends
10:03
Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. His crimes were unspeakable, the murders of
10:07
Speaker 1: his pregnant wife and two little daughters. Yet thirty three
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Speaker 1: year old Chris Watts is actually receiving love letters. In
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Speaker 1: my heart, you're a great guy, writes a woman named Candice.
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Speaker 1: If you do write me back, I'd be the happiest
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Speaker 1: girl alive, that's for sure. She signed off with hashtags
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Speaker 1: team Chris, Chris is innocent, love him and so cute.
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Speaker 1: Another woman named Tatiana wrote, I found myself thinking a
10:32
Speaker 1: lot about you. That's a photo of herself in a bikini.
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Speaker 1: A woman named Kim wrote, I'm hoping to brighten your days.
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Speaker 1: Hannah wrote Chris Watt's name in flowery calligraphy and told
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Speaker 1: him I feel this connection to you. Many of the
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Speaker 1: letters which were released by prosecutors are signed with hearts
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Speaker 1: and x's and oh's for hugs and kissies. Time Stories
11:04
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace ChIL Eisenberg joining me, the author of
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Speaker 1: Women Who Love Men Who Kill Volume two. Hashtag Chris
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Speaker 1: is innocent? No, he is not innocent. He didn't have
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Speaker 1: a trial, he pled guilty under oath, he admitted he's guilty.
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Speaker 1: Is not innocent deep deep down inside? Who are these people?
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Speaker 1: Chris wats Who's clearly guilty. There's no question about that.
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Speaker 1: And he's just one in a long line of notorious
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Speaker 1: and heinous murderers who attract the attention of women. And
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Speaker 1: there are many, many people like him. For example, Ted
11:46
Speaker 1: Bundy had groupies in court when he was on trial,
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Speaker 1: and he married one of them, Carol Boone, and he
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Speaker 1: had a child with her. So the question you're asking
12:00
Speaker 1: is why. And I've spent thirty years asking that question
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Speaker 1: and answering it, and it's really not that complicated. For years,
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Speaker 1: obsessive fans of celebrities have tried to get in touch
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Speaker 1: with them, and they've written love letters. And ask yourself,
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Speaker 1: who's going to answer your love letter? Prince Charles back
12:26
Speaker 1: in the day, or George Clooney today or Chris Watts.
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Speaker 1: Chris Watts is going to answer your love letter. Right, So,
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Speaker 1: if you want to be famous and you want your
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Speaker 1: name in the paper, you're going to write to a
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Speaker 1: convicted serial killer, or, in the case of Watts, a
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Speaker 1: man guilty of familicide, which means killing your whole family.
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Speaker 1: And just by the way, serial killers like Ted Bundy
12:52
Speaker 1: are no longer what we hear about. We hear about
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Speaker 1: mass murderers, people who do one large event into one
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Speaker 1: large killing, and they're the ones who get all the attention. Nancy,
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Speaker 1: if I could jump in, who doctor Bethany Marshall? Sorry, yes,
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Speaker 1: I was just coming to you because Sheila isenbar Are,
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Speaker 1: the author of Women Who Love Men Who Kill? Volumes
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Speaker 1: one and two has a huge long list. So these
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Speaker 1: women are not isolated in their bizarre fixation. What is it?
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Speaker 1: There's actually a clinical name. Well, yes, we know. What
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Speaker 1: Sheila just now said. I thought was brilliant is that
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Speaker 1: they are not so different from fanatics who fall in
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Speaker 1: love with celebrities. That there are some similar features, but
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Speaker 1: I think it's a little hottle deeper than that. There's
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Speaker 1: a lot of research that goes into understanding women who
13:51
Speaker 1: fall in love with men behind bars, and one of
13:54
Speaker 1: the ideas is that some of them have grown up
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Speaker 1: in violent households. They fuse power, aggression, and love as
14:04
Speaker 1: if those three things are one and the same. They
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Speaker 1: always know where their guy is. I mean, imagine, for
14:12
Speaker 1: most of us in love relationships, we have to tolerate
14:15
Speaker 1: that our spouses are desirable and out in the world
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Speaker 1: and meeting other people, and we have to trust, we
14:21
Speaker 1: have to not be jealous, we have to not control them,
14:24
Speaker 1: and many of us may work on that throughout the lifespan.
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Speaker 1: But these women have the fantasy that they know where
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Speaker 1: their guy is at all times. He's behind bars, he's
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Speaker 1: thinking about me, he's writing love letters. Oh, by the way,
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Speaker 1: he's not cheating on me, he's not having sex with
14:43
Speaker 1: anybody because I know where he is. They imagine that
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Speaker 1: these men have no sexual life behind bars. I mean,
14:50
Speaker 1: that's a huge fantasy. And Nancy, there's so much to say,
14:53
Speaker 1: but I love this one prison study where they interviewed
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Speaker 1: women men who were in love with men behind bars.
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Speaker 1: None of the women had read the court pleadings, the
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Speaker 1: court files, or knew the guy's rap sheet. They didn't
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Speaker 1: want to know. They had complete blinders on. So in
15:14
Speaker 1: some ways, these women are like control freaks on steroids.
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Speaker 1: That's the clinical term. They want to control the narrative
15:23
Speaker 1: about the man who they think they love. So despite
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Speaker 1: the fact that the man is a heinous killer like
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Speaker 1: Chris Watts, they're telling themselves, Oh, he's misunderstood, he's innocent.
15:35
Speaker 1: But think about how grandiose these women are. They're controlling
15:39
Speaker 1: the narrative about the man behind bars despite what society,
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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, the judge, everybody else is saying. They okay
15:49
Speaker 1: to no better guys. There is a mental condition call hybristaphilia.
15:58
Speaker 1: Hybrista Philia is actually the sex attraction to someone who
16:05
Speaker 1: has committed outrageous and gruesome crimes. It is a recognized
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Speaker 1: mental ailment. It does not rise to insanity hybristophilia. And
16:19
Speaker 1: doctor bethany I believe you said that a study was
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Speaker 1: done of these women that write love letters and many,
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Speaker 1: if not most of them had not read their love
16:29
Speaker 1: objects record. They didn't even really know that much about
16:32
Speaker 1: the g An actual study was done. It was a
16:36
Speaker 1: prison study. And actually in this study they interviewed prison guards.
16:42
Speaker 1: Because the prison guards were the ones who were talking
16:46
Speaker 1: to these women when they went in to visit the killers.
16:49
Speaker 1: So it was very interesting. It wasn't necessarily just the
16:52
Speaker 1: study of the women, but the prison staff around these women.
16:58
Speaker 1: And one of the women in particular was Richard Ramirez,
17:02
Speaker 1: the night Stranglers. That what he was called, the Night's Talker,
17:05
Speaker 1: the night ran doctor, the nights talker. Yes, so he
17:11
Speaker 1: had a woman who fell in love with him while
17:14
Speaker 1: he was behind bars, and she knew nothing about the crime.
17:19
Speaker 1: Women who love men who kill. We are now learning
17:25
Speaker 1: that killer dad Chris Watts is getting an avalanche of
17:31
Speaker 1: prison letters from women and men he professed their love
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Speaker 1: for him, even sending sexy photos, bikini photos and more.
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Speaker 1: But let's don't forget who Chris Watts really is. Take
17:46
Speaker 1: a listen. Chilling new secrets are being revealed about Chris Watts,
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Speaker 1: the dad who brutally killed his pregnant wife and their
17:53
Speaker 1: two adorable daughters. Daddy, is that he did? He admit
17:58
Speaker 1: to you that he murdered his family. He absolutely did.
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Speaker 1: Sherylyne Catle was fascinated by the case and started exchanging
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Speaker 1: letters with Watts. Eventually she started visiting him at a
18:10
Speaker 1: maximum security prison in Wisconsin. She spoke with Anne mccogliano.
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Speaker 1: What was it like to meet him in person? Very surreal.
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Speaker 1: At times when he would talk about the murders, his
18:22
Speaker 1: eyes would turn so the wack. He just would get
18:25
Speaker 1: a different look on his face. And he talked about
18:27
Speaker 1: it so nonchalantly, like you know, going down to get
18:30
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. Watts letters are filled with shocking
18:33
Speaker 1: confessions he never told the FBI, including that he had
18:37
Speaker 1: planned the murders for weeks. You are hearing our friends
18:40
Speaker 1: at Insight Edition. Take a listen to more. He'd secretly
18:44
Speaker 1: given his wife the painkiller OxyContin to end her pregnancy.
18:48
Speaker 1: He thought that would make it easier to leave her
18:51
Speaker 1: to be with his mistress, Nicole Cassenger. The reason the
18:54
Speaker 1: medical examiner found oxyconton and Shannon's system is because I
18:58
Speaker 1: gave it to her. I thought it would be easier
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Speaker 1: to be with Nicole if Nan wasn't pregnant. He was
19:04
Speaker 1: very mesmerized by her. He just said in his letters
19:08
Speaker 1: that had it not been for her and the power
19:10
Speaker 1: that she had over him, she pulled at him constantly.
19:14
Speaker 1: So even now he is blaming his victims, his wife
19:18
Speaker 1: and his two little girls. Joining me, Sheila Issenberg author
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Speaker 1: of Women Who Love Men Who Kill Volume two on Amazon,
19:26
Speaker 1: Sheila Way in, Yeah, I'd like to talk about a
19:30
Speaker 1: few things. First of all, there's two different types of
19:33
Speaker 1: women writing love letters and getting involved with men who kill.
19:38
Speaker 1: There's what I call the garden variety killers. The guy
19:41
Speaker 1: who's committed murder and nobody knows about him. He's in prison,
19:45
Speaker 1: serving his life sentence, and a woman gets involved with him.
19:49
Speaker 1: And she is involved because she has had a traumatic childhood.
19:55
Speaker 1: She's been abused by her father, her uncle buddy in
20:00
Speaker 1: her childhood and earlier relationship. She's been sexually abused, physically abused,
20:05
Speaker 1: psychologically abused, and for her, this guy in prison is
20:09
Speaker 1: a safe relationship. He's behind bars, she always knows where
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Speaker 1: he is, and she's in control for the first time
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Speaker 1: in her life. So that's the garden variety relationship. Also,
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Speaker 1: I just want to address the fact that there's no
20:25
Speaker 1: sex usually involved in these relationships. The man in prison,
20:29
Speaker 1: the prisoner puts her on a pedestal, He writes her
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Speaker 1: love letters, poetry, paints pictures of her, and she feels
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Speaker 1: elevated and loved and romanticized to the first time in
20:41
Speaker 1: her life. In addition, she doesn't care about his rap sheet.
20:45
Speaker 1: As someone said, she doesn't believe he's guilty. She's convinced
20:50
Speaker 1: that he's innocent. He usually finds guards, he becomes a Christian,
20:54
Speaker 1: he's a good man. There's a million different stories and
20:57
Speaker 1: million different ways of looking at it, and I've interviewed
21:02
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of women who fit this profile. Then
21:05
Speaker 1: there's the flip side of the coin. There's the woman
21:08
Speaker 1: who's in love with the Chris Watts kind of a killer.
21:11
Speaker 1: His name is in the papers, he's famous, he's notorious.
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Speaker 1: Everyone knows what he did. That woman also probably had
21:20
Speaker 1: an abusive past, but she wants something else. She doesn't
21:24
Speaker 1: just want control. She wants to be famous. She wants
21:28
Speaker 1: to be known because, as a famous author once said,
21:32
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be known, and everybody wants their fifteen
21:35
Speaker 1: minutes of fame. So we have two different kinds of
21:38
Speaker 1: things going on with women who love men who kill.
21:42
Speaker 1: And I just want to also deal with the word hybristophilia.
21:45
Speaker 1: I have never found in anything in any women that
21:49
Speaker 1: I interviewed that they were sexually attracted to violence. As
21:53
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, they all, even the ones who
21:56
Speaker 1: are in love with the serial killers like Carol Anne
22:01
Speaker 1: Carol Anne Boone who married Ted Bundy. She believed he
22:05
Speaker 1: was innocent, even though she sat through his trial and
22:08
Speaker 1: she had a child with him, and she married him.
22:11
Speaker 1: When she finally was convinced that he was guilty, she
22:14
Speaker 1: divorced him and every series. My understanding that hybristophelia is
22:21
Speaker 1: the attraction to someone who has committed gruesome crimes, right,
22:27
Speaker 1: Not the attraction to the gruesome nature of the crimes,
22:32
Speaker 1: not attracted to violence itself. Attracted to this person, yes,
22:37
Speaker 1: But who has I admitted these great doctor John Money,
22:41
Speaker 1: psychiatrists psychologists coined the Turn the late doctor John Money.
22:45
Speaker 1: I interviewed him to the first volume of Women Who
22:48
Speaker 1: Are Man Kill? But I have never found any evidence
22:51
Speaker 1: of youth Nancy interesting crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
23:08
Speaker 1: we are talking about women that love guys behind bars
23:14
Speaker 1: have committed horrible crimes. In this case, we're talking about
23:17
Speaker 1: killer Dad Chris Watts. Take a listen to Angie Harmon's
23:22
Speaker 1: Salemate Secrets. In Letters to Cherylyn, Chris writes how he
23:26
Speaker 1: carefully planned out the murders and reveals the tragic details
23:30
Speaker 1: step by step. On August ninth, twenty eighteen, Shanan goes
23:35
Speaker 1: away on business, and that's when Watts decides it's time
23:38
Speaker 1: to free himself a family constraints. The night Shanana said
23:45
Speaker 1: to return, Watts puts his premeditated plan in motion. He
23:50
Speaker 1: told me that he knew that was the last time
23:52
Speaker 1: he would ever tuck his babies in. Then, around two am,
23:57
Speaker 1: Shannan comes home from her trip. What's admits to having
24:01
Speaker 1: sex with Chanan. To disarm her, he leaves the room, and,
24:08
Speaker 1: unbeknowns to Chanan, he goes to the girl's room to
24:11
Speaker 1: smother them, purportedly because he doesn't want them to hear
24:14
Speaker 1: him murder their mother. According to Chris's letter to Sherlyn,
24:19
Speaker 1: he doesn't tell Shanan about his affair, only that he
24:22
Speaker 1: no longer loves her. There we hear what Chris Watts
24:27
Speaker 1: is telling at least one person. He fully confesses it. Again,
24:31
Speaker 1: Wat's play guilty as not as if he were railroaded
24:35
Speaker 1: at trial. One of the dangerous aspects of these love
24:40
Speaker 1: letters is that they are spawning conspiracies that Chris Watts
24:44
Speaker 1: is innocent and that someone else is responsible for the murders.
24:49
Speaker 1: Take those to our cut. Seven from sellmate Secrets. I'm
24:53
Speaker 1: Chris Ricello, and I met Chris Watts from writing to
24:56
Speaker 1: him in prison. I've never seen a case in history
24:59
Speaker 1: that somebody took a plea agreement so quickly a case
25:02
Speaker 1: was completely ended and not investigated. And there's all these
25:07
Speaker 1: different theories because normally this would be going on in
25:09
Speaker 1: a trial for years, and it was only two months
25:12
Speaker 1: to this plea agreement, and that's what caught me. Prisons
25:16
Speaker 1: are familiar territory for the forty two year old former
25:19
Speaker 1: prison psychologist who recalls visiting her incarcerated father when she
25:23
Speaker 1: was a child. It makes me feel more comfortable with inmates,
25:27
Speaker 1: and then being a clinical psychologist, I would work in
25:30
Speaker 1: the prisons, so I would see the inside of it. However,
25:33
Speaker 1: Krista admits that being intrigued by famous criminals is in
25:37
Speaker 1: her DNA. My mother was always fascinated with Charles Manson
25:41
Speaker 1: from when she was younger. I do think my mom
25:44
Speaker 1: was drawn to my dad because he looked so much
25:46
Speaker 1: like him. Before she met my father, she was on
25:50
Speaker 1: her way to go to the Manson family to live
25:52
Speaker 1: on the ranch of Charles Manson, and then she saw
25:54
Speaker 1: my dad, and my dad saw her and they just
25:57
Speaker 1: hit it off. It's pretty interesting because my mom did
26:00
Speaker 1: stand up for Charles Manson through all that, and I'm
26:04
Speaker 1: standing up for Chris. Watch guys, we are talking about
26:07
Speaker 1: women who seemingly fall in love with guys behind bars
26:10
Speaker 1: that have committed Hainah's crimes. This is by far not
26:14
Speaker 1: the first time it's happened. Is quite the phenomena danger.
26:19
Speaker 1: They come up with all sorts of half caught conspiracy
26:22
Speaker 1: theories about who is the real killer. Wendy Patrick joining me,
26:26
Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, jump in. I actually
26:32
Speaker 1: have a whole chapter on this in my book Red Flags,
26:35
Speaker 1: and no doubt if I went back and read it,
26:37
Speaker 1: I probably quote people like Sheila. But one of the
26:40
Speaker 1: things that I distinguished between because I have researched it
26:43
Speaker 1: and prosecuted this type of crime. Also in terms of
26:46
Speaker 1: women that you'll break boundaries where they're supposed to be
26:49
Speaker 1: working at the prison and get involved with inmates, is
26:52
Speaker 1: the fact that some of them do believe that these
26:55
Speaker 1: men are guilty. In fact, a chapter is called you
26:57
Speaker 1: know when a wolf looks like a wolf. In other words,
27:00
Speaker 1: there isn't a red flag in warning. This is why
27:03
Speaker 1: the person is dangerous, being desirable, and I wonder whether
27:08
Speaker 1: or not. I know, our psychologists on the panel may
27:11
Speaker 1: may have ideas too, But there's this idea that this
27:14
Speaker 1: woman understands this man she's the only one that can
27:17
Speaker 1: fix some She understands that she is in a sense
27:21
Speaker 1: vicariously joined to the crime that of course she would
27:26
Speaker 1: never commit. And that would be a very different reason
27:29
Speaker 1: for becoming involved with a dangerous kill. And not because
27:32
Speaker 1: you think he's innocent, but because you know he's guilty.
27:35
Speaker 1: And I wonder whether because Chris Wats pled guilty so
27:38
Speaker 1: quickly that that isn't the type of woman that somebody
27:41
Speaker 1: like him would attract. I mean, Joscott Morgan, his guilty
27:44
Speaker 1: play came quickly because he was caught dead in the water.
27:49
Speaker 1: I mean he is saying the nan and the children
27:54
Speaker 1: are saying going in the home. Then he is saying,
27:56
Speaker 1: leaving the home after packing up, they well, it's her body,
28:02
Speaker 1: Shann's body in the car. It's caught on the neighbor's
28:05
Speaker 1: surveillance video. His description of what he did to the
28:08
Speaker 1: children's bodies is completely consistent with the discovery of their
28:13
Speaker 1: bodies and those oil tankers and his wife buried in
28:16
Speaker 1: his shallow grave, with having delivered baby Nico in death.
28:21
Speaker 1: I mean, how can his confession under oath, I might add,
28:27
Speaker 1: he pled guilty under oath to these facts be so
28:30
Speaker 1: consistent and fit perfectly with the facts. If it's a lie,
28:36
Speaker 1: it's overwhelming evidence. Nancy. The one thing, my one regret
28:42
Speaker 1: about this whole thing, when he was sitting in that
28:45
Speaker 1: courtroom and I watched this from beginning to end, is
28:49
Speaker 1: that the judge did not compel him to alocute. Because
28:54
Speaker 1: now you've got all of these people for years and
28:56
Speaker 1: years and years that are going to be grieving with
29:00
Speaker 1: hearts because they don't know precisely what happened. The truth
29:03
Speaker 1: is painful, but sometimes the truth is one of the
29:07
Speaker 1: best medicines that is out there for people that need
29:10
Speaker 1: to recover. He is selfish to the end. Oh and
29:13
Speaker 1: let me tell you one more thing about miss psychologist
29:16
Speaker 1: who says that she's spent she understands time in the penitentiary.
29:21
Speaker 1: I could care less. Let me tell you where she's
29:24
Speaker 1: never spending any time. She's never spending any time at
29:27
Speaker 1: a death scene. She's never spending any time in the more.
29:31
Speaker 1: She hasn't looked at the remnant of what these animals
29:34
Speaker 1: leave behind. What he did to these kids, what he
29:37
Speaker 1: did to his wife, what he did to his unborn children,
29:40
Speaker 1: his unborn child is absolutely horrific and people need to
29:46
Speaker 1: be reminded of that. Speaking of Christa Mitchella, take a
29:51
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Lifetime. One entertaining topic of
29:54
Speaker 1: conversation is the oftentimes bizarre fan mail Chris receives. I
29:59
Speaker 1: know stranger, but I care about you and your Situationously
30:02
Speaker 1: have one of the kindest faces I've ever seen. Some reason,
30:05
Speaker 1: I find myself caring about how you're I want to
30:07
Speaker 1: know you so bad it's not even fun. I just
30:10
Speaker 1: want to be your friend and let you know you're
30:12
Speaker 1: not alone. However, in May twenty twenty, there's one particular
30:21
Speaker 1: letter that Chris doesn't throw away. It's from Christa Riccillo.
30:27
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give him hope and not to
30:28
Speaker 1: give up, because I just felt he was holding something
30:31
Speaker 1: in Did you include anything other than just the letter
30:36
Speaker 1: when you wrote Chris? When I wrote Chris, um, I
30:38
Speaker 1: put a picture in myself in so he knew what
30:40
Speaker 1: I looked like, just to know I wasn't you know,
30:43
Speaker 1: just some crazy girl, but I did. I put up
30:46
Speaker 1: it was the three page letter and I put a
30:47
Speaker 1: picture in. It works in getting Chris Watt's attention. Crime
31:04
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, the spawning of conspiracy theories by
31:11
Speaker 1: these women who insist that he is innocent are actually
31:18
Speaker 1: proven to become a danger. The family of Shenan Watts
31:24
Speaker 1: has been trolled and attacked and mistreated. Take a listen
31:28
Speaker 1: to our cut twelve Dylan Thomas, CBS four. Frank Russi
31:32
Speaker 1: tells me that the cyber bullying around this case has
31:35
Speaker 1: been relentless since the murders about eleven months ago, so
31:38
Speaker 1: bad that he's even gone to law enforcement and lawmakers
31:41
Speaker 1: seeking help, but has had no assistance. So now he's
31:44
Speaker 1: here in Colorado asking CBS four viewers to help him
31:47
Speaker 1: stop the trolls. I can't possibly describe how painful the
31:52
Speaker 1: last eleven months have been. How does one cope with
31:55
Speaker 1: the murders of their child and grandchildren? Just dealing with
32:00
Speaker 1: this type of tragedy is more than a family should bear.
32:03
Speaker 1: Almost one year has passed since Chris Watts murdered his
32:06
Speaker 1: pregnant wife in their Frederick home, later killing his own
32:09
Speaker 1: daughters Bella and Cecy as well. Since the murder, NaN's family,
32:14
Speaker 1: led by father Frank Rusik, has been under attack and
32:17
Speaker 1: the most vicious ways you can't imagine, intense cyber bullying
32:22
Speaker 1: by fans of the murderer and trolls around the world England, Philippines, Australia.
32:29
Speaker 1: It's not fair to these victims. We don't deserve it.
32:31
Speaker 1: NaN's family finally having to speak out having been treated
32:35
Speaker 1: so badly because many of these conspiracy theories that Chris
32:40
Speaker 1: Watts is innocent focus on Nan, the murder victim. Remember
32:46
Speaker 1: the mom who had coughin birth after her murder, she
32:49
Speaker 1: gives birth to her baby boy, Nico. She was looking
32:52
Speaker 1: so forward to they're blaming her among other theories. Well,
32:58
Speaker 1: maybe the theory are spawned by others who refuse to
33:03
Speaker 1: believe Chris Watts is in fact a killer. Take a
33:07
Speaker 1: listen to our cut nine WTV. Chris Watts might have
33:11
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to all nine counts against him last week
33:14
Speaker 1: in a Colorado courtroom, but his family says there are
33:17
Speaker 1: still unanswered questions about the case. I want the truth.
33:21
Speaker 1: I do want the truth to come out. I don't
33:24
Speaker 1: want this to happen to anyone else. You know, He's
33:29
Speaker 1: he was normal, He was the a normal kid, and
33:34
Speaker 1: I just I don't know what happened. Chanan's family responded
33:41
Speaker 1: to the Watts family interview today, insisting they made quote vicious, grotesque,
33:46
Speaker 1: and utterly false statements about Chanan. Watts's family said they
33:50
Speaker 1: believe the version of events laid out in the initial
33:52
Speaker 1: affidavit that the only reason their son killed Channan was
33:56
Speaker 1: because he had seen her strangling their children. What happened
33:59
Speaker 1: to that from Pine Forest High School? Well, what happened
34:03
Speaker 1: to that Kim from Pine Forest High School? He met Chanan?
34:06
Speaker 1: That's what happened to him. Bethanie Marshall, How is this happening?
34:12
Speaker 1: He confessed he murdered Shennan. He confessed to murdering his
34:17
Speaker 1: own children so he could be with his lover. How
34:21
Speaker 1: can Chris Watt's family blame Nan? Nancy? Let me out
34:26
Speaker 1: another theory about women who fall in love with men
34:28
Speaker 1: behind bars. They harbor secret aggression towards the victims they are.
34:35
Speaker 1: These women are not so nice, they do spunk. We
34:38
Speaker 1: think of them as both their meek and mild, and
34:41
Speaker 1: they fall in love with somebody behind bars because they
34:44
Speaker 1: don't know any better. Nancy, the opposite is really true.
34:48
Speaker 1: These women are not nice women. They lorded over the
34:52
Speaker 1: victims families. They lorded over the victim of Reading Malloy,
34:56
Speaker 1: who's one of my favorite forensic psychologists, talks about the
35:00
Speaker 1: that these women take secret satisfaction in the nature of
35:05
Speaker 1: the man's crimes. So think about Shennan's family. They're being
35:10
Speaker 1: re victimized by the women who are in love with
35:16
Speaker 1: killer dad. There was a famous story, I think it
35:18
Speaker 1: was twenty years ago about a prison nurse who actually
35:22
Speaker 1: fell in love with a man behind bars tried to
35:25
Speaker 1: get him out of jail by shooting to prison guards.
35:28
Speaker 1: So don't let's let's not prelude ourselves into thinking these
35:32
Speaker 1: women just like they they fall they're seduced by these criminals.
35:38
Speaker 1: These women are are bad people themselves. I don't I
35:42
Speaker 1: don't agree. I don't agree. I don't think you can
35:45
Speaker 1: lump them all into the category of being bad women.
35:49
Speaker 1: I mean, I've interviewed women who are nurses, journalists, college professors,
35:56
Speaker 1: they were arranged with people. I'm sure there is from
35:58
Speaker 1: bad ones in there, but I think it's they're not
36:01
Speaker 1: bad necessarily or good. I think it goes deeper than that.
36:05
Speaker 1: I think these are all women who've been damaged themselves
36:08
Speaker 1: in their own lives, damaged by the way they were
36:12
Speaker 1: treated by parents' fathers, first husband's boyfriends, and they are
36:18
Speaker 1: so damaged that they seek relationships that you and I
36:22
Speaker 1: might look at and say, why are they crazy? And
36:26
Speaker 1: the truth is they're not crazy. They are looking. I
36:31
Speaker 1: think it's easy to see the men, the criminals, as
36:34
Speaker 1: bad and the women is pure and innocent. I think
36:37
Speaker 1: that's a problem we have in our not to let
36:40
Speaker 1: okay ladies. I just want to say that anyone that
36:46
Speaker 1: supports a theory blaming a murder victim like Shannan Watts,
36:53
Speaker 1: I find that to be cruel, hateful, irresponsible, and hurtful. Cruel, hateful, irresponsible, hurtful.
37:07
Speaker 1: How do you think Chananne Watts's family feels with all
37:12
Speaker 1: of these women blaming Shenan for her own death and
37:15
Speaker 1: the desert her little girls, her unboard son. Do I
37:21
Speaker 1: want anyone abused, No? Do I want anyone mistreated? No?
37:27
Speaker 1: But I do not condone conspiracy theories that hurt the
37:31
Speaker 1: victim's family. Period. Listen to wt V D R cut
37:39
Speaker 1: Ten that boy he knew what he wanted to do.
37:42
Speaker 1: He went to NASCAR Technical Institute. It has been a nightmare,
37:47
Speaker 1: a complete nightmare. It has been so overwhelming, and I
37:52
Speaker 1: feel like I have to do something to help my
37:56
Speaker 1: son to I just I need to do something. If
38:00
Speaker 1: he's not going to fight, I want to fight for him.
38:04
Speaker 1: The Watts family, he told me, they felt Channan was
38:07
Speaker 1: dangerous that they didn't even go to the couple's wedding.
38:09
Speaker 1: In fact, they believed that Chris knewe was going to
38:11
Speaker 1: get life in prison for killing his wife and the
38:13
Speaker 1: disposing of the girl's body. So this is why he
38:16
Speaker 1: confessed to all nine count San's family said quote, her
38:19
Speaker 1: memory and reputation deserves to be protected, and her family
38:23
Speaker 1: is fully prepared to do so. Let me close with
38:27
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics death investigator who has
38:32
Speaker 1: investigated literally thousands of homicides. Jo Scott Morgan explained to
38:39
Speaker 1: me how Chris Watt's confession fits perfectly with not one
38:47
Speaker 1: inconsistency with the forensic evidence of the three murders. It
38:53
Speaker 1: fits perfectly, Nancy, because we can marry up. First off,
38:57
Speaker 1: the most graphic of all of all of these little
39:02
Speaker 1: points along this continuum, the rate of decomposition that was
39:06
Speaker 1: involved in these bodies, how it was expressed or are
39:10
Speaker 1: sped up as a result of him dumping these poor
39:14
Speaker 1: little children into these vats out in the middle of
39:18
Speaker 1: this wilderness, Nancy. And we can also look at the
39:21
Speaker 1: evidence that was left behind when he very quickly dug
39:25
Speaker 1: the shallow grave and deposited this woman that he had
39:29
Speaker 1: actually created life with into this grave and then covered
39:33
Speaker 1: her up, the degree to which her body had been
39:36
Speaker 1: decomposed compared to the daughters themselves. And then you have
39:40
Speaker 1: this timeline relative to him being seen on the camera
39:45
Speaker 1: and then being able to track him out to this
39:48
Speaker 1: specific location that he and only fellow co workers would
39:53
Speaker 1: have access to, and then you begin to look at
39:56
Speaker 1: his behaviors. I think one of the things that really
39:58
Speaker 1: stands out, and I'll close with this is that image
40:01
Speaker 1: of him standing on the front porch. And you know,
40:04
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, you know, I'm sure has seen this as well.
40:07
Speaker 1: When he's out there and he's self soothing on the
40:10
Speaker 1: porch where he has his hands wrapped around his own
40:14
Speaker 1: shoulders and he's rubbing himself and he's comforting himself while
40:18
Speaker 1: he's talking on air and they're asking him very specifically,
40:22
Speaker 1: you know, about where his kids are, where his family is,
40:25
Speaker 1: and he's saying, all I want is for them to
40:28
Speaker 1: come home. Well, they're not coming home, Chris, because you
40:30
Speaker 1: know where they were. They were stuffed away into these
40:34
Speaker 1: holding tanks. Your wife was buried in the dirt all
40:37
Speaker 1: along with your unborn child. Misplaced love for a killer
40:43
Speaker 1: behind bars is one thing spawning conspiracy theories about who
40:49
Speaker 1: really did the crime. As yet another, Chris Watts murdered
40:56
Speaker 1: his wife and children. Any One who suggests otherwise is
41:04
Speaker 1: having tea with the devil Nancy Grace Crimes story. Signing off,
41:11
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,