Latest / New Worlder / Episode #114: Nicolás Tapia

Transcript

Episode #114: Nicolás Tapia · New Worlder

• 0:00
  This is the New Worlder Podcast and I am one of your hosts,
• 0:03
  Nicholas Gill.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking with Nicolás Tapia,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: who is the chef and owner of the restaurant Yum Cha in Santiago,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Chile.
• 0:17
  Nicolás talks about how he became interested in tea during a
• 0:22
  trip to China and
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: during a family-style meal where everyone was drinking tea,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: he
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: was reminded of the Chilean concept of once,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: the evening tea and meal that happens throughout much of Chile.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: every day.
• 0:36
  That's when the idea was planted in his head to create a
• 0:39
  restaurant where food and
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: tea could be paired together in Chile,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: combining his cooking experience,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Chilean ingredients,
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: and the influences from China and elsewhere in Asia,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: where he continues to explore regularly.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned this in the conversation,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: but when I first heard about yum cha,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I questioned whether it was going to work.
• 0:59
  I mean,
• 1:00
  a tasting menu with Asian techniques,
• 1:02
  Chilean ingredients,
• 1:03
  and a tea pairing?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a risk,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: even though there is a ton of tea consumed in Chile,
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: more than anywhere else in Latin America per capita,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: and even more than in China and Japan,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't realize that.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But then I went and I was like, all right, he knows what he's doing.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It comes through in the interview.
• 1:21
  I think it's a good example of someone following their
• 1:24
  curiosities to another part
• 1:26
  of the world with an open mind and doing something interesting
• 1:31
  with what they
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: learned
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: and continuing to learn, engage, and create with that knowledge.
• 1:38
  I highly recommend a meal there if you're in Santiago or stop
• 1:42
  by the tea house he
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: is about to open,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: which we talk about.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nicolas did the interview from a hotel room in La Paz,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Bolivia,
• 1:50
  where he was doing an event later in the week with the
• 1:53
  restaurant Feiyawi,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: which I haven't been to,
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: but I've heard great things.
• 1:58
  I'll be in Bolivia in a few months and hopefully I'll have time
• 2:01
  to stop by.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, Julie is very quiet in this interview.
• 2:07
  It was because she was staying at a hotel somewhere in
• 2:09
  California and her internet
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: went out after a few minutes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you watch the video on YouTube,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: you'll see her disappear and then attempt to reappear several times,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: but ultimately it just never happened for more than a few seconds.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry, not much Julie in this episode after the first few minutes.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's free to subscribe,
• 2:35
  though paid subscribers get access to all of the content and
• 2:38
  the back archives.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's newworlder.com.
• 2:44
  Also look for my books,
• 2:46
  such as the Latin American Cookbook at small bookstores
• 2:49
  everywhere.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Also check out the New Worlder YouTube channel, which I just mentioned.
• 2:54
  We have full episodes there,
• 2:55
  as well as some clips and other video content.
• 2:57
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• 3:01
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• 3:06
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• 3:10
  sharing to other people.
• 3:11
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• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the show.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Nicolas, how are you?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, how are you?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fine, thank you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for the invitation.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Nicolas.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you're in La Paz now?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I arrived here.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I arrived to Bolivia four days ago.
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  I went to Santa Cruz first,
• 4:14
  which is another type of Bolivia that I didn't imagine at all.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's tropical.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's tropical and it's very commercial.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very...
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Capitalist.
• 4:26
  And then I came to La Paz,
• 4:27
  which is the Bolivia I imagined myself a few years ago.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm going to be here until Saturday.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing a collab with Payawi.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's a local restaurant.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: A very nice restaurant.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you have the chance to come here.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been, but I've heard so many great things about it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: It looks wonderful.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Put it on the first of the bucket list because it has a lot of substance.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It has a beautiful story and the food is amazing.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just traditional food, but perfectly made.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: It looks beautiful.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen the photos and it looks like, wow, this is...
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: beautiful Bolivian food,
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: unpretentious,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: but just like cooked wonderfully,
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: beautiful ingredients,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: nice plating.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think we don't even have that in Chile.
• 5:17
  We don't have a restaurant that takes care of all the details
• 5:19
  of traditional dishes
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: and they present it just like they are.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're missing that in Chile.
• 5:26
  Yeah,
• 5:26
  like maybe in the provinces a little bit,
• 5:28
  but maybe not to that extent.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to think.
• 5:33
  There was that place in Santiago,
• 5:36
  but I mean,
• 5:37
  it was less traditional food.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was more like La Fuente or something like that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Las Cabras, yes, absolutely.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Las Cabras, yes.
• 5:46
  Yeah,
• 5:47
  I mean,
• 5:47
  it wasn't really traditional food,
• 5:49
  but it was more popular.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: but you could find,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: besides all the traditional sandwich culture that we have,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: from completos and italianos and all that things,
• 6:01
  the chef there was doing some traditional dishes with focusing
• 6:05
  on all the details.
• 6:07
  When they closed it,
• 6:08
  it was a huge loss for the local gastronomic culture.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love that place.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: A bunch of times.
• 6:16
  No one is taking the risk or even interested in doing something
• 6:22
  like that again.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it'll happen.
• 6:25
  I think regional cuisine in general is starting to kind of pop
• 6:31
  everywhere.
• 6:32
  The capitals are all kind of maxed out with what you can do in
• 6:37
  some sense.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a young cook...
• 6:41
  I think it's much more realistic to go open in the provinces of
• 6:46
  whatever part of
• 6:47
  Latin America and you do something great with less money and
• 6:51
  take bigger risk.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's still it's like you need people to go to it.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's starting to happen in a few places here.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: How's the altitude treating you?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: So far, so good, I think.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have this crazy, this city is so crazy.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been in a city when you change altitude so fast.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's crazy how they live with that, you know, day by day.
• 7:23
  So yesterday we went to a market,
• 7:28
  local market in El Alto,
• 7:30
  which is a town located
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's on the plateau.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, yeah, on the plateau.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then suddenly you change from 2,000 to 4,000 in just 30 minutes.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then your body feels it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then everything starts functioning slower and slower.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to take care of that.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's doing great.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Last year, I had to travel a lot.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to Quito and Bogota and Cusco.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it's harder, but it's not that different from those places.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know what to expect, at least a little bit.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't drink too much alcohol, so that helps a lot.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Tea, are you drinking tea?
• 8:12
  I'm drinking and I'm discovering a lot of the herbs or
• 8:17
  medicinal herbs,
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  roots also.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: This type of trips is not only good for me for...
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: human relationship purposes or collaboration purposes,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: but also I take a lot of ideas to bring back to my restaurant,
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  especially when I come here to Bolivia or last year when I went
• 8:39
  to Valle Sagrado,
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  SPEAKER_01: Sacred Valley in Cusco.
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  Those two places,
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  they have strong herbs and roots and seeds,
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  infusions,
• 8:50
  cultures.
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  So that opens my mind a lot with the possibility of doing not
• 8:56
  only a tea pairing in
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  SPEAKER_01: my restaurant,
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  SPEAKER_01: but also doing an infusion,
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  SPEAKER_01: a local ingredients infusion pairing as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's super interesting.
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  SPEAKER_00: I never even thought about that.
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  SPEAKER_00: First of all, your restaurant, when I first heard about it,
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  I was like,
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  this is either going to be a disaster or it's going to be
• 9:19
  totally awesome.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I went, and it's totally awesome.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't the first one.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was the first one to think that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, OK.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was like, man, this is a big risk.
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  SPEAKER_00: Are Chileans going to get it?
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  SPEAKER_00: Chileans are sometimes a little picky, I think.
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  SPEAKER_00: Not to generalize, but it worked.
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  SPEAKER_00: Works so unbelievably well.
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  Why I think it works is because Chile has this incredible tea
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  culture already.
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  SPEAKER_00: Tea consumption in Chile is among the highest in the world, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: At least top 10.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's around 9th or 8th place.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's higher than Japan and China and...
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: all of these places where you would assume tea is stronger.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, Chile, why do Chileans drink so much tea?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 10:19
  it's kind of like a luck story because they used to drink mate
• 10:26
  in the old days,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: just like Argentinians and Uruguayans.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the government,
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: by ignorance,
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: and probably it's one of the best things that has happened to us,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: They forbid the mate.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: They thought it was kind of like a drug or something.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they forbid it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And this was just in the time that when British sailors,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: they arrived to the ports of Chile and they brought tea with them.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: They did that in all the countries.
• 10:59
  It's just like with the strong mate culture,
• 11:02
  the tea didn't have a place there.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have mate anymore here, so she entered like
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: The people just started to drink it.
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  SPEAKER_01: They saw it like a perfect replacement for Mate,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: also in terms of economics,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: because it was also really cheap.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just stayed here.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then later,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: with the German immigration after the Second World War,
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: they brought the concept of,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know it,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: but the Onze,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's our dinner.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:36
  where you gather together and you share a huge basket of
• 11:41
  different type of bread
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: and things for the bread charcuterie,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: cheeses,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: jams,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: avocados,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: something like that and then
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: They found tea here present in the culture, so it was a perfect match.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then tea stayed.
• 11:56
  The people saw in tea like a perfect beverage for every meal in
• 12:03
  the day,
• 12:03
  especially in our once.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's our local dinner.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So once is just kind of like the southern half of Chile, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the north, you wouldn't find it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Depends.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It depends.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: In more traditional places, it's hard to find it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But in common families,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anyone,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: any Chilean that hasn't had once at least once in their lives.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's very common.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's very common.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:34
  That is also the reason why we are one of the highest bread
• 12:37
  consumers in the world.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the onset.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 12:45
  like my experience with it usually has been traveling like in
• 12:50
  the Lakes District or
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Patagonia and in the afternoon and,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:54
  like being at a hotel and they put out this beautiful spread at
• 12:59
  like four o'clock
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: or something.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a time for it exactly?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's too early.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so maybe five, six.
• 13:08
  When you're a kid,
• 13:08
  they give it to you at five,
• 13:10
  maybe,
• 13:10
  or six at the latest.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But normally as a family, you do it at between 7 and 9 p.m.
• 13:19
  You used to do it when you were watching the TV drama together
• 13:25
  with the family.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was a replacement for the dinner.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because, well, there's a lot of stories.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: None of them are confirmed.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the most popular one is that the workers,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: the sailors,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: the miners,
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: all the hard labor workers back in the day,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't want to drink tea.
• 13:49
  So they used that chance to drink some,
• 13:52
  I forgot the name in English,
• 13:55
  the Aguardiente.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a firewater or whatever.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then they mix that with the tea.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So in kind of like in a code way,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: they used to do,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to drink the once letras,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: the 11 letters,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: which is aguardiente,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, okay.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the many stories that we have about the creation of once,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: but that's the most popular one.
• 14:22
  And I think it's the one that people like to tell all the
• 14:27
  people outside of Chile.
• 14:30
  In Spanish,
• 14:30
  we say,
• 14:31
  vamos a tomar once,
• 14:32
  which is kind of like,
• 14:34
  let's take the once.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do it always in the afternoon.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So would it be safe to categorize yum cha as an on-site restaurant?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I usually say it in the general description to clients,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: but it's definitely something more elaborated.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the inspiration, it came for something like that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I was in China doing this...
• 15:06
  revolutionary trip for for me um i started the trip just
• 15:11
  discovering the chinese
• 15:13
  gastronomy it was something that i was very curious about all
• 15:18
  the time uh you know
• 15:20
  every every cook or most of the cooks they they tend to to
• 15:24
  dream with visiting
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: japan and discovering all the japanese gastronomic culture
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I was very attracted always by the Chinese chaos,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: the disorder,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: the use of the wok,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: the spices,
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: everything.
• 15:41
  So when I did this trip to start discovering or doing the
• 15:46
  accomplishing this dream,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: I started doing this trip with only gastronomic purpose,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: only cuisine purposes.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I discovered in one market a tea stand,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: a very interesting tea stand,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: which got my attention immediately.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because imagine yourself,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to a Latin American market,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: the same structure,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: and then you see a stand,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: a big stand,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: full with teas,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: different types of teas,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: infusions,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: all the materials in raw materials,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: dry materials.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, tea at that point was only bad quality black tea.
• 16:32
  Being born here in Chile and having the tea as we drink it here
• 16:38
  in Chile my whole life.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then I moved to Mexico.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Mexico,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: which you have no tea at all there,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: but you have a strong herbs and infusions culture over there.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I lived twice in Turkey.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: They have a similar tea culture that Chileans.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: They drink a lot of tea the whole day.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: But we only drink this bad quality Indian black tea.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: For me, tea was...
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: just that at that point.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when I saw that tea stand in the market,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 17:10
  this is something so deep and different that I didn't have this
• 17:16
  variation of this
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: product in my mind.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it got my attention and started drinking tea in that moment.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing that market tour with a Chinese local guy.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I told her, please,
• 17:31
  translate for me to that guy if he can sell me two different
• 17:36
  type of teas.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he told me,
• 17:40
  uh,
• 17:40
  traditional Szechuanese green tea,
• 17:42
  and then,
• 17:43
  uh,
• 17:43
  Chinese Puerh,
• 17:44
  which is a fermented tea.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And those were two types of teas that I'd never tasted before.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: when I prepared myself those teas in,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: in,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: back in,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: in the Airbnb in China,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: and I tasted them,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: this goes from point A to sit and something that I never tasted before.
• 18:03
  And I want to discuss,
• 18:04
  I want to discover this,
• 18:06
  how,
• 18:06
  how deep it is,
• 18:07
  how,
• 18:08
  uh,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: variety it could be and and I started doing this trip one side with with
• 18:15
  discovering flavors products and ingredients in China and at
• 18:19
  the same time was in
• 18:20
  every stop that I was doing I was visiting the tea the local
• 18:24
  tea stand and buying
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: and trying discovering new type of
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the trip in Canton province,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: in Guangzhou,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I discovered this beautiful tradition of yum cha or yam cha,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: as they call it,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: which consists basically in gathering together with friends,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: with colleagues or family.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: to share a meal with tea all the time.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when we got this Yamcha experience the first time,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I had this aha moment when basically my restaurant started.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was the seat moment.
• 19:06
  on two points the first one was that because my formation as a
• 19:10
  cook is I have been
• 19:12
  working most of the time in restaurants with tasting menu with
• 19:16
  50 best or Michelin
• 19:18
  star standards because I the first time I tasted a tasting menu
• 19:23
  for me was a
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: revelation I said okay this is
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you do it okay,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: if you care about all the details,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: this is the best artistic expression that you can have as a cook.
• 19:33
  And also you can transmit or transfer a lot of sensation and
• 19:39
  emotions to the
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: clients in every dish.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, okay, I'm going to develop myself in this type of...
• 19:47
  And when we did this jump chat the first time,
• 19:52
  we did it with a huge group of friends.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we ordered a lot of food in the center of the table to share.
• 19:59
  And it felt like an informal tasting menu because we were
• 20:04
  eating a lot of food.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: small amounts of different 10, 12, 14 different type of dishes.
• 20:10
  And with tea,
• 20:11
  it works really nice because tea helps you a lot with the
• 20:14
  digestion.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It helps you a lot with the...
• 20:20
  amount of food that you're ingesting at that time and it
• 20:23
  doesn't make you feel
• 20:24
  tired or for example when you do that tasting menu with a wine
• 20:28
  pairing wine it's
• 20:30
  amazing but at the end of the meal it's just another stone over
• 20:34
  you you know
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was the first point, the first aha moment there.
• 20:39
  And then the second one,
• 20:40
  uh,
• 20:41
  I related it immediately to the onset,
• 20:43
  to our local onset.
• 20:45
  And I say,
• 20:45
  Oh,
• 20:46
  this is just like onset,
• 20:47
  but with different flavors,
• 20:49
  textures,
• 20:50
  products.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: But the concept is the same.
• 20:53
  You know,
• 20:53
  we're sharing food,
• 20:54
  a lot of food in a family style meal and with tea.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, okay, maybe if I, uh,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: If I think in a concept where I put all my information,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: all my fine dining information,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: all the things that I have discovered in this trip so far,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: and I do it in a country where tea is not a weird animal,
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: it's not weird to present or tell a Chilean,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have a dinner with tea.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So those were the two aha moments that drove me to
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: think that it could be a good idea to do it in Chile.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: What were you doing?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how old were you?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what were you?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where else?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Where were you cooking at the time?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, I just, I have finished, I was leading a gastronomic club.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was called Milesime.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: They have their
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: their central restaurant in Mexico City.
• 21:59
  And they opened for two or three years in Chile and I was
• 22:02
  leading the fine dining restaurant.
• 22:05
  So when we finished there,
• 22:07
  I had a lot of time,
• 22:09
  a lot of money and energy.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, okay, this is the perfect time to do this trip.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: to do.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to China just in a blank page.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any detailed plan.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any contacts.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have knowledge in Mandarin, nothing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just I organized my trip between what I thought.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm right now.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But at that time, what I thought, they were the two biggest
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Chinese regional cuisines, which is Sichuan and Canton cuisine.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I did this trip from,
• 22:43
  I started in Chengdu in the capital of Sichuan and then I
• 22:47
  finished it in Guangzhou
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Canton and Hong Kong as well.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: You just got back from a trip to
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: to Asia, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like a few months ago?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: The Yumcha is creatively feeding off all these trips as well.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I always tell our clients.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: When they arrive,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: especially when Asians arrive to my restaurant,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: they think they're going to find something very traditional.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they think they're going to find a Chinese back in the kitchen,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: moving the wok and everything.
• 23:21
  And then I present myself and they are kind of like a surprise,
• 23:24
  you know,
• 23:24
  they say,
• 23:24
  oh,
• 23:25
  why tea?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why Chinese cuisine?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why you, you know?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell them this is a restaurant.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: This restaurant is just the sum of...
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: or the representation of a trip to Asia and what we saw there,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: what got into our mind,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: and then we just put it in a restaurant,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: in a menu.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: So in January, I went to Japan.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first time in Japan.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 23:59
  It was weird because at first I was thinking,
• 24:02
  okay,
• 24:02
  this is my first time going to Japan.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do and see what I can as much as possible.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: But then I started thinking, okay, no, this trip is so special.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first time I'm going to this culture.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I want to take back as many ideas as possible.
• 24:21
  So I organized myself,
• 24:23
  the trip I organized it,
• 24:24
  and I was one month in just Tokyo.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't go out from Tokyo.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone that knew I was going to Japan and knew about this trip,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: they were telling me,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: you're crazy,
• 24:37
  you're wasting your chance to visit Kyoto and all the nature
• 24:43
  and Sapporo and all
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: these amazing places.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, but...
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think in Tokyo, it's everything condensed.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to bring ideas,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: then it's the fastest way possible to visit different places,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: different type of businesses.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I did it just because of that.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just one month in Tokyo.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was waking up every day.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: going to one place for lunch,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: going to one place for dinner,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: and in the mid-time,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I walked a lot.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I walked from the place that I had lunch to the place
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I will have dinner.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I used the marvelous help of ChatGPT.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I told ChatGPT,
• 25:33
  please arrange me a route between this point and this point and
• 25:37
  show me as much
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: special places as possible.
• 25:42
  And I discovered a lot of amazing places just walking in Tokyo,
• 25:47
  thanks to this new thing.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I was there a couple of years ago, but just for a week.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I only was in Tokyo as well.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Man, there's just so much there.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very intense city.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I try to be alone all the time.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoy a lot being myself alone in these kind of trips.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: But for example, I had the chance to join Virgilio Martinez in that trip.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: We got together for one day.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then he introduced me to his chef there in Mas, in Santiago.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: He told me for two days to do some extra things.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he started to tell me how hard was the war culture in Japan.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you see it from the outside and then you see an amazing place.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: hearing it from one that has been working there for a couple of years,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: and then you realize that if you go there,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: it's a big challenge,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: but you lose your whole social life.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have any more social life in Tokyo.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a place...
• 26:56
  basically made design for people that love to work,
• 27:00
  which I find it really cool.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But also it's a place designed for introvert people.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you like to talk with people,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to feel noise,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: to see movement,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: to all the things that we are used to in Latin America,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have a really bad time,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: What I found refreshing is how many, like, amazing small...
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: extremely focused bars and restaurants there were.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like places with like six seats, sometimes four seats.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: but you could go into this basement,
• 27:38
  this dingy fucking basement and inside was this nice room and
• 27:43
  you would find only a
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: specific type of wine from the Girard in France.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or you go to like a certain ramen bar.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's just like,
• 27:55
  four seats in the middle of nowhere or whatever and it's just
• 27:59
  these tiny places but
• 28:01
  they work you know and it's like they're putting out amazing
• 28:04
  food people completely
• 28:06
  dedicated to their craft and somehow they earn an income from
• 28:11
  it and they're able
• 28:12
  to earn a living from it and there's like a balance in that
• 28:17
  that i don't don't
• 28:18
  really see in a lot of other places like able to earn a good
• 28:22
  living from a
• 28:23
  fucking four seat restaurant somehow like i don't know how it
• 28:28
  works because in new
• 28:28
  york it's like it's basically impossible now it's like the city
• 28:33
  doesn't really work
• 28:34
  for most people you know especially restaurant people running
• 28:39
  restaurants it's like
• 28:40
  it's so hard but there it seemed it seemed like you could just
• 28:44
  take a space the
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: rent wasn't that high
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And make it work.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Make a four or six-seat restaurant work.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I'm still amazed by that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a culture difference between them and us Westerns.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I put myself and Latin Americans and all the Western countries.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you have two points there.
• 29:07
  The first one is the craft man,
• 29:11
  the entrepreneur,
• 29:13
  as you wish,
• 29:14
  as you might call it.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: when they start doing something,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: they project themselves in the long term,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:22
  so they don't start anything or they don't do anything with a
• 29:28
  short term project.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And also the clients, if Western countries, clients or guests are
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Year by year, more people are going into this fast content consumption.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they go to a restaurant, they find it cool or they don't like it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But after two or three visits, that's it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Give me something new.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like this anymore because it's...
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: even if it has an amazing quality or something interesting,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I already tasted it,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I already lived it,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: so I want to try something new.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the client in Japan is something completely different.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: They really love tradition and perfection.
• 30:19
  If you go as a Japanese client,
• 30:22
  you go to one place,
• 30:23
  new place,
• 30:23
  and you try it and you like it,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: then your second visit is to see how they perform better.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: They improve.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think we get a lot of things wrong in the West.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: We make things so hard on ourselves.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they have a lot of bad things also.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the perfect place.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, no place is perfect.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: For us,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: it was also like a revelation trip for new ideas,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: getting to know new techniques,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: products,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: all the things related to kitchen.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: But more important,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: at least for our restaurant,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: was a confirmation to...
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: We have working,
• 31:03
  hard working in these last three years of developing a small
• 31:07
  restaurant where you
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: can...
• 31:09
  use this small restaurant advantage to focus on all the details
• 31:13
  related to,
• 31:14
  to our product.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And especially related to our service.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: When you,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: when you work in a small restaurant,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: you can have a different type of relationship with the clients.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then every client becomes your,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: they enter to the restaurant as a normal client and they go out as a,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: something else,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to say as a friend,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: but something else,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: definitely.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And going to Japan,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: going to Tokyo and going in Tokyo,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: visiting so many different places,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: different concepts,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: but with all of them with this structure of small restaurant,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: for us was a confirmation.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, okay, we were doing this in a country, doing this in a city.
• 31:59
  where the standard of a new business or new gastronomic
• 32:02
  business is always big,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: always loud,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: the volume,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: you know.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: For us, it was like just gasoline.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: They say,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: let's keep doing it like this until we die or until the restaurant dies,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is something special and it works.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: It works thousands of kilometers away from us,
• 32:24
  but let's keep doing it so people can understand it and
• 32:28
  evaluate and enjoy it as
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: well.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So Yomcha has how many, like 20 seats, something like that?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, we have 10 tables.
• 32:37
  We have two of those 10 tables that are big tables,
• 32:40
  so we can put their...
• 32:43
  until six people and then if we get a combination with big
• 32:47
  tables we can do like
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: maximum 28 30 guests okay yeah that's small for Santiago I mean
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's huge for Japan.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's small for Japan.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you found the middle ground, I guess.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, we did it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: At first, we were one year and a half doing it with just 12 seats.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was when you went there.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you say you're getting techniques and things,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: so the menu at Yung Cha,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to remember when I was there,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: it's
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like specifically Chinese, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's from a little bit of everywhere.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: it has our menu and especially our cuisine now,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: my cuisine,
• 33:35
  which I have been developing for maybe 10 years and I didn't
• 33:38
  know where I was
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: going.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then I saw everything.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Backwards, and I understood all my information and my path.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: In Yomcha specifically, it has two origins.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: The first one is, of course, the tea.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when we decided to create a place where tea was playing a huge role,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: basically a fundamental role.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we decided to do the...
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: When we decided to approach tea as sommeliers do it with wine,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: professionally approach,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: we said,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: the most logical thing to do is to use Asian flavors,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: products,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: and techniques,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: because they have been together with tea for centuries.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Tea is the most Asian beverage in the world, so...
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a perfect and natural pairing between each other.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then we decided to use an Asian inspiration.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: We said,
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 34:33
  we're going to land it here in Chile and see how can we adapt
• 34:37
  it first to the local
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: palate.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because if,
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want to try or taste a traditional Sichuanese dish,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: it would be impossible to do it here for the level of spice.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no reference in Chile or Chile.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right, of Chinese cooking at all.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not like Peru with the chifas.
• 34:58
  No,
• 34:59
  but we have the same Chinese,
• 35:04
  Latin Chinese cuisine that you can find everywhere.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: But no, a traditional Chinese cuisine, they have no reference at all.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the first origin because of the tea.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the second one,
• 35:17
  I didn't realize about that until maybe four years ago when I
• 35:21
  started in pandemic,
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I started to analyze my whole career and say,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: what's the...
• 35:28
  The best thing that I've learned in all the countries and
• 35:31
  kitchens and places that
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have been traveling and worked at,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: and it's the sauces.
• 35:40
  I define my cuisine technically as a sauce cuisine because I
• 35:45
  was born in Mexico,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: so I grew up with a very strong sauce cuisine.
• 35:50
  And then in China,
• 35:52
  when I arrived to China,
• 35:53
  for me,
• 35:54
  everything was so different at first.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I passed this shock,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: this culture shock at first,
• 36:02
  and I started to get to know all the culture and the dishes and
• 36:05
  the gastronomic
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: scene,
• 36:06
  I started to realize that it was very similar to Mexican
• 36:09
  cuisine in the base of
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: using sauces,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: spices.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: when you present a dish in a Mexican cuisine or Chinese cuisine,
• 36:17
  the first thing that you see and realize when you see the dish
• 36:20
  is you say,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: wow,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of things going on here.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of colors, a lot of products.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't seem like it will work.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then you taste it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in your mouth, it's all perfectly balanced.
• 36:34
  You feel the 28 ingredients that they tell you that the dish
• 36:37
  was containing.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: But everything works.
• 36:39
  So I started to get these similarities between these two Asian
• 36:45
  traditional cuisines.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, yeah, sausage has been with me my whole life.
• 36:51
  So for me,
• 36:52
  I didn't realize it,
• 36:54
  but it's the main,
• 36:56
  it's the soul of my cuisine.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I create a dish, the first thing I create is the sauce.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when the sauce is finished,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: just like I,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's when I taste the sauce,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: a sauce is finished when I taste it and I say,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 37:10
  tomorrow I can bottle this and I can sell it in the supermarket
• 37:13
  and people will buy
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: it,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's addictive.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I start creating the rest of the dish.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: If it's better with fish,
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: vegetables,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: shellfish,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: or the temperature,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: if it's cold,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: warm or room temperature dish,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: textures and everything else.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: But everything's from Chile, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything, all the ingredients?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: We source our ingredients from local suppliers.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: All the seafood products are from Chile, definitely.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Vegetables are all from Chile there.
• 37:46
  But something very funny occurs there because when I came back
• 37:50
  from China,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I saw so many different things there.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I said,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: these things like fresh tofu and Chinese vegetables,
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I won't find them in Chile.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to look for a replacement.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I came back,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's been already five years or six years,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I started to discover Chinatown,
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: local Chinatown.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I still do it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: In Santiago?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: In Santiago.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a Chinatown?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: but it's more residential and commercial than touristic Chinatown,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: as in the States.
• 38:21
  And I started discovering a very old and big community,
• 38:27
  Chinese community.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: They have been living here for years.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: They have second and third generation kits.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very commercial community, so they work a lot.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care about the tourists.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're located in a very rough neighborhood,
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: but they have a lot of basic demands that have been supplying them with,
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: creating the offer.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go outside of Santiago,
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: like maybe 20,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: 30 minutes away from Santiago,
• 39:02
  you will find some suburbs zones where you can find local
• 39:07
  Chinese gardens.
• 39:09
  They create there,
• 39:12
  for example,
• 39:13
  all the variety of Chinese vegetables that you find in China.
• 39:17
  And then they supply them in the local Chinese supermarkets in
• 39:20
  this Chinatown.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find everything.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So vegetables, yeah, they are all harvested here in Chile.
• 39:25
  But some of them,
• 39:27
  I would say maybe 40%,
• 39:30
  comes from these Chinese farms in the suburbs.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, the staples.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we use a lot of...
• 39:40
  All the Asian staples,
• 39:43
  they imported soy sauce,
• 39:46
  rice vinegar,
• 39:47
  all those kind of ingredients.
• 39:50
  We have made some tests in these three years to create our own,
• 39:54
  for example,
• 39:55
  soy sauce.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: But instead, for example, of using soybeans, we use the granado beans.
• 40:03
  I don't know if you know them,
• 40:04
  but the granado beans is the beans that grows in summer.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we...
• 40:09
  We use them with this dish with corn and base,
• 40:13
  you know,
• 40:13
  the porotos con mazamoro.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a white bean, right?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a white and fresh bean.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: But does testing turn out yet or you're still like working on it?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, we did it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was really good.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Something different, but really, really, really nice.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's something that takes a lot of time.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: It took us like almost a year to do it.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And now we have to,
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: next summer,
• 40:39
  we have to develop a logistic to do more in a big quantity so
• 40:44
  we can use it the
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: whole year.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a huge challenge.
• 40:47
  More than doing the test and then using it for the whole
• 40:50
  restaurant the whole year,
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: that's a very tough challenge.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned balance a little bit ago.
• 41:01
  The pairing,
• 41:04
  it can be tea,
• 41:05
  it can be wine,
• 41:06
  it can be tea mixed with wine.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, just what we have different options.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: We started the restaurant with just a tea pairing.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted romantically create the first restaurant
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: The tea restaurant without any other type of beverage.
• 41:22
  But the idea just standing for three months and then we had to
• 41:25
  put some alcohol there.
• 41:28
  And at first we wanted to use a type of alcohol that goes well
• 41:33
  with the concept
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: that we create,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: that goes well with tea and Asian flavors.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we thought immediately in sake, Japanese sake.
• 41:42
  But at first it was a tough challenge because we didn't have
• 41:46
  good suppliers or
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: variety of good quality saques.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided to do an intervention with wines, with local wines.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: We started to discover the wine that we needed for the restaurant,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: not the wine that Chilean industry wanted to promote.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, we...
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I met Giselle, which currently is our matre and sommelier.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I say that because it's just so people understand the position,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: but we don't have matre and we don't have sommelier in the restaurant.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: She came with no formation at all.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then we grew up together in this...
• 42:32
  discovering what kind of beverage we wanted for the restaurant
• 42:36
  and what kind of
• 42:36
  special and more important what kind of service we wanted to
• 42:40
  for the for the
• 42:41
  restaurant and then one year ago a japanese supplier for for
• 42:45
  normal staples he
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: approached me and he told me you know um i'm
• 42:52
  willing to make the effort and the risk to start importing good
• 42:56
  quality sakes.
• 42:57
  I just want you to help me to spread the word and put this
• 43:03
  information in every Asian
• 43:06
  or every Asian restaurant that could be interested in using
• 43:11
  this product.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he has been already one year,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: and every three months that has the importation coming from Japan,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: he always improves the stock,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: the variety of sakes.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to Tokyo,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I joined the link,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: the person that works as a link with them and the producers,
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: and he took me to...
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: to a local sake bar in Tokyo.
• 43:38
  He made me or like he gave me like a three hours catering of
• 43:43
  different type of
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: sakes and told me at the end,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: now you choose which one are the next going to Chile.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: So now we have a very interesting option for people.
• 43:54
  I always say that if you go to Yamcha and don't drink,
• 43:58
  you can have a good time.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if you drink alcohol or you don't drink alcohol.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a tea pairing, we have a full wine pairing.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: We work only with local wines,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Chilean wines,
• 44:10
  and we use wines from small producers or special editions from
• 44:16
  big producers as
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: well.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have two mixed pairings, which are the most popular ones.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have one tea and wine pairing and one tea and sake pairing as well.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when I was there, I think I had the mixed wine and tea.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it was great.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was... And I think you gave me extra teas.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a roller coaster.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: I always recommend it to everyone.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it a lot.
• 44:44
  I never had a food and tea pairing other than Honte or
• 44:49
  something like that.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And tasting menu.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it makes so much sense.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there is this balance.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: It does help you digest and feel good.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I do a tasting menu and I don't get the wine,
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: and I opt for the non-alcoholic pairing,
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: usually it's very heavy too.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like juices or something, and then it just adds a lot of sugar.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd almost always rather have the alcohol in that sense.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's heavy in fermentation,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: because normally they use a lot of fermented beverage,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: and at the moment you don't feel it heavy.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: One month ago,
• 45:29
  I did a non-alcoholic pairing in an amazing restaurant in
• 45:35
  Guatemala that I
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: discovered recently.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that existed.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which one?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Quiltro in Antigua.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's from Chilean.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: He works in different good places, especially in Noma.
• 45:49
  So he has been developing a tasting menu based on Guatemalan
• 45:54
  vegetables and fruits.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: He uses vegetables and fruits as protagonists,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: and he used proteins as well,
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: but as a second participant.
• 46:05
  And it was an amazing experience,
• 46:09
  one of the best menus that I've eaten in the year.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he offered us a non-alcoholic pairing based only on meat.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mead?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mead, yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was amazing.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Every meat was from a different Guatemalan fruit.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, I told him, oh, this is very interesting, a good option.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I arrived to
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: to the hotel at night, I couldn't sleep, man.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: All the gases, they started coming out.
• 46:41
  That's something that happens when you go for a non-alcoholic
• 46:44
  pairing based on
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: fermentation products or on the other side,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: if you do it with juices or mocktails,
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: it's always charged to the sugar,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: to the acidity,
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: the lemon juice,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know.
• 46:57
  And tea gives you this option of feeling the same sensation of
• 47:02
  wine,
• 47:02
  but without the alcohol.
• 47:03
  But the same tea behaves similar to wine from the origin to the
• 47:12
  very end of the process.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just one plant, but it depends on the terroir.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on the variety of the plant, the cultivar.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: It has a lot of tannins as well.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's...
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's very similar to wine without going into details.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think Latin American food balance and just how your body feels after,
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: it's so secondary most of the time.
• 47:38
  I wish Julie was still here because I remember the worst I've
• 47:41
  ever felt was in
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bogota a few years ago,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: just eating lunch and dinner.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: know for like four days or something and it felt so terrible just because
• 47:54
  everything was so heavy so many so much sugar and salt and just
• 48:00
  protein and they
• 48:02
  fried a lot of things so yeah but i mean these were like nice
• 48:06
  restaurants too it
• 48:06
  wasn't like it wasn't even like fried street food or anything
• 48:09
  that that's you know
• 48:11
  like off the rails it was just like there was like no thought
• 48:14
  to balance giving
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: yeah
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Since they don't have a strong wine culture in Bogotá or in Colombia,
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: there are some restaurant,
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: fine dining restaurant,
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: they even offer you a cocktail pairing,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: which I find completely crazy.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: You end up in coma, man.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: That happens a lot too.
• 48:35
  Restaurants,
• 48:36
  they feed you so much alcohol,
• 48:38
  like in a pairing,
• 48:39
  which sometimes it's nice.
• 48:41
  Sometimes you don't want to think about anything and just get
• 48:43
  drunk and whatever,
• 48:45
  but
• 48:45
  When you're going to a restaurant and there is this kind of
• 48:48
  communication of some
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: idea and just sense of place and all this stuff,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just get drunk and I don't remember anything.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what ends up happening sometimes.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like too much alcohol.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: You feel like shit the next day.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: You ate too much.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I liked your place because there is this sense of balance.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Not even just with the tea.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: But through the food as well.
• 49:17
  I try to encourage a lot of colleagues to include tea in their
• 49:24
  menus,
• 49:24
  in their restaurants.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not because of the variety of flavors.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that they have to discover at the end.
• 49:31
  But for this purpose,
• 49:32
  to help clients to end up more relaxed,
• 49:37
  more light,
• 49:38
  lighter way.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 49:41
  haven't been so successful until now at least in Santiago but
• 49:45
  it's happening in the
• 49:47
  in the continent you know I always tell other people that tea
• 49:53
  we have to see it in
• 49:54
  Latin American tea we have to see it as a continent not as
• 49:57
  countries separated
• 49:59
  because yeah there are so many small efforts that if you count
• 50:02
  them by country it's
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: nothing you know
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: But when you see the big picture and you see this guy in Peru,
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: you see this guy in Brazil,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: you see this guy in Argentina,
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: us in Chile,
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: that's something that you can aggrupate and say,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: OK,
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: look,
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: something is happening,
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: not with the rhythm that we would like to,
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: but there is people doing things in different places.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're opening a second restaurant.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: That was a seat that came with the Tokyo trip.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost finished.
• 50:38
  We are just waiting for small construction details and then
• 50:43
  applying to government
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: regulations,
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: which could be a pain in the ass here in Chile,
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: but it could be a pain in the ass because it has to be made correctly,
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what kind of restaurant is it?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a small tea shop, which is, in Spanish, you call it teteria.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I always present it as a tea shop and coffee shop as well,
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: because we're going to be selling coffee as well,
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: not only tea.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that...
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: The public, the people in Santiago is not ready yet for a full tea spot.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: They are huge, strong coffee consumer here.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are also,
• 51:20
  I think we are also the highest coffee consumers or one of the
• 51:23
  highest coffee
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: consumers in Latin America.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Even if we don't have any coffee culture at all,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: we don't produce coffee with nothing,
• 51:32
  but we consume coffee like animals and every month it's a new
• 51:38
  coffee shop in
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Santiago.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think from the last 10 years,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: it's the biggest gastronomic industry development in Santiago,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: the coffee culture.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: From walking around every year or so,
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: just seeing the number of new cafes,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: it's pretty incredible.
• 52:01
  And also,
• 52:03
  since Santiago,
• 52:04
  in Latin American terms,
• 52:06
  is a very expensive city to live,
• 52:10
  there's a lot of the middle class I think it's happening also
• 52:12
  in the states but a
• 52:13
  lot of the middle class are using the coffee shops now as the
• 52:17
  new restaurants you
• 52:18
  know they can't afford to go to normal restaurants so often so
• 52:24
  they take the local
• 52:26
  coffee shop and then they go there every week every weekend you
• 52:30
  know and they have
• 52:32
  their meal and their time over there so the new restaurant that
• 52:36
  you're making
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: It'll have tea and coffee and will there be food as well?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a small tea shop.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's 20 square meters, basically.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a small bar where you can just order by yourself.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do auto service.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have a tea list.
• 52:55
  I will offer specialty teas from different parts of Asia,
• 53:00
  good quality teas.
• 53:02
  uh also i will work with the lattes there it's a trend now you
• 53:06
  know but we will do
• 53:07
  it not only with matcha we we luckily work with a amazing tea
• 53:11
  supplier she's from
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: chile but lives in china so he does all the
• 53:18
  over there and she has a lot of different type of tea powders
• 53:23
  so we work with not
• 53:25
  only matcha but also hojicha and all different Chinese tea that
• 53:30
  comes in powder and
• 53:30
  we can latte them with actually there's a huge matcha stock
• 53:38
  problem in the world
• 53:40
  everyone is using matcha matcha latte has become probably the
• 53:44
  2025 trend worldwide
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that an issue?
• 53:49
  I didn't realize that,
• 53:50
  but it makes sense that so much matcha is being sold out.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: For Japanese, because...
• 53:56
  matcha was originally conceived for ceremonial purposes and
• 54:03
  it's an expensive tea
• 54:04
  but then someone invented the matcha latte and someone started
• 54:09
  also using it for
• 54:10
  desserts and demand exploded you know and Japanese people they
• 54:18
  created the culinary
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: version the matcha the culinary grade
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: but it's less quality.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: So now everything has to be visual.
• 54:28
  People,
• 54:29
  if they don't get the ultra green matcha,
• 54:32
  they don't sell it,
• 54:32
  they don't consume it.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And with culinary grade, you don't get that type of intense green.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in the last,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: two or three years,
• 54:41
  all the matcha or the coffee shops that have been using matcha
• 54:47
  in their menus,
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: they switched to the matcha ceremonial
• 54:52
  And they ended the whole matcha ceremonial stock in Japan just
• 54:56
  because of fucking
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: color,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: and it's crazy.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:59
  You know,
• 54:59
  at some point,
• 55:00
  somebody is going to start putting some kind of weird colorant.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
• 55:04
  Yeah,
• 55:04
  some colorant in it,
• 55:05
  you know,
• 55:05
  just like grind up some tree frogs or something.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, we're doing that.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Specialty teas, lattes, then good coffee as well.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're going to serve a mix between a Japanese sando.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then in Chile, we have a strong sandwich culture as well.
• 55:27
  We have a lot of these kind of like local sandos that we have
• 55:31
  been doing for decades.
• 55:33
  I don't know if you have tried them,
• 55:35
  but for example,
• 55:36
  ave palta,
• 55:37
  which is the avocado on it.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm a huge fan of Chilean sandwiches.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to make a mixed point between those two.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: The sandwich de miga, which is a local sando, the Japanese sando.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also we're going to serve fresh onigiris.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that blew my mind in Japan.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the two places that they were serving fresh onigiris.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: freshly made onigiris.
• 56:03
  And it's completely different of what you can find in the combi
• 56:05
  store or they
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: pre-make it and then they storage it and it's not the same.
• 56:11
  I mean,
• 56:12
  food in a combi store was something that really surprised me
• 56:14
  because it's crazy good.
• 56:16
  But when you try an onigiri freshly made,
• 56:20
  it's something that stays in your mind.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they pick the rice from the rice cooker.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's still warm.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: You fill it with whatever you want,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: and you make it bigger and you put more,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: you drop it with more nori.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's,
• 56:37
  Since it's bigger and it will fall apart easier,
• 56:42
  you use more nori to stay attached.
• 56:44
  But eating freshly made onigiri warm with more filling is
• 56:50
  something that stayed in my mind.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, this is the perfect snack.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you're just passing by,
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: grab a good cup of tea or coffee,
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: eat this,
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: and then you keep your day.
• 57:02
  you continue your day but the the the concept and uh i would
• 57:07
  say the rhythm of the
• 57:08
  client that i expect is similar to felix cafe i think you went
• 57:12
  to felix yeah it's
• 57:13
  great um consuela's place yeah yeah okay cool is it in that is
• 57:18
  it in providence
• 57:20
  yeah i'm trying to design all the things in uh in providencia
• 57:24
  so i can have a good
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: quality of life also
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't blame you.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what are your plans in Bolivia for the rest of the week?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, basically, we cook on Friday.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we are...
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: I brought,
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had to do only three dishes for this collaboration and I brought almost
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: everything done.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: But then yesterday when we went to the market with Valentina,
• 57:50
  I saw a lot of interesting things and I asked Valentina to
• 57:53
  create two more dishes
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: here from scratch.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she of course told me, yeah, of course do it.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: It would be amazing.
• 58:01
  So we now have a lot of extra production that we,
• 58:04
  it wasn't planned,
• 58:05
  but I like it.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: I always enjoy when I go out and
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I have the time, of course.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I also have the freedom of the person that is inviting you.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays, it's crazy when you go out for an invitation.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: They make you agendas, like military agendas, you know?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: They don't give you free time.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: They say, okay, at 9 p.m.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: you go there,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: and then lunch you go there,
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: and then go to rest,
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: and then here,
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: and then...
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very...
• 58:38
  hiring you know and but valentina she told me do whatever you
• 58:41
  want and then no
• 58:42
  that's cool it's like that's what it should be like yeah when
• 58:45
  it becomes so
• 58:45
  formalized it's like you're not gonna learn anything you're not
• 58:49
  gonna get much out
• 58:50
  of that you know like so yeah the freedom is important that
• 58:54
  part of it it's
• 58:56
  important to enjoy the experience and to enjoy the place you're
• 58:59
  visiting because
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: otherwise yeah why the hell do it yeah do you think you'll start
• 59:06
  using more Latin American-like infusion type things as a
• 59:10
  pairing or something?
• 59:11
  Because you mentioned that and I've been thinking about it
• 59:14
  throughout this interview.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that it's in my mind since basically a year ago.
• 59:18
  I went to Sacred Valley and I talked there with Virgilio
• 59:26
  because I went to meal and
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: he invited me to meal.
• 59:28
  We were talking about how we can start collaborating together
• 59:32
  or do something special.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: both of us,
• 59:36
  we were talking like how empty were the collaboration nowadays
• 59:42
  that you just...
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or not even you.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Someone else picks who's going to be invited by you, you know?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't know the people that you're inviting.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know their cuisine.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know everything.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: You just want to collaborate with that people.
• 59:59
  So we were talking about that and we were talking like how we
• 1:00:02
  could make a...
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: deep and special collaboration, something like that.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we thought in Mil, not in Lima.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: We thought doing something in Mil, which is a very special place.
• 1:00:14
  And my first approach,
• 1:00:16
  I told him,
• 1:00:17
  yeah,
• 1:00:17
  I could do a lot of things cuisine-related,
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say something more special or more different,
• 1:00:24
  it would be like if I use all this knowledge that the people
• 1:00:28
  here have about local
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: herbs,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: infusions,
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: roots,
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: and we create,
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: a Sacred Valley or Indian local pairing,
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: non-anguolic pairing.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the first time when I started thinking in infusion pairings,
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started thinking,
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: but this variety that you can find in the Sacred Valley,
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: if you do a deep investigation in Chile,
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: just for example,
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: like the one that Rodolfo has made for a lot of years,
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: you could create a very interesting endemic or local herbs and roots.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: All these plants in the Atacama and places like that or Patagonia,
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: there could be some incredible things in Chile.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and not only herbs.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: In meal also, I tasted an infusion made with the hairs of the corn.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then you see,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: if this kind of product,
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know how to treat it,
• 1:01:37
  you can get a lot of flavors from something that you didn't
• 1:01:41
  expect from it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Super cool, man.
• 1:01:44
  I'm excited to see where you take this project in the coming
• 1:01:49
  years because I love so much.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: We will be discovering it together.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think that's the right way.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you come in with this
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: this kind of idea, but you have to let it, you know, take you somewhere.
• 1:02:02
  And I think that's the fun part of,
• 1:02:04
  of watching it and,
• 1:02:06
  you know,
• 1:02:06
  in eating there.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like just seeing where else it can go and,
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: where all these ideas are going to.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's,
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: that's something that it's,
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's for a cook,
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: for a chef,
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: for an entrepreneur in,
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: in,
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: in a restaurant.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's something fundamental nowadays.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if, if you have an idea, um,
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: You have to just start it.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't think in the long-term perfect projection.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: Don't expect to cross the fifth avenue with the 20 lights in green.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: It would be impossible.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then be in the way.
• 1:02:43
  You have to be open to all the different opportunities that you
• 1:02:46
  will find in the path.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't know if you take something just by the guts.
• 1:02:51
  It will take you to a place that you never imagined you were
• 1:02:54
  going to be...
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we have had that approach since we started YUMCHA.
• 1:03:00
  We're now in a position that probably we never thought we were
• 1:03:03
  going to be,
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: especially in three years.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was imagining something like that, but maybe eight or nine years.
• 1:03:12
  um so whenever we create something new in the restaurant and
• 1:03:16
  specifically this for
• 1:03:18
  example local infusion pairing idea we now we are more relaxed
• 1:03:23
  now we just say okay
• 1:03:24
  let's do it let's start in the in the way we will see if if it
• 1:03:28
  has a deepness if it
• 1:03:29
  has if it has substance and something else else something extra
• 1:03:34
  will appear that
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: will take this idea to a new level
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone for listening.
• 1:03:39
  That was Nicolas Tapia from Yum Cha in Santiago,
• 1:03:43
  Chile,
• 1:03:44
  a tea house restaurant tasting menu.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: with Chilean ingredients.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great experience.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Totally original.
• 1:03:56
  And it works because he's smart,
• 1:03:59
  as you probably heard from the interview.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't subscribed to the newsletter yet,
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: go to newwater.com or search for New Water on Substack.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: Paid subscriptions allow me to do what I do to keep this podcast going.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: So please contribute if you can.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: It means a lot.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: And a big thank you to my friend Pat Buzzard,
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: as always,
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: for providing the guitar that starts and ends the show.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.