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With Great Power #291... 22 Panels with Michael Torma · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:00
  Michael Torma: Bound…
• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody! Welcome back to 22 Panels. My guest tonight is the Senior Sales Manager at Oni Press, Michael Torma. Torma to his friends, and apparently also his wife.
• 0:15
  Michael Torma: Yeah, hi, how's it going, everyone? How are we feeling out there?
• 0:21
  Tad Eggleston: It's going good with me.
• 0:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right? Thanks for having me.
• 0:24
  Tad Eggleston: Everyone is probably my mom, my brother, Britt, and John. If we get lucky, a few other people.
• 0:31
  Michael Torma: Perfect! Well, hi, I'm, I'm Michael Torma, if you ever have, like, a family dinner, please invite me, I would like to be there, and .
• 0:40
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 0:41
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I'm down.
• 0:42
  Tad Eggleston: with that?
• 0:43
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 0:44
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you gotta come to Chicagoland.
• 0:46
  Michael Torma: I'll come to Chicago, I got fam- well, I had family, they just moved closer to us, but, I might be out there for C2E2, so…
• 0:53
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, if you are, you need to talk to me, because I have a panel that I could plug you into pretty easily.
• 1:01
  Michael Torma: Well, there you go. When is, C2? Is it February?
• 1:04
  Tad Eggleston: It's the 27th to the 29th of March.
• 1:08
  Michael Torma: Mmm… yeah. Yeah, well…
• 1:10
  Tad Eggleston: It is the… it is the same weekend as… I wanna say Mocha and…
• 1:19
  Tad Eggleston: The Southern California con that's not San Diego Comic-Con. GalaxyCon, does that sound right?
• 1:25
  Michael Torma: That sounds right to me, yeah. It's not, it's not Galaxy, what is it? I can't remember.
• 1:31
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, I was kind of disappointed when I was looking… I was looking at the beat one morning, I'm like, really? We're up against all of those? So I can't get my indie people to come in because they need to be over at the other one?
• 1:43
  Michael Torma: Right. Half of.
• 1:44
  Tad Eggleston: my friends from California, rather than coming to Chicago, they're gonna sleep in their own beds at night.
• 1:50
  Michael Torma: Right? Yeah. Like, why travel across the country and freeze when you can be in beautiful, beautiful… Chicago.
• 1:58
  Michael Torma: No.
• 1:59
  Tad Eggleston: Chicago's pretty awesome.
• 2:01
  Michael Torma: I've only been there once or twice, honestly, and I… I loved it. I thought it was great, good food, nice.
• 2:07
  Tad Eggleston: I always say, you know, Chicago's known as the second city.
• 2:11
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:11
  Tad Eggleston: And I always say, okay, but here's the thing, it's the second city in everything.
• 2:17
  Tad Eggleston: like… Better theater scene in New York? Sure, but then it's Chicago.
• 2:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:23
  Tad Eggleston: Better music scene in Seattle, sure, but then it's Chicago. Better museums in Washington, D.C? Sure, but then it's Chicago.
• 2:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Better food in New York? Sure, but then it's… yeah.
• 2:35
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe, you know, people debate whether it's New York or LA, which almost makes me say, I think Chicago's actually won, and New York and LA are tied for two.
• 2:45
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I… to be honest, I mean, in terms of pizza, New York has…
• 2:50
  Tad Eggleston: Pizza, pizza, don't you dare.
• 2:53
  Michael Torma: I can't… I won't do it on here. I'm a huge pizza guy, and I… I love…
• 2:59
  Tad Eggleston: If you start telling me Chicago-style pizza is like pie or some shit like that, we might…
• 3:03
  Michael Torma: No, no!
• 3:04
  Tad Eggleston: I am not one of those dudes.
• 3:07
  Michael Torma: Pizza comes in many forms, and I support the whole spectrum of pizza out there.
• 3:13
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 3:13
  Michael Torma: Except, oh, what is it? There is the…
• 3:16
  Michael Torma: Oh, God, I can't remember it. It's in PA. It's in, it's not, what is it, Platoon or something, PA? It's… it's the weirdest-looking pizza. It's just… it's dough with sauce, and then American cheese thrown on it.
• 3:31
  Michael Torma: Salami, and then…
• 3:32
  Tad Eggleston: Cheese.
• 3:33
  Michael Torma: American cheese slices thrown on it, and then green peppers underneath the cheese.
• 3:39
  Michael Torma: And I'm sure all together on a sandwich, that's not that bad.
• 3:42
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 3:42
  Michael Torma: Call it a PC.
• 3:43
  Tad Eggleston: See, I'm gonna say something right now. American cheese is the wrong cheese for ANYTHING.
• 3:52
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's just plastic. It's good for, you know, like, a doorstop or something.
• 3:56
  Tad Eggleston: it… it… It is… If you have specific
• 4:05
  Tad Eggleston: personal childhood memories tied to it. Acceptable.
• 4:10
  Michael Torma: for grilled cheese sandwiches, but… Yeah.
• 4:13
  Tad Eggleston: But you will never call them gourmet grilled cheese sandwiches.
• 4:17
  Michael Torma: No.
• 4:17
  Tad Eggleston: And… and that is literally… It's only purpose.
• 4:23
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's…
• 4:24
  Tad Eggleston: Except white American… white American does…
• 4:28
  Tad Eggleston: Melt really well, so you can make a good queso with it.
• 4:32
  Michael Torma: Okay. I, I didn't realize that. I am not as much of a chef as I would have liked.
• 4:38
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I… well, I put it…
• 4:41
  Tad Eggleston: That's exception to the rule, and you're mixing in, like, peppers and red pepper and, you know, so…
• 4:47
  Michael Torma: Tomato, whatever.
• 4:48
  Tad Eggleston: just…
• 4:49
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's not just the cheese.
• 4:51
  Tad Eggleston: Eats.
• 4:51
  Michael Torma: It's the base of something else. It's the vehicle for another vehicle, for the chips, for the dip, for the bread, the quesadilla, whatever. No, Altoona. Altoona pizza style.
• 5:03
  Michael Torma: Look it up, it's insane.
• 5:06
  Tad Eggleston: At least it's not Scranton, because, like, Scranton Comics on the Green is where they introduced me to Saga, so I will take no bad talk about Scranton.
• 5:16
  Michael Torma: No, yeah, Scranton's,
• 5:17
  Tad Eggleston: Sounds great.
• 5:17
  Michael Torma: Sounds great! Yeah, I need to get over there.
• 5:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah, dude.
• 5:23
  Michael Torma: That's what I'm gonna do. So, so, I've actually, like…
• 5:26
  Tad Eggleston: I was so happy to be able to…
• 5:29
  Tad Eggleston: get in touch, because I'd been trying to track down an email address since you got your gig. I went, oh my god, Torma!
• 5:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 5:37
  Tad Eggleston: picture was on… you were in Publishers Weekly, and you were in The Beat, and I'm like, I know that guy! I know this dude! Because, like, for those of you who aren't my mom or brother, and haven't actually listened to every episode, if you go way back to March of…
• 5:57
  Tad Eggleston: I think it was 2022?
• 6:02
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Tad Eggleston: March of 2022.
• 6:05
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 6:06
  Tad Eggleston: I took my ill-advised, 22 Panels Comic Shop Tour.
• 6:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 6:13
  Tad Eggleston: Because my wife and I had separate spring breaks. So, so I spent 10 days in…
• 6:21
  Tad Eggleston: And hit, I think, 30 shops in… That's amazing. …in 11 states.
• 6:26
  Michael Torma: Yeah. I love that.
• 6:27
  Tad Eggleston: One of them was Third Eye, where I met you, interviewed you, so this is actually your second time on the air, just the first time where we talked…
• 6:37
  Tad Eggleston: Like, in-depth, rather than me just asking you questions onto my phone and then editing it in later.
• 6:42
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 6:43
  Tad Eggleston: And then, then when we came through, my wife and I came through again a year or two later.
• 6:49
  Tad Eggleston: We stopped in, and you actually recognized me, and that made me feel…
• 6:52
  Michael Torma: Dude!
• 6:53
  Tad Eggleston: You're so special.
• 6:56
  Michael Torma: That was, you know, the superpower that I had. I mean, it's… I think that's why I got picked up, by Oni, is because I… I like talking to people. I like being a, you know, a comic book guy. I…
• 7:11
  Michael Torma: a little bit about me, right? Like you said, Tad, I worked at Third Eye for years, and…
• 7:17
  Michael Torma: Growing up, you know, comics weren't as big as they were today, so when I found a comic book shop, I always got excited, and I went into one shop.
• 7:26
  Michael Torma: And I remember I saved $100, and I was gonna buy Hulk comic books, and I was super stoked. I remember I went to the guy at the counter, and I was like, hey, where's your Hulk comic books? And, like, he looked at me.
• 7:39
  Michael Torma: And he blew me off, and he turned on a little TV, like an old CRT that was on the counter, and just started watching, like, TV, and I'm just like…
• 7:48
  Michael Torma: I'm confused, I'm like a, you know, a 10-year-old kid…
• 7:51
  Tad Eggleston: like that. Yeah. I hate shops like that.
• 7:53
  Michael Torma: Right?
• 7:54
  Tad Eggleston: The only ones worse are the ones that do that to the women or the people of color who walk in.
• 8:02
  Michael Torma: Right, and just blow them off, and it's like… I…
• 8:05
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, you don't. You don't belong here.
• 8:07
  Michael Torma: You don't read comics. Yeah, get out of here. So, I mean…
• 8:11
  Tad Eggleston: The kids, it's also bad, because it's like, they assume you don't have any spending money.
• 8:15
  Michael Torma: Really?
• 8:16
  Tad Eggleston: What are your parents. Get out of my store. No loitering. Yeah, get out.
• 8:22
  Michael Torma: And I, I don't know, I hated that feeling, and so whenever I talk to someone in a comic book shop, or talk to anybody anywhere now.
• 8:32
  Michael Torma: It's just, you know, comics are for everybody, so everybody should feel welcome, and, you know, should be stoked about what I'm stoked about. Like, that's…
• 8:42
  Michael Torma: That's… that's what I take into it, you know?
• 8:45
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 8:46
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 8:47
  Tad Eggleston: So tell me how Oni Press picked you up.
• 8:50
  Michael Torma: So, funny enough…
• 8:51
  Tad Eggleston: How did that happen? Because again, I… like, if you go back… I mean, you probably remember when you got hired better than I do, but if you go back and listen to episodes from… from when you got hired, I think…
• 9:04
  Tad Eggleston: at least 3 weeks in a row, it came up that I needed to track you down. That's amazing. You got to… I mean, I think it was a news item one week.
• 9:14
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, I was on Bleeding Cool. It was me and then, Sierra Hahn, who just got hired as well.
• 9:23
  Tad Eggleston: Which, which, I need to talk to her, because I have heard…
• 9:29
  Tad Eggleston: Only amazing things from the creators working under her.
• 9:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah, she's amazing.
• 9:34
  Michael Torma: She's, super kind, super smart.
• 9:36
  Tad Eggleston: Krause and Chris Cantwell talk her up, and… yeah. Everybody who… I see that you're wearing, like, the EC Hawaiian shirt, which I didn't know existed, and I don't wear Hawaiian shirts, but…
• 9:50
  Michael Torma: bootleg, it doesn't exist.
• 9:52
  Michael Torma: I had it custom-made, it's the only.
• 9:54
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 9:55
  Tad Eggleston: So it's a one-of-a-kind.
• 9:57
  Michael Torma: One of a kind, yeah.
• 9:59
  Tad Eggleston: married to an art teacher, I have lots of one-of-a-kind.
• 10:02
  Michael Torma: t-shirts and sweatshir.
• 10:03
  Tad Eggleston: She screen prints them.
• 10:05
  Michael Torma: Oh, that's amazing!
• 10:06
  Tad Eggleston: See? I have a…
• 10:08
  Michael Torma: Old man yells at Cloud. It's so good. It's the best.
• 10:15
  Michael Torma: But, yeah, no, how did they, how did they get me? Well, so, Hunter…
• 10:20
  Michael Torma: Hunter Gorinson, who's the president, he…
• 10:24
  Michael Torma: he was working at Valiant at the time, years ago, when Exo Manowar first, like, hit during the new relaunch, right?
• 10:32
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 10:32
  Michael Torma: And I think this is maybe, like.
• 10:34
  Tad Eggleston: I was about to say, it had to be the relaunch, because…
• 10:37
  Tad Eggleston: A, it was Jim Shooter who was running Valiant when it, like, hit, and that B, like, both of us were young, young kids. I'm… I'm assuming you're younger than me, or my age. I could be wrong, you've got a hard age to peg.
• 10:55
  Michael Torma: I, yeah, I got a hard everything to peg, like…
• 10:58
  Tad Eggleston: But… but… Yeah, no, XO Man O' War, like, broke in, what, 1984?
• 11:07
  Michael Torma: Yeah, no, not… so Hunter… You mean at least the second go-round? Yeah, the second go-around, around the sun.
• 11:14
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe even the third go-round, I forget.
• 11:17
  Michael Torma: Oh, well, if you're counting… if you're counting the Acclaim stuff, which I.
• 11:21
  Tad Eggleston: Right!
• 11:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:23
  Michael Torma: it was Shooter, then it was The Acclaim, and then,
• 11:27
  Michael Torma: Yeah, then it died for a while, and then when it came back in re… it was, like, 2011, maybe? No.
• 11:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. When they had, like, Maybe 12, somewhere in there.
• 11:39
  Michael Torma: Where they can't…
• 11:40
  Tad Eggleston: Lapham, and Jeff Lemire, and…
• 11:44
  Michael Torma: Luis LaRosa, and all this stuff, like…
• 11:46
  Tad Eggleston: All sorts of…
• 11:49
  Michael Torma: All sorts of greats. Good times. I had more hair back then. But, no,
• 11:54
  Tad Eggleston: I've never known you with hair. I assumed you were just born without hair.
• 11:58
  Michael Torma: I… a lot of people do, but no, if you go back on my socials, you can find me. It's a… it's kind of the opposite. It's long, glorious hair, like Conan the Barbarian, and then, like, lightning mutton chops, and it's…
• 12:12
  Tad Eggleston: It's great.
• 12:13
  Michael Torma: It's pretty cool.
• 12:15
  Michael Torma: Throw it.
• 12:15
  Tad Eggleston: So essentially what you did is when you went bald, you decided to let the beard get longer.
• 12:21
  Michael Torma: Exactly. I need hair somewhere, I can't just be one big bald baby, you know?
• 12:26
  Tad Eggleston: He needed something to play with, so when you stopped having… when you stopped having the locks…
• 12:32
  Michael Torma: Right! You just went… it just brewed everything else.
• 12:35
  Michael Torma: No, Hunter, Hunter was working on… Now, does super glue itch?
• 12:40
  Tad Eggleston: Because I'm assuming that, really, it was just shaving it and then re-pleasing.
• 12:45
  Michael Torma: The super glue just didn't work out. I tried it, and it became too much… too much like the, oh god, what was the, was it Magic Mike? The… the little, magnetic pieces that you could move around? Harry, the old magnet… the magnet, toy, no? You remember something guy with the.
• 13:04
  Tad Eggleston: The big red flag.
• 13:05
  Michael Torma: I think I…
• 13:05
  Tad Eggleston: I kinda know what you're talking about, and I can't remember right now.
• 13:08
  Michael Torma: Yeah, let me see… Magnet…
• 13:11
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you could do…
• 13:13
  Michael Torma: Wooly Willy. That was it. Wooly Willy.
• 13:15
  Tad Eggleston: Did you ever see Inventing the Abbots?
• 13:18
  Michael Torma: I don't think so, no.
• 13:20
  Tad Eggleston: had Joaquin Phoenix in it, and, and, and, like…
• 13:24
  Tad Eggleston: he, he drew in sideburns to be like Elvis Presley for, for,
• 13:31
  Tad Eggleston: for a party at one point. So, I mean, you could just use Sharpie.
• 13:35
  Michael Torma: I… it's funny… it's funny you mention that. I… for… for ALA, this past year, it was in… where was it? In Pittsburgh? Philly?
• 13:47
  Tad Eggleston: That sounds right. Philly.
• 13:49
  Michael Torma: Really, yeah.
• 13:49
  Tad Eggleston: He's in Chicago this summer.
• 13:51
  Michael Torma: I know, I'm gonna try to see if I can get out there, but, we have enough staff in Chicago, actually, so I think they won't need Torma over there, but.
• 14:00
  Tad Eggleston: That's sad.
• 14:01
  Michael Torma: I know!
• 14:02
  Tad Eggleston: bought you pizza.
• 14:03
  Michael Torma: I… and see, maybe I'll still go. They… every… every year, they say, Torma, I think we're okay, I don't think we need ya.
• 14:10
  Tad Eggleston: and you say, but I'm the sales guy. You guys aren't sales!
• 14:15
  Michael Torma: Well, you're like…
• 14:17
  Tad Eggleston: editorial and crap!
• 14:19
  Michael Torma: Right. That's what I say. That's what I try to tell them. But, they…
• 14:23
  Tad Eggleston: You make the comics! I sell the comics! I sell the comics.
• 14:27
  Michael Torma: They, like, a week or two before the show, maybe, like, a month, actually, a month before the show, they'll be like, hey, Torma, you think you can make it to ALA? And I'm like, yeah, I can make it to ALA, of course. No, but Hunter… Hunter with Rebellion.
• 14:41
  Tad Eggleston: LA yet.
• 14:42
  Michael Torma: You should go to one, they're really good.
• 14:44
  Tad Eggleston: Well, the problem is, like…
• 14:46
  Tad Eggleston: because I'm not a librarian, they're really expensive. If I could get my school to send me, that would be amazing. Now, I do have a publisher.
• 14:57
  Tad Eggleston: that put in a couple of panel requests, and she put me as her preferred moderator. So, cross my fingers…
• 15:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 15:06
  Tad Eggleston: get to go this year because I'm moderating
• 15:09
  Tad Eggleston: a panel. That… that appears to be my best in. Either that, or is your plus one.
• 15:16
  Michael Torma: Yeah. One or the other. I'll drive up, I'll fit you in the suitcase.
• 15:19
  Tad Eggleston: I'll be your local staff.
• 15:21
  Michael Torma: It's perfect.
• 15:23
  Tad Eggleston: You know how bands have local crew?
• 15:26
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah!
• 15:26
  Tad Eggleston: LA is where everybody walks out with, what, 7 shopping carts worth of free books.
• 15:32
  Michael Torma: Oh, no.
• 15:32
  Tad Eggleston: Somebody to push one of your shopping carts.
• 15:35
  Michael Torma: Absolutely. I've seen… I've seen on the last day, librarians, running, running with… has to be, like, 12 tote bags full of books and freebies, and it's like…
• 15:47
  Michael Torma: the guns, the arms on these librarians is crazy. I know many librarians, I have librarians in the family.
• 15:55
  Tad Eggleston: is like their Christmas.
• 15:57
  Michael Torma: It's great, yeah. I hadn't been to an ALA before Oni, and that's a bummer, because it's such a great show, and it's so fun. But I love going to shows, and I love talking to people, so it's, any show you put me at, I'm always gonna have a good time.
• 16:12
  Tad Eggleston: Well, that's why I've got you here.
• 16:13
  Michael Torma: Exactly, yeah.
• 16:14
  Tad Eggleston: And then I interrupted you, and we didn't finish how they… we managed to get to Hunter Goranson, and then we fell down the…
• 16:23
  Tad Eggleston: The valiant rabbit hole of chats. So, Hunter Corenson!
• 16:30
  Michael Torma: So, Hunter… Hunter, was working at Valiant at the time, and… Him…
• 16:36
  Michael Torma: him and Matthew Klein, came down, and they bought the whole staff pizza, and they were like, yeah, we're just gonna talk to you about how you're selling comics and stuff, and, you know, we're eating, we're having a good time, and he goes, alright, well…
• 16:47
  Michael Torma: I gotta ask, how are you guys selling so many, like.
• 16:52
  Michael Torma: so many Exo Manowar comics. You guys are selling more Exo Manowar than probably anybody else in the country, and everyone on staff just looks at me, and I'm like, I don't know, man, I just love Exo Manowar, it's like Conan the Barbarian.
• 17:05
  Tad Eggleston: The same way I used to sell so many Saga, you just… you had one in your hands at all times, and when somebody said, what comic should I read? You just handed it to them. Yeah. And once it was in their hands, you started making the pitch.
• 17:22
  Michael Torma: Exactly. Once they have it in their hands, that's half the battle won.
• 17:26
  Tad Eggleston: 75% of the battle, particularly if the book's actually good.
• 17:30
  Michael Torma: If it's really good, yeah, and that… that early Valiant stuff was amazing, you know? I… I loved it, I thought it was great. I… to be honest, I haven't checked out too much of, like, the Valiant with, like, the Alien book stuff recently, but…
• 17:43
  Tad Eggleston: I've read a few.
• 17:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Tad Eggleston: They're not bad.
• 17:46
  Michael Torma: Okay, good!
• 17:47
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, really? I mean, my, my…
• 17:50
  Tad Eggleston: My biggest thing with Valiant, for the entire
• 17:54
  Tad Eggleston: because I haven't read enough Valiant, period. And really, it's just come down to…
• 17:59
  Tad Eggleston: I read too many damn comics.
• 18:02
  Michael Torma: There's so much.
• 18:03
  Michael Torma: So squeezing in that new thing that's in a genre that I already read so many of, that it's like…
• 18:10
  Tad Eggleston: I really want to add a superhero book right now.
• 18:14
  Michael Torma: Always! Add everything!
• 18:16
  Tad Eggleston: When it was… when it was the last Valiant, and it… it was an Exo Man O' War.
• 18:22
  Tad Eggleston: The last Valiant that I absolutely read was when it was Clunan writing for Liam Sharp.
• 18:31
  Michael Torma: That was fun. Clean wasn't on there… Too long, though. Was she?
• 18:36
  Tad Eggleston: No, it was just, like, a 6-issue mini.
• 18:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it was 6 or 7 issues.
• 18:41
  Tad Eggleston: like that.
• 18:42
  Tad Eggleston: Clunan and Conrad writing for, for, for Liam Sharp. It was, it was Liam's first work after.
• 18:53
  Michael Torma: The D.C.
• 18:53
  Tad Eggleston: Star Hedge.
• 18:54
  Michael Torma: Oh, the Starhenge! Yeah!
• 18:57
  Tad Eggleston: And I just saw your face light up, so you and I are the two.
• 19:01
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that red… that red star in jail.
• 19:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah, well, Lynch…
• 19:06
  Tad Eggleston: Which, I mean, I know we're not quite the two, because I was so frustrated at sales that one of… and I even… Liam was… was pleased that I did this. I sent him pictures. I…
• 19:18
  Tad Eggleston: BOT!
• 19:20
  Tad Eggleston: At my local comic shop.
• 19:23
  Tad Eggleston: like… I paid for, for the cost.
• 19:28
  Tad Eggleston: on, I think…
• 19:30
  Tad Eggleston: 5 copies of each, of issues 1 through 3, to bundle and say… sell at the price of
• 19:38
  Tad Eggleston: One issue, so it was 3 for 1.
• 19:41
  Michael Torma: Oh, and…
• 19:42
  Tad Eggleston: And he didn't lose any money.
• 19:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 19:46
  Tad Eggleston: And we put… and my wife made up the thing that says, compliments of 22 panels, you know.
• 19:52
  Tad Eggleston: Read 3 issues, subscribe.
• 19:55
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! That's awesome!
• 19:57
  Tad Eggleston: That's how much I loved that book, and I wanted to drive sales in any way I possibly could.
• 20:05
  Michael Torma: Well, that's… you gotta… you have to do something different, you know?
• 20:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 20:09
  Michael Torma: there's so much… there's so much noise, this, like, these days on everything, that it's like, how do you… we've gone from this, like, kind of mono culture, and where it's like, oh, you put out an article and, like, everybody sees it, now…
• 20:26
  Michael Torma: A lot of these hobbies have become these, like, silos, where people are… you know, they're sharing with people inside their own, like, little niches, but at the same time, it's like…
• 20:37
  Michael Torma: you can't.
• 20:39
  Tad Eggleston: It's… let's face it, it's never been easy, easy to sell a comic that wasn't
• 20:44
  Tad Eggleston: Marvel, DC, and really not Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man, or X-Men.
• 20:52
  Michael Torma: Right, I mean…
• 20:53
  Tad Eggleston: Over the last 50 years, there have been 4 titles that sell consistently no matter what, and everything else is trying to take whatever part of the market share they can get in the medium that is more overlooked than any other medium.
• 21:10
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I'd agree. Name?
• 21:12
  Tad Eggleston: Name a medium other than comics where people say, I don't like this medium.
• 21:20
  Michael Torma: I… the only… the first thing that came.
• 21:22
  Tad Eggleston: I don't like moving pictures. I don't like the written word.
• 21:27
  Tad Eggleston: Nobody ever says that!
• 21:29
  Michael Torma: Nobody says that! I… the first thing that came to mind was, Broadway. But, like, you know, people… But even then?
• 21:37
  Tad Eggleston: not many people will say, I don't like theater, blanket across the board.
• 21:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yep, yep.
• 21:45
  Tad Eggleston: They might say, I don't like musicals.
• 21:47
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Tad Eggleston: They might say, I don't like comedies.
• 21:52
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 21:53
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, I get somebody who says, I don't like superheroes.
• 21:57
  Michael Torma: Because they at least can read some, you know, some notes.
• 21:59
  Tad Eggleston: Like, I get the person who says, I don't like fiction, I only like to read nonfiction, or I get the person that says, I only like horror movies, or I can't stand romantic comedies. Now, for the record, I am the exact reverse. I don't like horror movies, and I love a good rom-com, but…
• 22:16
  Michael Torma: Oh, right on! Okay, yeah. I… I like being surprised by rom-coms. I love horror movies, I love sci-fi, but…
• 22:24
  Tad Eggleston: I can only do horror and comics.
• 22:27
  Michael Torma: Really?
• 22:28
  Tad Eggleston: And I figured it out. I spent a lot of time, particularly because my son loves horror.
• 22:34
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, there was the time where he was just always trying to get me to watch or read something that I really.
• 22:41
  Michael Torma: And it's like.
• 22:42
  Tad Eggleston: should read.
• 22:43
  Michael Torma: But I cannot be…
• 22:44
  Tad Eggleston: So, he was actually, I think, nail-biter. I had a lot of.
• 22:47
  Michael Torma: the customers that like.
• 22:48
  Tad Eggleston: liked Nailbiter, and I'm like, okay, this is a horror comic, I'm gonna give it a try, because maybe… and I figured it out.
• 22:56
  Tad Eggleston: In a horror movie?
• 22:58
  Tad Eggleston: The director and editor decide how much time I spend with the parts that I don't want to spend any time with.
• 23:04
  Tad Eggleston: In a horror book?
• 23:07
  Tad Eggleston: the writer decides how much time I spend with the parts that I don't want to spend any time with.
• 23:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 23:13
  Tad Eggleston: In a comic, I go, oh, guts all over the place, flip.
• 23:17
  Michael Torma: I decide how much…
• 23:20
  Tad Eggleston: time I spend with the parts.
• 23:23
  Michael Torma: You have that control, it's not a… what is it?
• 23:26
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, all information I need has been gotten!
• 23:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that's all I need, guts.
• 23:32
  Tad Eggleston: I don't have to fast-forward, I don't have to skim, I just need to turn the page.
• 23:36
  Michael Torma: Well, it's… it's like, oh gosh. It's like going to, like, a haunted house, right? And…
• 23:43
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I hate honey.
• 23:44
  Michael Torma: I love haunted houses. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:47
  Tad Eggleston: Me too!
• 23:47
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, but you go, and the scare actors, you know, they stay with you, and they'll be like, and you can get scared, and they'll still, like, creep on you. Like, you… you don't have that, control over what, like, what happens to you, and I… I never thought of it like that, but yeah, maybe that's why.
• 24:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Michael Torma: Yeah, but I… I don't know. You give me… I consume just about every single kind of comic.
• 24:12
  Michael Torma: I don't really have… capes and cows are still my bread and butter, but there's… I read everything. Horror.
• 24:20
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Michael Torma: No.
• 24:21
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I, I, I… I've become really picky about my capes and cowls.
• 24:27
  Michael Torma: Oh yeah? Anything good recently that you've really liked?
• 24:30
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you know how much I love Tom King.
• 24:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean… I'm still reading…
• 24:37
  Tad Eggleston: But honestly, the best superhero book right now is Absolute Martian Manhunter.
• 24:42
  Michael Torma: Yes.
• 24:43
  Tad Eggleston: Hands down.
• 24:44
  Michael Torma: So good.
• 24:46
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like crazy, because it's the second best Dennis Kemp book.
• 24:51
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Michael Torma: And the Ultimates is pretty good, too! Yeah! Ultimates is really, really good. Like, I've been picking up, Ultimates, I've been picking up, Absolute Martian Manhunter, and it's…
• 25:07
  Tad Eggleston: Martian Manhunter is must-read. Daredevil is the character I can never…
• 25:13
  Tad Eggleston: not yet, and I'm looking forward to Stephanie Phillips'.
• 25:17
  Michael Torma: That'll be good.
• 25:17
  Tad Eggleston: I love Stephanie's work. Endeavor right now is amazing.
• 25:21
  Michael Torma: I need to get caught up on.
• 25:24
  Tad Eggleston: That's her just…
• 25:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah, Endeavor is really good. I… I need to read more Distillery. I read.
• 25:31
  Tad Eggleston: They have…
• 25:31
  Michael Torma: and SOMA.
• 25:32
  Tad Eggleston: haven't missed yet.
• 25:34
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, their stuff has been solid.
• 25:36
  Tad Eggleston: Valery and Bad Idea.
• 25:39
  Tad Eggleston: I've just, like… You know, yeah.
• 25:45
  Michael Torma: I've been reading Hulk. Hulk's been really good.
• 25:48
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't been reading Hulk right now. Yeah, but I've heard enough things that I imagine I'll read trades at some point. That's really how I do a lot of superhero stuff now, is, like, if I'm still hearing about it, a year later, I'll go pick up the trade.
• 26:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I'll read it all.
• 26:06
  Tad Eggleston: Or… or I maintain both DC Universe and Marvel Unlimited subscriptions.
• 26:13
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so it's like, oh, everybody's been talking about this, let me go binge some of it.
• 26:17
  Michael Torma: Yeah, let me go read some of this Hawkeye or whatever.
• 26:20
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I am loving… Kelly Thompson and Hayden Sherman on…
• 26:26
  Michael Torma: Absolutely.
• 26:28
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's so weird to me that as much as I love Tom King's Wonder Woman, I don't know if it's my favorite Wonder Woman right now. It depends on how much Lizzie is in the book.
• 26:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah. It's… I mean, Tom… Tom King fucking adore Lizzie? Yeah! Lizzie is so good! I… no, Tom King's Wonder Woman book is amazing, but it just happened to… it just happened to happen at the same time as Absolute Wonder Woman, and that book is… that feels like…
• 26:55
  Michael Torma: something pulled straight from the ether of the universe, you know? Like…
• 26:59
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I just, I mean… and that's… there… there are a number of writers that I will read
• 27:07
  Tad Eggleston: anything they do.
• 27:09
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Tad Eggleston: And Kelly's one of them.
• 27:13
  Tad Eggleston: There's another class of writers who I'll read anything they do except their superhero stuff.
• 27:19
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 27:20
  Tad Eggleston: And it's not even that I don't think their superhero stuff will be good, it's that, like.
• 27:25
  Tad Eggleston: I read 30 to 50 comics a week, plus.
• 27:28
  Michael Torma: Ew.
• 27:28
  Tad Eggleston: Plus old trade paperbacks and whatnot, you know, I gotta cut someone.
• 27:33
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I… I'm in my basement right now, and…
• 27:37
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I could see!
• 27:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that's… those are only a few shelves, you can't even see, like, the other ones over here.
• 27:43
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 27:44
  Michael Torma: The omnibus is right over here, like.
• 27:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:47
  Michael Torma: Plus, I have a waterfall rack of all, like, the Oni stuff, like, it's… yeah.
• 27:53
  Michael Torma: Oh yeah, it's… it's nuts. It's nuts.
• 27:55
  Tad Eggleston: This is my bedroom, I…
• 27:57
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Tad Eggleston: Or in other rooms.
• 28:00
  Michael Torma: It's, hey, it's, it's, it's a collection.
• 28:02
  Tad Eggleston: And never mind the short and long boxes.
• 28:04
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 28:05
  Tad Eggleston: Those are just collections. Collections and OGNs.
• 28:10
  Michael Torma: Wow! Okay.
• 28:12
  Tad Eggleston: Most of those are actually not even collections, most of those are just OGNs.
• 28:18
  Michael Torma: Which is my other problem, is like…
• 28:21
  Tad Eggleston: I really love long form.
• 28:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 28:25
  Michael Torma: Rice.
• 28:25
  Tad Eggleston: So, so it's like, if you're trying to find time… it's like, oh, I've got… I've got this… this…
• 28:32
  Tad Eggleston: 2-inch stack of comics this week.
• 28:35
  Tad Eggleston: And a thousand pages of new graphic novels that came in.
• 28:40
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Tad Eggleston: And…
• 28:43
  Tad Eggleston: Tucker from Phanographics just sent me 10 PDFs of things that won't come out for 3 or 4 months, but fuck, they didn't.
• 28:50
  Michael Torma: Yeah, but they look awesome, yeah.
• 28:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right!
• 28:53
  Michael Torma: That's great, though.
• 28:55
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, very first world problems.
• 28:59
  Michael Torma: Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good problems to have.
• 29:01
  Tad Eggleston: how even when I love somebody like Jeff Lemire, I've read, like, the first issue of Absolute Flash.
• 29:08
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 29:09
  Tad Eggleston: That's all I've read, because…
• 29:11
  Tad Eggleston: I just haven't had time. And once you're 2 or 3 issues behind, it's like…
• 29:17
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I'll binge it sometime.
• 29:19
  Michael Torma: I'll wait for the trade, or whatever.
• 29:20
  Tad Eggleston: I'll binge it sometime.
• 29:22
  Michael Torma: Well, it's funny you bring that up, because I think a lot of people find themselves going to that, like.
• 29:28
  Michael Torma: you know, that route when it comes to reading comics, right? Like, people… and you can speak to this, but I think people have maybe 2 or 3 series a month that they really, really like, and get in, like, single issues, and then you'll get, like.
• 29:44
  Michael Torma: you know, they might have 5 or 6 that are like, okay, these are ones that I just read for a while, I'll keep reading them. And then I've noticed more and more people… actually, in the last, like, few months, more and more people have been kind of bouncing back to singles, but
• 29:57
  Michael Torma: I think it follows both…
• 29:59
  Tad Eggleston: ways.
• 29:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 29:59
  Tad Eggleston: The most successful stores.
• 30:02
  Tad Eggleston: Make certain they cater to both.
• 30:04
  Michael Torma: Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. A supermarket isn't gonna just have just vegetables, they have vegetables and meat and fruit, you know? Right.
• 30:11
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it drives me up the wall when I'm at the stores that it's, like, their graphic novel and collection section is…
• 30:21
  Tad Eggleston: week, because I'm sitting there going, if you've got to have something that's weak, shouldn't it be the monthlies that have a much shorter shelf life?
• 30:30
  Michael Torma: Well, I mean, so, it really depends on each shop, like, that's… so my job, I talk to comic book shops all day, and all week, and, like.
• 30:40
  Michael Torma: Try to…
• 30:41
  Tad Eggleston: We were gonna get to that.
• 30:42
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah, it's… it's fun.
• 30:44
  Tad Eggleston: That was the other reason. I, I, like, we try to talk to everybody. I've talked to editors, I've talked to… we've had 5 different letterers on 22 panels. I've never had a sales manager, so… Oh, wow.
• 30:55
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Tad Eggleston: Torma!
• 30:56
  Michael Torma: Poor mom!
• 30:57
  Tad Eggleston: What, what, what do, what do sales managers for, for, for presses… For, for, for comment.
• 31:03
  Michael Torma: For only presses due.
• 31:04
  Tad Eggleston: us.
• 31:05
  Michael Torma: Well, so, it's great because every single sales manager that I've talked to in comics has a different approach.
• 31:13
  Michael Torma: And a different way of, like.
• 31:15
  Michael Torma: communicating what they do and their responsibilities. Most of what I do, and at ONI, I'm thankful that we have somebody dedicated to the book market, which handles the libraries and the ALA and stuff, and then someone who handles more of the direct market, and that's me. I do more of the direct market sales.
• 31:33
  Michael Torma: I'll, you know.
• 31:35
  Michael Torma: talk to comic book shops, I send out emails, I'll visit shops, try to get them comps and things like that, but really, most of my time is talking to comic book shops, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't, seeing what…
• 31:51
  Michael Torma: Seeing what, like, titles are doing well for them, what traffic is like, and kind of, like, coordinating all that into efforts and trying to…
• 31:59
  Michael Torma: you know, sell more Oni stuff, but at the same time, get more people reading comic books.
• 32:04
  Michael Torma: So I… I talk to shops where I'm like, hey, have you tried Oni? And people are like, we love Oni! And I've talked to shops that say, I can't carry a single Oni book.
• 32:14
  Michael Torma: There are some shops out there that…
• 32:16
  Tad Eggleston: Which, which, I mean, anybody who thinks they can't
• 32:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm sorry, anybody who thinks they can't carry a single Oni book, or really a single book from any publisher with
• 32:29
  Tad Eggleston: that isn't… single genre.
• 32:35
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Tad Eggleston: Hasn't looked through the catalog carefully enough.
• 32:40
  Michael Torma: Well, I… and I… if I could get into some of those shops, I… I would try, you know, to add the Torma Magic to it, but I've talked to some shops, and they'll say, like, oh yeah, we just do just back issues, or we don't really do too many graphic novels.
• 32:56
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 32:56
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, what I will say, and I also strongly believe this, comics are a niche enough market that
• 33:06
  Tad Eggleston: If you can't hand-sell it, You shouldn't buy it unless you already know who's… Buying it from you.
• 33:13
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 33:14
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly if you're a smaller store, which almost all of them are.
• 33:20
  Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, if literally you don't like anything from the Oni catalog, then maybe you shouldn't, but I don't know how you could go… just… just flipping through here right now, and it's like…
• 33:34
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, aside from famous things like Scott Pilgrim, and The Sixth Gun, and Sheetz, and Rick and Morty, like, if none of those work for you, and you can't do add-a-gun
• 33:51
  Tad Eggleston: you know.
• 33:52
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 33:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 33:53
  Michael Torma: Like, I…
• 33:53
  Tad Eggleston: Destroyer of Gods, you can't… you can't do any of the EC books. Didn't you guys do… do,
• 34:02
  Tad Eggleston: You guys did Meat Eaters, didn't you?
• 34:04
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 34:05
  Tad Eggleston: Larry and Bush.
• 34:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah, we did.
• 34:06
  Tad Eggleston: That was my number 2 book of the year.
• 34:08
  Michael Torma: Oh, wow, that's amazing, I love.
• 34:10
  Tad Eggleston: I love marriage.
• 34:10
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Tad Eggleston: And that's her masterpiece so far. I say so far because it seems like everything she does is a step up.
• 34:18
  Michael Torma: Meredith, was amazing at… what is it, Meredith? Meredith was at, ALA last year. I got a chance to talk to…
• 34:25
  Tad Eggleston: I believe that.
• 34:25
  Michael Torma: And yeah, they were great,
• 34:29
  Michael Torma: I… I love meteors. It reminds me of, like, Santa Clarita Diet. It's such a good book, and I think it did… I think people dug it, too. There's a lot of really, really good…
• 34:40
  Michael Torma: talent and work coming out of Oni, and I… you're preaching to the choir, Tad, where I'm like, if I can't find you an Oni book that works in your shop, then, you know, I gotta be talking to, like, a fish market or something. I mean, heck, I've gotten… I've gotten EC books in a.
• 34:55
  Tad Eggleston: Or the wealth, I mean, to be fair.
• 34:59
  Tad Eggleston: I have walked into a shop and heard Alex Jones on the radio.
• 35:03
  Michael Torma: Okay. Yeah.
• 35:05
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know if there are any Oni books that would sell at that shop.
• 35:09
  Michael Torma: Probably… I'm surprised that…
• 35:10
  Tad Eggleston: ANY books sell at that shop.
• 35:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I… I would…
• 35:14
  Tad Eggleston: And I did wind up getting a really good deal on Love & Rockets, because they didn't realize they had them, and almost wanted to get rid of them.
• 35:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Which, I mean, their loss, my gain. Right? Yeah. Added to the collection.
• 35:29
  Tad Eggleston: Oh my god.
• 35:29
  Michael Torma: I don't know what this stuff is.
• 35:30
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, alright.
• 35:33
  Michael Torma: Let me… Let me just…
• 35:34
  Tad Eggleston: Take it off your hand.
• 35:35
  Michael Torma: Let me get that for ya. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, and I, you know, it's… it's a shame when you come across a shop like that, like, but yeah, I… I try to go into every conversation, every talk, and see, like, okay, you…
• 35:49
  Michael Torma: EC's not working for you, but Adventure Time is, so have you tried Agent Cupcake? Have you tried, you know, Dracula's Brunch Club? Like, there's a book for everybody, and I staunchly believe that there's a book out there that everybody and anybody can and will enjoy, especially from OnePress.
• 36:07
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's definitely one of the more eclectic presses.
• 36:11
  Michael Torma: It very much is.
• 36:13
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly since it rose from the ashes, because, I mean, not long before you got hired, Oni was all but dead, and that's one of the reasons that it's been fun to watch over the last few years, is that, like, I mean.
• 36:27
  Tad Eggleston: I know people who still aren't ready to go back to working for ONI just because of old experiences.
• 36:33
  Michael Torma: Yeah. And I want to make it clear that, like, I'm not saying that working for Oni is a bad thing now, because everybody I know who's worked for them…
• 36:41
  Tad Eggleston: In this new era, we'll call it the Hunter era, that's probably.
• 36:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Tad Eggleston: best way to put it right now. That's what I call it. Has… has had only good things to say about the experience, but… but, like…
• 36:56
  Tad Eggleston: They went through rough times, so to be able to come out of that swinging…
• 37:03
  Tad Eggleston: And on so many different…
• 37:05
  Tad Eggleston: angles, and I know this isn't, like, necessarily your side of the business, but it's just really impressive to watch, you know?
• 37:13
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 37:14
  Tad Eggleston: Cause most of the time, you see… Rebuilds have to be through…
• 37:21
  Tad Eggleston: Like, a genre, rather than, you know, when, when…
• 37:25
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, Boom never quite went into the ashes the way
• 37:29
  Tad Eggleston: Oni did, but it also was never as big as Oni was before it finally got big. But, like, when they kind of rebuilt, they had to rebuild through Boombox. Nobody cared about the rest of their titles until they put out a solid slew of really good…
• 37:48
  Michael Torma: you know, middle grade and YA titles, and then people went, oh, well, maybe we should pay attention to this again. Maybe Boom has some, good stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, I…
• 37:57
  Michael Torma: I think, yeah, I…
• 37:59
  Tad Eggleston: I can'.
• 37:59
  Michael Torma: I can't speak too much to, like, what happened before, because I wasn't here. But…
• 38:04
  Tad Eggleston: You were selling comics, so you… I was. So you saw some on that side. Oh, yeah. I mean, you didn't see the business side, and, like, I don't know all of the business side, and most of the business side that was bad was, like.
• 38:16
  Tad Eggleston: way above the comic level. Everybody knows about what happens when the corporate people start
• 38:24
  Tad Eggleston: Corporating. Just put it that way.
• 38:28
  Michael Torma: corporating. Corporate corporates, corporate corporations, yeah. No, I… I… everybody, everybody currently at Oni loves to make comics and loves what they do. Like, we have a great team, I…
• 38:42
  Michael Torma: I look forward… unironically, I look forward to, like, the company retreat, every year, because I get to see all these people that I consider my friends to.
• 38:51
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I mean…
• 38:52
  Tad Eggleston: It's comics, and you don't have a massive corporate overlord, so I'm assuming it's like the Motel 6 in Scranton?
• 39:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 39:01
  Michael Torma: That's good!
• 39:02
  Tad Eggleston: But with comic people, that's pretty cool.
• 39:05
  Michael Torma: Right, yeah, no, no, no, it's… it's nice! I… I don't know. It's… it's great because it's just like a mini con, right? But it's a mini con of people who know inside jokes. The terrible comics joke. No, no, it's good! It's good. I love it, and I'm here for it.
• 39:20
  Michael Torma: But yeah, no.
• 39:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain they took you somewhere at least a little bit nicer than a Motel 6.
• 39:25
  Michael Torma: Oh, no.
• 39:25
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe it was… maybe it was the Residence Inn in Scranton.
• 39:28
  Michael Torma: It was, it was a beautiful Hilton. No, no, we, we go to a gorgeous, a gorgeous place. What is it?
• 39:37
  Michael Torma: Oh, God, where is it? What is it called? I was just looking at it, or they sent me an email. It's,
• 39:43
  Michael Torma: I can't remember.
• 39:44
  Tad Eggleston: Coming up.
• 39:45
  Michael Torma: No, the retreat's not coming up,
• 39:47
  Michael Torma: I just figured things out. There he is.
• 39:50
  Tad Eggleston: I figure they got a, they were gonna, they were gonna do it tomorrow because they got a discount rate because of the winter storm.
• 39:58
  Michael Torma: Because of this storm, that's a good idea. No, it's a… Hey, we're moving up the rate! We got a good…
• 40:04
  Tad Eggleston: We gotta go, we gotta, we gotta get, yeah, great rate.
• 40:09
  Michael Torma: No, it was, Skamania Lodge, up in… I think it's, like, in Washington? So it's near Portland. Okay. Or it's, like, I don't know, I fly into Portland, and it's, like, an hour drive, it's… it's really nice.
• 40:20
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that sounds beautiful.
• 40:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's awesome.
• 40:22
  Tad Eggleston: And again, I'm just, you know, should your bosses be listening? This is just my weird humor at the end of a long school week.
• 40:32
  Michael Torma: Right? Yeah.
• 40:33
  Tad Eggleston: I love Oni Press. I love that you… you are… yeah, I have it pulled up right… well, I have the original pulled up on my screen right now, but I love that… that we've got the…
• 40:45
  Tad Eggleston: annotated genderqueer coming out this year?
• 40:49
  Michael Torma: Yup, yup, yep.
• 40:50
  Tad Eggleston: That's gonna I love that Oni stood behind that book.
• 40:54
  Michael Torma: Of course! Yay!
• 40:55
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah, but…
• 40:57
  Michael Torma: Well, yeah.
• 40:57
  Tad Eggleston: Say, of course.
• 40:59
  Michael Torma: Say, of course, but…
• 41:01
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, but when you're the, the center of… Book banning.
• 41:08
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 41:09
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's not… it's not a book that was also banned.
• 41:12
  Michael Torma: No.
• 41:13
  Tad Eggleston: It was the one that freaking, what, John Kennedy from Louisiana was reading from on the floor of the Senate.
• 41:21
  Michael Torma: It's… it's crazy. Which…
• 41:22
  Tad Eggleston: Which, by the way, I so wish that somebody had put the images up for that.
• 41:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 41:28
  Tad Eggleston: The art he was reading, the images were her looking at her phone.
• 41:33
  Michael Torma: Yeah. No, it's… I… It's like…
• 41:36
  Tad Eggleston: It's like, it becomes so much less dirty when you realize that she's just texting.
• 41:43
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 41:44
  Michael Torma: But that's not what, you know, they… they want to have this message about, like, you know, blah blah blah…
• 41:49
  Tad Eggleston: We can't show this, because it's a comic, and that's why it's so dirty. If it sounds dirty, and it's a comic, just imagine how dirty it is. It's like, how about we not imagine? How about we.
• 42:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 42:01
  Tad Eggleston: the pages.
• 42:02
  Michael Torma: Show us what you're talking about, like…
• 42:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. I mean, I mean, you're,
• 42:13
  Tad Eggleston: Comrade showed actual porn in a… in a… in a…
• 42:21
  Tad Eggleston: Marjorie Taylor Greene and the Hunter Biden…
• 42:24
  Michael Torma: Shut! Shut!
• 42:26
  Tad Eggleston: actual porn! That's right. The other day, so I mean…
• 42:31
  Michael Torma: Come on now! Yeah, no, it's very…
• 42:34
  Tad Eggleston: You shouldn't be able to show a phone screen!
• 42:37
  Michael Torma: Right? You should be able to just do that, but no, it's… no, it's… I say, of course because, of course, it's, it's an.
• 42:47
  Tad Eggleston: Or an androgynous character holding a fistful of grass.
• 42:50
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 42:51
  Michael Torma: Right? And that's what causes an uproar, that's what people get upset about, like, yeah, makes no sense.
• 42:58
  Tad Eggleston: It's… Whoa.
• 42:59
  Tad Eggleston: It's just so, oh, I hate it when the words don't come to me right. It's so…
• 43:07
  Michael Torma: Exhausting.
• 43:08
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yes, it's definitely exhausting, but it's also… Hypocritical.
• 43:14
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a whole other…
• 43:17
  Tad Eggleston: Hypocritical is not even the word I'm looking for. It's disingenuous.
• 43:21
  Michael Torma: So disingenuous. Disingenuous. Yeah, it's a policy.
• 43:24
  Tad Eggleston: You know, it's either they literally don't know what they're talking about, or they know what they're talking about.
• 43:32
  Tad Eggleston: But they don't want you to know what they're talking about.
• 43:36
  Michael Torma: It's a politician, man. Yeah.
• 43:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, not all of them.
• 43:40
  Michael Torma: I… yeah.
• 43:41
  Tad Eggleston: We need to… and also, like…
• 43:44
  Tad Eggleston: It's not required to be that way.
• 43:47
  Michael Torma: No.
• 43:49
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'm not trying to chastise you, but that's become one of my things. It's like, if we look at poli… if we sit there and just go, oh, that's politicians, well, then we'll keep having politicians like that.
• 44:01
  Tad Eggleston: If that's the politician, don't vote for them.
• 44:04
  Michael Torma: For sure.
• 44:05
  Tad Eggleston: somebody else. Right? If it turns out that that other person is also like that, don't vote for them again.
• 44:11
  Michael Torma: Vote for somebody else. Keep doing it until you get.
• 44:15
  Tad Eggleston: Right! Voting is important, yeah, yeah.
• 44:18
  Michael Torma: Remember that, kids, voting is very important.
• 44:21
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like that's an Oni book too, is it? No.
• 44:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right.
• 44:26
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's first, second that has the world citizen line.
• 44:29
  Michael Torma: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:31
  Tad Eggleston: Which I will plug, even though this is an Oni show.
• 44:34
  Michael Torma: No, plug good content.
• 44:35
  Tad Eggleston: World Citizen Comics?
• 44:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah, this is a…
• 44:38
  Tad Eggleston: be in every school.
• 44:39
  Michael Torma: This is a Michael Torma episode, this is not just an Oni episode, so good comics, I mean…
• 44:44
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, I just, I didn't know what your boss would think. I wanted to make it clear that that was 22 panels.
• 44:49
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 44:51
  Michael Torma: 22 panels, that was their pitch.
• 44:53
  Tad Eggleston: 22 panels says, go read World Citizen Comics. Learn about how democracy works in other countries, how it could work in this country. Learn about how the Constitution was written, and what its fault lines are.
• 45:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, crazy things!
• 45:07
  Michael Torma: I need to check it out, I haven't seen… I haven't… I haven't read it.
• 45:10
  Tad Eggleston: You haven't read any of the… there are… there's a whole line.
• 45:13
  Michael Torma: Oh!
• 45:14
  Tad Eggleston: citizen comics at, at…
• 45:16
  Tad Eggleston: For a second, here, I'll pull… I'll pull it up and share my screen, because if you… if you don't know this, I…
• 45:23
  Michael Torma: Definitely need to… No, no, I…
• 45:26
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 45:27
  Michael Torma: I've seen this. I've read What Unites Us, I've read…
• 45:30
  Tad Eggleston: What unites us?
• 45:31
  Michael Torma: This is a baby.
• 45:32
  Tad Eggleston: Amazing.
• 45:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 45:33
  Tad Eggleston: Why the people?
• 45:35
  Michael Torma: I haven't read Why the People?
• 45:37
  Tad Eggleston: That, that's essentially, it's, it's a, it's a document, or it's a, it's a…
• 45:42
  Tad Eggleston: It's the case for democracy. It's the case for why democracy is a good form of government. Yeah. As we have trouble with that sometimes.
• 45:52
  Michael Torma: Damn.
• 45:53
  Tad Eggleston: RE Constitutions actually looks at constitutions from other countries? I mean.
• 45:59
  Tad Eggleston: our Constitution is a great document, but here's the thing, like…
• 46:04
  Tad Eggleston: A, it's amendable for a reason.
• 46:07
  Tad Eggleston: B, what other thing
• 46:10
  Tad Eggleston: that was created 200 years ago was never improved on. You know what other countries had?
• 46:17
  Tad Eggleston: As an advantage that we didn't have?
• 46:21
  Tad Eggleston: When they were writing their constitutions?
• 46:24
  Michael Torma: Years?
• 46:25
  Tad Eggleston: We had our Constitution to look at.
• 46:27
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, okay.
• 46:29
  Tad Eggleston: And our strengths and weaknesses to look at, and they could go, hey, that thing they did? That was great. This thing over here? Maybe we should tweak it a little bit.
• 46:39
  Michael Torma: Yeah! It's like, what is it? It's like us doing the, the compact editions, you know?
• 46:44
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 46:45
  Michael Torma: Like, seeing what Marvel and DC did for Compact Editions, and then going, oh, you know what, the DC ones seem to be working a little better, you know?
• 46:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right. You know, fault lines in the Constitution is actually… it's a history of the Constitution, and specifically, like.
• 47:01
  Tad Eggleston: The things… and it's a… it's…
• 47:04
  Tad Eggleston: adapted… you know, some of them are adapted from non-comic books, but of the ones that I've read, both the comic and the non-comic, like this one, I'll take the comic.
• 47:15
  Tad Eggleston: R.
• 47:16
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 47:17
  Tad Eggleston: But, well, I mean, not every comics adaptation is better.
• 47:20
  Michael Torma: Well, no. But the ones that try to be are.
• 47:23
  Michael Torma: I say, of course, because my brain works better with a comic book than it does with…
• 47:27
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.
• 47:27
  Michael Torma: Overall.
• 47:28
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 47:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:29
  Tad Eggleston: But, if you don't actually make certain that you get the information, or you cut it down or whatnot, my point is, they don't cut it down, and my brain works better as a comic.
• 47:41
  Michael Torma: Perfect.
• 47:42
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, like, it, it, like…
• 47:46
  Tad Eggleston: Everybody forgets that the 13 colonies?
• 47:51
  Tad Eggleston: We're gonna call them a loose confederation. I mean… Right. I mean, let's just look at the basics. Six of them liked slaves. Yeah.
• 48:00
  Tad Eggleston: Four of them…
• 48:02
  Tad Eggleston: didn't own slaves, but didn't really have a problem with slaves. And really, only 3 of them said.
• 48:09
  Michael Torma: We pulled…
• 48:10
  Tad Eggleston: You are not to do the slave thing!
• 48:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah, what are we doing here, guys?
• 48:14
  Tad Eggleston: So there are massive parts of the Constitution that are, like, Some form of compromise…
• 48:23
  Tad Eggleston: Because they needed to get something on paper before the country fell apart.
• 48:28
  Michael Torma: Right. Yeah, they had to… they had to get some sort of foundation and some sort of base before they.
• 48:33
  Tad Eggleston: There are.
• 48:33
  Michael Torma: Argued and fought about, yeah.
• 48:35
  Tad Eggleston: There are huge parts of the Constitution that are essentially, Congress will decide.
• 48:42
  Tad Eggleston: Unfortunately, some of those things that Congress was supposed to decide 250 years ago?
• 48:51
  Tad Eggleston: They still haven't decided.
• 48:54
  Michael Torma: God, yeah.
• 48:57
  Tad Eggleston: Congress was supposed to define, like, the Supreme Court.
• 49:03
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:04
  Tad Eggleston: They wound up letting the Supreme Court define itself.
• 49:08
  Michael Torma: Perfect. They still…
• 49:09
  Tad Eggleston: constitutionally, could define. Like, all it takes is an act of Congress, and we could get rid of…
• 49:16
  Tad Eggleston: The shadow docket.
• 49:18
  Michael Torma: Oh, wow. Okay.
• 49:20
  Tad Eggleston: Because Congress has the right to define the courts.
• 49:25
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 49:27
  Michael Torma: Well, let's do it! Let's get it all… let's get it going!
• 49:30
  Tad Eggleston: Don't get me wrong, there are certain things that we, like, require a…
• 49:34
  Tad Eggleston: constitutional amendment for or whatnot, but, like, the number of things that could still be done inside of our Constitution that don't get done because there's just never been the political willpower, because, unfortunately.
• 49:48
  Tad Eggleston: We're a multinational state, as, as my…
• 49:52
  Tad Eggleston: the history teacher that's teaching the student that I'm working with would say, because, like, states are the lines and the governments, and nations are groups that have
• 50:04
  Tad Eggleston: Shared language and custom and whatnot.
• 50:06
  Michael Torma: So we're a multinational state, and those are the hard ones to, like, govern, because…
• 50:12
  Tad Eggleston: We really do have different sets of values.
• 50:14
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 50:14
  Tad Eggleston: groups of people, and we… Always have.
• 50:19
  Michael Torma: Well, it's, it's like, it's like trying to get a bunch of your friends together to, decide on a place to eat, you know? Everybody's gonna have their own diets and their own, concerns, and own, like…
• 50:31
  Michael Torma: I don't know, diets that they need to follow, you know? Right. Yeah.
• 50:37
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 50:37
  Michael Torma: I didn't.
• 50:38
  Tad Eggleston: But yeah…
• 50:38
  Michael Torma: still in there, yeah.
• 50:39
  Tad Eggleston: There's a comic for that.
• 50:41
  Michael Torma: There's a comic for that. You want to know how the government works? There are comics for that.
• 50:45
  Tad Eggleston: For that matter, my good friend Arsakoriak also gave us the Constitution Illustrated, which one day, I feel like we need to do, like, a GoFundMe or something to buy a copy of that for every member of Congress, so that they have no excuse for not having read the Constitution.
• 51:01
  Michael Torma: God, yeah, they…
• 51:03
  Tad Eggleston: It'll fit in their suit pocket.
• 51:05
  Michael Torma: Right. It'd have to be large print, though, for most of the…
• 51:08
  Tad Eggleston: Maybe if we get enough money from the GoFundMe, we'll buy them a copy of the Constitution Illustrated, and a magnifying glass.
• 51:19
  Michael Torma: a really nice magnifying glass, yeah. Because they don't have enough money to buy it themselves.
• 51:24
  Tad Eggleston: Have you seen Constitution Illustrated?
• 51:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah! I've seen Constitution, yeah. It's… I mean, well, that'.
• 51:31
  Tad Eggleston: Bob's work is so cool.
• 51:33
  Michael Torma: that's the beauty of, this age of comics that we live in. I know, like, it's, you know, everything after the Bronze Age is considered just, like, the modern age or whatever, but.
• 51:45
  Tad Eggleston: Chris Condon and I dubbed it the Platinum Age.
• 51:48
  Michael Torma: Platinum Age, because…
• 51:51
  Tad Eggleston: We're in the age of comics.
• 51:53
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 51:54
  Tad Eggleston: where… There are so many good books that nobody can actually read them all.
• 52:02
  Michael Torma: Yep.
• 52:04
  Michael Torma: Well, you have… you have to think, like, there's so much talent and so many people who grew up in this medium and other mediums that now are getting into comics as a…
• 52:16
  Michael Torma: Well, as… they're starting to…
• 52:18
  Michael Torma: they're starting to see comics as a more respected, like, medium, right? And it's not just, capes and cows, and I think for the last, like.
• 52:27
  Michael Torma: 20 years, we've seen a lot of that kind of progress past your… just your Batmans and your… your Spider-Mans and stuff.
• 52:33
  Tad Eggleston: Are you seeing bigger and bigger sections in actual bookstores?
• 52:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 52:37
  Tad Eggleston: You're occasionally… I… I was…
• 52:40
  Michael Torma: our distribution.
• 52:42
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I was over the moon.
• 52:44
  Tad Eggleston: is so over the moon that I sent pictures to Nate and Andrew.
• 52:49
  Michael Torma: When I was at a Barnes & Noble.
• 52:51
  Tad Eggleston: and found March.
• 52:54
  Tad Eggleston: In the history section.
• 52:58
  Tad Eggleston: Wasn't even…
• 52:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah, not even the graphic novel section.
• 53:01
  Tad Eggleston: It was in the history section. What's more, is it was phased out in the history section.
• 53:08
  Michael Torma: It escaped the scrutiny of counterfeit. It was on display.
• 53:14
  Tad Eggleston: Please read me.
• 53:16
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 53:16
  Tad Eggleston: in the history section, and I just went, this is among the coolest things I've ever seen.
• 53:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Oh yeah, it's… it's… it's the best. It's when you're… when you see a work, like, especially comics or whatever, a graphic novel, somewhere where it's not normally seen, and it has such exposure, it's… it's a good feeling, you know? I think… I think… yeah.
• 53:38
  Tad Eggleston: No, go ahead.
• 53:40
  Michael Torma: I was gonna say, I think everybody in comics, it, like I said, it's a rising tide. A rising tide, you know, raises all ships.
• 53:49
  Michael Torma: And I think when people see comics kind of in that forefront, they… there's a bit of an ownership to that, you know? Like,
• 53:58
  Michael Torma: for years, like, you know, I think in high school, it was, like, me and, like, two other dudes who liked, Western comics, and now it's great that I can talk to most people and be like, oh yeah, the Infinity Gauntlet is great, and people know what I'm talking about, you know? Like…
• 54:16
  Tad Eggleston: Did you mean Western comics, like cowboy comics, or Western comics, like, non-monga?
• 54:21
  Michael Torma: Oh, like, non-monga. Okay. I mean, I love manga, too, yeah.
• 54:26
  Tad Eggleston: Cause… cause for a second there, I'm like, because we just finished…
• 54:31
  Tad Eggleston: 3 months' worth of talking about Jonah Hex on our pulp Lotter.
• 54:36
  Tad Eggleston: Book Club, and then… I hooked us up with Jimmy Palmiati.
• 54:41
  Tad Eggleston: To talk more Joe to Hex.
• 54:44
  Michael Torma: That's so sick! Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, a good western comic is great. We did that EC Outlaw showdown. It was great. It was phenomenal, yeah. And then,
• 54:53
  Michael Torma: What is it? That Texas Blood, you know? Oh. Chris Condon, like…
• 54:59
  Tad Eggleston: Chris Condon is a dear friend of mine, so you don't have to convince me on that one.
• 55:05
  Michael Torma: There you go, yeah, this stuff is incredible.
• 55:07
  Tad Eggleston: That Texas Blood is only kind of Western. Enfield Gang.
• 55:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:13
  Michael Torma: Enfield Gang is so good.
• 55:16
  Tad Eggleston: And so, and, like, the newsprint?
• 55:21
  Michael Torma: It's perfect. It's… like, I don't know, Western… Westerns always have that sort of piece of Americana, you know? Like, the cowboy, there are always those Western comics. Like, I… anytime I see a Jonah Hex all-star western, I snag it. Even, like, a,
• 55:37
  Michael Torma: you know, kid cult, or two-gun kid from the Marvel side of things. I mean, DC always had better Western characters, but…
• 55:44
  Tad Eggleston: that… that pre… and I had missed it when it came out, but… Yeah. Mark Pratt.
• 55:51
  Tad Eggleston: who… if you like theater at all, and particularly if you know anybody who has a theater, Mark Pratt wrote the four-color trilogy. He wrote… they all debuted in Chicago, but so far haven't been picked up anywhere else. The Mark of Cain?
• 56:06
  Tad Eggleston: Which is about Bilk… or Bob Kane and Bill Finger.
• 56:10
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 56:12
  Tad Eggleston: Seduction of the innocent.
• 56:14
  Michael Torma: Right? Correct.
• 56:15
  Tad Eggleston: Sorry, Innocent of the Seduction is what the name of the play was, which was about Bill Gaines and had Frederick Wertham in, like, a Crypt Keeper-type role for the…
• 56:27
  Michael Torma: Oh, wow.
• 56:27
  Tad Eggleston: thing, and it's got Matt Baker, and…
• 56:30
  Tad Eggleston: And then… and then House of Ideas was a Stan and Jack play. Right. All of them phenomenal. Need to be picked up elsewhere. Available on… on the… the… the river site, and… and wherever good books are sold.
• 56:46
  Tad Eggleston: I highly recommend them. I…
• 56:48
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I wanna see that. That sounds amazing.
• 56:51
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but he, he's, he's part of the Pope Lotter Book Club.
• 56:55
  Tad Eggleston: And, it was Jonah Hex.
• 56:58
  Tad Eggleston: that pulled him back into single-issue comics. So I had… I had missed that… that pre-New 52 run that Jonah… or that Jimmy and Justin Gray did.
• 57:08
  Michael Torma: Oh, it's so good.
• 57:10
  Tad Eggleston: with a slew of artists, you know, Jordan Brene, Fiona Staples did an issue.
• 57:15
  Michael Torma: Darwin Cook.
• 57:15
  Tad Eggleston: Jeff Lemire… Darwin did, I think, 4? Three or four?
• 57:20
  Michael Torma: Including…
• 57:21
  Tad Eggleston: issue 50, which Jimmy told us, and Mark went back and confirmed, issue 50, he kills 50 people.
• 57:29
  Michael Torma: Really? I never even thought that, that's perfect, yeah.
• 57:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, like I said, Mark went back and conf… you know, Jimmy told him, he's like, really? Oh my god. And, like, the next time I talked to him, he was like, I went back and I re-read it, and I counted it.
• 57:42
  Michael Torma: I counted every dude in this position. It's true! Yeah. I love that. Yeah, no.
• 57:47
  Michael Torma: I think, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's…
• 57:50
  Tad Eggleston: The coolest thing, talking about, you know, because I just loved the… I loved…
• 57:59
  Tad Eggleston: The who's who of artists involved.
• 58:03
  Tad Eggleston: and it's such a who's who that initially, I had to… I reached out to my friend Mark Chiarello, because I'm like.
• 58:10
  Tad Eggleston: this feels like a you thing, you know, Wednesday comics, solo, you know.
• 58:16
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 58:16
  Tad Eggleston: He's like, no, that was all Jimmy. I might have introduced him to Jordy Bernay, I can't remember.
• 58:23
  Tad Eggleston: That was all Jimmy. So I'm talking to Jimmy about it, and Jimmy's like, yeah, no, see, here's the thing. Because it was episodic.
• 58:32
  Tad Eggleston: we could go up to, like, a Brian Stelfrys and say, you want to do a Jonah Hex comic? And he goes, sure, what's the deadline? A year? Hell yes!
• 58:42
  Michael Torma: I'll tell you how to do it, I'll do it now! Yeah, yeah.
• 58:44
  Tad Eggleston: You got a year to get it done!
• 58:46
  Tad Eggleston: Absolutely! No problem!
• 58:49
  Michael Torma: No problemo, yeah.
• 58:51
  Tad Eggleston: You know, people are so used to, I need it in 6 weeks, or 8 weeks, or whatever, that, like, you tell them they've got a year to do something cool.
• 59:02
  Michael Torma: They'll really do it cool, yeah. Sky's the limit.
• 59:05
  Tad Eggleston: You know, and he's like, but that's essentially what we had, because we weren't…
• 59:10
  Michael Torma: Doing one artist, and we weren't doing…
• 59:14
  Tad Eggleston: A linear storyline.
• 59:16
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it wasn't, like…
• 59:17
  Tad Eggleston: Series of one-and-dones.
• 59:18
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 59:20
  Michael Torma: And people love that!
• 59:21
  Tad Eggleston: As long as something was ready every month, we were fine.
• 59:26
  Michael Torma: We were great, we were golden, you know?
• 59:28
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't understand why that doesn't happen more often. Just like I, like…
• 59:33
  Michael Torma: It's… it's tricky, it's tricky…
• 59:37
  Tad Eggleston: It's tricky, because talking to comic book shops, a lot of them will tell me, like, oh, hey, we want…
• 59:42
  Michael Torma: we want, like, long form, we want, you know, ongoing, series to keep people coming in and keep readers reading. I love a good one-shot, I think the EC one-shots that we do are really great, the Adventure Time one-shots do really, really well, too. And, I think…
• 1:00:00
  Michael Torma: part of that sort of, like, Netflix model of, like, here's a bunch of episodes, here's everything all in one, like…
• 1:00:06
  Michael Torma: works really well with a one-shot. I think the problem with a one-shot
• 1:00:11
  Michael Torma: is… people have to feel like they're getting their money's worth, right? Especially in these times, like, it just has to feel like it has enough weight.
• 1:00:19
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but, but, but, like, with that old Jonah Hex.
• 1:00:23
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Tad Eggleston: And… and Fraction's doing it with Batman a little bit now. Yeah. It wasn't as much… they weren't… they weren't numbered as one-shots.
• 1:00:31
  Michael Torma: No.
• 1:00:32
  Tad Eggleston: What it was, was every story had a beginning, middle, and end.
• 1:00:36
  Michael Torma: Right. So you didn't have to have read the last 4 issues.
• 1:00:40
  Michael Torma: No?
• 1:00:40
  Tad Eggleston: to be able to read this one. You could go into any of them, yeah. So it was an ongoing title.
• 1:00:48
  Tad Eggleston: And the character built on itself, and occasionally you would have
• 1:00:53
  Tad Eggleston: stuff that referred to, or, or, you know, we'd have part one of a story that was originally just part one, but, like.
• 1:01:02
  Tad Eggleston: 12 issues later, they decide to pick up where that one left off.
• 1:01:06
  Michael Torma: Yeah, they bring back…
• 1:01:08
  Michael Torma: El Diablo, or whoever, or Batlash, right? Like, I was looking at my shelf, to see what I had, and I have the Jonah Hex omnibus they did a few years ago. I say a few years ago, yeah, 2020.
• 1:01:21
  Michael Torma: And then I have most of the… that run that we're talking about in trade, and then a few, like, one-shots, and then I think…
• 1:01:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, apparently it's infuriatingly mostly out of print right now. Yeah. Which is why Jimmy is really, really hoping that the All-Star Western Omnibus that just got released does well, so that maybe he can get it back into print.
• 1:01:44
  Michael Torma: I didn't even realize they just put a new one out.
• 1:01:46
  Tad Eggleston: They put out the All-Star Western, which is essentially the New 52… Jonah Hex.
• 1:01:52
  Michael Torma: Oh…
• 1:01:55
  Tad Eggleston: So it's still Jimmy and Justin, but it's from right after…
• 1:01:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah…
• 1:01:59
  Tad Eggleston: that.
• 1:02:00
  Michael Torma: It's cause that ties into, like… they tied that stuff into Batman, and did the Court of Owls, and that makes sense.
• 1:02:07
  Michael Torma: Yeah, well, hopefully that does, does alright. Let me see… Joe…
• 1:02:11
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, if I had my way, I'd have all comics in print at all times, but…
• 1:02:17
  Tad Eggleston: But apparently, there's something about… profits, and… paper, and…
• 1:02:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that usually ties into it, unfortunately. Because there is… holy crap!
• 1:02:30
  Tad Eggleston: Warehouse space?
• 1:02:33
  Michael Torma: No.
• 1:02:34
  Michael Torma: There's no way that book is that much online. Here, sorry. I'm looking up the, the Jonah Hex…
• 1:02:41
  Michael Torma: Graphic novels now, okay, yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Michael Torma: insane.
• 1:02:44
  Tad Eggleston: Because they're out of print.
• 1:02:46
  Michael Torma: They're out of print, yeah, yeah, but I…
• 1:02:47
  Tad Eggleston: Fantastic.
• 1:02:48
  Michael Torma: In fact, out of print was, like, it was, like, $40 or $30 out of print. They have… there's one dude who has one for $400, yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Tad Eggleston: It all depends on how serious the people who actually want it are.
• 1:02:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  Michael Torma: That's true, yeah.
• 1:03:02
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, and like, it can be weird. We were talking about Love & Rockets earlier.
• 1:03:07
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, the weirdest thing about Love and Rockets is you never see… I mean, other than issue 1, and I think issue 24 that has that… that…
• 1:03:16
  Tad Eggleston: Black and red rock and roll cover.
• 1:03:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:03:19
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:03:20
  Tad Eggleston: None of them are officially that expensive.
• 1:03:24
  Michael Torma: No.
• 1:03:26
  Tad Eggleston: But…
• 1:03:28
  Tad Eggleston: If you find them online, they tend to be really expensive. And if you find them in the wild, they tend to be cheap.
• 1:03:36
  Tad Eggleston: But put in a place in the store where only the right people will find them.
• 1:03:41
  Michael Torma: Right? Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  Michael Torma: And take them to a nice home, and… Right.
• 1:03:48
  Tad Eggleston: No, I mean, this is where I'm gonna give a shout-out to another one of my favorite shops. I was at JHU in Staten Island.
• 1:03:55
  Michael Torma: That's where…
• 1:03:56
  Tad Eggleston: That's where I wound up getting most of the original Love & Rockets graphic novel collections.
• 1:04:02
  Michael Torma: Because I was looking for stuff.
• 1:04:05
  Tad Eggleston: Looking for Love & Rock stuff. It was actually on that tour where I met you.
• 1:04:09
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  Tad Eggleston: 2 or 3 days after I met you, I met JHU, And… I asked if they…
• 1:04:18
  Tad Eggleston: had any more love… you know, I found a handful of things, and I grabbed them all, and I'm like, do you have any? And I can't remember the two owners' names right now, but one of them turned to the other, and he's like, don't we have that box in the back? And they just smiled, and somebody walked… and they walked back there, and they came out, they had a short box.
• 1:04:35
  Tad Eggleston: with, like… 14… different… Love & Rockets collected hardcovers.
• 1:04:44
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, how much? He's like, and they're like, okay, what's the cover price? They knocked 20% off the cover price for me.
• 1:04:52
  Tad Eggleston: Holy crap! And I'm like…
• 1:04:54
  Tad Eggleston: Seriously? He's like, yeah, no, we took these off the floor a long time ago because we were looking for the right home.
• 1:05:01
  Tad Eggleston: And we just decided that we found it.
• 1:05:04
  Michael Torma: We just… it's yours. You got it, right there.
• 1:05:07
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm like.
• 1:05:11
  Michael Torma: I… I love stories like that. I was in a shop here.
• 1:05:15
  Michael Torma: Let me see… can you hear me still?
• 1:05:17
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:05:20
  Michael Torma: Can you hear me? Hello?
• 1:05:21
  Tad Eggleston: I can.
• 1:05:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah, okay.
• 1:05:24
  Michael Torma: Boop, boop, boop. Yeah, I was in a shop, and… let's see…
• 1:05:29
  Michael Torma: I know it's right here… yeah.
• 1:05:36
  Michael Torma: I saw this… Can you hear me now?
• 1:05:40
  Tad Eggleston: I've always been able to hear you, never.
• 1:05:42
  Michael Torma: I'll shake.
• 1:05:44
  Michael Torma: You can hear me? I found this, like, Foreign…
• 1:05:49
  Tad Eggleston: ice.
• 1:05:50
  Michael Torma: Yeah, this Japanese copy of, like, a bunch of Dark Horse comics, so it.
• 1:05:53
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice.
• 1:05:54
  Michael Torma: I'm like…
• 1:05:55
  Michael Torma: I get a kick out of it, it even has, like, the poster in there, but it's Batman vs. Predator.
• 1:06:02
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow.
• 1:06:03
  Michael Torma: Yeah, and so it even has, like.
• 1:06:05
  Tad Eggleston: To pull out? Yeah. It's so rad. And I saw it, oh, that's Army of Darkness, hell yeah.
• 1:06:11
  Michael Torma: But, I saw it in a stack of stuff, and I'm like, oh, what is that? What are you, what are you guys doing with that? And the guy was like, oh, that came in a collection, I don't know, and I was like, I'll… let me know a price, and I'll buy it for you, and I got it for 10 bucks, and I think… Right.
• 1:06:25
  Michael Torma: 10 bucks is, I think it's a killer deal, so I've been.
• 1:06:28
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely, that's a fen… 10 bucks reminds me of… of…
• 1:06:34
  Tad Eggleston: Of another wonderful find, like…
• 1:06:37
  Tad Eggleston: when I was between the ages of 17 and 20,
• 1:06:43
  Tad Eggleston: I tracked down and collected everything that Frank Miller had ever done up until that point.
• 1:06:50
  Michael Torma: Damn, every cover, every… yeah.
• 1:06:53
  Tad Eggleston: Well, you gotta realize that I was 17 in 1997, so…
• 1:06:58
  Tad Eggleston: like, 300 was coming out while I was doing this. So he hadn't done a lot of Ariant covers yet.
• 1:07:05
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, we're talking… we're talking the books that he'd done.
• 1:07:08
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  Tad Eggleston: But the last thing I managed to put my hands on… was… the Marvel graphic novel.
• 1:07:21
  Tad Eggleston: Daredevil Love and War.
• 1:07:23
  Michael Torma: That he wrote, and Bill Sienkiewicz did the art on.
• 1:07:27
  Michael Torma: God, so good.
• 1:07:29
  Tad Eggleston: It is. It's phenomenal. In fact, it's so phenomenal that the copy that I wound up getting is beat to hell, which didn't stop me from having Bill Sienkiewicz sign it.
• 1:07:40
  Tad Eggleston: local museum.
• 1:07:42
  Michael Torma: It's amazing.
• 1:07:43
  Tad Eggleston: Mom.
• 1:07:44
  Michael Torma: I got Frank Miller to sign, anyway.
• 1:07:46
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but… well, I'll get back to that, because if you had Frank Miller signing something, I need to hear that story, because I haven't met Frank.
• 1:07:55
  Tad Eggleston: But so… I… I, I, like, I picked stuff up in Southern California, I… I was at…
• 1:08:05
  Tad Eggleston: the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con, back when I was able to hear about it on the radio, and go, hey, Dad, we were vacationing in Ventura, and I heard about it on the radio, and I said, hey, Dad, can we go down to San Diego on Saturday?
• 1:08:20
  Tad Eggleston: We did, and we bought tickets. There.
• 1:08:23
  Michael Torma: Oh, it's so good. I miss those days.
• 1:08:25
  Tad Eggleston: Kevin Smith was the big guy. Well, what I regret about that is that…
• 1:08:30
  Tad Eggleston: I thought Artist Alley was only for artists.
• 1:08:38
  Tad Eggleston: It was the first con I'd ever been to.
• 1:08:41
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  Tad Eggleston: it was like, you have to prove that you're a special guy to go over there. Because it wasn't as busy as all the booths and stuff.
• 1:08:49
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:08:51
  Michael Torma: So you're like, oh my god.
• 1:08:52
  Tad Eggleston: I went back and looked at who was in Artist Alley that year, and I'm sitting there going, oh my god, the number of people I could have met and talked to, because there was nobody over there.
• 1:09:05
  Michael Torma: I… I think about that a lot.
• 1:09:07
  Tad Eggleston: A few people over there that I thought I wasn't allowed to go.
• 1:09:13
  Michael Torma: I… I… I… What is it? I went to…
• 1:09:17
  Michael Torma: the San Diego Comic-Con back in 1997.
• 1:09:22
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, so you were there the year before I was.
• 1:09:23
  Michael Torma: Yeah, and I remember this because they had a… A giant… spawn… inflatable.
• 1:09:31
  Michael Torma: outside of this place. I don't remember too much.
• 1:09:35
  Michael Torma: about the show. I took… I took my picture with a guy dressed like the Silver Surfer.
• 1:09:40
  Michael Torma: I was wearing my Incredible Hulk t-shirt that I wore all the time.
• 1:09:46
  Michael Torma: And what did I buy? I can do this, I think I can remember this.
• 1:09:49
  Tad Eggleston: I bought a bunch of Daredevil comics. That's what I remember I bought.
• 1:09:53
  Michael Torma: Yeah, no, I…
• 1:09:54
  Tad Eggleston: That's what I was there for.
• 1:09:56
  Michael Torma: What did I buy? I bought…
• 1:10:00
  Tad Eggleston: My brother's got toys, and I got Daredevil to come.
• 1:10:03
  Michael Torma: Turtle Comics, they're great! I… I think I got, some early Hulk.
• 1:10:08
  Michael Torma: early Hulk stuff, because I always collected the Hulk.
• 1:10:12
  Michael Torma: Captain America, and then, Green Lantern. I've always been… Okay. Yeah, always been good. But, God, I remember.
• 1:10:19
  Tad Eggleston: So you're into Green Stuff and Captain America?
• 1:10:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah, well, Hulk… Hulk was always my favorite.
• 1:10:24
  Tad Eggleston: So, is the Skrull version of Captain America your favorite Captain America, because he's also green?
• 1:10:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. You hit the nail right on the head, yeah.
• 1:10:35
  Tad Eggleston: I gotta go find the Skrull Captain America toy to give to Torma.
• 1:10:40
  Michael Torma: Right, the Marvel Legends, Skrull, Captain America, no, Hulk… Hulk was always my favorite, because as a kid, I, you know, I was a shy kid, believe it or not, and then, like, super overweight.
• 1:10:54
  Tad Eggleston: I'm actually still shy when I'm not around comics people.
• 1:10:58
  Michael Torma: Oh, really?
• 1:11:00
  Tad Eggleston: and classrooms.
• 1:11:01
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:02
  Tad Eggleston: Baseball people.
• 1:11:04
  Tad Eggleston: Baseball. Yeah, those are… baseball's my other thing.
• 1:11:07
  Michael Torma: Oh, nice.
• 1:11:07
  Tad Eggleston: There's a lot of baseball people in comics.
• 1:11:09
  Michael Torma: Yeah, there are. There are a lot of
• 1:11:11
  Michael Torma: I wish I was a bigger baseball guy.
• 1:11:13
  Tad Eggleston: I… I have an annual… Baseball and Comics Roundtable.
• 1:11:19
  Michael Torma: Hmm.
• 1:11:19
  Tad Eggleston: that, like, Heidi McDonald practically threatens to kill me if I schedule it on a day that she's not free.
• 1:11:25
  Michael Torma: It's so good.
• 1:11:29
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I wish I was a bigger baseball person.
• 1:11:33
  Tad Eggleston: That's okay.
• 1:11:35
  Michael Torma: I, I, I really.
• 1:11:35
  Tad Eggleston: I just… I love that the only sport that I care about seems to be the only sport
• 1:11:43
  Tad Eggleston: that many people in comics care… I mean, there seem to be 3 sets of people in comics when it comes to sports. Well, four, but… but the fourth set is really just David Harper and Kyle Starks. There are 3 sets of people when it comes to sports and comics. There are…
• 1:12:03
  Tad Eggleston: There are the, I don't like sports.
• 1:12:06
  Tad Eggleston: There are the, does wrestling Count?
• 1:12:10
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm a wrestling guy.
• 1:12:13
  Tad Eggleston: Right, and there are the baseball people.
• 1:12:16
  Michael Torma: Yep.
• 1:12:17
  Tad Eggleston: And then, David Harbour and Kyle Starks are big basketball guys.
• 1:12:21
  Tad Eggleston: But I think they're alone in that.
• 1:12:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah, there's a little basketball crossover. I mean…
• 1:12:28
  Michael Torma: to be honest, I… it's… I think it's more interesting, like, the wrestling I kind of get, because wrestling and comics kind of feel almost hand-in-hand in a lot of, like, ways, with, like, you know, personalities, and over-the-tops, and archetypes, and all this. Baseball, I wonder if it's kind of tied to that Americana
• 1:12:46
  Michael Torma: Of, like, going into the convenience store and getting baseball cards and a comic, you know?
• 1:12:50
  Tad Eggleston: I think it's… I think it's one part that, and one part…
• 1:12:56
  Tad Eggleston: When it comes to storytelling, and I think this is the only… I think this is… I mean, you just hit it with the wrestling, too. Wrestling is, like, real-life superheroes.
• 1:13:04
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:13:04
  Tad Eggleston: Right? But… but when it comes to storytelling, what sport Has more storytelling than baseball.
• 1:13:13
  Michael Torma: Wrestling.
• 1:13:16
  Tad Eggleston: Again.
• 1:13:17
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Wrestling is your, is your, like, super, but, but, like…
• 1:13:22
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, but, like, of all the sports, which… is there a sport that has more novels than baseball novels? Is there a sport that has more movies than baseball movies? Is there a sport that has more…
• 1:13:34
  Tad Eggleston: Poetry, then baseball poetry. Music, then baseball music. You know…
• 1:13:40
  Tad Eggleston: there's a narrative to it. Like, the only sport that even comes close, and this is where you get into the wrestling too, and I think the wrestling outweighs it for most comics people, because it's got more bombast, is boxing.
• 1:13:56
  Michael Torma: And is that…
• 1:13:57
  Tad Eggleston: is that, like, mono a mano storytelling. Baseball has more of…
• 1:14:07
  Tad Eggleston: Equal parts individual and team, and the long season.
• 1:14:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah, well, it's… it's.
• 1:14:14
  Tad Eggleston: Put those things together, and, like, it's just ripe.
• 1:14:18
  Tad Eggleston: For real storytelling.
• 1:14:20
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's… it's Spider-Man versus the X-Men, right? Right. Like, Spider-Man has that more boxing sort of mentality, you get the underdog story, you get the one-on-one, mano-a-mano.
• 1:14:30
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, the X-Men, they play baseball a lot of times.
• 1:14:33
  Michael Torma: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:14:34
  Michael Torma: That's… that's where I'm getting to, yeah, yeah. That's the only baseball that I really know is, like, the X-Men playing baseball every summer. But, no, and the… it's… because, like, baseball, you get teams of characters and teams of people playing against each other and creating that drama. Like the X-Men, you know, they have…
• 1:14:51
  Tad Eggleston: Also…
• 1:14:52
  Michael Torma: Brotherhood…
• 1:14:53
  Tad Eggleston: There's… there's still the head-to-head pitcher versus…
• 1:14:56
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 1:14:57
  Tad Eggleston: batter.
• 1:14:58
  Tad Eggleston: You know, it's…
• 1:14:59
  Michael Torma: centralized Xavier Magneto conflict that leads to everything.
• 1:15:03
  Tad Eggleston: You know, the Americana goes deeper than just the baseball cards next to the comic books, you know, you've got old barnstorming leagues, you've got the Negro Leagues, you've got, I mean, just…
• 1:15:16
  Tad Eggleston: wealth of storytelling. Yeah. Tradition around the sport. So that's… that's my theory, anyway, on why there are… and, like.
• 1:15:27
  Tad Eggleston: I… I decided that I was… the only time in my life where I felt too young
• 1:15:33
  Tad Eggleston: was when Dennis Kitchen told me that there used to be…
• 1:15:40
  Tad Eggleston: on Friday in San… Friday afternoon in San Diego.
• 1:15:45
  Tad Eggleston: Either, editors, publishers, or a publisher's distributor's…
• 1:15:52
  Tad Eggleston: However it worked out so that they had the right number of players on each side, softball game.
• 1:16:01
  Tad Eggleston: Part of San Diego Comic-Con, from its inception until, like, the mid-90s, was a Friday afternoon softball game. And man, would that have been awesome to…
• 1:16:14
  Michael Torma: Oh, if I had a time machine, I would go back to all of that, and like, the history, the moments, the door.
• 1:16:22
  Tad Eggleston: Excellent.
• 1:16:22
  Michael Torma: weebs that made us who we are today, you know?
• 1:16:25
  Tad Eggleston: Damn.
• 1:16:26
  Michael Torma: It's, I don't know, it's incredible. I'm trying to… I wish I had some photos or something from that, San Diego Comic-Con.
• 1:16:35
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I don't think I even took any.
• 1:16:37
  Michael Torma: I, I have…
• 1:16:37
  Tad Eggleston: one that I was at.
• 1:16:38
  Michael Torma: I know I have some photos, I know… I think I got, like, a, an X-Men Hawaiian shirt or something, or…
• 1:16:46
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I swear to God, Torma, I didn't realize it was a big deal.
• 1:16:51
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 1:16:52
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's like… I don't know, I have great parents, and they took me to every comic book shop that I asked them to when I was younger.
• 1:16:59
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right. Oh, but the end of the story, so I…
• 1:17:03
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah.
• 1:17:03
  Tad Eggleston: Been looking all over the place, couldn't find the love and war.
• 1:17:08
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 1:17:09
  Tad Eggleston: It was the infancy of the internet.
• 1:17:13
  Michael Torma: So finding it online…
• 1:17:16
  Tad Eggleston: was barely an option, but when I did, I never found it for less than $100, and $100 in 1999 was, like…
• 1:17:25
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I was getting paid $7.50 an hour?
• 1:17:29
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:17:30
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that was 2 days' worth of work for me.
• 1:17:33
  Tad Eggleston: It wasn't… wasn't… THAT desperate to read everything Frank Miller had ever done.
• 1:17:41
  Tad Eggleston: But… I was working at the now-defunct JC Comics in downtown Wheaton.
• 1:17:48
  Tad Eggleston: And one of our regular customers had been
• 1:17:53
  Tad Eggleston: one of the founders, and I think was still a silent partner, of…
• 1:17:59
  Tad Eggleston: the College of Comic Book Knowledge in Minneapolis.
• 1:18:03
  Michael Torma: Hmm.
• 1:18:04
  Tad Eggleston: Better known as Comic College, still there.
• 1:18:08
  Tad Eggleston: I was also working for Best Buy at the time, so when I got sent up to Minneapolis on a business trip, he told me.
• 1:18:18
  Tad Eggleston: Talk to Ralph.
• 1:18:19
  Tad Eggleston: Tell him John sent you.
• 1:18:21
  Tad Eggleston: I think he's probably got it somewhere.
• 1:18:27
  Tad Eggleston: And they had just put together their first catalog, so they just managed to, like, catalog all of their back issues, and, like, again, catalog. He could hand me… hand me the physical paper that I could flip through and go, oh!
• 1:18:44
  Michael Torma: I need this one! Yeah!
• 1:18:45
  Tad Eggleston: Wasn't in that.
• 1:18:47
  Tad Eggleston: But he turned to another guy, and he said, weren't you going through a Frank Miller phase?
• 1:18:53
  Tad Eggleston: 6 months ago?
• 1:18:55
  Tad Eggleston: Do you know if we've got…
• 1:18:57
  Tad Eggleston: this, and the guy went, yeah, I think we got, like, 10 copies down in the basement.
• 1:19:04
  Michael Torma: So they went down to the basement, they grabbed it.
• 1:19:06
  Tad Eggleston: And now, kind of like Lovin' Rockets, it's one of those books that was… it's never officially expensive. Like, it's… its list price was 10 bucks in the comics buyer's Guide. Right.
• 1:19:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:19:22
  Tad Eggleston: So that's what he sold it to me for.
• 1:19:25
  Michael Torma: That's beautiful.
• 1:19:27
  Tad Eggleston: And that's why I remembered it when he said 10 bucks.
• 1:19:29
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah! No, no, 10 bucks!
• 1:19:31
  Tad Eggleston: Because after, like, a year and a half of looking for it, debating dropping $100 to host
• 1:19:40
  Tad Eggleston: Because, again, early days of the internet, so, like, I'm sending a check off to an address, and hoping that they send some…
• 1:19:48
  Michael Torma: They send it back.
• 1:19:48
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah. This is free eBay!
• 1:19:51
  Michael Torma: Right. You're like, hopefully this guy I met on the message board, like, hopefully… Right, right. It's like, it's like one step above, like, sending money off to, like, the comic shop that had the ad in the Marvel comic. Yeah. You remember those ads? The Mile High? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:07
  Tad Eggleston: we, if we're out, we'll send you something of equal value, but we won't give your money back.
• 1:20:16
  Michael Torma: God, it was a… it was a different time. So many crumpled-up, comics, and folded, and ugh.
• 1:20:23
  Tad Eggleston: high school, if I want to fuck with them, I say things like, you know, when I was in school, there weren't cell phones.
• 1:20:30
  Michael Torma: That's… yeah, and I… to see their face.
• 1:20:32
  Tad Eggleston: Well, how did you… how did… how did you get a ride home? And I'm like, well, there were these things on the wall called payphones, and you could put a quarter in them.
• 1:20:43
  Michael Torma: We had a magical book called The Phone Book.
• 1:20:50
  Michael Torma: Had.
• 1:20:51
  Tad Eggleston: You remember that many numbers?
• 1:20:55
  Michael Torma: Garb.
• 1:20:55
  Tad Eggleston: They don't even know my own phone number!
• 1:20:58
  Michael Torma: I used to remember, gosh, like, I had, like…
• 1:21:01
  Tad Eggleston: I still remember so many phone numbers from my childhood, and, like, I think…
• 1:21:06
  Tad Eggleston: there are maybe 4 phone numbers that are currently active that I still know.
• 1:21:12
  Michael Torma: It… it's crazy, I… at Panera.
• 1:21:15
  Tad Eggleston: One of them is my wife's, and I'd been married for 2 years before I memorized.
• 1:21:23
  Tad Eggleston: And that was because she gave me hell one day when I left my cell phone at home.
• 1:21:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:21:28
  Tad Eggleston: Wouldn't call her from work.
• 1:21:31
  Michael Torma: Oh, gosh.
• 1:21:32
  Tad Eggleston: What do you mean you don't know my phone number?
• 1:21:34
  Michael Torma: Yeah. What do you mean you don't know it?
• 1:21:36
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, well, I never needed it before.
• 1:21:39
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's always been in there! It's always been there, and I'm always next to ya. I don't need it.
• 1:21:46
  Michael Torma: Ugh.
• 1:21:47
  Tad Eggleston: Ugh…
• 1:21:49
  Michael Torma: See, Torma, you need to come back more regularly, because we've talked about everything and nothing.
• 1:21:55
  Michael Torma: Yeah, we've talked about so much, what are you talking about? .
• 1:22:00
  Tad Eggleston: That's what I mean. We haven't actually finished a single thread, but we've talked about so much.
• 1:22:07
  Michael Torma: I'm a talker, Tad, you know? I think we both are.
• 1:22:11
  Tad Eggleston: too.
• 1:22:11
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:12
  Tad Eggleston: also…
• 1:22:13
  Michael Torma: I'm sorry, you've got me super loopy right now, because I have that effect.
• 1:22:18
  Tad Eggleston: It's just been one of those… well, it's also just been one of those weeks.
• 1:22:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah, man. I hear ya.
• 1:22:24
  Tad Eggleston: those weeks…
• 1:22:25
  Michael Torma: It's crazy. I'm hoping for the Godzilla to show up eventually, you know? But, yeah, no, Tad, had me all!
• 1:22:32
  Tad Eggleston: Speaking of Godzilla.
• 1:22:33
  Michael Torma: Fucking good.
• 1:22:34
  Tad Eggleston: Godzilla comics lately.
• 1:22:36
  Michael Torma: Oh, they're so good. Are you kidding me?
• 1:22:38
  Tad Eggleston: know I liked Godzilla.
• 1:22:41
  Michael Torma: And now I do. Yeah! IDW's killing you with…
• 1:22:44
  Tad Eggleston: Doing that to me.
• 1:22:46
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:22:46
  Michael Torma: They…
• 1:22:47
  Tad Eggleston: Comics keep doing that. Like, in the last year, the number of things that I didn't like…
• 1:22:53
  Tad Eggleston: that I started liking.
• 1:22:56
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, I mean, it started, and I… He's a dear friend.
• 1:23:02
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:23:02
  Tad Eggleston: So I don't hate him for it.
• 1:23:05
  Michael Torma: Oh, God.
• 1:23:09
  Tad Eggleston: But I had always been a Star Wars guy that, like, remember when we were kids, you were either Star Wars or Star Trek. Very few people were both.
• 1:23:17
  Michael Torma: No, yeah, nobody would.
• 1:23:19
  Tad Eggleston: So I was… I was always a Star Wars guy.
• 1:23:23
  Tad Eggleston: Now, my friend Chris Cantwell is one of those rare guys who's both.
• 1:23:27
  Tad Eggleston: But he's also a really big Trek guy, which means when he got the Defiant assignment.
• 1:23:33
  Tad Eggleston: he shit himself. Not quite literally.
• 1:23:35
  Michael Torma: But… Probably.
• 1:23:38
  Tad Eggleston: I got the message, like, long before it got announced. Oh my god, I get to do this! And I'm like, oh, oh my god, I actually have to learn about Star Trek now.
• 1:23:50
  Michael Torma: I know a little about Star Trek. I try to know a little about everything, but…
• 1:23:54
  Tad Eggleston: And even then, initially, I'm like, okay, I hatched a plan.
• 1:23:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah. And I'm gonna plug a couple of old episodes.
• 1:24:05
  Tad Eggleston: I had him, and Jackson, and Colin.
• 1:24:08
  Tad Eggleston: come on 22 panels to give a Star Trek crash course.
• 1:24:14
  Tad Eggleston: And I had my friend Aaron, who's a Trek fan, and Chris Condon, who's a Trek fan, as the actual professor. So the way we set it up…
• 1:24:23
  Tad Eggleston: was, I was the student.
• 1:24:26
  Tad Eggleston: Aaron and Chris Condon were the professors to make certain that there were some good questions asked, in case I didn't have any good ones.
• 1:24:34
  Tad Eggleston: The guest professors, were Jackson Collin and Chris Cantwell.
• 1:24:40
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, they're pitching this series and all this stuff, and Jackson's so excited about it and whatnot, and I'm taking notes to try to ask good questions and whatnot, so we get through it, and…
• 1:24:52
  Tad Eggleston: He's like, so… Questions? I'm like, yes.
• 1:24:56
  Tad Eggleston: I've got a few, but we're gonna start with… Who's Benjamin Sisko?
• 1:25:04
  Tad Eggleston: And Jackson just starts laughing, he's like, what's a Benjamin Sisko? You really weren't getting you talking about?
• 1:25:13
  Tad Eggleston: I'm like, this is what I told you!
• 1:25:18
  Michael Torma: I don't… yeah, you didn't know! You didn't know any of that!
• 1:25:23
  Tad Eggleston: But… but their run was so good.
• 1:25:26
  Michael Torma: What episode of 22 Panels is that?
• 1:25:29
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, God. At this point, I just, like, do the search… use the search engine.
• 1:25:34
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:35
  Tad Eggleston: Go to 22 panels and put Star Trek in, because when they wrapped up their runs, we also… we had the three of them and Heather Antos back to do, like…
• 1:25:46
  Tad Eggleston: the Star Trek.
• 1:25:48
  Tad Eggleston: Masterclass, after having done the Star Trek.
• 1:25:52
  Michael Torma: Oh, wow. Okay, well, I know what I'm listening to next time, yeah.
• 1:25:55
  Tad Eggleston: But so, so their stuff was so good, that…
• 1:26:00
  Tad Eggleston: First, I watched all of Deep Space Nine, where I got to know very well what a Benjamin Sisko is.
• 1:26:06
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:26:06
  Tad Eggleston: Then I watched all of Voyager, and then I watched all of Next Generation.
• 1:26:12
  Tad Eggleston: while I was doing that, I watched all of Lower Decks. Now I've watched most of Enterprise.
• 1:26:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 1:26:21
  Tad Eggleston: It's like…
• 1:26:21
  Michael Torma: And now, now you're a Trekkie, yeah.
• 1:26:23
  Tad Eggleston: What!
• 1:26:24
  Michael Torma: It starts with one! Like a triple, it just starts with one little dude, and then gets worse and worse.
• 1:26:31
  Tad Eggleston: Thank God I haven't fallen as far down the rabbit hole yet.
• 1:26:35
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:26:36
  Tad Eggleston: But, like… I never liked G.I. Joe.
• 1:26:40
  Tad Eggleston: I wasn't allowed to watch G.I. Joe because it was too violent, I was only allowed to watch the public service announcement at the end.
• 1:26:48
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 1:26:49
  Tad Eggleston: But, like…
• 1:26:50
  Tad Eggleston: to me, G.I. Joe and Star Wars were also in competition, because they both had the action figures, and I liked the Star Wars ones better.
• 1:26:58
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:26:58
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, so, so, like…
• 1:27:01
  Tad Eggleston: He-Man was the show that I was upset that I couldn't watch because it was too violent.
• 1:27:08
  Michael Torma: It's so good.
• 1:27:09
  Tad Eggleston: But then Kelly Thompson wrote Scarlet, and I'm like, god damn it, Kelly?
• 1:27:13
  Tad Eggleston: Read a G.I. Joe?
• 1:27:15
  Michael Torma: I gotta get into G.I. Joe!
• 1:27:16
  Tad Eggleston: She's like, not only do you have to read a GLA Joe book, you should really go read Josh Williamson's book, and then I'm like…
• 1:27:23
  Tad Eggleston: And I haven't yet, but they're still, like, on the pile.
• 1:27:27
  Michael Torma: love the tomes. Yeah, I mean, G.I. Joe comics are great. The Larry Hammond stuff, of course, is, phenomenal, but, there's a.
• 1:27:35
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know if I'll wind up going that far back.
• 1:27:38
  Michael Torma: You should read some of them, they're all right, but…
• 1:27:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess the biggest reason that I'm unlikely to go that far back is I don't like Hama's Punisher, I don't like Hama's Batman.
• 1:27:51
  Michael Torma: Hmm. Okay.
• 1:27:52
  Tad Eggleston: So the hamma that I've read, I'm just not into.
• 1:27:55
  Tad Eggleston: I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just…
• 1:27:56
  Michael Torma: No, dude.
• 1:27:57
  Tad Eggleston: direct.
• 1:27:58
  Michael Torma: Try, try the G.I. Joe, he had more,
• 1:28:01
  Michael Torma: leeway with all the G.I. Joe stuff, so he could really do what he wanted, and tell, like, the stories that he wanted. But I mean, if you've tried Hammer, then, you know, that might not be for you, and that's fine, that's okay.
• 1:28:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, this is the other thing that, like… I'm a really character-driven guy.
• 1:28:19
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like… Among my unpopular opinions, and, and, like.
• 1:28:28
  Tad Eggleston: This is… this is the place where I need to… because he's a guy that's been on the show, I'd love to have him on the show again, I like him as a person. There's some of his stuff that I consider some of the best comics in the world.
• 1:28:40
  Michael Torma: Yeah. I don't like Scott Snyder as much as most people do.
• 1:28:43
  Michael Torma: Oh, really?
• 1:28:44
  Tad Eggleston: He's way better at worldbuilding than character development, and I don't care as much about worldbuilding, particularly in superhero comics. I like the deep character dives.
• 1:28:55
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, that is a unique take. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:00
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, but I totally get why people love him.
• 1:29:03
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 1:29:04
  Tad Eggleston: like, you know, I mean, my favorite book of his is… Undiscovered country. And it's…
• 1:29:12
  Michael Torma: Oh, that is…
• 1:29:13
  Tad Eggleston: I'm actually pretty certain that the reason it's my favorite book of his is, like, the one person
• 1:29:21
  Tad Eggleston: who I've…
• 1:29:22
  Tad Eggleston: ever said, I wish they did their worldbuilding just a little bit better, because they do their character stuff so amazingly well?
• 1:29:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:29:31
  Tad Eggleston: and the world is sloppy enough that it sometimes bothers me, is Charles Sewell. So…
• 1:29:39
  Tad Eggleston: So you've got one of my favorite character builders, with a master world builder.
• 1:29:45
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 1:29:46
  Tad Eggleston: On a comic together, I had to pick it up.
• 1:29:49
  Michael Torma: You have to, it's… And I haven't regretted it. It's peanut butter and jelly, it's a cheese and burger, you know? Right. It works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and I like a lot of Scott's…
• 1:30:00
  Tad Eggleston: like, independent miniseries, I loved Barnstormers.
• 1:30:04
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  Michael Torma: Barnstormers was fun.
• 1:30:06
  Tad Eggleston: Which is creepy. I like the stuff he's done with his… I like the stuff he's done with Jack.
• 1:30:10
  Michael Torma: Son.
• 1:30:12
  Tad Eggleston: Has been really good.
• 1:30:13
  Tad Eggleston: Like, again, like, and I won't bash…
• 1:30:20
  Tad Eggleston: if we tried really hard, but I'm not in the mood, we could probably come up with a couple of comics people that I would bash, because I both don't like their comics, and I think they're horrible people, but in general, either…
• 1:30:35
  Tad Eggleston: They make great comics even though they're a horrible person, and I have trouble talking about them anymore because it turns out they're a horrible person, or…
• 1:30:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:30:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:30:45
  Tad Eggleston: They're good guys who don't actually make bad comics, they just make comics that aren't for me.
• 1:30:52
  Michael Torma: that's… that's fine, you know? Right. I mean, I… Scott Snyder, you know, he shopped at Third Eye when I worked there.
• 1:30:59
  Tad Eggleston: I believe it.
• 1:30:59
  Michael Torma: shops there. Super nice guy.
• 1:31:02
  Tad Eggleston: I knew he lived out east. I thought he lived in New York.
• 1:31:06
  Michael Torma: Yeah, he's… he's in New York, no, he's…
• 1:31:07
  Tad Eggleston: his son's… because… He was on the first Baseball and Comics Roundtable.
• 1:31:13
  Michael Torma: Wow, nice!
• 1:31:14
  Tad Eggleston: His son's a massive baseball fan.
• 1:31:16
  Michael Torma: Oh, perfect, there you go. Yeah, no, he would come down, every now and again, but, I mean, third eye.
• 1:31:24
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, he's an incredible guy.
• 1:31:25
  Michael Torma: Yeah, he's awesome. Third Eye was a shop that really supported him early on, and I think… I still remember when he was calling shops, and I… this was when Third Eye was no bigger than, like, my basement right now, and
• 1:31:40
  Michael Torma: What is it? He was like, hey, my name's Scott Snyder.
• 1:31:42
  Tad Eggleston: So you went through the whole, whole evolution of Third Eye, too.
• 1:31:48
  Michael Torma: Oh yeah, I was the first person they hired at Third Eye. Okay. So it went from…
• 1:31:54
  Michael Torma: Yeah, the joke is that my collection now is bigger than what Third Eye was when it first started, you know?
• 1:32:02
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:32:03
  Michael Torma: But… Which means…
• 1:32:06
  Tad Eggleston: Torma, if this whole thing at Oni doesn't work out, you can open a comic shop.
• 1:32:10
  Michael Torma: I, yeah, I…
• 1:32:12
  Tad Eggleston: you need.
• 1:32:12
  Michael Torma: I have one right here. I have everything you need, I just gotta invite people…
• 1:32:18
  Tad Eggleston: Go rent a storefront, move your stuff.
• 1:32:21
  Michael Torma: I… you… it's funny you bring that up. There was…
• 1:32:26
  Tad Eggleston: That's how so many comic shops.
• 1:32:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that's. It's the wife that says, I need this out of the house. I need it out now!
• 1:32:33
  Michael Torma: and just figure out somewhere else to take it. Thankfully, I have a basement that can hold some of my collection, but… Right.
• 1:32:43
  Michael Torma: Yeah, no, I… in college, I had, neighbors who…
• 1:32:47
  Michael Torma: We lived in townhomes, right? And they made their place a bar on Google Maps, so all, like, just to goof with people, so you'd see people walk, like, walk up to these, like, townhouses, looking at them, going, like, where… where's this bar, or whatever?
• 1:33:03
  Tad Eggleston: R.
• 1:33:03
  Michael Torma: Yeah, but they had…
• 1:33:05
  Michael Torma: in their place, I went into the, they had a corner unit, which was weird, and I went in there, and they pulled off this, vent.
• 1:33:15
  Michael Torma: And apparently the vent was just, like, a fake vent. It was just there to, like, cover up a hole or something, and you go in, and they had a whole extra, like, room, that was, like, set up as a bar. It was like a secret, like, speakeasy bar in their apartment. I was like, that's insane. That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. I love that. So maybe something like that would be…
• 1:33:34
  Tad Eggleston: It'd be cooler if it was a secret speakeasy comic shop.
• 1:33:37
  Michael Torma: Exactly. Yeah, that's what I'll do, the secret Torma speakeasy.
• 1:33:43
  Tad Eggleston: Well, you'll have to come up with a password.
• 1:33:47
  Michael Torma: The password is, Wortham. Tip, you know?
• 1:33:51
  Tad Eggleston: Tell Torma Wertham is here.
• 1:33:53
  Michael Torma: Hotelum Wortham is here.
• 1:33:55
  Michael Torma: Seduction of the innocent. But,
• 1:33:58
  Michael Torma: Where were we? Where were we talking? Oh yeah, I was with Third Eye from the very beginning. Yeah. I've been with Third Eye, I had longer hair back then, but, I think that's also another reason why…
• 1:34:11
  Michael Torma: I, you know, get along with so many shops is, like, I know… I know the struggles of the smaller shop to the larger shop, you know?
• 1:34:18
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:34:19
  Michael Torma: And so I've seen all of it, in some way, shape.
• 1:34:22
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and you can't spend that much time at a shop and not start to get to know
• 1:34:29
  Tad Eggleston: A lot of the industry people, unless you're trying not to.
• 1:34:34
  Michael Torma: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:34:35
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, don't get me wrong, I know people who have had shops for 20 years who…
• 1:34:40
  Tad Eggleston: Somehow don't even know other shop owners, much less…
• 1:34:45
  Tad Eggleston: publishing people or whatnot, but, like, I know them well enough to know how they've pulled it off, too.
• 1:34:52
  Michael Torma: Right, yeah, yeah, they… they have the comics, they got the collections, they got that amazing Fantasy XV a few times.
• 1:34:58
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and they pay somebody in comics to do all the real work for them so that they don't have to be in the shop any more minutes than they absolutely have.
• 1:35:09
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right? The best way to make a million dollars in comics is to…
• 1:35:15
  Tad Eggleston: And that person doesn't wind up getting the connections because they have to say, yeah, no, I don't have the…
• 1:35:23
  Tad Eggleston: You know, the owner will be in at such and such a time.
• 1:35:27
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's a, it's a crazy system, yeah. But it happens, it happens more often than you think, you know?
• 1:35:34
  Michael Torma: But, comics is a very, I don't know, carny business. It,
• 1:35:40
  Michael Torma: A lot of characters… I like to always say that comics… everybody in comics, to me, is like a Simpsons character, right? You know?
• 1:35:47
  Michael Torma: They all have their own.
• 1:35:49
  Tad Eggleston: But actually, the comic shop characters, for the most part.
• 1:35:52
  Michael Torma: No.
• 1:35:53
  Tad Eggleston: We've got a couple of comic shop guys out there, but…
• 1:35:58
  Tad Eggleston: But I think most of the comic shop owner, or comic shop guy.
• 1:36:03
  Tad Eggleston: Simpsons are out of the business at this point.
• 1:36:05
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah, no, I… I don't…
• 1:36:07
  Tad Eggleston: That many of them left.
• 1:36:08
  Michael Torma: I don't mean that archetype, I mean literally.
• 1:36:10
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, I know, I just, I was, I was thinking out loud that, like, yes, The Simpsons characters are all over comics.
• 1:36:18
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:36:18
  Tad Eggleston: Except the one that's based on comics.
• 1:36:21
  Michael Torma: Right? Except the one guy.
• 1:36:23
  Tad Eggleston: Not in comics anymore.
• 1:36:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah. There's still a few. You always get.
• 1:36:27
  Tad Eggleston: a few of these.
• 1:36:28
  Michael Torma: The old guard who, you know… but yeah, 9 times out of 10, you're gonna get somebody who's not, not the stereotypical comic book guy, you know?
• 1:36:38
  Tad Eggleston: Because, because honestly, the comic book guy, I think, is… remember when comics…
• 1:36:44
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the comic shops were also…
• 1:36:47
  Tad Eggleston: like, Rare Coin and or baseball card shops, and almost always the comics were the afterthought of the guy.
• 1:36:55
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:36:57
  Michael Torma: That's the comic book shop guy.
• 1:36:59
  Tad Eggleston: comic book guy. That's the comic shop guy. He's a little bit of a geek, but how often is he… even when he gets onto the internet in later seasons, you know, he's looking into movie stuff, and marking up the prices on the comics. He's not, so-and-so's about to write.
• 1:37:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah, he's not…
• 1:37:20
  Tad Eggleston: Long boy.
• 1:37:22
  Michael Torma: Sadarsky's writing a radioactive band. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:25
  Tad Eggleston: Right, right, it's, it's, radioactive Man movie!
• 1:37:31
  Michael Torma: Schwit? Yeah, like… Dollars right here? Yeah, no, I… I think thankful for that, too.
• 1:37:37
  Michael Torma: Excuse me. That, thankful for that, that, comics don't have as many of those
• 1:37:44
  Michael Torma: comic book guys in them, and granted, you still get that every now and again. I've been to plenty of conventions where people have told me, you know, hey, why don't you guys just do this? Or, you know, you guys…
• 1:37:56
  Michael Torma: what is it? Yeah, like, every… like, telling me, like, oh yeah, you guys should do this comic, that comic. It's like, yeah, I wish we could, if we could afford a license, you know? Like…
• 1:38:05
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:38:05
  Michael Torma: It's stuff like that. I mean, but…
• 1:38:07
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and if there was actually an audience for it beyond you.
• 1:38:12
  Michael Torma: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:13
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, you should do this comic! It's like, oh, you want us to pay for that license? Do you understand how few people actually care about…
• 1:38:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah. How niche the niche thing is, and the niche business.
• 1:38:27
  Michael Torma: like… Yeah, What is this?
• 1:38:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, they can't even consistently make shadow comics work.
• 1:38:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:38:38
  Michael Torma: I love the shadow, too. I do, too!
• 1:38:40
  Tad Eggleston: But this is what I'm saying.
• 1:38:44
  Tad Eggleston: I love the Howard Shake.
• 1:38:46
  Michael Torma: I love the Howard Shaikin, the shadow run, yeah.
• 1:38:49
  Tad Eggleston: Lord.
• 1:38:49
  Tad Eggleston: Howard's been on a couple of times. Howard's so cool.
• 1:38:52
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I've never met, never met Howard. Oh, no, I met Howard at a con, like, just briefly. Lovely.
• 1:38:57
  Tad Eggleston: talking to Howard.
• 1:38:58
  Michael Torma: That's awesome. I love talking to Howard.
• 1:39:00
  Michael Torma: Is he gonna be at C2E2, do you know?
• 1:39:03
  Tad Eggleston: He's not on the list yet.
• 1:39:04
  Michael Torma: Hmm.
• 1:39:06
  Tad Eggleston: He's not on the list yet.
• 1:39:07
  Tad Eggleston: I don't think he does a ton of cons these days. He doesn't really need to.
• 1:39:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah, he's… I mean, he's alright, he's… I think he's fine. I.
• 1:39:17
  Tad Eggleston: He's, he's, he, he, he, he…
• 1:39:21
  Tad Eggleston: he was careful with his Hollywood money.
• 1:39:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:39:26
  Tad Eggleston: You know.
• 1:39:26
  Michael Torma: So he doesn't have to… yeah, doesn't have to…
• 1:39:29
  Tad Eggleston: Pretty… pretty well set up so that, like, he can do…
• 1:39:33
  Tad Eggleston: What he wants, as long as he's not stupid.
• 1:39:37
  Michael Torma: Have you… have you ever done Heroes? HeroesCon?
• 1:39:40
  Tad Eggleston: No, but that's on, like, the top of the… I've been to Heroes Aren't Hard to Find. That was one of the stops on the… that was actually the shop that I went to…
• 1:39:52
  Tad Eggleston: the day before Third Eye.
• 1:39:54
  Tad Eggleston: Not the shop before Third Eye, because I hit… I hit, Planet Comics in DC on my way to Third Eye, but…
• 1:40:01
  Michael Torma: Oh, yeah.
• 1:40:02
  Tad Eggleston: The day I met you, I'd woken up in Charlotte, North Carolina.
• 1:40:07
  Michael Torma: Wow. I think I remember you telling me that, now that you said that.
• 1:40:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, and I drove up the coast, stopped at Planet Comics in DC, and then came to Third Eye.
• 1:40:16
  Michael Torma: And then came to Third Eye, and you were… because I remember you were pretty, like, beat and dead, and you were traveling.
• 1:40:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, well, and that was only, like, day 4.
• 1:40:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah. God.
• 1:40:26
  Tad Eggleston: But it was… that night is when I got to New Jersey, where I have a friend that lives, and I spent 4 days where that was my home base. We went out to comic shops every day.
• 1:40:37
  Michael Torma: Mmm, but you came back, so… No, we did.
• 1:40:39
  Tad Eggleston: We did 2 days' worth of stuff in New York. He and I did, like, a 300-mile…
• 1:40:46
  Tad Eggleston: circuit through Pennsylvania and Jersey.
• 1:40:50
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah!
• 1:40:51
  Tad Eggleston: went up to Scranton, came down through Philadelphia, hit some…
• 1:40:54
  Tad Eggleston: Jersey stores, and then went back to his house.
• 1:40:57
  Tad Eggleston: And then I cut through Albany, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland on the way home.
• 1:41:07
  Michael Torma: Damn.
• 1:41:08
  Michael Torma: That's nice. I…
• 1:41:10
  Michael Torma: The closest I got to was when I first started with Oni. I did a Torma tour, and from Wednesday to Sunday, I went up
• 1:41:18
  Michael Torma: And I hit… I went down first, and then up. So I went to Comic Logic, I went to Beyond Comics, Third Eye.
• 1:41:26
  Michael Torma: And then up… I went to Laughing Ogre, I went to…
• 1:41:30
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah. Laughing Ogre.
• 1:41:32
  Tad Eggleston: Ogre was, the second…
• 1:41:36
  Tad Eggleston: Second shop, I mean, I started… I started that tour at Challengers because I love Challengers.
• 1:41:41
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:41:42
  Tad Eggleston: I actually have a poll list at Challengers, even though, like, I can't get down there that often.
• 1:41:47
  Michael Torma: Challenges is awesome.
• 1:41:48
  Tad Eggleston: Just, yeah.
• 1:41:49
  Michael Torma: Pat and all are… yeah, they're amazing.
• 1:41:51
  Tad Eggleston: Al are just fantastic.
• 1:41:53
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:41:55
  Michael Torma: I was talking to Patrick the other day, like, last week.
• 1:41:57
  Tad Eggleston: So I start… so I started at Challengers.
• 1:41:59
  Tad Eggleston: And then I went to a friend of mine's store in…
• 1:42:04
  Tad Eggleston: I forget the store, but a friend of mine lived in Valpo at the time, and I was staying with him the first night, so we went to his store.
• 1:42:11
  Tad Eggleston: And then the next day.
• 1:42:14
  Tad Eggleston: The only story I hit was Laughing Ogre, because I went from Valpo to Columbus, hit Laughing Ogre, and then went from Columbus to a campground in…
• 1:42:26
  Tad Eggleston: I think West Virginia?
• 1:42:29
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 1:42:29
  Tad Eggleston: Virginia or West Virginia. That was the one night that I camped.
• 1:42:33
  Tad Eggleston: And then I woke up and went down to… Charlotte.
• 1:42:38
  Michael Torma: I actually spent…
• 1:42:40
  Tad Eggleston: two nights in Charlotte, so I went to… I went to Heroes a couple of times, and I hit a couple of the other stores in town.
• 1:42:47
  Michael Torma: That was my first kind of rest.
• 1:42:50
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 1:42:51
  Michael Torma: Taking it easy.
• 1:42:52
  Tad Eggleston: It's so hard to get down there. My dad had given me a hotel room for a birthday present, because that was the other reason that I was doing it. My birthday's always on spring break.
• 1:43:02
  Michael Torma: Oh, nice.
• 1:43:03
  Tad Eggleston: And then I swung up, I hit…
• 1:43:08
  Tad Eggleston: Is it Planet Comics in DC?
• 1:43:11
  Michael Torma: Big Planet… Big Planets in DC… Big Planet in DC. Yeah, big planets in DC, Phantoms in DC…
• 1:43:18
  Tad Eggleston: I didn't hit Phantom, I hit Big Planet.
• 1:43:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:43:19
  Tad Eggleston: DC, and then I swung to Third Eye, and then I went to New Jersey.
• 1:43:25
  Tad Eggleston: And then… the first day out of Jersey, we hit Brooklyn, we went to…
• 1:43:31
  Tad Eggleston: Bulletproof in anyone, and then we hit JHU on the way back.
• 1:43:36
  Michael Torma: Nice, okay.
• 1:43:37
  Tad Eggleston: The second day is when we did our…
• 1:43:45
  Tad Eggleston: Pennsylvania Jersey Loop, so it was… it was Comics on the Green in Scranton, it was Amalgam in Philly, Rest in Peace, I loved that store.
• 1:43:56
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't even remember the 3 that we hit in…
• 1:44:01
  Tad Eggleston: Jersey before having dinner with Chris Condon in Jersey City.
• 1:44:06
  Tad Eggleston: The next day, I hit…
• 1:44:14
  Tad Eggleston: Forbidden Planet in Manhattan, and spent the.
• 1:44:16
  Michael Torma: Afternoon.
• 1:44:17
  Tad Eggleston: Dude, with…
• 1:44:18
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 1:44:18
  Tad Eggleston: our Sikoriak.
• 1:44:20
  Michael Torma: Nice.
• 1:44:21
  Tad Eggleston: And then I went up to hit Aquilonia, outside of Albany, Because that's Marcus Kwame Anderson's.
• 1:44:31
  Tad Eggleston: Home Store.
• 1:44:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:44:32
  Tad Eggleston: And we met there, and he bought me lunch at a Jamaican place across the street for my birthday, and that…
• 1:44:40
  Tad Eggleston: That is when he told me about Big Jim and the White Boy. It would be 2 years, 2 years to the day that I couldn't tell anybody about that project.
• 1:44:53
  Tad Eggleston: It was announced on my birthday two years later.
• 1:44:56
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:59
  Tad Eggleston: And it's actually… it's the most… The. MOST.
• 1:45:04
  Tad Eggleston: Reposted 22 panels post ever.
• 1:45:08
  Tad Eggleston: I put up the Blue Sky Post, and mind you, the Blue Sky post said it was on my birthday two years ago.
• 1:45:15
  Tad Eggleston: Two years ago today.
• 1:45:17
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:45:17
  Tad Eggleston: That Marcus told me about this. Now I can finally share it with you, and I shared a link to Big Jim and the White Boy.
• 1:45:25
  Tad Eggleston: It was reposted, I think, a thousand times.
• 1:45:28
  Michael Torma: Not a single person said happy birthday to me.
• 1:45:31
  Michael Torma: Garbage. Garbage, garbage box.
• 1:45:34
  Tad Eggleston: No, it just tells you how cool the project was. Right, yeah. It's like, oh my god, look at that!
• 1:45:39
  Tad Eggleston: What is this? But nobody went…
• 1:45:42
  Michael Torma: Happy birthday, Dad!
• 1:45:47
  Tad Eggleston: So, from Albany, I went to Rochester. My friend Matt lives in Rochester. He took me to a couple shops in Rochester. I hit a couple of shops in Buffalo, and then…
• 1:45:58
  Tad Eggleston: Is it John and Carol's in Cleveland?
• 1:46:04
  Michael Torma: Yeah! Yeah, yeah.
• 1:46:06
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:46:06
  Michael Torma: Great job.
• 1:46:08
  Tad Eggleston: Derf Bechdurff told me I had to go there.
• 1:46:10
  Tad Eggleston: Fantastic.
• 1:46:14
  Tad Eggleston: Durf's great.
• 1:46:16
  Tad Eggleston: So, that actually… this is a perfect time. We're gonna… we're gonna ask the wrap-up questions, because at this point, I know you'll be back. I'm gonna suck you into a book club, man. Yeah, dude! When we go… when we go off-air, I'm gonna tell you the book clubs, and you're gonna be required to pick one.
• 1:46:31
  Michael Torma: Okay. I will… okay, hold me to it, yeah, yeah.
• 1:46:34
  Tad Eggleston: And if you don't pick one, then we'll just have to create a Tad and Torma one.
• 1:46:41
  Michael Torma: I mean… Tammy Torma.
• 1:46:43
  Michael Torma: TNT!
• 1:46:44
  Tad Eggleston: I'm already doing, like, 10 book clubs a month, so I'd almost prefer that you just join one of the current ones.
• 1:46:52
  Michael Torma: No, no, we're starting another.
• 1:46:53
  Tad Eggleston: I will start a new one for you.
• 1:46:56
  Michael Torma: We're doing 11 book clubs. You heard it here first, on 22 panels. We're doing 22 clubs, 22 days.
• 1:47:03
  Tad Eggleston: So, over the last…
• 1:47:10
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:47:11
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, two wrap-up questions. Over the last…
• 1:47:14
  Tad Eggleston: Going on 5 years now doing this podcast.
• 1:47:18
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like I've fallen into the Twilight Zone. The number of surreal experiences I've had, the number of people that I text with.
• 1:47:28
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Like…
• 1:47:29
  Tad Eggleston: Like, the people who are supposed to be just names and favorite books of mine, who I text during the World Series, or ask, or send their kids birthday presents, or whatever, like, I have fallen into the Twilight Zone.
• 1:47:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:47:45
  Tad Eggleston: And I have found that that is true of everybody that spends time in comics.
• 1:47:50
  Tad Eggleston: I talked to Matt Wagner, and he had surreal stories to tell. I've talked to Paul Pope, and he has surreal stories to tell.
• 1:47:57
  Tad Eggleston: So it's become my thing.
• 1:48:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:48:00
  Tad Eggleston: Tell me one of the surreal experiences that you've had. Tell me one of the experiences that, if 10-year-old Torma, or 18-year-old Torma.
• 1:48:09
  Michael Torma: Oh, man. Had been to.
• 1:48:10
  Tad Eggleston: I'm told, you will do this in your lifetime.
• 1:48:14
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:48:14
  Tad Eggleston: He would have gone, Fuck you, you're insane.
• 1:48:17
  Michael Torma: Yeah, funny. I mean, besides… besides where I'm at right now, every day I wake up and it feels like a surreal, like, experience. Right.
• 1:48:26
  Michael Torma: One for me, I'll do… the biggest one at Third Eye, surreal experience-wise, was probably when we had George Perez out.
• 1:48:35
  Michael Torma: For assigning?
• 1:48:37
  Michael Torma: And it was so busy, it was crazy, and we were nuts, and I was doing all this, and… I didn't think I'd get a chance to, like, talk to him, right? Because he had to… he had the signing, and then had to go on a flight to get,
• 1:48:51
  Michael Torma: somewhere else, and I was like, oh, I'm not gonna get a chance to talk. And so I'm in the back, and I remember I'm sorting stuff, I forget what it was, and then Trish, one of the owners of Third Eye, my boss, comes through, and she goes, Torma.
• 1:49:04
  Michael Torma: Look who it is! And she has George Perez, and I go, it's like the one time in comics that I've been a bumbling dork, where I'm like, hey, how's it going, Mr. George?
• 1:49:15
  Michael Torma: Perez, and I remember doing that so clearly, and becoming, like, Jimmy Olsen, and
• 1:49:22
  Michael Torma: he goes, oh, my goodness, hey, you, and I had, you know, the bald haircut and the beard, and he goes, you look like, are you sure you're not my son, you know? And, like, I…
• 1:49:31
  Michael Torma: I got to hug George Perez, and I took a picture with him, obviously, and it's like, for me, you know, Hulk Future Imperfect.
• 1:49:38
  Tad Eggleston: They sign a comic to you that says.
• 1:49:40
  Michael Torma: That's nice.
• 1:49:41
  Tad Eggleston: son, Michael?
• 1:49:42
  Michael Torma: I… I think my copy of Hulk Future Imperfect has that in there, or it's the JLA Avengers Absolute.
• 1:49:49
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:49:50
  Michael Torma: But no, that… that's one of the most surreal stories, I think.
• 1:49:55
  Michael Torma: What is it? New York Comic-Con this past year.
• 1:50:00
  Michael Torma: I got to have dinner with Matt Kent and his wife.
• 1:50:03
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice. And, you know, he's still on my short list of people that I haven't met or had on the podcast that I really, really want to.
• 1:50:12
  Michael Torma: He's super nice, he's awesome.
• 1:50:14
  Tad Eggleston: wait for.
• 1:50:15
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:50:15
  Tad Eggleston: more mind management.
• 1:50:17
  Michael Torma: That's every time you.
• 1:50:18
  Tad Eggleston: ounces more mint, and for that matter, he's doing stuff with David fucking Lapham right now. It's like, what the hell?
• 1:50:26
  Tad Eggleston: I finally met Lapham, that was… Oh, I'm…
• 1:50:29
  Michael Torma: I'm sure that's surreal, yeah.
• 1:50:31
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I had… I had the American caper crew on.
• 1:50:35
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:50:35
  Tad Eggleston: So I had Shelly, and I had David, and I had Laszlo, and we had a blast. And… and…
• 1:50:42
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, David's the only person that I own original art from.
• 1:50:46
  Michael Torma: Oh, wow. I…
• 1:50:47
  Tad Eggleston: Or, I'm sorry, an original page from.
• 1:50:50
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:50:50
  Tad Eggleston: an original Elsa Chartier, and I've got an original Mark Chiarello.
• 1:50:56
  Michael Torma: Well, actually, it's funny.
• 1:50:57
  Tad Eggleston: single.
• 1:50:58
  Michael Torma: to… This is Skull Kickers, right?
• 1:51:01
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:02
  Michael Torma: Jim Zub, Jim at you Zub. Right. This…
• 1:51:06
  Michael Torma: It's… it's an original… Trad more, but this was…
• 1:51:11
  Michael Torma: Before he got picked up.
• 1:51:13
  Michael Torma: For, like, you know, being amazing and doing all that.
• 1:51:17
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, nice.
• 1:51:17
  Michael Torma: at a pitch for an X-Men book. It later… Okay.
• 1:51:22
  Michael Torma: It became, like, X-Men Monstrous, right? But this is Cyclops and Emma Frost battling Fin Fang Foom, and he signed it, you know, to Torma.
• 1:51:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:51:31
  Tad Eggleston: I have a stray bullets page.
• 1:51:33
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:51:34
  Tad Eggleston: So, that…
• 1:51:35
  Michael Torma: That's… that's amazing. I mean, that's, like, that's… that's comic history. I'm trying to see…
• 1:51:41
  Tad Eggleston: It was a gift.
• 1:51:41
  Michael Torma: a…
• 1:51:42
  Tad Eggleston: It was a gift from the guy that I stayed with in, in, new Jersey.
• 1:51:47
  Tad Eggleston: It's nice to have pharmaceutical executives as friends.
• 1:51:51
  Michael Torma: Right? They have the money to just give you original artwork.
• 1:51:54
  Tad Eggleston: They sometimes buy you things that you wouldn't otherwise buy yourself.
• 1:51:58
  Michael Torma: Right?
• 1:51:58
  Tad Eggleston: Where's that?
• 1:52:00
  Michael Torma: That's, Riley Rossmo.
• 1:52:01
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:52:03
  Michael Torma: Yeah. And this was…
• 1:52:05
  Tad Eggleston: Swamp Thing.
• 1:52:06
  Michael Torma: Yeah, well, we had… we had him out for a signing, right?
• 1:52:09
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:52:10
  Michael Torma: And we took them to Outback Steakhouse, I remember, I remember it was Outback Steakhouse.
• 1:52:15
  Tad Eggleston: Best you could do?
• 1:52:17
  Michael Torma: This is… this is when Third Eye was smaller than my basement, and Outback Steakhouse is delicious. We had a feast.
• 1:52:23
  Tad Eggleston: I know, but I just… I feel like… I feel like, being that comic stores are the ultimate of non-corporate, non-chain, if you.
• 1:52:32
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 1:52:33
  Tad Eggleston: Take somebody out to dinner, it should be to a local joint.
• 1:52:36
  Michael Torma: I… well, yeah, but, Cuckabara Wings and the Bloomin' Onion are pretty delicious, so… So, counterpoint, Tad, they're great! I don't know! And they had a good time, we drank many drinks that were blue and red and all these stupid colors, and
• 1:52:56
  Michael Torma: I… we were talking, and I was like, you know what? And this is, like, right when he's doing Cowboy Ninja Viking, and I go, you know what? Your style would be perfect, and I hope you get to do it one day, is, Swamp Thing or Man thing, you know, like, some of the swampy dudes. And he's, like, he's sketching something on a… because he had, like, a commission or something, and he's sketching, and he just stops, and he goes.
• 1:53:15
  Michael Torma: Those are two of my favorite characters. And, the next day, he gave me that page. My bosses were like, hey, Riley drew this for you last night. I was like, what? And it's, yeah.
• 1:53:27
  Michael Torma: Full-page, man thing.
• 1:53:30
  Tad Eggleston: That's a surreal story right there.
• 1:53:33
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I know, I'm… I'm remembering.
• 1:53:34
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, one of my surreal stories is, like.
• 1:53:39
  Tad Eggleston: you know, I've become friends with Mark Chiarello, but it's still weird to say those words, because, like.
• 1:53:44
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:53:45
  Tad Eggleston: He was the… he was the art director at DC Comics for a long time.
• 1:53:49
  Michael Torma: Right, right?
• 1:53:51
  Tad Eggleston: But when I, like, became absolutely certain that, like, oh, oh.
• 1:53:57
  Tad Eggleston: we are friends, was, like, not just when he took time out during C2E2 this last year to just sit and have a cup of coffee with me, but, like, we were just trading, like, old baseball stories, both from our playing days and from games we'd watched and whatnot, and I told him a story about…
• 1:54:16
  Tad Eggleston: a game I pitched when I was in middle school, where I'd broken 3 fingers at school during the day, but that wasn't gonna keep me off the mound, so I'd, like, taped these two fingers together, and this one kinda hung loose, and I struck out 17.
• 1:54:31
  Michael Torma: Yeah, there you go, okay.
• 1:54:33
  Tad Eggleston: So, Mark does a lot of baseball portraits.
• 1:54:36
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:54:38
  Tad Eggleston: And… so when I'm… when I'm…
• 1:54:40
  Tad Eggleston: swinging by the booth to say goodbye at the end of Sunday, he's like, hold on a second. He goes, he's flipping through his baseball porch, he's like, where is it, where is it? He pulls out from behind a three-finger brown original.
• 1:54:52
  Tad Eggleston: And mind you, like, Mark Chiarello original art is not inexpensive.
• 1:54:57
  Michael Torma: No. Yeah. Yeah, not at all.
• 1:54:59
  Tad Eggleston: this for you? And I'm like, I… I… he's like…
• 1:55:03
  Michael Torma: For you. Please, take it.
• 1:55:06
  Tad Eggleston: So that's… that's up on my wall now.
• 1:55:09
  Michael Torma: Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, I… I moved around some art, so I've been trying to figure out how to put all this back up somewhere, but, yeah, it's… I think it's, like you said, it's a… it's a business, it's a, it's a group of friends and peers and colleagues where…
• 1:55:24
  Michael Torma: it's… we're all fans of the same medium, so almost every interaction can seem like this surreal kind of moment. Trying to think what other stories…
• 1:55:33
  Tad Eggleston: Look, it's… I mean, I… I've…
• 1:55:36
  Tad Eggleston: I've talked to so many people who've been around, and one of the questions I'll sometimes ask, particularly, like, of other podcasters or comics journalists or whatnot, is, like, does it ever get old?
• 1:55:46
  Tad Eggleston: Does it ever, like, wear off where you're sitting there going, oh my god, I'm talking to Tom King now? Even when you're saying, oh my god, I'm talking to my friend Tom King now, does it wear off? Yeah. It's like, no, it doesn't. It doesn't. It just feels like…
• 1:56:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:56:01
  Tad Eggleston: You're in this other world, and it's…
• 1:56:03
  Michael Torma: the moment, like, at a show, at a con or something, and I have, like, Tom King comes up from behind, he goes, who let this guy in? You know? I'm like, hey, how's it going, Tom?
• 1:56:13
  Tad Eggleston: You know?
• 1:56:14
  Michael Torma: And, like, I remember the days where he was at the Annapolis Comic-Con, and he wasn't the Tom King yet, he just had his, his book, A Once Crowded Sky.
• 1:56:25
  Tad Eggleston: Sky.
• 1:56:26
  Michael Torma: Yeah, and .
• 1:56:27
  Tad Eggleston: Are you and I the only two people who have read that, too? I think… maybe… I mean, no, that's not… that's not my fare. My friend Matt has also read it.
• 1:56:37
  Michael Torma: There you go, that's 3. But, I remember…
• 1:56:40
  Tad Eggleston: happen… you didn't happen to, to put yours up on the used bookmark, because I think Matt bought his used, so it could still be only two that were… I own mine, too. So if you don't have your copy anymore…
• 1:56:55
  Michael Torma: It might be on there, yeah, yeah, I gotta find my copy of that. I gotta find my novels. I have a box somewhere, it's in there. But yeah, no, like, it's all surreal, you know? Like, I'm trying to think…
• 1:57:10
  Tad Eggleston: I actually made a comment to it, I mean, because, like, the world is on fire right now. Our nation in particular is on fire. I made a comment to somebody recently that, like.
• 1:57:19
  Tad Eggleston: one of the reasons that I have been such an activist, one of the reasons why I have been going nuts to do anything and everything I can to make any part of this world better is, like.
• 1:57:31
  Tad Eggleston: I feel a little guilty, because, like, overall, my life is awesome!
• 1:57:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right? Like, you have this sort of, it's almost like a weird survivor's guilt or something of a…
• 1:57:45
  Michael Torma: of an event, of a current, like, climate that… I don't know. It's…
• 1:57:49
  Michael Torma: Yeah, but I mean, that's a good mentality to have, where you can realize that you have this…
• 1:57:55
  Michael Torma: You have this opportunity, and you have this space, and this power that you should…
• 1:58:00
  Michael Torma: Those with… I always think of the Captain America quote, those with strength help those without, right? Yeah. And I'm sure he took that from somebody else, but I know it from Captain America.
• 1:58:10
  Michael Torma: And.
• 1:58:12
  Tad Eggleston: It's a good place to know it from.
• 1:58:13
  Michael Torma: It's a good place, yeah, yeah. And so I try to… try to think about that, where it's like, okay, yeah, you know, my neighbor might have been a jerk to me, and parked his car in front of my house for…
• 1:58:25
  Michael Torma: 3 or 4 months, but on Christmas Day, you know, when his… when his car… other car was, like, broken down, and he didn't know what to do, and I know a little bit about cars, I went out there to help him, and then my other neighbors came out, and it was a nice… it was a nice, beautiful moment on, Christmas Day, you know? Those with, strength help those without. That's.
• 1:58:43
  Tad Eggleston: But, you know, I mean, if it had broken down on Christmas Eve, you would have said, fuck that guy.
• 1:58:48
  Michael Torma: No. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It was Christmas Eve, though. That guy could suck it, that guy, screw that guy. And if it had been the 26th of November, or December, then really, it would have been, like…
• 1:59:00
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, the Christmas tree. Your car broke down.
• 1:59:02
  Michael Torma: At my house? Who?
• 1:59:04
  Tad Eggleston: Let me come slash your tires, man!
• 1:59:07
  Michael Torma: Right? Let's make sure it doesn't go anywhere!
• 1:59:10
  Michael Torma: Oh… But yeah, no, I, yeah, that's… I try to take that, mentality.
• 1:59:15
  Tad Eggleston: Oh!
• 1:59:16
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes I need to have dark humor.
• 1:59:18
  Michael Torma: You have to. The world is not just lights, it's, shadows, and grays and…
• 1:59:23
  Michael Torma: Hues and tones. Full color. It's full color, yeah. Full color. Yeah.
• 1:59:26
  Tad Eggleston: I actually… when people try to say that the world isn't black and white, it's got shades of gray, I'm like, no, no, no, see, you're still missing out. It's in full color.
• 1:59:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's in color. We got all of it.
• 1:59:39
  Tad Eggleston: Only looking at those shades of gray, you're missing a lot.
• 1:59:43
  Michael Torma: Yeah, you're… you're getting too into the minutiae. Yeah.
• 1:59:48
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, my, required final question.
• 1:59:52
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 1:59:53
  Tad Eggleston: Tell me something you love.
• 1:59:57
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably a comic.
• 1:59:58
  Michael Torma: Okay. But we don't really have rules.
• 2:00:01
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 2:00:02
  Tad Eggleston: But something that you love… That not enough people around you have experienced
• 2:00:09
  Tad Eggleston: And you need them to, because you want more people, To talk about it with.
• 2:00:16
  Michael Torma: Hmm. It could be… it could be anything?
• 2:00:19
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, preferably a comic, but we don't.
• 2:00:21
  Michael Torma: Definitely.
• 2:00:21
  Tad Eggleston: Andrew Iden said his tomato garden.
• 2:00:25
  Tad Eggleston: Many people have put up movies.
• 2:00:29
  Tad Eggleston: I phrase it this way because, like, as much as I love to get that comic recommendation that is actually one that I've never heard of, like, I also know that everybody has a different experience. Like, Nate Powell said, Jonathan Hickman's X-Men.
• 2:00:44
  Tad Eggleston: He's like, I know that that seems really weird, and for, like, most of your listeners, they're like, everybody's talking about that, but I've been in the indie comic scene for.
• 2:00:52
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:00:53
  Tad Eggleston: And I just went back into a shop on a Wednesday for the first time, and I found this, and it's amazing, and my friends don't read.
• 2:01:00
  Michael Torma: Right? I need to talk to somebody who can appreciate Colossus, and Mr. Sinister, and… yeah, the, oh god, what's her name? The… the clone that Mr. Sinister makes of…
• 2:01:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yay.
• 2:01:13
  Michael Torma: Colossus Magic and Rogue, yeah, no, I get that.
• 2:01:15
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, he's like, he's like, I've got lots of friends that will talk to me about Claremont X-Men, but this Hickman era is really cool.
• 2:01:23
  Michael Torma: Good! It's pretty rad!
• 2:01:25
  Tad Eggleston: So that's what I'm saying, is…
• 2:01:27
  Michael Torma: Yeah. It's like…
• 2:01:28
  Tad Eggleston: We're very loose with the rules.
• 2:01:31
  Michael Torma: Of course. Yeah, I… well, you know, besides… I want to try to get into the comic theme of things, so besides, like, my family and my son, who… we just started watching Godzilla movies, and he goes… Like, he… he's a little older than 1, so I'm just excited for the rest of the trip, you know?
• 2:01:51
  Tad Eggleston: One of… one of my son's… I think my son was… 5, maybe 6?
• 2:01:59
  Tad Eggleston: The first time he watched The Matthew Broderick Godzilla, have you seen the Matthew.
• 2:02:04
  Michael Torma: I've seen every Godzilla, yeah.
• 2:02:07
  Tad Eggleston: So, you know the scene?
• 2:02:11
  Tad Eggleston: near the end, where all the eggs are hatching in Madison Square Garden, and they start, like, machine-gunning the Godzillas and the eggs, he starts scream… he's, like, right up at the screen, screaming at it.
• 2:02:25
  Tad Eggleston: You don't shoot Godzilla! Godzilla eats you!
• 2:02:32
  Tad Eggleston: I'm like, I'm like, Jonah, but, like, IT'S THE CIRCLE OF LIFE, DAD!
• 2:02:37
  Michael Torma: It's the circle of life, Dad!
• 2:02:41
  Michael Torma: Your wife needs to make that a t-shirt. Just have the Godzillas eating, like, you know, eating somebody, and it's like, it's a circle of life. Screaming at the TV.
• 2:02:54
  Tad Eggleston: You don't kill Godzilla!
• 2:02:57
  Michael Torma: Which…
• 2:02:58
  Tad Eggleston: in and of itself is great, but Godzilla eats you.
• 2:03:04
  Michael Torma: Like, trying to educate.
• 2:03:06
  Tad Eggleston: It's…
• 2:03:06
  Michael Torma: I sold…
• 2:03:07
  Tad Eggleston: It's not good enough for you not to kill… you're supposed to just offer yourself.
• 2:03:13
  Michael Torma: So, like, it's eaten! Well, everyone has…
• 2:03:14
  Tad Eggleston: as food!
• 2:03:16
  Michael Torma: that Godzilla toy.
• 2:03:17
  Tad Eggleston: Baby Godzilla!
• 2:03:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah! It's… Godzilla is a cooler, you know, more dominant life form, and who's to say, you know, the world wouldn't be better with a pack of Godzillas running around, right?
• 2:03:29
  Tad Eggleston: entirely possible.
• 2:03:30
  Michael Torma: It's entirely possible.
• 2:03:31
  Tad Eggleston: How great have the Godzilla vs. Americas been?
• 2:03:34
  Michael Torma: Oh, they've been phenomenal. I… the… the Godzilla Destroys the Marvel Universe was amazing.
• 2:03:41
  Tad Eggleston: But I, like, the, the, the, the Godzilla versus…
• 2:03:45
  Tad Eggleston: like, Godzilla vs. Chicago, you got Carolyn Cash, Godzilla vs.
• 2:03:49
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:03:50
  Tad Eggleston: Godzilla vs. LA, you got Dave Baker, Jesse Lonergan for Godzilla vs. Boston.
• 2:03:57
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 2:03:58
  Tad Eggleston: I love, I love the decision they made to split between more mainstream and indie cartoonists for those.
• 2:04:07
  Michael Torma: well, you know, have your cake and eat it too, right? Exactly. You know, have your filet mignon and then your cheeseburger, like…
• 2:04:14
  Tad Eggleston: I know, but you and I both know, particularly when it comes to properties.
• 2:04:23
  Tad Eggleston: Being that daring doesn't happen that often.
• 2:04:26
  Michael Torma: No.
• 2:04:27
  Tad Eggleston: For every Mark Russell on Flintstones story, there are 10 stories about, well, if you'd only seen my original script before blank group.
• 2:04:39
  Tad Eggleston: saw it and said, oh no, no, no, no, that character doesn't do that. That character doesn't do that.
• 2:04:47
  Michael Torma: Yeah, there's so many, like, what is it, unused pitches that I can only imagine ended up in filing cabinets and, you know, waste paper bins and, you know, what kind of alternate reality we would have lived in if every comic idea got pushed through.
• 2:05:03
  Tad Eggleston: One-year-old. Wow, so you've had your child since we met.
• 2:05:08
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:05:10
  Michael Torma: Yeah?
• 2:05:11
  Tad Eggleston: how… how… I mean…
• 2:05:13
  Tad Eggleston: I know the obvious part, you've been scared shitless every day for the last year, and you barely slept.
• 2:05:20
  Michael Torma: Right, yeah.
• 2:05:21
  Tad Eggleston: But other than that, how's it been?
• 2:05:24
  Michael Torma: It's been… It's been… it's been amazing. It's…
• 2:05:30
  Michael Torma: You have those moments where, you know, the world is on fire, and everything seems like it's going to, end at any moment, and then you see your little… your little guy, he looks at you, and then.
• 2:05:42
  Tad Eggleston: Is… is he walking yet?
• 2:05:44
  Michael Torma: No, he's really close to walking, but he crawls like the dickens.
• 2:05:48
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Cause, cause, like, Walking's not that scary, but soon after walking comes climbing.
• 2:05:57
  Tad Eggleston: And if you think you've been scared to death for the last year…
• 2:06:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:06:02
  Tad Eggleston: Just wait.
• 2:06:03
  Michael Torma: Because wait! Well, he just figured, he just figured out, climbing the stairs. And he knows how to get up them, and he knows how to get down them, so…
• 2:06:13
  Tad Eggleston: See, say, my grandkids are 6 and 4.
• 2:06:17
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow. And I think it was… I think it was when my granddaughter was 2.
• 2:06:22
  Tad Eggleston: That my son told me that he was having a ton of trouble
• 2:06:26
  Tad Eggleston: Figuring out how to take toys away from her.
• 2:06:29
  Tad Eggleston: Because, initially.
• 2:06:32
  Tad Eggleston: It had been, okay, if this is getting taken away, he'd put it on top of, like, the highest shelf in the living room. I can see where this is going. And then, one day, he does that, and he's, like, in the kitchen…
• 2:06:48
  Tad Eggleston: Making… Dinner or whatnot, and she comes walking in with the toy.
• 2:06:57
  Tad Eggleston: And he's like, did I not?
• 2:06:59
  Tad Eggleston: So, it's like, initially, it's like…
• 2:07:02
  Tad Eggleston: Did I not put it… did it fall down? Blah, blah, blah.
• 2:07:05
  Michael Torma: Wait, did I…
• 2:07:05
  Tad Eggleston: And it is, like, the third time that he actually walks in, and there she is, scaling the bookshelf!
• 2:07:14
  Michael Torma: Well, we're all monkeys at heart, you know? Just climbing those trees, and it makes sense.
• 2:07:20
  Tad Eggleston: No fear whatsoever!
• 2:07:22
  Michael Torma: Nope. She's never fallen before. Why is there anything to be afraid of?
• 2:07:29
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that's… I mean, that's… it's magical, it's wonderful.
• 2:07:32
  Tad Eggleston: So yeah, you got that to look forward to.
• 2:07:35
  Michael Torma: Right, I'm excited, I'm excited.
• 2:07:37
  Tad Eggleston: And once you're less scared about that…
• 2:07:40
  Tad Eggleston: He'll start asking really cool questions.
• 2:07:43
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:07:43
  Tad Eggleston: And things will be AMAZING!
• 2:07:47
  Tad Eggleston: for… Three to five years, depending on how lucky you get.
• 2:07:53
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:07:54
  Tad Eggleston: And then suddenly, you will become the dumbest man on Earth.
• 2:08:00
  Tad Eggleston: Until either he has kids of his own.
• 2:08:04
  Tad Eggleston: or needs to move back, well, no, not even moving back in will generally do it. Kids of his own, or you're helping him move into his own place. Right.
• 2:08:15
  Michael Torma: And that's… that's when I… I seem to be.
• 2:08:16
  Tad Eggleston: That's when suddenly… You will be smart again.
• 2:08:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Oh yeah, Dad is smart. Okay. He knows what he's doing a little bit, I guess.
• 2:08:26
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, my son had my grandson when he was 17, so I went from being the dumbest person in the world to really smart, lightning speed.
• 2:08:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right!
• 2:08:41
  Tad Eggleston: But that's really how it is. The stages of children, at least according to me, are the smelly period.
• 2:08:50
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 2:08:51
  Tad Eggleston: Where you're also scared because they're wiggly, and they seem small and fragile, and if it's your first kid, you don't know that they aren't really small and fragile. I mean, they're small, but they're not that fragile. No. Like, you can drop them, you can dribble them like a basketball, they're fine.
• 2:09:07
  Michael Torma: They're made out of rubble. They'll be fine. Right. Yeah.
• 2:09:10
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:09:10
  Tad Eggleston: But then, just as they actually become fragile, they also become… Fearless and agile.
• 2:09:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Like, like a version of Spider-Man.
• 2:09:26
  Tad Eggleston: You thought it was scary when you were worried about dropping them.
• 2:09:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:09:31
  Michael Torma: They can drop themselves now.
• 2:09:32
  Tad Eggleston: Bye!
• 2:09:35
  Tad Eggleston: And then, they become capable of asking questions, and you're the smartest person in the world. And for a brief period, like I said, generally 3 years, if you're lucky, 5. If you're ridiculously lucky, maybe 7.
• 2:09:52
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 2:09:53
  Michael Torma: But there comes a time.
• 2:09:54
  Tad Eggleston: It's, like, amazing. And then they figure out that they can say no, and the world won't end.
• 2:10:01
  Michael Torma: So… So you're saying…
• 2:10:04
  Tad Eggleston: does.
• 2:10:05
  Michael Torma: Yeah, so high-end, when they can say no.
• 2:10:09
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:10:10
  Michael Torma: I become the.
• 2:10:10
  Tad Eggleston: When they figure out that they can say no, And…
• 2:10:17
  Tad Eggleston: Either there won't really be consequences, or let's face it, the consequences are laughable.
• 2:10:22
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:10:23
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I know I'm gonna be, I already spoiled.
• 2:10:25
  Tad Eggleston: You're gonna stare me down to eat my peas? Fine. I'll stare you down.
• 2:10:29
  Michael Torma: I do not eat my bees. I have nothing to do, Dad.
• 2:10:32
  Tad Eggleston: Just as bad for you, Dad, as it is for me, only I'm having fun with it, because I don't have to go to work tomorrow.
• 2:10:42
  Tad Eggleston: I just have to wake up, I just have to go to bed, that's it. Right.
• 2:10:45
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:10:46
  Tad Eggleston: You want to send me to bed without my dinner? Hey! I didn't want to eat my dinner anyway! That was the fight we were having!
• 2:10:53
  Michael Torma: God.
• 2:10:54
  Michael Torma: Sounds great, you know, maybe I can, you know, change my mind? No, no.
• 2:10:59
  Michael Torma: Can we do a reverse?
• 2:11:02
  Michael Torma: Yeah, I… besides that, if you want a deep cut, from the Torma Archive.
• 2:11:11
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, let's get a deep cut from the tournament.
• 2:11:12
  Michael Torma: What's one that I always like to recommend to people?
• 2:11:17
  Michael Torma: Have you… have you checked out Johnny Future? Did you ever read that?
• 2:11:21
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know if I know that.
• 2:11:23
  Michael Torma: Let me… here, give me one second.
• 2:11:27
  Tad Eggleston: did Johnny Future?
• 2:11:28
  Michael Torma: Johnny Future I hadn't heard about it, for a while.
• 2:11:35
  Michael Torma: And I didn't know about it until…
• 2:11:38
  Michael Torma: This is probably… I don't have the receipt in here.
• 2:11:43
  Michael Torma: When did this come out? When did I get this?
• 2:11:45
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, which… which one? Because it looks like there's… there's a one… oh…
• 2:11:51
  Michael Torma: Is this 2020?
• 2:11:53
  Michael Torma: It might have been 2020, no, this is the, like…
• 2:11:55
  Tad Eggleston: 60s British superhero?
• 2:11:58
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 2:11:59
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, okay.
• 2:12:00
  Tad Eggleston: So, so, you know what else I just discovered?
• 2:12:04
  Michael Torma: What's that? One of…
• 2:12:05
  Tad Eggleston: one of the characters in Tom Strong's Terrific Tales.
• 2:12:10
  Tad Eggleston: Is Johnny, J-O-N-N-I, future?
• 2:12:14
  Michael Torma: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 2:12:16
  Tad Eggleston: So, we just found out somebody who likes Johnny Future. Not that that's surprising, because he's definitely an aficionado of…
• 2:12:26
  Michael Torma: Bridgetown.
• 2:12:27
  Tad Eggleston: 60s British comics.
• 2:12:29
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Well, so, the baseline.
• 2:12:31
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I've been really happy with some of the stuff Rebellion's been putting out lately.
• 2:12:35
  Michael Torma: Dude, yeah, Rebellion's amazing. No, so…
• 2:12:39
  Michael Torma: Essentially, Johnny Future is the story of… it's the Incredible Hulk gets turned into Superman, right? Okay. It's the missing link, rampaging throughout, you know.
• 2:12:50
  Michael Torma: England, throughout the city, and he gets to a, nuclear power plant, gets blasted with more radiation, and it gives him more powers, intelligence, and he becomes, you know, your prototypical 60s Superman doing whatever he can do, sci-fi character.
• 2:13:06
  Michael Torma: It's bonkers, it's batshit, and I… I love it. I…
• 2:13:12
  Michael Torma: I love it because it feels like a comic from another reality, you know?
• 2:13:18
  Michael Torma: Where you have…
• 2:13:20
  Michael Torma: like, this… what could have been the Incredible Hulk, what could have been Superman if, like, Marvel and DC were under the same banners, you know?
• 2:13:29
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 2:13:30
  Michael Torma: That one's really, really killer. Monsters?
• 2:13:35
  Michael Torma: That came out a few years ago.
• 2:13:37
  Tad Eggleston: The… the… the…
• 2:13:39
  Michael Torma: Barry Windsor some…
• 2:13:40
  Tad Eggleston: Did you see that Fanographics is collecting his Marvel stuff?
• 2:13:45
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13:48
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, I've been trying to cut back on everything that I, everything that I buy.
• 2:13:56
  Tad Eggleston: Meaning you have to pay for children?
• 2:13:59
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:13:59
  Michael Torma: It's basically, I had to choose this child for comic books, and I…
• 2:14:05
  Tad Eggleston: This is why I know so little about comics between 2001 and, like, 2000… 12.
• 2:14:14
  Michael Torma: But you could tell me all about, you know, baby formula and stuff, I'm sure.
• 2:14:18
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:14:19
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Yeah, I need to… I wanna get the.
• 2:14:23
  Tad Eggleston: My biggest…
• 2:14:24
  Michael Torma: And I'm looking at it now.
• 2:14:25
  Tad Eggleston: Here is my biggest piece of advice for you as a geek parent.
• 2:14:30
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:14:32
  Tad Eggleston: Do not show them anything that you're not willing to watch 10 times in a weekend.
• 2:14:38
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 2:14:40
  Michael Torma: Okay. So no…
• 2:14:43
  Michael Torma: Well, actually, yeah, I'll show them Tremors when they're old enough. I love that movie. Tremors is so good.
• 2:14:49
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, like…
• 2:14:50
  Michael Torma: But, like, they'll want to watch it over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
• 2:14:54
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly when you're picking… I mean, by the time they can see Tremors, they might be through it, but when you're picking out which kids' movies to introduce them to, don't go, I kinda liked this one, let's watch this, because that will be the one… I mean, you will, at times, have to lose… well, actually, we're in the streaming age, but I used to have to lose DVDs.
• 2:15:17
  Michael Torma: Lose. So you didn't have to watch anyway.
• 2:15:20
  Tad Eggleston: For short periods of time.
• 2:15:22
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:15:23
  Tad Eggleston: in movies I, like… I love Oliver and Company.
• 2:15:26
  Michael Torma: Why not?
• 2:15:27
  Tad Eggleston: it until I watched it, like, 5 times a weekend, every weekend for 6 months.
• 2:15:33
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Well, we…
• 2:15:34
  Tad Eggleston: Because it was the only movie they wanted to watch, and they would throw a fit if I suggested anything else.
• 2:15:41
  Michael Torma: Yep. We, we babysat our mistake! Our nephew. Yeah.
• 2:15:45
  Tad Eggleston: of introducing them… my son, to Star Wars.
• 2:15:49
  Michael Torma: -Oh.
• 2:15:50
  Tad Eggleston: with…
• 2:15:54
  Tad Eggleston: The prequels.
• 2:15:55
  Michael Torma: BEFORE…
• 2:15:57
  Tad Eggleston: Before Revenge of the Sith came out.
• 2:16:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:16:01
  Tad Eggleston: Not only did I have to watch.
• 2:16:03
  Tad Eggleston: Phantom Menace, and particularly Attack of the Clones, way more than I wanted to, because I'd have to, like, bargain with them. It's like, okay, we've watched Attack of the Clones 3 times, can we watch Return of the Jedi once?
• 2:16:15
  Michael Torma: Please, please.
• 2:16:17
  Tad Eggleston: If I promise that we can watch Phantom Menace afterwards, can we watch Empire Strikes Back?
• 2:16:23
  Michael Torma: Right. I've eaten so much Brussels sprouts and broccoli, can I have a slice of pizza? Please, give me something.
• 2:16:29
  Tad Eggleston: But then the killer was, he was 5 when Phantom Menace came out, which is the only Star Wars movie that shouldn't be watched by a 5-year-old.
• 2:16:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, that's true. If I'm thinking about it, like…
• 2:16:42
  Michael Torma: Well, I mean, the Qui-Gon Jinn death is pretty scary.
• 2:16:47
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but it's not bloody.
• 2:16:49
  Michael Torma: No. Yeah.
• 2:16:53
  Michael Torma: Yeah!
• 2:16:53
  Tad Eggleston: Between the fact that you have Anakin, who was his hero.
• 2:16:58
  Michael Torma: Oh, well, yeah.
• 2:16:59
  Tad Eggleston: Slaughtering little kids.
• 2:17:01
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:17:02
  Tad Eggleston: And then you have Anakin?
• 2:17:04
  Michael Torma: Who was his hero?
• 2:17:08
  Tad Eggleston: On fire? Graphically?
• 2:17:11
  Michael Torma: Yeah, burning alive? Yeah.
• 2:17:15
  Michael Torma: Probably not the best one, probably not, yeah.
• 2:17:18
  Tad Eggleston: Like, George, seriously, there's been no blood in Star Wars!
• 2:17:21
  Michael Torma: Yeah, like, why not?
• 2:17:23
  Tad Eggleston: The only blood we had at all was Ponda Baba's arm on the floor.
• 2:17:29
  Tad Eggleston: And he didn't even have blood on his stump!
• 2:17:32
  Michael Torma: No.
• 2:17:33
  Tad Eggleston: It was just the arm on the floor!
• 2:17:35
  Michael Torma: I got quarterlies. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:17:36
  Tad Eggleston: Trump was caught her!
• 2:17:38
  Michael Torma: That's how you know it really hurt, if the arm on the floor had blood on it, you know?
• 2:17:45
  Michael Torma: Done.
• 2:17:47
  Michael Torma: But yeah, I look forward to that.
• 2:17:49
  Michael Torma: Yep.
• 2:17:50
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, yeah. And then, and then, and then, actually… I do have… a teenager.
• 2:17:57
  Tad Eggleston: Are you… I assume you're a big music guy.
• 2:18:01
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:18:01
  Tad Eggleston: because, I mean, A, who isn't? But… but B, like…
• 2:18:07
  Tad Eggleston: If you're gonna be a geek already…
• 2:18:09
  Tad Eggleston: Skipping music entirely just seems weird.
• 2:18:12
  Michael Torma: Yeah. Just makes you a weirdo, come on.
• 2:18:15
  Tad Eggleston: Your kid will wind up liking stuff that you don't like.
• 2:18:18
  Michael Torma: Yeah. That's a given.
• 2:18:20
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:18:21
  Tad Eggleston: You don't stop this by banning it.
• 2:18:23
  Tad Eggleston: You absolutely don't stop this by trying to tell him
• 2:18:28
  Tad Eggleston: That your music is better, or trying to make him listen to you music, or whatever.
• 2:18:33
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:18:34
  Tad Eggleston: The way you stop it… Is just play your music.
• 2:18:39
  Michael Torma: Hmm.
• 2:18:40
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 2:18:41
  Michael Torma: Just power through, just put it on, like…
• 2:18:44
  Tad Eggleston: Just put it on.
• 2:18:45
  Michael Torma: Okay.
• 2:18:46
  Tad Eggleston: All the time.
• 2:18:47
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:18:48
  Tad Eggleston: If he wants to listen to something else in his room, fine.
• 2:18:50
  Tad Eggleston: But, like, I told… I, I, I… bef…
• 2:18:54
  Tad Eggleston: It feels like another lifetime. I ran music departments at Best Buy back when Best Buy was where you bought your CDs.
• 2:19:01
  Michael Torma: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 2:19:03
  Tad Eggleston: And I had a guy who was in buying whatever rap album for his son that he couldn't believe he was buying, and I was like, you know, this one's not bad, but this is what you do. And I told him. Yeah. He's like, I don't know. And, like, a week later, he comes in…
• 2:19:19
  Tad Eggleston: And, God, did he sell this well, because he looked furious, he's like, I took your advice. I'm like, -oh. He's like, yeah, my son was playing that…
• 2:19:28
  Tad Eggleston: stupid…
• 2:19:29
  Tad Eggleston: And I went, I'm gonna put on some chimney. And his music got louder, so I made my music louder. I'm like, well, that's not actually what I said to do.
• 2:19:38
  Michael Torma: Yeah, right?
• 2:19:39
  Tad Eggleston: His music got louder, and I turned mine up. And his music got louder, so I turned mine up some more.
• 2:19:47
  Tad Eggleston: And I'm like, shit, is he gonna tell my manager, or am I getting fired today?
• 2:19:52
  Tad Eggleston: And suddenly his music goes off, and I hear…
• 2:19:56
  Tad Eggleston: stomping down the stairs. I'm like, please tell me this isn't going somewhere horrible.
• 2:20:00
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:20:01
  Tad Eggleston: He sticks his head into my office, and he says.
• 2:20:03
  Tad Eggleston: What is this, Dad? It's pretty cool.
• 2:20:12
  Michael Torma: What is this? See, that's… that's the moment that I…
• 2:20:15
  Tad Eggleston: Music speaks for itself.
• 2:20:16
  Michael Torma: Yeah.
• 2:20:17
  Tad Eggleston: sell it, it becomes uncool.
• 2:20:19
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:20:19
  Tad Eggleston: you're uncool.
• 2:20:21
  Michael Torma: Because you're trying to, yeah, dad is old.
• 2:20:23
  Tad Eggleston: Just because you're uncool.
• 2:20:24
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:20:25
  Tad Eggleston: Because you're trying her, you're uncool. So if you sell it, It's not cool.
• 2:20:30
  Michael Torma: Right.
• 2:20:31
  Tad Eggleston: They will turn off their ears, it doesn't matter what you play for them, it sucks.
• 2:20:36
  Michael Torma: Yeah, it's bad. But if you just explained. But you're listening to it, yeah.
• 2:20:39
  Tad Eggleston: You just play it. And actually start now. Make certain that any time you're in the car, you're playing your music.
• 2:20:45
  Tad Eggleston: If there's kids music you like, great, but I don't understand how Rafi made a dollar, because…
• 2:20:52
  Tad Eggleston: Kids don't give a shit about what music's playing.
• 2:20:56
  Michael Torma: Right. Yeah.
• 2:20:57
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely not in the car. You don't have to put a kid's music tape on on the car. If you like Led Zeppelin and you're driving to the grocery store, you play Led Zeppelin.
• 2:21:07
  Michael Torma: Yeah! Just let it rang a little bit. I… what have I… what have I been listening to? I've been listening to a lot of, like, Doom… Doom and stoner metal recently.
• 2:21:17
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 2:21:18
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, one of the coolest moments of my life was when I realized that my kids were singing Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers in the backseat.
• 2:21:26
  Michael Torma: It's amazing.
• 2:21:27
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. We're just driving. Yeah. We're just driving, and suddenly I realize that…
• 2:21:33
  Tad Eggleston: It was… The Last DJ was the new album.
• 2:21:37
  Michael Torma: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:21:38
  Tad Eggleston: At the time, and it was actually that song that they were singing, so that song's playing, and I suddenly realized that my daughter's singing, like, every word. She's like…
• 2:21:46
  Tad Eggleston: Five.
• 2:21:50
  Tad Eggleston: And she's singing every word of that song, and admittedly, there's some words in that song that maybe it would have been better if she wasn't singing, but whatever!
• 2:21:56
  Michael Torma: It's okay.
• 2:21:59
  Tad Eggleston: And my son, who's, like, 2,
• 2:22:03
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so I'm hearing my daughter, there goes the last DJ, and my son will chime in, DJ! DJ!
• 2:22:14
  Michael Torma: And see, now… and that's a beautiful family moment, right? Yeah. I hope to have that one day. I hope to have that.
• 2:22:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm certain you'll have all sorts of family moments. I congratulate you and your wife. Have a blast. I can't wait to hear more stories. For Michael Torma, this has been 22 Panels. We will see you after the next page.