Latest / Drawn of History / LL Cool J on Making His First Album at 16 and Embracing Simplicity(M4A_128K)

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LL Cool J on Making His First Album at 16 and Embracing Simplicity(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan experience.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I think for a lot of young people, it's a
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: problem that they don't exactly know who they are.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Well, they know what they, a lot of people know what,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: who they, they know what they want, but they're scared to,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: they're scared to deal with it because they feel like,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: that's not something that other people would be into. It
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: goes back to me making a love song in the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: middle of, like, hardcore hip-hop. Right? Uh-oh, what will other
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: people say?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Was that before or after Mama Said Knock You Out?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: That was before. Yeah, that was way before. That was
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: many years before. Because that's one of the hardest songs
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of all time. That's hard. That's one of the hardest
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: songs of all time. Don't call it a comeback, baby.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Come on, man.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: That's one of the hardest songs of all time. But
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: you also mixed it up with shit like Going Back
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: to Cali.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rick Rubin. Which is smooth. Yeah. Avant-garde blues. Yeah,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: her bikini, small. Heels tall. She said she likes the ocean.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: She showed me the beach. Gave me a peach. Now,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: my bet is fast. Yeah, that was fun. That was
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God, man. You got some classics. You got
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: some real classics. Rick Rubin is such a trip. He's
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: one of the most interesting people I've ever met.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny. Like, my first album, Radio, it says, Reduced.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: By Rick Rubin. Does it really? Yes. It's not produced.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: If you pull up the credits, it says reduced by
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Rick Rubin. Wow. Yeah, because he wanted to strip everything away.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like in life, right? It's like stripping down.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I've come to realize that stripping away tends to be
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a lot more interesting than piling it on. Right. You
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? In a lot of instances. You
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: need context, but it really works. And he just stripped
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: down because prior to that, most of the, Hip-hop that
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: was on record. I'm not talking about the streets, because
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the tapes were different. But on record, it was a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: lot of bands. And a lot of, you know, a
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: lot of musicality. Records were like disco records. They were
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: like 10 minutes long, 12 minutes long, 8 minutes, 9
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: minutes long. He reduced it, stripped it down. So I'm
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: rapping over a simple beat. And I'm just, you know
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah. And it just became this thing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: You know? How did you get to know him? So...
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So it's so funny. He made a record, he produced
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: a record called It's Yours by Tila Rock. And it
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: was on the Streetwise Party Time label, but it was
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Def Jam Productions. Tila Rock is yours. I bought that record,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: loved the record, had his number. I still remember this number, 212-420-0666.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Someone's going to get some phone calls.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: My bad. No disrespect. No disrespect. So I did that.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And I called them every day. I sent a tape in.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Me and my man, my mother. Let me backtrack a little.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So I had sent demo tapes to a lot of
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: labels at that time that I thought might be handling rap.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: One of them being Sugar Hill, some others. And they
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: all kind of gave me these standard notes. We can't
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: use your material at this time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You know, the standard rejection letter. So my mother found
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: one crumbled up on a shelf. I'm dejected. Now, I've
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: been trying for two years because I started, became a
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: fan at eight, started writing at 11 or 12. At 14,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I started working on demos. And now here I am, 16,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: late 15, early 16, working on this demo. I get
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: this rejection. She gets her tax return, you know, you know.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Shout out to the people who actually get tax returns. Like,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that's pretty, you know, that's a whole other conversation. I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: want to digress. But anyway, my mother got a tax return,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and that tells you everything. She was happy.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So that tells you where we were at, right? She,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I tell her, she sees the letter. She's like, Todd,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: what's wrong? I'm in there in my room. I'm dejected.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I'm depressed. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm going to quit.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it no more. I'm going
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: to quit. I'm going to give up. She said, no, Todd,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: you sound as good as some of those guys on
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the radio, the people I hear on your tapes. You
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: sound as good as them. You should keep going. I said, well,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: I don't have any equipment. I don't have stuff. I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: can't make a demo. They don't like what I'm doing.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: She took her tax return and bought me a Korg
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: drum machine. She bought me that Korg drum machine. And
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: me and my man Frankie, shout out to my man
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Spin Master Finesse, Frankie. We went, Frankie Forbes, we went out.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: We went to his house. We were so excited. We
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: didn't even, I couldn't even wait to learn how to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: program it, reading the instructions. We did a pause tape.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I played the beat. He did the scratching. I played
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the beat. He did the scratching. I did that. I
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: rapped over it afterwards. Sent that to Rick Rubin at
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: his dorm. He had a dorm, five university place. He
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: was in the dorms at NYU. Wow. Ad Rock from
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: the Beastie Boys, Adam Harvitz from the Beastie Boys, heard
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: my demo. He played it for Rick. I was calling
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Rick every day after I sent it. Like a day
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: or two later, I'm like, you get the tape yet? Nope. Yo, Rick,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: you get the tape yet? Nope. I would call there
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: like two, three, four times every day. Finally, Ad-Rock heard it,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: played it for Rick. Rick called me up. Well, he
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: called my house. My grandmother picked up. Screwed his, fucked
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: his name up crazy. You know, slick Dick Rubin, Dick Dubin.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: You know, my grandma, I'm like, oh my God, Rick Rubin.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: She's like, you know, so I get, I call him.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, come down to the studio. We're going
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to go in. Come, come down tomorrow. I go down,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I get on the subway. I'm doing handstands on the subway.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so damn happy. You know what I'm saying? I'm
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: like on the subway platform doing handstands in New York.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like literally, like so happy.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like turning myself upside down with my legs against
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the beams, like about to tear this world up. I
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: get on the train, go down to Five University. Rick
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: comes down. I said, he said, Hey, what's up, man?
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I said, you're Rick? He said, yeah. I said, I
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: thought you was black. Look at him right there. And
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that guy, he looks at me. He goes, cool. We
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: go upstairs. And I'm looking at him with the same tatter.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: He's so crazy. We go upstairs. We made a demo
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: called Catch This Break. We made that demo. We went
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: across town right after we made it and saw Russell Simmons.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Played it for Russell. Russell was like, eh. Same old thing.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Sounds like this one, that one, that one. He's like, okay.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Me and Rick go back in the studio. Ad-Rock programs
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a beat for Rick. Rick produces everything. He gets Jazzy
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: J to do scratching. We do this thing, I need
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a beat. Russell, they like it so good, they're gonna
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: start their own label called Def Jam. They're gonna start
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: their own label. Not just a production company, but an
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: actual label. And they put that song out, and we
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: ended up going in. It was independent. We did two singles.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: That's me and Ab Rock. And then we ended up,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: you know, Def Jam became the thing that people know today. Wow. Yeah,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: but it all started back then.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is presented by
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the Farmer's Dog. Gently cooked, fresh dog food that's clinically
• 7:07
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• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I personally buy it, and I bought it before they
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: were a sponsor.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: New customer.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com slash rogan.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Plus, you get free shipping. How did Ruben get involved?
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Like, it's such a fascinating character.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: He's such a, like, he sees things. Well, he's a, see,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the thing is having a POV and being a fan.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be classically trained in something to
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: have a POV and to be a fan and have taste.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Because ultimately, whether it's, Us being here, whether it's us
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: picking a t-shirt, a book, a bike, a workout mat,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: it's about taste. Taste is something that you can't, that's
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the great delineating factor between a lot of things is taste.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: He has great taste. Rick can say, that's cool. And
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it will be. At least to us, right? I can't
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: say that everything we ever did is cool to everybody,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: but to us, it was cool. You know what I mean?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: So when we do Rock the Bells, it's like, it's cool.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like when we do these songs, I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: can't live without my radio, Rock the Bells, all this stuff.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: It just felt cool. Jack the Ripper, it just felt cool.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? To us. And that's how
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: it is. And that's, to me, that's the thing that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: makes Rick so fun to work with. It's because... He
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't afraid to tell you, eh, I'm not sure that's it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like me and you can't have a real rapport. If
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you can't tell me you'll charge a t-shirt, I don't know, whatever,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you know. We can't, but he would tell you. You know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: like my name, like, you know, like I had a friend,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Playboy Mikey D, I had a lot of dudes with
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: like romantic and client names that had them kind of
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: names on it. So I was Ladies Love Cool James.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: It's like, yo, that's long for the record, man. You know,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: for the label, that's a lot. LL. Yeah. Cool. Let's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it's
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: all those little things, you know? And that's the thing
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: about Rick. You know what I'm saying? Taste is a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: big deal. You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And the fact that you respect his taste. Like, he's
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: intelligent enough to be, like, taken into consideration. Because there's
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that have opinions.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: So... You know, it's so funny. You're right about that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: You know, people always tell you, like you hear somebody say,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you got to surround yourself with great people. How do
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: you know they're great people? Right.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Well, especially when you're 16.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. So you just have to follow your intuition. Yes.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: That's the biggest tool in your toolbox. Yes. Your gut
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: is going to be the thing, right? Yeah. And I
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: always followed that. Like there was times I would tell Rick, nah, uh-uh, nah, Rick,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: that ain't it. And he'd be like, you sure? I'm like, uh-uh.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: But then other times he'd be like, oh, this is it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, you sure? He's like, yeah.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And I would listen. Like, going back to Cali is
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: a classic example. Initially, I said, I don't think so
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: because I hated the shit. Really? Yeah, I was like,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. He's like, keep that. You didn't
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like that song? Because it sounded different. Like at first
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: when we were, it was the demo version. And I
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't think so. He was like, yo,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that sounds crazy. I'm like, yeah. And then I said it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. Like, you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it became a thing, you know?
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: So you have to, you know, it's just like martial arts.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: It's like anything. Adjustments. Yes. Right? Taste. Adjustments. And doing
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: things that work for you. Right. Your mind, your creativity,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: your voice. your tenor, you know, your.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: When you're involved in like the editing process of a song,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: like when it says reduced by Rick Rubin, did you
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: and Rick like sit down together and listen to it
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and try to sort it out? Did you listen to
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: it independently?
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So at that time I was, I would more listen
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: to what he was saying, but I would like hum
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: beats in his ear and then they would program. I
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: would say, make the beat go like this, Rick, or
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: do this. And then he would, like, so we really
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: worked together. But ultimately, at that time, he would come
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: back to me with ideas. And most of the time,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I just loved them. I just thought they were great.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: You know? I'm a little kid. I'm 16. I'm on
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the bus. Wow. I'm going back and forth. I'm getting
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: on the subway. We're making these records. And it just
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: sounded like the coolest stuff in the world. My man E-Love,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: we're walking down the block. I play Rock the Bells
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: for him. And he's like, yo, I play it on
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: my walk. When he listens, like, yo, let me hear
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: that again. I'm like, yeah, I play it for him.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: He's like, he used to say, you know, he'd be like, yo,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: let me hear that again. You know, it was just
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that kind of a thing, you know, because I like,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: so I always went after feelings with lyrics. Like I
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: know nowadays, especially in the internet age, people are hyper-focused
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: on lyricism and they're hyper-focused on complexity of lyrics and
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: couplets and I am pantameter, you know. I always I
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: was more in the James Brown zone of how does
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it feel? It's kind of like it would be like
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you like did the joke make you laugh or was
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it a really smart joke? Like I didn't really care
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: about it having to be a smart joke. I just
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: wanted them to laugh. I wanted people to feel what
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I was saying. I wanted to feel it. So that's
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: why I wrote songs that people can feel. You know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: which is very different when you get, when people get
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: over analytical. That to me, I don't want to listen
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to an audio book when I'm listening to an album.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I want to feel something. Right, right, right. You feel
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Yes. But what people, like, and so
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: that was kind of my thing. I was never really concerned, like,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like, Quincy Jones said something really interesting
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to me. He was one of my mentors. He said
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: he had to forget two-thirds of what he knew before
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: he could get a hit.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: You know? Yeah. It's like overthinking your jump shot. It's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: like overthinking a punch. It's like overthinking a kick. I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: watched you one time, you was doing side kicks and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: back kicks, you know, like roundhouse kicks. And you were
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: talking about how you got to get your hip up
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: in the air. But at a certain point, you forgot it, right?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: You were no longer conscious of it. You just throw
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the kick the way you throw the kick. Well, when
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you're writing a song, you can either be one of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: those people that are overly focused on, I'm raising my hip,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: or you could just write the song And it's a
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: fluid kick that just works. Now, just because when it's
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a fluid kick that works, if people don't always associate
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: simplicity with genius or hyper creativity because they underestimate how
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: difficult it is. to get simple. Right, right, right, right. Right? Right.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Like if I, you know, if a guy who, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you're a very experienced martial artist. A guy comes in
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: here and he's like a, you know, he's telling you,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you're in your shoulder and your elbow and your, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: another guy comes in, Bruce comes in here, ha, he
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: just throws it. You're like, you know what I mean? Yes.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: You can forget.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying? Yes. Because it seems so easy.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, simplicity is very underrated.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: It's really underrated. Economy of words.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Like, we were talking about that the other day in
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the Comedy Mothership Green Room about the song Jessie's Girl.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Jessie's Girl. Think about how simple that song is. Yeah.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Where can I find me a woman like that?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Right. But see, that's the thing. But guess what that means.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Think about how many people feel that, though. Feel like that. Yes.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Where can I find me a woman? Like, think about
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: how many people feel like that. Yeah. See, so what
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: happens is it's kind of like if you got a
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: squeaky floor. And I, you know, and a hundred carpenters
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: come in there to change it. And then one guy
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: comes in and puts a nail right there. But he
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: wants to charge you 10 grand or some crazy astronomical number.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You're paying me because I know the spot. You're not
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: paying me because of how difficult it was to solve
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the problem. It's identifying the thing. So identifying Jesse's girl,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I want to, you know. Yeah. You understand what I'm
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: trying to say? Uh-huh.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You feel me?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Cut to it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Touching the thing like orgasm, bro. She don't care. Orgasm.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Oh, he kissed the toe
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and he nibbled on the knee. Orgasm. You see what
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Simplicity. Respectfully. Orgasms are simple.