Latest / Silver FM 100.6 / No, it's not too early to start saving for the holidays

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No, it's not too early to start saving for the holidays · Silver FM 100.6

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is Ira Glass.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: On This American Life, we tell stories about when things change.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Like for this guy, David, whose entire life took a sharp, unexpected,
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: and very unpleasant turn.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: And it did take me a while to realize it's
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: basically because the monkey pressed the button.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Because the monkey pressed the button. Surprising stories every week,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: You're listening to Life Kit. I'm Mariel Cigarra. Now, if
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: I'm you, maybe I'm thinking budgeting for the holidays. It's
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: a little early, don't you think? The pumpkins and the
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: skeletons haven't even come out yet. But when I asked
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: this very question to accredited financial counselor Bethel Hapti, she
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: said a hard no.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: It's always a good time to think about future spending,
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: especially because you can do a lot more when you
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: have more time.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Let me just set a goal here for us. Knowing
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: what we know about credit card debt, how high those
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: interest rates are, how the debt can snowball, let's plan
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: ahead so we don't accumulate debt in December that we'll
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: have to pay off in 2027.
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: That is the ideal scenario, is that the money that
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: you're spending is just the money that you're spending instead
• 1:17
  Speaker 5: of the money you're spending plus interest to credit card
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: companies in January and February.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: On this episode of Life Kit, how to create a
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: holiday spending plan now. Starting with takeaway one, get a baseline.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Bethel says a lot of the people she talks to
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: don't actually know how much money they bring home every
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: month after taxes and health insurance premiums and retirement contributions.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: So that's the first number you want to know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: That pot of money per month. And then I think
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: even fewer people beyond that know the amount that they
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: need to run their life. Rent, transportation, those fixed expenses,
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: but also those variable expenses that are pretty consistently high
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: and necessary. Daycare, groceries.
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Also include any debt payments. And that's your second number,
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: the bare minimum you spend on necessities. Then you're going
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: to do the math. The big pot of money minus
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: the second number. Okay, what's left?
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: That's the number that you'll be able to use for
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: your fund spending, discretionary spending in the month, or that's
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: the money that will go towards savings. So creating... Even
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: that rough and tumble baseline budget is like really important.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: Now you've got about three months, a little more, to
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: save up for the holidays. So multiply that number by three.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: That's how much you're working with. And that's how much
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: you can afford to budget for holiday expenses, including travel, gifts,
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: seasonal activities, you know, a little sleigh ride, and hosting gatherings.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: It's a bit of an overestimate though, because you also
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: need to consider the non-necessities that you're already spending money on.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: You probably don't want to skip out on everything that's
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: fun for three months just to ball out over the holidays.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: But maybe you do. That is up to you. Now
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: let's get a little more information by doing a retrospective.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: Look back at your credit card and bank statements and
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: figure out how much money you spent on the holidays
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: last year. Can you afford to spend that much again
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: without taking on debt? Also consider what did you spend
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: the money on? And how do you feel now about
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: having spent money on those things?
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: How happy were you with those purchases? Like, were those
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: expenditures actually aligned with how you want to spend in
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: the holiday season?
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, takeaway two, spread out your holiday expenses. As we
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: talked about, one way to do this is to start
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: saving money now that you can use on holiday gifts
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: and travel and events come late November, December. If you're
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: currently setting aside money in a savings account, You might
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: just label some of it differently. You know, this is
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: for holiday spending. Chidozi Ibubuchi is a financial therapist and
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: gave us this advice in an episode about saving up
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: for big events like a friend's wedding.
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: Maybe it could be 50 bucks a week or 50
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: bucks a month. That adds up to how much you
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: think you may spend. And that's a really cool automatic
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: way to start saving towards these expenses.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: You can also look at your discretionary spending and cut
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: back so you can save more. Maybe you don't book
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: the expensive weekend trip this fall, or you do yoga
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: at home with YouTube videos rather than going to classes,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: or you cancel the streaming subscription that you don't use.
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: Really getting a sense of what your non-essential spending is
• 4:37
  Speaker 5: each month, and if you can make some sacrifices there
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: to save more.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I asked Bethel, what about temporarily decreasing the amounts you're
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: saving for retirement, as long as you set a reminder
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: to reverse those changes come New Year's? She wasn't a
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: huge fan of that plan, but says it might be
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: an option for some.
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: I mean, look, when I was paying off my student loans,
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: like very rigorously, I had like 60K in student loan
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: debt that I killed in two years. And during that time,
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: I just went down to the company match so I
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: wouldn't lose the free money that was on the table
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: from that. And then after that, I went back up.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: So that is certainly a lever that people choose to pull.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: The other thing you can do is spread the actual
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: spending out. For instance, buy gifts now.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: I remember I took a trip to LA and I
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: saw something that was perfect for a coworker. She would
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: always get these like cratefuls of LaCroix delivered to the office.
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: And I saw this really cute LaCroix ornament. It was adorable.
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: And I was like, this is a perfect little thing
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: for the holidays. And so I just, I bought it
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: then and there in like the summertime and And I
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: took it with me back to the East Coast and
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: I gave it to her at Christmas time.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: I have a box of gifts under my bed. And
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: when the holidays come, I am so glad that I
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: already found and paid for presents for my family. Now
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: that you have a sense of your finances, how do
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: you actually want to spend this holiday season? We'll help
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: you figure that out after the break.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: This message comes from the Center for U.S. Voters Abroad Foundation.
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: U.S.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Citizens live, travel, and serve all over the world. But
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: wherever they are, they can stay connected to home through voting.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: All U.S. citizens abroad may request an absentee ballot to
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: vote in the 2026 election, and requesting yours is easy.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Keep your connections strong, no matter how far away you are.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Visit registerabroad.com to get started.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen my son since 2012.
• 6:53
  Speaker 8: This is Deborah Tice. The disappearance of her son, Austin,
• 6:57
  Speaker 8: is one of the biggest missing person cases in the world.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: What do you want from me?
• 7:02
  Speaker 9: I just want to solve the mystery.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: I know that my son is somewhere alive.
• 7:06
  Speaker 8: Listen to Where Is Austin Tice? from NPR's Embedded and
• 7:10
  Speaker 8: BBC Radio 4 on the NPR app or wherever you
• 7:13
  Speaker 8: get your podcasts.
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: This week on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, comedian and
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: SNL icon Leslie Jones tells us what she thinks of
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: our show. What is this?
• 7:22
  Speaker 9: A cheap Jeopardy?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: What is this?
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: Why is the black guy buying the short white guy?
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: Don't miss our full conversation and the rest of our games.
• 7:33
  Speaker 7: Listen to the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me podcast on
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, takeaway three is to choose your big swings. You
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: know now basically how much money you're working with, but
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: how do you prioritize? Bethel says you want to make
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: sure your plan, your holiday budget, reflects what you care
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: about the most.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: One strategy is to imagine what a perfect holiday season
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: actually looks like for you. To say this would happen
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: and that would happen and I would be able to
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: make it to these parties and I would be able
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: to make this trip And I would feel really calm.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: And I would really do this one activity because it
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: makes me feel really good.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: Nero Feliciano is a licensed clinical social worker. She wrote
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: a book called All Is Calm-ish about the pressure to
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: do it all over the holidays.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: And I think the question we have to ask is, okay,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: what is really important in this season? And what's taking
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: away from the things that are the most meaningful parts
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: of the holiday season? And what can I let go
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: of in this season? We all want to feel connected
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: in this season. And there's so many things that steal
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: that ability from us in trying to make this perfect
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: for so many people and create those memories.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: Nero suggests that you think about three activities that you
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: don't have to do, but that you get to do
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: this holiday season. The stuff you're actually excited about. Here's
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: one of hers.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Even things like I get to baked cookies this year,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: which sometimes seems like a chore for me. Part of
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: that is because I know my daughter's coming home from college.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: And now I recognize the value of having all my
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: kids under my roof. It's not something that I take
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: for granted anymore.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: You can also name three moments that you want to
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: be truly present for.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Maybe it is that Christmas morning or that dinner with
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: the family or at the concert that you're attending. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: in that moment, put away your phones as much as
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: you can. and really show up for it with as
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: much as you can bring in that moment.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: And I think that's a good start. Notice, many of
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: these things don't require you to spend big money. And
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: they might also help you feel less pressure to do
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: everything all out for the holidays. Maybe instead, you could
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: try to get a little bit of rest. We have
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: an episode on seven different kinds of rest. Take a
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: look at that to see what kind you might be
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: craving the most. All right, next up, takeaway four, choose
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: what you're going to do cheaper, later, or not at all.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Your budget is going to come in really handy here.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: You've already done the math. You know what you can
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: afford to spend, and you know what's most important to you.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: So when you get an invite or you feel social
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: pressure to buy something, ask yourself, is this in my budget?
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: And keep in mind, your budget is not going to
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: be the same as everyone else's. Jasmine Ramirez Iboguchi, married
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: to Chidozie Iboguchi, the financial therapist, is a licensed clinical
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: social worker who focuses on money and mental health.
• 10:42
  Speaker 9: There's seasons for spending, seasons for saving, and be mindful
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: of what season you might be in. You might be
• 10:48
  Speaker 9: in a different season than a friend or a family
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: member and just lean into it.
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: A reminder here, pretty much all the activities you do
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: and purchases you make for the holiday season are optional.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: Though it doesn't always feel that way. Wendy De La
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Rosa is a behavioral scientist at the University of Pennsylvania's
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Wharton School. We posed a question to her once from
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: a listener who had 18 nieces and nephews, many of
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: whom she wasn't close with. And she was wondering if
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: she needed to buy all of them presents.
• 11:16
  Speaker 10: I would ask the letter writers to say, like, what
• 11:18
  Speaker 10: are your values? Like, how do you want these children
• 11:21
  Speaker 10: to feel? Like, do you even want to be a
• 11:23
  Speaker 10: significant part of their lives? If the answer is yes,
• 11:26
  Speaker 10: then let's think about creative ways in which you can
• 11:29
  Speaker 10: show up for them that doesn't leave you in financial ruin. Like,
• 11:34
  Speaker 10: you know, how can you organize a family gathering at
• 11:39
  Speaker 10: your place or at a park where you're organizing everything
• 11:42
  Speaker 10: and you give all the children just like an awesome memory?
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Wendy says the real gift here is the gift of connection.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: It's more important to do a FaceTime on your niece's
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: birthday than give her a toy that, let's be honest,
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: she's going to be over in five minutes. And hey,
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: this strategy also happens to save you money.
• 12:03
  Speaker 10: Then you have sort of created a boundary for yourself
• 12:06
  Speaker 10: as to how you're going to show up so you're
• 12:08
  Speaker 10: not perpetually suffering. And putting yourself over the coals of saying,
• 12:14
  Speaker 10: I'm not doing enough for X, Y, Z. No, you've
• 12:16
  Speaker 10: done the internal hard work to say, there's only X
• 12:20
  Speaker 10: number of dollars in my bank account. I only have
• 12:22
  Speaker 10: X limited amount of attention. I am purposely going to
• 12:25
  Speaker 10: decide to invest in these relationships. And I'm very clear-eyed
• 12:30
  Speaker 10: about it.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: Some more advice on how to handle gifts in big families.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: comes from Tiffany Dodson Davis, a beauty editor at Harper's Bazaar.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: She says you could limit the number of people you're
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: giving gifts to, like I'm only going to give gifts
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: to my parents or my parents and grandparents or only
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: to my significant other. Also, she says you don't have
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: to spend a lot of money to give a meaningful gift.
• 12:54
  Speaker 11: And sometimes it feels even more special to celebrate big
• 12:57
  Speaker 11: moments with small gestures of appreciation. Like for instance, my sister,
• 13:01
  Speaker 11: this is not really holiday related, but it's gift related.
• 13:05
  Speaker 11: But my sister recently moved into a new home and
• 13:08
  Speaker 11: I surprised her with a bundle of small kitchen utensils
• 13:12
  Speaker 11: that she didn't realize that she needed, like a whisk.
• 13:15
  Speaker 8: And a spatula.
• 13:16
  Speaker 11: But yeah, she was really touched and it really meant
• 13:19
  Speaker 11: a lot to her, even though, you know, the gift
• 13:21
  Speaker 11: itself didn't cost me too much. But it, you know,
• 13:24
  Speaker 11: made her transition a little easier. And I think those
• 13:26
  Speaker 11: are really important. strong starting points to think about when
• 13:29
  Speaker 11: shopping for other people. And then also, I think, you know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 11: a homemade gift is a great option as well, and
• 13:36
  Speaker 11: something that shouldn't be ruled.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Out, you know?
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Tiffany's fiancé hand-wrote her a poem and framed it.
• 13:42
  Speaker 11: And then he gave it to me one year on Christmas,
• 13:44
  Speaker 11: and it's still one of the most special gifts that
• 13:46
  Speaker 11: I've ever received from him.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: I've actually done something similar. I found a poem that
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: my mom wrote in her high school newsletter, wrote it
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: out by hand, framed it, and then framed an illustration
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: to match.
• 13:58
  Speaker 11: I think perhaps maybe a simple gift like that represents
• 14:03
  Speaker 11: a family member that maybe passed away, or perhaps an
• 14:07
  Speaker 11: heirloom within your family that's being passed down can be
• 14:12
  Speaker 11: super sentimental. And I think just telling the story that
• 14:17
  Speaker 11: accompanies the gift can be an emotional experience for the
• 14:21
  Speaker 11: recipient and the giver, but.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Bethel says another gift that you can offer on a
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: budget is your time and labor.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: Like helping your mom clear out the attic because she
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: keeps asking you to do that. And it would actually
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: be a huge gift to her to actually get this
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: thing off of the to-do list for her.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: The other thing to keep in mind is that a
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: lot of the stuff we cram into December is doable
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: in January and February and is often cheaper. Scott Keyes
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: is the founder and chief flight expert at Going.com, formerly
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: known as Scott's Cheap Flights. He understands why people travel
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: at Thanksgiving and the December holidays.
• 15:00
  Speaker 12: But from a travel perspective, it's one of the worst
• 15:02
  Speaker 12: times to travel from disruptions to crowds to the price
• 15:07
  Speaker 12: of the flights. My secret best advice for travel over
• 15:11
  Speaker 12: the holidays is if at all possible, just don't do it.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Scott says if you can wait and travel in January,
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: you will probably have a much better experience and save money.
• 15:22
  Speaker 12: My favorite date of the entire year is around January 8th.
• 15:26
  Speaker 12: I circle that date on the calendar because whereas flight
• 15:31
  Speaker 12: prices really get inflated over the Christmas, New Year period,
• 15:35
  Speaker 12: around January 8th, they just fall off a cliff from
• 15:38
  Speaker 12: the most expensive time of the entire year to the
• 15:41
  Speaker 12: absolute cheapest.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Caveats here. The exact date in January for the cheapest
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: flights can vary. depending on your route and if you're
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: traveling domestically or internationally, but still worth considering. Oh, and
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Merry Mint, by the way, we are allowed to have
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: that year round. And boy, do we need it come
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: January when the Christmas lights come down and our homes
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: lose some of their sparkle. Why not plan a winter
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: gathering in January instead of a big holiday dinner in December?
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: That way you can spread out the cost even more
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: and you won't have to pay extra for those napkins
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: with a snazzy little gingerbread man on them. I know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: super cute, but do you need them? All right, y'all,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: it's time for a recap. Takeaway one, get a baseline.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: Figure out how much you actually bring home every month
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: and the amount that you need to spend on necessities.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: Subtract the smaller number from the bigger number and see
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: what you have left. You've got about three months to
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: save up for the holidays. That's how much you could
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: potentially save every month. Also do a retrospective. See how
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: much you spent last year and whether you can actually
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: afford to do that again. Takeaway two, spread out your
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: holiday expenses. Start saving money now and start actually buying
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: stuff now, like plane tickets if that's relevant for you
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: or gifts. Takeaway three, choose your big swings. You got
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: to prioritize. Think about what's most important to you this
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: holiday season. And takeaway four, choose what you're going to
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: do cheaper, later, or not at all. Just because it's
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: important to somebody else doesn't mean it has to be
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: a priority for you. And your budget may be tighter
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: than somebody else's. That's okay. Just know what you're working with.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: And remember that some of the things we think we
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: have to do in December, we can actually do any
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: other time, including January and February, which, from what I recall,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: tend to be pretty bleak. Don't you think we could
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: use a little sparkle? All right, that's our show. Before
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: we go, do you ever find yourself saying to a friend,
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: you know, I heard on Life Kit. First of all,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: thank you for talking us up. And second, would you
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: want to tell another friend about us?
• 17:57
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• 18:01
  Speaker 4: of Life Kit was produced by Margaret Serino. Our digital
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: editor is Malika Garib and our visuals editor is CJ Rikalan.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor and Lauren Gonzalez
• 18:12
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• 18:16
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• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Tiffany Vera Castro. Fact-checking by Will Chase. I'm Mariel Segarra.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.
• 18:38
  Speaker 13: How do products end up on big box shelves? Well,
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