Latest / The SEANC View / DHHS, prison employees react to job cuts in budget

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DHHS, prison employees react to job cuts in budget · The SEANC View

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On this week's episode of the Scenic View podcast, we discuss some very heavy
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topics, including mental health.
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May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we would like to remind you that if
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you or someone you know is struggling, there are resources for you to reach out to.
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Break the stigma and talk about mental health. Thank you.
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Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of the Scenic View podcast.
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I'm your host, Jonathan Owens, Communications Director here at Scenic,
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along with Artis Watkins, our Executive Director, Government Relations Director,
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Suzanne Beasley, and podcast producer, Sam Klein.
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Welcome, everyone, to the podcast. Thank you, John.
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Music.
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So I didn't forget our special guests in the room. We do have two special guests
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that will be on the podcast as well.
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I guess first we should just start off with a small recap of what happened this
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week, if anything did. I know that it was kind of a slow week,
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right, at the legislature?
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It was, you know, on the outside. But on the inside, there was a lot of work
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going on between appropriations chairs and appropriations subcommittees.
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This morning, all the subcommittees met and fiscal staff reviewed their portions of the state budget.
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It didn't have any information in the money report that they shared this morning
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about pay raises or retiree money.
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It did have a fair amount of information about job cuts, so concerns there.
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And we expect the budget on Monday.
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Okay. So, yeah, I'm seeing a lot of tweets flying around right now about the
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House budget. So it must be getting close, right?
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Almost there, y'all. Okay. Well, with that being said, we have our,
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I guess we'd call them quarterly meetings of our Board of Governors this week.
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And so we get folks from all over the state that converge on our office to do the work of Scenic.
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We really appreciate all the hours they put in.
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Two of those members are with us right now. We have Wendell Powell,
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the first vice president of Scenic. Applause.
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And Kathy Merritt from Goldsboro, North Carolina. She's the District 59 chairwoman
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and also the chair of our DHHS study committee. Applause.
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Oh, I can't hear the applause. We are. If we are not family now,
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we're going to be family after this podcast in this room.
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Yeah, we're all stacked in here like sardines.
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We already talked about sardines like two episodes ago, right? Penned oysters.
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It's very gross, y'all. So we did get Artis a puffin this week in honor of her
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favorite bird from last week's episode.
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It's a little stuffed puffin. It's about six inches tall, and it's the cutest
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thing I've ever seen. And it's the Audubon Society, apparently.
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And we didn't know when we ordered it that it makes a sound. So tell us what this.
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Get this, y'all. I'm going to try to put it up to the mic. I hope it'll carry
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over. This is apparently what a puffin sounds like.
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Now, if you missed last week. Okay. Thank you, puffin.
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This is our podcast, puffin, moving forward. But if you missed the episode last
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week, I'm enamored with puffins. I really want to see one.
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I had no idea, though, that that was their sound.
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Yeah. So maybe not order. So that's your educational piece of the pocket.
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Maybe not order things from China. I love this thing.
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It's probably made in Taiwan. We're going to look right now.
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Does the brand donate to Protecting Wildlife?
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Anyway, just a little tangent there, just a recap of last week.
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But we did want to get you guys in here to talk about something very serious, though.
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Turning the mood down a little bit here. We want to talk to real employees who
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are actively working in places where vacancy rate has really taken its toll.
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And with all the proposed changes and cuts and efficiency efforts,
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we want to put a face on that and put a story behind what impact that's going to have on employees.
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And Kathy works at Cherry Hospital, right?
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Yes, Cherry Hospital. And Wendell works at Harnett now? Yes. Harnett, correct.
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So prisons and DHHS facilities are right at the top of that list of job cut areas.
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And we've spoken to the secretaries of both of those agencies,
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Secretary Dismukes and Secretary Songvai, have agreed to come on the podcast.
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Happy to do it and very friendly and all that. So we'll have them on.
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But honestly, I think they would admit themselves that the most important people
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to hear from right now in terms of how cuts, because Suzanne,
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you're going to see cuts in this budget. Yeah, it's coming.
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And how cuts would actually affect the public and how it affects the employees,
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there's nobody better to tell us than those inside the walls.
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So tell us all about it. No, we won't just throw you to the wolves here.
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But what is the situation like, Kathy?
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You already have units closed because we are short of staff.
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Trying to get staff in there is difficult with the pay.
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In the private sector, they get paid quite a bit more than what they do in the state facilities.
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And so it affects a lot of people. It affects the citizens of North Carolina,
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people that are in the emergency rooms waiting for a bed. And you can't get
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a bed because you have two units closed down.
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So I don't think anybody would in a million years connect their wait at the
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emergency room as a citizen.
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With the lack of staff at a DHHS facility. That's fascinating.
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And while they're in the emergency room, they have to have one-on-one staff
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with them. So that ties up a staff sitting outside of a door.
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Yeah. And they could be in their weeks. We've had children actually in the emergency
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rooms for weeks waiting for a bed.
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Yeah. Are there positions that are particularly hard to fill?
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Your nurses and your health care techs or your psychiatric techs.
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You say that people can make a lot of money elsewhere. Can you give us some kind of comparison?
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Is it like 25% more elsewhere? Is it 50% more elsewhere?
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Well, nationally, psychiatric tech would start out between $30 and $38 within
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the state of North Carolina.
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If you're in a private sector, your starting salary is $19 to $27 an hour.
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We start out at $15 an hour. You're just not going to get people in there for
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that, and the job is very dangerous. You work with some dangerous patients.
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You work with people that are incapable to proceed trial. They're waiting for
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forensic evaluations, and they take top priority of beds. So you already are short staffing.
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You have units closed down, and then you have to give your beds to these people
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waiting for forensic evaluations.
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So it can get very, very dangerous at times.
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Tell us what a forensic evaluation is. A lot of our patients are waiting to
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see if they're even mentally able. Capable to proceed.
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Yeah. Withstand. with the trial. If they're deemed that they're not able to,
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then they would stay with us and that could be for a very long period.
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Or they may have been stabilized on some medication and then they are able to
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proceed with their trial.
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But there's currently a lawsuit now from the inmates.
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It's a federal lawsuit that was filed in April for long waits to try to get
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in to have an evaluation.
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We've had patients wait in the detention centers a year, two years,
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just to get a bed, to have an evaluation. And if they had gone to trial,
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served their time, a lot of those would already be out.
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So, Kathy, you just laid out why it's hard to fill those positions,
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right, of pay, benefits, long hours, and the dangers of the job.
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What do you say to a legislator who may think, well, these jobs have been vacant
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for two years. Let's just cut them because they obviously aren't needed.
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Well, actually, yes, they're vacant, but they are being filled by temp or agency staff.
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So if you eliminate all the vacant positions, well, then you're causing a further
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crisis because those are people that are filling those positions that are getting
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paid a much higher rate than what your state employees are getting paid.
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Well, it sounds like you're saying they're vacant because we don't pay anywhere
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near what the competition does.
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And then them being vacant doesn't mean we can do without them. We end up hiring temps.
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So we're not saving any money by these things being vacant. And I know Suzanne
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and I have run into it at the legislature.
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There's people who think that, okay, with the money from vacant jobs,
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agencies are probably buying furniture and doing all kinds of stuff.
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And in some cases, who knows? They may be. But the bottom line is people are
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having to pick up the work, do the work.
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They're having to work multiple shifts. So you're paying tons of overtime because
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people are having to stay over.
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They're working 16, 17-hour days, coming back in, doing it the next day.
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They're tired. It affects their family life.
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We were talking earlier. You said there's been a lot of turmoil in that line of work, period.
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Because of the things you just described, it can be a very difficult thing mental health-wise.
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It is. You have PTSD, staff burnout rate.
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We've had quite a few suicides over the past couple years. Here in state government? Yes.
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Yes. In state government, in the facility that I'm in, we've had four over the
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last two years that have committed suicide.
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It's very stressful. It's a very stressful environment.
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You have a lot of health issues, divorce rate. It just affects everything.
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So everything Kathy's saying, Wendell, makes me think of the work you've been
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doing on behalf of Scenic with a national organization called One Voice that
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represents correctional personnel and law enforcement.
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Yes. And y'all put out a report called I Am Not Okay, talking about the mental
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health challenges that working in a correctional setting brings.
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And that sounds kind of similar.
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Yeah, it does. PTSD, the stress, the burnout. I mean, we're facing the same
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thing that Kathy's facing in DHHS.
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The only sad thing is we don't have TEMPs.
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You know, when you cut positions, the work is still the work.
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You have your captains doing officer work. They're on the floor. We're feeding.
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We're bringing in trucks. We're doing showers. We're doing everything that the
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line staff is doing just to make sure that the prison meets its expectations.
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You know, we got to meet the state and federal guidelines. You got to make sure
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the offenders get what they're supposed to have, the proper medical time,
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the proper yard time, the proper, you know, or their file grievances or lawsuits.
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You know, so it's tough trying to get this done. If we're losing people and
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we're not gaining, it becomes even more stressful.
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And we're already instituting mandatory overtime three or four days.
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So now you have staff that's working long hours, more days.
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And it's hard to say, hey, I want to give you vacation. but the other shift
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is they have a bunch of call-outs or we have a bunch of offenders at the hospital
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or we have some that need one-on-one observation.
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Instead of them needing three or four officers, they might need seven,
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eight, which is half my shift. And what's the rate for overtime?
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Is it one and a half times or is it? Five and a half. Yeah, totally.
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So you're basically paying half as much more than if you just filled the job.
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Instead of just raising the salary.
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And our correctional officers are the third lowest paid in the country.
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Yeah. So it's very telling, especially when, like you said, artists,
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if you look at other states, like South Carolina, their correctional just bumped
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up over, I forgot how many years it was, that they were like one of the last in the United States.
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And their officers are making $50,000.
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I mean, come on. And that's South Carolina. And it's not even other states.
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John's trash in South Carolina. No, I mean, seriously, though, we're way more.
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But we're so much better than all the other states.
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Which is a thing. We really do feel like North Carolina is the best.
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North Carolina is actually very progressive. But then you look at what we pay
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our public employees, not in how we treat our retirees, not in so many things that matter.
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And that's the thing. We need to walk the walk. But it's not just other states
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that are adjacent to us that can steal our correctional folks.
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Local government pays a lot more for a detention center in a sheriff's office
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than working in a prison.
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And plus the skills, because I was on special teams for years.
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I have specialized training.
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I can go to the private sector or work for a municipality.
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I've made double what I'm making. Yeah. Because of my certifications.
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We've made the point before, too, that those special certifications,
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that extra training you get, when people leave state government,
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they take all that with them, and the state has paid to train employees who go elsewhere.
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My brother worked at a prison and did that. He went to a county chair. Make a lot more money.
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But, well, I was just curious. I know the average life expectancy for a correctional officer.
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I mean, yeah, that was shocking. It's basically 58.
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Yeah, I was going to say, it's worth 60. Or three years after retirement.
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Most correctional officers die. My gosh. Either three years or.
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Because of how incredibly stressful and the physical and mental toll that takes.
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You know, Kathy just mentioned suicides in HHS.
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I know that y'all deal with that, too. We don't see it. We've had them.
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I think I've seen more alcohol abuse, drugs.
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Usually those are the bigger things for corrections because they're just trying to combat the burnout.
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Self-medicating. Self-medicating. You know, and then, like I said,
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your home life, your divorce.
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You see a lot of breakups. I've seen a lot of staff get divorced.
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It's terrible for the family, for folks to be in that level of stressful of
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a position, and then on top of that, give them all these vacancies to deal with.
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You never know when you go into work if you're coming home. And I wanted to,
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because I think most people would understand the dangers of working in a prison,
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particularly a prison that may be one of those 60 percent understaffed prisons.
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So I think that makes sense to the regular person. But I don't think people pick up on that.
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It's dangerous like that in a DHHS facility, too.
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I know, Kathy, we were talking just a little bit before we started the podcast
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about people getting hurt, tragically hurt.
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We've had multiple, multiple staff, some of my good friends that have lifelong
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disabilities, can't even ride two hours down the road because of back issues.
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Or they've had reconstructive surgery because they've had bones in their face
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broken or they've lost limb fingers on their hand.
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Or you're under the constant stress of, like the prisons, the patients ganging
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together and taking over that unit, and you're understaffed,
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you know, it's a very dangerous situation.
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And both of y'all are responsible not only for yourselves coming out okay at
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the end of the day, but for the folks in your facility being okay,
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the folks you're responsible for.
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You know, as an OIC, I'm in charge of the prison.
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Everything that happens on the prison, I answer for. I have to approve.
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If anything moves, leaves, comes in, I have to okay it.
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And it's hard to manage your staff when they have needs or things arise or things
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that we didn't plan for happen.
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Now we have to figure out, are you not going to call people in at two o'clock in the morning?
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Or how do we get this done? Plus, we have to feed the offenders,
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make sure they're getting ready for work, make sure they're getting ready for
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medical trips. We're transferring.
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We got to go through our safety precautions and go through that whole process.
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So there's a lot going on with very few people.
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And it's not just safety for the officers.
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It's safety for your offenders. And the biggest thing is we're charged with
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protecting and serving the offenders and the public. Correct.
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And we got to make sure the offenders are safe. Yeah. And sometimes...
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Than I safe. And in the Department of Health and Human Services,
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where they're most of us, I mean, it takes a special type of person to work
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in that type of environment.
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And you really care quite a bit. You care a lot about your patients.
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And, you know, you want to do the best by them that you can.
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And you have this one over here that is having an issue that wants to talk to you.
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But, you know, you're so understaffed, you just can't tend to the needs like
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you should. So just to recap where we stand with jobs, the Senate's budget proposed
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a lot of job cuts to DHHS facilities.
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The main group was mental health, development, disabilities,
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and substance use of 290 jobs. Would that be Cherry Hospital?
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That would be Cherry Hospital, O'Berry Center. And then there were several other
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DHHS categories. They kind of broke them all apart.
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The second largest group was adult correction.
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They're going to cut 136 positions if their budget were to pass.
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Susanna, I'll turn to you.
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You mentioned earlier that you had maybe some insight into what the House is
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doing, but I mean, I don't know if you can get into specifics,
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but are they on the same track? I mean, there's job cuts in these budgets.
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We were all scattered this morning in different appropriation subcommittee meetings.
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So, yeah, it's taken us a minute to digest all of it. But there were job cuts
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across the board. You know, I mean, the idea everywhere, obviously.
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Federal government on down, is, hey, it's efficient if we cut more stuff.
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And the reason it's important to hear people like Kathy and Wendell is because,
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yeah, that may sound really good, but does the public think it's efficient?
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I think the most striking thing I think the public would take so far from this
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is both of y'all talked about hospitals.
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So, Kathy, you made the point that y'all not having enough people means the
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emergency rooms have to deal with this. And then that makes a longer wait for the public.
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And then, Wendell, you were talking about how many officers y'all have to send.
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Yeah, just for an inmate to go to a medical appointment.
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Right. So imagine how at the medical facility that consumes their personnel
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as well. And would the public think that's efficient?
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You know, people get very upset over DMV lines. They have no idea their emergency
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room lines are connected to the lack of investment in our salaries in this state
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that has left us with this vacancy rate.
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And if you have a family member who's having a mental health crisis,
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do you really want them languishing in an emergency room waiting for a bed and
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with staff that are not equipped to handle those type of things?
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And if you're not rich, they need to have the facilities that the state has.
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Because this is your grandma, this is your mom This is your brother,
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your sister These are your loved ones I think hospitals might be on board with.
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Well, I mean, the mental health crisis in the state generally has been a huge
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burden to the hospitals as well.
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It's one of the burdens we share. They get dumped into the prison system.
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If they're not in DHHS, they're coming to us.
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And, you know, we have to monitor, not just monitor predators,
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but also monitor our mental health population.
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I know which ones take meds. We monitor. We even call down there,
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hey, we're doing the med line.
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I didn't see this person, this person. And we know they will have an episode.
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Or we may have to fight with that person because their cognitive abilities and
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they might start slipping or have hearing voices.
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So those things are something that we're very cognizant of, making sure that
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our mental health offenders get their meds.
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Well, they end up there because they're not getting the help they need on the outside.
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I mean, and that leads to crimes that some of them would not have committed
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if they had gotten the mental health.
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And I know Senator Bergen tried to make a big point in last year's budget of
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addressing a growing mental health crisis in this country and in this state.
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And we have not, as a country or state, over decades addressed it appropriately.
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So now you've got an expenditure it would require that is so exorbitant,
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it's not doable all at once.
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But I know Senator Bergen tried to go a long way last year in the budget towards
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addressing this, but it is a long-term problem. And in the meantime.
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Y'all get to hold the results of that every day.
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And you're doing it while being asked to do it with not enough people and by
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being maligned by the very taxpayers that you're trying to help a lot of the time.
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And that's why we felt like it's really important for people to hear from y'all
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because it's easy to be mad at a faceless state employee and not know what they're
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going through and what you're being affected by that is a byproduct of them
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not having enough help to do their job.
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You wish we didn't have to have prisons at all, right? You wish you didn't have
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to have mental institutions at all, right? But that's not reality.
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We don't live in the land of sunshines and rainbows, right?
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And the reality is if you want a safe society, a safe neighborhood,
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you have to pay for it, right?
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You have to invest in it. You have to invest. So it's not realistic to say,
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oh, we're not paying for the—we're going to cut all the state employees. And it's not possible.
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I mean— Well, one of my thoughts this morning, I went to transportation.
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The jobs listed, you know, that they're cutting. and I went back and we've still got a crisis.
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We've still got a vacancy crisis and you're cutting positions that need to be
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filled. You're going the opposite direction.
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These positions need to be filled for state government to run efficiently and
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provide the critical public services that taxpayers are paying for.
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Yeah, it's just weird. I've gotten to kind of argue, and you were on this as
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well, Suzanne, on Facebook with a guy who was like, you know,
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the private sector can do anything the public sector can do.
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Well, obviously not, you know, like. Well, no, that is my question,
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though, John, because when Kathy was talking about what you can make per hour
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in the private sector, I think many a politician might hear that and say, OK.
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Well, then we need them to go make more money. We'll just privatize everything.
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However, that's without any benefits. And so what you're going to be getting
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in those jobs, it may leave you with more lawsuits.
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It may, you know, that's a lot of liability. And that's generally what has happened in the prisons.
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Yeah. When North Carolina had privatized, the state had to take those prisons
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back over. Yeah, there were three that had been privatized.
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Because the conditions weren't good.
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There was a lot of lawsuits. And you've seen that in other states like Texas.
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Oh, yeah. And, you know, so it happens. It's penny wise, pound foolish every
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time. It doesn't pan out. We even see it with agency staff.
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I mean, because they don't have an investment in it. They just come in.
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They may be a traveling nurse that comes in and might only be there for six
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months and they don't get invested.
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Yes. Part of the purpose of benefits is because you want people to care about
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their community, their state, and know this is my career.
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I'm not doing this gig because this is what I can get right now,
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and maybe I'll get more money later somewhere else. You're hoping they commit
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that time and the training, because, Kathy, you were talking about how it's a turnstile.
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Y'all train people, and then they leave. And I know, Wendell,
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y'all experience the same thing, and it costs the state a fortune.
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A fortune. Well, we train for CNAs, and so people will come in,
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go through the class, get their certification, step out and realize what they're
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going to have to deal with.
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They're like, nope, and they leave. And they're taking that other places.
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So we have spent two months paying you, training you, and paying for that training.
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And then you leave and use that somewhere else. Good money after bed.
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And I know, Wendell, y'all go through that. Oh, yeah. A lot of staff will come
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just so they can get law enforcement experience in certain things.
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And then they'll go to the sheriff's department, police department.
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And it costs a lot to train a correctional officer. I want to say it's over $30,000.
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Yeah, per officer. when they're fully trained, uniforms, everything.
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And how many stay more than a year? I would say probably 60% of them are gone. So think about that.
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We're paying tens of thousands of dollars per person that doesn't even stay more than a year.
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And like you said, we were talking about this with some people who work in prisons the other night.
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They hear that second or third gate clink behind them on that first day on the
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job, and some of them are like, no, I'm out, because it's so serious.
23:40
It's that hearing that noise makes it clear.
23:42
Well, and plus we have a lot of younger officers now.
23:45
You'd be 18. They have no life experience.
23:49
I have a 19-year-old.
23:51
Right. You know, and it's different when you go into a prison and you have an emergency.
23:55
And you actually see someone stabbed in front of you or there's a fire and you've
24:00
never dealt with people screaming.
24:02
There's alarms. It's a lot going on.
24:06
And now you're going, what am I doing? And there's offenders running around
24:10
and you're like, am I safe?
24:11
And so now they're rethinking everything that they when they came in.
24:15
So it can be a culture shock. And it's so strange listening to y'all because
24:19
sometimes, Kathy, it sounds like some folks you're working with should probably
24:23
be where Wendell is. and some folks Wendell's working with should probably be
24:27
where you are. And that's got to be tough.
24:29
If you're HHS and you're not expecting.
24:32
It's very tough. To kind of be a correctional officer. Yeah.
24:35
And be paid $15 an hour to do it. Yeah.
24:39
Goodness. With no protections other than crisis intervention training,
24:43
which is a hands-off training.
24:44
Which I don't understand how they make it. Yeah. How do you hands-off if somebody's attacking?
24:49
Well, you use a team approach, but your whole purpose is to de-escalate the situation.
24:54
Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't because before you even get there,
24:58
it's escalated way past.
25:01
Well, in a team approach, when your team is 23%, 30% vacant.
25:05
I guess you throw your team at them.
25:06
You don't have a team. You have part of the team.
25:09
You get hurt. That's what happens. You get hurt.
25:12
And I don't want to make it sound like the job is just fighting all the time.
25:16
There are so many rewarding aspects of the job because you're really helping
25:19
people and you're helping them get through a mental health crisis, but it's dangerous.
25:23
Yeah. See, y'all, state employees are real people, and I think I have met some
25:28
of the most dedicated people.
25:31
Most because they care. At the end of the day, we care about our job.
25:34
We care about the work we're doing, and we care about the people.
25:38
You might not always agree with their different views or their perspectives,
25:43
but at the end of the day, we know we're there to make sure that they're safe.
25:46
They go back to their loved ones. and we want to make it back to our loved ones.
25:51
So it's a mutual symbiotic relationship.
25:54
We're trying to work with them so they work with us so we can all get them either
25:58
out of prison or get the one they need to be.
26:00
I think that's one of the things that shocks people when they do visit a prison
26:04
is that a lot of people think from television that there's some sort of innately
26:08
adversarial relationship between
26:10
personnel in the prison and offenders and it's not like that at all.
26:15
And for the same reason you just said, But I've always had officers tell me
26:18
if I respect them, they are much more likely to respect me and we're all going
26:22
to be OK at the end of the day.
26:24
We all want to be breathing at the end of this day. Oh, yeah.
26:26
Inmates want to be just as safe as staff. So and I've seen offenders protect
26:32
staff in situations and defend staff.
26:35
And it's the same. So it's so at the end of the day, they have brothers, sisters, mothers.
26:40
Most of them don't want no one to get hurt. They just want to do their time,
26:44
but you just never know what it's going to be in the next 10 minutes. It could be fine.
26:49
It could be then it might be just an issue. You just don't know what can happen.
26:53
So a question for y'all, Artis and Suzanne, and it goes back to what I just
26:57
said about the Senate's budget.
26:58
If these two places are among the most dangerous and scary and they have the
27:05
largest vacancy rates, why is the Senate going after those maybe more so than
27:10
others? Is it just because they have so many vacancies?
27:13
Size, the sheer size. I think, and I don't know. I mean, obviously the Senate
27:16
didn't pull me into a room to decide this budget.
27:18
Well, they should have. They should. We've always thought that we would be very
27:22
helpful at that. However, my guess is they're looking at number of positions
27:27
overall in agencies and saying, you know, they could probably take a haircut of X number of jobs.
27:32
I'm sure they have logic behind the numbers they're putting on paper.
27:36
What we don't believe they have enough of is testimony from folks who work inside
27:42
these places, helping them understand so that these are not spreadsheets. These are people.
27:48
And I think the agency heads, again, they're very open and they're willing to
27:52
come on the podcast and we'll talk to them.
27:54
But they can only do so much to explain on behalf of their agency why they need the positions.
28:00
They'll tell you they're not walking the halls the way y'all are.
28:03
Agency heads, I mean, I can't tell you how people are doing specific jobs within Scenic.
28:09
I'm not walking in their shoes, so I'm not going to presume I could tell somebody
28:13
everything about the jobs at Scenic. And an agency head is no different.
28:16
These are huge agents. So you need to hear from the people.
28:19
And I especially don't understand how you could ever think you're going to do
28:23
cuts in the name of efficiency without talking to people because I will guarantee
28:28
you again that the idea that, oh my goodness,
28:30
the burden we're putting on
28:32
the healthcare system and the burden we're putting on citizens waiting for
28:36
actual emergent health care, emergency health care, is affected by HHS and the
28:42
prisons. No one would ever put those two together.
28:45
Don't worry about it. AI is going to take care of it.
28:48
AI. It'll decide everything. It's fine. I think if the public knew how many
28:51
offenders are in emergency rooms or at hospitals daily, I mean,
28:57
you're talking huge numbers.
28:59
And what are we paying for that? It's astronomical.
29:02
We'll send two or three offenders, they'll spend three, four days apiece in
29:06
the hospital. My goodness.
29:08
I mean, and then they'll come back and nothing. Yeah, I had a family member
29:11
with an episode recently, and I think there's like a 72-hour limit.
29:15
You have to stay in the hospital, right? Yes. Before you.
29:18
So, I mean. Well, if there's one thing y'all could leave everybody with as a
29:22
thought about as lawmakers are moving ahead with these budgets and what they're
29:27
going to do, and as whoever decides what efficiency cuts there's going to be,
29:32
whether it's the House plan for that or the Senate's plan for the auditor to
29:36
do that, what one thought would you leave them with that you want them to really
29:40
think about from somebody who has actually done the work?
29:44
Do you want somebody to go home from work?
29:48
Do you want to look after the people that are looking after your citizens,
29:51
your constituents, the people that voted you in?
29:54
Do you want the staff that work with those people to go home,
29:58
Or do you want them to be in a grave someplace because it's that it's that serious?
30:02
And do you want those same people to get the services that they need?
30:06
Or do you want them out on the streets? Right.
30:09
Doing this. Or do you want to see them on the news with a gun in a school or,
30:14
you know, in a public place in a Walmart?
30:16
You know, because they can't they've screamed and screamed and screamed trying
30:19
to get help. And there's just no services because everything's been cut so much.
30:24
Is that what you want? That's the thing. That's what I kind of was getting to.
30:27
Like, if you don't pay for it this way, you're going to pay for it.
30:30
Oh, you pay for it. Yeah. Either way.
30:32
Yeah. And I guess I'm along the same lines as Kathy.
30:35
The main thing is, do you want more lawsuits? Do you want more injuries?
30:40
Do you want more property damage and damage to your officers?
30:45
Because they're paying for officers who are injured, mental breakdowns.
30:49
So these things are real. The burnout is real.
30:52
You have staff that work all the time that some of them just,
30:56
I just can't do it. They're shaking. You could see it. They're stressed.
30:59
And, you know, you're like, well, I still need two more people to work the weekend.
31:03
Yeah, you're like, I hear you, but. Yeah. Which is awful.
31:07
My child has a societal and I
31:08
want to go on vacation and I don't need to help my mom move or, you know.
31:13
And they have real world problems. They have family with dementia.
31:16
There's things they need. Life keeps lifing. Yeah, life is lifing.
31:19
But the prison, we're 24-7.
31:21
It's got to run. I need people here. I got to get this guy transported.
31:26
I got to get this taken care of.
31:27
And at the end of the day, I can't say we can't do it. And during Hurricane
31:32
Helene, there was a lot of talk about Hurricane Helene and getting relief.
31:37
These hospitals, the correctional facilities, you know, the staff had lost their
31:42
homes. They had lost their loved ones and they were going to work.
31:47
You know, they had to. So they're working, not knowing if they've got anything to go home to.
31:53
So when we talk about the expense of Hurricane Helene, we think about the staff,
31:58
the state employees that lost everything.
32:01
And they moved folks out of prisons. They moved folks out of HHS facilities. All in the midst of that.
32:07
They showed up for those people. They showed up.
32:09
Thank y'all so much for everything you do every day for the state.
32:12
And thank you for what you do for scenic.
32:14
You know, the fact that y'all make the time. I know, Wendell,
32:17
how long has it been since you've slept at this point? It's been a while. Yesterday.
32:24
Okay. So we have 24 hours here. If I stay up that late, I get kind of crazy.
32:28
Yeah, okay. Wendell can go along. I mean, he's used to it.
32:31
That's the sad thing. He's used to it. But that is not good for a person.
32:35
Well, I mean, and being first vice president, a lot of times I'm getting on committees, Zooms.
32:41
You know, we're talking about the issues, things going on. So I have to stay
32:46
abreast of what's going on. Plus, family.
32:49
Kids have to go to football practice.
32:52
You know, like I said, life is life. And so on top of all the things I'm doing,
32:55
whether I'm working or I'm doing stuff for senior, I've got to make sure life is taken care of, too.
33:00
We appreciate y'all. And we're here because we care about our fellow co-workers.
33:04
And y'all were both down there last week, just for the record. Yeah.
33:08
It's a legislature. All the way to the end. What was your take on last week at the legislature?
33:13
Oh, don't get me started. I was very angry. I was angry.
33:17
Yeah. It was very disappointing. But I do think we were noticed.
33:21
Yeah. I think that's the biggest takeaway, that we were noticed.
33:24
And they just see that we were very disappointed. And that should resonate with
33:28
them that we're not happy with their performance.
33:31
And just so that people know what we're talking about, last week when they came
33:35
down, the vote that was before the House that day was to remove the employment
33:40
protections for every employee at the Office of the State Auditor.
33:44
And, of course, the concern is once one agency does it, every agency is going to want that.
33:49
And I think, Kathy, you were really eloquent when we did a little video afterwards
33:54
and just asked you, what do you feel like at this point, having heard the whole
33:58
debate on the floor and having talked to lawmakers all day? I was angry. I felt dehumanized.
34:03
I just felt deflated and devalued. You used that word.
34:07
I felt very devalued because we have protections in place now,
34:12
and we already see that this person got hired because they knew this person.
34:18
And that's with the protections in place.
34:20
So we can just only imagine those protections go away. Especially in small towns.
34:25
It's going to be, you know, everybody knows everybody.
34:27
And it's going to be who paid who or who, you know, can do what for me.
34:31
Well, thank you all for coming and fighting for your fellow employees and scenic
34:35
members. We do it with pleasure.
34:37
Well, thank you. So question of the week. This is going to be kind of a real shift of gears.
34:42
Music.
34:48
So this week's is going to be kind of not an opinion question or anything.
34:53
I see here that Colin Campbell has reported that the House is putting its proposed
34:58
list of state symbols into their budget bill.
35:01
And I want to go through the list and ask y'all, what do you think?
35:05
Their suggestion for the, okay, we can do state cookie. We've already talked
35:09
about that one. Do you remember? Yeah, it's the Moravian. Moravian cookie.
35:14
Okay. Moravian cookie. What do you think the state star is? The Moravian Star. The Moravian Star.
35:20
I'm telling you, the Winston-Salem lobby is very strong. Yes, the Scythe.
35:25
State television show, we've already talked about that. What was that?
35:28
Andy Griffith. Andy Griffith, yeah.
35:31
Okay, so State Rice Festival. What? Anybody got anything for that?
35:35
Yeah, I didn't even know about that. It's actually fascinating.
35:38
We do. And I want to go eat chicken and rice. Possum, hot eat rice.
35:41
Are we a big producer of rice? And where is this state?
35:44
Okay, the name of the rice festival, do you know? I'm sorry,
35:47
Department of Agriculture.
35:48
I had no idea. North Carolina Rice Festival.
35:51
Guess what town it's in. Is it Riceville? It's in the community of Winnabow.
35:57
Oh, Winnabow. Yeah, Winnabow. It's Winnabow, right? Okay, what about the state's
36:00
saltwater reptile? Anybody?
36:03
Alligator, I would imagine. No. We have alligators?
36:06
Yeah, we got... Our saltwater reptile wouldn't be an alligator?
36:09
No, that's crazy, huh? No, it's the... What? I said shark. I don't know.
36:15
The loggerhead. Shark is not a reptile.
36:18
I was thinking saltwater. That's all I was focusing on.
36:22
I was thinking saltwater. I did go to college in the mountains.
36:25
We didn't. The loggerhead sea turtle.
36:27
That's pretty cool, though, I guess. I can roll with that. I like sea turtles.
36:30
Let's see. State Veterans History
36:32
Museum is the Veterans History Museum in Transylvania County, apparently.
36:38
And the last one is the official fried apple pie festival. Oh, for goodness sakes.
36:44
Okay. Okay, that must be in the mountains. I need to know where they are.
36:47
Everybody guess where that is.
36:48
That's in, and I'm with him, in the mountains. Yeah, it is in the mountains.
36:53
Hendersonville or something? Waynesville. No, no, Sparta.
36:56
Oh, okay. Which is like, ain't that like a little bit north of Boone or up there?
37:01
Yeah, I mean, I think of apple country as being more that pocket towards Transylvania
37:05
between Bunkham and Transylvania.
37:08
Because I went up there to go get some golden delicious.
37:12
Now I know we will get schooled By people after this Send all your complaints
37:18
Town of Sparta We love the town of Sparta.
37:23
Well, that's an interesting list, and it'll be in the state budget,
37:27
apparently. Now it won't pie.
37:29
Travis Fain, our friend formerly of WRAL, suggests that they add the Eastern
37:35
North Carolina cheese biscuit as the official biscuit of the state.
37:39
Oh, yeah. And that's a good biscuit.
37:41
Wilson, they have a lot of those. I want the official bird to become the puffin.
37:46
But they left out Petey Pablo.
37:48
I heard that, that Petey Pablo didn't make it. Wow. In the world.
37:52
No raising up there, huh?
37:54
As much as he's done for the North Carolina.
37:57
So the Hurricanes are playing Washington Capitals right now in the Stanley Cup playoffs, right?
38:03
And they have these towels that they give out to the people at the Hurricanes
38:07
games, right? Everybody gets a towel. Right.
38:09
And it has on it instructions, and it says, like, step one, grab towel,
38:15
step two, raise up, and three, spin it like a helicopter, right?
38:19
So these Washington Capitals fans on TikTok or Twitter were like going crazy.
38:24
Like, why do they need instructions for how to spin their towel?
38:28
Like, they're so stupid.
38:29
Because next thing you know, people are going to start whipping each other with
38:32
a towel. And then everybody's like, it's the song, bro. Like, come on. Yeah.
38:36
Anyway, so that's our episode this week. I thought it was very informative slash entertaining.
38:42
Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Woo-hoo. Bye. Bye.
38:47
Music.