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What I've Learnt - Fiona Sweet · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well the Stella Prize is focused on fostering women's literature.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: We know women need two precious resources to write, time and space.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each year, Stellar awards significant funds directly to women writers through the Stellar Prize, which can literally buy them time to write their next book, as well as writing residencies that are after a much-needed break from daily life to dedicate to creative projects.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Stella is a major voice for gender equality and cultural change in Australian literature.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Founded in 2012, the organisation's flagship program is the annual Stella Prize, a major literary award celebrating Australian women's writing.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Stella also delivers a suite of year-round initiatives which actively champion Australian women, tackle gender bias in the literary sector, and connect outstanding books with readers.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Through a series of strategic initiatives, Stella strives to promote books by Australian women and non-binary writers, support greater participation in the world of literature, and create a more equitable and vibrant.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thrilled to have Fiona Suite.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the What I've Learnt podcast to talk all things Stellar.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolute pleasure.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have known Fiona for many years, but what she's been doing recently, I'm looking forward to hearing because she's really at the coal face of a very interesting and very important mission.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about how you got involved and what your background is and why this resonates so much for you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a question that I'm asked quite a lot, Deborah, because it's very left of field how I ended up at Stella, which, as you know, is the Women's and Non-Binary Literary Prize, uh, which has been going for 12 years.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I started as a graphic designer.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to go through the whole narrative of who I am?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing you do.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can give us a snapshot because it does contact yeah, it gives us a context because it's quite a it's quite a bespoke and fine platform that you have, and it's important to understand how you came to be there.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I started as a graphic designer and ran my own design agency here in St Kilda in Melbourne, Australia, and worked primarily within the art sector.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a lot of work with uh festival, uh theatres, and then a lot of work in festivals.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so then when I decided when the children were old enough that I no longer needed to work in this very powerful, highly charged industry, which is a little bit funny because I'm still doing that, I decided that we all work.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I wanted to um not necessarily give back in that tokenistic way, but I just wanted to do something different and work a little bit more closer with artists.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I started my business in 2015 and then in 2016 I applied for the job as an artistic director and CEO of a very small uh visual arts festival in Regional Victoria.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved to Ballarat and I was the CEO of the Ballarat Photo Biennale, and it was a tiny seed of a brilliant festival, which I grew over six years into quite a significant national and international festival.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely loved it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was seven days a week, it was quite exhausting, it was very bad for my health, but it was very bad, it was very good for my soul, which interestingly.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: How ironic isn't different things I know.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was really, it was fun.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I supported artists to it be introduced to international festivals and international curators.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I ensured that all artists were paid a fair um fee for their work, for exhibiting, and of course, most importantly, I I provided them with an incre a very large and significant audience to see their work.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that was six years doing that.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I really wanted to continue in visual arts after leaving Ballarat, but it was quite hard finding a job that was as exciting as the Bellarat photo, and then I saw this job advertised uh for a co-CEO role for Stella, and I thought, oh, co-CEO, maybe not so much work, maybe not so much stress.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a longtime avid reader.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started reading uh very, very young.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: My family were very big readers, always have been, you know, my grandfather always said that books are not a not a gift or not something special, they are an integral part of life.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So very big reading.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with your grandfather.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm that this is me too, so I'm hearing you.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, avid reader, it's where you can get lost into other worlds and learn, which is why I love having authors on this platform.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm hearing you.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And look, it's great having uh authors being surrounded by authors.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But really, what the job was in the end was um it was a job that actually needed to look strategically at the sector, um, women and non-binding writers who had won the prize, and there's 144 long lists, shortlists, and winners, and look strategically at how we can continue to support them after they've won the prize, and also um look at how we can, as a national organisation, platform the voices of women writers and and and literature in general.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I suppose that's the kind of job that I was very skilled at from my previous jobs, and that's the job that I do.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have to be an expert in literature, I don't have to be a beautiful editor, I don't have to be a beautiful writer.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: What I have to be able to do is have a passion for the sector, which I do, and actually have the have the skill set to understand how I can grow the sector.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I've done, and it's exactly one year since I started.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love the fact that I can read for part of my job, which is great, although probably read a little bit less because I'm so busy.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that I've got this opportunity to say, well, what else can we do in the sector?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So currently it's a prize, which is really significant.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I went to a conference up in Sydney last week and the international publishers actually mentioned the Stellar Prize in the same sentence as the Miles Franklin, as the two prizes that they look to as international publishers for the kinds of books that they might like to buy for their for their country.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so it's interesting, yeah, because it is exciting, but also it's interesting.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that sort of alignment and that history of the Stellar Prize very briefly and how it came to be and why it's so fun because it is really, I found that interesting.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was just with you at the Sorrento Writers Festival, and um I saw a wonderful uh uh platform that you were the presenter for, and you were interviewing some of the writers that were selected to be part of the Stellar uh slate.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I found it really interesting.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't actually believe the alignment with the booker.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So tell tell us a little bit with the Miles Franklin.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2012, there was a group of uh women, uh, and I can list them all in a second.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I never think about all of them, so I don't exclude anyone.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can just give us a snapshot, yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Christine Gordon from Readings, it was at Readings, and they were once again listening to the announcement of the short list for the Miles Franklin, and once again they were all men.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then a group of five of them, Christine Gordon, Lou Swin, Monica Ducks, Sophie Cunningham, and a few other people, and they got together and decided that they wanted to change the uh landscape and to focus on women's uh literature.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So a bit tongue-in-cheek, they announced that they're gonna develop a thing called the Stella Prize.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Miles Franklin, as you know, was the non-diplome for Stella Miles Franklin, so it was a perfect opportunity to use her real birth name.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: But people don't realise that.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't know that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: But that's because Miles Franklin was a woman.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't realise that.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because they hear Miles Franklin.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so they think, Miles, you know, unless you're in the literary world, it's interesting.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that that is, you know, it was so fascinating to watch people go, oh, you know, when you were talking about this at the at the Sorrenta Writers.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Henry Handel Richardson.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember Henry Henry Handel Richardson was the other one we all grew up with knowing that that he was a she?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was writers that had to, well, for your listeners, they had to, they had to, in the 1800s, they had to use a male name to get published.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why this is just so powerful to me, even when those stats, when you were, you know, the Miles Franklin and how there were hardly any female, I think there were two or something, nominated over a period of that decade or something ridiculous.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was just completely blown away.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore the Stellar Prize arose out of this very uh issue, which you're outlining.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just hard to believe it's taken this long to 20 to for it to emerge in the way it has.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it certainly is emerging.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the two things that the that the founders did was they founded the prize, which is as you know, now it's$60,000 for the first prize, so it actually changes, changes a writer's life.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: $60,000 significantly changes, gives them time and gives them a place, space to write.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: But also they introduced this thing, and it started at the very beginning called the Stellar Count, which is this uh quantitative, qualitative, quality, quantitative, quantitative study of who is reviewing books, male or female, how many books are reviewed by men that are written by women, and versus how many books are written by reviewed by men, the column centimeter reviewing space, of course, like how big is the review, and the significance of the publication.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been going on since 2012 as well.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: We've now just this year, um, since I've been appointed, expanded the count to include uh non-journalistic reviews.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that includes blogs and TikTok, and also looking at, I suppose, varieties of intersectionality from diversity of culture right through to diversity of regionality versus cities, and of course the big one which is age.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the Stella founders were actually interested in having a prize to celebrate women and now women and non-binary writers, but also holding account the media to ensure that the books written by women and non-binary being reviewed, because we know, or you would know more than I do, because you do it a lot in this space, reviews have a huge effect on sales of books.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at that loop, it's writers, bookstores, publishers, and audience or readers, and it's a huge circle, yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Loop.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, just on that, you you you know, when you did that um that wonderful session, um, one of the women on stage talked about this particular analysis, and and actually, what were some of those?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember she was talking about how how many female readers, uh, sorry, published books were being reviewed by men primarily, and and she gave this fascinating overview of some of that that information and that research and what was uncovered, I thought was really quite extraordinary that it had been so clearly swayed against women in the sense that there was no what I would call fair overview.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well what do you remember the stairs?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was incredible.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, she's been a stellar winner for her book uh Eureka.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Eureka, Eureka, I haven't got it here, Eureka.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she was doing the until the story, which is about the women of the Eureka.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so there's there's quite a few levels if you think about it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's levels of who's reviewing them and how many are written by women.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's the stats, which we don't actually have for Australia, but I have got them for England.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very interested in pursuing this.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that I won't give you the numbers, but we would all understand this is that men generally read books by men, and women generally read books by men and by women.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So men are not reading books by women to understand who we are, how we think, and and to grow their understanding of our gender.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one story, which is also something that I'm very interested in pursuing as a little bit of a step after the count.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the whole education component, which is how many books in schools on the curriculum written by women, and not just that, how many of those books are selected by the teachers?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, the curriculum defines the book, the curriculum authority defines the books on the curriculum, and then the schools select from the from that from that list.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another interesting kind of extension, I suppose, on the feminist perspective and the feminist ideals of the stellar organization.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't just sit on our laurels and say we'll just continue to support women and non-binary writers, but also looking at other ways of intervening in or other interventions, if you like, to actually change the narrative so that we can grow the understanding between genders.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, this is so fundamental to the fabric of all levels of our society, which which is something that I think Stella is definitely targeting, particularly as you've just outlined now.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think, first of all, what's the greatest challenge, other than you've outlined obviously tapping the education system, ensuring that there are plenty of women reflected across the board, making sure that women are reviewed by women as well as men, et cetera, et cetera.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see as the greatest challenge?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And do you is there a reticence, or do you think it's being embraced more as more and more women come up the ranks and say, you know, we want to be heard, we want to be listened to?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly in the media, I think there are more and more women writers sort of standing on their platform and saying, not even in a feminist rah-rah way, like in a just, I've got a story to tell, I want you to hear it, and here's my story.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of what we do here with what I've learned, although it's not, it's for men and women, obviously, this, but that's also part of the story, isn't it?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: To make sure that men also read women's stories.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get them to do that?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, there's lots of discussion about the fact that women are being published, and we are more than ever.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we feel that Stellar is an integral part of that change, and we're very proud to be a part of that story.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big pick.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, however, as you just uh mentioned, how do we get more men to read women's stories?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because we write in different ways and we're more narrative-based, and we also talk a lot more about our feelings and how we feel, which you know, for men and let's face it, for young boys, critical at this stage of the history of the world.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um they listen to us more, things could be really different.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they could actually listen to women's perspectives.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that um I think that the way that women think is a little bit different.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we listen more and we digest more, and then we have discussions about ideas, and then those ideas formulate.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But if we just stick to literature, I think that the critical thing is that writers in general, in general, don't earn enough money.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we intervene?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've got to try and create opportunities for writers to earn enough money for it to be their income.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that Australia Councils just put out their working artist paper, and I think I think artists earn 43% less than the below the uh the baseline of award wages.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And women artists are 17% lower than that.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a so disturbing.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is so disturbing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big problem that I'd love to address in some way.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think partly that will be trying to get uh the stellar authors published around the world.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: We know that the the volume of books sold in Australia is much, much smaller than in any other country in the world.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Germany, I think they were saying when I met with them last week, they sell 5,000 books per week for an average book.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're selling, I think, for an average book, three to four thousand a year.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what is that?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on there?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because actually it's probably one of the most, actually, I was thinking it's probably one of the most affordable ways to go on an amazing trip.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know the reason.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can only speculate.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: What is your speculation?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, speculation is literacy.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's our literacy?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's certain states where they talk about how high the illiteracy is or how low literacy is.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much literacy comes into it, but in some countries, books are books are like the first present that you would buy someone for any occasion would be a book.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have that here in Australia.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's it's cultural.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, it's interesting you say that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I work with the World Literacy Foundation, as I mentioned to you.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, what do they say?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, in we're in seven countries, our podcast, and I host that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And what they do is extraordinary, and they have a big summit, which is next year, which they do every year, which is about, I mean, there's 750 million people globally who can't read and write.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite extraordinary.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: The stats are insane.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of it is affordability, education, all of the things that we know affect literacy.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Whether the purchase of books that you're referring to, um, because books actually are quite comparatively cheap to pass on, and and you know, you've seen all those beautiful little huts everywhere where you can it's just a it's just whether is the shortfall of when you're saying three, four thousand books sold a year, is just I can't even comprehend that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that that's just driven by a literacy issue, or is that driven by a cultural, as you talked about, that is it culturally entrenched in Australia that reading a book or you know, literacy not necessarily because they can't read, but is that what is encouraged and fostered?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't know.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you and I grew up with that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just intrinsic to how we function.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, because now there's so many different ways to read.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can actually we can read in uh by listening to an audio book while we're jogging, walking the baby, hopping on a tram, riding a bike.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good thing.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great thing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great thing because even though we're not physically following words on a page, we're still digesting other stories, other ideas, other perspectives.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the thing that I want to do.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's critical.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is that great?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Critical part of reading is is the is the different, and that's why we see so many people going to writers' festivals so they can hear from authors about their different ideas and their different journeys, and so that we can share these kinds of shared humanity, and also it's a very important part as we talk about of shared humanity.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: But on that note, also the podcasts, and and that's another form of storytelling, which obviously this has been I've been doing this for four years now, and I think part of that is also we can.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's different to literary reading an audiobook or listening to an audiobook, but what it has done, when I interview some of these um guests who come on the World Literacy Podcast, so many of whom can't read or couldn't read, actually, podcasts and audiobooks have given them access that they would otherwise not have.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and that gives them a stepping stone to confidence to go, wait, now I'm gonna try and actually read and learn to read.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also a stepping stone.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of, I suppose, another avenue into the literary space that we didn't have.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was this has really all happened in the last decade.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it wasn't something that was around.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really a question, and the other thing is often they're free.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's also a factor.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're economically accessible.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm all for it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fantastic.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think being able to listen to stories or or have them read to you or whatever it might be is all good.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, how do we monetize?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, also to your point, how do we ensure that the authors get enough income to have the space to write and to earn a living?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I've had these discussions with all the art community as well, as you can imagine, similar and also all the musicians.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a dissimilar story, literally, and it's not a dissimilar challenge.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, what this has done, though, the Stella, which I picked up on when I heard you speak, was it's it's an elevated, bespoke approach.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's trying to give a sort of a very refined platform, which I think is really important.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have levels, and that's okay.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also given accessibility to people that might otherwise not have been able to get their book published so or get their book out there.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the strategies?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming obviously you've got private philanthropic funding and support.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But how else is the government jumping on board?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: What are the options?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I've only been at Stella for a year, but one of the exciting things that Stella does is Stellar Day Out, which is a free Monday literature festival.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it does what what it does is it provides a platform for the writers and we pay them to participate, of course.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: We also give uh money if they need um babysitting or any other care because that's the kind of organisation we are.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side, we invite people who would not normally participate as audiences uh to come along to these days.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we've done one in Melbourne, we've done one in Hobart, we're just setting up one in Sydney in partnership with Western Sydney University, we're doing one in Canberra, we're doing one in Adelaide, we're doing one in Queensland, in Brisbane, and then a couple in regional Victoria and regional New South Wales to try and get regional people engaged as well.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that we do to try and amplify the voices of stellar writers uh and to get them a broader income, you know, through through public speaking and through the selling of their books at those events.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: But Stellar itself is um is an organisation that's uh not completely well funded.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's funded from the generosity of private donors primarily, which has been fantastic for 12 years.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But there's such a competition, as you know, I'm sure you hear it from everyone in the arts world, there's so much competition for donor money that uh we really need to diversify.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to be doing more project-based um events as well, which again will continue to support the the writers, but we'll also hopefully bring in some income for Stellar.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we are starting to knock on the doors of state and federal governments as well.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was about to say the government.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and tell me, how are Stellar writers selected?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you what what are the what's the criteria, other than obviously the broad criteria that you've outlined?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is and how does it differ from you know, there's so one of the problems is there's just so, as you say, there's quite a lot of there's many festivals, which I love, from the Byron Writers Festival to the Sorrento Writers Festival, and the scope is just incredible of writers that we're seeing in touch with their audiences.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Moving into this space, how challenging is it?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And also, what is the criteria or the point of difference other than the stellar day out?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's free.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's the big point of difference, is it's separate so and it's um female focused, obviously.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's female focused, but the audience is not female focused.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone can but we do, I suppose we approach organisations and communities that might not generally be the kinds of audiences and communities that would be the first people entering into a writer's festival.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing to say, but also it just creates a different kind of a narrative.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can actually we can actually curate our own combinations of discussions with our stellar writers, so it is quite different to other festivals because it's just the winners, the 144 winners.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: So so people are getting a bit of an idea of why these authors, why these writers were chosen.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the process of uh the stellar we have five judges, we have five judges.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're completely independent, they're given some very strict rules and guidelines that we brief them on, and then they go away and read every single book that's been entered into the prize.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: How many enter how many entrants do you get, General?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Last year was 227.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot, isn't it?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because the category, there's not different categories, like some of the prizes go into different categories, but we have fiction, non-fiction, graphic novel, poetry, and memoir, or I think the other, oh poetry, yeah, four sections.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So all of them get judged pitted against each other.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the judging process is is is a beautiful process.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I watched it for the first time this year with our five judges, and you know, as they said, they don't discuss what they don't like about the books, they just like to discuss what they do like about it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: We like that.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we like that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so so it's a really beautiful process, and we also know that the winners of the Stella Prize, their book sales can go up 800% in that first two weeks after the long list, short list, or winner.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a huge spike in sales.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So not only do they get money, they also get extra books published, which is really good for them, bookstores and publishers.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the prize is is it's really about excellence.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's a really, I don't know how the judges do it because you know they they might be looking at a uh historical non-fiction and a fantasy poetry and trying to work out which one to put onto the line.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's like different.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, the winner this year, talk to me a little bit about her.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was really interesting.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I was so because when I saw some of the people that were up for the prize, I was like, how do you pick?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's as you've just outlined, it is challenging because it's not like because it is broad spectrum.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about her and how that came to be.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, Alexis Wright was the winner uh for the 2024 Stellar Prize, which is this year, with her book Praiseworthy.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredibly beautiful book.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you've read it or not read it or heard about it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've only read a little bit.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read the whole thing, but just what I saw looked quite, yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can't wait to get back to it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of witty, but it's also quite deep as well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a fictitious town called Praiseworthy somewhere in Australia.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Great idea.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where various community members have different opinions of how life should or should not be, but they're basically surrounded by this thick haze, which is the reflection of climate change.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So she's she's woven in, Alexis has woven in climate change and indigenity.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: She herself is indigenous, she's from uh the Gulf of Carpenteria, but she's woven these themes in, and she's I suppose the basic premise that sort of stood out for me is that, you know, indigenous people have been living on this land for 60,000 years.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: We are the best survivors that there is, we will survive.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: But what she weaves in is all the other little kind of journeys in life and personality types and crazy ideas about collecting, collecting donkeys so that they can be a new form of transport, or you know, the snake that travels around Australia.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't it be better just to use the internet?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this kind of humour and this push and pull between culturally significant imagery and the kind of the humour and the wit of the way the world is at the moment.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So very, very pertinent and very relevant, yeah, very good and very zeitgeist.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: I thought the themes that I read briefly in the book.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me also, do you think this is interesting too?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to and I'm thinking, well, that'd be a good book for book club, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, so the emergence of book clubs, which have always been around, but suddenly they're seem, I mean, it's just everywhere, everyone's in a book club, they're in two book clubs.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know people in, you know, one that feeds them their soul in that way and one feeds their soul in another.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the emergence of book clubs, which tend to be primarily female, they're not always just female, but most women I know in some form are either in a book club or have been.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they last for years if you're in a good one.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that that's also driven this sort of um female energy into the space at all?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had any resonance on that front?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we do have stellar book clubs, and we know of stellar book clubs, and I've met women who come up to me and said, I'm in a stellar club, and I say, Oh, tell me more.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And primarily they read the 12 long lists every year.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's interesting.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I love you've got to love that.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, I think uh book clubs feed, and I'm just talking about the women that I know, but and it's only, you know, personal knowledge, it's not anything research, but that it certainly feeds lots of needs, I think.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: The discussion, I think, is so critical.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you read a book on your own, just like writers who write on their own, we read on our own.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea of coming forward in a book club for readers to discuss it is probably very similar to an author having to come up on stage and talk about that they spent four years on their own at their desk writing, you know, in a solitary world.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I find that quite interesting.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the solitary nature of what we do as a craft as a craft or as a as an activity, and then it's shared in this um group dynamic.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know that a lot of women read most of the books by women.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: We know that, but they also read men.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then they're not, they're not, we're not, we don't discriminate.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: We read anything.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll read anything.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I do know you're right.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you did.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, you did.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: You I mean, what you're talking about is the universe, the universality of the themes of shared humanity that we experience when we read a book.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And often people write, yes, they write for themselves and their own version and view or perspective, but it's with a view to ultimately being read.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they write for.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't, you know, generally they often want to share that journey.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I suppose the book clubs are just another way, but it's interesting there are stellar book clubs around.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it sounds like the stellar prizes is growing and the stellar presence is growing.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do you hope to see?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: What would be your next, I suppose, uh mission in terms of I know you mentioned you want to have a global uh presence, which is emerging.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the big vision at this point?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's so many different visions, so many different visions.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it all has to be ratified by the board.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just talking off that my hat is fine.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's always really good, isn't it?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's fine.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: They'll they'll get they'll pick you up later.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's fine.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as long as I don't find being too controversial, I think I'll be okay and keep my job.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've been very you're you're fine.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're very fine.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose, yes.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, my craft, which is not writing, my craft is growing arts, whatever the art.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So my craft is coming up with ideas and realizing them because everyone can come up with ideas, it's actually the realization.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do I realise these ideas that will grow, grow the exposure of the writers, which then will allow for them to actually be financially remunerated in the way that they should be as cultural leaders in Australia?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's really what we need to talk about is the mission, yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Forget about writers or painters or photographers.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they are cultural leaders in Australia, and they should benefit financially from what they do and be valued, yeah, and be valued.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think financial value is is pretty significant and important, and a lot of writers and artists will say to you, I don't like to talk about money, and you go, Well, you know, you sort of got to have to because you've got to pay the bill.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm looking at, on one hand, and the other hand, which is kind of the research work and the kind of analytics to kind of allow government to understand that Stellar is a platform that supports this sector, and that we are the lead organization, also helps support those riders.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to keep making sure that Stellar stays high in the ranking and importance Australia-wide.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Honor its platform because otherwise you can't dilute it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I understand.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, we don't we don't have the capacity to uh to to to do what we have to do for the authors.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's both of those juggles.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said a little earlier in the conversation, I think that research plays a huge part in uh what we do.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we could do some more research about reading, about who reads, how they read, um, you know, in the education system, and particularly amongst men and and and boys, I think that's a sector that I'm I'm personally very interested in to see how we can affect change and and affect what they know about the other gender.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really, really important.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just keeps evolving and changing.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every new director has a new mission and a new value, and we and every every single project that I've seen from the past 12 years has always been really important and helped to elevate the writers.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think writing in general, I think is really important to grow, and our little sector or big sector is as significant just in isolation, but also as part of the whole for writers, as part of the whole for the arts, and ultimately as part of the whole for feminism, because we can't forget that feminism is the driving force of the establishment of stella.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Fiona.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're very lucky to have you on board.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the passion, you've got the vision, you've got the mission, and I thank you for joining us at the What I've Lite podcast.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure my listeners will be uh loving the story of where you know the female literary journey is really very powerful and one we must honour.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, and I look forward to seeing what you do next.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Deborah, and of course, I'm sure you're going to post our website, so thank you too for that as well.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, a hundred percent.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 35:50
  unknown: Bye.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Love Dev.