Latest / Integrity at Scale™ / The Owner's Room: When the Old Vision Stops Working
Transcript
- Alrighty folks, you are listening to the Culture Focused Practice podcast. I am your host, Dr. Tara Vossenkemper, and today is as per usual, one of my favorite episodes. It's an owner's room episode. So owner's room style episodes are a series of questions, usually five to six that I have not given any real thought to. I just choose them and then I sit down to record and then I explore them in real time, followed by one to two scenarios. We're only gonna do one today, and they all center around a specific topic. So when we're thinking about leadership, there's like a strange moment in leadership where our vision, the thing that usually gives us momentum. Basically stalls out, like it just stops working. Something about the vision doesn't fit, and you're getting no momentum from it. This is not because the vision is wrong, and it's not because you have failed necessarily, but it's because it's something about you has changed, and in essence, the thing that fits before no longer does. And that is the crux of today's owner's room episode. It's the in-between space where the old vision has lost its magnetic pull, and the next one hasn't really made itself known yet. And on that note, I vote, we dig in. So. Question number one, how do you know when a vision has actually run its course versus when you are just tired or discouraged? Goodness gracious. That is a good question. How do you know when a vision has actually run its course versus when you're just tired or discouraged? Hmm. How do I know? You know, I'm not actually sure that there's a clear line here for me. I think that one of the variables in helping me figure out if it's being tired or discouraged versus the vision is just kind of crappy out. Like, you know, the old vision isn't actually the one that we need to keep, uh, creating or going after. One of the variables in all of that is the longevity. It's like the. Stay in power of the tired and discouraged. And so I think it's also life circumstances. So if I was thinking about this, like if this was happening in real time, I am going to be thinking about my current life circumstances. Like I'm gonna be thinking about my sleep schedule, my sleep hygiene, the age of my kids, honestly, whether I have a community of people like social support or not, the volume of activities in my non-working life, the hormonal fluctuations in my life. I mean, I've said before on here that I'm in perimenopause. I, yeah, I am. And. Maybe that's TMI for some of you, but for me, it's fucking relevant because it absolutely influences how I feel about things and my view of the world. Also, progesterone as a lifesaver, as a side note. So I'm gonna be thinking about life circumstances outside of just the vision and all of that is context for figuring out, okay, again, am I just tired or discouraged or is it actually a vision related thing? If there's a fuck ton of things happening in my life, like there's just a lot going on and it's just real, real full, you know, I'm gonna also then ask myself, am I really tired and discouraged in other areas of my life? Is this experience unique to my practice and the vision, or is this experience pretty global for my life at large? You know, if my answer is that things are global for my life at large, I. Honestly, don't trust myself to then decide if the vision is an issue, because it might not be the vision at all. It might just literally be the weight of life is really heavy and you know, I'm in my not quite early, you know, I'm in my late thirties and I have small kids and I have a couple business. Like it could just be the volume and weight and mass, you know, magnitude of everything, period. And so it makes it really hard for me. I would be really interested what other people have to say about this, because I think some people are probably better at distinguishing than I am. But for me, in those moments, it makes it really hard to tease apart if it's vision specific or if it's just global life specific, you know? Well, global life at large. What would the opposite of specific general, there we go. General. If it's really general, I guess it would be global technically, but I already said that, so. Okay. So let's assume though, let's just flip the script a little bit. Let's assume that. My life circumstances are not so intense that I'm feeling tired and discouraged, tired or discouraged anywhere else in life, and it's really just related to the business. If that was the case, I would not immediately assess whether the vision is the right fit, although being unexcited about the vision would be a symptom of something. So I'm thinking of L 10, like an L 10 style meeting, for example. Or you know, we have an annual two day coming up. For those who don't know, we use EOS religiously I would say the entrepreneurial operating system based on the book Traction by Gina Wickman, we use it very consistently, like it's embedded into how we do our business, everything about the business and for years at this point. So what I'm saying is that if I was not feeling excited about the vision, I would put that on our issues list for our L 10 style meetings and slash or it would go on the issues list for like a quarterly full day meeting or an annual two day vision meeting. Because in those meetings we are reviewing our vision slash traction organizer, which is basically the thing that like keeps us oriented towards the vision and moving in the right direction. And when we got there, if Tara has lack of enthusiasm about the vision was on the issues list and we started dissecting it, I think that's where insight would really happen. Because it might be that it's not the vision I'm unenthusiastic about or that I'm discouraged about or that I'm tired with. It's my current role at the practice and the weight of some of the things I'm doing that I don't actually want to be doing or that are taking me away from what I should be doing. Those are the things that I'm really tired and discouraged about, but they're harder to see because I'm like wrapped up in the thick of them. And so by nature of adding Tara's lack of enthusiasm about the vision to the issues list, we're creating opportunity to figure out what's really the root cause of this symptom. You know? So identifying that as an issue doesn't mean that that is the crux of the issue or the core issue. It means that there might be other things. And you know, in a lot of cases there likely are other things that are feeding into this. So if we added it to an issues list and it was actually role related that there was stuff in my role that didn't fit or that I shouldn't be doing. Then the next step is to really clear out my role and realign myself and either, you know, um, assess the roles and look at the responsibilities and get them, you know, sort of fleshed out in a new way sort of reorganize that accountability chart, or no, there is no, or that would actually would be the next step. So let's say that, you know, we've, we are, we're talking about this and the problem is role alignment. Then my next step is this, and then after we figure out, okay, what's the actual role alignment? I would have to wait until I was more aligned with the newer definition of the role before I assessed if I was tired or discouraged about the vision. If, however, let's say, same meeting, same items on the issue list, but I'm in really solid alignment with my role and it's really clean and clear and it makes a lot of sense and it, I'm excited, I'm enthusiastic about it. And then I look at the vision and it's sort of like, mwo my, my powering down if I was a robot or something, that would indicate to me that I was discouraged about the vision. Something about the vision is not working for me. Again, what's really beautiful, I think about Elton style meetings and specifically the issues list section of Elton style meetings or the quarterlies or the two day annual vision planning sessions is that identifying an issue is just the starting point. Like when we talk about an issue. So if the vision was the actual issue and I had just felt like, oh, this is done, like something about this isn't fitting, that becomes the conversation. So part of using EOS, and again, doing these meetings is that your leadership team has to all feel basically enthusiastic about the vision that's decided upon, that's agreed upon. You know, it's not just the visionary saying, we're doing exactly this, fuck you all. It's the visionary saying, I'm thinking this. And like as you're crafting things out or being a little more specific about stuff, you want enthusiasm. You want people to be as excited about it as you might be. So I guess that's a really long-winded answer. I, I guess that, you know, I think I said earlier, like, I'm not sure that I would know, it'd be hard to distinguish and I stand by that. Like if you ask me this question and I was feeling tired or discouraged, including about the vision without going through any of those other processes, like either taking it to leadership or you know, I'm sure grappling with it on my own and talking to my integrator, talking to my husband, like externalizing it, basically being able to like process through and like wrestle with it. I wouldn't have an answer for you. It would just be, I don't know, like, it's just that I feel tired and discouraged and I don't know if it's me or if it's the business or if it's something or the vision, excuse me, or if it's something else related to the business. And that would be it. Like that would literally be my starting point. And then it would be diving in from there to figure out, okay, what is actually going on and what is it that I need to do to get clarity on this issue first and foremost, and then seek to resolve it from there. Boom. So that's my answer. Hopefully it's helpful. I don't, I'm like questioning like, fuck did I come first full circle? I think that I did. I think I came full circle. And let's keep going then, shall we? Question number two, what does it feel like in your body when something you built no longer organizes your energy the way it used to? Oh, that's interesting. My husband and I will talk about like, uh, felt senses of stuff. I am absolutely like, felt sense in my full body, like my, my full body, you know, like I'll, my arms, I'll notice how things live, like my arms feel heavy or I feel like I, you know, restricted. It's like Dwight having to put on a full sleeve, a long sleeve shirt when Charles Minor comes in and it, I don't, it doesn't even matter. Maybe it's season six. Um, it's such a funny episode. Like, he's like, my blood is cut off. You know, it's so funny. Dwight aside. I might also feel things in my gut, you know, I think a lot of us feel stuff in our gut or in my chest. Maybe if my chest feels tied or even in my legs, like my legs might start to feel heavy. Sometimes I'll feel like I'm trudging through drying cement. Like that's kind of the felt sense of like, God, it's so hard to physically move my body around this topic. My husband, on the flip side is like cognitive empathy, like it's, it's all in his head. He's such a fucking cerebral type person, which I mean, no shade at him. I'm just saying that because I'm thinking about if you're listening to this, the way I describe it, versus if you are cerebral or, or more like in your body. What I say is either really gonna resonate or you're gonna be like, I dunno what the fuck this bitch is talking about. That's all I just want, I just wanted to preface my answer with like, I feel things in my body period. You know, and not everybody does. So when I have built something that no longer organizes the energy the way that it used to, what does it feel like in my body? Okay. The feeling I would use, the feeling word I would use is, is dread and no, and I think just dread. Maybe the behavior looks like procrastination, but, but typically like in my body, it feels like drying cement. It feels like my veins are full of tar from land before time when Little Foot's mom died, which as a child always made me cry. Geez, I still can't watch that movie without crying. Fuck. I say that like, I can watch any Disney or Pixar movie without crying. It's not possible. I think they're designed to make you cry, but imagine that tar like seeping through your veins where it's like you're being taken over by something and it just makes everything else physically difficult to do. Or maybe it's almost like also, I mean, that's one way that it, sometimes it shows up. It also just shows up like, it's like my body is just telling me no. I'm thinking of like, you know, you go to try to walk a dog and it's just like, fuck you. I'm not walking. It just lays down, just imagining like a golden retriever on a walk where it's like laying down with its head on its paws and you're like tugging pulling it along and it's just not budging. That's how it feels. I feel like I'm that dog. And then maybe my cognitive part of me is the person on the other end of the leash, you know, trying to pull, like, come on, come on Tara, Tara Golden, come on. And Tara golden retriever is like, nah, I'm good. No thanks. So it just feels like, nope, like almost like, um, done. Nope, not doing that done. So it's funny 'cause in some ways it's like, I don't feel like I have a choice in the matter. Like, uh, I, I do like, I can, you know, force myself to stand up and walk or I can force myself to trudge through cement or I can force myself to physically move even if I feel like I have tar flowing through my system. But I don't like to, because I feel like that's data for me. Like, so instead of continuing to force that thing, I. When those things happen, which they do happen, you know, when they happen, what I end up doing is either kicking it back to leadership and saying, this isn't working for me. Or processing, thinking, grappling, reflecting, emoting, whatever the fuck it is to figure out what about this isn't working. Like something about this is not it. And I don't yet know, but like my own resistance is a sign that something is off. And I think if I bring it all the way back to how I even started this question, talking about like things in my body versus, you know, my husband being more cerebral. I trust what my body is telling me. When I can listen to it and I try hard to listen to it, that doesn't mean that I just do anything that it says, but I trust that if there is some form of like resistance or pushback or something happening to me, it might just mean like something is off around the direction that we're going. It doesn't mean that everything is wrong, you know, burn it to the ground. It just means something's not right about this. And again, if we think back to question one, you know, is it the role? Is it the things that I'm doing? Is it just life circumstances? Like I'm already at capacity, I can't do more. Is it the vision? The answer to that question is, I don't know, but the fact that I have so much internal resistance in my body that is a sign that I need to stop and. Think a little bit more about, okay, we, I need, I need to think, you know, just about what's going on, what the resistance is about, what's coming up for me, all of it, you know? So yeah, I think that question is done. I think that that is ultimately, those are like some of the consistent ways that I'll feel things in my body when there's misalignment. Question three. What parts of your leadership identity were shaped by the old vision and which ones feel constrained by it now? Oh, wow. What parts of your leadership identity were shaped by the old vision and which ones feel constrained by it now? Oh my goodness gracious. That is hard to answer. I feel like I need to invert the question. It needs to be like an inverse type question, almost like instead of saying, what parts of your leadership identity were shaped by the old vision, it would be something like what parts of your old vision were shaped by your leadership identity? That feels more accurate. I don't think it's the other way. I think that the vision was shaped by me. Of course it was. It's sort of like a, does I say it out loud? So if that's the question, then my answer is that it was bigger than what I would've been able to do by myself. It was a little more like frenetic and intense and maybe like urgent, a little bit frantic energy. It was not tended to enough attachment patterns. It was wanting to do everything, which is kind of my MO in life for the record. Like still, it's better. I mean, I'm better. I feel like I always end up circling around the same things, but I really just, you know, I love life. I like the idea of being able to try as many things as I want to and go as many directions and do anything. And all of that was like unchecked though. So if you can imagine that part of me like informing the vision, it was just a much different vision and outcome than like today's version, you know, and I'm talking like, this is old, old vision. So this isn't even like two years ago or last year. We're talking like six or seven years ago, old vision, so not like 20, but you know, like way more towards the origin of the practice and really a few years in probably. It's so funny thinking about that because it's so, so clear to me now when I look back and I see myself where I'm like, oh shit. Like I, I see what happened. You know? It's hard to see it. It's always hard to see it when you're in the thick of it, but when I look back, I can clearly see myself, myself in the influence of what we're doing and what we're building. And there also is something about like, I don't exactly know how to talk about this because I haven't, I don't have enough language for it yet. But there's something about out, like a version of me that's like, let's just say an entertainer of some sort. Like I want to make sure that the people who are here are having fun and engaged and enjoying what's happening. And that part of me was also much louder back then. And so I'm saying that because I. I feel like I was in this position where I didn't fully understand the benefit or like why people might join a group practice. I mean, you know, or people, anybody early on in a group practice ownership, I shouldn't say everybody, but it's really common. I mean, this is like a consistent thing that I hear that beginning level group practice owners will say something like, well, I don't really know why somebody would want to join me. Like, why somebody would wanna be a part of this with me. That also happened for me. It was like, oh yeah, that thing was loud. And so that like uncertainty and like, what am I, what am I doing for them? What am I providing turned into? I need to entertain them while they're here. You know, there's something about that in the mix. And so I hate like, I don't mean to like minimize and say like, yeah, that's just the entertainer part, you know, she blah, blah, blah. 'cause I, I think that there's something about like. Awareness of limitations or not even having enough conceptual, like prowess or understanding of like what are actual limitations of group practice ownership or, um, versus like my own perception of limitations and what people are getting out of it compared to what they're not. And that groundedness can be calming and engaging for people as much as like entertainment. Like there's just so much. So I, I'm not trying to just like minimize and dismiss this, you know, but the expression was like a part of me that needed to entertain to feel like people were going to stay. Something about that is like wrapped up in there. And that's interesting and kind of funny to look back on, not with judgment, like, you know, I'm not like self criticizing or something. It's like, yeah, that's the process I went through and that's part of who I am and all of that. But my point is the juxtaposition of that compared to now. And even like working with practice owners, not work with that many beginner level practice owners because I'm just so much more inclined to like work with established leadership teams or people who are seeking to establish leadership teams and people who are really trying to like hone in on culture. So I don't do much of the beginning level group practice ownership work, but when I have done that, when I have talked with these people and when I do hear them share, it's like I see something consistent across all of us where there's that. Like, why would you work for me? Like why would somebody benefit from this? What? What's the appeal of being here? You know? So again, I don't think it's what parts of my identity were shaped by my old vision. I think it's how did my identity, like what parts of me shaped the vision? And that feels like a very different question. And then the second part to the question is, which ones feel constrained by it? Now, this question might actually be more accurate as it is. So which parts of my leadership identity feel constrained by the vision? I mean, on one hand I'm working on delegating shit, honestly. Like I feel really clear on what needs to go next, and they're like. Big things like big, consistent, mentally and emotionally. They take up a lot of space. You know, there's sort of these like, taxing things that they need to be passed off, and I've absolutely been working on that, like externalizing the processes and sort of the, how they get passed over as much as possible to actually be able to pass them over. So that's on one hand, like I feel like I'm, I'm working on this right now. On the other hand. Hmm. I had a second piece to say which parts of my leadership identity feel constrained by the vision. Now, you know, it's funny because I feel like as I am working to pass these things over, so I think I said on one hand it's like this thing delegating big things. I do feel like I am, uh, in pretty good role alignment at the group, which is nice, but what I'll say is that I want less to do with it. And I don't mean, let me clarify, because I love my group and I adore the people, and I absolutely am not ready or interested to let it go. That's not what I mean. But what I do mean is that I wanna see it function like I want to step away almost entirely and look at it from a distance. That's what I want, and I know that when I do that, what's going to happen is there's going to be things unrelated to the group that come up that I want to spend time on, which already is kind of starting to happen. And so I'm not even sure that it's the vision that necessarily feels like it's constraining parts of my leadership identity. I think there's just something about the space that the group takes up in my world that feels like a constraint on the direction that I'm trying to evolve and develop into as a leader. Because I don't necessarily think that leadership is only in my group. I think that it's generalizable across how I show up in life. Sure, of course. You know, I'm a leader as a parent, I'm a leader, as a consultant, what the fuck ever. But my point is the things that make me better leader are things that also come from other areas of my life. All of the emotional work that I do, all of the shit that I process, the things that I grapple with, the arguments that I have with my partners we're co-parenting. You know, parenting is fucking hard and I don't, I, I don't actually know if co-parenting is the right phrase because we were married, so I'm sorry if that's the wrong language. Let me get back on track. My point is there's a bunch of other insights from life outside of my practice that influence my leadership, my identity as a leader, and also my development. And so I'm finding myself more and more wanting less to do with the practice in order to continue to like distance from it to see it at the level and the distance that I want to. Like I feel like I'm halfway up a canopy and I'm trying to get at the top, you know? Or like I'm on the edge of the Grand Canyon. Instead of like in a plane looking down or a helicopter looking down, I wanna be in that helicopter and that. View is so, so different from being on the edge or walking in a fucking trail through the Grand Canyon. You know, it's like everything is related to this crazy huge gorge, like this giant chasm in the States, and the experience you get from where you're interacting is very, very different. So I feel like ultimately the group, which again is not to say I'm trying to get rid of it or trying to do anything with it, I freaking adore it, the direction it's going, what we're doing, what is being built, et cetera. But it is a constraint. And I'll be totally honest with you, that I think this is probably the first time that it's been clear in that way. To me, I'm a, an external processor, like I have to sort of talk about things out loud and like kind of muddle my way through, you know, and when I do that, I usually find myself coming to some fucking insight, who knows what I like. I, I never know where it's gonna go, you know? So I think that I have emotionally maybe known something like this is happening, but I don't think that I've really languaged or said out loud to myself or maybe to others. The group is a constraint. It is blocking me from developing as a leader, which seems counterintuitive and I think it just is gonna have to seem that way, but it's still true for me, so. Wow, that's interesting to me. That's interesting. I don't know if it's interesting to you or not, but. Okay. I'm gonna keep going. I think I've exhausted that question. Not that I feel exhausted by it. Feel invigorated. Let's keep going. Question number four. What stories do you tell yourself about leaders who don't have a clear vision at the ready? Oh, I don't think I tell myself any stories about leaders. I don't like to make up shit about other people. I don't fucking know. I don't know what you're going through. I don't know what's on your mind. There's no story. There's nothing about like, oh, well, they're not prepared. They don't have a vision. They don't know what they're doing. It's, it's not anything like that. What always ends up happening for me is that I am curious, like you don't have a vision. Okay, cool. What was your last vision? Have you ever had one? What do you know about vision? Well, how do you decide where to go? What direction do you row in and how do you know everyone's going in the same direction? And like, I feel like I just end up having all of these questions as a result of finding something out that seems like it'd be like, oh, they don't have a vision. Like, I don't, I don't fucking care. It's not my business, first of all. Second of all, literally, and kind of figuratively, you know? Second of all, I don't have any context. So it's not about even, there's no story, there's no judgment. It's, I just feel interested, like, I'm just curious and interested in how this person operates. Well, how do you run your business without a, without a vision? Excuse me. How do you, um, exist? How does your team know what to do, et cetera? If I was working with this person, then I would be judging, no, I'm just kidding. I wouldn't be, but I would emphasize like that would be something we did together. Was establishing a clear vision. Yes, because it is. I mean, fucking important. Like, it's important to have a vision so that everyone knows the direction that they're rowing. And if somebody doesn't have a vision, I don't have any sort of judgment or story about it. Like, I'm, I'm curious, I want to know more. And that's pretty much it, you know? Oh, you know what, but if somebody said that they had a vision, but then nobody followed it, so they just gave up on it, I would feel, Hmm. Not judgy, I wouldn't feel judgy. I wouldn't feel critical. I would feel what Tara. Hmm. That's actually a moment where I would wanna double down and be like, well, hang on, hang on, hang on. Like you, we need a vision. Like you established one before and nobody followed it, and so you gave up on it. That doesn't mean that a vision isn't effective and doesn't work. It might mean the way it was introduced was rough, or that it wasn't clear to everybody, or that you have the entire wrong team. Or you know, it could mean any number of things. But the reality is like we still need a vision. We still need to know where we're going and what we're doing, and I would argue why we're doing it and why we're going there. But again, no like judgment about it. No criticism, no story. There is no story. Scratch that. There's no story that I tell about it. I wanna hear the story from the person who's living it. That's, that's probably the more accurate way of saying that. I don't have a story. You have the story, but I want to hear it from you. That's, that's really what it is. Okay. Let's keep going. Question five. How does your relationship to certainty change as you mature as a leader? That is interesting. So here's what's interesting to me anyway. I never feel certain that's not true. Hang on, hang on. Let me think about this. What are the things that I feel certain about? I feel certain in moments where there's context and nuance and in that moment something is being decided or solidified or clarified, I feel confident in those moments. But that to me is not the same thing as certainty for good. It's certainty For this thing right now, it's like any given Sunday, you know the saying, like on any given Sunday, any team can win. I do not like that movie. As a side note, way too fucking violent for me. I'm sensitive. Y'all like. I can't do Gory Game of Thrones. Hell no. Hell no. I can't even watch CSI. I'm like, why do you have to reenact these scenes so vividly? Nobody needs to see this. I can watch elementary though, and I freaking love Sherlock Holmes and Joan Watson, Dr. Joan Watson, I love Lucy Lu in that show. Their dynamic is just my freaking favorite. So anyway, my point is, any given Sunday, not gonna watch the movie, but it could always change. Like right now it's this because of the nuance and the context and the conversation and the information that we have. We're certain right now about this. However, if it's tomorrow and now we're getting more information. That then informs the thing that we just decided or agreed upon or thought was true. Okay, well, boom, this thing is now shifted and now we feel certain based on the information we have, that this is the decision outcome process. You know, whatever it might be. I, But what I don't think is true for me is that it's changed over time. I think that what has changed, let me back up by me saying I don't think it's true that my relationship to certainty has changed over time. What I mean to say is that I always operate like that. Like anything could always change, which is why I would be a horrible cop or a horrible, like it's black and white, like military. I couldn't do it. I just, I'm like, well, what's the context? Well, how do we know? You know, but I've, I've sort of always operated that way. Like context or nuance or information might change, whatever the thing is that I think or feel or see in front of me, you know? So that hasn't changed. But I think what has changed is my comfort with that. I think before by, before, I don't even know what the marker is for before, you know, like before td, before Tara developed, I don't, I don't know, like early on in my group practice ownership and maybe honestly before I really had a leader, a strong leadership team, I think that that is a huge pivotal point in my leadership, my ownership development, my visionary development. So I think before my strong leadership team really took effect and we really started implementing EOS and using it actively, you know. I would've said I was fickle or like wishy-washy or just, I don't think I would've said, not confident, but I would have felt unsure about this thing. I think I did feel unsure, like, well, good leaders are really decisive and they like set something and stick with it, but I don't believe that anymore. I do think, sure, good leaders are decisive, but I also think that good leaders take any information and inform whatever decision it is that they're making and then know and trust and feel okay with additional information might change what they're deciding right now. And there's no sense of like, well, I'm gonna let people down, or they're gonna be mad, or it's gonna feel like this. It just is what it is. Like this is, this is what it means to be in leadership. That you have access to data, you have access to people, you have access to a variety of people's emotional responses. You have access to context and nuance, and you have leadership informed conversations and you know, you have so much at the ready that you trust what you're doing right now. And you know that well, tomorrow if something were to change, like this thing might change too. So again, I don't really think that my relationship to certainty has changed as I've matured as a leader, well, I guess I could say it has. It's sort of like, yes, no, like no, it hasn't changed in terms of how I engage with certainty, but yes, it has changed in terms of my acceptance of how I engage with certainty as a leader. So it does sort of feel like this. Yes and no, or no, and yes. I like that question. That's really interesting. It also makes me curious about how other people think about certainty as a leader. I think that I view very few things as static or fixed. Death is always on that list of things that are fixed. Some expenses, obviously if we're getting real practical, but the business like, ah, no, I don't know. I just, I think that's what. Having a living practice. You know, if I ever, if you ever hear me talk about the living practice framework or the sense of this living practice, that's what I mean, like it's always pulsing, it always is emitting data and absorbing data. Like it's, there's something about like this organism is alive and every single point of interaction and connection and interdependence and intersection of the stuff that makes it up then informs it and vice versa. It's kinda like breast milk, you know? It's like if you are breastfeeding, you are producing something that is. Unique to the child that you are feeding and by them latching on your body is absorbing information from them and then adjusting the milk that it's producing. So this idea of like, well, I'm just gonna set something and leave it 'cause I'm a decisive leader and I'm, that's the final decision and that's it. I feel like you are now cutting off the ability to actually evolve something, including yourself, but also evolve something that might make your practice better over time because of a need for exact certainty right now. And maybe like an unwillingness or an inability to really accept the fact that what certain now isn't going to be tomorrow might not be tomorrow. You know? As a total side note, breast milk is incredible. Like the relationship between a child and the production, uh, it's just even in utero, like having a child in utero and the impact that it has on a, on a person carrying a child they're forever changed by this, you know, biologically, neurologically. And then also this child is obviously immediately impacted by who they're connected to. I'm totally digressing, but it's just incredible to me to think like, that is such a profound system, you know, it's, it's literally like a living system right there. And I'll stop myself from going further, even though I really want to. Let's do our final question. Question six, sixth and final. Fifth and final has a better ring. But you know, here we are. Sixth and final. What feels harder right now? Ooh. Letting go of the old vision or trusting that a new one will form. Hmm. What feels harder right now? Letting go of the old vision or trusting that a new one will form? Oh God, that's a good question. What does feel harder right now? Neither of those things feel harder. What feels harder to me related to visioning and sort of being in between, like here's an older vision, here's a newer one, where we're going, what consistently feels like the most difficult thing is how the team is going to respond. That's what feels hard to me. I don't want them to feel some sort of intense whiplash. I don't want them to feel confused. I don't want them to feel uncertain or like we are not following through on what we say, where they start to lose confidence in us as a leadership team. So it feels less about letting go of a vision or trusting a new one. Forming, which both are hard to do for the record, but the hardest part feels like, how's my team gonna feel about this? Like, how are they going to be? That's what's hard for me. It's so cheesy, but I mean, they are, they matter. They matter to me. Like it matters to me how they feel about what we do and what's decided and the direction we're going. And I'm not under the impression, and I don't ever think that every person's gonna stay forever, like they're gonna be here forever. You know? I know that people will leave. I, you know, I, I know this and I know that the clearer that we get on vision, even as we're changing course, you know, if we are. Making an adjustment. We're going five degrees west instead of, you know, uh, whatever five degrees from west is, we're going like either more west, you know? Um, I know that it's gonna jive with some people and it's not with others, and it's gonna pull some new people in and it's gonna clear out some other candidates. And I know all of this, and as comfortable as I might be with things changing and sort of like following how I'm feeling and responding to what's coming up in real time and making adjustments, I don't like when that negatively impacts people around me, period. And especially people around me that I care about. So therein is the hardest part. Like that is the hardest part for me. And I mean, real talk. We're kind of in this process. You know, we've got our annual two day coming up next week, which at the time of you listening to this, it will be later 'cause this won't come out right away, but you know, a couple weeks after or something. So we have our annual two day coming up, and I'm sure we always revisit the vision. You know, we look at it and then ensure like, are we on track and what do we think and how does it feel? And I am really, really interested in what it's gonna be like this time around, given the number of. Things that I've let go of in the past three months, like legit in the past three months since sort of shifting into winter and like densifying from there and you know, getting a lot of clarity and then pruning a bunch of fucking shit. Like, oh my God, I'm not, this doesn't fit me anymore. Like, I'm not doing this anymore. You know, all of that. Like I am really excited about the two day coming up And I have no idea where it's gonna go either. You know, it's like part of the excitement is I'm stepping into this feeling more clear headed and we're not creating anything from scratch. You know, we have been using EOS so we have a clear vision in place. But like we get to assess it and we get to look at it and we get to assess ourselves over the past year. And that's, uh, what I'm excited about. I'm excited to see how this changes and what this looks like moving forward. Boom. I think that's it for questions. No more. None more. None more questions. We're gonna move on. We're gonna do one scenario. I'm gonna read through this and I'm just gonna talk out loud about if I was this person or if I was working with this person. Where do my thoughts go? A practice owner realizes she no longer feels animated by the goals she worked years to achieve. Goodness. The practice is stable, respected, and functioning well, that's nice. But when she looks at the future plans, she once felt proud of, there's no pull. Her team still references the old vision in meetings and she nods along unsure how to explain that something has shifted without sounding ungrateful or dramatic. She worries that questioning the vision means questioning her competence as a leader. Part of her wonders if this is burnout, while another part feels oddly calm, like something is settling rather than collapsing. She hasn't named any of this out loud yet. She is still showing up, still leading, but internally, the organizing principle that once guided her decisions has quietly dissolved. You know what I immediately thought of was inside out when ri in the first one, when they're moving, you know, and joy and sadness are sucked up that tube and wherever they are and then they start to watch all of her internal structures collapse. That's what this makes me think of. The quietly dissolving piece is like all of these internal structures are just crumbling, you know, beneath you. So what do I think, I have a couple of thoughts about this aside from the Inside Out reference. I also love that movie. Gosh, I love it so much. I, you know, my first thought is if she's in meetings with people. And let's say these are leadership team meetings, like she's not having full team meetings and everyone's, you know, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talking about the vision and she's just over there nodding. If she is in meetings with her leadership team and she's not really voicing what's happening for her, even if there's no outcome yet, I don't like that. And, and I'm not saying that, you know, some people keep things really close to their chest and I think that my just natural tendency is not that. So there are some things like if I'm in process about something I might not share right away, especially depending on like the level of raw that I feel about it. So if I'm like deeply in process and it's some like deep internal work, I'm probably not gonna share that right away. Either it feels really sacred to me or I just, I'm in the thick of it. It feels more like therapeutic fodder, you know, rather than something I wanna externally process. But this doesn't seem like that. Like if I'm reading the scenario, she's kinda wondering if it's burnout, but she also feels calm about it. Like there's a sense of settling rather than collapsing. So I'm not getting this really intense emotionality about it in terms of, um, it's really raw for her, you know? And I think because of that, my thought is why don't you just talk to your leadership team? Like, why don't you just tell them. Hey, I don't really feel pulled to our vision in the way that I have. I feel calm about it. I'm trying to assess if it's burnout. I don't know what this means, but nothing needs to change right now. But I want you all to know where I'm at and kind of what's happening internally for me. And then that's it. Like it's not like she needs something from her leadership team and it doesn't seem like she needs them to emotionally regulate, which I wouldn't encourage anyway. She's still showing up. She's still leading. But the goals and the future plans just aren't guiding her in the way that they used to. Why would I pull my leadership team in? Well, I mean be, I think that on one hand they're just so much a part of everything. Like they're a part of everything related to the practice. They run the day to day, you know, they are the day to day my leadership team is. I also feel like I am beholden to them if that is the right language. I feel a sense of responsibility. For them, but also like to them, not that I owe them something, you know, not anything like that, but like I do feel a sense of, I owe you honesty. Like I owe you transparency. You are in this with me, and so therefore I will show up as fully as possible, as much as possible. You know? And that feels like the fair thing to do because these people, my leadership team are, I mean, ideally they're invested in this as much as I am. And so if I am saying I'm not sure about what we're doing, and I don't know where it's gonna go yet, but I think it's gonna shift. A, I feel like they'll end up being part of the discussion for what vision looks like in the future, and B, they're a part of what is, so it only feels right to me that they know that something might change and that who knows when. You know? If I read this again or just one of the lines, it's that she worries that questioning the vision means questioning her competence as a leader. If I'm just going from the scenario and there's not, I don't know any other information, like it's just this, that is the sticking point where it's like, oh, okay, so. Basically you are afraid that if I tell people that I'm questioning the vision, even if it's just my leadership team, that I'm gonna look incompetent or I'm gonna lose my competence cred, you know, my street cred with competence maybe, but also who the fuck goes through life and doesn't change their mind as they're going, like who is dead set on something and then sticks with it as they go through it the entire way. Like, I don't know who does that. I can't imagine living a life where the first thing I decided, or like the goals I set weren't able to be. Edited or amended or tweaked or changed, or they weren't allowed to evolve with me and with my leadership team. It's the same thing as we talked about above, or as I was talking about above, is like if I, let's say I have these goals in mind and we start to work towards them as we're going. What we're doing along the way is we are collecting information, data nuance, context. We're collecting so much more as we're going that by the time we're a quarter of the way there, halfway there, three quarters of the way there, it sort of doesn't matter. Uh, just anywhere along this line, you know, this developmental trajectory towards our vision, we now have more information. And with that information, our vision and the goals might need to change based on what we now know that we did not know when we started. So it's weird to me to think, uh, maybe weird sounds judgy. I think I don't relate to it. Like that's what I mean by weird is like, it's hard for me to relate to the sense of questioning competence or being afraid of questioning competence because of having an emotional change, like a, a sort of felt cinch change about the goals and the vision. So I guess if I was working with that person, that would be the starting point that that hangup piece, that sense of competence and vision, you know, because basically what is it about leadership that has you conflating competence with certainty? That's what this says to me, is that. Competence is certainty, sort of if we flip this on its head, of course it doesn't say that directly, but again, my stance is sort of the opposite. Like why is certainty, competence? And if certainty is competence, that's pretty fucking rigid. Honestly, that's not something that's gonna sway with the wind, like something that's gonna break and crack and then fall over. And also again, like the, okay, so the practice is stable, respected, and functioning well. If that's also the case, let's say there is a high level of emotional health, so strong practice culture, cool. Even more reason to fucking tell your leadership team like, Hey y'all, I don't think I'm burned out. I think I feel calm about this, but the vision isn't doing it for me anymore. Like I'm not as pulled to the vision as I was when we said it. I don't know where it's going yet, but I just wanna level with you all. I wanna be honest, this is where I am right now and I'm more than happy to continue this conversation either now or at our next full day. Or as more information is coming up for me and I'm getting more insight, I'm absolutely gonna continue sharing with you all. Boom. That's it. It seems so easy, right? Maybe simple. It seems so simple, doesn't it? Simple. Not easy. It would also be interesting if the person did that and as they open the conversation, they realize the leadership team is also feeling a little bit of a similar, similar ways. In similar ways. There's this, that there's also some sort of like, maybe not reticence, but like less excitement about the vision as there was when they said it. I think too, what I will say one more thing and then I think I'm gonna wrap it up entirely. I think that the visionary. Maybe I should say this, one of the perks of being the visionary, I think one of the on average traits and then I think this is a blessing and also of course it's curse. So it's all of those things. Now we're getting there. One of the typical traits, a blessing and a curse of being a visionary is this thing that's happening for her. So there are moments in time where I know like this is not, something's not working here before anybody else on my team has any idea. It's sort of fine for them. They're like, yeah, this is fine. And I'm like, no, it's not like this is not this, isn't it? This isn't clean, this isn't crisp. This is gonna get messy. It's gonna break. Like whatever it is I know in advance of the rest of my team knowing and maybe they like know. Well, that'd be nice if it was clean. Or cleaner, but they don't feel the intensity of shit's gonna go to hell in hand basket and being a little extreme, they don't feel it in the same way that I do. I think again, that's a trait, blessing and curse of being a visionary. And so also if we, you know, take what I'm saying and place it onto the scenario, then we've got a person who might just be ahead of the curve if she's the visionary at the practice. So it's as a practice owner, but let's say visionary. 'cause y'all know I love EOS, she's a visionary at the practice. She's not keyed in with goals anymore. They don't feel magnetic anymore, they're not pulling her in. Maybe that's actually an indication that they need to be revisited and that they are not in the right direction and the rest of the leadership team might actually feel similar. Once y'all open this conversation and start having it. Which to me, of course, is just all the more reason to actively and openly engage with your leadership team about things like this. So I think that is all we have for today, my friends in my robot voice. Okay. What do I, what do I have for you? I think I have two things to say. I have a thousand things to say, but let's stick with two. First and foremost, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. That's the thing, make sure you subscribe. You'll get notifications for any new episodes to drop. You will be able to more easily find and listen to previous episodes. The second thing is to share this with somebody who needs to hear it. Because what is the point of talking about all of this if it isn't resonating with the right people? I say that like I wouldn't be talking about it anyway, but still I want it to hit people that need to hear it. I want it to be useful and functional and validating and relatable. I want it to be meaningful for people who need to hear it, who are in this state in their life, in this mindset, in their life. So that's the second thing. Share with somebody who you think might need to hear it. And that actually does it for today. Always ask for usual. Thank you for spending time with me. I really, really value time and so it means a lot that you spend some with me. And that said, I will catch you on the next episode. See ya.