Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / Caitlin Murray's Late-Night Panic Google

Transcript

Caitlin Murray's Late-Night Panic Google · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is parent Data. I'm Emily ast.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hey, Emily, it's me Kaitlyn Murray. I need your help
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: with something. I need a lot of help, but with
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: something specifically. Can you call me back?
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Hi, Emily Aster, Kaitlin Murray, big time adulting.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're entirely welcome. Thank you for having me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Why don't you tell people what you do? Who is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Kaitlyn Murray?
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: That's so funny? Who is I don't know? I'm a
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Murray. I just I'm a mom. I go on
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Instagram some time, and you're funny, not more than more
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: than sometimes. I do it every day, multiple times a day.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I dance around, I tell jokes. I joke a lot.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I'm a real I'm a jokester.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: How did you get before we get into panic googling?
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: I've always wondered how you got into being a comedy
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: mom fluencer on Instagram.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: It's it was an unexpected journey, I guess. I uh well.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I was writing about my son who was sick on
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: like a blog and I was approached by a woman
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: that lives in my town who worked in editing, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: she said, would you like me to show your blog
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: to this friend of mine who's in publishing, and I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: was like, sure, yeah, that'd be great. Cool, and but
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I was writing about a very heavy topic
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: of like my son's cancer treatment, but it was anecdotal
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and there were funny and uplifting parts of it and
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: it was just like a cathartic experience for me. And
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: long story short, the publishers were like, you know, this
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: is just fine, but like, she has no following, so
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: you can kick rocks if you think we're going to
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: give this girl a book deal, pretty much, and so
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know, well I really like this writing.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll try to see if I can get an audience.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And so then I started my Instagram page. And it
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: really isn't about I mean, I touch on Callum and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: his cancer journey sometimes, but as it relates to life
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and everything in parenting, but it's more just about the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: everyday shenanigans of caring for kids and all of these
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: sort of I guess alternate realities of what the visions
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I had for motherhood before I began. So here I am,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: did you get a book deal? I did?
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, there you go.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah it worked out. I'm writing it now.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to read it. Thank you.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Okay, So you're very funny on Instagram, and if people
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: aren't following you, they should because you're right, like, parenting
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: has all of these moments that we didn't you didn't
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: think you would be doing, and then all of a sudden,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: you're I don't know, like I imagine imagine sitting around
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: the table, you know, with your kids and they were
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: just going to be like talking to you about politics
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: and like telling you about their day.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Didn't you imagine that? And then like that's not that's
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: not what happened.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, but we would they. I feel like whoever
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: talks about like all the joys of parenting skipped over
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: the first like five years before that, like they were
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: just like block that out, not going to talk about that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm going to ask you about your late
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: light panic Google. But I got so excited about talking
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: about your history that I forgot to ask you what
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: type of children you have?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: What types?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Uh? The first one as a boy was yeah, crazy
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: and lunatics. Uh. The first one's a boy, he's ten
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: years old and the middle one's a girl and she's eight,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and Little ones a boy and he's five.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Three seems like so many. I'm two is my limit?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: It feels like very many.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Actually, So Caitlin, what is your late night panic Google?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, Emily, honestly, what isn't my late night
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: panic Google? To be honest, like, I don't think that
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: there's any topic I haven't covered, as you know, as
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I've mentioned, I mean I've had like a unique background
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of a sort of been through the wringer in terms
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: of medical history in parenting. So oh my gosh, I
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: think I googled three and a half years of my
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: life away during that time. And this is, by the way,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: this is going to be. This is going to turn
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: into therapy more than regular parent data, right, Like you're
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a therapist now, Emily.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's my therapy had on It's.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think because of that, and in general,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a very health anxious person. I think I was
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: actually prior to his diagnosis. But if there's anything that
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: ever pops up, and it's not even limited to like
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: my son, it could be any of the kids, or
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: myself or anything that doesn't have like a fairly obvious
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: explanation like I don't panic about like a virus that
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: pops up in the house or something like that, or
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I don't panic about I don't know, like cuts and
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: bruises or things like of that nature. I just I
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: panic about the unknown. And so I feel like why
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I always love your advice is because it encourages you
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to zoom out a little bit and look at like
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the bigger picture of all the things that are factoring
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: into what may or may not be happening, and always
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: makes me feel better. But I would say, like I
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: would be I would just like love if I could
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: call Emily Oster at three o'clock in the morning and
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: be like, why should I not panic about Callum's knees
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: that are at pain? Like his? I picked him up
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: from this football camp today and he was like, mom
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: my knees, My knee is hurting me. And I was
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: like which knee and he was like, well, it alternates,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, it's not limited to like
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: one knee, one spot, because where my mind always goes
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: is like worst case scenario, it's terminal cancer. That's like
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: the answer to everything.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Initially, Yeah, and of course that that reaction obviously is
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: part of because part of the life experience that you had.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: But what I think is very resonant.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: For many people is this like I don't understand what
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: the source of this is, and therefore the first thing
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: I think is something terrible.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So you know, you're saying, like if.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: Kids get a virus, like or they have a bruise,
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not too worried about it because it's like, yeah,
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: you understand, they ran into a table and now they
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: have a bruise. It's like, I get it, I have
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: the information table, Bruce, Or they have a virus, like
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: who knows.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: They're a kid like that.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: You know, Susie vomited on the floor in school, Like
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: definitely you're going to vomit.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: You're not worried like something terrible.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: He's just like, yeah, that sucks, but Susie was sick.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: But it's it's these things where they say, you know,
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: I have this weird rash, or I have this bruise
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: and I don't know where it came from, or you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: I my knee hurts.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: My daughter also has a problem with her knees.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Is it a growing thing?
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: That's I mean, that's what I'm telling her, it's like
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: it's either growing or running or possibly.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Some medication that she's on. I don't really you know.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: But the thing where it alternates, it's like, well it's
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: probably not really anything.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: If it's right alternating, it's not consistent.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: So but but it's funny that are I think this
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: is such a this is such a common space for
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: people for your your brain to.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Go immediately to like the bad rare option.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like you google like my kid's knee hurts, and
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: web md is like probably they banged it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: But then later at the.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: Bottom they're like it could be you know, this devastating
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: autoimmune condition.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: You're like, that's probably what it is. Yeah, it's as
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: opposed to.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: You know, like, well, actually that's it's really much.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: More likely that they banged it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Think my anxiety will be like you need to worry
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: about the worst case scenario. You have to be prepared
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: for the worst case scenario because there's nothing you can
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: do to fix it, but just mentally prepare just in case.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: There's this idea in sort of economics and statistics and
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: like in people's research. I always think about around sort
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: of like salience that like there are a million low
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: probability things you know they're not thinking about like all
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: the times, all kinds of tiny probabilities getting hit by
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: lightning a meteor.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that actually makes me feel a lot better, to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: be honest, I think about that a lot. I'm like,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you know what, I could walk outside and a fallen
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: tree branch could knock me down, strike me to you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: like that kind of thing.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: I think about it differently, which is thinking about like
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: there there are a lot of equal small probability events
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: that you are not worried about. When as soon as
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: we mention something then you start worrying about it. So
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: what I say, meteor mostly you don't worry about it.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: But for this health stuff, something that is about as
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: likely as getting hit by a meteor, which is, by
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: the way, like not that unlikely, Like there's meteors all
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: the time, it's not pop don't worry.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: About and heard about anyone getting hit by a meteor.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: Well, there are a lot of things you haven't heard
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: about people having that you probably do worry about.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all the time.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, so you should.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I think in some ways we should sort of train
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: ourselves to being like, oh, is this like a meteor?
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: Like should I treat this like I do meteors, which
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: is just not think about them as opposed to like
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: make it be very salient to me because it's all
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: of a sudden in my brain like occupying my brain space.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I always like with with health related things that
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I'm apt to be panic googling in the middle of
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the night. It would be like my my The reminder
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I like to tell myself is if it if it
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't change or if it gets worse, then you can
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: start to worry about it. But for now, like, let's
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: see how this just plays out, you know, like that
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: seems very healthy. You don't need to be this pan
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: you know, like I don't need to panic about this today. Yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like this question you ask yourself, like do
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: I need to worry about this now or could I
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: like plan to worry about it in the in the
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: future if.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It feels like it's something to actually still worry about
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: right right.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Like let me reevaluate later.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: This reminds me of this advice that I sometimes talk
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: about that I talk about as the best parenting advice
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: I got from our kids pediatrician, which is about bees.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: So I had like come to her with this like
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: long complicated story about how my like I was afraid
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: my daughter would be allergy to bees and we're like
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: on vacation if she'd never been stung by a bee,
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: and like what if she gets stung And it was
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: in the middle of nowhere, Like it was like it
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: was like a hall you know.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I went on sort of like work.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Myself out, like written down, you know, by levels of
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: concern about this, and she was just like, yeah, I
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: would just try not to think about that, like okay, cool.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, so I.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: Don't know for me that that kind of idea of
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: not thinking, like not overthinking it is about the only
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: solution to the late night health panic Google.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like you're right. I think it's like we
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: spend all of this time worrying about things that will
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: probably never be and it's such wasted energy. It's horrible
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's yes, then you start worrying, Oh, I like
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: my cortisol is high.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah I should, yes, and then probably your next worry.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: But I think it's inevitable, like when you have kids,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: you just worry because they're precious, even though I love
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: to make fun of them totally.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: Even though we like to laugh about them, and we
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: like to say how they won't sit still, like that's it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: That's your whole life there sitting at your table, not
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: listening to you, or talking about.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Political politics at the kitchen table politics.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Telling my husband don't this is a boring story.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: He does have some boring Like Okay, fast forward sometimes
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I like to my husband will do that too sometimes
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: and I'm like he's kind of like he's getting to something.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you're getting to the point, like just land
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the fucking plane guy, you know.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: You know, he's like he's like, I'm going to tell
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: them more.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: I was like, you can't keep their attention for that long,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: like you need the punchline needs to come faster, like
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: you know, you don't need to back up to like
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: the French Revolution, like to talk tell.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: There's too much context for this.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Very relatable though.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, thank you, Caitlin. It's a delight to talk.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Too lovely to be here. Thanks for having me.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Before you go, tell people where they can find.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, big time adulting all one word mostly on Instagram.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: All right, thank you