Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 5 Track 18 - What's Poppin? NBA Finals - Jokić & The Branding of Family

Transcript

Album 5 Track 18 - What's Poppin? NBA Finals - Jokić & The Branding of Family · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: What's happening Brand Nerds back at you with another edition of Brands, Beats and Bytes what's popping? What's popping? Last night there was a significant milestone in sports. It was the conclusion of the NBA finals and Woo what a game it was. What a game. What a game. What a game. As we did with the Super Bowl, y'all know, we, we, we, we gotta keep it a stack. We have thoughts from a branding perspective, what was going on with the Super Bowl, and now we have some similar thoughts as to what was going on and what is going on from the lens of branding and marketing with the NBA finals. And with that LT and Jeff, let's take our Brand Nerds down a little journey, shall we? JS: Right? And, and, and after they won the NBA championship, we got on the phone and said, we need to do a recording right now, so let's get into the studio. So LT want to kick it off in more detail? LT: Yes. DC: And hold on, let me just say this, lemme just say this and by they, what Jeff means is the Denver Nuggets. The Denver Nuggets, that's the Denver Nuggets, LT: Jay. He's, he's transferring his name thing to The Nuggets now. Do you know that's not DC: Yeah, he, he's, isn't he? JS: Yeah. And, and, and since we're mentioning the Denver Nuggets, we have a business partner that would go on name that thought it would be Miami and six, but I digress. DC: That would be me. LT: That's funny, gentz. I, oh, that's funny. Alright, so as "hoop heads." The three of us, we want to congratulate the Denver Nuggets they're great team. And their fans we're after 56 years, 47 in the NBA and nine in the ABA. And it was rubbing me wrong, like I love the ABA and they were like ignoring the fact that they had nine season in the ABA ah, yeah. I didn't like that. So I want to, yep. Point that out, right? So in the 56 years in Denver, they finally win their first NBA championship, which is super cool, and it's really dope to watch a fan base win a championship when they've never won before. Sort of similar to Toronto winning in 2019. You remember the so, mm-hmm. The city's just a, a, a fire in a good way, right? Mm-hmm. Really cool. So the Nuggets are led by two great players center, Nikola Jokić and Point Guard, Jamal Murray with an excellent coach in Mike Malone and many other excellent role players such as San Jose's own, Aaron Gordon. Michael Porter, Jr., Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, better known as KCP, Bruce Brown, and many more. They don't win this without Jamal, now, since he was out all of last season, recovering from a torn ACL l mad props to Jamal for coming back to pre-injury form to do his thing. With that as a setup, we are going to focus this what's poppin on Nikola Jokić, who is affectionately also known by his nickname as "The Joker." "The Joker" is a 28 year old, born and bred Serbian, who at first glance, other than the fact he's very tall, standing 6'11". He does not look like someone who is a basketball player. We won't bore you with all of his stats, but we'll tell you that by his fourth year in the NBA, he made his first All-Star team. In his sixth year, he won his first regular season MVP award, and in his seventh year, which was last year, he won two MVP awards in a row. This year he arguably had an even better regular season, and even though he didn't win it, uh, shout out to Joel and Bead who won, uh, the regular season MVP and as already mentioned, he led his team to their first championship where he won, Jokić won the Bill Russell Finals MVP award and was the first player in the 77 year history of the NBA to lead the playoffs in points, assists and rebounds. This dude's an amazing ballplayer, everyone, so gents what we wanna do, and we, as we talked about in the setup, d, we'd love to talk about The Joker's marketability and how it impacts the NBA too. What's say you all? JS: All right. I, I, I love this. Uh, I'll dive in first and I'm gonna go from the lens of the Nike ad that was released right after the game. And I think they did, did a brilliant job. So let me set up this ad for, for, for the Brand Nerds who haven't seen it, what they did. I want you to imagine the television, a black screen and nothing but white words popping up frame by frame. And the ad reads. "So a Serbian guy walks into an arena, wins an MVP," and this is flipping to, uh, to each frame, "Wins another one. Helps lead his team to the playoffs. Then the finals. Wins a ring. Brings a city together and everyone's happy. Everyone is happy." That's it. That's the punchline. Then the last frame, they show a picture of him after winning the finals, and the headline says, "no joke." Now the question is, why is this such a great ad? And I'm gonna, I'm gonna focus on one of our 10 commandments. When we do our workshop, we have 10 commandments on building a brand. And this one, the one that jumped out to me was they stayed within his brand boundaries. That's our seventh commandment and they killed it. DC: That's good. JS: Jokić is very boring. His, he, his personality's boring. He's very matter of fact. Doesn't show much emotion on the court and his play is boring, not flashy, just fundamental. Number two, as LT said, his nickname is "Joker," um, and the commercial, um, with nothing but words in the picture of him at the end with the killer headline. No joke. And you would definitely see that on merchandise. So they took his brand, boring, and made an ad, boring, and the impact is going to be phenomenal. Okay. That, that's what I was impressed by Nike, who always killed it. Who? They, they, they, they, they consistently kill it. They've killed it, uh, with Jokić in terms of how they presented him in the ad. So that's my What's Popping the shout out to Nike in the, in the excellent job they did with his brand. LT: D, um, I'm just gonna, I know d you're chumping. I'm just gonna say quick things and then I'm gonna throw it to you. One, also, we Brand Nerds go to Nike's Twitter and you can see the ad that, that, uh, Jeff is alluding to. It's on Nike Twitter. Uh, So one of the things, Jeff, you did a great job at describing that. Um, I love what you said, um, to, to compliment what you said. Um, meaning to add to it is that Nike is, not only are they so good, they really understand their brand and their brand, brand fundamentals so well. Mm-hmm. And when you go to Nike, the tagline, "Just Do It." It's not about bullshit, it's about getting, it's about performance and getting shit done, putting the work in and just doing it, just like the tagline says. And so, uh, the, the personification of that can take a lot of different paths and the jokers is one of those paths, right, you said it for, he's boring, but his performance is off the charts and so he's just about showing up, kicking your ass and going home. So it's, it's such a perfect intersection of his brand and Nike's brand in that sense. But, so that's what it means for just do it. Just do it for "Joker." Perfect. JS: Yes. Agree LT. DC: J and LT. You guys have nailed this thing, Jay. I love taking it back to our seventh commandment of, of how to build a great brand. Of no thy boundaries. No, no. That boundaries, they knew that for, for Joker and LT, you talking about the blending of brands, the Jokić brand and the Nike brand together, oftentimes marketers will either get one, right, none. Right? But rarely do they get both rights seamlessly. That's what they've done here, both Nike and Jokić. I'm reminded of when Nike did something similar to an athlete or an, uh, Charles Barkley parlance athlete that some consider to not be that, um, emotional. Emotionally expressive. And that was Anfernee Hardaway. So they created this doll called Lil Penny. Lil Penny. Go look that up, Brand Nerds. And who was voiced, by the way, by a young Chris Rock. Yep. So they found a creative way to bring personality to, uh, to Anfernee Hardaway, AKA Lil Penny. All of these things are, um, Our fantastic insights. Uh, I, um, I was emotionally overtaken by Jokić's and the Denver Nuggets win. And also I wanna give a shout out to the Miami Heat. Valiantly fought. Valiantly fought. The Nuggets were just a better team. So they came out on top, and that is why they are, they're champions. But there was an emotion that came over me as I looked at the end of the telecast where they were interviewing Jokić and then the other folks that were interviewed. And I kept rewinding back and looking at it again and again and again, and I began to say to myself, What's really going on here? And I am, uh, you guys know Brand Nerds and you, Larry and Jeff, that I typically go freestyle off the dome, but in this case was such a powerful and poignant moment. I think it's worthy of analyzing this almost frame by frame. Mm-hmm. So that's what I'm gonna attempt to do now. So Brand Nerds. We're fortunate in that in our business we've worked with and have had, uh, multiple a-list celebrity clients. Yep. So I'm thinking about Nikola I'm like, if we had him as a client, what would we say to him? What would we say to him? What makes him special? And fortunately, we don't need to say that much. If we just focus on what's before us. So here's what happened immediately after the buzzer in the game, fellas, you all saw this. Lisa Salters, who is a fantastic, fantastic analyst, she pulls, uh, uh, uh, Joker, Jokić to the side, asks him a question, and here's our question. "Now you are an NBA champion, Nikola. How does it feel?" So Nikola. He answers. He said, "it's good. It's good. The job is done. We can go home now." Now Brand Nerds and Larry and Jeff, I can assure you that Lisa Salters has probably asked that question of hundreds of athletes. How does it feel? And I bet you none of them said. The job is done. We can go home now. Yeah, right. Okay. That, that's, that's Nikola now, then she kicks it to Mike Breen. So Mike Breen, he's calling this 100th NBA finals game. Shout out to the goat, Mike Breen. So he's on the, which is amazing. He's on the sideline. He, he did an amazing job. He and, uh, uh, Van Gandhi and Mark, uh, Mark Jackson, that team that, that, that, that trifecta, they are fantastic. So he's, he's calling this 100th finals game, and he says one of those magical seasons and then the, the, the, the camera pans to a picture of Nikola's family. And so it's, it's two brothers. His, uh, his wife, his sisters, his father, they, they're all there bookended by the brothers. And then Mike Breen is saying this, these fans, these players, this organization, will never forget the Jokić family. So this is what Mike Breen says. Then it goes to Adam Silver, he's the commissioner of the NBA, he's on the stage Brand Nerds about to hand over the congratulations to the nuggets and he says he congratulations to Denver Nuggets. First ever championship. He says 7 47 year history. LT you're right, it's 56 year history, but he, he's the NBA Commissioner, so he is like 47 years in the NBA. So the commission hands the trophy to the owner, Stan Kroenke, and he lifts these, the Larry O'Brien, um, championship trophy high above his, his head as he's interviewed by Lisa Salters again. He hands a trophy to his son Josh. Josh is sitting there holding it. Then there's a shot of Jamal Murray, shout, Jamal Murray, the resiliency to come back. Mm-hmm. And the second best player on this championship team, he's holding the trophy. Mm-hmm. So it's like Lisa Salters is like really getting into this, and he says, I wanna ask you about your superstar, Nikola Jokić . So she's talking as Stan Kroenke the owner. You've recently said that Nikola Jokić is the most amazing thing you've seen in basketball. Why do you say that? So now, Stan, he goes, he says, well, because I watch Yolk, his nickname early, come and work out, and I think he's been described as, as a chubby teenager. So at this time, as Stan Kroenke is saying this about Nikola, the camera goes in to try to catch Nikola. Nikola at the time has his back to the camera and he's looking into the eyes of his wife and he's reaching for their daughter. Mm-hmm. Who looks to be no more than two years old. Mm-hmm. So here's Stan Kroenke, the owner, talking about his superstar, and Nikola's looking at his wife and grabbing his daughter. Okay, so now, Uh, next up is Coach Mike Malone. He comes up, so Lisa Sar says, "coach, I'm gonna ask you about Nikola as well, because I know he's not gonna talk about himself." LT: Right. DC: "But his is historic performance in these playoffs. Woo. You talk about him. What does it say about your superstar?" And again, Larry, you've talked about the stat line. He is the only individual in the history of the NBA to lead a finals and points rebounds and assist playoffs, rather points rebounds and assists. LT: Yep. DC: So he let all players who have ever played in the playoffs in the history of the NBA so Mike Malone now, he's been asked about. He's asked about Nikola's performance by Lisa Salters. Mm-hmm. Mike Malone, coach of the Denver Nugget says, well, Nikola Jokić is a great person. He's a great husband, father, and son and brother. LT: Yep. DC: Then he goes on to talk about Nikola's performance on, on, on the court. Okay. Now finally, Lisa Salters brings up Nikola okay, so the, the, the finals MVP trophy is about to be presented to Nikola, so Nikola's making his way from the back. He's coming up to get his recognition as the best player in the finals award, and he's got his daughter, he's clutching his daughter and his arms. And up to that point, Larry and Jeff, there is zero visual, visual evidence that the two-time NBA most valuable player, now an NBA champion and finals, MVP and arguably the best player in the world, has even touched the Larry O'Brien Championship trophy. There's no evidence as he, he's, he's not even touched the trophy yet. Okay. Yeah. So now. Okay, so Adam Silvers again at the podium and he begins the presentation of this newly named Bill Russell's final MVP trophy to Nikola. And Bill Russell, as you guys know, passed away last year. Mm-hmm. And the NBA honored this passing with the jersey patch of number six, decals and, and decals on the floor league wide. So then Adam Silver cleverly adds before giving the trophy over to Nikola. The newly named MVP uh, of the trophy is Bill Russell. He says, who himself was a center and would be proud that another center in Nikola is the first to receive his namesake award. Adam Silver, definitely done. Okay. Yep. While, while Adam is talking, y'all Nikola is listening to the commissioner. But he's looking into softly into the eyes of his daughter. So he is listening over here, but he's looking at, and he's gently embracing his daughter. So the commissioner hands the MVP trophy to Nikola, which he receives with one hand fellas while still embracing his daughter with the other. Okay, so now Lisa Salters. Steps up to the mic, said "Nikola, you've said you've never envisioned any of this for yourself, being an all-star, a two-time MVP and now a finals MVP what does it mean ,to be a champion and to be able to celebrate with your family?" This is what she says. Okay. I know that took a while, Jeff and Larry, I appreciate your patience. And also the Brand Nerds. The brand of Nikola Jokić is family. Full stop. Mm-hmm. NBA, if an attribute of your brand is about family Nikola is the face. Mm-hmm. Global companies. If an attribute of your brand is about family Nikola is the face. Any global brand interested in a positioning around family? Nikola is your person. Yes, as you said, Jeff, some describe Nikola as boring and yes, some will. Even mischaracterize Nikola as unmarketable. Don't be lazy marketers just as Nikola's game has been underestimated for years. So too has Nikola's marketability. On first take this morning, Molly Qerim. She asked Steven A. Smith a question. She says, Steven A. Smith, what's the most impressive part of the Nuggets title run? He had all kinds of things to draw from. Two man game. Organization that stayed patient role players that stepped up coaching that was masterful. He had all of that to pull from. Stephen A said this, believe it or not, not to borrow this cliche or anything, it's the family. I'll end my comments the same way the Denver Nuggets in their huddles. And I'm gonna ask you, Larry and Jeff to do it with me, family on 3. 1, 2, 3. Family, family. LT: Love that. That's it. Love it. Sid. I, I would, I I love that. Um, if you don't mind, I would like to add some complimentary spin on what you said. DC: Please. LT: Um, because I think, I think you as usual did a fantastic job of boiling it down to something that really matters to everyone. And you know, a lot of brands have a big part of the foundation to their brand is family. So you mm-hmm. I think you, you really, uh, boiled it in there. I wanna add something to it though. I wanna break it down a little bit as it relates to the joker and the specific connection points. That we use in our business too, called I.L.E.A.P.P.S. Um, and I wanna bring back, we've talked about it on the ah Yeah. Podcast before. I'm gonna bring it back again. So, Brand Nerds, um, for those who haven't heard it, we have a construct called I.L.E.A.P.P.S and it's simply an acronym. Um, and it's a consumer-centric system developed to understand how and why people connect with their favorite celebrities, including athletes and NBA players. And the acronym, uh, each letter stands for something. So the I is iQ L is looks, E is effort. A is attitude. P is for performance. There's another P for personal bond in the S is style. So in the past we have used this construct with the NBA delving into how and why NBA fans connect with NBA players. Without getting into too much detail, we know that NBA fans really value effort and attitude and attitude, specifically represented by respect to teammates and coaches. Did you notice what. Mr. Jokić did after the game, before he even celebrated with his team. He went down the line and, and shook hands with all the Miami heat players. Did you notice that? Yes. Yes. Ultimate of respect of what's so, teammates, coaches, and competitors. He ha his mad, mad respect there. Um, and then again, going back to, uh, um, to what NBA fans, value, effort attitude, as I just mentioned and style. With performance coming next. So that's what, uh, the NBA fans value most IQ and looks not as valued as much by fans, but there's a core group who do value it. And then personal bond is really important only when it's there. So to give you a, just a, a quick snippet of what personal bond means, it can be anything from the s from my hometown, went to my school, maybe I have a special needs, uh, family member. So do they. It could be anything in that realm. So, but when you look at Nikola, he scores really high on effort. His attitude is off the charts as we just alluded to, performance. There's two levels of performance. There's personal performance. Now he's a champion, so he's performing at the absolute highest level, as we alluded to the first guy in 77 years in the NBA to lead the playoffs and points, uh, points, assists and rebounds. And his iq. Everybody who's a basketball head is. As good as it can possibly be. It's up there with the greatest IQ guys of all time, like, uh, Magic and Bird and people like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But he also scores really low on style. I'm just being blunt about it. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Looks, again, I'm just talking to the female people I talked to. Okay. And personal bond being of tall Serbian, it's not something many Americans can relate to. Okay? Mm-hmm. But D, what you just did. Everyone can relate to family. Yeah. So now if you take it to family, All of a sudden there's a personal bond there. So you might not, if you might not look at, uh, at looks and style as something that you'd accentuate with Yoic. But the other five things, again, using your construct of family is perfect. And what I was also thinking about, there's a lot of brands and especially tech brands predicated on their effort, smarts, and performance. Yeah. So, you know, you think about that, those are the kind of brands that can really take Jokić and take it to another level. It's almost like there's tech brands. Guess what? We are boring. He's boring, but we're, we're the smartest he can be. Performance is through the roof, right? And our efforts great, just like him. You want us to be boring? You don't want style. And so, D, to your point, it's really incumbent upon people who are great marketers to figure out the way to market him. DC: Absolutely. Absolutely. Larry, what a great thing to note the framework. Go. Go ahead Jeff. You about to say something, brother? JS: Yeah. And I, I wanna, I wanna mention, um, something that I haven't seen marketers do. Maybe I missed it with foreign players. They haven't used foreign players to the degree they, they would use American born athletes. Mm-hmm. And this was brought to my attention. Um, have a, um, someone I grew up with. Um, he moved from Detroit to Denver when he was 12, and we just reconnected after like 40 years. Wow. Um, uh, last year. Uh, his name is Mike, Mike Watson. LT: Uh, shout out. JS: Shout out. Mike. Mike. Mike. I talked to Mike this morning and he brought up this fact he said, I haven't seen foreign players get the same love as domestic players that grew up in the US and he said if Jokić um, if Jokić should be marketed as well as bird should be, right? LT: Yeah. Yep. JS: And said he was not a foreign player. He would be Larry Bird and how they McDonald's using all these kinds of things. So it's gonna be interesting to see. If we, if, if they use him, um, the why or why not and, and yeah. LT: That's a big point, Jay. But see, we we're illuminating things for the Brand Nerds here. The reason why, in my opinion, Larry Bird, let's, we're going to be blunt. We talk blunt. Larry Bird's a white guy from Indiana. That, that so many white people in this country can relate to and actually held him up as the great white hope. And one of the cool things about Byrd is he really was uncomfortable about that. Did not like that. Yeah. Um, but that's, so, and bird was boring and wasn't good. It's funny, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna say who, uh, of close two close females in my life said he's Jokić is about the same, looks as Bird, and it wasn't a, a complimentary thing. Okay. So, so again, you, you talk about Bird though. Bird was marketed be incredibly well, uh, because he had the personal bond for people. Yeah. Right. Um, but D as in, in DC's genius, he gave the br he gave everyone the personal bond and it's family, family, family. If you, if you awaken that, it's a whole different thing because we can all relate to that. DC: Yeah, I mean, Larry, JS: you know, I, I got goosebumps to, you know, how they focused in on his family, how he was interacting. It was like, you know, how can you not love this guy? LT: Right? DC: Yeah. Um, well that is the question. How can you not love this guy? Uh, I think for the same reason Nikola's game has is just becoming fully recognized the last couple years. He's unorthodox. Yep. And it is unorthodox to have someone who is so much about family that it literally dominates everything around him, including a team right in, in including a team. Um, Larry going to the I leaps, uh, framework. You talked about smart as being one of them. And in the world of basketball, they call that basketball iQ. Yep. Many moons ago, um, there was a, um, a metric in a study called T Teenage Research Unlimited. You guys know this? T R U and the number one metric. That determined popularity for years, was looks. LT: Yep. DC: Mm-hmm. Also, in the ILE model, do does the person look good? So if you look, if you were handsome, beautiful, anything about attractiveness. Mm-hmm. That was number one. You were popular, had to do anything else, it's gotta be this got to be attracted. Mm-hmm. And then there was a shift. And the number one metric in the same study. Teenage, Teenage Research Unlimited was smart. Smart. Are you smart? When we were coming up, Larry and Jeff, the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world, the Steve Jobs of the World. These quote unquote nerds, the Bill Gates of the world, they were not considered to be cool or popular. They were just considered to be nerds. LT: Yep. DC: Now they're popular. Alright. Steve Jobs resting power. They're popular. And so what we may be seeing marketers is a changing of the guard in athletics. As to what attributes may in fact be the next most important attributes as to what's most important to a consumer. And it may be in addition to the family piece, which is a differentiator for, uh, Nikola also smart. And then finally, I'll, I'll say this, I've got three daughters, uh, you Brand Nerds who've been listening, you know, this, uh, on, um, With my three daughters, I tell them often that I love them and I say to them, what do you have to do in order to be loved by me? And, and it's the same answer. Nothing, right? You don't have to do anything. I just need to be me. They all know that from me, what I'm attempting to teach them and what I've been attempting to teach them for years now. Is that I want them to be comfortable in their own skin. In their own skin. Nikola Jokić is comfortable in his own skin. Oh man. He's not trying to be anyone else. Mm-hmm. Other than himself. That is all that he is trying to be. And Larry and Jeff and brand nerds. I would daresay if there is something to emulate about Nikola Jokić, it's that, oh man, his thing is family. Yeah. What is your thing? And be that right. No more, no less. LT: What you're saying is there's a genuineness to him. DC: Yes. LT: And authenticness to him that DC: Yes. LT: That just oozes, right? Yes. And I'll say this too. Going back to the I LEAPS model, if you're a just going to the basketball, you notice how much his teammates love him. Did you notice that? Oh, yes. Yes. You can feel that. I know. Again, I've been on teams, coach teams. I can smell the beat. I know when, when guy I know. When you see stuff that ain't right. Yes. His teammates love him. And they love him. Yes. Cause he has mad respect for them. He shows, all he does is work his ass off and he gets it done. He's got performance. So who wouldn't wanna play with a guy like that? And he, he, who wouldn't? He, he's, he's such a great passer and he wants to make you look good as a teammate. And so yeah, it permeates. And so, so that's why when you talk about family D I want, this is where I'm circling to. Yes. He has his family. But what they've done with the Denver Nuggets, and that's what you were alluding to and I want to hit it directly, he's made the whole team, including the owner, and it comes from Jokić. A family. Yes. Yes. From him. Right. And I dare I say, I don't, we don't live in Denver. I've spent time but spent time there. But I guarantee you the whole city feels that. No, DC: absolutely. They do. JS: Yeah, it, I confirmed that when, in talking to Mike, he said he's loved in Denver and the entire state of Colorado. Sure. They Oh, sure. Absolutely love him. Why? Because he's a winner and his personality and all of that. Yeah. But, but you know what was interesting? I I, I remembered something from the NBA All-Star game. So Brand Nerds in NBA All-Star game, the two top vote getters, they get to pick their team like he used to do on the playground. DC: Mm-hmm. Yep. JS: Do y'all remember he was the second to the last player pick. LT: Oh my. Yes, that's right. DC: I forgot that. I didn't remember that Jeff. JS: A and the way he was picked, if was two guys left, he just got up and walked to LeBron's team before LeBron even called it out. He's like, I'm, I'm on your team, LeBron. Yeah. He was the second to the last player picked. LT: That was this year. JS: That was this year. DC: Wow. That was February, yeah, in February. Oh my goodness. LT: Ah, uh, that's insane, man. DC: Hey, Jeff and Larry, uh, we're gonna do the NBA A Solid right now. Yeah. We're gonna do the NBA A so a solid And, um, and perhaps if they do this, and I think they should, they'll just give us a thank you. That's all I'm asking If you, if you end up doing this NBA. Just, just give Brand Positioning Doctors a thank you. We're we're telling you now this idea is yours. Mm-hmm. But we're saying it right now. Okay? Mm-hmm. Your campaign next year for the league should be centered around family. LT: Yep. JS: Absolutely. DC: Your campaign for marketing, the league should be centered around family and three different, three different vectors for family, family, for the teams. Family for the fans and family for the community. You hit those three things. It's a wrap. You're gonna have one of the best campaigns in the history of the NBA. It's yours, use it. LT: D. They always refer to the NBA family too. That's something that people, you don't hear that talked about with the other sports. You don't hear a MLB family. Right? Mm-hmm. Hear NBA well that's they're, they're in the NBA family. Yep. There's so many to that. Beautiful. That's great. Good place to wrap. Yes. Yes. All right, Brand Nerds. Thanks so much for listening to the brands. Beats and Bys recorded virtually on Zoom in a production of Kz, S u Stanford 90.1 FM Radio and worldwide@kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl DC Cobin, Larry Tayman, Haley Cobin, Jake Tate, and Tom Dro. Pod faba. That is right. And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share it to your friends and colleagues and everyone. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.