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ADHD IN PROFESSIONALS · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hi everyone, Thank you so much, everyone, for joining ADHDtime on Air. Today we're going to be talking about a book that I just finished in prep, and it's ADHD in professionals. And we're going to be talking with Dr. B. She's the author about this of this book. I'm hoping we get to talk a bit about embracing our ADHD brains as professionals. and a little bit about how to shift our mindset from this discussion of deficit base to strength base and all these other amazing things she brought up in the book. and I'll let her introduce herself better than I did. Dr B: Thank you. Thank you so much. So, my name is Dr. Jenny Byrne. I'm a psychiatrist and a neuroscientist by training. And I live in North Carolina, did all my training in New York City and my career has circled around human brain and behavior ever since I was in college. and currently been focusing a lot more on ADHD, which is something actually did my PhD on attention so many years ago, and been a couple decades of working with folks with ADHD. So full disclosure, I do not have ADHD myself. I do have a kiddo who is a neurodivergent kid. so I've seen the lived experience part more from the parent side. so I always like to preface with that just so you know. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love it that the disclosure is that you don't have. Like I come into rooms and I have to Dr B: Ha ha Daniella Karidi, PhD: disclose that I have if in neurodiversity. And I love it that you're like, hey, I have a this little disclosure. I'm the the weird one out here. I don't have it. I Dr B: Right. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I you just won me over by that. I will say that I can relate also to the fact that I did my PhD also on ADHD and it also is a long time ago. but I want to ask you to start with what inspired you in writing this book? Dr B: Yeah, I got inspired. This is my third book, and I like I mentioned at the beginning, when I first moved to North Carolina decades ago, I had a psychiatry practice pretty traditional, and UNC, University of North Carolina, is like five minutes away, and they started sending me students, professors, doctors, lawyers who had ADHD because at the time they actually decided they didn't want to treat it at all. So I very quickly realized I better learn how to treat adult ADHD. So I educated myself and went to conferences and things like that. that was you know, 20 years ago. So I went and did a lot of other things. Fast forward, I opened a new practice that's pretty non-traditional about a year ago, and I was very dismayed to see the amount of stigma and misinformation that was still out there. And I felt like maybe even worse when it came to professionals than it was. 20 years ago. So I wanted to write a book to get good quality information out there and make it a little less academic. I really wanted to tell stories and let stories of people I've worked with or people I interviewed for the book really make it a little more narrative and a little less academic so that people could hopefully see themselves in the stories and maybe not just what it's like to survive with ADHD, but how to thrive with ADHD. Daniella Karidi, PhD: What's telling stories so important? Dr B: Well, if you like to geek out on the science, which I'm guessing you do, human brains are very wired to respond to stories. We respond to data, and certain kinds of brains like data more than others, but in general, storytelling is really critical and it's often where we feel the most connected. And there's even been some neuroscience studies showing when you tell a story that your brain lights up and oscillates in sync with the person that's listening to the story. And I find that fascinating. And one of the reasons I learned how to write books, I'm an avid reader as well, and I really wanted to learn, I mean, I knew the data part, but I really wanted to learn how to tell the story. So I think stories are just really powerful. And sometimes the books on ADHD that are high quality tend to be a little academic and maybe not have that narrative like resonating story part. Daniella Karidi, PhD: What do think currently, between the social media and everything that's going on in the world, what do you think currently people are getting wrong about ADHD? Dr B: gosh, a lot of things. the first is we all have ADHD. I hear that one sometimes. And then I also hear there's no such thing as ADHD. So I hear both. Daniella Karidi, PhD: great. Dr B: yes, the modern world has changed the way all human brains pay attention, but I do believe that ADHD is something different. It is, I believe, a brain variant, which is why I say ADHD is a terrible name. I don't like the disorder name. I think it's a brain variant. We think it's five to ten percent of the human population. So I think that's one big myth. So yes, it does exist. maybe thinking about it as a disorder is not the most helpful way to always think about it, which is why I took more of a strength-based approach. I know that's kind of debated. and then some of the other big debates I see out there are around medication. And there's a reason for that. It's a historical reason because the medicines, some of the medicines that are used to treat ADHD are stimulants, which are controlled substances by the DEA. So they're actually policed medications. So there's a lot of stigma and misunderstanding out there about these medications, which I feel like gets in the way. and then finally I would say as it relates to professionals, I've heard so many times this quote, you know, people seek ADHD evaluation and are told, you're too high functioning to have ADHD. And it's so sad when people get that message from a trusted primary care, trusted therapist. And these folks aren't trying to be malicious or mean. It's just they really actually don't know. And so they're accidentally giving out misinformation, which is really invalidating and worsening the struggle of the professional with ADHD. Daniella Karidi, PhD: A hundred percent to everything you said. I hate the name, and I think it doesn't represent the condition. And I felt that you wrote that very clearly in a very easy way to follow in the book. I also diagnosed with dyslexia and people are like, How can you be dyslectic and be a reader? And I'm like, Well, the fact that I have a challenge reading doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing something that's hard. so I think that sometimes people think that. that because you can do something and even do it well, it doesn't mean that you didn't have other obstacles on the way. Mm-hmm. Dr B: Or that it comes at a cost. I think that's the other big learning I've had over the years is, you know, high-achieving professionals with ADHD. On the surface, maybe things actually look okay at work, you know, like they're doctors and lawyers and CEOs and entrepreneurs and professors. And so on the surface, things maybe look okay. But what's behind all that is the tremendous amount of effort and strain and sometimes anxiety-fueled. coping strategies that are exhausting. And sometimes people are putting in all this effort at work just to appear like, you know, neurotypical or or successful. And then they don't have anything left when they go home. And then they actually really are struggling at home with their relationships or their friends or family or being a parent. And it's really sad because they're sacrificing one just to kind of cope or mask or get along at work and they're really missing out on like that richness of life. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. I like the metaphor of the duck with the that you know on the surface it looks like everything's going okay, but when you look under their legs are going like crazy just to keep them afloat. and I feel that a lot of my solo entrepreneurs that I work with are exactly like Dr B: Hm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: that. They you know, from the outside, from behind the camera, from behind the presentation or the the relationship with the client, everything looks good, but underneath there's a storm. Dr B: Yeah, and sometimes that storm looks emotional. Sometimes the storm is just physical exhaustion. Literally they're just exhausted. sometimes the storm is relationships. Like I said, they're feel like they're letting their family down. They feel like they're a bad friend. so it can kind of show up in different ways for different people depending on the situation. Daniella Karidi, PhD: 100%. I I I saw in the book you had a reference of about work accommodations. And I know I'm skipping like you won't believe, but we're going to question thirteen, but let's go with the flow. Dr B: Ha ha ha Daniella Karidi, PhD: so tell me a bit about that concept of adult professional work accommodations. Dr B: Yeah, I think it's really an interesting topic, and that's why you know we use the term disorder, because in our current culture, if you want to advocate to get accommodations in the workplace, you actually have to have a disability, right? So it's this weird circular logic that we have. So that's kind of why we have this disorder name or this disability this idea of a disability. So When it comes to the workplace and accommodations, I think what's fascinating, and this was actually in my my first book was on the workplace and kind of the new workplace and post-pandemic, there's some things which help ADHD brains, which actually help everybody. And so I don't even know if they should be called accommodations. They should probably just be the way we work together. and some of those things include normalizing the need for movement in our day, like sitting down at a chair looking at a screen all day long is not a natural human behavior and it's very rough on our brain and on our body. So normalizing movement, whether that's, you know, if you're working virtually, turn off the video, walk around the room just listening, whether that's if you're in person at conference room, letting people stand up during meetings, whether that's taking walks, having a walking meeting, you know, there's a lot of different ways to incorporate movement back into the workday. So yeah, that could be an accommodation that would help a restless ADHD person, but actually that probably would be helpful for everybody. So there's some things like movement. I think having the ability to work in a distraction-free or kind of minimally distracted environment. Most people benefit from that, right? Like most brains, if you put them in cubicles with a ton of noise and people walking around, and it is actually difficult to get into deep work. So that would probably help everybody. being very clear about how you work best and what communication style works for you. I do better with written, or I do better with audio, or I do better with you know frequent check-ins, with short messages. Like if we all did that, it would probably help us. So those are some common examples of accommodations for ADHD brains, which I actually think help everybody. some of the more specific accommodations that can help with ADHD at work include breaking down very long complicated things into small steps, making things visual is often very helpful for ADHD, making sure that the workspace that they're in has the right visual stimuli in it, and that might mean important things or sticky notes all over their computer, and that's fine. You know, that's actually what they need. So I think the tricky part for professionals, because they are high achieving, they want to be perceived as high achieving and highly effective and really efficient and high performers. And so even just asking for an accommodation is almost like saying, I'm not high achieving, I'm not high performing. And so they hesitate to ask. And it's true, there are some workplaces that would probably penalize them for that. maybe subconsciously, but it is true. I I I think a lot of workplaces would penalize you for asking for help. So when I talk to managers and leaders and HR people who want to do the right thing, but they don't know what to day you know, do. I mean, you don't someone doesn't have to disclose to you they have ADHD for you to be a good manager and for you to try to figure out what works for them, right? Like they don't have to tell you, I have a disability for you to figure out what's gonna help them be successful. So I I don't necessarily recommend everybody go out and disclose to everybody at their workplace, hey, I have whatever, disability or condition, because it's true, it's not always a safe place to do it. but I do think within the, you know, construct of a good manager relationship, you know, there's a lot you can do without having to disclose it as well. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I I appreciate that breakdown and and I would add that sometimes we when we think about the accommodations, we think about kind of like in school where there needs to be a written plan and there needs to be approval, but at the workplace we have sometimes more flexibility. Dr B: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And accommodations don't have to be as black and white sometimes, depending obviously on the work environment and the job and the d but sometimes something that might help you, it could be a rule that will benefit everyone, as you said. I'm a big user of audiobooks and audio information. And when I started using a lot of this voice recognition and things like that, I was that weird person in the room. when I was doing my dissertation, I had to go and cut books and scan them and then have the computer Dr B: Hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: read them back to me because they weren't audio versions of the books. I still do that by the way, sometimes if needed. But then it was like I had to go to a special place to scan it. Now everyone can scan everywhere. Some of these technologies that were extreme accommodations for me and like having everything in a PDF, not only in a paper, like but also digital. Now I you can't get a paper copy sometimes. So that's important to remember too. What you might be asking now as an employee might be a standard for everyone in a few years. Dr B: Yeah, and I normally challenge people, you know, sometimes there's like a gut reaction of like, well, I can't do it differently, or well, everyone has to work from nine to five, or everyone has to sit in their chair, or everyone, you know, there's just kind of this like reaction to what our mental model of work is. And I always try to remember people, and again, this is in the first book, this all just comes from the Ford Factory back in the early 1900s. Before that, work was entirely different. So we had this idea of work. as this kind of factory floor model, right? Where you have a conveyor belt and you people are like widgets doing things on the conveyor belt and everybody has to do it this way. But that's really just a construct that we came up with in the 1900s when it made sense. And it probably doesn't really make sense anymore to do things that way, but we still have that like mental model. And most people don't even know where it came from. They just assume it's always been like that. So I always challenge people to say, well, do you really have to do it that way? Like Why? Like if you can come up with a good reason, great. But if there's no good reason, then well you don't have to there's no law that says everyone has to work this way all the time, right? Like we're putting this on ourselves. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes, a hundred percent. And then in the book you also kind of have an discussion about solar entrepreneurs, people that kind of work by themselves and I really appreciated that insight. Can you share a bit with my audience a bit of the differences that you think about adjusting your work when you have ADHD and you're like working from home or you're a solar entrepreneur? Dr B: Yeah, it's kind of funny because being a solopreneur is like a great fit in some ways for an ADHD brain, right? You can be creative and nimble and flexible and kind of have a lot of brilliant ideas that you chase down and so it's a great fit in some ways. But if you're a solopreneur, that also means you're your own boss. So that also means in addition to being a person with an ADHD type brain, you're the boss of a person with an ADHD type brain. And you have to manage that person because you're your own boss. So it's kind of this funny split perspective where you really have to almost step outside and look at yourself as an employee and say, this employee has an ADHD brain. Clearly, they need support on X, Y, and Z. What's the best way to support them? Right? Is it do we get contracted help? Do we get an assistant? Do we use AI? Like, what are we gonna do to help this employee, even though it's it it's you? So it's kind of this funny situation where you're your own boss. So you kind of have to manage yourself as somebody with an ADHD brain. but like I said, it's it actually could be a wonderful fit for ADHD. you can work the hours sometimes you want to work. If you're an ADHD person with a shifted circadian rhythm, which is very common, you know, maybe you work until two in the morning and you sleep late. I mean, who says you can't do that as a solopreneur? So it's a great opportunity, but you do have to manage yourself. And that requires like another executive functioning set of skills that you may struggle with. And so that's where coaching and others can sometimes really help you if you're a solopreneur. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I would add that all of that is true for my ADHD clients that are in retirement. my ADHDs that are in retirement talk about Dr B: Yes, yes. Daniella Karidi, PhD: the hardest part of retirement is that they're ever they're every day is there's no day off. Every day is kind of the same. You suddenly don't have that week work and a weekend. And you suddenly become your honor your boss of your time, or you and your spouse suddenly are the bosses of your schedule. And if you prefer lived in a structured work environment and now you lose that. You need to build new strategies and you need to kind of remember to manage yourself suddenly. Dr B: Big I I work with a lot of folks in that situation, male and female, but I see a lot of trouble with the male, super high powered, successful ADHD Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dr B: brain who had a very structured workplace, probably had a secretary and an assistant and a team, and everybody made sure it was, you know, going well. And then they went home and they had a a spouse, a partner who was also taking care of the house, and it was very structured, and they were like thrive. I mean, they did great. And then they stop working and the work structure's completely gone and then the home structure is just upended. And they can really struggle. I see huge struggles in that group. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, that that those are my those are my most common clients. And I I find that surprisingly people are like, what do we need diagnosing at that age or why do we need coaching? And this is where I'm like, my gosh, there is Dr B: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: no age limit to diagnosing ADHD. And I'd love to hear Dr B: No. Daniella Karidi, PhD: your insight about the idea of the whole concept of late diagnosis, but also the concept of age limits or no age limits to diagnosing ADHD. Dr B: I mean, our understanding of ADHD again, it's a type of brain. You're born with it and you're gonna die with it. We there's no pill that you're gonna take that it's gonna at least that we have right now, right, that's gonna change that. So it's a chronic lifelong brain. And life will change typically. The fa life has phases. You know, you have childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, rush hour of life if you Have kids and a busy job and you're building a career and then you have this like semi-retirement and so life has phases and your physical health has phases. And this shows up in women a lot, right? With estrogen levels changing and that really impacting their ADHD. So life is going to impact your ADHD. So it is a lifelong journey. And you know, there may be times in life where somebody's really in a good flow, they've got a good work environment, good home. And maybe they don't need a lot of ADHD support. And then maybe their health declines, or they go into menopause, or they're taking care of their parents and their kids, and something life has thrown a whole bunch of stuff at them, and then you need more support. So I really like people to think about ADHD diagnosis as something that can help you at any stage. And whether that the treatment is medicine, I know that there's a lot of debate about medicine. I'm a physician, so I do prescribe medicine for ADHD. I think it's a great tool. But just because you took it one point in life doesn't mean you're gonna need it later. Or just because this medicine helped you here doesn't mean it's gonna help you there. So I always tell people it's important to know what kind of brain you have, regardless of whether you're ever gonna take medicine or go to therapy, because it's your brain. It's gonna be with you and it's gonna change as your life goes on. And like if you understand your brain, you really have the opportunity to thrive. If you don't understand your brain, you're gonna you know, often waste a lot of time and energy and just be spinning your wheels and sometimes feel quite miserable. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I I I I find that that very true. the saying that if you don't manage your ADHD is gonna manage you. I think that Dr B: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: knowing knowing your your brain is true from whatever even neurotypical brains can benefit Dr B: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: from the insights of understanding the way they learn, the way they think, the way they thrive, the what they struggle with. and that brings me to a debate that I hear a lot. Between the ADHD superpowers, the strengths like making ADHD sound like this magical ability versus people that only focus on the negativity and the challenges of ADHD. And I know in the book you really try to, but and I know I didn't do this before, but I should show you guys Dr B: Ha ha Daniella Karidi, PhD: my ADHD brain. Look at that. so for the people that see on the screen, I'm holding the book, and those that are listening, I'm holding ADHD in professionals immersing. your brain and there's there's really nice circles on it and it's a hardcover. and it's not too big, it's perfect size to those of like and so for those that are wondering and and I strongly recommend if you're an ADHD professional to read it or listen to it, whatever way you get information. but I'm circling back to my question. strengths versus weaknesses or the combo of both. What are your thinking? Superpowers, not superpower. Dr B: In the same way that I don't like the word disability or disorder, I don't love the superpower either, because it reality, like different brains do better in different environments and situations. So an ADHD brain in some environments may be amazing. So for example, you know, Tom Hartman's idea that hunters were ADHD brains, because that was so helpful to be alert and sensitive and quick to change. Or with the physicians I work with. most of them are in the emergency room, the operating room, the intensive care units, where and their skills are amazing there. Like their ADHD brain just thrives. Same brain in another environment doesn't do well. So it's not so much the one brain is better than the other, super powered over another. It's just that it's more adaptive to one environment versus another. and then I know there's a debate about common Traits of ADHD brains like creativity, creative problem solving. And I know my colleague, Dr. James Wiley, we had a big debate about this last year. He really feels that given the amount of medical issues and things with ADHD that we shouldn't say superpower. And if you're creative and you have ADHD, great, but there are people without ADHD who are creative, and there are people with ADHD who aren't creative. So he's like, I don't even like those to go together. I still feel like there's it's helpful to see what traits are often correlated with an ADHD type brain, just so that you can query yourself and say, is creativity a strength of mine? If it is a strength of mine, how can I lean into that at work or at home? How can I use that as a strength if it is something that is a strength? So I I think I'm a little bit more of a like strength and weaknesses depending on your environment. And you like for example, you mentioned listening to things as opposed to reading. So in my brain, which is not an ADHD brain, I have the worst time listening to things. I I recall very little if I just have to listen. And so when I was in med school, it was a real problem because everything was lectures. we didn't have all the digital resources and everything. So everything was very lecture based or textbook. And I remember back then We had to have scribes, literally s other students, we would rotate amongst ourselves to take really detailed notes for the class and then we would photocopy them and hand them out. And you'd pay like, I don't know, a little bit of money to your friends, and we would do that. And that really helped me, because I really needed the written component and not just the audio. So in my brain, sitting in the lecture hall was not at its best, right? Like, but if I could Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Dr B: listen and then have somebody hand me the notes. So now when I do things like today's interview I use an AI scribe to transcribe Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Dr B: for me and then I have a verbal you know written record of what you and I are talking about and then I can be here with you and be very focused on our conversation and I also have my robot taking my notes so later on I can go back and say, wait, did I talk about something? So I think all brains have things they're really good at or not and learning about yourself and what your brain is good at is really the key. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I I think that I, for instance, learned that I need to listen to audio in a very high speed. So just to clarify, Dr B: Hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I'm listening to books like 2.2, 2.5, like really, really quick. so if I'm listening to some of these lectures, I I I s even though I'm an auditory processing preferred person, if they're a slow speaker, I will be struggling almost as the Dr B: Hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: same as someone that is not an auditory processor, because it's not just auditory components, it's also the speed of the information that's being presented. And I think that understanding Dr B: Fascinating. Daniella Karidi, PhD: that it's a complex concept and our brains are very complex. As a memory researcher, I I I'm emphasize every time as like people say, I remember all the time where I'm forgetful, I'm like, wait, wait, this is such a complex concept. We can't be just one or two. There's layers in it. So understanding your brain and its complexity will help anyone. And figuring out like Not only what kind of learner you are, but in different environments, or what kind of worker you are, but in different environments, is really helpful. Dr B: Yeah, I'm glad you I'm I was gonna say one more thing on that topic of memory. I'm glad you brought that up Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. Dr B: because a lot of people say, I'm forgetful, I have ADHD, I can't remember anything. and I actually again, personally, I have trouble with certain kinds of recall. So what I've seen in ADHD, for example, a lot of people it their memory is fine. They just are not attending to the stimuli. So it's actually not even getting in their working memory in the first place. So it's not that the memory or the recall is the problem, it's the attention filter. So that nothing whereas for me in my brain, I get stuff in, but the way I put it together in my memory bank is not linear. It's a it's a different way. And so I for me to recall information, I have to go about in a certain way. So we're you know, again, we're all different and forget f p you're right, forgetfulness is a very generic term. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. But but in in general, when we think about these complexities of in of stuff of of our brain and our our learning and our working and our relationships and all solutions are also have to be complex. And I think sometimes we go to those like easy hacks we see on social media or those easy solutions and we don't go deeper into really thinking about our strengths and weaknesses and how we can use them to benefit. And you bring up in the book, some five strengths in in and some stories related to them. Can you help me kind of like tell my audience about those strengths and that you give as examples? Dr B: gosh, now I'm have to recall all of the things I wrote. I may forget one. one of Daniella Karidi, PhD: I have the book. Dr B: okay, good, good, good. one of them I I mentioned earlier, which is kind of extraordinary creative problem solving. Like you see things in ways that other people just don't see, and this comes up frequently, like in let's say you have a leadership setting where you're doing strategic work together as a professional. you may have a totally different perspective on a problem which really cracks it open for the group. So that's one that's like more kind of commonly talked about. another one that's interesting for professionals is that they are I find ADHD professionals to be extraordinarily hardworking because to be so successful and high achieving many times without even knowing they had ADHD or how their brain worked or anything, the amount of diligence and resilience That they have demonstrated across their life is remarkable. And so there's a little bit of a myth, ADHD people are lazier or they're not productive. I do not find that at all. I I find that once things are optimized, they're often like extraordinarily productive and very hardworking. so that was another one. I think I also now I have to remember. Did I ri I did I write about being kind of sensitive and picking up on cues in the environment with social things? Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes. Dr B: So so one of the downsides that people sometimes talk about with ADHD is being extraordinarily sensitive to different Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dr B: stimuli, but also to people and other people's emotions and really very sensitive to that. And I've seen that be a real strength. they can read the room sometimes very quickly, sometimes very high charisma. sometimes they're the one that kind of walks in the room and just lights up everybody and gets everyone to start cooperating and just changes the vibe and moves everyone away from competition into collaboration. So I've seen that one as well. gosh, now I'm gonna have to try to remember Daniella Karidi, PhD: You you talk about the thriving in high adrenaline situations. Dr B: Yes, yes, that's the one I mentioned a little earlier. So high adrenaline situations, crisis, really intense, high stakes. another example, I working with someone who is a litigator. So they're a lawyer and they're in the courtroom doing these really intense cases. And when they are in the courtroom, they're amazing. They're so attuned to the environment, they're quick on their feet, they see things differently. but then they disclose to me working together that they've had their electricity cut off because they forget to pay their electric bill. Right? So this strength in high adrenaline, or the doctors who are major amazing surgeons, but then they get promoted and they have to do email and it's like they almost get fired because they can't handle email. so a lot of stories like that, with like really just thriving in that high adrenaline, high-stakes world. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I like to say that I will take an ADHD or a neurodivergent person to a trivia game and an emergency. Both cases, I think, you know, as a d we remember all this unnecessary information. And then we're also a lot of us, not everyone, again, when we talk about a group of people, we're talking about a group of people, but every individual might be different. but a lot of ADHDers really succeed focus well and step up when there's a high adrenaline situation. what would you want the reader to get? What's the most important thing? what would you have wished they got from the book? Dr B: The most important thing for me is that you can survive with ADHD, but you can thrive. And yes, it's important to survive, but you can also thrive. So that's really like my top, top takeaway. I as you mentioned, I intentionally made this book a little shorter and hopefully a little more ADHD friendly, making it where you can just read one chapter at a time. So I actually say at the beginning of the book, if you're interested in this, go to this chapter. I encourage people to bop around, just read a little bit here and there, like it's it's supposed to be written that way. so hopefully there's a little bit in there for everybody and I I just really want people to know they're not alone. and if they need help, there's tons of people out here who like you would love to be of assistance, but they're not alone and just make sure you get good information. because there's a lot of misinformation out there, unfortunately, and some of it is quite stigmatizing. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I appreciate that. I like to ask all my guests a question about if you could go back and have a conversation with younger self. So as a parent for an oratored virgin, and now that you know all this information from Dr B: Yes, I Daniella Karidi, PhD: the last three years, or just as an adult woman going back and looking at your teenager or kid self, what would you tell yourself? Dr B: gosh, we could get real shrinky on this one. so if I were to go back in time to when I was young, before I did my training, I would have said that emotions are okay. I actually grew up in a house where w people didn't, you know, emotions didn't exist. and I would tell myself that, you know, the variation amongst humans is fascinating, and that's what I think makes us so interesting. And the idea of right or wrong or one way to be and a way not to be. I mean, that's all just a mental construct, a cultural construct. So I think I would have pointed out a lot of the cultural construct I was living in, which I wasn't aware of until I was older. and if I had to go back and tell myself as a young parent of a kid that is a neurodivergent kid, I think I would tell myself like Sometimes it is helpful to have a diagnosis and a label and and validating that as a parent it's really hard to know when to go and seek a label versus say, this is just my kid, this is my beautiful kid, this is how they are. Like just validate for myself as a young parent. Like it's really hard to do that and to know when is the right time because you don't want your kid to feel that stigma or you don't want them to feel something's wrong with them, but you do need them to understand their brains and I don't know, maybe I could have leaned into that a little earlier than I did when I was a young parent, but also just validate as a parent if anyone's listening, like it is hard because your kid is your kid and and putting labels on a kid doesn't feel great, but sometimes it is actually helpful to the kid to to have a label so they can understand things better too. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. And what would you tell future self? What would you tell to future Dr. B? Dr B: gosh. I think what the direction I've been trying to head over the last, you know, maybe five years of my career post-pandemic is lean into who you are. Like just go full in and work with people you like to work with, follow what interests you. Yeah, you gotta pay the bills. I got some tuition, I gotta pay, but I'm getting close to the other side of that. And like Life is so much better when you just lean into who you are and you surround yourself with people and work and things that are in alignment with that. So less fighting and just more alignment. And it's okay if work falls away or friends fall. You know, if it's not meant to be, that's okay. So I've I've been trying to go that direction and I I feel like I've made a lot of progress. and it is much easier. And I guess everybody has their own form of masking of some kind, right? And so I guess taking off the mask and leaning into what the vulnerable part makes life better. So I don't know. That's the direction I'm trying to go these days. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I I appreciate that. can you tell the audience and listeners where they can find you and what exactly you do these days besides writing great books? Dr B: Yeah, sure. So just follow me on LinkedIn if you want kind of written thought leadership pieces or on YouTube. So you can find me for video format there. those are the only social media I'm on, quite intentionally. There's a reason for that. And if you're interested in reaching out to me for help, I can do assessment and treatment in 25 states now, and I can do coaching anywhere in the US. So you can find me at my website, which is constellation. PLLC dot com Daniella Karidi, PhD: And I will include those in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for joining me here at ADHD Time on Air. It was a pleasure talking with you. Dr B: Yeah, thank you for having me. This was great. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Thank you.