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How Charismatic Megafauna Work · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know from how Stuff Works
0:04
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
0:14
Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Roland and
0:20
Speaker 1: stuff you should not. My vocal cords are about to
0:24
Speaker 1: split wide open. Are they sure you don't sound weird? Oh?
0:28
Speaker 1: Really nice? I'm very Josh like. What is that is? He?
0:37
Speaker 1: I think that's how you pronounce it? Um? Wait, you
0:42
Speaker 1: got a little uh threat thing? No, you know, like
0:47
Speaker 1: when you just talk too much? Have you been talking
0:49
Speaker 1: too much? I guess, or you're stressed. I was under
0:54
Speaker 1: the impression that, aside from these two hours, you just
0:57
Speaker 1: sort of sit in silence and you and you meet
1:00
Speaker 1: pantomime right everything we do? Uh, interpretive dance. Yeah, I
1:05
Speaker 1: gotta say my my vocal courts. Babe. Well, I'm sorry
1:09
Speaker 1: to hear that you sound normal. Well, I'm glad I
1:12
Speaker 1: saund normal because I don't feel like I do. But
1:13
Speaker 1: if I sound normal, who cares about how I feel? Oh?
1:17
Speaker 1: Come on, everyone cares? No. Uh. This podcast, by the way,
1:24
Speaker 1: has perhaps the best band name ever right there in
1:27
Speaker 1: its title. I think it's overdone. Charismatic Megafauna. What do
1:32
Speaker 1: you mean, like there's so many bands name that, or
1:34
Speaker 1: you just think the name is too much the ladder
1:37
Speaker 1: of those two, he's pretty good now, charismatic Mega fauna.
1:42
Speaker 1: I mean maybe for your second band, your side gig. No, no, no,
1:46
Speaker 1: like the second before you know, your third, fourth or
1:48
Speaker 1: fifth one where you finally hit it. I'm still waiting
1:52
Speaker 1: on that. Are you know the first? But a hobby
1:59
Speaker 1: that offen the omega and nothing in between? How do
2:03
Speaker 1: you like my Latin? Is that Greek? Now this is
2:07
Speaker 1: off to a terrible start. No, this is great. So
2:10
Speaker 1: I saw a T shirt the other day. Um, I
2:13
Speaker 1: should give credit worre credits due you me saw a
2:15
Speaker 1: T shirt the other day and showed it to me.
2:17
Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome, you know. Um it was a World
2:20
Speaker 1: Wildlife Fund logo because you were just walking around kicking rocks.
2:24
Speaker 1: She's not looking up. Look up every up, she panomimes,
2:28
Speaker 1: look up now, pano back. Um it was the World
2:33
Speaker 1: Wildlife Fund logo with the panda, but there was another
2:37
Speaker 1: panda coming up behind it with a folding chair, which
2:41
Speaker 1: is a play on the w WF. I've seen that before. Great,
2:44
Speaker 1: great T shirt, um, But the fact that the panda
2:49
Speaker 1: is the front man for the World Wildlife Foundation, one
2:54
Speaker 1: of the biggest conservation organizations in the entire world. Is
3:00
Speaker 1: actually a pretty good um example of the use of
3:05
Speaker 1: a charismatic megafauna. Yeah um, which is also called a
3:10
Speaker 1: flagship species, and it's um a term that came around
3:14
Speaker 1: in the eighties. I tried to find track it back
3:16
Speaker 1: to the person who thought of it. Couldn't either. I
3:18
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Let's go with Jack Hannah, all right, possible, Yeah,
3:24
Speaker 1: it's possible. But basically it's very simple. This is a
3:29
Speaker 1: koala or a panda right now, but sort of yes, um,
3:34
Speaker 1: it's an animal that is like the poster child in
3:39
Speaker 1: advertising for zoos and conservation groups because they're so stinking
3:45
Speaker 1: cute and charismatic that people open their wallets to give
3:49
Speaker 1: money towards conservation efforts. You just make it rain on them. Yeah, Like,
3:53
Speaker 1: look at that panda. I can't My wallet is out
3:56
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, and I'm just pulling Benjamin's out
4:00
Speaker 1: and dropping them along this pandis trail. Yeah, that is
4:04
Speaker 1: charismatic megafauna. It is. It's it's as simple as that.
4:07
Speaker 1: And along the way, since it was kind of picked
4:10
Speaker 1: up and coined and started to take seriously by conservationists.
4:15
Speaker 1: It's become you know, much bigger and debated and everything.
4:18
Speaker 1: But it really helps to understand it and bring it
4:22
Speaker 1: down to size when you realize that it's actually it's
4:24
Speaker 1: a conservation idea, but it's actually a marketing term. That's
4:31
Speaker 1: That's what the whole thing is that it has nothing
4:33
Speaker 1: to do with the importance of the species to its ecosystem,
4:37
Speaker 1: not necessarily. It doesn't even necessarily have to do with, um,
4:42
Speaker 1: how endangered the species is. UM. It really has to
4:46
Speaker 1: do with how cute and relatable humans find the species
4:51
Speaker 1: so that it will generate the most financial contributions possible
4:57
Speaker 1: towards conservation. Yeah, it's pretty int thing. And this UM
5:01
Speaker 1: we did an episode I think a pretty good one
5:03
Speaker 1: on zoos quite a while back, and the controversy around
5:07
Speaker 1: zoos and if we should even have zoos, and I
5:09
Speaker 1: think I think I remember us both sort of agreeing
5:11
Speaker 1: like some zoos are terrible, and then most zoos are.
5:16
Speaker 1: I don't know about most, but many zoos these days
5:19
Speaker 1: do such great work they are now necessary. And um
5:23
Speaker 1: two conservation efforts or go a long way towards conservation efforts,
5:26
Speaker 1: but we still like it's a little creepy sometimes when
5:30
Speaker 1: you see an elephant that should roam for thousands of
5:33
Speaker 1: miles in a you know, relatively small area, it makes
5:37
Speaker 1: you think they who knows? Yeah, But then like, man,
5:41
Speaker 1: it's just that thing with zoos again. Then you also
5:43
Speaker 1: see like a child get inspired to grow up to
5:45
Speaker 1: be a zoologists because they fell in love with the
5:46
Speaker 1: elephant at the zoo, and then they lead conservation efforts.
5:49
Speaker 1: So there's captive breeding programs that bring animals back from
5:52
Speaker 1: the verge of extinction. Um, right, all this is stuff
5:56
Speaker 1: to happen, but how often does it actually happen? Is?
5:59
Speaker 1: I think the conservation efforts are constantly happening at most
6:02
Speaker 1: zoos you need specifically bringing an animal back. Yeah, how
6:06
Speaker 1: many zoologists are actually inspired by going to a zoo
6:10
Speaker 1: as a child, like I mean, and is there a
6:13
Speaker 1: better way to do it? I'm sure we got into
6:15
Speaker 1: this in the in the Zoos episode. Since that, I
6:18
Speaker 1: don't think I've been to a zoo. I think I've
6:20
Speaker 1: been to a zoo once and I was like, I
6:21
Speaker 1: can't go to zoos anymore. Well, I went to the
6:24
Speaker 1: San Diego Zoo when we did our show there. Um,
6:27
Speaker 1: and now I'm a member of the Atlanta Zoo because
6:30
Speaker 1: I have a small child, And it's a great thing
6:33
Speaker 1: to do with a small kid because it introduces them
6:37
Speaker 1: the animals, which they love. It's really neat for them
6:39
Speaker 1: to be able to see these things in person, and
6:42
Speaker 1: it quite frankly wears her out, which is kind of
6:46
Speaker 1: the one thing you're trying to do. Disappearance your child exhausted.
6:49
Speaker 1: How crazy that chimpanzee is from being locked up its
6:52
Speaker 1: whole life, Like I bet you can't run from one
6:55
Speaker 1: animal exhibiting zookosis to the next as fast as you can. Um. So, anyway,
7:01
Speaker 1: I've been to the Atlanta Zoo here a few times
7:03
Speaker 1: recently because of that, and still have mixed feelings, you know,
7:07
Speaker 1: but it's hard to not see like your twenty old
7:10
Speaker 1: delight at seeing. I mean, one of these visits, we
7:13
Speaker 1: caught a full on ape show. Really yeah, Like you know,
7:17
Speaker 1: sometimes you go to the zoo and everyone's hiding. You're like, yeah,
7:20
Speaker 1: well that's neat. There's a tiger behind that rock somewhere.
7:23
Speaker 1: But um, we had a good day where these this
7:27
Speaker 1: family of apes was just playing like crazy and like
7:31
Speaker 1: this huge was it a gorilla? I can never remember
7:36
Speaker 1: which monkeys which are apes. I think a gorilla is
7:40
Speaker 1: a great ape. Well, this big daddy gorilla, I mean,
7:45
Speaker 1: just to see the strength of this dude moving around
7:48
Speaker 1: and jumping around was amazing. And he would jump off
7:51
Speaker 1: of a rock and clap his hands, and the little
7:54
Speaker 1: kids were playing little baby gorillas and everyone was just
7:58
Speaker 1: like literally in awe of what they were witnessing. It
8:02
Speaker 1: was like they pumped them full of steroids cocaine they did.
8:07
Speaker 1: Right then, that guerrilla family was showing off their charisma. Yeah,
8:13
Speaker 1: they have natural inherent charisma as far as um being
8:18
Speaker 1: a charismatic species goes, because they're so relatable by humans.
8:23
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean that's one of the things like, hey,
8:24
Speaker 1: this one kind of looks like you. Don't you like
8:26
Speaker 1: it more than other animals? Don't you want to give
8:28
Speaker 1: us some money to protect them in the wild. And
8:31
Speaker 1: that's the point of the charismatic mega fauna usage. Yeah,
8:34
Speaker 1: that we're talking guerrillas, pandas, kualas, tigers, dolphins, killer whales.
8:43
Speaker 1: Thanks free Willy. Uh. They include lions in here, and
8:47
Speaker 1: I guess so because they're magnificent. But lions don't do
8:51
Speaker 1: a lot. Most of the big cats just sort of
8:54
Speaker 1: lay around. Sure, they're not running around like the gorillas.
8:57
Speaker 1: You gotta throw your beer can at them to get
8:59
Speaker 1: them going. They had an elephant paint a picture. They
9:01
Speaker 1: did this little like it's a zoo, huh. They Yeah,
9:09
Speaker 1: they put a paintbrush in its mouth and would hold
9:11
Speaker 1: up a canvas and the elephant would like someone else,
9:14
Speaker 1: it's smacko with the riding crop until it But you
9:17
Speaker 1: want to know it wasn't like that. But that's actually
9:20
Speaker 1: you can buy um paintings by elephants, but apparently they're
9:24
Speaker 1: not very well treated. Yeah, I don't think that's. I
9:27
Speaker 1: think at the Atlanta Zoo they treat their animals very nicely. Sure, sure,
9:29
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that, but I mean on the internet
9:33
Speaker 1: you can buy paintings by elephants, and yeah, if you
9:35
Speaker 1: actually look into how the elephants are treated, probably wouldn't
9:38
Speaker 1: want the painting. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be
9:40
Speaker 1: super activist person, but I don't. I don't mind. It's
9:43
Speaker 1: a you know, it's a controversy. And you know what,
9:45
Speaker 1: there was a tiger there that was clearly exhibiting zukosis.
9:49
Speaker 1: He was pacing back and forth, and all I could
9:51
Speaker 1: do was think about how much that sucks for that
9:54
Speaker 1: tiger to be there. Well, it goes to that solitary
9:56
Speaker 1: confinement thing the episode that we did, it's virtually the
9:59
Speaker 1: same thing. I think you even brought up suitcases in
10:01
Speaker 1: that episode too. You know, man, that's quite a long winded,
10:06
Speaker 1: uh sort of intro. Huh, I guess so should we
10:08
Speaker 1: take a break already? And yeah, I'm a little worked out.
10:10
Speaker 1: Get it back on the tracks. Yeah, all right, I
10:38
Speaker 1: shot Josh with a sedative from an elephant gun. Now
10:43
Speaker 1: you're drifting off, I'm a little I'm feeling pretty good.
10:46
Speaker 1: We got a pretty good bush. All right. So we're
10:50
Speaker 1: talking about well a lot of things, but let's get
10:53
Speaker 1: back to characteristic, charismatic. What's wrong with me today? So
10:58
Speaker 1: I read this this article UM on charismatic mega fauna
11:02
Speaker 1: and then it was a survey of other journal like
11:07
Speaker 1: scholarly articles UM, and I think they read like seventy
11:10
Speaker 1: of them because they're basically trying to figure out what
11:13
Speaker 1: a charismatic mega fauna definition was. UM. Apparently it was
11:18
Speaker 1: just all over the place. It was. It's it's extremely
11:20
Speaker 1: non scientific, and I think it is part of the
11:22
Speaker 1: problem because it's a marketing tool. Man. These people were
11:25
Speaker 1: trying to like whip it into shape. The best definition
11:28
Speaker 1: they found, um or, the best explanation of what makes
11:32
Speaker 1: an animal charismatic was from a paper called Non Human
11:37
Speaker 1: Charisma by A. Jay Lorimer written in two thousand seven.
11:41
Speaker 1: Um there were I think four points. One was detectability
11:47
Speaker 1: and distinctiveness. Anybody can look at a pan and be like,
11:51
Speaker 1: that's panda. Oh yeah, I love panda's. Look at there's
11:55
Speaker 1: one right there, there's a panda. Well, and I think
11:57
Speaker 1: um In the they interviewed a couple of zool just
12:00
Speaker 1: some one of them and said, you might even know
12:02
Speaker 1: a few facts about this. It's just a regular non
12:06
Speaker 1: zoo enthusiast, Like panda's eat bamboo. Well, I was gonna
12:13
Speaker 1: say that, but then I thought that was a koala,
12:15
Speaker 1: and I was gonna koalaz eucalyptus. Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah,
12:19
Speaker 1: pantasy bamboo by the bushel. But you can point out
12:24
Speaker 1: a pan and you're not like, I can't tell if
12:26
Speaker 1: that's a camel rat or a humpback rat. You know,
12:28
Speaker 1: like where it's it's just the same as everything else.
12:31
Speaker 1: It has to be its own thing. That is really
12:34
Speaker 1: that stands out. Another one is socioeconomic biases, So basically
12:40
Speaker 1: how a society feels about the animal, right, So like
12:45
Speaker 1: do I want to kill the rat or hug the panda? Exactly?
12:49
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Um. Aesthetics is another one, like is
12:52
Speaker 1: it cute? Is it cuddly? Is it beautiful? Is it majestic?
12:56
Speaker 1: Does it look like um, you know, uh uh, I
13:01
Speaker 1: don't know a fat dude, right, you know, does it
13:05
Speaker 1: like kind of look like it should be wearing a
13:06
Speaker 1: hard hat and carrying like a lunch pail that kind
13:08
Speaker 1: of thing. Is it relatable? Yeah, that panda, it looks
13:12
Speaker 1: like Kevin James was wearing a black lone range of mask.
13:15
Speaker 1: He doesn't love Kevin James wearing a black clone arrangement man.
13:19
Speaker 1: And then the last one is the potential to generate satisfaction. Right.
13:24
Speaker 1: So let's say that you see a panda and you're like,
13:28
Speaker 1: I want to know what that is. I want to
13:30
Speaker 1: know all about pandas, and you find out pandas are
13:33
Speaker 1: really boring. There's not a lot to them. There's not
13:36
Speaker 1: a lot to be said. Um, they do they don't
13:40
Speaker 1: do anything it's not going to generate much satisfaction intellectually.
13:44
Speaker 1: So if if you have an animal that checks all
13:47
Speaker 1: these boxes, it's relatable, your society feels good about it.
13:50
Speaker 1: It's cute, it's cuddly, it stands out on its own,
13:54
Speaker 1: and and um, it has a lot, a lot to
13:56
Speaker 1: offer intellectually, You've got a charismatic animal. Yeah, wow, I
14:02
Speaker 1: like that. Well tell Ja Lormer, do you like it?
14:07
Speaker 1: Jay Loremer? If you're out there, it's wonderful work. Uh.
14:11
Speaker 1: So we're gonna cover sort of the good points and
14:13
Speaker 1: bad points about this characterization. But um, when it works
14:18
Speaker 1: is when the character uh keep saying characteristic, what is
14:22
Speaker 1: wrong with me? Charismatic Megaphona functions as what's known as
14:25
Speaker 1: an umbrella species, which is to say, um, because people
14:30
Speaker 1: are giving money to some sort of conservation effort towards
14:33
Speaker 1: this animal. Um, it's helping two protect and serve other
14:39
Speaker 1: animals within that ecosystem the cop Yeah. Yeah, And by
14:44
Speaker 1: the way that that makes sense, it does it does?
14:47
Speaker 1: You have to kind of step back and think about
14:49
Speaker 1: it though, you know, like, how does protecting, say like
14:52
Speaker 1: a wolf help the rest of the ecosystem. Well, a
14:56
Speaker 1: wolf feeds on smaller animals, let's say small chill under
15:02
Speaker 1: the right circumstances. Unfortunately, Um, they typically they'll feed on
15:06
Speaker 1: smaller animals, which say feed on insects, which say, feed
15:11
Speaker 1: on plants. Um. So that means that if a wolf
15:16
Speaker 1: is happy and healthy and it's normal ecosystem, that means
15:20
Speaker 1: that all these other species that make up the food
15:23
Speaker 1: web that the wolf is a part of must be
15:25
Speaker 1: happy and healthy too. So and that's it's an it's
15:30
Speaker 1: an umbrella species, like you said, where if you take
15:32
Speaker 1: care of the wolf, you're inadvertently taking care of the
15:35
Speaker 1: rest of them. So that's fine. Yeah. And in one
15:38
Speaker 1: of the interviews in here, um, who is this person Braccini?
15:44
Speaker 1: Was that from the Atlanta Zoo. Yeah. Dr Stephanie Braccini,
15:49
Speaker 1: she says, and this is to me kind of says
15:51
Speaker 1: it all. It would be nice if endangered species status
15:56
Speaker 1: was correlated to a charismatic variable, but that's not necessarily
16:02
Speaker 1: or often the case. And she brings up the point
16:05
Speaker 1: of muscles spanglers. Freshwater muscle is critically endangered but has
16:10
Speaker 1: no charisma, so you know, there's no correlation there. In
16:14
Speaker 1: case the panda, there is because they were endangered, and
16:16
Speaker 1: I think now they're just threatened, right, But there's not
16:19
Speaker 1: always that correlation. She's like, it would be kind of
16:21
Speaker 1: great if this was you know, this is always the case. Yeah,
16:24
Speaker 1: I think the point underlying the use of charismatic mega
16:28
Speaker 1: fauna is just knowing that something is on the verge
16:33
Speaker 1: of going extinct has been proven not to be enough
16:36
Speaker 1: to get humans to act to do anything about it
16:40
Speaker 1: has to be cute too, And so what conservationists are saying,
16:43
Speaker 1: after God, you're so stupid, they say, Okay, we can
16:47
Speaker 1: work with this. See this cute little animal, save this animal,
16:52
Speaker 1: give us your money, and then they take it and
16:54
Speaker 1: and actually use it for the whole ecosystem rather than
16:57
Speaker 1: just the animal. Yeah, and that's such a human thing.
17:00
Speaker 1: Like the same can and has been said about like
17:04
Speaker 1: kidnapped children or uh or the sex trade, Like it
17:10
Speaker 1: takes some you know, cute little blonde girl to make
17:14
Speaker 1: the news, you know, right, And that's kind of always
17:16
Speaker 1: been the case. Well, and it's not it's not just
17:20
Speaker 1: social either. It's not just society, although society definitely values attractiveness.
17:26
Speaker 1: There have been plenty of studies about people with facial differences, right,
17:30
Speaker 1: which is Um, like the people used to call them
17:33
Speaker 1: disfigured people. Now it's called facial differences. I think that's
17:36
Speaker 1: a great improvement, right, But um, they have been studies
17:40
Speaker 1: with babies and they prefer people who, um, don't have
17:45
Speaker 1: facial differences, who follow more like a typical facial profile
17:51
Speaker 1: or feature, right, compared to people who have facial differences.
17:56
Speaker 1: And that suggests that it's hardwired. So babies pause up
18:00
Speaker 1: on this. Yeah yeah, yeah, Um. And the idea that
18:03
Speaker 1: you're basically born to prefer, say, facial symmetry or something
18:07
Speaker 1: like that, it really kind of falls in line with
18:10
Speaker 1: this too. It's almost like you you can't help but say, yes,
18:14
Speaker 1: I care about this cute little baby pand or whatever
18:17
Speaker 1: because it's cute, whereas this other thing that is way
18:22
Speaker 1: more endangered and deserves our attention way more because it's
18:26
Speaker 1: actually a keystone species, which we'll talk about. Um, it's
18:30
Speaker 1: not cute, so I can't really care about it. I'm
18:32
Speaker 1: not hardwired to do that. Yeah, it's kind of like
18:35
Speaker 1: that thing we've talked about before and I think recently,
18:37
Speaker 1: where you prefer things that look like you because evolutionarily
18:41
Speaker 1: anything else Back in Took Took's days might have been
18:44
Speaker 1: a threat exactly. Yeah, right, So it's easy to be
18:47
Speaker 1: hard on people, but when you kind of look at
18:51
Speaker 1: the evolutionary aspect of it, like, you know, well they
18:55
Speaker 1: did to understand as well. Yeah, that whole in group
18:58
Speaker 1: outgroup thing. If we can get past that, it seems
19:01
Speaker 1: like we are we've evolved socially faster than we've evolved biologically,
19:06
Speaker 1: and that it just hasn't kept up. If we could
19:09
Speaker 1: just get past that whole in group out group thing,
19:12
Speaker 1: who knows what kind of world we'd be living in.
19:14
Speaker 1: High school would be so great. Yeah, everybody would be like,
19:17
Speaker 1: I love high school. So um. You talked about keystone species. Uh,
19:23
Speaker 1: that is a species that actually performs like a really
19:28
Speaker 1: vital role in their ecosystem. Yeah, where like if you
19:32
Speaker 1: took them out, the ecosystem would be so altered, so
19:36
Speaker 1: drastically altered, it probably wouldn't resemble itself any longer. It
19:40
Speaker 1: may just go away altogether, like a honeybee or like coral. Yeah,
19:44
Speaker 1: you know where like if it's gone, you're in trouble.
19:47
Speaker 1: The thing is is a lot of charismatic megafauna aren't
19:50
Speaker 1: keystone species. It actually doesn't really matter as far as
19:54
Speaker 1: the ecosystem is concerned. If the pandas there, so there's
19:58
Speaker 1: some other species in that ecosystem that will do the
20:01
Speaker 1: same play the same role that the panda oil. There's
20:05
Speaker 1: pandas right now listening that said. Did you just hear
20:07
Speaker 1: that guy? Let's go kid him. Have you ever seen
20:11
Speaker 1: a panda attack and kill a podcaster? Yes? Once, It's
20:14
Speaker 1: very distressing. Pandas are supposed to be super vicious, are they? Oh? Yeah,
20:20
Speaker 1: I thought that was a koala. Koala's as well. They're
20:23
Speaker 1: all vicious, aren't they. Did you see the giraffe give birth? No?
20:27
Speaker 1: I heard a lot of people talking about sitting around
20:30
Speaker 1: and watching it forever and ever, but I didn't check
20:32
Speaker 1: it out. It was hilariously sponsored. The webcam was sponsored
20:35
Speaker 1: by Toys r US. You know Jeffrey giraffe, his family.
20:40
Speaker 1: Well there you go. Interesting. Um, there's no accident, right,
20:46
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Uh. They're also something called or
20:50
Speaker 1: there is also something called an indicator species. And this
20:53
Speaker 1: is like if you want to know how an ecosystem
20:56
Speaker 1: is going. Uh, like, let's say, how's the the bayou doing.
21:01
Speaker 1: Let's go look at the crayfish, because that would be
21:04
Speaker 1: a good indicator of how everything else is doing. If
21:06
Speaker 1: the crayfish numbers are down, that means something's going on, right,
21:09
Speaker 1: or if there's if the canaries are dying off in
21:11
Speaker 1: the coal mine, you've got gas right. Well. But in
21:16
Speaker 1: the same way though, it's just uh, an umbrella species
21:20
Speaker 1: can also be an indicator species, and that like if
21:23
Speaker 1: the wolf can't survive, that means that all the other
21:26
Speaker 1: parts of the food web are messed up too, and
21:28
Speaker 1: they can also be an indicator species. Yeah. I don't
21:31
Speaker 1: think that's that's how indicator species is used every time,
21:35
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a an argument in favor of
21:39
Speaker 1: using charismatic megafauna for conservation. Um. So we've been talking
21:43
Speaker 1: a lot about you know, people want to give the
21:45
Speaker 1: things that look like them and that are cute. Uh,
21:48
Speaker 1: that this has been proven out with studies. We're not
21:50
Speaker 1: just bloviating. Um well, I guess we are. But in
21:54
Speaker 1: addition to bloviating, we're not making stuff up because the
21:57
Speaker 1: University of Arizona go wildcats right, Yes, they did a
22:02
Speaker 1: study and did find that people support preservation efforts. Oh wait,
22:06
Speaker 1: now that's the sun devils. No, that's airs on state. Okay, Yeah, wildcats. Uh,
22:12
Speaker 1: people did support efforts for animals that are attractive and
22:16
Speaker 1: that do look more human. Um. And they even found
22:20
Speaker 1: that women support uh scary animals even less than men. Right,
22:27
Speaker 1: Like you know, preservation for a snake population or uh
22:31
Speaker 1: maybe an insect or something. Yeah, so this is like
22:34
Speaker 1: a barn as In approach to conservation. Yeah, promoting conservation. Um.
22:41
Speaker 1: Also if you're if you are using charismatic megafauna for conservation,
22:47
Speaker 1: um like it. It actually can have beneficial results, right,
22:51
Speaker 1: It's not just like theoretically this should help. Like elephants,
22:54
Speaker 1: everybody loves elephants. There's not a personal life who doesn't
22:57
Speaker 1: like elephants in the West, I should say, right, um,
23:01
Speaker 1: the and who knows why. They're very cute, they're very sweet,
23:06
Speaker 1: they grieve over their dead, they do all sorts of
23:08
Speaker 1: interesting stuff, right, Um. And they've used elephants to uh
23:14
Speaker 1: basically as poster species for poaching campaigns. A lot more
23:18
Speaker 1: than just elephants are poached. Everything from whale sharks to
23:22
Speaker 1: rhinos to uh, well, elephants are poached. But the idea
23:28
Speaker 1: of giving money to andy poaching campaigns because you you
23:31
Speaker 1: feel like I want to help that elephant here's a check.
23:35
Speaker 1: It's actually going and helping all these other species as well.
23:37
Speaker 1: There's supposedly there's like thirty five thousand species that are
23:40
Speaker 1: subject to poaching. Yeah, and the other example they've given
23:45
Speaker 1: this article is the American bald eagle, which in the
23:48
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies there was a big movement They're like,
23:50
Speaker 1: this is America's bird. Yeah, dang it. You know Ben
23:55
Speaker 1: Franklin wanted the turkey. I think I didn't know that
23:59
Speaker 1: very interesting, not that you're ducking no, that would have
24:04
Speaker 1: been even better. But yeah, in the sixties and seventies,
24:07
Speaker 1: people were like, this is America's bird, we have to
24:09
Speaker 1: save the American bald eagle. Um, and it worked there.
24:13
Speaker 1: I think it's not even endangered any longer, right, I
24:16
Speaker 1: don't think so. My in laws just saw one in Florida. Yeah,
24:20
Speaker 1: pretty neat. Yeah, kind of just think associate them with
24:24
Speaker 1: like Alaska and yeah, Pacific Northwest. But there was along
24:28
Speaker 1: the Gulf. Yeah, there's like a whole group in the Gulf,
24:31
Speaker 1: and there's a whole group up in the Great White Way.
24:35
Speaker 1: Well above that, that's the Great White Way. I think
24:38
Speaker 1: it's Broadway, isn't it. I don't know, I've never heard
24:41
Speaker 1: the Broadway or Canada. I think it's Broadway. But I
24:45
Speaker 1: thought it was Canada because I heard Scott Thompson from
24:48
Speaker 1: the Kids in the Hall called Broadway that. So I
24:51
Speaker 1: was like, I guess he's talking about Canada, and then
24:53
Speaker 1: I found out he's like, it was Broadway. I think
24:55
Speaker 1: it's Broadway. That was way more complex than I thought.
24:59
Speaker 1: Um and the panda, you know, we mentioned um there
25:03
Speaker 1: come back. They have a wild population increase over the
25:07
Speaker 1: past ten or so years, largely because you know, people
25:12
Speaker 1: love pandas. They'll open up the wallet. And again, I
25:16
Speaker 1: mean not necessarily specifically with pandas, but with some species.
25:20
Speaker 1: If you can say their their populations coming back in
25:23
Speaker 1: the wild, then it also indicates that the their ecosystem
25:28
Speaker 1: is getting better healthy again as well. So that's all
25:33
Speaker 1: well and good. It's good that it it's made some money,
25:37
Speaker 1: right sure, but there's also plenty of criticisms to using
25:41
Speaker 1: charismatic mega fauna. Uh and let's take a break and
25:44
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it right after this. So Chuck, yes,
26:12
Speaker 1: what's what's the problem with using a cute panda or
26:16
Speaker 1: an elephant or something like that to get money for conservation.
26:20
Speaker 1: How could there be anything wrong with it? Well, that's there.
26:24
Speaker 1: Another word for this is the Bambi effect, like when
26:27
Speaker 1: you care only about the cute thing. Um. And they
26:30
Speaker 1: interviewed for our own article, it's interesting that the Atlanta
26:34
Speaker 1: Zoo u zoologists was like, this is kind of great
26:38
Speaker 1: and it's working. And then they interviewed Christina Simmons of
26:41
Speaker 1: the San Diego Zoo Global UH, and she was a
26:46
Speaker 1: little more like, you know what, this is an eighties
26:48
Speaker 1: thing and we have moved past that here in San Diego.
26:53
Speaker 1: Ignore that panda on the brochure. We've moved past it. Yeah.
26:57
Speaker 1: I thought that was funny. The article pointed out that
26:59
Speaker 1: they had plenty of charismatic species on their website even
27:03
Speaker 1: though they supposedly moved past it, So apparently in their
27:06
Speaker 1: projects they stopped focusing on charismatic Mega font is what
27:10
Speaker 1: she was saying, right, Yeah, she said that they m
27:13
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do is focus on an environment
27:17
Speaker 1: more than like. It's not like they don't focus on animals,
27:20
Speaker 1: but they try to look at at it from an uh.
27:23
Speaker 1: I guess from an ecosystem point of view? Is that right?
27:26
Speaker 1: I think so? Or they're looking more at animals that
27:29
Speaker 1: um have a bigger impact on their ecosystem, right than
27:34
Speaker 1: than charismatic megafaunta Mike right, Yeah, and and um, I
27:39
Speaker 1: don't think it was or maybe it was her. They
27:40
Speaker 1: kind of put it in an interesting way that I
27:42
Speaker 1: hadn't thought of. It sort of creates a class struggle,
27:45
Speaker 1: a bit um between quote wealthy animal end quote and
27:51
Speaker 1: a poor animal as far as their richness being determined
27:55
Speaker 1: by their likability. Yeah, and I mean it's as simple
27:58
Speaker 1: as that. And it's not just public awareness of you know,
28:02
Speaker 1: these species being endangered, whereas there's plenty of other species
28:06
Speaker 1: that aren't charismatic that are way more in trouble and
28:09
Speaker 1: in danger of being extinct. Um, it's scientific money too,
28:13
Speaker 1: Like scientists need funding to do their studies. And if
28:18
Speaker 1: there's plenty of funding around to focus on pandas but
28:22
Speaker 1: not say, those muscles that went extinct, well there's gonna
28:26
Speaker 1: be a lot more scientific study directed towards pandas and
28:29
Speaker 1: saving pandas than saving those muscles, even though those muscles
28:32
Speaker 1: probably keep their aquatic ecosystem clean, whereas pandas just poop
28:37
Speaker 1: everywhere and they don't do anything to clean up their ecosystem.
28:42
Speaker 1: I wonder what the scientific ethics are. Maybe a researcher
28:44
Speaker 1: can tell us about where funding goes, like if you know,
28:49
Speaker 1: if they're like, well, let's divert some of that to
28:51
Speaker 1: um this other species, whereas the individual who donate might
28:54
Speaker 1: be like, no, just pandas. Well. That was actually brought
28:57
Speaker 1: up in the in this larger article that survey of
29:00
Speaker 1: like the seventy other articles about charismatic megafauna, and they
29:03
Speaker 1: said that that could be an issue. Some donors want
29:07
Speaker 1: to know that their money is going towards what they
29:09
Speaker 1: donated it. And if you think you donated it to
29:13
Speaker 1: save pandas, and these guys are being like, yeah, yeah,
29:15
Speaker 1: we're helping pandas, but we're also helping these snakes. But
29:19
Speaker 1: you hate snakes. You might be unhappy that your money's
29:23
Speaker 1: helping snakes, you though the snakes really need the help. Yeah.
29:26
Speaker 1: One thing I have noticed with donation sites is a
29:28
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll have that and then let's say,
29:30
Speaker 1: would you also like to donate five dollars to the
29:32
Speaker 1: general fund um stuff, you know, so you can help
29:36
Speaker 1: the snake. Yeah, And there's not one that says the
29:40
Speaker 1: general fund and no, but no, snakes right now, there's
29:43
Speaker 1: not an option you're doing. You're donating the snakes with
29:46
Speaker 1: the general fund. You know, there's also the issue of
29:49
Speaker 1: it being a totally unscientific idea. It's completely subjective. Like
29:54
Speaker 1: even here in the West, people are like, well, lions
29:57
Speaker 1: are beautiful and majestic, but if you talk to um
30:01
Speaker 1: school kids in Tanzania, they'll say, actually, lions are quite
30:04
Speaker 1: fearsome because we live near them, and um, I have
30:08
Speaker 1: a friend whose uncle was killed by a lion. Right,
30:12
Speaker 1: so you can't even agree on what what um what
30:17
Speaker 1: animals have charisma? Even even you know, it seems like
30:22
Speaker 1: a foregone conclusion to us, the people who are carrying
30:26
Speaker 1: out these conservation efforts and who are donating the conservation
30:29
Speaker 1: dollars aren't the ones who have to actually live with
30:32
Speaker 1: these animals as well. Right, So, if you're an organization
30:36
Speaker 1: who's getting conservation dollars from these people to save these
30:39
Speaker 1: animals that the locals actually hate, you're gonna have a
30:43
Speaker 1: problem here. So what are some of the solutions to
30:46
Speaker 1: these to to what what can you do as a
30:51
Speaker 1: conservationist if you're facing this this issue where you need
30:56
Speaker 1: money but you also need to be realistic at the
30:59
Speaker 1: feeling you have an answer and wait. Well, one of
31:03
Speaker 1: the one of the great suggestions that I've run across
31:07
Speaker 1: is um you can talk about these species that people like,
31:12
Speaker 1: but just talk about them in in realistic terms and
31:16
Speaker 1: don't say how cute they are and all that stuff. Yeah,
31:18
Speaker 1: or don't make it sound like they're the most important
31:20
Speaker 1: animal on the planet, right, like put it in its
31:23
Speaker 1: relative context, right. Or this one is even better. Take
31:28
Speaker 1: an actual keystone species from an ecosystem that's in real
31:31
Speaker 1: danger of becoming instinct, and then put your marketing people
31:35
Speaker 1: to work on creating charisma for that animal, because you
31:40
Speaker 1: know what, they could do that in most cases, unless
31:43
Speaker 1: it's a komodo dragon. No, it's actually a really great
31:47
Speaker 1: example of of them doing that. Well. I was about
31:51
Speaker 1: the reason I mentioned that because I was that was
31:53
Speaker 1: one of my favorite animals at the Atlanta Zoo. Was.
31:56
Speaker 1: I could sit around and watch that komodo dragon for days. Yeah,
31:58
Speaker 1: he was so cool looking, but a lot of people
32:01
Speaker 1: might not think so. So Like Charon Stone, apparently there
32:05
Speaker 1: was a huge what Jaron Stone's ex husband was bitten
32:08
Speaker 1: by a komodo dragon very famously? Was he hurt? Ye
32:12
Speaker 1: did he die, No, that's not why he's an ex.
32:15
Speaker 1: Did he lose a toe? Well, I should say he's
32:17
Speaker 1: an ex because he got bitten by the komodo dragon,
32:19
Speaker 1: but just because she was embarrassed by it, so she
32:21
Speaker 1: divorced him. No, okay, she's like, oh my god, I
32:25
Speaker 1: can't even go out in public now see you later.
32:28
Speaker 1: You've mortified me. Yeah. I figured you would have known
32:31
Speaker 1: about that. It was a very not funny for him,
32:34
Speaker 1: funny for everybody everyone else. No, but apparently there was
32:39
Speaker 1: a big local push to save komodo dragons. They were
32:42
Speaker 1: not well liked, but they put some top marketing people
32:46
Speaker 1: on it and gave the komodo dragon chrisma, like just
32:49
Speaker 1: pointing to a panda bear and being like pretty cute. Huh.
32:52
Speaker 1: That doesn't take any marketing skill. It takes real marketing
32:55
Speaker 1: skill to take a hated and reviled animal that needs
33:00
Speaker 1: human help and make it charming. You know who could
33:04
Speaker 1: solve all of this, God Disney. Oh yeah, you know.
33:10
Speaker 1: All you gotta do is make a movie about a
33:12
Speaker 1: Komodo dragon is the hero. Sure, and and literally that
33:16
Speaker 1: would change everything. Somebody needs to throw out Walt Disney. Yeah,
33:21
Speaker 1: he's still frozen. I don't know if that's true or
33:24
Speaker 1: an urban legend or not. We should get Holly from
33:26
Speaker 1: my stuff you miss in history class in here. Well,
33:28
Speaker 1: we did an episode on criegenics, and I'm sure we
33:30
Speaker 1: covered it, but that was a long time ago. Holly,
33:33
Speaker 1: for all I know, might have Walt Disney frozen in
33:34
Speaker 1: her house. She might you know, being held captive. Uh
33:40
Speaker 1: So should we talk a little bit about bio diversity.
33:43
Speaker 1: I think we should and why that's important because that's
33:45
Speaker 1: kind of what we're talking about here in a roundabout ways.
33:48
Speaker 1: A healthy ecosystem depends on biodiversity. And that doesn't just
33:53
Speaker 1: mean what's known as species diversity or species richness, which is,
33:58
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of different animals. That's what most
34:00
Speaker 1: people think of when they think of biodiversity. It's a
34:02
Speaker 1: lot more complex than that. Yeah, So there's, um, there's
34:05
Speaker 1: species diversity, like you said, there's also a genetic diversity,
34:09
Speaker 1: which is the combined number of genes that's available to
34:13
Speaker 1: uh species worldwide. And the more genetic diversity of species
34:18
Speaker 1: have them, the easier it can withstand um things like disease.
34:24
Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, some individuals are gonna die, but overall the
34:28
Speaker 1: species should be able to survive it because there's probably
34:31
Speaker 1: a gene in there somewhere that can combat this disease
34:34
Speaker 1: or is immune to this disease, and they'll develop an
34:36
Speaker 1: immunity to it. The species will go on. So species
34:39
Speaker 1: diversity is a very important type of biodiversity too. Yeah,
34:43
Speaker 1: like bald eagle again, genetic diversity. Sorry, yeah, yeah, bald
34:47
Speaker 1: eagle good example because they are spread out all over, Uh,
34:50
Speaker 1: well not all over, but in those certain places in
34:53
Speaker 1: North America give them good genetic diversity. Uh, Thus they
34:56
Speaker 1: were able to come back. The cheetah um not so much.
35:01
Speaker 1: Back in the day, there was only one species, I
35:03
Speaker 1: think around ten thousand years ago. Yeah, I didn't see
35:06
Speaker 1: what happened to the species or the cheated Did you
35:08
Speaker 1: what all the other species? Yeah, I don't know. That's
35:10
Speaker 1: pretty bizarre. Just one survived, Yeah, the uh sen Nick's jubats.
35:20
Speaker 1: I think that's right. In Africa and um, that was
35:25
Speaker 1: a problem because when you just have one species, you're
35:27
Speaker 1: in breeding a lot and your genetic diversity goes way
35:30
Speaker 1: down and all of a sudden, you uh, one thing
35:33
Speaker 1: could come along and wipe you out. Exactly when one
35:35
Speaker 1: disease or something um And then there's also ecosystem diversity,
35:39
Speaker 1: which is the number of different types of ecosystems around
35:43
Speaker 1: the world, and the more you have those, the better
35:45
Speaker 1: off you are. It's kind of like bio diversity is
35:48
Speaker 1: a really good example of not having all of your
35:50
Speaker 1: eggs in one basket. Yeah, you want to diversify. It's
35:53
Speaker 1: the same thing with stocks and bonds, that's right, you know. Uh,
35:57
Speaker 1: And as humans, bio diversity is a big deal because
36:01
Speaker 1: of medicine that we use that comes from plants. Let's say, uh,
36:07
Speaker 1: what else, clothes that we wear from plants, and animal fibers,
36:11
Speaker 1: what we eat. That's another big one too. Can't forget that. Yeah,
36:14
Speaker 1: And the point is it's all linked, like you talked
36:16
Speaker 1: about earlier. The wolf population will have a or the
36:21
Speaker 1: honeybee population will have an effect on down the line
36:24
Speaker 1: because it's all one big linked puzzle, and something like
36:27
Speaker 1: colony collapse disorder can foul it up to the point
36:31
Speaker 1: where just because the honeybee are the crop production as
36:34
Speaker 1: a whole in the United States is in trouble right right,
36:38
Speaker 1: So there's and it seems kind of remedial that to
36:41
Speaker 1: go over it, but it's important to point out, like,
36:44
Speaker 1: what's at stake here when you're talking about extinction? Right,
36:47
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, we don't have honey anymore, right now,
36:50
Speaker 1: there's the entire ecosystems can fail, And when entire ecosystems fail,
36:54
Speaker 1: the world gets a little less bio diverse. And when
36:56
Speaker 1: that happens, it's a little more fragile, and it just
36:59
Speaker 1: keeps getting set up more and more and more for
37:02
Speaker 1: some sort of larger collapse that's more than just say
37:05
Speaker 1: a honeybee collapse. UM and apparently the big one, the
37:10
Speaker 1: big daddy as far as UM as reduction of biodiversity goes, Well,
37:15
Speaker 1: there's two of them. One is invasive species. Yeah, I
37:19
Speaker 1: didn't know we should do a show on We're gonna
37:22
Speaker 1: do one on cuts at one point. I don't know
37:24
Speaker 1: if that's two separate shows or not. I don't know,
37:27
Speaker 1: but I did and realized that invasive species caused that
37:30
Speaker 1: much damage. Yeah, there's something like um half of all
37:33
Speaker 1: of the extinction special extinctions since the sixteen hundreds they
37:38
Speaker 1: attribute to invasive species, where it's just you know, you've
37:42
Speaker 1: got a species that's introduced into a new um ecosystem,
37:46
Speaker 1: doesn't have any predators, so it it preys on other
37:50
Speaker 1: things and reproduces unchecked and just totally throws off the ecosystem. Right.
37:55
Speaker 1: Half of extinction comes from invasive species, and then another third,
38:00
Speaker 1: six percent apparently comes from deforestation, right yeah, I mean
38:03
Speaker 1: the other two big ones are over hunting, um, like
38:06
Speaker 1: we were talking about with like the rhino and elephants
38:10
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and back in our pigeons episode
38:14
Speaker 1: literally calls the extinction of the passenger pigeon. Uh. And
38:17
Speaker 1: then climate changes the fourth which um, sort of just
38:21
Speaker 1: getting started on that one. So I would that's an
38:23
Speaker 1: increasingly becoming a problem with animals force from their habitats.
38:27
Speaker 1: But deforestation is the big daddy. Yeah, and apparently one
38:31
Speaker 1: of the big issues with deforestation, although there has been
38:34
Speaker 1: a lot of headway made with slowing deforestation. Um. But
38:38
Speaker 1: the rainforest is particularly vulnerable because it covers about seven
38:43
Speaker 1: percent of Earth's land mass, but it houses about half
38:47
Speaker 1: of Earth's species. That's crazy, right, So there's that problem
38:51
Speaker 1: with a lot of eggs in one basket. If you
38:53
Speaker 1: mess with that basket, you're you're in big trouble. I
38:57
Speaker 1: think that's how the saying goes, right. So um, one
39:02
Speaker 1: of the problems with deforestation is that if you are
39:06
Speaker 1: developing economy and you've got a lot of economic activity
39:10
Speaker 1: that can be gained by cutting down the rainforest, it's
39:13
Speaker 1: kind of tough de fault that that economy to say,
39:17
Speaker 1: what are you doing? You know, we as humanity need that.
39:21
Speaker 1: That's nature's pharmacy, right. Um. There's also apparently a lot
39:26
Speaker 1: of issue with indigenous peoples in rainforests as well, that
39:31
Speaker 1: a lot of them are like, well they're indigenous people,
39:33
Speaker 1: they know what they're doing. Well, they're also like deforesting
39:36
Speaker 1: the rainforest themselves as well. So there's a lot of
39:39
Speaker 1: programs that have been put into place to reduce deforestation,
39:44
Speaker 1: and like I said, they're having an effect. Apparently, within
39:46
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, deforestation has fallen like year
39:51
Speaker 1: over year in Brazil, which is where a lot of
39:54
Speaker 1: it was happening. So the idea of deforestation not happening
39:59
Speaker 1: in UM Brazil are happening less. That's a big deal. Yeah,
40:03
Speaker 1: And they have found a direct correlation between um the
40:07
Speaker 1: local economy being less reliant on the rainforest and having
40:14
Speaker 1: like a healthy economy doesn't that doesn't depend on the
40:17
Speaker 1: rainforest and deforestation decreasing, so it's you know, it's not
40:22
Speaker 1: rocket science, and thanks to Don Henley it's all getting
40:26
Speaker 1: better and Al Gore and Tom Petty. All Don Henley
40:30
Speaker 1: does is helped the rainforest and be a jerk and
40:33
Speaker 1: sue people. Who does he sue dude? Done. Henley sues everybody,
40:37
Speaker 1: sue everybody, shoes, sue. He sues Sharon Stone's husband. I
40:42
Speaker 1: think so now he's sort of a notorious jerk as
40:44
Speaker 1: far as like, oh you you know you used this
40:49
Speaker 1: Eagle song when you weren't supposed to and taking you
40:52
Speaker 1: to court and then I'll cut you. Man. He like
40:54
Speaker 1: one of my favorite bands, and then I'll cut you.
40:57
Speaker 1: That's not a peaceful, easy feeling at all. Um Okerville
41:01
Speaker 1: River one of my favorite bands. They kind of reworked
41:05
Speaker 1: a Don Henley song as a homage and a tribute
41:09
Speaker 1: and it didn't even like I think they just put
41:11
Speaker 1: it on the web. They weren't like trying to make
41:13
Speaker 1: money off of it, and they're like, man, we love
41:16
Speaker 1: this song. We kind of reworked it and like here
41:17
Speaker 1: it is. And he was like, shut it down, get
41:20
Speaker 1: it off the internet. I'm suing you, little indie band. Yeah,
41:23
Speaker 1: And then will Chef there, uh, their lead singer and songwriter.
41:28
Speaker 1: He was just sort of like, man, really thanks a lot. Yeah,
41:32
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have my Eagles tattooed. Grade it off, no more,
41:38
Speaker 1: no more homages to you, sir. It was the end
41:40
Speaker 1: of will Chef's innocence about Don Henley. Uh, I'm gonna
41:46
Speaker 1: see Joe Walsh to More Night and Tom Petty he's
41:49
Speaker 1: opening up, wow, which I'm pretty excited about. Usually openers
41:53
Speaker 1: at those big shows or I don't know, they don't
41:55
Speaker 1: do a good job pairing them sometimes. Yeah. Like I
42:00
Speaker 1: saw Elton John once and he had these two cello
42:02
Speaker 1: players yo yo maa yeah, and his and his brother. No.
42:08
Speaker 1: It was I mean it was kind of neat. That's
42:09
Speaker 1: the only cello player and they were I can't remember
42:12
Speaker 1: their names, and I'm sure there are tons of people
42:14
Speaker 1: that are fans of these guys because they play like
42:17
Speaker 1: like A C. D C songs on the cello and
42:18
Speaker 1: it's really sort of yah. I mean it was cool,
42:21
Speaker 1: but I don't know, like I just wanted to. I
42:24
Speaker 1: want to see Joe Walsh open up for everybody, so
42:26
Speaker 1: um you me and I went and saw Cindy lawper
42:29
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and Dr John opened for Yeah,
42:33
Speaker 1: that's not a good pairing. It well, so it was
42:35
Speaker 1: an amazing show, both of them were, but um, it
42:39
Speaker 1: was like the Doctor John show happened, and then everyone left,
42:43
Speaker 1: everyone came in for Cindy Lauper. It was a very
42:46
Speaker 1: weird pairing. I think Cindy Lauper's is like a Doctor
42:49
Speaker 1: John fan and wanted to make sure he got some
42:51
Speaker 1: money that year or something right. But it was like
42:53
Speaker 1: two different shows, like an early show in a late
42:56
Speaker 1: show as far as the audience was concerned. Yeah, I
42:59
Speaker 1: saw Josh Grobin open up for Iron Maid, and I
43:01
Speaker 1: thought that was strange too. Well, Bruce Dickinson is a
43:04
Speaker 1: well known operatic singer. Oh that's true, so I can Yeah,
43:09
Speaker 1: tattooed millionaire pilot man. Not what a great ending? Or
43:14
Speaker 1: are we done? Did you have anything else? Nope? All right.
43:17
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about Iron Maiden bio diversity,
43:20
Speaker 1: Josh Groban, yo yo, ma, all that jazz, type those
43:24
Speaker 1: words in the search bar at how stuff works dot
43:26
Speaker 1: com and press your luck. Since I said press your luck,
43:29
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail All that Jazz, and then
43:34
Speaker 1: of which was jazz. Alright, Um, I wonder where that
43:38
Speaker 1: term came from. Just I think it's from the Great
43:42
Speaker 1: White Way, right. I mean there was a show called
43:46
Speaker 1: All That Jazz, But I invent that, I think, So okay,
43:50
Speaker 1: that's all it. This is from I'm gonna call this
43:53
Speaker 1: from our old buddy, Sarah Law. Who's our oldest. Um.
43:57
Speaker 1: I always say oldest like she's night long the longest lasting,
44:01
Speaker 1: longest running band. Yeah, long standing listeners from Canada. Hey, guys, Josh,
44:07
Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry. Can you still not spell Jerry? Right,
44:12
Speaker 1: Sarah after all these years, I just spell it Gary
44:15
Speaker 1: with a G Gary j E r I everybody, Um,
44:20
Speaker 1: I know you guys love animals, so I thought it'd
44:21
Speaker 1: be great if you could share this, uh stuff you shnow.
44:24
Speaker 1: Army story friend needed to give up his cat for
44:27
Speaker 1: adoption because he's moving out of the United States due
44:30
Speaker 1: to health issues of the cat. Shelters would not take her.
44:33
Speaker 1: He was going to have to put her down, which
44:36
Speaker 1: I can't believe that's the solution, Like I gotta move,
44:39
Speaker 1: I'll just put you down. That aside. Um, I put
44:42
Speaker 1: out a ninth hour call. I think it's eleventh hour
44:45
Speaker 1: in the United States. Apparently in candidates a night hour.
44:49
Speaker 1: Uh put out a night hour call to this stuffy
44:51
Speaker 1: snow army and a nice person named Kevin Lyman asked
44:56
Speaker 1: everyone he knew if they could take her. And I'm
44:59
Speaker 1: happy to say that Evan's coworker cat. But the k
45:03
Speaker 1: picked Ava up and Ava as a cat from the
45:06
Speaker 1: vet appointment to save her life and then took her
45:09
Speaker 1: to be put down. No, I saw a picture. This
45:12
Speaker 1: cat was adorable. Uh, never underestimate the power of the stuff.
45:16
Speaker 1: You should know, Army and I think she shared this
45:18
Speaker 1: on Facebook and it, you know, it kind of happened that. Yeah,
45:21
Speaker 1: that's great. I love the show. Thank you for enriching
45:24
Speaker 1: our lives in so many ways. Your Canadian friend Sarah
45:26
Speaker 1: O x O thinks a lot. Sarah though was a
45:29
Speaker 1: great story. Yeah, it was appropriate for this. I told
45:32
Speaker 1: Sarah that, oh yeah, do you think about that? Cats
45:34
Speaker 1: are charismatic mini fauna. I told Sarah, we uh, an
45:39
Speaker 1: all likelihood are going to be coming up to the
45:42
Speaker 1: Great White Way, and I hope that's what it is
45:46
Speaker 1: for some shows this year. We're gonna be hit in Canada.
45:48
Speaker 1: I think so at least one. Yeah, we've been teasing
45:51
Speaker 1: these shows, but we're kind of nailing it all down.
45:55
Speaker 1: So listen up, all eight of you who still listen
45:57
Speaker 1: this deep into the show. We might be coming to
45:59
Speaker 1: a town near you. Yeah, and let everybody else know. Uh.
46:02
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this, you
46:04
Speaker 1: can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast.
46:06
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff
46:08
Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us email to stuff
46:11
Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff works dot com. Has always joined
46:14
Speaker 1: us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should
46:16
Speaker 1: Know dot com. For more on this and thousands of
46:22
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com