Latest / Simply Bitcoin / The NEW MicroStrategy Bitcoin Copycat SOARS 4,800% | EP 1179

Transcript

The NEW MicroStrategy Bitcoin Copycat SOARS 4,800% | EP 1179 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Microstrategy's $91 billion infinite money glitch is
• 0:04
  beginning to go global. A company in Asia has stolen
• 0:09
  Michael Saylor's Bitcoin playbook to buy over 1700
• 0:13
  Bitcoin and has sent its stock soaring 4800% in the last 12
• 0:20
  months. However, this company in Asia is
• 0:22
  not the only one employing this tactic.
• 0:24
  There are now hundreds of companies buying Bitcoin for
• 0:27
  their corporate treasuries all around around the world.
• 0:31
  This global Bitcoin speculative attack movement is accelerating
• 0:36
  and man 4800% that's a 48X in 12 months.
• 0:42
  That's absolutely crazy. Today, joining us on the show we
• 0:45
  have Nick Newman. Nick Newman is the CEO of Casa
• 0:49
  and of course, my boy Opti, my legendary Co host in the Co host
• 0:53
  seat Opti. I mean this is absolutely crazy.
• 0:56
  Before we continue the conversation, let's let's some
• 1:00
  of what we're talking about. Let's check out the Yahoo the
• 1:03
  Yahoo finance article Bitcoin hoarders stock source 4800% in
• 1:10
  Japan on crypto rally and of course, what company am I
• 1:13
  talking about Shout out to our boy Dylan Leclair.
• 1:17
  It is metaplanet absolutely slaying the ripple effects of
• 1:21
  U.S. President Donald Trump's pro
• 1:23
  crypto agenda are fueling a surge in Bitcoin demand in Japan
• 1:28
  where one what hot dealers pivot to stockpiling the
• 1:33
  cryptocurrency is delivering eye watering returns for
• 1:36
  shareholders. I mean, you never see this.
• 1:39
  This is unheard of and it's crazy because I think when
• 1:43
  Michael Saylor started his Bitcoin accumulation strategy,
• 1:46
  the the total market cap of MicroStrategy was sitting at 1
• 1:49
  billion and currently when it reaches all time high, it was at
• 1:53
  100 billion. It's like 100 X the market cap.
• 1:56
  Seems like every company that's adopting Bitcoin is starting to
• 1:59
  yield the benefits of it. Anyways, the article continues
• 2:02
  to say shares of Metaplanet Inc are up around 4800% over the
• 2:08
  past 12 months, the largest gain among all Japanese equities in
• 2:12
  that period. I mean, that sounds very
• 2:13
  familiar, right? What was the bet?
• 2:15
  What was one of the best performing stocks of 2024?
• 2:18
  It was micro strategy and one of the highest globally according
• 2:22
  to data compiled by Bloomberg. Bitcoin itself hit a record of 1
• 2:26
  of $109,241.00 on January twenty 20th as Trump was sworn in for
• 2:32
  his second term. Although it's sense erased some
• 2:35
  of these gains as his trade policies fanned global
• 2:38
  instability. Metaplanet is one of a number of
• 2:41
  outfits around the world that aim to emulate the success of
• 2:44
  Michael Saylor's strategy formerly known as MicroStrategy.
• 2:48
  The Tyson Corners, Virginia based company has morphed into a
• 2:51
  leveraged Bitcoin proxy and a behemoth after accumulating more
• 2:55
  than 45 billion of the token. Metaplanet's CEO, Goldman Sachs
• 3:01
  equity derivatives trader Simon Gertrovich, said he was drawn to
• 3:05
  the idea after hearing about sailors strategy on a podcast.
• 3:09
  He'd been running Metaplanet, formerly Red Planet Japan Inc,
• 3:12
  as a hotel developer since 2013, but shifted to a quote Bitcoin
• 3:17
  first strategy in early 2024 after a pandemic slowed down for
• 3:22
  slow down forced the company to shutter all but one of its
• 3:25
  hotels. Since then, Metaplanet
• 3:27
  shareholders have increased to almost 50,000, growing by 500%
• 3:32
  in 2024, according to the company.
• 3:35
  Shareholders include Capital Group, which also invest in
• 3:38
  strategy, but the vast majority are retail investors, many of
• 3:42
  whom have limited experience with volatile crypto assets.
• 3:46
  Quote Metaplanet has such high exposure to the volatile retail
• 3:50
  base, it goes on to say quotes. They need to make sure
• 3:53
  shareholders understand exactly what their strategy is.
• 3:56
  I think. Just just my personal opinion
• 3:59
  here. I think they know exactly what
• 4:01
  they're getting into. And I mean, this is absolutely
• 4:05
  crazy for a company you can make a very strong argument for was
• 4:09
  essentially a zombie company. Essentially, the pandemic was
• 4:12
  really, really rough to this company.
• 4:14
  They pivoted. They followed the MicroStrategy
• 4:16
  playbook. And just like MicroStrategy,
• 4:19
  Metaplanet really isn't a hotel company anymore.
• 4:22
  It's like a Bitcoin holding company and it seems like they
• 4:25
  have first mover advantage in Japan and anyone who bought the
• 4:29
  share is up 4800% if you bought it at the bottom.
• 4:33
  Absolutely crazy. Here's another article by
• 4:36
  Coindesk. Metaplanet follows MSTR's lead
• 4:39
  announces a $11.3 million debt sale for additional Bitcoin
• 4:45
  purchases. So it seems like this infinite
• 4:47
  money glitch phenomenon is happening worldwide.
• 4:51
  People are looking at what Michael Saylor is doing with
• 4:54
  strategy. They're copying Michael Saylor's
• 4:57
  strategy and it seems like their stocks are benefiting from it.
• 5:01
  And it's not only in Japan. Saylor actually tweeted this
• 5:04
  this morning. Jet King is India's first
• 5:06
  publicly traded company to adopt the Bitcoin standard.
• 5:10
  He mentions the CFO explains why in the interview below.
• 5:14
  And it's about a 42 minutes, a podcast or interview where the
• 5:18
  CEO of Jet King explains why they're adopting a Bitcoin
• 5:21
  strategy. I would not be surprised
• 5:24
  whatsoever if their stock started going parabolic as well.
• 5:29
  And it seems like all these companies like they're
• 5:31
  forgetting their core businesses and they're just, they're just,
• 5:34
  they're just becoming Bitcoin holding companies.
• 5:37
  But I think the the question that is on everyone's mind is
• 5:41
  how long until companies like Google, companies like Amazon,
• 5:46
  companies like Facebook or better said, Meta?
• 5:49
  Take a look at. You know, these crazy
• 5:53
  performances by these companies like Strategy and Metaplanet and
• 5:57
  they say, you know what, it's probably a good idea to get some
• 6:00
  just in case this thing catches on.
• 6:03
  I think there's, I think they can only resist for so long
• 6:07
  until their shareholders revolt, in my personal opinion.
• 6:10
  I mean, we already had news coming out of Amazon, coming out
• 6:14
  of Meta that specific shareholders were basically
• 6:17
  saying, hey, you guys should take a look at this Bitcoin
• 6:20
  thing. And of course, we had the famous
• 6:22
  video from Michael Saylor where he had three minutes to make a
• 6:25
  presentation to Microsoft, basically making the case as to
• 6:29
  why they should adopt Bitcoin. And the TLDR of that video is
• 6:33
  Microsoft, you should have topped, you should adopt Bitcoin
• 6:36
  and you're going to have fun staying poor, which I thought
• 6:37
  was absolutely hilarious. But it was a master class by
• 6:40
  Saylor because what he was able to condense in 3 minutes, he
• 6:44
  just packed so much information there.
• 6:46
  Anyways, I'm going to pass it on to Nick.
• 6:48
  Nick, I mean, you're the CEO of a, of a, of a Bitcoin company,
• 6:52
  man. So we are here at simply so I
• 6:55
  think you know the benefits of having Bitcoin on your treasury.
• 6:59
  It is a literal cheat code that I think most of the world hasn't
• 7:03
  awakened to yet, but it seems like the public markets are
• 7:06
  starting to get a taste of it, and it seems like their stocks
• 7:10
  are performing because of it. Nick.
• 7:12
  Yeah, totally. I mean, and it's kind of funny,
• 7:14
  I didn't realize that Metaplanet was a a hotel company before.
• 7:18
  It's like they they pivoted from being a hotel company to being
• 7:22
  Hotel California for Bitcoin. You know, they, they want
• 7:26
  Bitcoin to come in and never leave.
• 7:29
  So I think that it's interesting to see these different types of
• 7:34
  companies. You know, I think Jack King is a
• 7:37
  education company, Metaplanet, the, the hotel company,
• 7:42
  Microstrategies, the, they've got all the business analytics
• 7:45
  and, and so it's these different types of core businesses, but
• 7:50
  from, for one reason or another, they, they maybe were stalled
• 7:54
  out on the business growth. And so they decided to pivot to
• 7:59
  take advantage of the growing Bitcoin standard, right?
• 8:03
  And that is something that gives you more treasury access and
• 8:08
  more treasury strength to then go build the rest of your
• 8:13
  business in a way that you have a a core advantage because
• 8:16
  you're using this better money asset on your balance sheet.
• 8:19
  And we've seen that for our business, you know, we hold a
• 8:21
  ton of our balance sheet at Casa in Bitcoin and and that's been a
• 8:26
  huge benefit to us over the years.
• 8:28
  And so all that comes, we don't have access to the public
• 8:32
  markets, right. So we're not going out and doing
• 8:35
  the financial engineering that sailors doing, but we accept
• 8:39
  customer payments in Bitcoin, right.
• 8:41
  And so we just don't sell the Bitcoin that we get from
• 8:44
  customer payments. And over the last five years
• 8:47
  that's built up into a pretty big stash of Bitcoin that has
• 8:51
  been really beneficial for us from a treasury perspective.
• 8:54
  So I think it's a huge benefit to companies, whether they're a
• 8:59
  Bitcoin startup or a large public company transitioning
• 9:03
  into Bitcoin, huge benefits from having Bitcoin on your balance
• 9:07
  sheet. Absolutely.
• 9:08
  And and especially to like, you know, Nick, I wouldn't consider
• 9:12
  you guys a start up at the at this point.
• 9:14
  But if you're a start up and like, you know, if you're just,
• 9:18
  you're just getting going like it's crazy having you know,
• 9:22
  20-30, forty, 50% of your treasury in Bitcoin and your
• 9:26
  runway gets bigger. That that is a very surreal type
• 9:31
  of you're looking at that you're like, no way, this is real.
• 9:34
  This, this can't be real. This is, this is fake.
• 9:37
  Because so many startups are used to, to burning the runway,
• 9:40
  right? And you're like, you're managing
• 9:42
  that going down. And with Bitcoin, it can expand
• 9:46
  and it can act if you do it right.
• 9:49
  You know, you, you didn't, you ideally didn't want to buy all
• 9:52
  your startups Bitcoin at 69 K before it crashed down to 20,
• 9:56
  right? But if you are doing it right,
• 9:58
  then it can provide significant runway expansion to the point
• 10:03
  where it's like you did another fundraise as a startup.
• 10:06
  Absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's it's an
• 10:08
  absolute cheat code. And I think the public markets
• 10:11
  are starting to get a taste of it.
• 10:13
  But it's it's interesting which companies are doing this right.
• 10:16
  Like Michael Saylor has said himself in previous interviews,
• 10:20
  like, I would have retired. I don't think MicroStrategy
• 10:23
  would have been competitive. Like this thing wouldn't have
• 10:25
  existed. And it's very similar.
• 10:27
  When you hear about this meta plan, it's like no one really
• 10:30
  knew what this company was. It was a hotel chain.
• 10:32
  The hotel chain was about to go out of business.
• 10:34
  And they look at Bitcoin. They're like, hey, you know what
• 10:37
  like this is, this is a good opportunity.
• 10:40
  It's, it's fascinating to see what Bitcoin has done to these
• 10:44
  companies that, you know, potentially you can make an
• 10:47
  argument wouldn't have existed 2-3 years from now if they
• 10:50
  remained on a Fiat standard. Not only has Bitcoin given them
• 10:54
  new life, they've made them the best performing stocks of the
• 10:58
  year. And these companies don't really
• 11:01
  like, look, I love Sailor. I, I like, I like strategy.
• 11:06
  I still don't really know what strategy does, right?
• 11:09
  I, I know that he buys a lot of Bitcoin with strategy and I know
• 11:11
  he, I know there is a software behind it.
• 11:15
  I, I know that. But I don't think a lot of
• 11:17
  people know what his core business is.
• 11:20
  And his core business makes revenue and makes money.
• 11:22
  It's real. It's not that it's, you know,
• 11:24
  it's fake or anything, but people don't really kind of buy
• 11:27
  MicroStrategy because of the core business.
• 11:29
  People buy MicroStrategy because of the Bitcoin that.
• 11:32
  He's especially now that he's doing the, the more financial
• 11:35
  like really leaning into financial engineering, right?
• 11:37
  So when he first started, he was buying Bitcoin mostly with his
• 11:42
  business's profits, right? And so that he had smaller buys
• 11:46
  on a regular basis. But then he figured out the the
• 11:49
  cheat code where he figured out he could go to market with
• 11:52
  either the at the market sales of his stock or putting out
• 11:56
  converts and just buy huge amounts of Bitcoin in the market
• 11:59
  just keeps eating it up. And so he's really, it doesn't
• 12:03
  even matter what micro strategies core or strategies
• 12:06
  core businesses like now, he's just a Bitcoin treasury company
• 12:10
  basically. Absolutely 100% and I think I
• 12:14
  think companies worldwide are are figuring that out too.
• 12:16
  Opti, what's your take on this bro?
• 12:18
  How was your weekend dude? My weekend was great.
• 12:21
  Thank you for asking. Well, first of all, I I want to
• 12:27
  I want to comment on the the Yahoo.
• 12:29
  Well, really it's a Bloomberg article that was reposted on
• 12:31
  Yahoo, but I really like the framing that they have there.
• 12:34
  What was it? Bitcoin hoarder stock goes
• 12:37
  absolutely nuclear like just as Bitcoin hoarder stock that I
• 12:41
  think that sums up perfectly kind of the mainstream
• 12:44
  perspective on Bitcoin. You know, we call it hodling.
• 12:47
  You know what, however framing you want to call it, but they're
• 12:50
  they're calling us hoarders and it really has a negative
• 12:53
  connotation. Obviously they'll probably be
• 12:55
  talking about the same flood lines we get all the time.
• 12:58
  You know what, what do they always say about Bitcoin?
• 13:00
  Like there's no yields, there's no cash flows to it, there's no
• 13:03
  intrinsic values. Why would you be holding this?
• 13:05
  And and they're kind of making us seem like we're just like,
• 13:08
  you know, collecting some Chuck E Cheese token over here, even
• 13:11
  how they framed it in in the article, but you know, millions
• 13:15
  of this token and it's really interesting to see them kind of
• 13:19
  wrap their heads around it. I would say it's most likely
• 13:22
  because they want to frame this in a negative direction, but I
• 13:25
  absolutely love this title. Bitcoin hoarder stock soars
• 13:28
  4800% like it. The cognitive dissonance that
• 13:31
  I'm seeing in this title is absolutely, and it's incredible
• 13:33
  here because you can tell they either know their audience
• 13:37
  doesn't understand Bitcoin and they don't really understand the
• 13:40
  strategy, but they're also kind of downplaying the fact that
• 13:42
  bitcoins, you know, going nuclear and making companies
• 13:45
  become even more profitable. But like Nick was saying, I
• 13:48
  think the interesting part about this is this idea that so many
• 13:52
  of these companies on every actually global corporations
• 13:55
  right now, a lot of them are essentially like zombie
• 13:58
  companies. And and you, Nico, you were
• 14:00
  bringing up the idea of sailor even said it himself.
• 14:02
  He's like, I was going to retire micro strategy or now strategy.
• 14:06
  It wasn't really doing anything, you know, I was on my basically
• 14:09
  my, my last nerve here wondering what I should do, scratching my
• 14:13
  head. And then I found Bitcoin.
• 14:16
  And I think this is also just a, a perfect summary of what it
• 14:20
  means to become a bitcoiner. You, you know, you learn about
• 14:23
  Bitcoin, you kind of come in and it's a speculative thing.
• 14:26
  You kind of get interested about it.
• 14:28
  And then once it finally clicks, you change everything about your
• 14:31
  company, everything about your life.
• 14:33
  And you're like, Oh my goodness, this Bitcoin thing is absolutely
• 14:36
  the best thing ever. I need to get as much of it as
• 14:39
  possible. So it is very interesting to see
• 14:42
  these you, you could argue maybe smaller corporations that are a
• 14:46
  little more nimble, that do have founders that have control of
• 14:49
  their company being able to pivot and just be like, look,
• 14:52
  yes, I was a hotel business. Yes, I was a business analytics
• 14:56
  company. But now I am turning my company
• 14:59
  into basically a Bitcoin bank like I just acquired Bitcoin and
• 15:03
  and it's going to make my stock go absolutely insane and my
• 15:06
  shareholders are going to be super happy about it.
• 15:08
  So I find it very interesting. One, of course, the Yahoo title
• 15:11
  will rather Bloomberg title here and this idea that once you
• 15:14
  start to understand Bitcoin, you kind of have to reevaluate
• 15:18
  everything about your core business and if you're capable
• 15:21
  of obviously just turn it into a Bitcoin business.
• 15:23
  But it's also kind of a testament to what a lot of
• 15:26
  Bitcoiners in our chat always talk about.
• 15:28
  It's like, look, I, I just, you know, I mine Fiat and I save it
• 15:32
  in Bitcoin and my life gets that much better.
• 15:35
  If, if we all were corporations, you know, like Sailor, like the
• 15:39
  metaplanet CEOs, you just fundamentally change your whole
• 15:42
  core business to acquire as much Bitcoin as possible and your
• 15:46
  shareholder value is going to go crazy.
• 15:47
  So hey, will we see, will we see Tim, Tim Cook do the same thing,
• 15:52
  not making any more iPhones and he's just going to stack as much
• 15:55
  Bitcoin? Ever, ever.
• 15:56
  All companies worldwide, they just stopped producing products.
• 15:59
  We're just going to pivot to buying Bitcoin.
• 16:01
  Well, I wouldn't want to see that.
• 16:03
  I I like Apple products, but you know, it's kind of interesting.
• 16:06
  I mean, I think what's it's interesting like is, is that
• 16:10
  sustainable, right? Is it sustainable for more
• 16:12
  companies to just become these Bitcoin acquisition vehicles?
• 16:17
  And I think probably no, I think that realistically you'll get
• 16:22
  one to two Bitcoin acquisition vehicles per public market
• 16:28
  region that really gains the mind share.
• 16:30
  So it's, it's kind of a jurisdictional or like
• 16:33
  geographical play, right? Like strategies done this in the
• 16:37
  US and then similar scientific is maybe like the next biggest
• 16:41
  one in the US, but it's a huge gap between the two.
• 16:45
  And then Metaplan, it's gone and done this in Japan, Jet King's
• 16:49
  doing this in India. And I think that you like, once
• 16:52
  you've got that vehicle, once the public market investors have
• 16:55
  that vehicle, that's the one where most of the money is going
• 16:59
  to flow towards. And then it's unlikely that
• 17:02
  you'll just see a bunch of other public companies purely pivot to
• 17:06
  this Bitcoin treasury company strategy because I don't think
• 17:10
  the market dynamics will work in the same way.
• 17:12
  And so then the rest of the companies, what they're going to
• 17:14
  be doing is they're actually going to be using Bitcoin more
• 17:17
  strategically to accomplish the goal of their underlying my
• 17:20
  business. And so then it's like, how can I
• 17:22
  use Bitcoin as a treasury asset to keep building the product
• 17:27
  that I want to build, but do it in a more advantageous way?
• 17:30
  And I think that's where the real like widespread adoption of
• 17:34
  Bitcoin as a treasury asset will come from is those types of
• 17:38
  companies. Less so everybody trying to copy
• 17:41
  Sailor because eventually that runs out and after you tap all
• 17:44
  the different geographies. I, I know, 100% agree, because
• 17:48
  if you do like the a little bit of math, right, like the amount
• 17:51
  of cash that Apple or Google is sitting on and the amount of
• 17:55
  purchasing power they're losing on a yearly basis is a
• 17:58
  ridiculous amount. That money could be, you know,
• 18:02
  allocated to R&D or marketing or like all, you know, all these
• 18:05
  things like that. It's like a melting ice cube.
• 18:08
  I mean, Sailor has said it himself, right?
• 18:11
  And with that additional capital, think about it's, it's
• 18:13
  not only additional capital, that capital is actually
• 18:17
  increasing and purchasing power every single year.
• 18:19
  It obviously allows you to, I think as, as we felt as as
• 18:23
  Bitcoin, you know, company entrepreneurs and stuff, It
• 18:27
  allows you to invest some of that capital back into your
• 18:29
  company to make your company better rather than the existing
• 18:33
  Fiat system where it's, it's, it's terrible.
• 18:35
  It's like, it's like an additional tax.
• 18:36
  So the taxes that you're already paying, right?
• 18:39
  So, yeah, I, I think that this phenomenon, I think what's
• 18:41
  happening with strategy and Metaplanet, I think it, it's
• 18:46
  essentially taking advantage of the system.
• 18:49
  And I I, and that's why the, the stocks have exploded as, as as
• 18:53
  much as they have. But like you, like you said,
• 18:55
  Nick, I don't think the long term, I don't think the party is
• 18:59
  going to continue forever. I think they're, they're
• 19:02
  obviously fulfilling a market need.
• 19:04
  There's a lot of companies that can't legally get exposure to
• 19:08
  Bitcoin ETFs or spot Bitcoin. So they obviously buy strategy
• 19:12
  instead. And I think a very similar
• 19:13
  phenomenon is happening in in in Japan as well.
• 19:16
  So anyways, guys, before we start the show, we have tons to
• 19:19
  talk about today. Specifically, there's some
• 19:22
  interesting things that were happening and Coinbase, the
• 19:26
  amount of money that has been lost to social engineering scan,
• 19:31
  it's an absurd amount, over $300 million.
• 19:35
  Zach XPT wrote a great thread about it and our friends over at
• 19:40
  Casa, we're talking about it as well.
• 19:42
  And then during the news segment, I find this very
• 19:46
  interesting. We're going to be talking about
• 19:48
  where Bitcoin belongs in your retirement plan.
• 19:50
  And again, just as we've been talking about how Bitcoin is a
• 19:55
  cheat code, if you put it on your treasury, that applies to
• 19:58
  your personal finances as well, like Bitcoin is a cheat code.
• 20:02
  It's pretty crazy. So we have all that content left
• 20:06
  for you guys. We have a hell of a show, but
• 20:08
  before we jump into it, I do want to give a very special
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• 23:11
  I also want to give a shout out to the 1700 of you guys watching
• 23:14
  live between YouTube and X and the 100 or so of you guys
• 23:18
  watching live on rumble. If you guys are enjoying the
• 23:21
  show so far, smash the like button on YouTube.
• 23:25
  We just broke 100 likes. Help us break 150 likes within
• 23:28
  the 1st 30 minutes of the show. So there's almost 500 of you
• 23:32
  guys watching live on YouTube alone.
• 23:33
  Smash that like button. At the time of recording the
• 23:37
  Bitcoin price is 97,280, Block height 800, 83,197 sats per
• 23:43
  dollar 1028 market cap 1.93 trillion Bitcoin versus gold
• 23:48
  market cap 9.5% Percentage issued 94.39% Decline from all
• 23:55
  time high -10.9% Realize monetary inflation 1.01%.
• 24:02
  In the grand scheme of things, we are just getting started
• 24:06
  Anyways. Nick pointed this out to us in
• 24:08
  the beginning of the show. We were originally going to
• 24:10
  cover something different, but then Nick pointed this out to
• 24:12
  us. I'm like, we have to cover this
• 24:14
  because this is absolutely crazy.
• 24:17
  And remember guys, we are huge advocates of self custody.
• 24:21
  The entire show is essentially telling you to take self
• 24:25
  custody. The partners who we choose to
• 24:27
  partner with enable you to take self custody of your Bitcoin.
• 24:31
  And again, one of the one of the easiest and fastest way to get
• 24:36
  your essentially your, your Bitcoin rugged by leaving it on
• 24:39
  an exchange. And the exchange doesn't even
• 24:41
  need to be hacked, right? You could just be social
• 24:44
  engineered or your e-mail address is hacked and then
• 24:48
  hackers get access to your exchange and then they just take
• 24:52
  out all your Bitcoin. This is why cold storage is so
• 24:55
  important. But it's not just cold storage
• 24:58
  you got to you got to take cold storage properly.
• 25:01
  And there's many different ways to do that.
• 25:02
  And we're going to talk a lot about that during the culture
• 25:05
  segment today. But anyways, let's get into the
• 25:07
  thread by Zach X BT Over the past few months, I'm I imagine
• 25:13
  you have seen many coin base users complain on X about their
• 25:16
  accounts suddenly being restricted.
• 25:19
  This is the result of an aggressive risk of aggressive
• 25:22
  risk models and Coinbase's failure to stop its loser, its
• 25:26
  users from losing 300 million per year to social engineering
• 25:32
  scan that is, that is absurd. That is a crazy, crazy, crazy
• 25:38
  crazy that that's a lot of money.
• 25:40
  ANYWAYS, myself and another person by the name of Tang Kui
• 25:45
  42 spent time reviewing Coinbase withdraws and gathering data
• 25:49
  from my DMS for high confidence thefts on various chains.
• 25:54
  Below is a table we created which shows 65,000,000 stolen
• 25:58
  from Coinbase users in December 2024 through January 2025.
• 26:03
  Our number is likely much lower than the actual amount stolen as
• 26:07
  our data was limited to my DMS and dense we discovered on
• 26:11
  chain, which does not account for Coinbase support tickets and
• 26:15
  police reports we do not have access to.
• 26:18
  He goes on to say. Let's walk through how these
• 26:21
  Coinbase social engineering scams work.
• 26:23
  A victim reached out to me last month after losing 850,000.
• 26:28
  That's Oh my God. Graphing out this theft led to a
• 26:32
  consolidation address with 25 other victims tied to Coinbase.
• 26:37
  Huddle dot ETH goes on to say the scammer called the victim
• 26:42
  from a spoofed phone number and use personal information
• 26:45
  obtained from private DBS to gain their trust.
• 26:48
  After they told the victim their account had multiple
• 26:51
  unauthorized login attempts, they sent.
• 26:54
  They then sent a spoofed e-mail which appeared to be from
• 26:58
  Coinbase with a fake case ID for their gaining trust.
• 27:01
  They instructed the victim to transfer funds to a Coinbase
• 27:05
  wallet and whitelist an address while support verified their
• 27:08
  account. Security scammers clone the
• 27:11
  Coinbase site nearly one to one. Allow the scammers to send
• 27:15
  different prompts to the target via spoofed emails using panels.
• 27:19
  There are many Telegram channels where scammers advertise them.
• 27:23
  See examples of various panels used by scammers below.
• 27:27
  Last year I posted multiple examples of Coinbase user
• 27:30
  thefts, all for millions of dollars.
• 27:33
  The two main groups conducting these scams are Skids from the
• 27:36
  COM and the Threat Actors located in India, both primarily
• 27:40
  targeting US customers. The other month, a Coinbase
• 27:43
  employee told people on X to stop using VPMS to avoid being
• 27:48
  flagged as suspicious. Meanwhile, threat actors will
• 27:51
  explicitly block VPNs from phishing sites and not use them.
• 27:55
  This shows Coinbase's failure to diagnose the actual problem, and
• 28:00
  it continues. Now I know Nick, you guys
• 28:02
  reacted to this over over you, you reacted to this personally
• 28:06
  and I know lap reacted to this. This is your this is one of your
• 28:11
  posts and you made a video about it as well.
• 28:13
  Today, Zach XPT shared research showing that at least 65 million
• 28:17
  in crypto has been stolen in Coinbase social engineering
• 28:20
  scams in just the last two months.
• 28:23
  The main point in in your security is you.
• 28:27
  What do you mean by that? And what can people do to
• 28:30
  protect themselves from these types of attacks, Nick?
• 28:34
  Yeah. So the first of all, this was
• 28:36
  crazy to me that so much money had been stolen from people on
• 28:40
  Coinbase and that they still haven't really done something
• 28:44
  about it. And so this is like Coinbase has
• 28:48
  a a very trusted position in our industry just due to the number
• 28:52
  of people that use it. And so this that makes them a
• 28:55
  huge honeypot. And this is a a huge problem for
• 28:57
  them if if they're losing $300 million plus per year, right.
• 29:02
  And and that's just an estimate of probably the lower end of the
• 29:05
  range. So Coinbase needs to be doing a
• 29:08
  better job about this. But self custody is one of the
• 29:12
  best ways you can protect yourself against this.
• 29:14
  And we'll go in, we'll go into that.
• 29:15
  But when I say that the in my tweet that the main weak point
• 29:19
  in your security is you, what I mean is that a lot of times
• 29:24
  these people are giving access to their Coinbase account to the
• 29:29
  social engineers, right? And so they've got somebody
• 29:32
  calling them who who has some information on them that the
• 29:37
  victim thinks, Oh, it would have to be Coinbase if they know this
• 29:40
  about me. That's not true.
• 29:42
  Like somebody, your addresses, your phone numbers, your e-mail,
• 29:47
  all that stuff is out there for people to find.
• 29:50
  And from one of the many hacks, right, like AT and TS been
• 29:55
  hacked how many times? I don't know.
• 29:57
  So all that stuff is out there. So somebody calls you and they
• 30:00
  say, hey, I'm with Coinbase. There's a problem with your
• 30:02
  account. Let me give you some information
• 30:04
  that I've stolen from somewhere else on the web.
• 30:07
  And this is going to trick you into thinking that I'm from
• 30:10
  Coinbase and here to help you. And they really rely on scaring
• 30:14
  you like they get you into this state of, of anxiety and fear.
• 30:19
  Oh, is there actually something wrong with my, the funds in my
• 30:23
  Coinbase account when there there isn't anything wrong with
• 30:26
  it. And then they, they'd walk you
• 30:28
  through this whole script where they eventually trick you into
• 30:31
  basically sending them the Bitcoin.
• 30:34
  It's not even, but often times they aren't even like taking
• 30:38
  over your account. Sometimes they figure out how to
• 30:40
  take over your account directly, but a lot of times they are
• 30:44
  actively tricking you into just sending your Bitcoin to them.
• 30:48
  And so this is where I get to like the main weak point is your
• 30:51
  in your security is you, right? If you let yourself get into
• 30:55
  this state where you're worried about losing money, you give up
• 30:59
  all of your logical kind of processing power and suddenly
• 31:04
  they have full control over you. And so the best thing you can do
• 31:09
  in these scenarios is one, don't answer the phone to an unknown
• 31:12
  number to start with, But two, if you think that this, there
• 31:16
  might be something fishy here or Coinbase is calling you or
• 31:20
  whoever it is, Casa is calling you, whoever it is like, just
• 31:23
  take a step back and say, whoa, hang on a second, is this real?
• 31:26
  Maybe I should take a breather here and let your your logical
• 31:30
  mind come back a little bit. Yeah.
• 31:33
  And I think I think they also prey a lot on on people that
• 31:37
  perhaps are a little bit older and they're used to getting
• 31:40
  those types of calls from their banks, right.
• 31:43
  And, you know, they sound super legit.
• 31:45
  And it was it was it was actually really interesting.
• 31:47
  Nick, I was going to say funny, but interesting is the better
• 31:50
  word. You actually answered one of
• 31:53
  these calls yourself and you recorded it, which I thought was
• 31:59
  hilarious is a terrible word because it's all this money is
• 32:02
  being stolen. But I think it was, it was, it
• 32:04
  was, it was interesting that, you know, one of the leading,
• 32:09
  you know, Bitcoin security company CEOs picks up one of
• 32:12
  these scam calls. What, what, what was one of the
• 32:15
  things that you experienced is that you noted from, you know,
• 32:18
  from, from the scammer. I mean, I highly recommend
• 32:23
  people go in and watch that because it gives you so much
• 32:26
  insider info as to how they pull off these scams and how they
• 32:31
  trick people, right? It's on my Twitter profile and
• 32:34
  it's the pinned tweet and it's a 14 minute video and it's
• 32:39
  entertaining and kind of a sick way, honestly.
• 32:42
  But it's also very educational so you know what to look out
• 32:45
  for. The one of the things that I
• 32:47
  took away from it though is they are looking for very easy
• 32:53
  targets. The name of the game for them is
• 32:56
  cold call hundreds of people a day, find the easiest possible
• 33:01
  target for them to to hook fast and then move on to the next
• 33:05
  one. And so it's all a volume game.
• 33:08
  So if you are just slightly more difficult than the next person,
• 33:13
  they will hang up and move on, right?
• 33:15
  And so if you just take that breather, you can get them to to
• 33:20
  move on and, and not mess with you in that instance.
• 33:23
  And so that's one of the many things that I, I think I took
• 33:28
  away from it. But it's we're actually, I've
• 33:30
  attempted this a couple of times, right, to record these
• 33:33
  guys when they call me. And the first time it, I was
• 33:37
  following along with them as they were sending me the spoofed
• 33:42
  e-mail from Coinbase. The the text confirming that,
• 33:46
  you know, they were a Coinbase representative and I saved all
• 33:50
  this stuff. And we're actually, we're going
• 33:52
  to publish a second video soon. That is well, that first one was
• 33:57
  more about like this guy kind of bragging about how they do all
• 34:00
  this stuff. The second one is actually me
• 34:03
  going through the steps to get social engineered and then
• 34:09
  stopping at the point where I thought, oh, this is where they
• 34:12
  could actually steal anything that's in my account, right?
• 34:15
  And then calling him out and trying to get him to talk about
• 34:18
  it. And that's when he hung up.
• 34:19
  But up to that point, you know, I've got all the things like
• 34:22
  they sent me this e-mail, they sent me this text message.
• 34:24
  Here's what the guy's saying. And so we'll have more of that
• 34:28
  stuff coming to help people just educate themselves because
• 34:30
  that's what you got to do, right?
• 34:31
  You got to educate yourself to know how to protect yourself.
• 34:37
  And like you said, this isn't just a problem for for Bitcoin,
• 34:42
  right? Like this happens with older
• 34:45
  people with their normal bank accounts all the time.
• 34:48
  I was talking to a friend of mine who works at a bank and he
• 34:51
  said that they have problems with us where you know, some
• 34:55
  elderly person will get social engineered with their bank
• 34:58
  account and then they've got maybe a day to try and reverse
• 35:02
  that payment or it's just gone. So it's a big problem and and
• 35:06
  honestly, this is one of the things that self cost that the
• 35:09
  right type of self custody helps to solve.
• 35:13
  Yeah, absolutely. And again, self custody comes
• 35:16
  with a lot of responsibility. And I think that there is like
• 35:20
  a, there is a, a mental shift that people I think are going to
• 35:26
  have to go through, you know, over the next decade or so as,
• 35:33
  as, because it's not just self custody of, of, of, of your
• 35:37
  money. It's, it's, it's your identity.
• 35:40
  Also, it's your digital identity.
• 35:42
  And I think, you know, as we transition from the analog era
• 35:46
  to the information era, it becomes even more important.
• 35:49
  Like people don't really understand the significant
• 35:54
  because it comes with the pros are freedom, the pros are
• 35:57
  autonomy, the pros are sovereignty.
• 36:00
  The cons is there is no one 800 number to call if you get
• 36:04
  hacked. There is no one 800 number to
• 36:06
  call if your seed phrase gets exposed for whatever reason,
• 36:11
  there is no 1800 and then not. And I, I want to save this
• 36:14
  conversation for the, the culture segment.
• 36:17
  But if like for whatever reason, people know that you're taking
• 36:23
  self custody of your Bitcoin, how do you protect yourself from
• 36:26
  $5 wrench attacks, right? How do you take advantage of,
• 36:30
  of, of playing, of keeping your seeds in different locations,
• 36:37
  pretend potentially different jurisdictions, right, to kind of
• 36:41
  play into your security setup. And these are very important
• 36:45
  questions that people are not asking because they're they've
• 36:48
  been conditioned to outsource that responsibility to a
• 36:52
  financial institution. Now that we're heading into the
• 36:55
  era of self custody of people reclaiming back their financial
• 36:58
  sovereignty using Bitcoin. You got to look into multi sig,
• 37:02
  you got to look into how to take, you know, the different
• 37:05
  hardware wallets that exist. You got to look into the
• 37:07
  different solutions like Casa. We're going to talk about that
• 37:10
  during the culture segment. You got it.
• 37:12
  You got to do that. If you want to become a
• 37:14
  sovereign individual, you got to put in the work to become a
• 37:18
  sovereign individual and you got to you got to put in the
• 37:20
  research. So I think I'm really looking
• 37:23
  forward to that second in video, Nick, that you guys are going to
• 37:25
  come out with. I know June Seth has done a
• 37:28
  great job exposing some of these scammers as well.
• 37:33
  Do you want to chime in before we move on to the new side?
• 37:35
  Yeah, well, I was just going to really comment.
• 37:37
  I didn't watch Nick's video, but now I'm going to because the
• 37:40
  June Seth series was like incredible to listen and kind of
• 37:44
  get into the mind frame and, and the amount of bragging that that
• 37:48
  you heard on those and you know, they were just very cold blooded
• 37:52
  to say like put it lightly. And there is like a lot to learn
• 37:57
  from this. Obviously maybe you think that
• 37:59
  you are a super bitcoiner here and that it this could never
• 38:03
  happen to you, but they even get people that have been doing it
• 38:06
  for a while. And so it is very interesting to
• 38:08
  just hear how the social engineering happens.
• 38:10
  Obviously protecting yourself, but also kind of knowing how to
• 38:13
  protect your, your friends and your family.
• 38:15
  And I'm, I'm glad that Nick said that.
• 38:17
  You know that one thing that I know I do is I just literally
• 38:20
  don't pick up random phone number.
• 38:21
  I don't respond to random emails.
• 38:23
  It's like if it's there and even personally like knowing that I
• 38:27
  have a good self custody set up, you even start to feel like you,
• 38:30
  if you see those emails, you're like, oh, wait, did I leave
• 38:33
  something on there? Did you know, am I actually
• 38:36
  being at risk here? So even someone that does it
• 38:38
  correctly, you still feel that. And then imagine if you don't
• 38:41
  really understand what you're doing.
• 38:43
  So it's very easily to be socially engineered here, but it
• 38:47
  it's always, it's always very eye opening to see these or hear
• 38:50
  these recordings and see how they do it.
• 38:53
  And it's just incredible how much money people lose.
• 38:55
  And that's why we constantly try to tell you guys to take things
• 38:58
  slow, take things into self custody and really prepare
• 39:02
  yourself. So I'm super glad we brought
• 39:03
  this up, but that that thread by Zach XBT is crazy. 300 million
• 39:08
  plus like. That's crazy. 300 million a
• 39:10
  year, bro, a year, which is minimum, absolutely gnarly,
• 39:14
  gnarly and 65,000,000 the last two months alone.
• 39:17
  Anyways, guys, we're going to hit the news segment.
• 39:18
  We're going to talk about Bitcoin, your retirement, how
• 39:22
  you should custody that Bitcoin. We'll be right back.
• 39:25
  I want to give a. Shout out to our sponsor Casa.
• 39:28
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• 39:43
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• 39:46
  stolen, your funds stay safe. No single point of failure
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  failure, no stress. That's what I absolutely love
• 39:53
  about these guys. They make taking Bitcoin into
• 39:56
  self custody incredibly easy with their best in industry user
• 40:00
  experience through their app. I've been personally
• 40:02
  recommending Casa for years now to my friends and family because
• 40:06
  they will get all the benefits of multi key self custody
• 40:09
  security without the hassle of having to learn complicated UI.
• 40:14
  And if you're thinking of one day passing on your Bitcoin to
• 40:16
  the next generation, their inheritance plan has you covered
• 40:20
  also. If you're a business looking to
• 40:22
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• 40:26
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• 40:31
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• 40:43
  I want to give a shout out to our sponsor foundation.
• 40:46
  It's self custody done right. They built a premium grade
• 40:49
  hardware wallet called Passport right here in the US and it
• 40:53
  integrates seamlessly with their free app called Envoy.
• 40:57
  Passport is fully open source and verifiable.
• 41:00
  It's the most intuitive Bitcoin wallet designed with a UX
• 41:03
  reminiscent of a classic feature phone, so you'll know how to
• 41:07
  navigate it and use it the moment you pick it up.
• 41:10
  It's also air gaps, meaning Bitcoin stays offline, never
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  touching an Internet connection. It's Bitcoin only open source,
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  and into your own hands in just a few minutes with Passport at
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  foundation dot XYZ slash. Simply get Peace of Mind for
• 41:33
  your piece of Bitcoin. All right, guys and FY yes, Casa
• 41:43
  is a partner and your passport is compatible with Casa because
• 41:48
  I know I'm going to get that question.
• 41:49
  So yeah, definitely check it out.
• 41:51
  I think the topic not I think the topic of today's news
• 41:55
  segment is why Bitcoin belongs in your retirement plan.
• 42:00
  There's a clip from legacy media and then I'm going to take a
• 42:04
  look or share the the website priced in Bitcoin 21 and of of
• 42:10
  course, Jimbo's calculator. When Moon given my Bitcoin
• 42:13
  stack, when can I retire anyway? So check out the clip 30. 5% of
• 42:17
  Americans felt like they were, that is.
• 42:18
  Way too fast. It comes to saving for
• 42:20
  retirement. Let's try that one more time.
• 42:22
  35% of Americans felt like they were significantly behind when
• 42:25
  it comes to saving for retirement.
• 42:27
  That's according to Bank Rates Retirement Survey.
• 42:29
  Now, one asset that you may not have considered adding to your
• 42:33
  retirement portfolio? Cryptocurrency joining me now in
• 42:37
  studio with more we've got Chris Klein who is the COO and Co
• 42:40
  founder of Bitcoin IRA. Chris, great to have you here in
• 42:43
  studio with us. Now you say that there are three
• 42:47
  things that typically draw investors to crypto.
• 42:50
  So let's start with asymmetry. Why is that appealing?
• 42:53
  So just getting yourself as a potential hedge against other
• 42:56
  problems in the marketplace. Also just getting off a zero and
• 43:00
  having an opportunity. This is a big shift in monetary
• 43:02
  policy that's happening. And for the first time in about
• 43:05
  100 years from the White House, we're getting an executive
• 43:07
  orders. They're saying, hey, this is
• 43:09
  time for national sovereignty and for individuals like
• 43:11
  yourself, individual sovereignty with your portfolio.
• 43:14
  You're also looking at this as an inflation hedge.
• 43:16
  That's part of the top three things that you're looking for
• 43:19
  and reasons why investors tend to turn to Bitcoin for
• 43:22
  retirement saving. Just break that down for us in
• 43:24
  the inflation hedge that Bitcoin could be for retirement.
• 43:27
  Savings. So it comes down to scarcity.
• 43:28
  There's only 21 million Bitcoin that'll ever exist. 19 and a
• 43:31
  half million of them are accounted for.
• 43:34
  We haven't seen this kind of scarcity since the 1920s,
• 43:36
  nineteen 30s. So to get there'll be a day
• 43:39
  where they'll say, wow, you're A1 Bitcoiner and it'll be a life
• 43:42
  changing experience for those folks.
• 43:44
  Interesting and said and lastly within that volatility and
• 43:48
  hedging against volatility, I mean Bitcoin and crypto more
• 43:52
  broadly initially and continue to be known as a more volatile
• 43:56
  asset. So how does having and gauging
• 43:59
  that volatility, how does that work within a retirement
• 44:01
  strategy? Well, you're more of a long term
• 44:03
  thinker or as we call a long term huddlers in the crypto
• 44:06
  space. So when you're in your
• 44:08
  retirement setting, you're thinking 35, maybe even 7 to 10
• 44:11
  years out. But volatility is a reality
• 44:13
  walking in and especially this year we're going to have price
• 44:15
  discovery. Tom Lee and others are calling
• 44:17
  for maybe 2 hundred $250,000 for a Bitcoin.
• 44:20
  We're sitting just around 102. So it's very interesting the way
• 44:25
  that the the anchor freight, the the anchor kind of phrased it in
• 44:30
  terms of, yeah, volatility, like volatility is a bad thing.
• 44:33
  Volatility is dangerous, volatility is negative.
• 44:37
  But if if you take a look at the data, that's why I love this
• 44:40
  website priced in Bitcoin 21, everything, the S&P 500, you
• 44:47
  know, even with housing prices doubling in the United States,
• 44:50
  gold, oil, everything is down against Bitcoin, especially the
• 44:55
  longer, the longer term view you look, you look at it like it,
• 44:59
  it's pretty crazy. Like even the S&P is down 77%
• 45:04
  compared to Bitcoin gold 94% a house 90% cheaper compared to
• 45:10
  Bitcoin oil, 94% cheaper. The dollar.
• 45:13
  I mean, we all know this. It's obvious.
• 45:16
  And I think that leads me to my, to my next question is Nick,
• 45:20
  what is, what is the role of Bitcoin in, in people's
• 45:23
  retirement? What, what, how should people
• 45:25
  look at Bitcoin and see in and see Bitcoin potentially as a
• 45:29
  tool to, you know, live the life they want to live in the future?
• 45:34
  And then my second question to that is how should they be
• 45:38
  storing that Bitcoin and how, how, what type of tools are
• 45:43
  there for them to potentially pass it on to the next
• 45:47
  generation in terms of inheritance?
• 45:50
  Yeah. So I think the the interest in
• 45:53
  the the guy in the video kind of eluded or said this.
• 45:57
  But the interesting thing about putting Bitcoin in a retirement
• 45:59
  account is you are necessarily just taking a very long term
• 46:02
  view on the assets in your retirement account.
• 46:05
  And most people just have kind of an auto buy going in their
• 46:09
  retirement account, right? Especially when you're a little
• 46:12
  bit younger, you're not planning to retire for maybe 30 years or
• 46:15
  so. So you just had, you're buying
• 46:20
  indexes, right? That's, that's what people
• 46:22
  historically have done. You just are always putting your
• 46:24
  money into Vanguard or whatever the index is.
• 46:27
  And what's interesting about it is like a lot of times when
• 46:30
  you're young, you're, you're starting out, you want you,
• 46:33
  you're taking this long term view.
• 46:35
  And so the, the Vanguard, you know, tools will suggest, Oh,
• 46:39
  you should have maybe 90% or more of your portfolio in
• 46:46
  equities and that's going to provide kind of the, the best,
• 46:51
  best return over a long period of time, as long as you're
• 46:55
  willing to weather some of these ups and downs where equity is
• 46:59
  more volatile. And then as you get older, it
• 47:00
  starts to suggest, oh, maybe you should have some bonds in here
• 47:03
  and stuff so you have less volatility.
• 47:05
  Well, Bitcoin is, is incredibly volatile as well or has been
• 47:10
  historically and we'll see what happens going forward.
• 47:12
  But it's been incredibly volatile.
• 47:15
  But for the people who have held over a long period of time,
• 47:20
  they've had immense long term gains, right.
• 47:23
  And so that mindset matches up very well for retirement
• 47:28
  accounts. And then you add on the fact
• 47:31
  that for certain types of retirement accounts, when you
• 47:33
  actually pull the money out, it can be tax free.
• 47:37
  All the gains, capital gains are tax free.
• 47:40
  And so this is a huge benefit for owning Bitcoin in a
• 47:45
  retirement account. So that's the first to answer
• 47:48
  the first question there, like why would you, why would you
• 47:50
  think about owning Bitcoin in a retirement account?
• 47:52
  And then the second one is how would you, how can you hold
• 47:55
  Bitcoin in your retirement account?
• 47:57
  I think the most basic way is if you're, if you've got kind of a
• 48:01
  classic 4O1K or something like that right now, your main option
• 48:06
  is the ETF for having Bitcoin in that account.
• 48:10
  There is also a less known type of account called a
• 48:15
  self-directed IRA. And with this you can actually
• 48:18
  self custody the Bitcoin that's in your IRA.
• 48:22
  And so there's certain limits on, you know, whether you can
• 48:25
  have that type of IRA or not, how much money you can put into
• 48:28
  it on an ongoing basis. But for people with that type of
• 48:32
  IRA, they can self custody their Bitcoin, which is great from a
• 48:35
  security perspective. And for the people who maybe
• 48:37
  have a four O 1K and don't have access to that, that
• 48:41
  self-directed IRA or have a really large balance sitting in
• 48:44
  a four O 1K already, and they want to move some of it into
• 48:47
  Bitcoin, generally the ETF is going to be the best vehicle for
• 48:50
  that, which I think is one of the the huge benefits of the
• 48:53
  ETFs coming to market. Like whereas overall I'm a big
• 48:57
  self custody advocate, right? That's where what we've built
• 49:00
  our whole company around. The ETF is great for some of
• 49:03
  these more restricted accounts like retirement accounts where
• 49:06
  you want the long term tax benefits but you weren't able to
• 49:10
  access Bitcoin through that before.
• 49:13
  Yeah. And and I I agree.
• 49:15
  And and I think the IT, it, it kind of the, it depends on, on
• 49:19
  the situation, right. Like if, if you're an older, if
• 49:22
  you're an older person, right, the ETF things look very, very
• 49:25
  appealing to you. You just go log into your
• 49:28
  Charles Schwab account, Bom, Bing bom boom, you know, you're
• 49:31
  buying Bitcoin. I think if, if, if you're
• 49:34
  younger, right, the, the whole self custody thing.
• 49:37
  I, I think there, there there's like a, there's like an
• 49:39
  ideological component to it as well.
• 49:41
  I think a lot of us lived through the 2008 financial
• 49:44
  crisis. We're not exactly fans of of the
• 49:47
  legacy financial system and I think self custody is our way of
• 49:51
  protesting. It's like a it's a very peaceful
• 49:54
  protest. It's basically saying like,
• 49:55
  look, I'm going to you guys could have fun with that.
• 49:58
  I'm going to opt out of the system entirely and I'm going to
• 50:02
  take custody of my keys. Opti, what are your thoughts
• 50:04
  brother? Yeah.
• 50:06
  Well, not to really rehash what Nick was saying because he, I
• 50:09
  think he absolutely hit the nail on the head.
• 50:11
  My more interesting take on this is the fact this is, this is
• 50:15
  even being played on the, you know, the corporate press right
• 50:18
  now. The fact that we've gotten to
• 50:19
  the point in 2025 where they're talking about Bitcoin being a
• 50:24
  form of wealth to retire on just goes to show how far we've kind
• 50:28
  of come in this whole Bitcoin journey.
• 50:31
  Because for a long time, anytime they talk about Bitcoin on the
• 50:34
  television, it was always either a speculative asset or, you
• 50:37
  know, it's for criminals, etcetera.
• 50:39
  And now we're getting to the point where they're like, hey,
• 50:41
  you know, boomers out there, you you might have never heard of
• 50:45
  this Bitcoin thing and it's the way for you to retire or
• 50:48
  obviously for us younger people and personally, you know, I
• 50:51
  don't have an IRA or a four O 1K.
• 50:54
  My retirement is Bitcoin. And so I am the living example
• 50:57
  of this. But it is interesting that
• 50:58
  they're getting this message out for more people where they're
• 51:00
  like, hey, maybe here's one thing that you haven't really
• 51:03
  considered. It is holding Bitcoin long term,
• 51:06
  like we were saying, you know, 7 to 10 years out holding Bitcoin,
• 51:10
  it will be your retirement. I, I think that is like the big
• 51:13
  silver lining here is that we've gotten to this point now where
• 51:16
  it's actually being taken seriously from the suits and
• 51:20
  the, you know, the smart money out there.
• 51:22
  They're like, hey, maybe this Bitcoin thing is something that
• 51:24
  you can retire on for the future.
• 51:26
  And I think that's only going to increase and probably by the end
• 51:30
  of this year, obviously by the next cycle, I think it's going
• 51:33
  to become very common knowledge that, hey, maybe you're going to
• 51:37
  get outsize gains by just holding Bitcoin versus putting
• 51:40
  money in a four O 1K or, you know, just a standard IRA and
• 51:44
  maybe you want to go to these Bitcoin Roth Iras, etcetera.
• 51:47
  And I think this is just how far we've come in the last couple
• 51:50
  years where Bitcoin is legitimized now, or at least at
• 51:53
  the very beginning of being legitimized.
• 51:55
  That's something that you want to hold long term that you can
• 51:58
  live on for the rest of your life and that will be there for
• 52:00
  you when things are uncertain. Especially when you kind of look
• 52:04
  at the outsize gains for Bitcoin compared to a standard, you
• 52:07
  know, 4 O 1K or just holding stocks, etcetera, and all the
• 52:11
  crazy uncertainties in the world right now.
• 52:14
  I'm super glad we've got to this point now where they're at least
• 52:16
  starting to talk about Bitcoin in the way that we've talked
• 52:19
  about it. And now it's seemingly becoming
• 52:22
  that every corporate press out there will eventually become a
• 52:25
  Bitcoin propaganda machine. So I am super hyped on that.
• 52:29
  Absolutely, Absolutely. Before we move on, guys, I, I do
• 52:33
  want to show you something that's a fan favorite here at
• 52:36
  simply Bitcoin, which is Jimbo's moon calculator.
• 52:39
  So we'll pull it up and I'll, I'll, I'll essentially explain
• 52:43
  to Nick what it is. Essentially, Nick, this is like
• 52:45
  an open source like code that a buddy of ours wrote.
• 52:49
  And essentially it's when moon a given my Bitcoin stack, when can
• 52:54
  I retire? What what what is a fan favorite
• 52:57
  here is people will plug in numbers, so I'll pass it on to
• 53:01
  you. Just hypothetically, of course,
• 53:05
  you know went what is the just for the sake of the show your
• 53:11
  stack size in BTC. Just an example point 5.1.
• 53:15
  I never revealed this, so I'm going to leave it at the default
• 53:18
  one. I didn't ask you for your actual
• 53:21
  stocks, I just just just for the audience as an example.
• 53:25
  I don't know, let's, let's see what what's what's the new goals
• 53:28
  here in 2025 for Bitcoin? I've been seeing what is it 10
• 53:32
  million sets point 1.21. Should we do .1 OK?
• 53:37
  Or maybe no, let's do .5 do half a coin.
• 53:39
  Have someone new here, do you agree?
• 53:41
  Are we going with half a coin that?
• 53:43
  Sounds great, yeah. Half a coin, All right, your
• 53:46
  desired income in today's dollars.
• 53:51
  I mean, I'm assuming when I retire I won't be supporting
• 53:55
  kids or anything like that and we'll won't be living like too
• 54:00
  crazy of a life. So let's say the desired income
• 54:03
  needed necessary income for like me and my wife is probably let's
• 54:07
  call it 100K or something. Under K Boom.
• 54:10
  Although with inflation by that point, maybe it's got to be a
• 54:13
  million. It's in today's dollars.
• 54:14
  In today's dollars. As today's dollars and then it
• 54:17
  asks you what the annual USD supply increase, So what the
• 54:21
  what the inflation? Rate fan favorite part.
• 54:24
  Yeah. All right.
• 54:25
  So what's What's the annual US inflation?
• 54:28
  Yeah. What what do you think it is
• 54:29
  that's that's basically the question that we always kind of
• 54:32
  pose to the audience. We have what what's the official
• 54:35
  numbers is right. Three percent, 3%.
• 54:39
  We all. Think it's a little higher. 8.
• 54:43
  8% all right. And now I think this is like the
• 54:46
  the biggest, the biggest, the biggest factor here.
• 54:50
  What do you think is going to be the annual Bitcoin appreciation
• 54:53
  rate, Nick? Yeah.
• 54:54
  So I think, I think we've got one more set of like pretty big
• 55:01
  leg UPS from from like a big burst in adoption like at the
• 55:05
  government level and that kind of thing.
• 55:07
  And then it's going to become more steady.
• 55:11
  So I would say I'd put this how long is this supposed to be?
• 55:18
  Or it's calculating the number of days so.
• 55:20
  Yeah, it's basically saying like, look, with .5 a hundred,
• 55:24
  you want 100,000. The annual The annual inflation
• 55:27
  rate is 8 percent 45. OK, that's 35 No 45. 45 Oh, I
• 55:34
  like. That on the chat, Nico.
• 55:36
  For I like that. OK, So the the personal moon
• 55:40
  date for someone who has 505 hundred million, Yeah.
• 55:44
  Is it 50 million sacks? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 50 million
• 55:49
  sats. Your personal moon date would be
• 55:53
  2031. That's when you'd be able to
• 55:56
  start withdrawing from your stack.
• 55:59
  And this is assuming also that you're not going to add to your
• 56:01
  stack as well with it with the desired annual income of 100K
• 56:08
  and you'll be able to essentially retire at 2031,
• 56:13
  you'll be able to start withdrawing from that .5
• 56:16
  Bitcoin. That's why I absolutely love
• 56:18
  this calculator. It's a huge fan favorite.
• 56:21
  It's completely open source. You guys could plug in the
• 56:23
  numbers there are we? Sure this website isn't run by
• 56:26
  the IRS well. This is why we say don't plug in
• 56:32
  your numbers. Yeah, hypothetical numbers.
• 56:34
  Exactly, exactly. This is.
• 56:36
  This is all hypothetical. This is what the chat is asking
• 56:39
  for. You know, this is all just for
• 56:42
  the sake of a example and, you know, having fun and all that.
• 56:46
  So yeah, guys, go check out Wen Moon.
• 56:48
  It's a fan favorite from Simply. You drop the link in the chat,
• 56:51
  people are asking for it. Absolutely.
• 56:53
  And let's also let's get on to the culture and we're going to
• 56:58
  talk about Casa and how you guys could use Casa as a self custody
• 57:04
  solution. They make multi sig incredibly
• 57:07
  easy. I've been recommending them to
• 57:09
  friends and family for a very, very long time now, so we're
• 57:13
  going. To talk about all that during
• 57:14
  the culture segment, we will be right back.
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  your success. All right, everybody, so let's
• 58:57
  let's talk about Casa. Let's talk about all things
• 58:59
  Casa. Like I said, huge fan of this
• 59:02
  company. You've been been a huge fan of
• 59:04
  this company for a very long time because I am essentially
• 59:08
  the de facto Uncle Jim for my entire family.
• 59:12
  And obviously I want my entire family taking self custody of
• 59:16
  their Bitcoin. And I think Casa allows you to
• 59:19
  do that without all of the I, I would say the UI complexities.
• 59:25
  I think the UI is is I think the UI have a lot of Bitcoin
• 59:31
  software for you know, I don't want to I don't want to specify
• 59:35
  a specific demographic, but let's just say people that
• 59:39
  aren't living and breathing Bitcoin, they aren't on Bitcoin
• 59:42
  Twitter 24/7. They aren't consuming Bitcoin
• 59:45
  podcast 24/7. They're just trying to get by,
• 59:48
  you know, like my parents, like my, like my immediate family.
• 59:53
  You know, this is the app that I recommend for them because
• 59:56
  obviously I want them to have the security of multi sig.
• 1:00:01
  But I also don't want them to essentially get so in over their
• 1:00:05
  heads in terms of their setup that they can't access their
• 1:00:09
  Bitcoin. Because that's another thing
• 1:00:11
  that people forget about Bitcoin and security.
• 1:00:14
  It's not how you can make 2 mistakes.
• 1:00:18
  You can make your security so sophisticated that you yourself
• 1:00:21
  lose access to your Bitcoin and then you can make your your
• 1:00:25
  security so weak that you know your Bitcoin gets hacked.
• 1:00:28
  You want that happy medium right and I think that's what you guys
• 1:00:31
  do incredibly, incredibly well. Nick over Acosta, especially
• 1:00:35
  with the UI that you guys have with the app that you guys have,
• 1:00:39
  it makes it incredibly easy for someone to set up a multi sig
• 1:00:42
  wallet without them really needing a lot of technical know
• 1:00:47
  how it's it's it's really straightforward.
• 1:00:50
  The emails that people get the you know, the the you can you
• 1:00:55
  connect your Ledger, the with the with the passport.
• 1:00:58
  It's awesome. Now you don't even have to
• 1:01:00
  connect it to a computer. You can just do you can just,
• 1:01:04
  you know, use the camera feature and scan the QR code just from
• 1:01:08
  the phone. You don't even have to connect
• 1:01:09
  it to a computer anymore. You guys do a really really good
• 1:01:13
  job at making multi sig incredibly easy for the everyday
• 1:01:19
  person that wants to benefit from multi sig security.
• 1:01:23
  Thank you. Yeah, that's the that's the
• 1:01:25
  goal, right? When we, when we created Casa,
• 1:01:27
  we realized it was just too hard to hold your own keys.
• 1:01:30
  People were doing all these crazy things to try and make it
• 1:01:34
  safer. And we recognize that there is a
• 1:01:37
  huge need to just give people a basic like balanced, really
• 1:01:43
  robust security model where we walk them through end to end.
• 1:01:47
  Here's how you do it in a well designed way and get as many
• 1:01:51
  Bitcoiners as possible secure. And so it's been a ton of fun to
• 1:01:56
  build over the last six years. Now we've been around for quite
• 1:02:00
  a long time and I think really built up a lot of trust and in
• 1:02:04
  the community for for doing a good job securing a lot of
• 1:02:08
  Bitcoin. So this is something that like,
• 1:02:12
  if you think about it, the main goal of what we do is just
• 1:02:15
  remove single points of failure. So remove the single point of
• 1:02:19
  failure of your Coinbase account getting social engineered,
• 1:02:22
  remove the single point of failure of a treasure or a
• 1:02:27
  mobile wallet or something like that, that could be wrench
• 1:02:30
  attacked. Remove the single pointed
• 1:02:33
  failure of the what happens if your house burns down, which
• 1:02:37
  we've actually had happen. And so there's a lot of these
• 1:02:40
  different potential things that can happen when you self
• 1:02:43
  custody. And, and what we do is try to
• 1:02:45
  build a a system that helps you protect yourself against all
• 1:02:49
  these different things without having to put in hours and hours
• 1:02:53
  of work yourself to understand and figure out how to do it.
• 1:02:59
  Absolutely. And I just kind of want to walk
• 1:03:01
  through a lot of this, right. So is it cost a standard plan?
• 1:03:06
  And then if you compare that to like a single sig set up, right,
• 1:03:11
  it protects you from accidental loss.
• 1:03:13
  How? Because cost actually holds one
• 1:03:15
  of the keys in the two of three set up.
• 1:03:17
  So essentially you're responsible for two of the three
• 1:03:20
  keys. If you lose one of those keys,
• 1:03:22
  you can always go to Casa and they'll sign that transaction
• 1:03:27
  for you. But I think there's a security
• 1:03:28
  protocol, I think it's seven days, I believe before you guys
• 1:03:32
  sign off on, on that transaction.
• 1:03:36
  So again, this is like, and this has happened to me without
• 1:03:41
  getting into any specifics, but this has happened to me with
• 1:03:45
  family members where I set them up on Casa on one of the two
• 1:03:50
  plans and they lose a key and they freak out.
• 1:03:54
  They're like like I lost the key and I'm like, no, don't worry
• 1:03:58
  because through the app with that that you guys have, it
• 1:04:01
  actually makes replacing a key incredibly easy.
• 1:04:04
  You don't really have to do anything.
• 1:04:05
  You just plug in the new Ledger and it just replaces the key.
• 1:04:10
  I don't know some magic is happening in the back end, but
• 1:04:13
  it essentially this is, I don't want to say idiot proof, but
• 1:04:16
  like you guys are making it really, really difficult for
• 1:04:19
  people to lose their Bitcoin the way that the cost app.
• 1:04:23
  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta mess up multiple times, right?
• 1:04:26
  And so you have to like stack mistakes on top of each other,
• 1:04:30
  which is, which is what we're trying to do because security's
• 1:04:33
  never going to be perfect, right?
• 1:04:35
  Like there, it's always this dance between the threats and
• 1:04:40
  the protect and the protection against those threats.
• 1:04:43
  And So what you're trying to do is just build like layers of
• 1:04:46
  security and hope that if one of those layers fails, then you've
• 1:04:51
  got this second layer that can still help you, you know,
• 1:04:55
  recover funds, that kind of thing.
• 1:04:56
  And so like AI think a good example of this is we actually
• 1:05:00
  had a client whose house burned down recently and he had a key
• 1:05:06
  and a seed phrase backup stored in the part of his house that
• 1:05:10
  burned down. Luckily it wasn't the whole
• 1:05:11
  house. It was like a segment of it.
• 1:05:13
  And normally you'd be freaking out about this, right?
• 1:05:17
  Because you've lost the seed phrase, you've lost the hardware
• 1:05:21
  wallet, that's all of your money gone.
• 1:05:23
  And what actually happened was he just called us and said, hey,
• 1:05:28
  lost one of my keys, can you send me a new one?
• 1:05:31
  And we sent him a new one. We replaced the key and then
• 1:05:34
  he's back to full health. And so whether you're using Casa
• 1:05:38
  or not, you want to think about ways that you can add these like
• 1:05:42
  extra layers of redundancy and security into your overall setup
• 1:05:45
  because that will make you more secure.
• 1:05:48
  So like on the social engineering side, for example,
• 1:05:50
  whether you're using Casa or or not, you want to make sure that
• 1:05:55
  for your main Bitcoin stash that you aren't planning to do
• 1:05:58
  anything with except for hold for a long period of time.
• 1:06:01
  You want to make sure you can't access that immediately, right?
• 1:06:05
  So even if somebody were to call you and try to trick you into
• 1:06:09
  sending them your Bitcoin, you're like, hey, I got to hang
• 1:06:12
  up and go drive to this other place or maybe fly to this other
• 1:06:16
  place in order to get my keys in order to send you this Bitcoin.
• 1:06:20
  That suddenly puts you above the threshold of like too much
• 1:06:24
  difficulty. And so then they move on to
• 1:06:27
  somebody else. So it's all about adding these
• 1:06:29
  layers of security into your setup, whether you're using Casa
• 1:06:33
  or not. Absolutely no, I completely
• 1:06:36
  agree. And again like it's all about
• 1:06:39
  redundancy, right. And the other plan that you guys
• 1:06:43
  offer as well is the premium, which is essentially a three of
• 1:06:47
  five. But essentially it really does
• 1:06:50
  feel like a two of three just because the mobile key, the
• 1:06:54
  signing process of it is like pretty seamless in terms of how
• 1:06:59
  it feels from a user experience. But essentially you have three,
• 1:07:02
  you have, yeah, you have 3 keys, hardware wallet keys that that
• 1:07:06
  you want to obviously take care of.
• 1:07:09
  And you have a mobile key. So one of the keys is on your
• 1:07:13
  phone and it is backed up to the iCloud or the Google equivalent.
• 1:07:17
  I don't know what that's called. So you can essentially transfer
• 1:07:22
  it from 1 phone to the other. And then of course, you have the
• 1:07:25
  recovery key that Casa holds and it's a three of five.
• 1:07:29
  So you need 3 signatures out of five in order for you to spend
• 1:07:33
  that Bitcoin. But what's really awesome about
• 1:07:36
  this type of setup is the you could do this with the two of
• 1:07:40
  three as well with the standard plan.
• 1:07:43
  But you can really get very clever in terms of where you're
• 1:07:47
  going to put the keys and stuff. And you guys, you know, come up
• 1:07:50
  with different names in terms of there's one key in the office,
• 1:07:53
  there's one key at home, there's one key in the safe, right?
• 1:07:57
  And, and that allows you essentially to spread out your
• 1:08:00
  keys over various locations. Not only does that protect you
• 1:08:03
  from a $5 wrench attack, but that also protects you from
• 1:08:07
  natural disasters. I mean, what happened in Los
• 1:08:09
  Angeles recently with the fires so, so bad and it, you know,
• 1:08:15
  terrible. And actually, we, we know
• 1:08:17
  Bitcoiners that their homes burned down.
• 1:08:19
  Like we know Bitcoiners whose homes have burned down.
• 1:08:22
  So having your keys, your seeds in different, different
• 1:08:27
  locations protects you not only from the like the $5 rent
• 1:08:32
  attack, but also protects you from from natural disasters as
• 1:08:36
  well. Like you never know, Like did
• 1:08:38
  you think that was going to happen in in a very populated
• 1:08:41
  part of Los Angeles? Like no one knew that was going
• 1:08:43
  to happen, right. And again, it also gives you the
• 1:08:47
  flexibility of losing one of those keys and not losing access
• 1:08:53
  to your Bitcoin, right? So I think that's really
• 1:08:55
  important as well. Now, I think the question that I
• 1:08:58
  have for you, Nick, is can you talk to us a little bit about
• 1:09:02
  like Casas holding one of the keys?
• 1:09:04
  What can they do? What, what could you guys do
• 1:09:07
  with one of those keys? I think a lot of people maybe
• 1:09:09
  they like they just don't understand the technicalities of
• 1:09:12
  it. And what are you doing to ensure
• 1:09:16
  the security of those keys as well?
• 1:09:18
  So in case someone does lose two of those 5 keys and they they
• 1:09:23
  want to have access to your Bitcoin, how can they know for
• 1:09:26
  certain that they can rely on you guys?
• 1:09:28
  Yeah. So the first thing to know is
• 1:09:31
  that Casa doesn't KYC some of the other multi sig options out
• 1:09:36
  there, they KYC you as part of the overall solution and we
• 1:09:41
  don't do that. So you can sign up completely
• 1:09:44
  anonymously, like you can make a alias for your ProtonMail
• 1:09:48
  address if you want to, you can pay us in Bitcoin.
• 1:09:51
  So we don't have any information from credit cards.
• 1:09:54
  Like you can be as private or as not private with us as you want.
• 1:09:58
  And that's we're following the law completely by doing this
• 1:10:02
  right. And so we have really built our
• 1:10:05
  business in a privacy first way. So you can first know KYC with
• 1:10:11
  us and then second, how do we use that key?
• 1:10:13
  Well, one of the the interesting things is like, all right, we
• 1:10:17
  haven't KYC Ed you. So how do we make sure that it's
• 1:10:19
  actually you requesting this key?
• 1:10:21
  And part of the way we do that is we build in time.
• 1:10:25
  So at our standard plan, if you request that key, you're going
• 1:10:28
  to answer some security questions and then it's a seven
• 1:10:31
  day wait before we sign the transaction or approve the
• 1:10:35
  transaction with our key, which still is just one of the keys
• 1:10:39
  that you need. You're going to have to bring
• 1:10:41
  some amount of your keys, right? So at the standard level, it's a
• 1:10:45
  seven day wait. At the premium or above level,
• 1:10:48
  it's a 2 day wait. And instead of a, a security
• 1:10:51
  questions, we actually do a video call with you to make sure
• 1:10:54
  you're not under duress. You know, everything's OK.
• 1:10:58
  And you actually did ask us to, to use our key to help you move
• 1:11:02
  Bitcoin. So this is we built all these
• 1:11:05
  kind of security procedures around here to, to keep it
• 1:11:08
  private while also keeping it very secure to use that key.
• 1:11:12
  And then the second thing you're asking about is just how do
• 1:11:16
  people know that we've got that key secured?
• 1:11:19
  And while I don't go into like the specifics of how this key is
• 1:11:23
  secured, it's backed up in multiple geographies offline,
• 1:11:27
  you know, and it's never been on the Internet.
• 1:11:29
  It's not a hot key, it's a total cold key that requires a person
• 1:11:34
  to actually go and use it. And so we've put all these all
• 1:11:38
  the best possible protections around this key to make sure
• 1:11:42
  that you've, you have, you can count on Casa, right?
• 1:11:46
  That being said, let's say something were to happen to the
• 1:11:50
  Casa key. We've designed Casa in a way
• 1:11:53
  that you are not actually reliant on Casa being around or
• 1:11:59
  being able to sign with our key or anything like that, right,
• 1:12:02
  Because it's just one key out of your multi sick, you hold the
• 1:12:06
  majority of your keys. And so we're removing single
• 1:12:10
  points of failure and that includes Casa ourselves.
• 1:12:14
  So that that's a bit about the Casa key.
• 1:12:16
  And I think it's, it's an important part of people set up
• 1:12:19
  because they know they can count on us, but it's also a really
• 1:12:22
  critical part of the inheritance set up.
• 1:12:25
  We use that to help people's beneficiaries actually recover
• 1:12:29
  Bitcoin in case they pass away. And so that that additional like
• 1:12:33
  kind of trusted security point with us has been really
• 1:12:37
  beneficial for people using Casa.
• 1:12:40
  And let me ask you to let me ask you another question, Nick, that
• 1:12:43
  perhaps isn't obvious to the audience.
• 1:12:45
  By the way, shout out to the 2700 of you guys watching live
• 1:12:48
  right now, 450 of you guys watching live on YouTube,
• 1:12:52
  roughly 100 of you guys watching live on Rumble and 2256 of you
• 1:12:57
  guys watching live on X. If you guys are enjoying the
• 1:12:59
  show so far, smash the like button.
• 1:13:03
  Nick, I think second to final question is what happens if Casa
• 1:13:08
  disappears? Can people still access their
• 1:13:11
  Bitcoin wallet? Let's say you guys go out of
• 1:13:13
  business for whatever reason or you know, there's a regulatory,
• 1:13:17
  you know, like last year, you know, with operation Choke .2
• 1:13:22
  point OA lot of us were feeling a certain way about running a
• 1:13:24
  Bitcoin business in the United States, in the United States,
• 1:13:27
  right? So can people still sovereign
• 1:13:30
  recover their Bitcoin wallets? Yeah, of course, this is one of
• 1:13:34
  the best things about using Casa, right, is, is sovereign
• 1:13:37
  recovery. They're your keys, you're
• 1:13:40
  holding the keys. So all you do is take, we give
• 1:13:43
  you a file that's it's called a wallet descriptor file.
• 1:13:46
  But you copy paste this bunch of text, you go over to Sparrow or
• 1:13:52
  or your your multi sig wallet of choice that you want to do
• 1:13:55
  sovereign recovery with paste it in there.
• 1:13:57
  Boom, there's your wallet, there's all your Bitcoin.
• 1:14:01
  And then you use the keys that you have in order to to move the
• 1:14:04
  Bitcoin out into and into a setup that's not Casa related.
• 1:14:08
  You know if something happened to Casa overnight.
• 1:14:11
  And so this is one of the most important parts about not not
• 1:14:19
  relying on Casa as a single point of failure, right?
• 1:14:22
  We always want to make sure that you can take your Bitcoin and
• 1:14:27
  exit Casa without us being in the middle at all.
• 1:14:31
  And so we've built a lot of pieces of the app around this,
• 1:14:35
  right? So As for example, you've got
• 1:14:38
  the mobile key in the Casa app and you need, you need to have
• 1:14:42
  that seed phrase from that mobile key as part of the
• 1:14:45
  sovereign recovery setup. But let's say Casa servers go
• 1:14:49
  down overnight. We've actually built an offline
• 1:14:53
  mode in the Casa app where you can go in, open up the Casa app,
• 1:14:57
  it'll know it can't talk to our servers.
• 1:14:59
  But that key is on your phone. And so you can just hit export
• 1:15:02
  on that key, get the seed phrase for that key, and then plug that
• 1:15:05
  into Sparrow as one of the keys in your multi sig.
• 1:15:08
  So we've done a lot of work to make sure that this is very
• 1:15:12
  recoverable in case something happens to Casa and that you can
• 1:15:15
  still always access your Bitcoin without us being in the mix.
• 1:15:19
  I love that. And I just want to like kind of
• 1:15:21
  summarize a lot of things that you said, right?
• 1:15:24
  No KYC very important completely sovereign recover, meaning you
• 1:15:30
  don't have to go through the Casa app in order to access your
• 1:15:33
  Bitcoin. And it also also functions as a
• 1:15:36
  fail safe like God forbid you lose one of your.
• 1:15:39
  I mean, this is been doing this for nine years.
• 1:15:41
  I've seen everything that I'm Nick.
• 1:15:43
  I'm sure you're in the same situation.
• 1:15:45
  Anything that you think could happen with custody and just
• 1:15:48
  dealing with individuals, like people lose their seeds all the
• 1:15:52
  time because they don't put as much significant.
• 1:15:54
  They think it's just a piece of paper or they think it's just a
• 1:15:57
  piece of metal. And then they value the, this is
• 1:15:59
  the most common thing I've noticed.
• 1:16:01
  They value the hardware more than the paper.
• 1:16:04
  They don't realize the the the seed words is your money.
• 1:16:07
  And then they're like, Oh, I still have the hardware, but I
• 1:16:11
  forgot the pin like, Oh my God. And then it's like, do you have
• 1:16:14
  the paper? It's like, no, like this.
• 1:16:16
  This is where you want redundancies.
• 1:16:19
  You want, but you want you want to give space for people to make
• 1:16:23
  the mistake because if you're on a single sig setup and you make
• 1:16:27
  that mistake, it's gone. There is no, it's over.
• 1:16:31
  And and there's there's horror stories of people basically
• 1:16:34
  saying like I have one more pin attempt.
• 1:16:36
  I don't have the seed words and I have one Bitcoin on there.
• 1:16:39
  I have 10 Bitcoin on there. That's like life changing.
• 1:16:42
  We, we just, we just did the Wen Moon calculator .5 right?
• 1:16:46
  So, yeah, it's so many redundancies.
• 1:16:49
  And I think it's a really, really useful tool for people
• 1:16:53
  that perhaps feel a little bit intimidated by, you know, the,
• 1:16:57
  the, the, the UI of a lot of these wallets.
• 1:17:01
  Or perhaps you're just an OG hodler.
• 1:17:03
  This is a great redundancy tool to have to add to yourself
• 1:17:08
  custody set up on the way in becoming a sovereign individual
• 1:17:12
  man, you got to look at all the tools that Bitcoin has given
• 1:17:15
  you. And one of the things also to
• 1:17:17
  Nick, that perhaps people don't understand is you guys built all
• 1:17:21
  of this on top of the existing Bitcoin protocol.
• 1:17:24
  This you guys aren't doing anything like, you know,
• 1:17:28
  anything separately that this is all built on top of Bitcoin.
• 1:17:32
  And what you guys did is you guys improved the UI
• 1:17:36
  dramatically to so that people can access it without perhaps
• 1:17:41
  feeling a little bit intimidated.
• 1:17:42
  Right, Yeah. And I think it's worth
• 1:17:45
  mentioning like you don't just have to forget your PIN for the
• 1:17:48
  single sig to to go wrong, right, Like you can.
• 1:17:53
  We've seen hardware wallets break more often than you would
• 1:17:56
  like. And so that's something that is
• 1:18:00
  like the screen just stops working and maybe you have your
• 1:18:03
  PIN but you're not able to access the hardware.
• 1:18:05
  And then if you don't have the seed phrase, then you've lost
• 1:18:07
  all your money. I think it might be worth it to
• 1:18:10
  like do a rapid fire. There's been a few questions in
• 1:18:13
  the chat and I can go through and like rapid fire answer those
• 1:18:17
  as we wrap up. Go for it.
• 1:18:20
  OK, so. Yeah, just comment and I'll pull
• 1:18:23
  them up. Yeah.
• 1:18:25
  So one guy asked any data breaches on their end?
• 1:18:29
  No, we haven't had any data breaches.
• 1:18:32
  And to protect yourself against that kind of thing, we recommend
• 1:18:36
  like if you're worried about that, use a, use a special
• 1:18:39
  purpose e-mail that doesn't have your name in it.
• 1:18:42
  And then, you know, all that shows up is this kind of random
• 1:18:46
  e-mail and any sort of data breach, right?
• 1:18:48
  And then the rest of the information we try to get rid of
• 1:18:52
  as quickly as possible. So for example, if you are
• 1:18:55
  getting an onboarding package from you, we'll send you the
• 1:18:58
  onboarding package and then delete your address so that
• 1:19:00
  we're not holding people's addresses in our database, which
• 1:19:03
  is was a big thing that we learned from the Ledger breach a
• 1:19:07
  few years ago. Right.
• 1:19:09
  So somebody, OK, somebody mentioned my Casa
• 1:19:12
  representative. Brian is awesome.
• 1:19:14
  Can confirm, Brian is awesome. One of the somebody said, hey,
• 1:19:19
  why do I need to use Casa if I could do this myself?
• 1:19:24
  And I can't find the exact comment here, but the reason to
• 1:19:29
  yeah, there we go. So if I, if I can do sovereign
• 1:19:32
  recovery, why do I involve Casa at all?
• 1:19:35
  And it's because the sovereign recovery is there for when, if
• 1:19:39
  things go badly at Casa, right? But then we've built all these
• 1:19:44
  other things that you can really only get through a service
• 1:19:48
  provider like Casa while Casa is is doing fine.
• 1:19:52
  So yes, you can go set up a Sparrow wallet with the same
• 1:19:55
  kind of underlying security of Bitcoin multi sig, right?
• 1:19:59
  But what Sparrow's not going to give you is an advisory team
• 1:20:02
  that helps you whenever you need it, like.
• 1:20:05
  Brian, who will get on a call with you and actually walk you
• 1:20:08
  through how to set this up. It's not going to give you an
• 1:20:10
  inheritance feature where you can make sure that your family
• 1:20:15
  members can actually still access your Bitcoin in case
• 1:20:18
  something ever happens to you. Asking your family members to
• 1:20:22
  try and figure out how to use Sparrow is like you know they're
• 1:20:26
  mind blown, right? And so knowing that they have a
• 1:20:28
  a really simple way to use it and actually somebody on the
• 1:20:32
  Casa end to walk them through everything, give some people a
• 1:20:36
  lot of Peace of Mind and then there.
• 1:20:40
  There's two late, late the the two latest questions, Nick.
• 1:20:44
  So Nick, do you have any specific signing device upon
• 1:20:47
  setup so typically? So it depends on the plan that
• 1:20:51
  you're at, right? But if you're signing up for a
• 1:20:53
  standard plan, you can bring any of the major hardware wallets.
• 1:20:58
  We support Trezor, Ledger cold card Passport, and then we also
• 1:21:03
  added support for UB keys, which are are really easy to use and
• 1:21:07
  we're the only place that's doing that right now.
• 1:21:10
  And so this is you can bring kind of any of these major
• 1:21:14
  signing devices with you. And then you can also, if you're
• 1:21:18
  signing up for a premium or a private client plan, we just
• 1:21:21
  send you a box that has all the hardware that you need.
• 1:21:24
  And you can talk to our team at the private client level and
• 1:21:27
  request that we send you custom ones like, oh, I want to make
• 1:21:30
  sure I have a cold card in here kind of thing.
• 1:21:35
  This last question from Craig, are all Casa features available
• 1:21:38
  in the UK? Yes.
• 1:21:40
  So we're available globally because we don't KYC and because
• 1:21:45
  it's a self custody wallet, that's one of the benefits of
• 1:21:48
  self custody, right. So if if you are using Casa, you
• 1:21:54
  can use it from anywhere in the world.
• 1:21:56
  There's only really like one thing that's not available
• 1:22:00
  globally, which is what we call enhanced verification for
• 1:22:04
  inheritance. And this is just where we'll
• 1:22:06
  actually have a couple of extra steps to verify that a client
• 1:22:11
  actually passed away. But that starts to to kind of
• 1:22:14
  tiptoe into KYC area anyway, where if you want to take
• 1:22:17
  advantage of that, you got to give us some extra info.
• 1:22:19
  So we have to go and actually make sure like we've checked
• 1:22:23
  against the death certificate and all that kind of thing.
• 1:22:26
  We we have a really good question here from JH, which is
• 1:22:29
  how can I, how can we feel confident that seed phrases
• 1:22:32
  aren't leaked from a bad actor doing an update on these apps
• 1:22:34
  went online. Yeah, good question.
• 1:22:37
  So we have a very robust internal process for actually
• 1:22:42
  like pushing updates to the Casa app, right.
• 1:22:46
  And so the Casa app doesn't have your seed phrase sitting in it.
• 1:22:51
  The seed phrase is actually stored on your phone, encrypted
• 1:22:55
  by the secure element. And so the that phrase is never
• 1:23:00
  getting sent to Casa servers. But let's say something went
• 1:23:03
  wrong and the Casa app was hacked or whatever and somebody
• 1:23:08
  got access to that seed phrase. You still have one, maybe up to
• 1:23:13
  three keys that you're holding that are separate from the Casa
• 1:23:17
  app on hardware that's completely offline that you need
• 1:23:21
  in order to move the funds. And so even if the worst case
• 1:23:25
  scenario happened in the Casa mobile app was hacked, you don't
• 1:23:29
  lose your money because that Casa mobile app is not a single
• 1:23:33
  point of failure. So this is when I go back to
• 1:23:36
  like, what are those layers of security that we've built in?
• 1:23:39
  This is an important one. Not every private key that you
• 1:23:44
  are using with Casa should be generated online by Casa, right?
• 1:23:48
  And that's that's where the hardware wallets come in.
• 1:23:51
  Gotcha gotcha. Anyways, we are getting to the
• 1:23:55
  top of the hour of the show. Do you want to give a shout out
• 1:23:59
  to her 2855 live members watching Shout out to all you
• 1:24:04
  guys. Shout out to the YouTube
• 1:24:05
  audience. Shout out to the rumble
• 1:24:06
  audience. If you guys enjoyed the show,
• 1:24:08
  smash the like button go check out Casa dot IO slash simply
• 1:24:13
  today. I do want to thank our guest
• 1:24:15
  Nick Newman, the CEO of Casa for joining us, a legendary Co host
• 1:24:20
  Optimus Fields. Guys, we love you all, smash the
• 1:24:22
  like and consider subscribing and we'll see you tomorrow for a
• 1:24:25
  brand new episode of Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:24:28
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
• 1:24:31
  Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
• 1:24:34
  independence.