Latest / Silver FM 100.6 / Practical advice for modern dads

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Practical advice for modern dads · Silver FM 100.6

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Speaker 7: This is NPR's Life Kit.
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Speaker 6: I'm Mary el Segatwa.
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Speaker 7: Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle.
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Speaker 8: Hi, Hi, Mary Elle, good morning.
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Speaker 7: One of your favorite topics I feel like on Life
0:37
Speaker 7: Kit is the mental load. What does it mean?
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Speaker 1: The mental load?
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Speaker 8: The mental load is so many things. It's sometimes called
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Speaker 8: invisible labor. It's all that behind the scenes thinking, planning, organizing, executing.
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Speaker 8: It's everything it takes to keep a household running and off.
1:00
Speaker 8: In times, it falls on one person more than the other.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, I feel like when we talk about the mental load,
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Speaker 7: we're often talking about women and moms. Why is that.
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Speaker 8: Because you know, in aggregate, that's what the data shows.
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Speaker 8: You know, in most heterosexual relationships, it's the female that
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Speaker 8: takes on the line share of the work because you know, socialization,
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Speaker 8: even when both partners are working, even when both partners
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Speaker 8: make the same amount of money. That's not the truth
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Speaker 8: of every individual relationship or every individual family. I know
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Speaker 8: lots of super involved dads. My dad is one of them,
1:37
Speaker 8: my husband is one of them. I know dad's who
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Speaker 8: are the primary parent. But in aggregate overall, that's what
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Speaker 8: the data shows.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, the data doesn't tell the whole picture. And I
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Speaker 7: guess that is something that you heard after you did
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Speaker 7: your last episode on the Mental Load. You heard from
1:55
Speaker 7: a bunch of dads, right.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, So a big inspiration for today's episode is a
2:00
Speaker 8: recent story we did that wasn't exclusively for women and moms,
2:04
Speaker 8: but because it was about the mental Load, a lot
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Speaker 8: of the language was directed toward only them, and some
2:10
Speaker 8: of the examples were gendered. So I heard from a
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Speaker 8: lot of men and husbands and fathers being like, hey,
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Speaker 8: you know, we want to be a part of this conversation.
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Speaker 8: They felt, you know, excluded, They said, you know, like
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Speaker 8: we are really involved too, you know, we are here,
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Speaker 8: we contribute what gibs And I was like, fair, and
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Speaker 8: you know, the research backs these guys up. The winds
2:32
Speaker 8: are changing. One recent study found that American dads are
2:35
Speaker 8: spending more time on household and child wearing activities than
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Speaker 8: in the previous two decades.
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Speaker 7: So this is a mail bag episode of Father's Day
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Speaker 7: mail Bag.
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Speaker 6: Who are your experts?
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Speaker 8: One of them is Kevin Maguire. So he's a consultant
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Speaker 8: an author of the new book The New Fatherhood, which
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Speaker 8: is also the name of his very popular newsletter and
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Speaker 8: community about all things fatherhood.
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Speaker 4: There is just this huge scope really kind of like
3:02
Speaker 4: the dads who embrace fatherhood. It's almost that maxing right,
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Speaker 4: like to really seeks to get the very most that
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Speaker 4: they can get out of their relationships with their children.
3:11
Speaker 8: And then our other expert is David Defo. He's a
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Speaker 8: clinical psychologist and also a friend of the Pod.
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Speaker 2: I think that it's important for us to sort of,
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Speaker 2: you know, give men credit because men are showing up more.
3:23
Speaker 2: And I think the part of that is because while
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Speaker 2: we have so much longer to go, we are beginning
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Speaker 2: to develop the emotional strength to you know, express ourselves
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Speaker 2: better so that we know how to show up better.
3:35
Speaker 8: There is no shortage of things to talk about. So
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Speaker 8: that's what we have for you for this episode. Lots
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Speaker 8: of practical advice for modern dads, things like anger and
3:45
Speaker 8: how to express it in a healthy way, friendship and
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Speaker 8: where to find it, and how to navigate high stressed
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Speaker 8: parenting situations with your partner, and lots more.
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Speaker 8: First up, we've got a question surrounding gender roles high.
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Speaker 10: Life Kit friends. This is rocked around from Saint Louis.
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Speaker 10: I'm a single dad raising a five year old daughter,
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Speaker 10: and I find myself wrestling with questions about what should
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Speaker 10: I teach her about men. On one hand, I see
5:36
Speaker 10: the real dangers women face. Stories of harassment and assault
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Speaker 10: are everywhere. What should I be teaching her so she
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Speaker 10: can feel safe, strong and respected without growing up seeing
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Speaker 10: every man as a danger.
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Speaker 8: I thought that was an excellent question. I know that
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Speaker 8: as a mother to a son, this is something I
5:56
Speaker 8: struggle with. I wonder if you have any advice for
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Speaker 8: our listener.
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Speaker 2: That's a very courageous question, and I applaud you for
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Speaker 2: the question. And I think the most important thing that
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Speaker 2: we can do for our daughters is to be that
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Speaker 2: present example where I am Now my daughter is fourteen.
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Speaker 2: I think for me, it's making sure that she knows
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Speaker 2: that what a man provides should look safe, it should
6:23
Speaker 2: look steady, and that she's protected, that she's loved. It's
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Speaker 2: also about how that person shows up to handle your emotions,
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Speaker 2: to handle the myriad of concerns that come to you.
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Speaker 2: And for me, I think that one of the things
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Speaker 2: that was most challenging was when my daughter hit puberty.
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Speaker 2: I noticed that I started to retreat because things got
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Speaker 2: a little I'll be honest, things got a little awkward
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Speaker 2: and I don't understand. And so for this gentleman that's
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Speaker 2: a single father, I would just say that when that
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Speaker 2: does come, you know, make sure that you stay engaged,
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Speaker 2: make sure that you the attentive, that you don't get
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Speaker 2: uncomfortable when things do change, but yet you know, you
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Speaker 2: stay that present help to her.
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Speaker 4: I love that, David, And you know, it really feels
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Speaker 4: like as a father of adult who's on the verge
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Speaker 4: of entering her teenage years, really kind of keeping those
7:17
Speaker 4: channels of communication open and making her feel safe and
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Speaker 4: secure that she can come to me with anything. You know,
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Speaker 4: it's not just like go to your mom. And I
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Speaker 4: think that's one of the one of the big shifts
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Speaker 4: that we've seen in fatherhood is really the idea that
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Speaker 4: you know, more men are really taking responsibility not just
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Speaker 4: for the things that fatherhood has traditionally been known for,
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Speaker 4: but the emotional side of things as well. Just to
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Speaker 4: just to address the question, you know, I think this
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Speaker 4: is kind of just one of the biggest things that
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Speaker 4: we're all trying to navigate as parents today, which is like,
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Speaker 4: how do we raise our children to be just aware
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Speaker 4: of what is going on in the world without being
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Speaker 4: terrified of it.
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Speaker 7: You know.
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Speaker 4: It could be the days that a young woman will
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Speaker 4: face from other men, It could be the kind of
8:04
Speaker 4: the climate crisis, could be political. What I often think
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Speaker 4: about when I think about my daughter is just like,
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Speaker 4: how do I allow her to keep that curiosity and
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Speaker 4: excitement that she has about the world and not to
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Speaker 4: dampen that? And the job that we do as parents
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Speaker 4: is to try and help shepherd them through that path.
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Speaker 8: Okay, moving on to our next question. It seems like
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Speaker 8: there are an infinite number of resources for mommy meetup groups,
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Speaker 8: but not a ton of options for fathers. I'd like
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Speaker 8: to have more of a support group the way that
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Speaker 8: my wife does, specifically something separate from just the partners
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Speaker 8: of her friends. But I don't really know what to
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Speaker 8: do about it when I barely have enough time and
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Speaker 8: energy in the day to spend with my family.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we don't prioritize friendships and connections. It
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Speaker 4: feels like a heavy load, like we feel that we
8:51
Speaker 4: need to be invited to these things when everyone is
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Speaker 4: crying out, like there's so many men are yearning for
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Speaker 4: any of community, and all it takes is just to
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Speaker 4: start something up. I holst the meet up for dads.
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Speaker 4: It's on the third Wednesday of the month, and I
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Speaker 4: made it as low stakes as possible. I said, I
9:09
Speaker 4: am going to go to this bar. I'm going to
9:12
Speaker 4: bring a book. If anyone joins me, I would rather
9:15
Speaker 4: talk to you than read the book. But if nobody
9:18
Speaker 4: turns up, it's fine. And regularly now there's twenty of
9:22
Speaker 4: us that have connected to each other over this idea
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Speaker 4: of a deeper, more richer sense of what fatherhood could
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Speaker 4: look like.
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Speaker 2: I think even also how we form friendships are different,
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Speaker 2: which I think Kevin sort of mentioned. Women. Of course,
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Speaker 2: their friendships are often face to face. Men we're more
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Speaker 2: so shoulder to shoulder. We have to be doing something.
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Speaker 2: There has to be some activity, you know, a basketball
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Speaker 2: run or a project or a group or something like that,
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Speaker 2: or even as Kevin said, you know, saying I'm going
9:49
Speaker 2: to meet in this bar, and what is the purpose
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Speaker 2: of meeting in the bar? Not to talk about this
9:53
Speaker 2: particular topic, but we're going to have some beers and
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Speaker 2: whatever comes up comes up. And that's perfectly fine. Find
10:00
Speaker 2: connection not by happenstance anymore, especially when you get older.
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Speaker 2: It has to be some intentionality, you know. It has
10:09
Speaker 2: to be something that's scheduled, and it has to be
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Speaker 2: something that we can then defend and put some structure
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Speaker 2: around to say, you know what, this is what I
10:16
Speaker 2: do every Thursday with this group of people.
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Speaker 4: And people are looking for that excuse to have these connections.
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Speaker 4: When I talk to younger dads, there is a real
10:26
Speaker 4: drive to connect together in more meaningful ways, even if
10:32
Speaker 4: that means confronting feelings. You know, I think the all
10:35
Speaker 4: of these men's circles that are starting to become more
10:38
Speaker 4: and more popular now you know, I've been I've run
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Speaker 4: a few of them myself, both online and in person,
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Speaker 4: and they are very much not shoulder to shoulder by definition.
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Speaker 4: You know, I think this idea of men becoming more
10:53
Speaker 4: emotionally intelligent, emotionally resilient and finding the space to do
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Speaker 4: it with other men who are trying to do that
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Speaker 4: work too. I think is one of the biggest shifts
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Speaker 4: I've seen in fatherhood for this generation.
11:06
Speaker 8: So what are you waiting for? Take a quick break
11:09
Speaker 8: with us and text that dad friend of daycare to
11:11
Speaker 8: schedule a meet up for a beer or a van session.
11:13
Speaker 8: You have to talk about this podcast let me come back.
11:17
Speaker 8: We'll talk about working through anger, dealing with parenting, stress
11:20
Speaker 8: in your relationship, and managing the mental load.
11:27
Speaker 3: This week on Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me, we ask
11:28
Speaker 3: comedy legend Robert Smigel about the moment he first knew
11:31
Speaker 3: he was funny.
11:32
Speaker 11: When I was like four or five, I could draw
11:35
Speaker 11: really well, so I could draw Fred Flintstone and Snoopy,
11:39
Speaker 11: and then probably a couple of years later I started
11:42
Speaker 11: drawing them having sex.
11:45
Speaker 3: Listen to the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me podcast and
11:47
Speaker 3: the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
11:51
Speaker 12: On the next through line from NPR, the story of
11:54
Speaker 12: the World Cup and what happened when a tournament imagined
11:58
Speaker 12: to promote peace in a country primed for war.
12:02
Speaker 13: There's obvious reasons why neighboring countries will be rivals.
12:06
Speaker 4: This manifest particularly in football.
12:08
Speaker 12: Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
12:15
Speaker 1: On NPR's Wildcard podcast, author Dave Egger shares the advice
12:18
Speaker 1: he gives young people about AI.
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Speaker 14: You are one of one, unprecedented in the history of
12:24
Speaker 14: human evolution. There's only one of you, So to give
12:26
Speaker 14: your voice to a machine to say speak for me
12:30
Speaker 14: is such a crime against yourself.
12:33
Speaker 1: Watch or listen to that Wildcard conversation on the NPR
12:36
Speaker 1: app or on YouTube at NPR Wildcard.
12:39
Speaker 8: The next topic I have for you is anger. I'm
12:42
Speaker 8: thinking about how a lot of the dads in my
12:43
Speaker 8: circle are determined to be better emotional role models for
12:47
Speaker 8: their kids, but were raised by fathers who either didn't
12:51
Speaker 8: talk about their feelings or had that I'll give you
12:53
Speaker 8: something to cry about attitude. Can we talk a little
12:57
Speaker 8: about why it can be so much more difficult for
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Speaker 8: men to express their feelings generally and towards their kids specifically.
13:03
Speaker 2: I don't think that we were taught how we don't
13:06
Speaker 2: have a good example. Society tells us. You know, men
13:09
Speaker 2: don't cry, men out to be strong, suck it up.
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Speaker 2: Whatever it is that people say. The thing is when
13:15
Speaker 2: we don't have the emotional vocabulary to express how we're feeling.
13:18
Speaker 2: Instead it comes out in negative behavior. You know, I
13:20
Speaker 2: don't know who said it, but someone once said, you
13:22
Speaker 2: act out what you won't talk out or cry out,
13:26
Speaker 2: and so it comes out instead in negative behavior and
13:29
Speaker 2: pinned up emotions. And so I think it's important for
13:33
Speaker 2: men to go through the process of developing the emotional
13:37
Speaker 2: vocabulary so they can speak to how they feel, so
13:40
Speaker 2: that they can talk honestly to their children, so that
13:43
Speaker 2: there's not like things like displacement happening. So because I
13:46
Speaker 2: can't tell the boss how I really feel, I'm going
13:49
Speaker 2: to come home and I'm going to take that out
13:51
Speaker 2: on you or I'm short with you because I'm upset
13:53
Speaker 2: over here. I'm not processing how I'm feeling over here.
13:56
Speaker 2: And that we could do that professionally, and we also
13:59
Speaker 2: can do that on our own.
14:01
Speaker 8: You know.
14:01
Speaker 4: For me, I'm one of those I don't get angry
14:04
Speaker 4: kind of guys, like, ah, I don't get angry. And
14:07
Speaker 4: I was almost boasting to my therapist and saying, hey,
14:09
Speaker 4: I only think I lost my temper like five times
14:12
Speaker 4: in the last ten years, and she said, well, what
14:16
Speaker 4: if your kid came in and intentionally just smashed something
14:20
Speaker 4: of yours that you cared about, And I said, well,
14:23
Speaker 4: I think I would just stand up and walk away,
14:25
Speaker 4: and she said, well, you know, why don't you tell
14:28
Speaker 4: them that you're feeling angry. So for me, it's been
14:30
Speaker 4: a real process of learning to allow myself to be
14:35
Speaker 4: angry in a weird way when a situation arises in
14:37
Speaker 4: the house, and I think, is anger a proportional response?
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Speaker 8: Right now, that's a really interesting inverse. I think of
14:44
Speaker 8: what David was saying earlier. David, I wonder if you
14:47
Speaker 8: could tell us what does what does good anger? What
14:49
Speaker 8: does healthy anger look like?
14:50
Speaker 2: I say to my clients all the time. An if
14:53
Speaker 2: you can make any emotion, even if it's anxiety, if
14:57
Speaker 2: you can make it useful, you can keep it. Anger
15:00
Speaker 2: is a natural human response when lines have been crossed.
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Speaker 2: The only question is well, what do I then do
15:06
Speaker 2: with it? So if I can get it targeted, and
15:09
Speaker 2: if I can aim my anger at the right place,
15:11
Speaker 2: so then it actually solves my problem in a bit
15:15
Speaker 2: official way, as opposed to deteriorating my relationships, as opposed
15:19
Speaker 2: to it coming out with cynicism, with disrespect or even aggression,
15:25
Speaker 2: then I can keep it. Then it's been official, so
15:27
Speaker 2: I grow from it as opposed to blowing up from it.
15:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, or David, or as we all to often do,
15:33
Speaker 4: is turn the anger in on ourselves if we can't
15:36
Speaker 4: find a good place for it.
15:39
Speaker 2: That's where guilt and shame then comes in. You know,
15:42
Speaker 2: where we start to get angry at ourselves.
15:45
Speaker 8: So anger doesn't have to be a bad thing. If
15:48
Speaker 8: you can understand it, then use it right.
15:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're pointed in the right direction.
15:52
Speaker 1: Okay.
15:53
Speaker 8: The last question I bring you is from right here
15:55
Speaker 8: at home in San Diego. I asked my husband, a
15:59
Speaker 8: modern dad, what he might need some help with. His
16:02
Speaker 8: name is Andres Albert cart and us. He gave it
16:04
Speaker 8: a think, and he came back with a question about
16:07
Speaker 8: dealing with stressful parenting situations with your partner.
16:10
Speaker 13: Here he is our son has been waking up all
16:13
Speaker 13: hours of the night screaming for his mom, even though
16:15
Speaker 13: just a few months back he was able to self
16:17
Speaker 13: soothe and put himself back down. We have a general
16:20
Speaker 13: game plan, but he keeps waking up with different wants
16:23
Speaker 13: and needs, and because we sometimes add to the chaos
16:26
Speaker 13: by disagreeing. So do you all have any strategies on
16:29
Speaker 13: how to quickly get on the same page with your
16:31
Speaker 13: partner when it's necessary to improvise well.
16:34
Speaker 4: First and they like to your husband props for the
16:37
Speaker 4: question first up on the second one. When I was
16:40
Speaker 4: listening to it, my mind immediately went back to my
16:43
Speaker 4: wedding day. Actually, and just as we were leaving, there
16:47
Speaker 4: was this old couple that came up to us just
16:49
Speaker 4: as we were getting in the car, and I remember
16:53
Speaker 4: so vividly, and they walked up to us and they smiled,
16:56
Speaker 4: and the husband said, Hey, you're going to have some
16:59
Speaker 4: good times, to have some bad times, but no matter
17:02
Speaker 4: what happens, remember this, you're on the same team. And
17:07
Speaker 4: I think this so often with parenting, which is like,
17:11
Speaker 4: how do you both put yourselves on one side of
17:14
Speaker 4: the table and put the problem on the other, whether
17:16
Speaker 4: the problem is the mental load, whether the problem is
17:19
Speaker 4: a child that can't sleep. You know, children not sleeping
17:24
Speaker 4: is a particular flavor of problem because everything is exacerbated
17:29
Speaker 4: when we haven't had our seven hours. Yeah, it's so
17:34
Speaker 4: much worse, and we're snappy with each other and that
17:37
Speaker 4: kind of resentment build. You're like, I did this last night,
17:40
Speaker 4: and I was up three nights and all these things,
17:43
Speaker 4: and I think just to get to the place where
17:45
Speaker 4: you go, hey, you know we're on the same side
17:48
Speaker 4: here is the best way that we can support each
17:50
Speaker 4: other to be able to get there. But you know,
17:52
Speaker 4: I feel for you.
17:54
Speaker 2: Very courageous question, especially for your husband to ask it
17:57
Speaker 2: in your own workplace takes courage. Right, As Kevin said,
18:04
Speaker 2: it will get better, okay. But while you're in the
18:08
Speaker 2: process of getting better, I want you to understand that
18:12
Speaker 2: your child, even taking you all through this level of conflict,
18:16
Speaker 2: is a gift that he's giving you because oftentimes the
18:21
Speaker 2: real argument that we have when we're raising children is
18:24
Speaker 2: not about the child. It's really about two childhoods colliding,
18:29
Speaker 2: your childhood and his childhood. You know, we all walk
18:32
Speaker 2: into marriage carrying our own script from our own family
18:35
Speaker 2: of origin and how things should be done, and we
18:38
Speaker 2: either walk in enacting it or we walk in rebelling
18:42
Speaker 2: against it. And so we're not really fighting or navigating,
18:46
Speaker 2: you know, bedtime strategies. We're really fighting against two histories.
18:51
Speaker 2: And to say it plainly, you know, we're parenting our
18:54
Speaker 2: own wounds. I want you all to see this as
18:57
Speaker 2: a gift because it's going to allow you to talk
19:00
Speaker 2: through some of your histories and some of your stuff
19:03
Speaker 2: that you're bringing into the marriage that is now showing
19:06
Speaker 2: up differently because now this human is involved.
19:10
Speaker 4: Ooh, that was a good answer. Yeah, I felt that
19:13
Speaker 4: one too. I really felt that one kind of have
19:15
Speaker 4: for one thing, that one thing I heard from a
19:17
Speaker 4: few years ago, and I really liked this is they said,
19:20
Speaker 4: you know, rather than kind of like decide who does what,
19:22
Speaker 4: they gave themselves titles. So one parent was secretary for education,
19:27
Speaker 4: so they looked after everything to do with school wow.
19:29
Speaker 4: And one parent was secretary of finance. A secretary of
19:33
Speaker 4: commerce is the person who does all the shopping. So
19:35
Speaker 4: they gave themselves these titles. So if there is kind
19:37
Speaker 4: of like secretary of bedtimes and you just decide like, hey,
19:41
Speaker 4: you know what, I'm secretary of bedtimes, I'm the kind
19:44
Speaker 4: of key decision maker as it comes to this. And
19:46
Speaker 4: I think like even that language, it just makes it
19:49
Speaker 4: a little bit playful and it kind of takes this
19:51
Speaker 4: thing out of it a little bit, but it does
19:52
Speaker 4: provide like this distinct kind of roles and responsibilities across
19:56
Speaker 4: different aspects of the house.
19:58
Speaker 8: Well. Co opting immediately that that's what we're doing. That's
20:01
Speaker 8: what we're doing tonight. Absolutely.
20:05
Speaker 9: All right, let's recap what we talked about.
20:07
Speaker 8: Being a dad today can be a bit of a
20:09
Speaker 8: mixed bag. An increasing number of husbands and fathers enjoy
20:13
Speaker 8: being more involved in the home and in childcare than
20:16
Speaker 8: ever before. That's great, but those roles can also be
20:20
Speaker 8: particularly isolating and hard to manage when you have fewer
20:23
Speaker 8: role models to look to and less built in community
20:26
Speaker 8: around the burden of those responsibilities. The more we continue
20:29
Speaker 8: to talk about these dynamics and our desire for them
20:32
Speaker 8: to change, the better off will all be. So if
20:35
Speaker 8: you're feeling starved for authentic connection or seeking to expand
20:39
Speaker 8: your emotional vocabulary, know that you are not the only
20:43
Speaker 8: dad by far where people are out there and they
20:46
Speaker 8: want to talk to you. To one place to start,
20:49
Speaker 8: Kevin created iral meetup groups in a bunch of different
20:52
Speaker 8: cities through his online community Modern Fatherhood. Finally, remember to
20:56
Speaker 8: take each day at a time. We all bring our
20:58
Speaker 8: own scripts from our past, us, our families, our parents,
21:02
Speaker 8: our dads into our own parenting styles, and then we
21:06
Speaker 8: either enact them or push against them. So good on
21:09
Speaker 8: you for taking the time to have a thing today
21:12
Speaker 8: about which path you're taking.
21:16
Speaker 7: That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle talking with David
21:19
Speaker 7: Dafoe and Kevin Maguire. Happy Father's Day and special thanks
21:24
Speaker 7: to dads Rob tad On andres Alva Cardiness and Josh
21:28
Speaker 7: Babin for contributing their thoughts and questions to this story,
21:32
Speaker 7: and to all the husbands and dads who wrote to
21:34
Speaker 7: us about the mental load. We'd love to hear your
21:36
Speaker 7: thoughts on the episode too. This episode of Life Kit
21:39
Speaker 7: was produced by Sylvie Douglas. It was edited by Brent Bachman.
21:42
Speaker 7: Our digital editor is Malica garib and our visuals editor
21:45
Speaker 7: is c. J. Ricalon. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor,
21:49
Speaker 7: and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer. Our production team
21:52
Speaker 7: also includes Claire Marie Schneider and Margaret Serino. Engineering support
21:56
Speaker 7: comes from Peter Elena. I'm mariel Sagara. Thanks for listening.
22:07
Speaker 6: The fatal shooting of a teenager at a protest in
22:10
Speaker 6: Seattle has gone unsolved for six years.
22:13
Speaker 10: This is open in your faith? How are there no answers?
22:16
Speaker 6: Our investigation has uncovered new evidence and witnesses who say
22:20
Speaker 6: they've never talked to police?
22:22
Speaker 13: Did police ever call you?
22:23
Speaker 1: Not once?
22:25
Speaker 6: Listen to We Keep Us Safe, a new true crime
22:27
Speaker 6: series on the embedded podcast from NPR.
22:31
Speaker 1: You know that moment in an interview when someone says
22:33
Speaker 1: something that just blows you away. On NPR's Wildcard Podcast,
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Speaker 1: We've got a deck of questions that offers a shortcut
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Speaker 1: to those moments. What do you admire about your teenage self?
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Speaker 1: What's a lesson you keep learning again and again. When
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Speaker 1: has selfishness served you well? I'm Rachel Martin. Listen to
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Speaker 1: the Wildcard Podcast only from NPR.